 Okay, you are live. All right, let's do it. Hello everyone and good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending on the time zone you're in. I assume we have people from multiple time zones already and more people will be joining over the next few minutes. My name is Tanveer, I organize some of the Hyperledge Meetups in California and also help out on the virtual Meetups that we do. A lot of our Meetups are virtual since speakers are all over the world and it's worked out very well. But we do plan to have a few in-person Meetups as well both in the Bay Area and in Los Angeles. And so please stay tuned for announcements that will be happening in the future. Very excited about having Ravi join us for today's event. He's the founder and co-founder and CEO of Zeev. They are a leading blockchain infrastructure service platform. Ravi has been in the blockchain space for many years now. In fact, he's one of the key people or one of the people who played a key role in me getting very excited about the blockchain space. So really excited about hosting him. Before I have him start his presentation, just a couple of announcements. Many of you who are regular, who regularly attend the Hyperledger events, may already know this, but for those who don't, you can go to the Hyperledger website. David Boswell from Hyperledger has dropped a couple of links. The second link here, the second link in the chats will give you a snapshot of all the upcoming events that are virtual in the Bay Area. On July 13th, which is a Thursday, we have an in-person Meetup that will be hosted at House of Web3, Edge and Node, and it's going to be a really cool topic why Hyperledger and Ethereum go together like peanut butter and jelly. I also want to take this opportunity to share that I'm doing a virtual meetup on a virtual fireside chat on June 28th. I'm hosting the co-founder and CEO of a tokenization platform called Storbox. The topic is Debustifying Security Token Offerings and I'll put a link in the chat for anyone's interested. Please do join us. It's going to be a great fireside chat. We've also lined up some other speakers as well. So we have a voodafone joining us in August, August 9th. We'll be officially announcing that but there's already a placeholder on the website. And we also have a speaker from FedEx will be joining us subsequently talking about how global brands are leveraging Web3 and the metaverse to drive digital transformation. So we'll have a whole series of talks on that. So with that, I want to bring it back to Ravi. Ravi's talk today is Building and Scaling Real Enterprise Consortiums on Hyperledger Fabric. Ravi, really excited about having you join us. If you can kindly go ahead and share your screen and look forward to your talk today. Sure. Yeah, we can see your screen, Ravi. You're on now. Yeah, hi everyone. My name is Ravi. I'm the co-founder, CEO of Z. And today we'll talk about Enterprise Consortiums especially using Hyperledger Fabric. So just to give a brief about my blockchain journey got into blockchain in 2016. Started a journey with Hyperledger Fabric and Sawtooth. Fabric was at 0.6 at that point of time. And so worked in the enterprise space, built quite a few products and solutions especially in the fintech area, financial services, digital record management, supply chain, et cetera. And then we saw that there is a huge challenge in managing the blockchain infrastructure. So that's where we thought of creating a product, a SaaS product called a no-code platform which will enable the infrastructure. That's how Z was born three years back. And since then, you know, we have been working with quite a few enterprises, consortiums and different web-free startups to manage blockchain infrastructure. So today in the presentation, we'll be covering a bit primer about, you know, blockchain platforms and what are the consortiums? What are the benefits of forming a consortium? What are the challenges? How to take care of those challenges? And then, you know, from a technologically perspective out of different set of challenges, targeting some of the technology related challenges that will enable to design or scale an enterprise consortium. So just a very brief about assuming that all the people who have joined today are quite well-versed with the basics of blockchain. So there are different kinds of blockchains. There are public blockchains like Ethereum, Polygon, Avalanche, et cetera, which are completely permissionless. Anybody can join the network. Anybody can become a staker or a miner and can write transactions to the blockchain. And all the transactions are pretty much visible across different explorers to anyone who want to see. Vis-a-vis that in the enterprise space, we do require permission blockchains. Permission blockchains are the chains which has got access controls, permissions. So who all can participate in the consensus? Who all can see what kind of data? So these are required when we talk about enterprise consortiums where, you know, data privacy, data security, et cetera, becomes a huge of huge importance. So that's where permission blockchains comes in. And then there are a few use cases where, you know, hybrid blockchains make more sense where there may be access controls in terms of who is writing to the ledger, but then the data access is, you know, pretty much available to everyone. For example, intellectual property kind of use case where the whole process of creating a registry may be permission, but then anyone would be able to query or see the data. And similarly, there are various other use cases that are evolving here. So first, you know, what are blockchain consortium? So it's, as we have realized that when enterprises started looking at blockchain, that how this technology can, you know, bring in efficiency or transparency or trust within the different parties who are doing business with each other. Most of the use cases that were realized after, you know, the initial phase of 2017 to 19 when a lot of POCs and pilots were done, we realized that most of the use cases are industry led use cases where multiple organizations would come together and try to solve an industry challenge or a larger challenge using blockchain technology. So