 My glass of water while the webinar has started. Oh, now there are two attendees, but I don't think I can let them in. And they aren't they aren't us anyway. So we need some more trust numbers to show up. Hello, attendees that are here. Risha is here. We need to reach the end. Yeah, Risha's here. OK, Nate, we'll be right back and let you in. Risha, though he made us co-hosts. I wonder if we can let Risha in. Carol, co-host, now how do I let Risha in? Let me see if I can let Risha in. Oh, here. Let's see, promote to panelists. I'm going to do that and see if it happens. Oh, Paul's here. OK, well, that didn't work. Oh, it did work. Risha, good work. All right, brought to panelists. Oh, Rob is here. All right, promote to panelists. All right, Rob should be joining us. Oh, this is fun. I can't find how to do it. You're doing great. Yeah, if you go the arrow next to their names, it says allow to talk or more. And when you hit more, you can promote them to panelists. Oh, there it is. Yep, I see it. OK. So we'll wait a few more minutes. There are not enough of us. Oh, women, I think we're five. Yep, we're five. We want to wait for Nate to come back. Hi, Rob. Hi, Paul. Hi, Risha. Hello. OK, Allegra's here. All right, promote to panelists. All right, so we have six. I will stand in one place in a second. I just felt an urgent need to have an ice cream someday. So. Oh, OK. It's that kind of weather, huh? Eat one for me. Hi, Allegra. Hi, Nate. Hey, everyone. Yeah, so I just know I phoned somewhere else where we can't hear. I can't figure out how to end it. I've promoted people to panelists. Oh, no three. There are seven attendees. Yep. And can you tell me when you'd like for me to start? I think it's already recording. So I think that after actually said, she doesn't have the link, which is surprising to me. OK, so we wait for Ashley then. We also need to have a note taker. So I don't know. I don't know if anyone can put the hand up in the attendees to see if it would be a note taker. If not, I can try to take notes at the same time. Allegra did it once. It's pretty it's it would be great if somebody besides Erica or I could do it. It's kind of hard to try to do all of this and take notes. I didn't know it's Rob. Yay, I saw Rob's and go up. Thank you so much. And Allegra was just going to say something, but thank you already done it once before. So thank you, Rob. So just let me know when you want me to start. Did we get Allegra? We have Allegra. No, no, I'm Ashley. Yep, I'm not seeing her yet. No, I'm not seeing her. I sent her I just sent her a new link again. OK, she should be here shortly then. OK, we just also just to let people know, one of our Jennifer Taub, one of our liaisons with the town council is in attendance also, just so people know. So is Shalini. Yay, Ashley is there, Ashley. All right, we will go ahead and start. Fantastic, OK. Thank you very much for joining us for this evening's Amherst Municipal Affordable Housing Trust meeting. It's April 13, 2023. It is 7 0 6 and we are calling everyone to order. The first item of our agenda is review of the March minutes. So first, I want to thank Rob for agreeing to take the minutes for this evening. But if we can open to see if there are any corrections for the March minutes or any additions, emissions. So I will just wait for a few minutes to see if anybody has any. I'm just going to look through hearing new one raising any concerns, emissions or errors. We will accept the March minutes as is. So we wanted to start before we opened up for the different items on the agenda. We just wanted to go over a few things. It's been the practice of the trust and by public comment as people raise their hands as long as time permits. We may stop this practice anytime if it seems that we won't be able to complete the agenda. But what we ask just for both the note takers as well as for the trust members as well as for the participants, if you could please when you're recognized and asked to go ahead and speak, if you can just state what your name is in your address before speaking, and that will really help all of us. So we may remind you again, so please don't be offended if we do. That will allow all of us to know who's speaking. We also wanted to remind all of the trust members that it is absolutely wonderful that we share information. So we will often share articles, data, et cetera, through emails, but one of the things that we just want to underscore is to please don't expect us to comment because none of us should comment. If people want to raise whatever is being shared for a trust agenda item, please just like Carol and myself know, we are under the rule of open meeting law. So we are not allowed to deliberate and deliberate includes any comments such as great data, wonderful news, or this is very disturbing. So please no reply all, the best is never to reply all. If you have any comments or concerns, you can send Carol and myself a message or an eight and or just ask that we put the item on the next agenda and then we can discuss it. So just as a reminder, I've actually seen meetings, town meetings being totally coming to a halt because there's been a complaint about open meeting law violations. So just a reminder. So the next item, well, let me just say, are there any questions or concerns? Bring them on. It's hard to see everybody, so I'm sorry if I, okay. All right, great, thank you. Just if you're also, I think we all have gotten the materials from the open meeting law, but I believe we actually have a document from KP law, which is Amherst's legal counsel. And if anyone wants us to share any of that, we can share that as well. But on mass.gov, there's a whole, the document, the guide, frequently asked questions. And I can tell you, I am very familiar with it because I've been trying to find an answer to a particular question. And we can actually email directly and if anyone wants the email address, you can email directly since we're part of a town and they actually have designated people who will respond, but not always in a very comprehensive or understandable language, but they will respond. So if you want that, just let me know and I'll share it with you. So our next item is reporting on the joint listening session on housing with our Community Safety and Social Justice Committee, Human Rights Commission and the Board of Health. And we also have Jennifer Moisten who has joined us, Phillip Avila, Elizabeth Haygood, Nancy Gilbert, Ashley Jensen from The Trust and Allegra Clark from The Trust who also represents the CSSJC. So I will start. So just so you know, the three of us, Allegra, myself and Ashley, we have committed to being part of the planning meeting. I do not join if both Ashley and Allegra there and if one of them cannot make it and I step in just because we have not yet gotten an answer if three people from The Trust can be on the planning committee. So just to be cautious, there's only two people who are part of the planning committee and I'm the alternate. So let me just give you a little summary and if Ashley and Allegra, you wanna step in, if I miss anything, please just step in. So we have come up with the date. The first date is gonna be in-person meeting and that is going to be June 20th and that's a Tuesday and it's going to be from 6.30 to 8.30 at the bank center and that is a public forum where we have committed ourselves to inviting as many town committees as well as organizations to come and listen and the focus is really to listen to individuals who have wanted to come and live in Amherst but have been challenged by either getting affordable rental property or housing or houses or who live here in Amherst and are really burdened by the cost of living here and having to make a decision possibly of leaving. And so we just really think it's very, very important for us to spend the evening listening to those experiences. We're gonna follow that three weeks later with affordable housing resource fair and that is going to be on July 18th and that's going to be from 6.30 to 8.30 also an in-person meeting and that's also gonna be at the bank center. So we are working to ensure inclusivity and we actually might also be doing many sort of outreach listening sessions with groups that we feel might not have the ability to come and so we really wanna welcome everybody to also participate and we'll have more information. So I will open up for Allegra and Ashley if there's anything that I missed. Well, I just, I was just thinking I don't, I never got an actual link to this meeting and so I took it off the website under the calendar and I think I took the wrong link. Could someone please send an email to Maggie to make sure she has the right link and then also just in case Kathy Shane wanted to come to the meeting, she's expressed some interest. Could you send the right link to her? I don't have it. Nate, can you do that? Wherever you are or I can go do it but I thought maybe Nate could do it. He's not, he's gone or something. I can do it, I'm on it. Okay, thank you. Ashley, did you have anything you wanted to add about the listening session? No. You said website and that made me think we should put the listening session information on our website. But also, I guess, I don't know if I'm supposed to be official and have written something or not but I was going to put forward a request to the committee for some financial support for the listening session. So what we had come up with in terms of increasing inclusivity and perhaps reaching out to communities that aren't always at our meetings or might not be able to attend our meetings because they're in English and people might not speak English as their first language. I did reach out to the UMass translation center to get a quote for some translation services and in our small committee, we talked about Portuguese, Spanish and Mandarin as being three languages that are relatively prevalent in the community. So the cost of in-person translation for three languages with two interpreters so that they can simultaneously be translating through earpieces comes up to about $2,250. So that would be a request for funds from the trust to cover that expense. And we also talked about wanting snacks because snacks get people to meetings. So I don't know what the budget for snacks would be but I don't know if putting forward like 3,000 for the total event would give us enough cushion. And I guess the question would then be for the follow-up session if we can't at least provide translation services for that event if there would be a way to get materials from the places and have those at least translated into other languages perhaps if it's more of a fair where you're kind of like going around from a table to a table it would that would probably make it different. I'm difficult for translation services. I've had so perhaps more to come on that piece I suppose but that was our hope that we could get some funding to have translation services available so more people would be able to access the listening session at the very least. So do I have to do something official? So it seems like we have a motion put forth by you Allegra to see if the trust members would support funding of minimally $3,000 to support the public forum for the first session. And it looks like there's a hand that is up. Risha. Yeah, that's me. So thank you. I just had a question on how translation works if people don't need it. So is it as welcoming and as accommodating for people if they would have to let us know in advance that they needed a certain language? I just, that's a lot of different languages and what are the odds that all of them are needed? Is there a protocol in the town for the best practices on that? What we had discussed at the last meeting was that we would translate the invitation materials into different languages. And I believe Liz was going to reach out to the high school because they often translate their materials into the most spoken languages here. And so it doesn't account for someone who may not have high literacy. I mean, you always wanna have materials at a certain level but if somebody is not literate they're not gonna be reading this but they might be a family member. So we hope that possibly they, that would be the question is would they feel comfortable asking for that as an accommodation for the day versus just having people available? I think between the planning group there were gonna be at least three people who felt that they could interpret it for Spanish. I can interpret for Nepali and we were hoping Sid who's not there could possibly interpret for Cape Verdean but that doesn't include some of the languages that Allegra mentioned. So I think, you're right, what is the best practice? We're gonna translate the invitations into different languages. We're gonna ask for people to let us know if they need someone to interpret for them. I think we should have somebody who does ASL there. I don't think we even need to ask for that but it's up to the group what we think the best practice is and you asked what the town's policy was but Allegra, you were gonna respond. I was just gonna say I think part of what we had talked about too and I think I've seen Jennifer Moisten do this on some of the events that they put on through DEI is like on the flyer that goes out have a, if you need childcare, if you need transport, well translation services, then email this email Jen and so then we would at least have an understanding of, okay, well, a hundred people have responded, 10 of them say they need Spanish speaking interpretation, none of them need the other two. So maybe we don't go forward with all the interpretation but and then I guess in terms of, I don't know if you were asking but I can answer it. I think the interpretation would be simultaneous so that the person would be translating out as it's happening and it would be going into earphones rather than kind of you say something they translate it that way. So if you don't have the air set and you're not gonna hear Mandarin or Portuguese or whatever. No, and I just to end that with I support doing it if it's needed. I would hate to pay the money and there's nobody who needs that language. And so just trying to figure out a way to come your solution if that works for everyone seems good to me if