 So, all right, let's go ahead and start the meeting at 6.34. Ooh, we got a little bell. Sorry. Sorry. What's operating? Did you do that every time? Yay! Let's start the meeting. Um. Zach liked it. So, at 6.34, first order of business is public comment. I don't see anyone in the room. And I don't see anyone online who looks like they're from the public. So, um, so we can move to the consent agenda. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? Anyone? Do we approve the consent agenda? Do I have a second? I'll second it. All those in favor? All right. Hi. Any opposed? Okay. Great. Um, second mark, student update, please. All right. So, Zach's going to start us off with the agenda and then we'll alternate from there. Yep. Yeah. So, this is our agenda. We're going to start with a public statement from the representatives, um, then we're going to go to our normal current events at MHS, um, we're going to talk about some feedback, um, that we've gotten over the year but with like a positive spin on it. Um, and then we have our updates and our closing. That is our agenda. Alrighty. So, yeah, just as Zach mentioned, we thought that we would put together a statement regarding recent events. So, I'll go ahead and read that to the public and the school board now. So, the wave of gun violence and associated threats over the past months and years is appalling. It is incredibly frustrating for our community and just our wider nation world to continue for these events and tragedies to continue occurring. And in the wake of these recent events, we think it is crucial that we are conscientious as a community, both on what we notice and how others feel. Our school should not be a target nor a place where anyone feels unsafe. Our school community should not be one where students or staff feel nervous being a part of. And there's nothing funny about so-called jokes. There's nothing funny about anything said that makes others feel uncomfortable. There comes a time when we as a community really have to come forward and recognize what is wrong. And we commend those students and staff who came forward at Montpelier High School over the past week. These are difficult times, and we believe that we really need to start asking ourselves what more can and should we be doing to stop these tragedies from occurring again and again? How much more harm needs to be done before we take action on what we universally condemn? So thank you for listening. Now on to some current events, other current events, I guess, in our community. Yeah. Thank you, Mary, for reading that, and thank you, the board, for listening. Our upcoming events are the MHS concert, which is tomorrow at 7 p.m. And it's a joint concert between orchestra, chorus, and band. Events can be lots of fun, and you should go. And coming up really soon is graduation on June 10th, so our seniors right now are about to leave us for their next steps in life. So it's really exciting and also kind of sad. And then another thing, June 1st, is the beginning of Pride Month across the world, and that Pride Month commemorates LGBTQ plus community and the past and present fight for freedom and equal rights. And here are some different events that are happening in Montpelier that you should also go to because there'll be lots of fun. And then so, as Zach mentioned, we often bring a lot of negative things that we hear to some of the bad news, but we thought as we close this year, we would end it with some of the things that students really appreciated with MHS and our wider community. So at MHS specifically, I was getting a little ahead of myself, but people really appreciated having a morning break. That was a really nice time for people to get a bagel, get some food, just in the cafeteria, or just hang out for a minute before their next classes. So I think that a lot of students at MHS in particular would really love to see that or something similar next year. And then something else that I say, and I'm sure many other students say as they've come through their MRPS experience over the years is that our community is a very welcoming one. And I think that's a really strong part of Montpelier. And then this is something specific for me, but I thought I would give a shout out to my English teacher, DMA. There was one summative recently where we were, our class was doing essays, but me and another student, we thought that it would be interesting to do something different. So what we did was we did a little podcast instead, which I thought was kind of in your spirit, Liddy. But yeah, we thought- If you will give it to me, put it on our social media site, right? I'll send it to you if you want to. I think it's 11 minutes, so it was kind of long. Along with your movie that you made in an MMA class. That was only four minutes. So I'm going to interrupt, Merrick, for a second. Go ahead. And DMA has a film class that they did their first annual film festival, right? It was the first ever, I think. Yeah. First one I've ever been invited to. And students in the class showed their very short videos. And I have to say that Merrick and his peers was quite funny and lovely. And some of them were awesome, and some of them were thought-provoking, and some of them were just funny. So we're working with DMA to get those up on our website as well, because they were awesome. Yeah, I totally agree. I thought that was just so cool, and so different from the normal tests and summits that we really do all the time. So I thought that was really a breath of fresh air. But this was for DMA's other English class that was also available to juniors. And yeah, we did a podcast, and it was just really fun, and a little break from doing traditional essays all the time, which I think me and the other student who did it really liked a lot. And then, yeah, just some other things that I think students across the district, and particularly in the high school, really enjoyed this past year, was having more choices, I think, this year in particular, with some project-based things, such as the film and such as that alternative summits that I just talked about. And also something that I know students really enjoyed was having free lunches, free meals. This was, like, I just know a lot more students were able to get access to school lunches here. And I thought that was really a really positive. And yeah, just all of our teachers, custodial staff, and administrators, we thought that we'd really appreciate them, and we thought we'd give them a shout out in our presentation. So thank all of you, thank you. And yeah, those are some of the things that we talk about this year. And then for our closing and our updates, some updates on our curriculum discussions that we've been having with Mike Berry, we discussed the proficiency system in MHS and how it's implemented right now. And then we're looking into polling graduated seniors to see, just to get feedback from them and see what they wish they learned, what they thought was really useful, a bunch of different stuff to sort of gauge how they felt prepared for college. And then, yeah, looking ahead, we're hoping to, especially next year or the year after, so forth, looking to really help guide future student school board representatives, just, like, in that beginning stages of, like, what should they be doing? How can they engage with their community? And just also, certainly, these presentations that, I think, that future student representatives should also do. Yeah, so just maybe kind of defining that a little bit more for them, and certainly working with the next student representatives to just, like, make sure that they're the best ones that they can be. And also looking ahead, as we close off this year, we're going to consider meeting with Mike Berry and other administrators to think about our curriculum and our instruction next year and beyond. So that was our presentation for today, so thank you all. If you have any questions. One of the slides you had, you only bring bad news. Yeah, I don't, maybe I'm off base, but we don't see that as bad news. We see that as good feedback from the students. At least I appreciate that. I at least don't think that hearing from students and hearing what the pain points are or where you think attention should be given is a bad news. That's all. Thank you for that. I just think that it's certainly nice to also bring us here. I certainly appreciated the thought. I just wanted to point out that you thought that way, we don't at least think that. Does the board have a mechanism for documenting the presentations? Is it just in the recording of the entire thing or the actual files somewhere? They're all, I have a lot of, they should be all up with the board. Board materials each week, that gets archived on our website. Usually we don't get them in the board back in the time. I don't think we have it so far, so I don't know. The animal put them up afterwards. Yeah, okay. Yeah, well I appreciate all the work. Thank you. I really has been a breath of fresh air to just hear that it's not just that you're getting feedback from everybody. So I really appreciate all your work. Thank you. Thank you, Sad. Thank you. Well, I know this has been super helpful. Thank you. Do we have you for one more meeting at least? Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure me and Zach are totally on board to help guide the new administration next year as well, I think that's something we really want to help out with. Great. Excellent. Find the agendas and minutes very easily on the website. Like I see, click a lot of agenda buttons and they come back to the same page that's a school board agendas and minutes. It has meeting videos in 2022, videos for 2021, agendas and docs for 2020, but 2021 isn't there, because I have kind of... Are there school board pages on the website? I mean... Yeah, strangely, I only see meeting videos on there for a long time. Yeah, that must be something. Okay, I can point it out to Anna. I don't think we need to take time with it now. No, I'm sorry. But I can point it out to Anna who runs this stuff. It was a couple of hours ago. Yeah, now we can definitely make that more accessible. Thanks for pointing out that, Britt. All right, the next item, any further questions for America's Act? No. Next item is... Budget proposals. Budget proposals. Do you want to give a brief overview of, and I was explaining the materials about what you're looking for? Yeah, so the... I would recommend to the board to approve a side letter that was in your packet to add two additional days to the MRESSA Employee Negotiate Agreement. MRESSA is our Instructional Assistance. And they... I'll give you just a brief history that there's probably more information than you actually need to make this decision, but it may be helpful. About five or six years ago, MR, before the merger, Montpelier Schools had two days of in-service prior to schools starting. And the way that that worked was one of those days was a school-based day and one of those days was a district-based day, where the superintendent got on stage and did a raw speech and all that kind of stuff to welcome people back and had a breakfast and all of that kind of thing. Two days is not enough time for a before-school in-service, so we changed the calendar, so we moved more in-service days to the beginning of the year for teachers. So now we have four. Well, we have three, with one of them being a parent conference, to make it four prior to the school year. And when that change happened, there was the la-la day with everybody here in one place having breakfast together and with me on stage talking to people. Typically happens on the first day that everybody comes back and then there were three more days after that. And instructional assistants are assigned to be here for one of those. So we made the executive decision to have them come on the day that was most beneficial to them, which would be when they're talking about students without APs and making plans with classroom teachers talking about students because that's their primary job responsibility. However, that created a situation where instructional assistants were not feeling included in our district-wide climate because they weren't part of the district-wide, what they perceive as to be a celebration in the beginning of the year. So the only real way to fix that is to add more days into their negotiated agreement. So through several conversations with the union leadership and myself, we came to this side letter to ask for two additional days. The monetary amount that it would cost the district to do this is about $12,000 and it would be considerable goodwill as well in order for this to happen. So the instructional assistants will be able to come to that day where we're celebrating coming back together and be a part of the conversations about kids that are important to their work and being successful in their work. So my recommendation is to approve that side letter to a cost of approximately $12,000 extra that was not accounted for in the budget process for FY23. So it would be in addition to the budgetary amount for that and I think it would be very well-spent. Amanda? Is that from the $12,000? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on if we can hire all the IA's or not, which we haven't been able to in three years' time, so maybe, maybe not. If we are fully staffed, then yes, it would come out of fund balance. If we are not fully staffed, then it would, it's just part of the salary line that we typically don't overspend on anyway. Okay. The other question? Joe? Sorry. Oh, sorry. Not going. I was just wondering if it looks like their representative president would be able to sign on their behalf. Are you expecting any pushback from? No, so the process how these kind of things go is that it's the union president's responsibility to go get feelings from the membership, which Joyce and Cory did. And there were some who were like, no, we don't want to start work earlier. But the vast majority of them said, yes, we want to do that. There's a lot of misunderstanding as to why they weren't there on that day, you know? So we can't get around the contracted issues. Like, they are only contracted to work a certain amount of days. Right? And so that, so add-in days alleviates that for them. So I think the large majority of them wish to be there and, according to Joyce and Cory, we have approximately 30 IAs across the district. How kept did you want to? I was just wondering if you, and if you don't have the answer, okay, but do you know last few years the salary line has come consistently under? Yes. Do you know how much? I don't know how much exactly, but I do know it's been under because we haven't been fully staffed. Yeah, that's what I figured, since COVID, it's probably going to be in town. But before COVID, has it been lower? Well, that was only one year of my 10 years. So I believe my first year, we were fully staffed, but I'm not positive. I don't remember being a struggle for coverage that year. Well, is that true? Well, who knows? I mean, it was four years ago. Who knows? Yeah, it was true that only one year of your tenure has been non-COVID. That's crazy. All right. Other questions? So this is for the beginning of next year. Is it going to be rolled into the budget for a year after that? Yeah, that's a really good question, Seiji. So typically, what happens with side letters? Next year is a negotiation year for this particular union. So typically what happens with side letters is the parties have already agreed on that language for the contract. So therefore, it just gets rolled into the next year's contract, and it will get you rolled into next year's budget. So it will just become, if you approve a side letter, then it just basically becomes part of the contract, unless it specifically says this is only for this school year, which this does not. Yes, you may make a motion. Please do. I make a motion to approve the side letter. The side letter? For the additional days to the actual additional days to the instructional assistant. You have a second? I'll second it. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great. Passes. All right. I'll have Anna send that to you to sign. Sure. Perfect. I'm going to use to sign it. The second piece on there is we've been, as the board is well aware, that we've had some substitute teacher shortages across this school year. And we, like many other districts, are recommending the hire of some permanent substitute teachers for the 2022-2023 school year. So I wrote up a recommendation for you that was in your board pocket. I'm happy to answer any questions about that. The skinny is basically that we would be looking to hire. We may not be able to hire, but we would be looking to hire for permanent substitute teachers, technically one for each school. However, if there's not a need for a substitute, let's say in Union Elementary School, who has quite a bit of subs and doesn't typically have a sub shortage, that that person would either pick up work that needs to be done at Union because there's always something that needs to be done at a school or if there's a greater need in a different school building than at MSMS, let's say, then that makes two subs available at MSMS for coverage purposes. It's just something that the principals can rely on. Currently, the principals are spending 45 minutes to an hour each day. That's how they start their day, finding coverage for their classrooms. So it would give them back that time. We'd have people we can rely on. We would write and it would be under an MOU, not under one of our Union contracts, but under a memorandum of understanding that would provide health care because we would have to under the ACA