that's where the whole concept of consortium comes in. So consortium means that, you know, multiple organizations can come together and they can work in a common single network. And the primary goal of forming such a network is that there may be industry led challenges. For example, we have worked with few consortiums in the insurance space. So there are quite a few industry driven problems in the insurance where lack of transparency or data sharing among the different industry participants lead to a lot of misuse or abuse in the system. So that's where, you know, if the industry players can come together and they can co-opt to form a consortium, so then they can weed out, you know, they can share data with proper access controls, et cetera. So that is typically a primary goal of forming a blockchain consortium. And of course, the advantage is not just to one single participant, but all the participants of a consortium can benefit out of forming a consortium. One of the study by Deloitte clearly shows that 74% of organizations who are participating in a blockchain consortium with competitors or would like to join one. So there's a major thrust on blockchain consortiums. And what we have seen is that either blockchain consortium is formed by one of the player within the industry or there are quite a few blockchain consortium which are led by a third party startup. And then, you know, the startup bringing together different industry players solving a specific problem. And based on the kind of problems they are solving, you know, some of the blockchain consortiums are use case focused, like, you know, whether it be supply chain track and trace, whether it be solving challenges in the trade finance space or remittances, et cetera. So different banks coming together, different supply chain intermediaries and players coming together. So different kind of use cases are, you know, governed using a consortium kind of structure. And then, you know, we have industry focused use cases, like, you know, we have seed consortiums in banking space, in insurance space where industry players come together to take an example, like for example, in the insurance, one of the challenges that whenever, in auto insurance, whenever a renewal happens, then in that case, since the data is not there, it's very difficult to know about any claim that has been taken in the first year. So these kind of data, and similarly in the lending space, we do have credit bureau, but the time it takes for the data to come from the lending organization to the bureau, and then being used by other lending organization, there's still a huge gap. So these are some of the industry related issues that can be easily solved using a blockchain consortium. And then there are geography focused. It may be a government initiative. There are quite a few use cases, like, you know, identity within a country, CBDC is another use case that we have seen. So there are quite a few use cases where multiple players will come together, like in the case of CBDC central bank and other banks, you know, coming together. And it may be initially, most of them are geographically restricted, but then later on it may open up to other geographies also. So different features of blockchain consortium. So that is where complexity comes in. As we know, it's very difficult for one organization to work with another organization. One, at the organization level, if you see there are quite a few challenges to implement a new technology. And when we talk about various industry players coming together, and at times, and most of the times, in fact, they may be competitors. So competitors coming together or other industry players coming together with different systems, different objectives, different way of working, different, you know, processes and workflows, how to bring them together. So that's why it's very important to know what constitute a consortium blockchain and what all different areas which are there. So for example, there needs to be proper rules and regulations, what we call corporate governance or consortium governance, where how different parties are coming together, who can do what, defining proper access controls, rights and duties, and designing a proper governance structure. And then, you know, there needs to be clear guidelines about the data privacy, that how data is going to be stored, how data is going to be accessed, who has access to what kind of data and what amount of data. So that becomes very important. And then there are issues related to transaction throughput, depending on the use case, what kind of transaction throughput is required, and accordingly, the consortium blockchain should be able to support it. And then, you know, we have scalability as to how the blockchain consortiums can scale. The very reason of forming consortiums are to derive common value out of different industry players. So if you see a different set of participants, one is consortium agreement, then second is a participant agreement. So if you see consortium agreement, there's always a promoter. Now, as I mentioned, it may be an industry player, it may be a third-party technology player, or it may be a third-party startup. Who is the promoter of the consortium? And then, you know, there may be some initial founding members or initial members who joined the consortium, and then, you know, there would be other members who joined the consortiums. And depending on how the consortium has been structured, the initial members and the rest of the participating members may have different access controls or may have same access controls, depending on what is the purpose of the consortium. And there needs to be clearly a clear governance board defining governance and encoding those governance as part of the smart contract, so that any ratification, any changes to the governance again is driven by the smart contracts. And then, you know, there are operating rules, how the consortium is going to be organized, can be operationalized, maintained, scaled, et cetera. So those are some of the decisions that again needs to be on-chain driven. Mostly the data should be encoded in smart contracts so that industry players who are coming together, they feel comfortable with it. We