we can offer it if people ask for it. Nate. Yeah, I mean, sorry. So you're talking about the in-person meeting, right? So typically we'd want so many days in advance where we'd receive notice. So if we already know the date or dates of the fair or we're just talking about the June 20th meeting then we could say, we would need so many days in advance by a certain date, let us know if you need those services because then we could arrange it. And if we don't hear, then we don't use it. It is at the bank center. And I guess I'd want to ask IT also what kind of the capability is there if there needs to be any audio or any equipment. But typically we would say like within so many days or 10 days prior to the event, but this is pretty far out. So depending on how we get the flyers out, we could say with 14 days before that, whatever we think, we will need some lead time possibly to get the services. So I think we have what we're giving ourselves some good lead time. I just want to make sure we have it that way. So if we get requests, we can manage it and we're not scrambling two days before. Paul. I think I might miss this. Is it a hybrid meeting or in person or which? In person. Okay, that makes it easier. Thank you. Another non translation question is just to note that both of those dates are after the schools get out. So for me, that means I can't attend either of them. I don't know if that's going to be an obstacle for other residents who are here mostly during the school year. The dates were one of our biggest challenges. And so the original date was May 9th and that didn't work because it was too soon. We have tried almost, I think we went through the calendar but Ashley and Allegra, you can certainly correct me but we really did try as much as possible. And yes, we did realize that it might be, doing the 21st might already be too late with regards to families who are here. But it's not going to be the last. It won't be, I think this is a continuous conversation that we want to have with the community. I don't have a solution. We don't have a solution to this. We had thought also, it was suggested that we also have a virtual date and do it one virtually. And we had thought about that as well but it's just planning takes a lot of time. So this is noted, thank you, Risa. But we did try our best. When does school actually get out for kids? So it is likely that the previous Friday, sorry, one of my calendar open is the last day of school given the snow days we've had. And then Monday is Juneteenth and then there was going to be one if we had enough snow days, but I don't think there will be. So I think, let me just see, was it another hand up? Just make sure. Nate, do you still wanna say something? Well, yeah, I mean, they originally projected last day was around the 21st, 22nd that may be different, but I mean, it's not too late after the school year. I feel like, I guess they were trying to accommodate like four boards and committees and there's, but I mean, I guess it is a consideration for the trust, is there a way to make sure we're not missing people because of that? Is there a way to have it be a week earlier or is that that date really? Well, here's something that we had thought about as well, which Nate, you said you could help us with, which is that we wanted to also have an email and we have three questions. And for the three questions we thought possibly we could start sending out advertisement as soon as possible and ask people to respond to those questions via email, they could come and speak, they could respond via email or they can do both. But there might be people who can't make it at all but want to include their opinion. So maybe it's something that that's where we can reach people who might be leaving beforehand or not available, but we all need an email address. We can set up an email and then, we can set up a comment form on the town's website so we can also have a survey, essentially a survey or some other form that could be completed through the town's website or engage AMR. So there's, yeah, I think if we want to do that we can do that in the next week or get that going. I think that's a, and we can maintain that as well just for any event, yeah. Great, okay. So we're gonna follow up with you on that and get that going. Paul, I think your hand's back up. Yes, so just a couple of things. One is the last day of school, the way I understand it is Friday, June 16th. If for any reason there is an extension misstates of school for any reason that Monday is a holiday then they would go to the 20th, 21st, et cetera. So school could be in session, but unlikely at this point but you never know. And then I think the comment form is the right way to do it because that captures everybody's comments and it goes into a database and that database can be updated and shared out as needed versus trying to track emails and stuff like that, that can be messy, so. And also just sympathy to people trying to schedule meetings, you know, Angela Mills and tries a million meetings, especially when you're trying to get boards together who are trying to get quorums together, whatever. I mean, I just have total sympathy for whatever you guys put into it, I support it. Thank you, Paul, thank you. Okay, so I'm not seeing any more hands up, great conversation and lots of great suggestions. So the proposal of the ask or the motion is would the trust be willing to minimally provide $3,000 based on the fact that we are going to put into the announcements asking people to let us know if they need an interpreter or any other accommodation for that matter. And based on that, we would only spend the monies if we needed to, to approve minimally a $3,000 budget for this. Thank you, Rob. I was gonna ask a question. Go ahead, Rob, I thought you were saying, yes, let's move forward. Okay, go ahead, Rob. No, you were characterizing it as minimally 3,000 but Allegra implied maximally 3,000 or up to 3,000. Well, I just wanna be clear about which one it is. Well, because there are two events I said minimally but I do believe, I think Allegra did say 3,000. I did. And so I suppose on the table is 3,000 and if we have to return for more then we return for more. And I would agree that we would probably know by before the event how much demand there is and then we might know that the demand might be there for the second event. So 3,000 and Carol has her hand up. I may have just answered that minimally didn't seem like a thing that I wanted to approve but up to $3,000, yes. All right, the motion is up to $3,000. I think it's totally fine. I just also wanna include probably it's not extra because it's just an ID person. It's a person that is doing the survey and ideally as soon as possible so that we know what the survey people on the website have said before we go to our June 20th thing and then we compare that with what they say in person. So I think Nick will help us collate that information or somebody from the town will help collate that information. Okay, so the motion is $3,000 to support the event based on the need of whoever wants to attend. So I think that's the motion. Okay, Risa and Alisha, Ashley, Alisha, Ashley have, sorry about that, first has said yes and there's a second, Ashley seconded. Yeah, I was just saying yes. Yeah, and Carol, you have your hand up again. Yeah, I think that because this is a motion about money that you should actually go around and ask each person and get the votes like, Rob, how do you vote? Ashley, how do you, just so we really know what has happened and it can get into the minutes easily. Okay, Carol, do you wanna start with yourself? Yes, I vote yes. Thank you, I vote yes. Rob, goes. Allegra. Yes. Ashley. Yes. Paul. I'm gonna abstain and but also it is right, Carol, that any vote has to be taken by roll call when you're meeting virtually like this. Oh, okay. It's important to do that, yeah. So, but my vote is to abstain. Thank you, Paul. Risha. Yes. I think I have gotten everybody. All right, so we have a majority, yes. So we'll go ahead. Okay. I think we can move to the next item on the agenda. That's you, Carol. Yes, it is. So I think that if no one objects, there are two things on here. One is the proposal that I wanna make to allow the chairs to do things between meetings. And the other thing is the new draft about the town housing planner or coordinator position that Nate and Dave but just Nate is gonna present. And I would like to flip those because I wanna make sure that there's time to talk about whatever we have to talk about, about the job description which Nate sent out earlier today. So if no one objects, in fact, and let someone does object, I'm just gonna do it. Let's talk first about this job description which we now have in front of us and now has act has actual, it has numbers, it has a job summary, it will cost the trust. That exactly isn't quite here. Do you know how it's just, Nate, can you tell us something about how much this translates into this salary range? The town I think has $100,000 of CPA money and so what is it that the trust would have to spend to make this happen? Sure, there is a hand raised in the audience but yeah, so quickly, the town has 100,000 for three years of CPA funding and then Rita had been on her contract for roughly 20,000 with the trust and she isn't anymore. So we had thought that buying those funding could allow for a little more competitive process when selecting, it's really a town employee now. So the way we were hiring Rita could no longer be done as a consultant, it really is a town employee. And over 20 hours is benefited, can be at a pro-rated amount up until full time. And so as we discussed, there's this other fringe percentage fringe benefits and other things that we don't really see like the hidden cost of a position and it can range depending on health care choices and other things that an employee might make. And so given the hiring range, the salary range up to 25 hours a week, the trust we were hoping Dave and I had said 25,000 a year. So that's 55,000 and then that can support a position given that pay range and up to 25 hours a week. And so it really then depends on what kind of choices the employee makes in terms of benefit choices. So they could elect not to do any benefits and then it's a little different but there's an assumption that they take benefits. And so it's really hard to, we have no other town funding or other funding for this position. So it's not as if, for instance, my position, we get funded and it's through operation and operational budget and my salary and other benefits are covered. Here, every funding that we vote is for both the salary for benefits, for everything that goes into that position. So if $30 an hour is equals 40,000 a year and we have to do 40% of that could be for other benefits, we have to take 40% and add that on. So it's really 56,000 is what the cost of that position is. So all this funding has to cover that. So I get that it's a range and that the range fluctuates and that we don't really know what it is gonna be. But I still would like to have a number. Apparently the town has $100,000. The town, I presume can't spend more than that. Is that true? And if that's true, what does that mean? That the trust just pays however much is more than that and can we have an estimate for what that is for the three years? It can be a range of an estimate, but what is it? We're saying it's $25,000 a year for three years. Okay. $25,000. $75,000. You could go up to $30,000 if you want, but really it's $25,000 I think would be, you can just do it year by year. You could do $25,000 a year for three years. Okay, thank you. So the trust is being asked for this position that we're looking at here to put up $75,000 over three years. Right. Okay, thank you very much. And so we have one, I think there's one attendee who wants to say something, but also first are there trust members who have comments, questions, thoughts looking at this document that we have in front of us? I can share the screen if that's easier for people or not and there's a lot of text on it. Do you want, do you want to see it on the screen? I mean, what do people want to see it on the screen? I want to vote. Okay, go ahead, Nate. I'm sure that's not very visible. Yeah, if you'll make it a little bigger, that'd be great. So everything in yellow, I think I emailed was what's new. So we just added a description up top with the hourly range, a little bit more about how it's balancing priorities of town and the trust and trust priorities. I mean, the job description in terms of major duties, there's a lot of them here, right? So there's 14 and so really it captures anything. There's a few communities I've looked at like associate planner positions or housing planners. And so these tasks right here align with what's been asked of for similar positions, say in the last six months in different communities across the state. So some people might say, well, I don't see something very specific in terms of say a specific task, but I feel like these are generic enough that it lends itself to researching things, coming to trust meetings, helping with individual tasks, like even scheduling the forums or working with subcommittees. And so we really think something's missing, we could add it, like it covers quite a bit of ground. Is it called the housing coordinator or the affordable housing coordinator? It just be housing coordinator. But it's only affordable, right? It's not like they're dealing with housing. Well, yeah, so, I mean- Good question. We don't, but you know, it's somewhat, we could have like right, like affordable housing can also be defined as 80% AMI or less, but that's not really what they're focusing on. It could be a combination, right? They could like a comprehensive permit is market rate and affordable housing. So really, you know, we're not going to limit it to something that becomes a defined AMI level, but the position is funded with CPA money. So the CPA has limits on what income housing can be. So it really follows, you know, the CPA guidance and regulations and what the trust is looking at, but- It does say further down in there in the new part of the job summary you added that all this stuff that they're doing is helping facilitate the development of affordable