law. And it would also give them sick benefits and all that kind of stuff. We made the salary range based on what we pay a typical substitute teacher for a day if they have no experience or no licensure. So that starts at $125 a day, so we just basically multiply it by 178 student days to get the low end. And then the high end is what we pay a long term substitute who does have to be licensed by law to cover like a family leave or something like that. That's how we got the high end. So we made a range for ourselves so we could base the salary that we offer on experience with substitution or teaching in general or experience in our district as well as licensure status. So we kind of had that freedom and wiggle room. So the high number, while it's kind of eye-popping at $166,000 or something like that, it wouldn't be $166,000. That's just the high end. If we got four permanent substitutes, all who are licensed and have experience teaching, that would be, which is kind of a wish list. That's just the end range. We don't expect that. We don't generally use our entire budgeted line for substitutes, which is around $131,000. We certainly haven't this year, although teachers are covering for other teachers so that comes out of the substitute budget right now. So our plan would be that we'd hire, see what we are going to pay them based on licensure status and experience, pay out, use the substitute line first. And when that gets used up or when that gets zeroed out, then we would use the fund balance in order to cover the rest of the balance. We can't anticipate how much that might be because this is so new to us. So it would definitely be a pilot year for the system. But we think it may, even if we can get two, it would alleviate some of the burden that we have right now in finding guest teachers for our classrooms. But I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have for that recommendation that was in the board packet. Two, the first one is, how often are you able to foresee need so that it's not like, so that the principal has an idea what the need might look like next week or is it usually like a day of thing? Yes, Anne. Yes, Anne. So it's in the Ready Sub. We contract with Ready Sub, which is a software company. And so I can go on and see the absences that are in the system right now for each day next week. But who knows when your kiddos gets, as you well know, with small twins, right? Your kids could get sick at four in the morning and you've got to figure it out. But so does it seem like these roles might be into some of the, these are the high priority needs of those principals that we can see are coming up in a way that allows that flexibility. Yeah. If you have something that you can count on, it knows your building, knows your culture. Maybe you want to prioritize where you want to put them. And if that is a possibility, that seems very good. We could certainly do that. I think I would leave it up to the principals to make their best discretion as to how to do it. Typically the classrooms, particularly at MHS and UES, classroom substitutes that are, the substitutes that are in there, the job openings that are in Ready Sub for a week or two in advance, those in a typical year get picked up, where there's not a whole lot of trouble with substitutions. The challenges come more for RBS and MSMS. MSMS, we have very few subs for our middle schoolers. That kind of leads into the second question is, the possibility of moving between buildings, is that something that is in any contract right now, as far as going as far as RBS, is there any precedent for any staff going to or from RBS? Yes. A little bit. Yes, there is. We moved an instructional assistant from Union Elementary School to RBS a couple of years ago. It's an involuntary transfer. So in our contracts, we have language around involuntary transfers or just transfers in general. Because being such a small school, one fourth of this, while I want there to be more people in there to provide the highest quality education possible, I also recognize that having that availability across the district, not necessarily just tacked to a building, is more valuable to the district. Yeah, and quite, I put in for four because it's my wish list, right? So you all can say, no, we'll go for two or go for three and that's fine. I don't think we'll be able to hire four. I think that's wishful thinking right now. And so if we can hire two, then we will make a judgment call as to where those two need to go. It might be that they report to central office every morning and we send them out to the place that it has the most need. But this is so new in a pilot that I'm not positive as to the answers right now. Yeah. I think it's a great idea and a good example of, you know, trying something that we've never done before to address the challenges that you're facing. And I'll say I really liked the idea of them being sort of assigned to a school because it felt like they could really get into the school culture and really know their fellow teachers and the students. But I also understand that really the purpose of this is to fill the gaps. So I understand why you would maybe have somebody be between schools. I'm pretty surprised that the substitute line and the budget is only $131,000 for a whole year. Do we usually not spend all that? We usually don't have a challenge with substance. Like in even the first two years, so the first year and a half when it wasn't covered, we didn't have a challenge with substitutes. We had plenty of substitutes. Right, right. A mainstream middle school is the one that was always like, but we never had people covering each other's classrooms like this is new now. But then we would think that we would spend all that money because we would have, we would be paying the subs that we'd be. But teachers may not take all their time either. Yeah. I think that's one of the impetuses for the challenge this year is that because things like surgeries and doctor's appointments and that was all put off for a year and a half. And so people could now get into those things. We had more surgeries this year than I think we've ever had in the past four years but because I think people were told to hold off and then it got scheduled this year. So I think this year may be an anomaly, but I'm not willing to take that bet and go through this again next year if we can try to alleviate it a little bit. So what was the rest or the thinking behind not having this be a teacher position that is in the contract? Because we don't have any language in the contract that goes with this. So we talked about it being adding on to our instructional assistance staff. And then we decided, you know, Heather Michaud and I who's our human resources coordinator think it's just the easiest and cleanest to have 178 days because then you're not worried about like, let's say that the need is at MSMS. We don't even need an MHS. We don't even need it US and we don't even need it RBS. Then I don't need to go through the emergency reassignment role that I would have to if it was part of the teacher contract. Oh, I see. But we just say you're, you know, if it's clear in the MOU that if there's a need in another building and not a need in the building you're assigned to, you will move to it. Like they're signing that knowing, knowing that expectation. It just makes it a little bit cleaner and a little bit less hurdles to jump through. Yeah. You're saying they'll have this salary somewhere in that range, health benefits and paid time off. Are there any other benefits that teachers get that we should consider offering to them to have it be like they get dental too. They get dental health, the vision. They get access to all of that kind of piece in the paid time off. I think those are the biggies that people would look for. And then if we did actually happen to get for at the top of the, you know, market or whatever lost health insurance actually would be more than that. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. But that's highly unlikely. Right. That's what you're saying. Yes. And then I just had one other question and then I'll be done, which is professional development. Would they be able to participate in those days with teachers? So this is really just. This is just 178 student days. So anybody who works with us, who works, who doesn't work like those days, we'd never say, no, you can't come. We, there would just be an agreement that you're not being paid for those that time. There isn't an expectation for you to come to those times, which you're more than welcome to join us. Yeah. Could we include that? Like how many more days would that be if we included that and paid them for it? Teachers work 185 days. So seven. 