have seen that, you know, a lot of consortium have faced challenges where some of the small to mid-sized players in the consortium may feel insecure from the large players in the consortium. So this difference in the size of the organization or objectives or vision of different organizations make it's very important that a clear governance is defined and most of the governance activities or governance rules should be encoded in smart contract and very much visible and transparent to everyone. And then, you know, there's a consortium manager who takes care of all the consortium operations. And then, you know, different other parties may be a technology vendor, a consulting organization who is helping craft out the whole nitty gritties of forming a consortium. We are seeing consortium across different sector, financial services, of course, is the largest one. I would say the touch bearer when initially, you know, different consortium form, they were formed by different banks coming together, other financial institutions. And today with the tokenization happening in last couple of years, there's a lot of thrust on tokenization of real-world assets and tokenization of digital assets. And there again, we are seeing a lot of organizations are coming together through interoperability or through consortium approach, where again, financial services, telecom, media, energy and utility, these are some of the important sectors which are picking up. So what are the important steps to form a consortium? So one is first is building a consortium, that, you know, what kind of consortium needs to be there, whether it's solving a use case related problem or industry related problems. And then, you know, different construct of the consortium. And then, you know, determining who the members of the consortium would be, different organizations. And apart from organizations who are directly being part of the consortium, the rest of the other members who are going to play some role on the other within the consortium. And then, you know, defining the consensus mechanism, different policies, governance rules, technology stack. I've got a detailed diagram as to different steps of defining it. And then, you know, approach like, you know, starting with an MVP or a POC or MVP approach and then scaling it over a period of time. And then, you know, onboarding different industry players to continue to join the consortium. Data and compliances, again, form very important steps to apart from consensus mechanism while forming a consortium as to what kind of compliances and regulatory framework that needs to be there to, especially when we talk about, let's say, tokenization of real world assets. Once you have tokenized assets, who all can transit in those tokenized assets? So ensuring a proper decentralized identity which is combined with the real world identity. And then based on that, putting restrictions on how the tokens can be traded, who can buy, who can sell and so on and so forth. So similarly, depending on what the use case is, which is underlying the consortium, that becomes important to take care of all the regulatory and compliances. So now, coming to Hyperledger Fabric. So Hyperledger Fabric has been, I think the biggest platform today where most of the consortium have been formed and not just in financial services, but we have seen in supply chain and in financial services, trade, finance, et cetera. So there are quite a few industries where Hyperledger Fabric has been the choice to build up consortium blockchains. And the reasons are very clear, one Hyperledger has been posted under Linux Foundation and there's a thought of philosophy of openness. All the code is open. There is a huge community support. A lot of pieces have been built around the core components. There is Hyperledger Labs, which continue to add more and more projects. And there are projects like Hyperledger Beisu, which connect with Ethereum. So there are a lot of innovative frameworks and different products, plugins and components within the Hyperledger suite of products that enable building a consortium easy. And there's a proper system of defining the access controls. You can define, you can write governance contracts. And then since it's a permission blockchain, of course the performance is typically not an issue. The consensus is being controlled by limited set of players. So of course the transaction throughput can be a bit high. And then there is a chain code functionality which enables smart contracts. So any kind of business logic can be written, not just defining the governance contract, but apart from that on the application side, all the different kind of logic, business logic can be built using the smart contracts. Now, coming to the core of that, a lot of blockchain based systems, including consortium have been designed in the last six, seven years. And a lot of challenges have been seen. That's why some of the initiatives fail after six months or one year. But then over a period of time now, I think there's a much more disciplined, much more wisdom in terms of what are the established use cases of blockchain. It's not that technology can be fit into any kind of scenario. So there are established use case, there are established ways of doing things. And these are some of the challenges when we design a blockchain consortium and plan to scale it. So first, I think one of the major challenges are in the organization side where there needs to be a clear buy-in from the management because many times quite a few use cases are transformational. They require a lot of changes in the existing workflows. And there may be an additional cost component to it. A unit economics may not be that favorable for some of the use cases. So of course it requires a lot of trust from the management so that a technology penetration can happen. So more disruptive, the technology or the use cases for a specific process within the organization, a larger buy-in is definitely required. And then governance, I think I cannot stress enough because quite a few consortium have failed just because of improper governance structure or implementation of network governance. And then the problem comes in once the initial consortium has been formed, some