housing. So it's helping facilitate that, even though in the process of that, there may be some other housing developed too, I presume. Well, I wish it would say affordable housing coordinator because I wish that was their main focus. That will be the main focus. Okay. I mean, they're not going to be developing downtown housing unless there is an affordable component to it, right? So it could be right that this person is prospecting property. This position is helping and they find property that could be a mix of housing and they're going to really work to get affordable housing or some other housing, but you know, capital A affordable, like I said, is a defined term. It's always, if you use the word affordable housing, it's always, it's a 80% of the area minimum income. That's the word. That's the way the state defines it. So typically if I hear affordable housing, it's 80% AMI or less. And so housing couldn't support a higher income level. Oh, but well, okay, but it's not as if like, even the applicants are going to know that per se. I mean, well, you'll tell them, but that specific kind of affordable housing isn't kind of just like widely known. It's specific to this position. There's two kinds of ways that we end up talking about affordable housing. Affordable housing with a sort of capital A, which is the distinction that we often make means this thing that Nate just defined and affordable housing meaning it's just affordable and somebody can manage to live there is a different thing and may include all sorts of other things. And it's a problem that there's very much, there's very little housing that is affordable for all kinds of people, but the capital A affordable housing is, as Nate said, up to 80% of area median income. But are there any other questions or concerns specifically about the job description other than Ashley's wish that the title of it, of the position included affordable housing coordinator? Anything else? People see anything missing from this or anything? And now I can't see everybody as well. So I have to make sure that I'm not missing anybody. I don't see any hands. So I would like to ask John Hornick, who has an attendee with his hand up. Nate, can you allow John to speak please? First, I can't see the entire proposal. So the answer to my question may be there, but I don't know what it is. There's no reference here made really to the role of the affordable housing trust with respect to this person that I can see. For example, it does not say that the cast assigned will be with agreement or consent of the chairs, but the chairs will also have the capacity to assign duties or tasks to this person. And I think that's a critical thing if it's not there that should be. Thank you. I'm not really sure now. Well, if Nate could put the whole thing up, I could get a look at it, which I can't now. That said, at the top, the position is supposed to duties are supposed to balance the priorities of the town and the trust. The direct supervisor is the senior planner who assigns tasks and evaluates performance based on department objectives and trust priorities. But the supervisor is the senior planner and exactly how that works out in there is not clear. It does not say, John, that under that rubric there that the chairs could assign a task. You're right, I don't see that it says that. Some of the duties include performing tasks assigned in connection with trust-sponsored events. Some of the things that are wanted to do are things that the trust wants done, but it doesn't really say who's telling the person which of these many things is supposed to be the priority of today or tomorrow or whatever. So maybe that is something, Nate, that I also would rather have it be spelled out in here that that would be possible in some way. I kind of agree with John's comment. And I see Paul's hand up. Yeah, so that's not an option, actually. Under the charter, the town manager is the appointing authority and supervises all town staff. So this is a person who would support the work of the trust. The co-chairs or the trust does not direct any employees. No committee does. And so I think to be clear about it, I mean, I think the whole point of this position being created is because the trust wanted it created. So I think the attempt is to make it as aligned as possible with the trust. And Nate can talk to about what he sees this person doing in terms of supporting the work that the trust is doing. But in terms of like day-to-day supervision and options for overseeing and the responsibility for that, that rests under the town charter with the manager who then it gets flows down to, in this case, the senior planner. How will they know they're not doing non-affordable housing stuff? Like, I guess we'll see what they do, but I don't want them to work on town stuff that is not related to affordable housing because it's only 25 hours. Can't the town hire people to help in the zoning board things and we get an actual worker? Yeah, so I think that's the intent. Ashley is for this to be a worker. I think that's been the challenge is that we've got employees like Nate has multiple responsibilities and you only get a little slice of him for affordable housing. And what we've suffered from is that we haven't had someone whose main mission has been to work on affordable housing and that's what we're hoping is that this position will be able to do that. And Nate, is that your understanding? Yeah, Dave and I met with Carol and Erica and talked about this. And you know, some of us were saying there has to be a little bit of trust here that we're professional town employees. We're not gonna have this person doing things that aren't in the job description or something that runs afoul of CPA regulations as well require it to be under affordable housing. So we're not gonna have this person helping with open space and rec plans or doing things that just aren't part of affordable housing. And so we said that there can be frequent check-ins with the co-chairs of the trust. And so the person will be available to respond to the co-chairs. What we don't want though is this person to be getting emailed from every member of the trust telling them to work on a task when it may or may not be a priority of the trust or the town. And so really we wanna have some clear parameters on how this person gets guidance and work direction. And so they're supporting the trust by working on tasks that the trust has voted on at meetings and says they wanna have worked on. And then day to day it could be that, for instance, we have the zoning board because this summer we're gonna have three comprehensive permits in front of the zoning board for affordable housing. And that will be 10 or 12 meetings dedicated just to the affordable housing projects. And oftentimes it takes a lot of staff support and it could be just be, so with that the person would be assigned for that. They wouldn't go to a ZVA meeting if it's dealing with someone's commercial use. But if, for instance, oftentimes larger projects need special permits and they have through inclusionary zoning they're required to have affordable units. And those developers often don't know anything about affordable housing, right? They're not really affordable housing developers. And so we spend a lot of time meeting with them, working with them to get those affordable units whether it's three units in a project or 20 units in a project. And so this staff person would help through that permit process because they have to work with the state with marketing agents. They have to get deed restrictions. The town has to approve a lot of things. And so, and that's the kind of capacity and role this person would have. And so we're not gonna assign them things that aren't related to housing. I mean, the town itself is, staff is also very excited to have this. We've talked about it for a few years to really have this person also reach out to property owners, right? Maybe do some prospecting, help get projects going that could take advantage of conservation land. So it's both conservation and housing, right? Really be creative. And so, and anywhere from that to research, right? If the trust wants to research like a local voucher program, this position could research that. They could reach out to communities. You know, George Ryan is putting together that spreadsheet and it's a lot of work. And other boards and committees want to use that data. And so this person can really mine the data and help present it and work with the trust in that. So yeah, I feel like there is an understanding that we could have weekly meetings, town staff and co-chairs every week to really help with this position. But it's not that trust member one, two, three or four or five is gonna be emailing them daily telling them to do something. We really can't have that. I think that would actually become really ineffective. But I think at trust meetings we could have this be an agenda item that we discuss. Okay, what update every month what's happening with this position? How do we want to help set priorities for this position? But also they could come to the meetings. Sorry, they come to the meetings though too and tell us what they're working on basically. Yeah, they would come to the meetings. Let me, Allegra. I was kind of gonna say that but in the opposite direction is they come to the meetings so they'll hear what the trust priorities are and what the trust hopes that they'll be working on. And also I just wanted to comment that I do think seeing that they would be possibly writing grants is important. I think that would be potentially a good area for things like rental assistance programs or some sort of creative, you know some sort of creative like rental assistance whether it's helping people with upfront costs to move into units or like helping, you know stop gap eviction prevention stuff. That's in my previous work in housing like the grant funding was allowed us to be more flexible than some of the state funding did. Thank you. Paul again. Yeah, thanks. I think that's a really good important point because I mean beyond the grants but a lot of the work we anticipate we're going to need to be doing is on sort of rental assistance and things like that someone might not exactly qualify for affordable housing or under the legal terms or it might be a little bit we might have a different standard than the strict affordable housing. So having that ability to let this person dig into that a little bit. I know that's one of the directives I have to look at some support going forward after COVID basically. So I think that's a really important point as well. Can I ask a question? Yes. Is there anything we can put in here and it would not be in the job description I don't think but it's a lot of money with no sort of deciding ability and that makes me nervous. And so I hear trust but I also is there a way to have check-ins? I would like to, if we do this I would like to have it for multiple years but is there a way to make sure that we're both getting what we need out of this and in a way that doesn't screw the person because they're suddenly out of a job because we didn't agree on something but am I saying anything that makes sense? I hope it's clear. We were saying that a member of the trust or two could be on the review committee so in a hiring process possibly and then like I was saying we could have weekly check-ins with the co-chairs of the trust so we could have standing meetings where we discuss this as a town employee that also have annual reviews and you can have a semi-annual review. And so yeah, so I think there's always chance for feedback and so that position is not caught off guard in terms of how they're performing. And so yeah, if this person, this position can attend every meeting we can have weekly check-ins or every two weeks with the co-chairs with this position. So I feel like that's something that is very much anticipated having a dialogue with the town and the trust and the position. So I feel like we're not gonna lead the position astray by assigning them tasks or something that really isn't what a priority is. And so and if we need to pivot, we can. So I mean, I don't know if that answers your question but I feel like, for instance, we're planning these forums, these listening sessions that we had this position, we wanted them to help with this. We'd say, here's what we're doing. Can you help organize translation services? Can you find other resources even down to can you help set up for the event? Okay, and maybe the next topic is we have a few properties that are coming on the market. Can you research those in terms of zoning and other land use constraints or parameters? And so, I feel like we can really set that up to have a list of specific tasks that can be completed and then reported back to the trust or the co-chairs. I actually think that doing this this way might help us as a trust to figure out what our priorities are because we would have to be able to say, here's what we want you to do now. Here's what we want you to do now or whatever. So and that things will come up like maybe something comes on the market but hopefully there's time when there isn't sort of a when the person doesn't have to be reactive to something but we actually get to do a better job of saying these are our priorities. Let's move forward with them. I, John Horink has his hand up again and so unless anyone doesn't want to we will let have John come in and shortly hopefully we'll be able to take some kind of a vote on something about this, John. I would suggest even if you do not change the language of the job description, the motion enabling this for passing it should have some language that the planning department must show due deference to the wishes of the trust as expressed by the chair or chairs because this may go beyond Nate and Carol and Erica. It can go into future years. And so having a record like that I think is important consistent with the concerns that Richard expressed. Thank you. It seems like we are hopefully at a place where we could have a motion which we can then talk about some more. And I'm not exactly sure how to say it especially given what John just said but if somebody wants to take a stab at it please do if somebody doesn't all make an