188 days, sorry. Oh, so 10 more days. Yeah. I would be willing to have that be part of the MOU and encourage them to join in that professional development by paying them for showing up, because the one reason that's coming to mind is that we, you know, in sort of little anecdotal spaces, your stories that we've been hearing, it's felt like it's pretty much everybody in the school building who could use whatever professional development teachers are getting. I mean, maybe not like instructional, but when I'm thinking more about the social, emotional, and behavioral stuff that, you know, I've heard like, it would be great if our cafeteria workers could get that. And I know that's not what we're talking about here, but if we're talking about somebody who's gonna be in a classroom every single day, it feels really useful that they would offer that as a part of the MOU. I'd say that is the purview of the board to decide on. Yeah. Armada? Sort of agree with me around that. I would love to see that especially because there are permanent positions. I would also love to have the dream of four substitutes, each building because of the culture and like the need you jump from thing to thing. If you know the building well and you know the staff. So I really, I wonder if there's also an opportunity to think like long term, like how we, in terms of like thinking of teaching shortages for the future, like how we could think about a path for these substitute teachers to like look at opportunities to get licensed in the case that we were to get like the bottom line or if there is opportunities for, you know, would there be opportunities for people already in staff that want to go into those positions since they offer healthcare and like, I don't know if like everybody gets healthcare. So, okay. So like if there was like that transition from like food staff to the substitute position, just like thinking of all the opportunities we could get. And I think it's great. I really will support four positions plus in addition to the days for professional development for them to be able to get paid for that. That has been kind of like a disparity of what we should think about. Yeah, I also agree with you and Amanda. I think that just based on everything that me and Zach have put over the past few months with students, I think it would be really great to encourage that professional development among anyone that is going to be teaching in the classroom, I think. Yeah, I agree with what's been said. I think the extra 10 days would be good to make it feel like one team as opposed to two different teams. Almost like just including the IAs for the extra two days and sort of the same thinking. And I happen to be speaking about this with a high school teacher over the weekend. And we said, why don't we have permanent subs? That's a great idea. So, we looked at your talk in my very end and then I read your email. We can go back to the teacher and be like, Done, I got to talk to you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So I mean, my question was incredible, which is who would apply for this position and are there gonna people all? Because I know that, you know, it's a good market for teacher. So it seems like a lot of aspiring teachers are probably gonna get actual teacher positions and the salary might be somewhat low given the time commitment for, say, a semi-retired teacher who might wanna come back for a pre-tune supplement income. Yeah, I think there's two audiences. There's one audience who I just, you know, a person who I, we have a common friend, sent me her resume today who wants to get into teaching but doesn't have any of the licensure education. Like she's been an outdoor educator, right? She works for outward bound or something like that. And we've actually had a few of those who technically in Vermont standards are not qualified for a license, right? But they've taught in a different scenario and so this gives them experience and if they're on a year-long salary, they could use it for their experience and transfer review kind of thing. So there's one audience, small, but it's there, it is there. And then the other is people like, there is one person in our community who's a phenomenal sub, he was an IA for us, doesn't wanna be an IA, he doesn't wanna be attached to a kid, he doesn't want that type of responsibility and didn't enjoy that work specifically. However, he has said to me, if you just had a permanent sub, I'd do that. And he happens to, this particular person has to be an artist and has other side gigs kind of thing and a substitute has very low demand, right? Except for your time every day. Yeah, exactly. And you can attack your side gig in creative ways outside of that. So I think there could be, I mean, I could just be, you know, shooting rainbows, glitter and unicorns at you right now, but there could be an audience for that based on the side gig economy and where we are right now. Yeah, no, that makes total sense and we're not seeking 30 people, we're seeking. Right, right. Ideally four, yeah. Right, and even some of the subs still, right? Like that might want to like get into that 730. There are some parents who sub for us at UES in particular who sub for us every day. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what they do. And so this might give them more permanency in that position and the opportunity for healthcare. I know if you're in the gig economy, the opportunity for healthcare is probably pretty big. You're the chance at healthcare. So I think there is a small chance that we are competing with that. I applied to different districts. So we have permanent subs. You're looking for a career change? I'm always looking for a change. So if they're not on the, they're going to be subs and potentially look at becoming teachers and get licensure at some point or whatever. Would that create, is there any worry to think that they're not going to be in the contract, not going to be covered by the union and they're just off their own. So that kind of creates that, that creates an intention because they're not on contract and they're not covered by those union protections and all that stuff because they're just... I don't think the two around future career goals. Okay. I don't think there's any conflict there. Okay. For at least I can't see any. I can see only benefits there because they can use that experience as being hired by a school district and being in a school building every day as part of the review process for their experience, which is something that licensing takes into a consideration. Would the union think otherwise? No, I've talked to the union about that and they're all for it. Okay. They're like, yep, go for it. That as many as you can. And the financial side of it, you're taking the current rate and giving the salary, but then I think Mia mentioned that the health benefits and any other benefits are on top of it. So that's, subs don't get any of that. So that's an additional thing that you would need to cover. Right, right, right. That's not a small piece either, right? It's not a small piece. No, you're right. And so I think that the finding that amount that was quoted in the recommendation that I gave the board, the 160 something, that would probably be what we actually average paying overall with the benefits packages on top. So if we hire somebody who is at, doesn't have licensure and just want, let's say a gig worker, right? Who has no experience subbing for us, but wants this and wants the healthcare, then they're getting the low end of the pay with the benefits on top of it, right? So it's still within the range. I think it will all fall within the range. It may be more than that if we get lucky. Yeah. Is it 160 is the number you gave us 160 so is it 130 already budgeted? And now we're talking about only 30 from the fund. No, 130 is budgeted for subs next year without any kind of permanent sub. Okay. Oh, I see. So this is 160 additional. Potentially. Okay. Right, because we're likely gonna spend more money than this 160 on subs. Right, because the permanent sub, and even if we got one for every school, wouldn't cover every sub respond, right? Yeah. Wouldn't fill every substitute position. Right. Other than a given day. Especially on a Friday. Potentially that one sub would go down because of we get lucky and we get three permanent subs. So that would. That 130 would go down. Yeah, we would spend that faster than we typically do. Yeah, yeah. We spend that first, and then we would start kicking into the fund balance. Yeah, but you're not thinking it's gonna be 290. No. No. It's gonna be south of that, because that 130 would go down. Right. Right, I think it will be south of the 160. Okay. Any other questions? What would you like, do you need a motion? Yeah, yeah. It's a significant amount of money, so the board would have to approve this. Yeah, and also if we wanna add 10 days, you have to approve 10 days. And my guess is, I would suggest we give Libby the option of offering, while the offering it, but not mandating it, because I could see someone who's got a gig saying no, I'd rather take those 10 days and work on my art. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm sorry. I would just say let's have it be the expectation. You know, that this is what, right here we're saying a guarantee of 178 days. We would just say a guarantee of 188 days. This is the work. This is the work. You're a teacher in our building, all year long, this is the work. If you added on days, I would take out two of them, because two of them are parent conference days. Okay. Yeah, I mean, my only thought is if it's a struggle to get, I would rather have substitute coverage that the school needs than knock out a couple of candidates and be in a situation like we are now, because I'm just not sure every person in the category that she said is gonna be interested in this is going to wanna sit through trainings. They may or they may not, but if it's not a... We can put a stipulation that should you wish to partake in service professional development days, you'll be paid for them. Yeah. It was like Jill was... Jill. Yeah, that might maybe feel better, because I'd hate to defeat the purpose in part, which is to make sure that classrooms are covered so the teachers can take advantage of professional development. Sounds like that was one of the many reasons why we need substitutes. So I'd hate to defeat that purpose by requiring those same folks who are gonna cover those classes to go to those trainings. But I love the philosophy and I like that idea of having it be an option. Amanda? But those PD days that are in there are not... Is just if I wanna take some other PD opportunities, correct? Like not for the district's PD days. Right, so what I understand you're asking for is for instance, the Martin Luther King day where we are working on, all the teachers are together, working on sort of justice and equity work and that kind of stuff. That we would want any employee to be there. Yeah, so I think it's like based on, following what Merrick said, it's like it's kind of developing that culture of like we're here together, especially like those specific trainings that have to do with some of the frameworks of the district around, whether it's equity, reserve, justice, students with disabilities, whether it's all of this, that if you're a sub, you are having that same culture in your classroom for one day. Like you kind of know what those frameworks are, which is what you use kind of in those PD days that are district wide. So they have at least the framework for that. So I don't think it should be an option. I think it should be part of. Yeah, but if you don't have these permanent subs and you're getting subs in who are just getting called randomly so you don't have that anyways, right? You have a permanent sub in each of the school buildings. Yeah, but the way they're doing subs right now, you don't have subs that are going to professional development trainings. But that's not, but we have a permanent person that's in the building doing random things, covering classrooms or things that they don't, yeah. So. I hear the concern, Jim. I just wonder how much anybody who would be speaking a job, like how much they would actually, you know, if what we put in the job description or whatever it is, 186 days, they probably are not listening to this debate we're having right now and going, oh, well it could have been 178. So now I'm not going to apply. I don't know. It just feels like it doesn't seem like too much of a reason to, I don't want to be like, I'm not worried about it. It is a job seekers market right now. That is true. And it's kind of like somebody who's attracted to this position in the first place is somebody who's interested in working in a school and we're just simply saying as the employer in this district, this is what the expectation is for working in our schools. I'm all in favor of employers setting the expectation that we should set. So. I don't know, maybe my fault is that. Oh, sorry, Zach. Sorry. Sorry, Zach. No, it's fine. Yeah, I would just sort of affirm like what Mia and Amanda have been saying as a lot of other people have mentioned. Like I know from a lot of personal experience like with substitute teachers that there are certain issues that they're not trained on or just certain like norms that they're not aware of. And that can be really uncomfortable as like as a student. And I'm sure they could learn that within time within being in the building, but I think it would be a lot more comfortable for students if that was already a baseline. And if it's like eight extra days, I don't, I'm not, I'm not a like a job market expert, but I think that I think that if they're already wanting to be in the building, I don't think like eight days is going to be a lot more stress or setback. I hear everyone, I just really want to reiterate at the point that getting substitutes is really hard. It's a big problem. It's a hurdle. This is a job that has a, I think a slim demographic that's going to be interested. And a lot of those people are going to have flexibility and even in your own job, 10 extra days off can make a difference if this is a, do I do this or do I not do this thing? I'm kind of confused about how this would work if it's a permanent position, it's a salary position or it's not an hourly position, right? Yeah, so it would be salary. If it's a salary position, it would have a salary in the case of $40,000, it's $225 per day calculation with 178 and now a certain if you're saying, oh, you can come 180 days, but we will pay you $42,000 for those, you know, $2,250 extra. So $42,250 will pay, but you don't have to come. I'm confused about that if we're giving them the option. Well, no, I think what I'm saying is I would rather it not be an option. That's my point. So now we'll offer say $42,000 and say you have to show up for these 180 days. Right, but let me say 186, because $2,800. 186, I mean the calculation would change slightly, but the point is that we are now, we'll say that, hey, we'll pay you more, but we need those six days more, eight days more from you. That's the calculation, yeah. That's what I'm advocating for. Okay, so the optional piece is how I was confused about it. How would we say that we'll pay you more and you don't have to show up for these if you don't want to? No, so how at work is they fill out a time sheet? So yes, it's salary, like we're guaranteeing that much amount of money. However, you have to, like with any kind of MOU like this, you'd have to track their days. Yeah. Right, and so. But it's not going to be the optional, we can't say that, oh, for some people. No, we were to make it, if we were to make it 184 days, let's say, and they had 10 sick days and two personal days, I'm just throwing numbers out, I'm spit-falling right now. Then they didn't want to come to Martin Luther King, Jr. in service, then they would have to take a sick day. They would have to use their leave time not to come to that day. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, yeah. That's what I was getting, it doesn't become the. Yeah, and what I'm suggesting is that you give them the option of attending those days, but then add it as like a per diem on top of it. So they get paid for the 176 and then if you wanted to do any extra days, they could get paid per diem for that. And by reasoning is, I mean, I agree with everything everyone has said, I just feel that this is a real need and when you make the verbal hire, you make the verbal hire. I will make my last objection to that is like that, it's when it comes to culture building and I tell you the experience of working with schools where there is a different tiers of people saying, well, I'm not gonna get paid and we have this conversation with some of, when I was part of the district equity committee and I was supporting and helping build the inservice date, it was like there was like that, that people were feeling like they were not included because they were not gonna get paid and there was no turnaround, right? Like, and so like there was not for the IAS. So that is changing, but then like, you wanna include, like if they're permanent for a year, then you wanna make them part of the culture. So that's, I think that it is important to give more, like, yeah, you're part of this, even if you're not licensed. Well, if you're an every, you know, and now and then substitute now, you're taking a permanent subposition, I don't, that seems an awful lot making someone part of the culture in itself. As opposed to these things are available and they're haphazard, this is a guaranteed time. Personally, I like the idea of giving people choices, not deciding for them what's best. Even though I understand in the long run, it may be the best thing for the district. It also feels like telling people what's best