initial players have been formed. Bringing in other stakeholders to join the consortium I think is quite challenging. And then of course, there has been lack of know-how talent especially on the blockchain architect side who can design solid solutions who have got solid experience or expertise in building solutions. And then of course regulations and compliances again is a quite a big organizational challenge. In fact, since most of the jurisdictions today do not have a proper regulatory framework that's why a lot of use cases or initiatives organizations normally take a backseat but that is thankfully changing now in last two, three years we are seeing quite a few jurisdictions are coming up with different regulations related to digital assets. And especially if you talk about blockchain where a utility token is not involved or a token which has been used to raise funds etc., it's not involved. Then there are a lot of government departments lot of central banks etc., are trying out and building various use cases on blockchain. The second set of challenges are more on the economic side. One of the most important aspect when we define governance is not just the rights and access to the network but what kind of incentive is there for each stakeholder. Now incentive can be a monetary, non-monetary but the whole idea is that is the incentive enough to cover the objectives of a participant when he wants to join the network and this becomes very important and this is one of the challenging piece which requires a lot of know how to architect a system so that there's a clear incentive for each stakeholder or network participant. And then of course the overall cost economics need to be assessed so that unit economics makes sense. The overall implementation of blockchain or forming a consortium is the value which is being derived is more than the cost being used. And then quantifying how the one time build up cost and then the cost of running the blockchain over a period of time is always the value that is going to be realized over a period of time. Since blockchain is more of a infrastructure technology it basically is revolutionizing how data is being managed how data is being shared across different players. So one of the consortium that we have worked with with few industry players is trade finance and in trade finance today what happens is almost 30 to 35% of cost of trade finance any international trade transaction is just because of documentation. And there's a huge repetition of the same document being shared again and again rectified, verified, validated again and again and there's a huge cost it adds and it adds to the time as well as the cost to the trade finance transaction. So these all cost again there are a lot of tangible and intangible cost that again needs to be assessed when we are seeing the benefit of using blockchain. And then we have a lot of technological challenges. So one, blockchain is still maturing. So there are a lot of developments which are happening newer versions come up newer blockchain protocols are coming in. So there are quite a few protocols. And then as use cases are getting matured different people are resorting to complex networks and in complex networks the needs may be even much more than what the technology can support today. So maturity is definitely one of the challenge and there are a lot of newer protocols which are solving it. And then like Fabric or Basu they have been launching newer versions. So all different blockchain protocols they are achieving some kind of maturity over a period of time. And then performance again becomes a challenge when if the use case demands a huge throughput and the kind of blockchain that has been used to form the consortium is not supporting that kind of transaction throughput. So that again is a very important challenge from a technology standpoint. And then interoperability is in fact one of the critical aspect because as we see there are a lot of consortium being formed by five industry players like five banks come together and for a specific use case they form a consortium. So we'll increasingly we are seeing a lot many of these kinds of consortiums are being formed and what eventually will happen is that these consortium need to share data with each other. So until unless either they form a larger consortium where the complexity of creating, designing and managing a consortium is even more complex. So I think we are going to see these smaller, smaller consortiums and then interoperability needs to be very strong so that data can be shared among these different consortiums or different networks. And then security and compliance is again adhering to the different cloud policies, various technology compliances within an organization. And just imagine in a consortium like structure where if let's say one of the industry players is the foundational members or some of the industry players are the initial members how to onboard a new stakeholder and the new stakeholder may have a different cloud preference. They want to deploy within their own cloud environment, et cetera and still want to join the network. So how to manage this kind of complexity again becomes very important from security, compliances and ease of use the user experience. And then maintaining the overall maintaining of the technology infrastructure have the scalability at the protocol level at the deployment architecture level and at the application level. So ensuring scalability across the entire technology stack becomes very important. And then legacy integrations because there are a lot of legacy tools and legacy systems which are running in different enterprises and any blockchain based system end of the day should be licensing with different legacy platforms because whenever we design a blockchain based system in enterprises there would be a huge amount of data that still would be off-chain and there would be some amount of data that needs to be on-chain. So while designing deciding what data should be on-chain off-chain becomes very important and how the on-chain data is being pulled in how it is validated. So it is coming from the proper source. And then if whatever data is off-chain if you are pushing some of the transaction hash