attempt. Nate. Yeah, I wasn't gonna have a motion for say but I'd say in terms of funding you could say like the last one up to 25,000 a year for three years. And so really we'd spend judiciously, right? So whatever the difference is over 30,000 up to 25 would be charged to the trust but we wouldn't spend anymore, right? And so it's not like we're gonna spend it unless we need to. So I just wanna say that with the CPA dollars would be spent first, the trust dollars would be spent second as needed up to a certain amount. So we're not obligating the trust to spend a certain amount every year it's up to and that way, if we don't spend it it just doesn't, it doesn't get spent. That sounds good. So. Can I ask a clarifying question? Of course. Do we need a motion to approve the funds, the support of the position or both? I believe probably both. I don't think we can exactly do one without the other but I probably, so it could be one motion that incorporates both but I think both things need some kind I mean the job description isn't really exactly ours to approve. It's as Paul has explained it's a town position that is going forward and so we can say something about it but we can say we are in concert or something with the way this job description is written with the proviso that we wanna make sure that the trust priorities are respected and so we would like to have lots of conversations about that and also we approve up to $25,000 per year for three years for this purpose. That's my idea of what the motion might sound like. Seconded. All right. Rob, did you get all that? We have a motion that has been made and seconded and we might want, we might, Rob seriously, do you have, can you make that, can you either read it back or do you feel confident that you can make it into words when you need to? Yeah, I don't have it. Exactly. It's, the motion is that the trust authorizes the town to draw funds up to $25,000 to the fund. This has a coordinator position subject to reference shown to priorities of the trust as conveyed by the chair. Okay. I think that's, okay. And then, and also up to $25,000 a year for three years. That part's so much easier to say. And we have a second. And so what other comments and conversation is there about this motion? I'm just, I just want to say that then before, I mean, I want them to be hired and I am fine with the money, then we have to get our priorities straight. We have to have priorities to tell them because we're all over the place. And so I don't know if this is, hopefully they get hired in a week. And then we got to, somehow we got to figure out in a week what our priorities are, right? Yeah, that would be true except I don't think, I say, yes, we need to work on figuring out what our priorities are. I think all of us would agree with that. I don't think it's going to happen in a week. Either it's a job hiring or the priorities, but yes, that's a good thing that we need to be doing. And Paul. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I think just first off the jobs have to be posted for 14 days per the charter. So we can't hire a week, but it'll take time to get this person on board. But I think your next charter, your next meeting, there should be a discussion about priorities and you'll look at the housing production plan and other things that we have already established and go through that and say, what are the top three things you want to really focus on over the next year? And that will be really important for this position. Thank you, Erica. And I just want to say two things. One is that one of our topics is a joint meeting with the CRC to talk a little bit about our priorities. And the second though, even though it's a little late, June 20th is also an opportunity to listen to what community members, both in Amherst and out who want to live in the community, want us to also think about priorities. So I think this is an ongoing discussion. We can start short-term with our short-term priorities and then eventually look at long-term and just to remind everybody that our strategic plan has ended. And so this is an opportunity to really engage long-term, looking at short-term, medium-term, and long-term priorities. And this individual can help us do that with data. So data to action. Do we have a meeting that is, create a new strategic plan? I would like to stick to the motion at hand because our presenter at eight o'clock and it's eight o'clock is here. So if we can go through with this motion, then we can hear about tiny houses. And yes, we don't have a meeting yet, but we will. So is there any, can we, I would like to call for a vote if I get to do that on the motion before us. And I will start going around in a circle. Risha. Yes. Paul. Yes, abstain on this one as well. I support it. Erica. Yes. I'm a yes. Rob. Yes. Ashley. Yes. Allegra. Yes. Great. Thank you very much. We have one more thing on our agenda, the one that I pushed off so we'd have time for this. And we're going to keep pushing it off. It's kind of mostly a housekeeping thing. I do want to do it, but I'm going to table it right now because I would like to hear, I would like to invite Maggie Randolph to become a panelist and tell us about tiny houses. So Maggie or anyone who's here for the presentation, please raise your hand and then we'll promote you to panelists. That will be the easiest way to do it. Hi, everyone. How are you? Good. Good to meet you. All right. Good. You too. Thank you so much for having me. Well, I'm definitely going to share our tiny home project that we're taking place right now under construction and dover. I'm going to share my screen and we'll get to it. My agenda. Screen sharing. Is there a way that can enable that? Nate will figure it out. I hope. Maybe. One panelist can share at a time. Is there. Is it not allowing you Maggie right now to share your screen? It's saying a host disabled participant screen share. Can you try that now? Nope. There it goes. All right. Here we go. So I'm going to walk you through our project. And we said Dover in a Hampshire. So I appreciate the opportunity. And I will preface this by saying that, you know, everything I'm talking about is, you know, what we are discovering and how we've gotten our project through. But I don't necessarily know the ins and outs of Amherst, Massachusetts. So I know that there are going to be differences. And I know that may arise, you know, or bring up some questions. So we'll just get started and we'll see what comes up from this. So a little background into, you know, one of the questions we get a lot is how do we get into this? So my husband, about 12 years ago or so started an assisted living. And he has grown it into, you know, a second facility as a memory care facility. So the first facility was 24 beds in Durham, New Hampshire. And the second is 60 beds. And that's memory care also in Durham, New Hampshire. And so back in 2019, you know, as we were going through, you know, this is pre-pandemic at this point, you know, we were already struggling with staffing and I'm sure we were all, you know, feeling the same crunches everywhere. And so we, you know, we gave 21% raises and we're trying to figure out like, you know, what can we do to attract, you know, keep attracting staff without, you know, basically having to, you know, pass ridiculous pricing creases onto our own residents. So, you know, where did we find that balance? And we talked a lot with them. And the thing that came back up, you know, back over and over again was, you know, I have to drive so far away, you know, to find affordable housing and childcare is expensive. So my, I'm an architect in New Hampshire. My husband has involved with building and rail estate for a long time. So we decided, well, hey, let's get together and let's see what we can, you know, we can come up with. And let's be creative about what benefits can we offer. So we, in 2020, we broke ground on, and in 2021, we opened a seven unit apartment building on the campus of our memory care facility. So I said it's seven one bedroom apartments. It has a childcare for staff and office space as well for administration, all about 600 feet away from staff. And that has been a great thing for us. I'm going through it really quickly. And I'm not sharing any pictures of it because that's not what we're here to talk about. But it's, it showed us how much it can impact our business and what a stabilizer it can be for us. So that was really exciting. We rent out to our staff at approximately 30% of their pay per the affordability, you know, definitions that we have in New Hampshire. And I think they're nationwide too. But we definitely have an RIS. You know, that defines that. Or if you're part time, it's the equivalent of about 16 hours of worth of work. And that has really been a game changer. And so John and I said, well, you know, we're crazy enough to do it this time. Let's do it again. So we had already in order to make the building we built affordable. We had already started basically a construction company. We had started buying excavation equipment. We hired a site. A small site team, a small framing team. And then we said, Hey, you know, let's scale it up. And so we started our dover project. So. I will now get into it. So I want to back up in a second though and talk about, you know, one of the questions we get a lot is like, how do we get this through? And I'll talk about why we decided on the project and the tiny homes and everything. And the layout in a minute, but you know, how do we get there? So when we talk about, you know, urban planning, we talk about the transect, right? And so this is, you know, from the Congress of New Urbanism, it's been a, you know, definitely a great tool to figure out just contextually what makes sense. And this has been really helpful for us in figuring out, you know, what kind of development we have that wouldn't be so. Abhorrent to the neighbors and to the neighborhood, you know, sticking out like a, you know, You know, like a sore thumb, essentially. So we don't want that. We want to, you know, have a smooth project, one that fits in and one that, you know, residents are proud to live there. And the neighbors are proud to have it next to them. So we use the transect as a part of this tool. And you can see that, you know, we, we range from the natural zone, going right through rural, suburban, you know, larger single family homes, general urban zone. You get a little bit more dense, smaller lots, you know, you can get some mixed use corner stores. The urban center zone. Definitely, you know, again, a little bit more dense, higher scale. You start to get more defined streets and such. And then you get an urban core. So in New Hampshire, you know, what does this look like? Well, obviously we have, you know, our white mountains, you know, the national forest up there, we've got a lot of untouched land, which is great. And a lot of farmland. Actually, this is a farm in the town that I grew up in. So you can see it's very, there's nothing around it. That solely translates into what is suburban look like. A lot of our zoning here calls for a minimum of two acres per zone. And actually can expand from that. So we'll talk about zoning in a little bit. And just, you know, how. That's the basis for what we can do with our projects. And that played a big part in what we were able to do and how we were able to get over. Approved. The next general urban zone. This is actually an exeter in New Hampshire. You can see again, smaller, lots, much closer together. This street is. This whole neighborhood actually, it expands is packed at Halloween time. So they do have to buy a lot more candy. So there is a downside, but. Sidewalks have started to come in. Forges engage the street. And so it becomes, you know, very, you know, you get walkability. And you can see the density that starts to occur. The Google maps right below it. This is downtown Portsmouth. You know, you get, you know, again, you get condos. Housing choices. They could be, you know, an entire unit that's owned by somebody. You know, there's again, you know, you're just expanding your choices. And, you know, the density is definitely increased. And you get a lot more, you know, mixed use down below. Really vibrant streets, a lot more on street parking as well. You know, much more defined. And then I did put Manchester, New Hampshire in as our urban core. We don't have a lot of traffic. You know, we don't have a Boston. Although it is really nice. So we can, you know, zip on down and enjoy. But, you know, again, this is kind of, you know, certainly much more defined. You get boulevards as your streets in here. So this is the flow that we try and work with. And so again, context is very important. For this. So when we talk about, you know, how can we make this work? You know, in New Hampshire, what we're so often seeing is, you know, we get a lot of detached single family. And this is even more dense than I think we're used to seeing here. Again, with our suburban zone. And then we see, you know, maybe a little bit of this scale, but certainly over into, you know, the mid-rise section. So downtown. And we come back to, we're really missing this middle housing, you know, missing middle is a really important tool that we can use as a way to increase our density without it feeling more dense. And to really create these communities that, you know, that we know and love. And so the other part too of this is that we, when we talk to our staff about, Hey, you know, what, what would you like, you know, what are you, what are you looking for? What would make a difference in your lives? You know, so many of them said, you know, again, I can't afford to live here. I have to drive an hour away. And then I have to drive another 45 minutes to go drop my child off the childcare, you know, and then I'll get to work. And then I have to drive another 45 minutes to go drop my child off the childcare, you know, and then I'll get to work. And then I repeat it on the other side. And so we take an eight hour day and turn it into a 12 hour day. And so talking about, you know, quality of life for, you know, for, you know, for our staff and for the kids. So it's good. You know, it's very wary. And a lot of the stuff we talked to, or, you know, in this age range, you know, 25 years old, you know, 34, this is a little dated now. Millennials are a little older. You know, we're kind of, you know, pushing 40. At this point, but we've got Gen Z, which are certainly in this camp as well. So it's a transition, you know, baby boomers. You know, that was the American dream, right? I want a single family house. I want to pick at fence site. You know, this is what I want. And it shows, you know, 71% at this point, you know, looking for single family homes. And you could see, you know, only 27% looking for missing middle house. And it's so different for millennials and even more different for, for Gen Z. This is the we generation. We're going to share everything on social media. I'm going to walk. I might not even own a car. So it's a really different perspective that we have to consider when we look at the growth of our communities. Just pointing out some of the different missing homes. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm just pointing out some of the different missing middle options, you know, duplexes, triflexes, fourplexes, courtyard departments, bungalow courts, particularly like that one for obvious reasons, townhomes, multiplexes and live work units. But again, looking at the scale and how it works right up. And so it becomes seamless. So let's go to Dover. So this is a map of Dover. It's terribly exciting. Thank you, Google Earth. But it just gives you a quick outline literally. Here we do have an urban core as much as an urban core as we can get. So we do have some high rise buildings in, and you can see that we get, it's a little bit more, you know, less dense than the core. And then it starts to peter out. So just, you know, even if you blurred your eyes and looked at it and see like, you know, what we're, you know, what we have. So it's mostly suburban zone and some of the general urban zone. And so that's the context that we were working with. And now we come into our site. We are actually along, this is Back River Road. We've got the Bellamy River coming in alongside us. This is our site actually right here. And you can see what's around it. We've got some single family home developments. There are some pollinars associations, primarily dead ends, that sort of thing. So this is again, we wanted to consider the context. And I bring up this cottage court because this is where the fun happens. Dover zoning is really, really interesting. They made decisions long ago, long before we were ever certainly involved in anything that they were going to support affordable housing. They wanted to increase the spectrum of housing, whether it be from, you know, very low income all the way to high end. And you can find, well, you could, apartments in the area that, that ran the gamut. There are now apartments in Dover that are running for 3,000 a month. And there are certainly apartments that are still available for about, you know, 900 to 1,000. They're hard to come by. They do exist. So Dover has made a pointed effort to increase the availability of their housing. It's a great location. It's about, you know, 15, 20 minutes from Portsmouth. It's about, you know, 45 minutes plus to Concord. And the interesting thing about Dover as well is that it's one of the youngest demographics in the state. So it's definitely a growing area. And so you can tell like that, you know, the increase of the housing that they started to, to implement is definitely already making the difference. So the zoning program that we fell under actually is part of their TDR program, their transfer of development rights. Their program basically stipulates that in, in this city you can buy density. And that meaning that if you had a single family home in certain districts, my dear, I just want to clarify that in certain just, you know, if you had a single family home and you wanted to add another home onto your property, you could do so. And you would just pay a fee that fee is approximately $13,000 per unit at this point. They, they redid or, you know, added to the TDR program and said, all right, if you agree to be under a thousand square feet, then we're going to card, you know, only going to charge you $6,000. And so I said, okay. Then when right before we came in with our project, they implemented another version of the TDR that said, if you are agree to cap your square footage at 600 square feet or less, and you agree also the cap the rent of the, of each of the units at the HUD fair market rental rate. As defined by New Hampshire housing, then we'll waive that fee entirely. So that's how this project came to be. It was a really, really, you know, innovative thing and that's what makes, you know, this project affordable. You know, we can, we can finally get this to work. So the other part of the zoning that we still had to comply with, we get this question a lot. Why don't you build apartment buildings? Well, apartment buildings weren't allowed in the zone. This zone is a single family zone where you could have some access. So again, when we, you know, talk about, you know, what part of the transect, you know, we're in here. But you know, you're really, you want to be respectful again of what's around. So that's when we decided, okay. Tiny homes. We definitely be under 600 square feet. So let's, you know, let's look at that. We can cap the rent, no problem because that's what we want to do for our staff or anybody else who wants to live here as But what's another way that we can really, you know, increase the walkability and the community feelings, you know, here. We could have done nine single family homes and we could have, you know, sold them for 700, you know, 1000 plus at this point, but we wanted to do better than that. So entering the cottages at Back River Road. This is our site plan. So instead of the nine single family lots that we would have done, we are off of Back River Road. We are putting in a new street that has on-street parking and a parking lot here. And then the tiny homes or the cottages are all clustered in off of the road. So the backs of the homes actually face the road. The entries to each of these are from a porch from a common green. This is known as a cottage court to our cottage cluster. Ross Chapin who has done an amazing amount of work in out West has coined the term pocket neighborhood and this is an example of some of his work and they're just beautiful. And I love the examples of, you know, communities getting together for dinners and so there's a lot of exciting things going on there. So that's the type of community feeling that we wanted to emulate. So you can see that we, it's, you know, it kind of evolved a little bit from this plan, but we do have 44 tiny homes. The square footage is 384 square foot footprint, which equates to 16 by 24. And they do have 160 square foot loft in each. So you get about 540 square feet in total. These will be rented out as one bedroom units. And again, at the fair market rental rate and perpetuity. And so the loft could be a bedroom, if you had a child. So, you know, we're trying to give as much flexibility as we can. If you want all ground floor living, then, you know, the loft is a bonus space and you can put extra suitcases up there. Always need storage. So here's an example of kind of the cottage, you know, the clusters and how they're facing from up above and a rendering. More renderings from within each of the clusters and how we're hoping that they'll start to feel. And again, like this common green, you know, the residents can, you know, this is their open space. They can do with what they want with it. You know, if we can have a fire pit out there or the residents want a community garden and just, you know, open space for, you know, for kids. They found with these pocket neighborhoods that these are much, have a great, you know, not only community feeling, but a safety feeling because you know who's living across from you. You know, if Mrs. Smith lives, you know, down here, you know, if you haven't seen her in a few days, you're going to notice that you haven't and you're going to go check. And, you know, and, you know, Holly is, you know, free to let her kids out and run around and she knows, again, that everybody has an eye on. So, you know, they've, again, they found the community, you know, wellness to be very, very high. I think we've all felt the impacts of the isolation through the pandemic. And I think that, what did I hear the other week that the isolation is equivalent to smoking three packs a day. So I thought that that, you know, just on our wellbeing and our health, I was like, oh my gosh, that's an insane technique or, you know, a stat there. So again, that's what we're trying to, you know, encourage, you know, again, walkability community and just being a part of the overall neighborhood. Square footages and, you know, and here, what did the floor plans look like? It has gone through some evolution since we've been under construction, but the concept remains the same that on the ground floor, you'll get a combination kitchen living area. There'd be a bathroom laundry with a stackable washer dryer hookups for it and then a bedroom, you know, single bedroom. We have evolved these to include a small set of stairs in here, they're tiny home stairs. So they are different. I'll get into that in a second to access the loft above. Again, 16 feet by 24 feet. And we chose those dimensions because those are sheathing dimensions. We're trying to cut down on waste. They are 12 feet to the eaves and 16 feet to underneath the ridge because those are standard stud heights. So again, we're trying to be as efficient as we can with our bottle. I didn't get it as many windows because my husband is eminently sensible. It says, do we really need as many windows? I said, yes, dear. And he said, no, dear. And so we compromised. The joys of working together, which is great. And then this is the general palette that we have. And the reason why we chose the palette is because these are the colors used in our neighbor's homes. And so again, we're trying to fit in with the context. We don't want this to stand out like a sore throat again. If we had been able to, which again, we couldn't do an apartment building surrounded by a CF parking. I think we would have gotten a lot of pushback from our neighbors and understandably. Moving on, these are some construction photos. We're a little further on but you can see the tiny home stairs. We fall under a different building code. It's a different appendix in the international residential code. So these are narrower and these are steeper, which is the other reason to certainly keep a ground floor bedroom in these units. But it is a pretty cool space. And my son says he definitely wants to turn into a gaming space if he ever looked at one, which is hilarious to me. And then some current construction photos. So kind of where we are in the first cluster. This is a little bit hard to see because it's definitely a spread out. So it doesn't feel quite as wide as this one you're actually standing in here. Although that is our golden retriever and he is glaring at the camera for some reason, probably because I'm not giving in enough treats. You can see siding is going, we're getting the roofs on but I'm really excited at the way, just looking at how this is going to feel with the little porches coming in and you can picture the sidewalks coming into the space leading you in and into the feeling like this. So we're really excited to have the single family feeling to offer residents their own four walls. We know these are rentals and that was our pretty agreement that we have with the city, they're not allowed to be for sale. That kind of works and also though in keeping them affordable. Because we found that with other communities, you'd have to figure out deed restrictions, that sort of thing about how to cap the price. But if you don't, then you sell them first and then they quickly spiral out of affordability. I think there's a small home in a pocket neighborhood and conquered mass that I think sold for $900,000. So they quickly go out. I know, it's crazy. So that's kind of where we are with our project right now. I'm happy to answer any other questions if you have any. See, I'm gonna go look at the participants to see. There looks, okay, we have one panelist has a question and that is Carol, you have a question. And then Rob, thank you, Maggie. It was really a great presentation. Carol, I think you have your hand up. Yeah, I was having trouble unmuting myself, I'm sorry. I have so many questions. It sounds like part of why this work was a really cool zoning thing that Dover happened to have. And also that zoning thing was something that you had to do on a single family lot. A single family lot was one that could, as long as it made a bunch of more things and they were only cost this much, then you could put a whole bunch of them there and that was the amazing thing. But it had to stay single family because it was its own single family, even though all this other stuff. And I just make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Yeah. Yeah, and then the other thing I wondered was, so you got 44 of those houses on how big was the property? Oh, so it was 7.36 acres, but we built on about half of that. We put the remaining half into conservation. Cool, okay, okay. And then I wonder, maybe this isn't even a question you can answer, but if there weren't the requirement that they were rentals, how would you imagine, what would you imagine you could sell them for? Oh, gosh. Maybe you don't, maybe if you can't answer, that's okay. I don't know what to say. Being not a real estate agent, I don't know what they would sell for. I'm terrified to think of what they could. I know that our one bedroom apartments in the apartment building we built in Dover, someone told us that we could condo them for $250,000 each. They do face the water, but it's also 500 square foot one bedroom as well, so yeah. Wow, yeah. Okay, thank you. I hate to venture against there. Thank you. Rob, you had your hand up. Yeah. I was wondering if you could give an estimate of the per unit costs and whether you're getting any grants or government subsidy or anything to help pay for that. Sure, I'll answer the second part first. So we have received no outside