for them. I like the idea of the choice, but. Yeah? I think it is a big thing to have somebody who's a permanent subperson be integrated into the culture. And so it feels like the best one of the way, one of the best ways to support them is to have them be, participate in something like a professional development day. And the, you know, the rah-rah day where they get to have breakfast with everybody and those kinds of things. And to me, it doesn't come down, it's not so much alike, well, we know what's best for you, but more just like we, as a district, are acknowledging things that we've heard from students and from other teachers and things about how big of a deal this is, the culture and the being able to wrap around every single student with the support that they need around social, emotional, and behavioral learning. And that because of that, we're setting this expectation for anybody who's going to be a full-time staff member in our district because we want, not only do we, and we'll provide you that support, that it's an expectation and it's a support to be part of these professional development days. I'll just make one final point. Teachers right now are stressed because they don't have subs, they're covering, it's hard, it's hard on teachers, it's hard on principals, it's hard on administrators. I think anything we do to make it harder to bring subs into the building is not supporting our teachers. Even if we can make a good argument, which I think people have, that there's cultural reasons to do it, I think we should make it as easy as possible to hire subs next year. And that's why I think making it as flexible an option as we can makes sense. But if the board disagrees, the board disagrees. I think on the spot, but I'm genuinely curious, like I feel like a lot of people would see that as a plus, right? Because that's something they could put on their resumes if they participate in these things. I'm wondering if that's actually like a, if we did consider that, if that would actually be a draw for some people. If I had my druthers, I'd make it optional. I'd say, you know, we'll be paid for in-service trainings that you attend. And maybe all of them would, we don't know. Yeah. And I'm gonna say we should exclude anyone. I think we should just make it flexible so we have a higher pool so we can fill a very pressing need to support our teachers and administrators. So the phrase, the guarantee of 178 doesn't say a maximum. It says at a minimum, basically. Exactly. Okay. Well, and that's not the MOU that was just written for the board. That's not the actual MOU. It's very official. It's quite official. I try. That's very helpful. And I've said this before, when I was at the agency of education, I did get to see a few schools that had a full-time sub and they were, they were the clutch. Everyone knew them. They knew the kids. They knew the staff. They kind of knew the style of the different teachers. So I think this is a fantastic model to try and I am hoping a place like Montpelier-Roxbury will draw some really great people because it's kind of a neat idea. You know, if you're out of school and still trying to figure out where you wanna go or what subject you wanna teach or what age this is another great opportunity. So I think offering it as an option is great because I think the vast majority of not everyone would probably take advantage of it, especially if they're gonna get paid to go. Can you put a language in there that, you know, this is where it is and we highly recommend there are something encourage you to attend the interview stage and all that and you'll get paid per the end for those, something like that. So it's, yeah, your base salary is this and you can make more, a little bit more and we encourage you to do that to attend that. We can certainly do that. I have a practical question. So you have a sub in a classroom that is having some conflicts. How are they, and this is a permanent sub that knows the case, knows the classroom. Like how are they being trained around some of all these overarching goals and that the district has? Um, that's not a simple question to answer because we don't have them currently. I also think that putting a whole lot of stock in one day of professional development or even six days of professional development, which will not be all the same, they will be on different topics, is putting way too much stock in those. So that's something. If we were to hire permanent subs and they were having trouble in the classroom, most likely the trouble would be around classroom management and the assistant principal and the principal would be working with them to help them with routines and coach them through it or the instructional coaches that we now have coming on board would be working with them around routines. The PLC, the professional learning communities, the first grade team would wrap their arms around the person to help with classroom management and we'd coach them through that. And going back to what I believe Brett said, one of the two, we'd probably be pretty particular as to which classrooms that sub would go into if they were really struggling with things like classroom management. But I do want to state that going to one day of in-service on restorative justice or something is not going to ingratiate them into the, like that takes lots of time over a course of years. I'm a little on the fence on this. On one side I feel like if I was in charge I would force everybody to go there and put them in the room. But then I started thinking about my own job and there's plenty of meetings I wish I could just skip. And if you're not going to be a willing participant and go there and engage and actually be present, then why not just leave and have that option at? Not everyone's going to really get things from these in-services. I would like to think that they would but some people might just check out. Some people might just go there just to punch their card. And the people that choose and opt in to go there are going to be the ones that are going to perhaps float to the top and be the better employees and be more engaging. And the ones that don't, not that it's a mark against them, but that's just their attitude. They don't want to go there and then why, you know, if they're adults, you know, why force them to go there and especially if it's going to be a hindrance in carrying a good sub, which is the most important thing in this part process, right? I'm also looking at that idea of that extra support that people are getting as a permanent sub that they, if they were, if they were a current status quo sub today, sub today, as a permanent sub, that is a lot of support and a lot of opportunity to grow and whatever. And it is a pilot and maybe we ask, if we get them or we ask all the subs what they think about this idea at the end of the pilot year or something like that and reconsider what it looks like if it becomes something that's folded into the budget, say, and not just a memorandum of understanding. That's a good question. If this is successful, then this could theoretically become part of a future contract or budget cycle or knowing that it's hard to predict, but if this is a successful model and we find people to do it, these are a lot of ifs, then this could be part of how the district operates, that this is like a regular setup. I think that's the other part that's just making me, I want to make sure we're not creating a separate system that might have any more inequities than it already does to the contract because maybe at some point if it has more benefit than someone who's under contract, I don't want to lose somebody and have them take this. I don't know if that would happen, but... No, we talked about that. Our instructional assistants in particular, right? But we did that math in the last negotiating cycle with the instructional assistants because in that cycle we added language around substitution and so they get additional money on top of their typical paycheck if they're asked to cover a class, if instructional assistants... So it doesn't work out even, you know what I mean? Like this is not going to... It could draw an instructional assistant who may not want to be an instructional assistant anymore. I'm not saying that, but what I'm saying is it's not monetarily better or worse than being an instructional assistant. Yes. To a true Libby's recommendation for the permanent substitutes and change the language around days of work to be a guarantee of 186 days of paid work with the expectation that they attend in service. I second that. Discussion? Do you have a sense of the financial difference? Yeah, I can figure it out already. I watched him. It's going to be... The I would be around 10,000 hours more. Okay. I would make the recommendation that it may not be 186 days but that it would be less than that because some of