of that off-chain data onto into the blockchain ledger. So these are some of the decisions that becomes very important. And as we provide more and more legacy integrations the overall implementation exercise becomes very easier. And then choice of deployment as I mentioned different enterprises within the same industry may be using different cloud environments maybe public clouds, private clouds, on-premise bare metal or virtual machine. So depending on different kind of deployment choices should be there even for the same network. So within the same network there should be choice with different players as to what kind of infrastructure they would like to use to deploy and manage the nodes. So these were the challenges that we see in designing and unscaling the blockchain consortium. This is a diagram which shows starting from use case evaluation framework to operations and then how to ensure the success of a consortium. So there when we talk about scaling then memberships how to bring in different stakeholders. And as I mentioned bringing a stakeholder there are business set of challenges and there are a lot of technology challenges in onboarding a new stakeholder. How to make it so seamless. So there are cutting down manual processes of issuing licenses and the whole onboarding process needs to be made much much smoother. And then of course realizing the value proposition of the consortium vis-a-vis the cost that is going to be incurred and how that cost is going to be funded and how the cost economics will work for all the consortium participants. Leadership who is driving the whole consortium and what are the different roles? What are the different incentives for each participant? Especially people who are driving the consortium. It's very important that there is a clear incentive structure which is incentivizing based on how much the third one is putting into the consortiums. And then last but not the least is the governance piece becomes very important. So talking about technology challenges per se that is where what is required and how we at Zeef have tried to solve it. So one simple way is to manually manage everything you can there are documentation, there are no house based on which manual networks can be set up but manually setting up a network has got its own set of challenges. One it takes a huge amount of time and then huge amount of expertise is required. If in-house expertise is not there new resources need to be trained because the quite a few processes and DevOps practices and compliances, et cetera are quite different when we talk about a decentralized network. And then apart from that there may be issues related to error or scalability, how to manage them that also becomes very important. And as we discussed that the blockchain technology is maturing, so the upgrades and updates that happen on the protocol level they are quite frequent. So that again needs to be ensured that the network is completely updated all the security patches, updates, upgrades everything is being done without disrupting the data, the ledger data or different processes within the consortium. And then second is the whole deployment option piece as different players will have different needs, different comfort levels, different engagements that they have. So there should be a support for different kind of cloud environments. So any kind of cloud can be used, on-premise deployments can be used within the same network. We do require a proper orchestration deployment strategy, deployment architecture, so it is cost optimized still provides high performance and high availability. So this again is very important especially when we are working on a larger consortium where multiple industry players are coming together. And then your scalability should be there keeping in the changing demand or the changing number of transactions that may happen within the consortium or the ledger and also keeping in mind that the cost is optimized at all levels. And then very sophisticated analytics and monitoring dashboard so that the kind of comfort that we see in web two systems today, the same kind of comfort is required when we use a decentralized ledger technology or a distributed network. So proper proactive alerts, 24-7 monitoring and so on so forth is required. Security of course, that is one of the biggest area of focus of any CIO CTO who is implementing a blockchain based consortium from a technology standpoint. So securities is needed at the infrastructure level, at the application level, at the network level and especially when we talk about consortium different players coming together how these access controls can be designed, implemented and continue to be checked as per the security policies of the organization. And then stakeholder onboarding, as I mentioned becomes very complex process. Most of the consortiums today are having the whole stakeholder onboarding process completely manual, which takes a lot of time to add new stakeholders into the system. And sometimes, if we try to solve it very easily like the foundational member or the initial set of members are running the whole infrastructure then it tends to centralize the overall infrastructure. So in the ideal scenario, each stakeholder, each external organization who is joining the consortium should be able to manage their own role and join the network and have access to complete ledger, et cetera. So that way we continue to increase decentralization and as more decentralization happens of course it leads to better security and more trust and transparency among the network participants. So this is what Zeef platform, we have created a no code automation platform that solves all these technology challenges while implementing a blockchain consortium. So some of the features, as I mentioned stakeholder onboarding we have made it very simplistic so that it's like simply sending SMS or email in white and the stakeholder can simply click on it and then can set up their own node in a completely no code automation workflow. And then they can still join the main network with all access controls, et cetera, like do it. And the central monitoring dashboard allows to see the whole network topology. You can see each the different nodes in the