or a public state of federal funding for this project. We have done this through our bank new report bank as well as through this Stratford Economic Development Corporation for any gap funding. And a lot of, we've certainly invested a few $100,000 of our own money into this. So I'll back that up by saying that we will continue to own this project. And again, we're looking at this as a long-term hold for us, the short-term benefit, instead of a 9% return as GCs would typically put into a project for our developer, saying, okay, we're gonna build a single family homes and we'll have the 9% return. Our short-term benefits is the stabilization of our business and the ability to offer that as a benefit to our staff. The long-term, it's a real estate investment and we'll continue to hold value and grow. So you asked about the cost of the development. We do have a pretty sizable retaining wall on the project. And so even with all the site work, land acquisition, everything, we are cost per unit is about $120,000 per. But I would keep in mind that John as the general contractor takes no profit. I include a 1% architectural fee in the project. So by doing what we do, and we have again hired our own team and they're awesome. And we have purchased our own excavators and dump trucks and bulldozers and all the fun. I really think that John just likes to buy tractors, by the way, I really think that's it. But outside of that, we get our own framing team and everything. So by keeping as much as we can in-house, we subcontract plumbing, electrical sprinkler and spray foam. But we can keep our costs down as well. So that's how we afford to do a lot of that. Thank you. Yep. Paul? Yeah, well, first off, thank you for the presentation is really good. I loved that the genesis of this was a real need in your business and that that's what motivated you to move forward. And so that was really an interesting perspective. And I also appreciate the approach that you took. But I guess one of the questions I had is had there been an opportunity or the availability of building an apartment building, would you have chosen that for efficiencies reasons or were you forced into the tiny house mode or did you say, hey, this is really the better way that we want to develop this parcel? I guess it's a twofold thing. I guess from a cost perspective, there are certainly some efficiencies to building apartments. You've got less roofing, less siding, probably fewer windows going in there. But on the other side, you have increased sprinkler systems, you have firewalls, you have other price increases that would come with everything. So for us, it's almost a wash. But again, so that's when I come back to the transect into the context of the neighborhood. We, when we went to the planning board, we only had one resident come out on the day and speak against the project. And it happened to do with our residents peering in and seeing into his yard. And we had to draw out a section and show that no, they were physically above and we physically couldn't see into his yard. So we did it. But we went driveway by driveway with our neighbors and talked about who would be living here. And we talked about what it was gonna look like. We did renderings for them. And so while residents from some of the developments further away from our immediate neighbors, came out and we're talking about, oh, well, what services are these people going to need? We didn't actually have anyone but the one resident show up in opposition to the project. So I do feel that having a less contentious typology to the context made it a much smoother process. Thank you. Ashley? I was just gonna say in general, thank you so much. I mean, I'm very excited about this. But the reason, one reason is that Amherst loses people from 25 years old to 49 every year. There's nowhere to live for people that are 25 to 49 years old. So the population, I could send you the graph. I probably sent it all to everyone. Is that we're distant people, 15 to 24 constantly, 50 years and older are staying in their houses. 25 year olds to 49 year olds don't need or want or can afford single family houses. I think we need to move forward with that in mind. But then also it sounds like New Hampshire has some really progressive zoning that Amherst doesn't have yet. It seems like half of affordable housing is ditching old zoning, getting new zoning, progressive zoning. And so that's not even a trust issue. That's like a town issue. But that's kind of like half the battle it seems like. I would definitely agree that the zoning is a big part of it. I mean, I've sat in a fascinating webinar a year ago from off the coast. They're based out of California, I think. Some of their graphics are from, that I've included in here. But they talked about as well, the history of our zoning and why we have such large parcels. And to be quite honest, I mean, there are racist and socioeconomic segregation undertones to it all. Who can we keep out? I mean, look at cul-de-sacs that housing developments that will lie here, we only have $500,000 houses. Well, over here we have 600,000s and don't new people come in here. It's so easy to say, let's keep us safe and new people out there. When really, really? That's what we're doing here. I mean, we're all a community and we're all crucial to it. This community in Dover, it's based off, the price will be right now, the price that has been set for rent. The max I'll tell you is $1,232. That's again, not a figure that we've said that's provided by HUD, but it's based off of the annual median income, the AMI of the area for Dover, that's 85,000. So this project is meant to support people making $45,000 a year. And so, you know, actually when we got those letters from our neighbors that are like, what services are these people going to need? You know, we said, what services? You know, these are teachers. These are firefighters. They live in your community. They care for your mom at the assistive living. They serve you coffee. You know, they do so much in here and this community will not function without them. They serve. So why did they force to be marginalized and drive away? So, yes, zoning is a huge, huge part of this. I will say that not every community in New Hampshire is as progressive as Dover, but I applaud Dover all day long for making the decision years, you know, decades ago to include a greater spectrum of housing. Before I move to the attendees, any other trust members have a question? Nate, you have a question or- I'm just a quick question. Are each of those units connected to utilities on their own? Like, so what's the utility, you know, the sewer water systems there? Thank you. Things I always forget to mention things. So these are connected to municipal water and sewer. We do get a lot of questions about, you know, oh, well, can this be done in areas where you don't have water and sewer? You know, obviously the vast majority of New Hampshire certainly doesn't have access to municipal systems. And so there are possibilities, you know, looking at DES, you know, with their regulations, you know, they only require, you know, two thirds of an acre for septic. So it's not the two acre minimum that we're so used to, you know, wells can support multiple, you know, buildings and septic, you know, the same thing, you know, I know, you know, we talk about some residential communities or manufactured housing communities, you know, they're very dense and they're in areas that are not, you know, have water and sewer always. So I think that there are a lot of possibilities, but again, it comes down to a choice, you know, so many of these regulations are, they're man-made. What can we do? Let's question. Allegra? I just want to echo kind of the gratitude that your project came out of kind of trying to house your employees and see what they needed to do. I think that's really important, especially in our town right now. And, you know, I know that places like Nantucket have made provisions for employee housing since it's a very expensive place to live. And I just, I guess this question is maybe more for somebody from Amherst, but is there anything in our zoning at this point that precludes the ability to build any sort of tiny homes? I know the accessory dwelling unit is a thing that passed, but can we cluster tiny homes somewhere? Is there any zoning that would not allow that at this point? Just a quick question, Maggie, that's all one property, right? Yes. The development state is one property. So it's not really a subdivision, it's just... Correct, yeah. Yeah, I think Amherst has pretty flexible zoning actually. And some of it is, you know, I sort of with Maggie today, you know, the market in Amherst is student housing. And so if what's allowed and what the market is, you know, what people are building to is student housing. And, you know, that's kind of where they go, right? So for instance, a few years ago, it was three and four bedroom units was what was being built in residential rental developments. And now it's studios and ones. So we're seeing, you know, two, 300 square foot units being built in an apartment building. So it might be 80 units, but it's 80 300 square foot units as opposed to, you know, 54 bedroom units, which would have been a few years ago. Well, we do allow multiple buildings on a property. We do allow different types of residential uses. And I think some of it is, you know, we haven't had someone that perhaps came from the same perspective as Maggie and her team, right? So it is, you know, that's what they were looking for, the housing they were looking for and what they wanted. And so it could happen. I think, you know, some of it is, you know, it may require some different, I don't know what kind of, it's like, I don't know if you have like a special perimeter, you know, there would be venues permitting. And so some developers might find that to be a difficult path. And the town typically works with developers to get to yes, right? So we would try to work with people. So, you know, like Valley CDC is doing the 30 home ownership unit in North Amherst. And that's a comprehensive permit which allows waivers from zoning, but the development is really close to meeting zoning, right? They are doing that model after co-housing, you know, right near the site. And although they are going through a comprehensive permit, the zoning almost allows that without many waivers. So it's, you know, I think the town does have flexible zoning. It's really how, how can you be creative with it? Sometimes it takes just a lot of asking questions and, you know, being patient with it, but. Paul? Yeah, but I think what we don't have made, and correct me if I'm wrong, is the transfer of development rights, which is what was important in terms of, for Maggie's proposal, because had they done this under traditional, without the allowance for cutting out that fee, they might not have been able to do this project, right? Right, yeah. Right, so New Hampshire has different tax laws and their zoning is different. And so, you know, we don't have TDR. We've looked at it, you know, so there's like a receiving zone where you can put density in the sending zone where you reduce your density. And then there's gonna be some payments made. On Amherst, you know, we have additional lot area per unit, right? So depending on what zone you're in, you might have to have a minimum of say an acre and then you need so many square feet to put an additional unit. So to do 44 units, you might actually end up needing so many acres because that's how the zoning works. We don't have the ability to densify it through TDR. So, you know, in some areas, we could probably get that density and others that wouldn't, we couldn't get there, right? So 44 units on seven acres in some areas, but probably most of town that wouldn't be allowed, you know, it's questionable. I would be interested though too in looking at some of the other areas of the country, you know, that have allowed cottage clusters. So, you know, not every town in New Hampshire has a TDR program. I think Dover is, you know, certainly unique and, you know, in that way, but, you know, out in Washington state, you know, where they've gotten some of these, you know, a lot of their clusters approved, you know, they've just included cottage ordinances. And so, you know, with a concern about again, how is this gonna fit into the neighborhood and what is the density? So they said it, you know, you know, included, you know, the ordinance went through, again, what is the density that could be allowed? I mean, they detailed all the way down to what are the overhangs gonna look like, you know, or how deep they're gonna be so they can get, again, you know, how we make sure that we're controlling what the neighborhood feeling is going to be. But, you know, I think just looking at it and saying, well, you know, zoning, yes, it was always, it's always, you know, as long as we know it's always been done this way, but why? So what could we do? You know, look at, you know, when I look at building code, for example, we always go back to what is the intent? What are we trying to achieve? And how can we, you know, how can we evolve this? So this is wonderful. And we're running a little short on time, but I want to make sure that some of the attendees can have their questions answered or comments made. Kathy Shearan's had her hand up for a while. So if we can start with Kathy and then go to Shalini, and I'm sorry if I mispronounced your name, and then Grover, and then we'll move on. I think you can, can you hear me okay? Yeah, thank you, Maggie. That was great. I had a question on scale. You had seven acres, but you said you built on about half of it. If you had only had two acres to build on, and so you couldn't get 44 units on it, does the economics of what you've did work if you have to scale it down? So that's a question just on, you know, that it seems like part of what you get is you get your crew out there and they can build a whole bunch of houses, bring a lot of lumber, and then go bing, bing, bing, bing, and you find it. And then you talked about your, didn't take much of a fee, your husband didn't take much of a fee as a contractor, you avoided the 13, if you'd had to pay the 13,000 time 44, I got another half million