network which node is hosted where what kind of cloud they are using or what kind of deployment option they are using the health of the node, the analytics of each node on a single dashboard. So that enables a lot of control among the different participants like decentralizing the control but still at the same time the visibility on the network is can be done using a single dashboard. So it helps a lot massively to scale the consortium adding more and more stakeholders because typically when happens is it takes some time to get few industry players, test out the use case validated and then establish the value proposition. And then people want to bring in more and more industry players want to scale it to 100 players or 200 players. There of course automation helps a lot. And as I mentioned, we provide proactive 24 seven monitoring and analytics and alerts and notification both through a web interface as well as mobile app. And then we have a concept of self-healing nodes where most of the issues are managed by the system itself. System identifies, get the alert and based on the issue identification the system solves it itself. It's only when the system is not able to solve based on the self-healing concept then only an alert is sent to the DevOps team to take care of the issue. So this is, I wanted to cover from a slight perspective now I see there are quite a few questions on the chat. So let me take up some questions. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead Ravi. Sorry, I found one, but you can go first. So one question is how many, what are the companies that work with Hyperledger? So I think, so there are quite a few organizations who are working with Hyperledger. In fact, you can go to the Hyperledger website and you can find the list of all the members and apart from that all the people who have been building on Hyperledger there are case studies, there are different projects and then of course you can always do Google search. There are a lot of consulting companies. There are a lot of system integrators, there are a lot of enterprises and a lot of startups who are building blockchain as a service platforms using Hyperledger suite of products. So yeah, so there are and I think Europe is one of the hot seat for companies that are working with Hyperledger. In fact, the last Hyperledger forum happened in Ireland. Ravi, there's one interesting question here. Is there any formalized reference model that can be referred during a consortium formation? Yeah, so there are, so like we are working with Government Blockchain Association, GBA. GBA has created a maturity framework which there are a certain set of criteria based on which you can see how mature your blockchain framework is. Not just the underlying protocol but the overall consortium structure that you have designed, how mature it is. So it's a very good framework and apart from that there are a few other frameworks that are there in the market you can use to see the overall architecture that you have designed is following all the best practices or all the known best practices. Great Ravi. Another one is regarding ROI. When quantifying ROI, what are the factors should one consider? Okay, so yes, as I mentioned, first is the assessment to the cost. All the tangible and tangible cost that needs to be assessed to identify what kind of ROI can be realized. So there is a cost attached to, there would be disruptions in the existing workflow. So what kind of changes need to be done in the existing processes or workflows? Then there is a cost of designing the consortium. There's a technology cost of running the consortium and then there's a lot of operational costs apart from non-tech operational costs which is involved. So one is taking care of all the cost. The second is I think the cost piece is comparatively simpler. It is the return piece which is very difficult to ascertain because in some of the use cases quite a amount of value that you derived may be intangible. So like if you're cutting down and that can be realized over a period of time, very difficult to realize in a short period of time, how bringing efficiency in data sharing, for example, or record management. Like for example, we were working with an enterprise and FMCG where they are spending almost $8 million just in dispute resolution. And most of these disputes are based on because two different parties are not able to agree on a certain data point. And there's a duplication of data entries. For example, let's say goods are delivered to an ex warehouse. Now at what time the good delivered and what time... So there needs to be a common stem to ascertain that yes, there's a common source of truth to determine that what actually happened on the ground. So these are some of the smaller, smaller challenges across the workflow process and then leads to a huge amount of disputes that happen. So very important to work out all the different value that is going to be derived then I think ascertaining ROI becomes very easy. We had in fact, in one of the GBA webinars, our CTO had done a webinar of cost of doing blockchain. So if you connect with me, I can share the deck that we had used that will give you a fair idea as to the different cost components and some objective calculations also are given there. Excellent. Ravi, there's another question specific to what you guys do. So the question is, are you a deployment company working with Hyperledger? I'll let you address that. No, so we don't work with Hyperledger. Like work in the sense there's no business engagement. We are one of the members of Hyperledger Foundation and we support Hyperledger products suite on our platform. So R is the blockchain infrastructure as a service platform that it's like the AWS or Heroku of blockchain where we provide all the dashboard workflows where you can deploy nodes and networks. You can maintain their analytics, monitoring. There are different value-added services like decentralized governance, decentralized storage and various other value like key management and so on and so forth. And we support the Hyperledger that breaks out to Hyperledger, Vesu, Indy and continue to add more and more products. In fact, Ravi, we'd love to bring you back for an event in the