dollars on the cost of it. You know, so there was some costs. So, so just on that scale, and then my other question is, you as the owners can restrict who you take as renters, is that correct? So if, if you were approached by students as opposed to workers, you could say, no, we're actually trying to rent to teachers or firefighters, et cetera. I mean, can you do that because of, because you own the property and you can select, these units would be quickly snapped up in air moist. By us. We have to see students out. We have to keep them out. No, I'm just, well, I'm asking because I think because they own it and the way they're doing the as a percent of income, because it's not HUD and some of our other affordable housing can say it's for residents, it's not for students, but you, I'm asking us a question. You can do that because you own the property. So the two things, the scale and you're owning it, yeah. So I'll answer the second part first, just cause it's a little more fresh on my mind. We can do that because we didn't accept any state or federal funding. So it doesn't matter that we own it, just a matter where the funding source is coming from. So in this case, it's, we, you know, we employ students or we house other students. So our, you know, at the other apartment building that we do own and that we built, we trade it for approximately 16 hours of work. That's the equivalent of their rent. So we actually had a, you know, someone move up from Orlando. He was a student at Great Bay Community College. She played for their basketball team. He worked 16 hours a week for us in our kitchen. It was awesome. And, you know, that's, you know, that's how he worked, you know, that's the equivalent the rent was for him. So it's not that we turn away students, you know, but keep in mind too, for us, like, you know, when we look at, you know, housing and, you know, and students, you know, one of the biggest issues coming out of school is debt. It's insane, you know? And so what that does to you, you know, throughout your entire life, you're going to pay more an interest a year than you ever do on your actual principal. And so, you know, that can, that can saddle you, you know, and so, and make it difficult for you to ever, you know, hope of buying your own home in the future. So, you know, can units actually, you know, help, you know, reduce the amount of debt that you get into? It's just a question. I don't actually know the answer to that. So we're not against, you know, having students particularly, but we do have the option of controlling, you know, who lives here. Oh, yeah, thank you. So what we are going to do is prioritize our staff at Harmony Homes. And so that's the other part about not accepting any of that federal or state funding is that we're able to prioritize there, but these units in Dover will be available to anybody. And so the other question about economies of scale, if we had a smaller person of land, yes. I mean, ideally it wouldn't have cost as much. So when we take into account all the land costs, soft costs, et cetera, that go into the project, certainly it becomes much more affordable the more units you can fit on the property for sure. So I don't have the exact number about, you know, about what it would be, what would have made it not affordable. These units, you know, the bank won't approve us if they don't cash flow. We just don't need to gouge the cash flow. And that's the, I think is the difference. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Maggie. If we could quickly, Shalini and then Grover quickly asked your questions. I'm sorry, we're running out of time. Yes, thank you so much. And this is so exciting. Thank you for being here. My question sort of related to Kathy's is would this be replicable by other developers given that you're the architect and your husband is the contractor. So that's number one. And then would you be interested in doing something like this in Anast? Well, again, I attended the second part first. So we are pursuing other projects currently in our area. All of our employees, especially on the site and construction teams work, you know, in this direct area. I would certainly be open to consulting and helping, you know, put a design together. But I think at this point, I mean, never say never because five years ago, we didn't think we'd be doing this. But right now, we're happy to see the New Hampshire Seacoast. And then is this replicable? It I think it is. So, yes, we are the DIY side of things. We get this question all the time. The other part that it comes down to as, you know, subsidy, certainly, you know, government programs. We have looked at low income housing tax credits for future projects with New Hampshire housing. And so and the other part, too, is that there are interesting programs that are happening in New Hampshire. There is a fund going through Ever North up in the upper valley, that businesses are putting in funds and then that gets spread out to developments. And then that's how the units are built. So I think there could be a lot of creative, you know, creative ways of getting financing for these projects. Thank you so much. Thank you. Rofer. Hi, thank you. For the record, I'm Grover Wayman Brown, 677 Station Road, as requested by the front. And thank you very much, Grover. And my question for you, Maggie, thanks for your presentation is, do you have a plan for like, resident governance or decision making? Because, you know, you talked about like people with kids running around or community gardens and I have kids and it can get complicated sharing kids' space with other people or even gardens with other people. So I'm curious, I know you're just in the beginning phases, but like, what does that look like for a project like this for? Sure, I totally get it. We we do have plans that each cluster will ask to be a part of the kind of a resident group and so be able to come together and decide, you know, what they're they're interested in. We are hoping that some of that will happen kind of naturally, you know, as you get to know your neighbors, you know, just seeing them outside on their porch, you know, having coffee in the morning, but that is a part of things. Because these are also rentals, I just wanted to bring out one point. We have, you know, thought about the idea of basically using these rental units because they're standalone as essentially training to becoming a homeowner, you know, where, you know, this is your toilet. And if you, you know, flush, you know, kids toys down there, you're going to have to figure out how, you know, be responsible for it. And so, you know, I know that that isn't a common thing, but the same thing with your space around it and dealing with your neighbors. I think that that's something that, you know, we're looking as, you know, we're we're growing people to become homeowners with these. Thank you so much, Maggie. This was really amazing. And what I would ask, if anybody else has any questions, you can send the questions to me or to Carol and then we can send them off to Maggie and hopefully Maggie will help us with some of the answers or you might be hearing from some of the participants tonight directly with regard to the possibility of projects here in Amherst, but we want to thank you and also thank your husband as well for, you know, this is really inspirational and it gives us a lot of food for thought in terms of some of the work that we want to do. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Thank you really for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. OK, time check. We're at eight fifty one and we are committed to ending on time. So I think we have to think very quickly about what's on our agenda that's priority and I'm going to make an executive decision about the CRC joint meeting. I think that's really, really important. So we met with the CRC. The meeting was to focus on what would we want to have a conversation about what would we want to discuss? And so the CRC actually submitted to us a list of questions. They talked to their members and they submitted to us a list of questions, which Carol shared with everyone. So there are a couple of questions. One is what do we think we should be having discussions with them about? And I think we might have to compile that. So what I might ask of everyone is to send those questions to Carol and me or Nate, not to each other. We'll compile it and send it to everybody. But if you can just send it to us, that would be really important. The second question is, which was really important for the CRC and for us as well, and for Nate and Dave, which is what data do we need in order to look at some of the questions we want answered or some of the questions we want to talk about? And much of what we want to talk about is, one, what priorities should we have overall altogether? Who should be responsible for those priorities? Should be a joint responsibility and really understanding who's going to do what so we don't duplicate? How do we support each other in those priorities? So we talked before about priorities. And so this is a real opportunity to work with the CRC. We have overlapping goals and commitments. And so this is a real opportunity for us to work together to think about what are the priorities? How can we maximize the resources that we have? We all have limited resources. The town has limited resources. We have limited resources and the CRC has limited resources. So what can we do and who can do what and how can we support each other? So please, one, send us the questions. Two, send us what data do we think we need or you think we need? And three, now we have the dates. So the date proposed May 4th, May 18th or June 1st. And it would be those are all Thursdays, 6.30 to 9 o'clock. So the CRC is willing to some extent to give up their time and meet with us. And we would meet a half an hour early. That is probably not even enough time to really look at all of the questions we may have and we want to discuss, but we'll have to prioritize what we want to do. So let me just open it up for feedback. And Carol, if you want to add anything, you were all set the meeting. The sooner, the better. May 4th is coming up, right? That's the that's one option. May 4th, OK, maybe maybe we could do a quick straw poll. If Erica just says May 4th and anybody who knows they can make it, raise their hand and do the same thing with the other two. Can we do it? How about the other way around? Who cannot make May 4th? Oh, all right. That's fine. I'm looking who cannot make May 4th. Looks like I'm not seeing anyone. Let me just make sure. Did I lose a leg? Can I just ask a clarifying? Here's. Yes, you may. I'm full of them tonight. Would this be in place of our May 10th meeting? No, I I would say no. But are you saying that it would be difficult for you to make two meetings? Is that it would be difficult? Well, I somehow didn't have the trust meeting on my calendar when I scheduled the next CSSJC meeting, which we usually meet on Wednesdays. But for some reason, we're meeting on Thursday, May 10th next month. So I could make May 4th. But I wouldn't be able to be at the normal meeting, most likely. So I think what we're going to vote on is the May 4th, because I think that's a different. This is this is a joint meeting specifically to focus on how do we have a conversation about what priorities should be around affordable housing? What action? What has actually taken place from the comprehensive housing plan? How much progress has taken place when we think our priorities? And how can we divvy that up and how we can support each other around that? But any other question you want to raise as well? This is I'm just summarizing all the different questions that were submitted to us. So I think we're just voting on May 4th. And let's let's vote. It looks like everybody. It looks like it looks like nobody has an issue with May 4th. So let's propose May 4th. So yeah, Carol, I would just suggest you do the straw poll for the other two in case something comes up to be a problem. So we have a count for each one. And we can pick May 4th as our first choice, if that's the case. But it'd be pretty easy to do this. That's the same question for the other two dates. Absolutely. OK, anyone has cannot make May 18th? Let me just look. Not seeing anybody not being OK. So May 18th could be our second choice. And do we just want to check in about June 1st? OK, it looks like we can make any new meetings. All right, so we'll do May 4th as first choice. May 18th as second and June 1st as third. Go ahead, Ashley. After we voted on May 4th, can I say something? Can we vote on May 4th first? And then I want to say something after that. Well, I think what already. Yes, very. So May 4th is the first choice. May 2nd is the second choice. May 3rd is the third choice in case there's an issue with the CRC members. But it looks like those are the dates that they gave us or shouldn't be a problem. OK, so now can I just say Maggie's presentation is really interesting. And I wonder if it is actually the only project that has a community component, particularly for people 25 to 49 years old. And I think that we need when we talk about our priorities, we should talk about what makes community, what makes it not just an important building, not from a corporation, an actual place people want to live and know each other and create community. What is that? I think we put that on the priority list. OK, so I would just say all of us, if you just have a few minutes, send Carol and me a list of what you think we should be focusing on at that joint meeting, because we want to also share that with the CRC so we can be prepared. And then the other piece, too, is it's really important because May 4th is not going to give Dave and Nate a lot of time for the data that we're going to want. But we have to identify what that date is. So the sooner, the better. So if you can do two things with an email to Carol and me is and if you want to include Nate, please copy him is what are the priorities that you think of or questions you think that we should be discussing and or principles that you think we should use as part of the discussion and then data. All right. Thank you. That's I'm going to pass it to Carol with one minute to