future and do one or two other topics. I wanted to switch gears a little bit here. You've been engaged with some amazing enterprise customers. So just want to get your thoughts, a two-fold question. How is the industry at large for blockchain adoption? How is that happening at the enterprise? What are some of the headwinds you're experiencing? And also if we can touch base on like our enterprise is missing out on anything, right? And I'll use a small example. Many years ago, the whole focus in the security world was outside of threat, outside of threat, outside of threat. And a lot of them overlooked the risk of insider attacks, right? And then it took a couple of huge high-profile issues, right? One had a very big European bank and then people woke up to like the enterprise woke up to, okay, we need to also address insider threat. So in the blockchain world, I wanted to see that our enterprises, are they doing anything wrong where they may be missing out? So I was hoping you can take a couple of minutes and address these three-part question. So one, I think from a traction perspective, the overall adoption that we saw in the initial years, like I would say till 2020, was very slow. One, only a few organizations tested out blockchain tech and since technology was new and there were a lot of business challenges in implementing blockchain. So the overall rate at which the POCs or pilots moved to production was very less. And I think post-2020, what we are seeing is one, there's a lot of discipline. There are a lot of serious conversations now because the use cases are pretty much established. There's a larger workforce, a lot of architects, a lot of consultants who have got expertise and experience and have known what are the challenges and how to circumvent or solve them. And second, I think tokenization has given a new trust to overall blockchain adoption because tokenization is pretty much touching upon every industry. And so it's where the public protocol and the permission protocol, they're coming together and enterprises are realizing that there are quite a few low-hanging use cases that can be used as initially. And a lot of blockchain as a service players have come up in the last two and a half years and that makes it easy for enterprises to try out this technology in production because rather than getting into a whole capex intensive trying out blockchain, they can actually join one of the existing consortium led by a startup or they can use blockchain as a service kind of platform which has got all the basic tenants of the application use case being framed out. So a lot of blockchain as a service players in trade finance and supply chain, track and trace, there are quite a few players are coming which are helping in the adoption. So I think technology is still comparatively new. Still, there's a lot to navigate in terms of actual implementations. But yes, there are a lot. The ecosystem, as I would say, has matured quite a bit. A lot of necessary ecosystem components are in place now. That is enabling more and more enterprises to now try out different blockchain use cases. I appreciate that. One other question came up at the bottom of the chat, Ravi. This is a little wordy. Do you think you can handle, you can take that one as well? Yeah, so I was just reading that. Yeah, so Jeff, I think to quite an extent what you have mentioned is definitely right. Not all configurations can be managed, but I definitely would love to invite you to, you know, schedule a demo with us. We'll show you the, how we have done quite a few complex configurations in a no code manner. But yes, still I would say you are absolutely right. Not 100% of the configurations can be managed or done in a no code manner. But what we have realized is that, you know, when you are designing a blockchain based system, you know, a hyper ledger based system, then you may try out different configurations. So just imagine that if you're doing it manually, you are put in some kind of configuration, set up the network, and then you kill the network, want to make some changes to the core, changes to the core configurations. Then, you know, it takes a huge amount of time to run through this exercise. One of our customer using hyper ledger on one of the cloud, they are using us solely for this purpose because they are in a process of fine tuning their configurations. So it becomes easy to spin off a network, kill the network and then re-spin off it. So I think from that perspective, you know, the no code approach is very helpful. Second, we have tried to bring in a lot of, like for example, channels. So we have brought in a lot of channel related configurations, which nobody has done in the market within the no code approach. So since we are a distinct difference between us and the DevOps organization is that we started our journey, we spent almost four or five years building hundreds of different solutions in the blockchain space. So we understand the underlying protocol very well, the kind of challenges as a developer we have faced. So we have tried to solve all those configuration challenges, which are becomes very important, especially becomes very important for, or very tough for DevOps engineers to implement. Excellent. A couple more questions have come in Ravi, so you can keep the momentum. That's great. We still have a few minutes. I think the next one is does fabric support different consensus mechanisms? Yeah. So there is a core consensus mechanism, but yes, the consensus is pluggable. So you can plug other consensus protocols also. So from a technology standpoint, there's not a limitation, but yeah, by default there's BFT, but then there are other consensus mechanism that you can try. Another one, Ravi. For the average business customer, they can use to be of misunderstanding and maybe even all emphasis about the relationship of blockchain with Bitcoin and Ethereum. Can you address how you can make a distinction on this with your customers? Yeah. So that's a classic challenge. I remember, especially in 17, 18, it was a huge challenge. I used to have a meeting with 15, 20 people in the room, and the conversation, half of the conversation was always centered towards Bitcoin. But yeah, we have come a long