go. Um, well, there was something I wanted to bring up as in this kind of what came up, not with 48 hours notice. But I guess the first thing I have to ask is if people would be willing to stay for an extra of five or 10 minutes or something. Is five or 10 more minutes OK with people? Just a show of hands. I got to go. OK. Is it OK with you if we continue without you for a few minutes? OK, thank you, Risha. Thanks for being here. The thing that I the thing I wanted to bring up, I mean, there's some announcements here. They are on the agenda, I think I'll say them out loud if we need to or make sure that Rob, who has the agenda, can put them in the notes. The thing I wanted to raise was the upsettingness of UMass inviting a bunch of students that have no housing. And so that I think that's just totally irresponsible. And there's not much we can do about it. But I would like to see the housing trust at least go on official record with the university as saying we we are upset and we don't approve or approve whatever in the world is the right something that we should say. So that's why I didn't know about it in time to put it on the agenda. Thing that I would like to ask us to do. Comments, please. I'm not sure there's I'm not sure there's nothing we can do about it. I think that engaging with UMass, this is probably a town council town manager level is very important. And I let's not say there's nothing we can do. OK, well, we can at least go on record as being unhappy. And if whatever else we can think of to do, yes, that's great. Nate. Yeah, thanks. You know, a while ago, we have Tony Maroulas and Nancy Buffon, I think, from UMass came to trust meetings. And this might have been before COVID, but we talked about housing. It was when they were starting, I think some of the redevelopment projects in the with the residential buildings. But they seem more than willing to come and meet with the trust. And it could be right there. We invite them again, you know, preface it, what what topics we might discuss, but have that that dialogue. You know, I don't mean to me, it would just be a starting conversation, but just ask, you know, about that in terms of the housing, you know, the impacts it has on the town and just, you know, we at one point, we're asking them about data, you know, what, how many students really are living off campus, what, you know, what, what do they see as some of the concerns there? And so I think opening those conversations again would be really important. Great, great idea, Erica. So I would agree with Nate, but at the same time, I would like to put forth a motion that Carol and I send a letter stating that we are concerned about the impact of not being able to house 900 students. The impact it has on affordable housing here and on housing period. Also the fact that there was research done by it's the higher education newsletter a while back and I couldn't find the article that when you have a housing issue on campus, the majority of students impact are the ones that are most economically strapped, which are often over representative of students of color. And so that's something to also consider. So I would really, really like for us to send a letter to them stating that, yes, we would like to have a conversation, but also that we think that they need to act, they need to do something. Yeah, thank you. That was a motion. So Paul had to stand up, but let me see if there's a second to the motion. I second it. OK, so we now have a motion on the floor and now we can keep talking. Paul. Oops, thank you. So. I think that I think we have a motion on the floor and now we can keep talking. I think that I won't support this motion. I think we don't have enough information to really. I mean, we were basing this on a newspaper article. I think I think that the trust has a very strong position to invite the university in to say, explain this to us. They just, you know, the university sent a letter to the town council tonight, which we can share with you as a public document. Let's try to identify, you know, what, you know, that identifies their enrollment patterns and what they've done on campus and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I think that we would have more force as a trust and and I have a unique role. So that's why I always sometimes will separate from the trust on some things. But I think the trust has a has a strong role to have that conversation. And and I and I would think that we should be thinking about this in terms of our overall strategy for how we're addressing the university. But again, so I won't support the motion, but the trust can do. I think I think you're right in terms of the first I was thinking, is this truly a last, you know, 48 hours, but it did just come up yesterday in terms of evidence and we only meet monthly. So waiting a whole month to respond could be an issue for it. I get that piece. So I think I think it does fit the 48 hour rule. Good. Thank you for at least. Other comments, Allegra. I mean, I I just think back to like last September when students were living at the Econolodge and I think it's an ongoing pattern of over over a moment under housing and I do think it's a concern and I do think it spills out into the community and. I guess another concern that I have is there is a new chancellor. So that's exciting because I think the previous chancellor made a pretty strong statement saying like UMass hasn't impacted the town's housing at all. And I just think that's blatantly false. But I also want to acknowledge what Erica said about the lower income or the students of color being the ones most impacted potentially by not having access to housing. So I think that when we think about affordability, I think that's a reason that we might want to engage in a conversation with the state. Any other any other comments or? Yeah, I mean, there's like that, you know, kind of an emergency situation. But basically, they do this every year, right? I mean, I don't know how long it's been happening, but they enroll more people than they can possibly house. Is that true for several years in a row? I think so. Paul may have. Excuse me. One, I mean, like, that's the thing. Like, what do they do? Well, I would I would like to see and under Paul said that they have gotten information from the university, which we are not privy to right now, but apparently could be because it's a public document, you said. So perhaps that would change my mind about what I think I should do. But so far, I just I don't think. And I don't think that things are mutually exclusive, writing a letter saying, please come talk to us and we are upset to see blah, blah, blah, whatever. And could so we'd really like to hear what you have to say about it. Yeah. Oh, Allegra, do you have your hand up again or still or Paul, you have your hand up again? I do. So yeah, I think if you're going to if the trust would then take this vote, I would suggest that the co-chairs have the discretion to review what the university has put in writing. Their contention is that the housing is not driven by over-enrollment, but by student choices that people want to live on campus. No university houses all of their students. So and I just with this information, it might help you craft your letter if assuming the trust decides to authorize you to send that. Thank you. Is there any more? Well, I would take that sort of as a friendly amendment that if that the motion is that we Eric and I write a letter to the university based on the information that we will get from Paul about what they're saying about what they're doing and that the letter, whatever, also includes sort of, gee, can you come and can we talk with you about this some more? That those two things should be part of it with those sort of, I would call friendly amendments. Is there any further discussion? Well, yeah, I mean, it's not saying that it has to be in the letter, but I'm saying like in the data that Nate eventually is going to tell us at the CRC meeting. Maybe we figure out if possible, if it's even existing, year after year, are people being displaced by wealthy students year after year after year? Do we even know? Like maybe we don't know that, but maybe we should. Probably don't. Maybe we don't know. I mean, it's probably we don't know. Happening. Poor people move away all the time rich students come in. Like, has that ever been discussed about or that's just what happened? We'll just accept it. Paul, do you have your hand up again or still? Nate. Yeah, sorry, I was I rise. The yeah, so the student question, I mean, I think that it can be discussed with UMass a little bit. I don't want to. I think it's a different conversation than what we're having now. So really, it's investors or property owners or developers. Typically, students are not the ones who, say, are trying to rent out a house on their own. They're going through a management company or someone else, right? So, you know, and I just want to be careful that you know, the students need somewhere to live too. And so I don't want to paint them in a bad light, right? So I agree that UMass and other universities are finding that upper classmen, third, fourth year students or older students are preferring to live on campus when before they wouldn't want or they'd want to move off campus. So that's actually having a ripple effect where younger students, newer students are not, you know, they guarantee a certain amount of housing. Most universities do. But then maybe in your second year, it's a 50 50 chance. But now they're finding that, you know, I think it's a trend, not just in UMass that more upper class would like to live on campus, which is then, you know, kids are having students are having to find housing when maybe a year sooner than they would have had otherwise based on lottery and things. And so, you know, I don't I see it as, you know, I just want to make sure we're not paying the students in a bad light because they bring so much to the town and really they need to place to live too. And so, you know, it's a it's a different conversation. Really, I think what we're talking about is if there is under housing issues and there seems to be over-enrollment or, you know, somehow they're getting the matriculation rates wrong, you know, somehow they're more students or somehow matriculating and they're anticipating. I mean, those are the kind of conversations we can have with UMass. And I think those are good discussions. But yeah, I mean, I think a developer or an owner, someone could purchase units and rent to students. They don't have to rent to students. But given the demand, they can change prices, which may force out families or non-students, but it's not. It's not the students fault necessarily, right? So it's not it's not because they're students. You know, it's really just kind of the whole market dynamic in town. It's because they have more money. I mean, I would like to get back to our motion if we can. I mean, this is interesting, but I would still like to get back to our motion if that's possible, the motion which is that Eric and I will write a letter to the university based on incorporating the information we get from Paul and with the goal of hearing from the university, inviting them to a meeting so that we can all talk to them, et cetera, et cetera. The motions have made and seconded and discussed. And unless somebody has something else to say, particularly pertinent to that particular motion. Is there any other? If not, then I am going to ask I'm going to take a vote. Starting with Erica. Yes. Me. Yes. Rob. I'm sorry, what? I'm abstaining. I don't understand. I don't know. I haven't heard the news. That's fine. I wasn't sure I understood what you said. That's fine. Rob abstains. Allegra. Yes. Ashley. Yes. Paul. No. So what do we have? We have three yeses and an abstention. Four yeses and an abstention and a no. That makes it that passes. I believe. Yes. I'm not sure what happens with abstentions and how you count them. I just heard a whole bunch of stuff from town council about it. But anyway. OK, I think. All right. So the motion passes and it's nine, 13. So that's a few more minutes than I asked if we could have. I will ask you all to please send out again the list of the announcements that there's one announcement I don't want to I want to make sure people know about. And that is Wednesday, April 26th at 5 30 Valley CDC community meeting at at Ball Lane about Ball Lane. I think that would be a great thing for us to be able to go to. There's a chap of fair housing symposium, April 24th on Zoom, MHP Housing Institute, June 14th, virtually and June 15th in a particular place that you can find out about if you need to know about it. And the things that are coming up will come up. So I believe that's the announcement so I can think of. Does anyone have any others? Or Nate? Nate, just a just a quick thing. Valley CDC, the the access to the property is not on Ball Lane. They have there's a curb cut in access off Montague Road 63. So, you know, there will be an address change. So it actually is a Montague Road address. Right now it's confusing. So, you know, just for people listening or if they see the flyer, it's really don't go down Ball Lane. There's a if you go a little further north, there's a there's a driveway into the property and that's where you would access that just, you know, just so we're not disturbing the neighbors on Ball Lane. That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Nate. Allegra, I really just had a question that was, are there any updates on new members to the trust? Oh, Erica. Yes. So we had interviews. We had three excellent applicants. We have one vacancy. Paul is in the process of moving that forward. And we're hoping that that vacancy will be filled by our next May meeting. And in June, we will have another vacancy. CID is going to step down. And out of the three, we have another person that will then fill that vacancy. So that is the update. Anything else? If not, is there anyone? Can we adjourn? Yes, I think we have to do this for a certain thing. Thank you very much, everyone, for your attention and everything else. And we'll see you soon. Don't forget to send us things about what we should do with CRC. Have a good night. Thank you. Have a good evening, everyone.