way from that. Now at least we understand the technology and Bitcoin as one of the use cases of technology, especially on the payment side. But I think another area, which is even a bigger misunderstanding is a token-based use case and use cases where token may not be required. And especially when we talk about there's a native token, which is important for architecting a use case. Vis-a-vis a token which is being used to capture the value of the network. And then using that token to raise funds, et cetera. So I think the regulatory issues which are there today in terms of not proper regulations are there in most of the countries. The challenges where utility tokens are being used to raise funds and then there's a challenge in understanding whether it's actually a utility token or a security token and so on and so forth. But if you talk about you are using token, let's say, in the tokenized asset use cases. You're tokenizing commodity or some other real estate or other kind of assets. And you're using this tokenized asset, that is not a problem. That is not a problem from a regulation or compliance standpoint. It's a pure... Like the way we have been using loyalty points. So we have been using wallets like PTM. So it's pretty much tokenized in a digital format. What blockchain gives is a tokenization where you can have an absolute ownership of the token. And then there is a clear immutable audit trail of all the transactions of that token. So it helps to define clear ownership, et cetera. So blockchain technology per se gives a lot of benefits as compared to the way we have been managing it in the web-to-space. Sounds great. Ravi, a couple more questions. One is, in a consortium use case spread across different geographies, how do you take care of failover challenges? Yeah, so if you're talking about failover in terms of pure the infrastructure, then from an infrastructure standpoint, it actually doesn't matter if the platform is across different geographies. In fact, there are a few consortiums where nodes are being run across different geographies. There are industry participants across different geographies. And we try the node to be hosted very near to where the consortium partner is or most of the users are for managing latency, et cetera. So again, geography per se doesn't matter from a failover perspective. Like whether all the nodes are running within one country or multiple countries because most of the underlying clouds that are being used are global in nature. They have data centers, like if you talk about AWS or Google Cloud, they have data centers spread across different geographies. Great. Is it possible to set up Hyperledger in a way so onboarding a new member without the total agreement between Hyperledger Fabric components? So Hyperledger Fabric is completely open source. So you can take the code. You can start implementing Hyperledger base solution. So you do not need to be a foundation member to use Hyperledger suite of products if that is what you're trying to ask. Okay. So another way of understanding this question is that he is saying that, so that onboarding a new member without the total agreement between the Hyperledger Fabric components. Thank you. I'm not very clear about the question, but as I mentioned, the governance rules defines whenever a new participant wants to join it. Like one of the process that we have implemented is where the existing members are going to sign on chain to issue an invitation to a new stakeholder and also sign off on the different access controls, rights and permissions to the new stakeholder. There's one on data. Are you collecting data to test the hypothesis that the consortium solution will actually prevent any tragedy of the commons? So where is that data stored and under what license? So as it's the underlying is blockchain based network. So of course, data is stored on each and every node that is part of the network. And then these nodes are residing. So I think to answer this in detail, so data is completely distributed across different nodes, different stakeholders. If each stakeholder just assuming that each stakeholder is running a node by themselves, then everybody has got the exact copy of the ledger and all the data is stored there. But now let's say, if you design a system using Hyperledger and using channels, so you can have these private subnets and they can allow you further privacy of data. So it's not about the licensing of the data. The data belongs to the network to the consortium and the consortium participants, they will decide who has access to what kind of data and who owns the data per se. Excellent. And Ravi, I wanted to give you an opportunity. If you have any events coming up, I know you do master classes, et cetera. Is that already listed on the Z website if people want to attend any of your master classes? Yeah, absolutely. So we have events and news section on our platform which lists all the past events as well as upcoming events. And for all the past events, all the webinar, the Twitter spaces, all the presentations that are added in our YouTube channel are different podcasts. And then you can also subscribe to even newsletter which monthly newsletter tells about all the upcoming events in that month. Excellent. So Ravi, we are coming to the end of the hour. I want to thank you again. I know it's a late hour. It's what almost 11 p.m. now in India. So thank you so much for joining us today for your, if this is a great session, really appreciate it. And thank you for patiently answering all the questions. Like I mentioned in the future, we'd love for you or a gun, your CTO to come back, you know, for another event with hyper ledger in the future. Thanks then we thanks David for organizing this and thanks everyone who attended the webinar today. If you still have any questions, do feel free to connect with me over LinkedIn or Twitter. And I would be more than happy to answer your questions. Yeah, definitely. Thanks for your time. All right everyone to take care and thanks for joining us. Best wishes. We'll be in touch for a week. I'll think you later. Thanks. Hey David, I'm not sure if we should I just call you? Is that better if I just called you? Just was like I'm ending the stream.