those days are working with, you know, financial educators working with classrooms. Some of the in-service days are not professional development. I got you. It's very specific teacher collaboration about very specific children that this position would not be a part of the discussion. So if you think about in-service days, it's probably... You know, you could think about it from an IA perspective. They have three additional days now. Now that we've... They're four additional days to their contract. And so maybe it's 182 days instead. So that takes out the parent conferences. It takes out the, you know, Jim and I talking about very specific kids. You know, it takes out those days but there is still days of opportunity there. In addition, I think the most thing that the board members who have spoken so far in favor of adding on days are mostly concerned with equity, restorative justice practices, those kind of things. That professional development with the exception of MLK Day, that is the one day that we have promised to focus on that in addition to the half days. So if somebody is a substitute in our school district and we're paying them for a day, then they are staying for that full day. So that eliminates... That's not an in-service day. That is a full day of work for teachers and substitutes. So I would recommend that it's not that full-time because it's putting way too much on us as to exactly what happened. I mean, there's some of that time during in-service that teachers are putting their rooms together. You know, that's not a... permanent subjects don't need to be there for that. You don't need to pay them for that. So you're saying the adjustment would be 182. 182, 182. So I'm good with amending it so that it's not actually a number of flexibility of meeting what you just described and simply saying a guarantee of 178 days of paid work including the expectation that they intend... attend in-service. The professional development dates. Professional development, yeah. Yeah. So what we're really talking about here is a difference of maybe two or four days. Four at the most. So it's 182 instead of 178. Which, sorry, America, I just want to point out, is also reducing potentially the height of the hurdle that Jim is concerned about. So when you say expectation, yes. My motion is that it is not optional. I second that. Further discussion? One more question. So if we approve this right now as is it's required to do the in-service and the perfect candidate comes along and applies interviews and has a really compelling reason to not attend the in-service, is there any wiggle room there as far as negotiations or is it just completely off? Not with the current motion, but... Well, our motion, my answer would be you'd have to take your six-time or personal time. Right. Which, any teacher, that's the case for any teacher, if they, right? Yeah. I think that's what we have in this according to this MOU. Yeah. I hope that Mia's motion be amended to make all of the in-service time be at the choice of the candidate. If that's such a motion. Is that a motion? You amend? Or a motion? Amendment to a motion. Oh, it's purely for show. This is purely for show. I'm mad. You amend your own motion? Yeah, I don't know. I think you can amend your own motion. So you would make a secondary motion, I believe. You'd make a separate motion. Yes. Can there be two motions on the table? There can be two motions, and we go one above the other. Can you just vote on one and then... I guess if there are two motions... So, Rhett, say more. It is, I mean, regardless of what I just said, they could say, I'm sorry, I am incredibly busy on Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. I'm taking a leave. I'm taking one of my paid days. Same thing. I mean, they could also get COVID in two weeks and not have an option. So, the motion you proposed, that was not saying a sat-naught day. That was giving Libby the basically authority to say two days, right? Yeah, I took the number out because Libby made the excellent point that they don't need to be there for teacher conferences, they don't need to be there to set up their classrooms. So, we know that it's 178 days because that's the days that the students are in school. And then, plus the expectation of whatever the days that are district-wide professional development days. My second question is, are with their permanent subs, do they have to go to the instructions? I don't know what everybody's doing. I reached out to Julie Reginbold, who's up at Mrs. Schoie Valley and they're just making it student days. They're doing what? Student days. Good. So, are they required there? For student days only. So, 178, or whatever their student day number is. But I didn't reach out to everybody. Is it possible to make a second motion so that there be how does this work? You can amount to your intent to make a second motion and then we'll take a vote and then we'll know your motion is coming if the first vote doesn't pass. Yeah, I'm kind of I'm sorry, we're still discussing I'm kind of leaning towards giving the option. It just feels like it's we will, not only they will have options, but we will have more options and more flexibility than just locking it and connecting it. So, I feel like it could be up to whoever's doing the hiring to communicate how it's going to go and then decide on it, I guess. I don't know, instead of sort of we don't even have a number of days or the sort of concept of professional development doesn't have any clear number of days, especially for this role, we're not sure exactly how they're all going to play out next year. They didn't all play out this year the way they had been planned last year and so it's I don't know, it feels to me there are a lot of unknowns that it just feels like the more unknowns we have the more flexibility we need to have Can we split it? Can we just split it one motion to approve the two permanent positions in each of the buildings and then another motion to approve the NIA part of adding this professional development days and then you just vote yes or no and that's it, instead of putting it all together. For me, I really feel strongly that they should take those PD days especially MLK day and all those framework PD days. So I don't want to have to vote no on the whole thing but I feel strongly about that so if you guys don't, that's okay, but I want to be able to have the option to approve the four permanent positions and then have the option to say no, I think it's a cultural thing for every staff member should be talking about microaggressions including permanent stops that are going to be here including a bus person that's just part of the work that we need to do. So we can do that NIA would have to pull her initial motion and then offer and then someone else would have to offer that motion and then we could do two motions or I think another way to handle it would be to just vote on this one if it doesn't pass then we make another motion that is probably included. The other question for Amanda though is would you vote well I guess you could be on record voting for one and then not together. To be clear though, the board doesn't decide what we do on those days. Correct. So I hear clearly an expectation of what those days will be and they may not be that focus. So and again I want to reiterate that two days of professional learning or three days or four days does not change behavior. I totally agree with you Libby. It is also though not doing it feels like not setting that expectation there's more about it. It feels to me about we are setting an expectation that this is what it is to be a full time teacher in our buildings but you're absolutely right being at a training doesn't does not the change me. The workshop is not the workshop as one of my favorite trainers. And while these people will be full time in the building the purpose is for them to play the role of substitutes for full time teachers right now who are absolutely out of their minds because of the lack of substitutes and need that support. So getting them that support to our full time teachers is the priority and making that as easy as possible. And that's how we support our teachers and sometimes it's not perfect. I think the point that you and I disagree on Jim is the hurdle you see it as a bigger hurdle than I do to say this is a requirement of the job. I'm not disagreeing that we need to support our teachers and that we need this. I think this detail here of the size of the hurdle is where we disagree. I agree though but I think you should should we vote on Mia's motion? So Reg didn't formally make a motion correct? Well let's do it. So what do we have to do? Can we have two motions on the table? So theoretically you made a second amendment right? Or though you didn't formally to go from the 186 to the 182? Yes. Okay. There was no 182. The days were pulled up. I have removed the number of days other than the 178 that's in Libby's recommendation. But I have yes amended my motion. I'm sorry. If you pulled the days the motion would be to give Libby the authority to figure out how many days as long as the professional development days are included. Is that? Okay. Do you want to restate a fresh motion? I'd love to. I move to approve Libby's recommendation for hiring permanent substitutes with the addition of setting an expectation of attending district-wide professional development days. I second that. Discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Aye. So how many, what is that? I think we're tied. All the ayes. 3-3, 3-3. You're a half. There's nothing in Jill's book that says you can be a half. I had a read Jill's book but I'm pretty certain of that. So the motion does not pass? Yeah. It does. Because it's three against two and a half, I guess. Yeah. Well, and I can vote if I could. But it's not a task. I think I can vote. I don't believe you can be a half vote. If everyone's worth two votes and I'm worth one vote. You're kidding. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. I'm sorry. I forgot about that. Five against six. You are a whole person to me. The question is can I vote? I think I can vote if it's decisive. Because I'm an elected member of the board and the chair usually doesn't vote unless the votes needed to make it decisive. I will vote no. Okay. We can double check that. So the motion does not pass. So then we would need another motion. I will make another motion. I will make two motions. One is to approve the four permanent positions. One for each school district. For each school. For each school building. Sorry. That's one. I'll take it now. Any discussion? Opposed? Opposed. So that motion passes. Okay. Okay. I'll make two motions. One at a time. Okay. So that motion passes. So the recommendation passes. Another recommendation. Right. To accept the recommendation. My motion to include four permanent subs. One for each school district. My second motion I'm making is that we add professional development. To the permanent sub MOUs. Three things? What you said? I was just counting in my head. Sorry. Let me pull up the calendar. Because I don't want to get it wrong. Okay. So next year next school year then there's one district day in August. There's an in-service day in October but that is typically building based day. There's a parent conference in October. Martin Luther King Day is a district-wide day. There's parent conferences in March. And then the early releases are district-wide. So any early releases is not covered under this. It's not considered an in-service day. It's just a full day work. So that equals as I'm looking at the calendar very quickly it equals two days. It equals two days of district-wide work and three days of building based work. Building based work typically has teachers working in teams in their PLC on the school improvement plan around student academic data or social-emotional learning data. But that's not a promise. I don't make those dates. I don't think it's about two days. Did we have a second to the motion? So the board feels a little bit better about that only two days is that there are, we added several more early releases next year. We added like three more early releases next year to have more time to work as a district faculty. I still feel really the option to having the option for Libya or the administration to say hey, we really encourage you to come for this and then we'll get paid. Even though I know it's two days it's at the beginning people are going to see that $42,000 and then go from there. I would hate for us to preclude them from participating and I'm worried if we don't address that, we've actually removed that. I would see it as a perp that they would get to participate in these as paid days and I don't want to preclude that from happening if these substitutes do want to participate. So I'm worried that if we don't address that, we've actually So I thought that was the thing that if they do participate, they get more money on top of the salary. Is that assumed? I thought that was a thing for that time. The pitch to candidates applying that hey, this is the $42,000 salary and we have in service days that you can attend and we'll pay you for those. I think we do even encourage them and say we'd love to have you come but you know if you want to take those days off it won't count against your leave but you won't get paid for it. But that also gives the principles of flexibility that even though we had said that the two service days we would like you to attend this third one because it's really going to be benefiting all of us and you're going to get paid for that. So those will be eight right? If they were. That could be in administration's purview of offering whatever extra days that they want to offer. So we don't lock them into just two days of one day. Did we have a second to Amanda second motion? Any discussion? It's basically we had the same thing presented but in two parts. Could you restate it one more time? Make a motion to add professional days require professional professional development days for the permanence of positions. All in favor? Opposed? So who are the eyes in the nose? I think it's three, two. I only heard two. Two voices. Two and then three. And I looked it up. The chair in 412 can vote always. I would like to make a motion to make sure that we offer and encourage but make it voluntary for permanent substitutes to attend and offer professional development opportunities. And pay them for it. Would you include that in your motion? I'm just asking the question. Yeah. If I come in. If I'm going to come in I should get paid. Absolutely. The same way as everyone else. But maybe I feel really crappy and I don't want to. Any further discussion? Does Anna the one keeping track of me? Thank you, Anna. That's also Jill. No, she's got her thumbs up, Mammy. She's got her thumbs up. She's good to go. Thanks, Anna. All those in favor? Aye. How many ayes were there? I think all of them. I always have it. Wow, it's the most contentious vote I've ever had. Seven years on the board. Good discussion. Good discussion. Definitely good discussion. Good result. And thanks for those days would not have even come up as an option if it wasn't brought up. Thank you. So, thanks. That's our fingers that would bind people now. So, we are on to board discussion facilities committee. I don't know who from the facilities committee wants to give an update. I missed the last one. Just as I missed the last board meeting and Kristen is our very capable chair who does our minutes and things like that. So, I don't have any updates. Do we want to reschedule for when Kristen can make it? Why don't we do that? There were meeting minutes too. The building tours have continued. I think there's maybe one more. Yeah, MSMS is in two weeks. Thank you. That would be great to hear what things are with the net zero study too. Or at least thinking about getting that going. Okay. So, we can we'll reschedule that soon. And then retreat planning with the draft agenda referred from a couple of you. I'm not going to elaborate more, but she had some great suggestions about maybe kind of doing the brainstorming around committees just and having some report out from the committees about their work plans and discussing how the work plans merge. Also, I'm not going to talk about what horizon do we want to look out on. She suggested a two-year horizon or at least a two-year far lookout, maybe a year lookout with a little more specifics just to give more direction than also when the board turns over there's a bit of a game plan already. Both of which I thought made sense. Mia had a question about ground rules and parameters and talking about that tonight, which I think we could. I was just kind of thinking of something like the respect to ground rules which are take responsible for what you say, don't blame others, use empathetic listening, be sensitive to differences in communication styles and make sure you ponder what you hear and feel before you speak. Examine your assumptions and perceptions, keep confidentiality, which we can't do because it's a public meeting and obviously trust greater truth comes with diverse perspectives and then some others that I think are good ones come prepared, be present start positively follow the agenda create a collusion environment, make space and take space be solution focused assume positive or good intent and yeah, we would love other suggestions about things but just kind of agreeing on which I think we kind of try to do anyways and then I think Libby had some suggestions about some kind of protocols we can use to like sticky boards and what not to organize the brainstorms so it's done in a way where we kind of go into small groups probably by committee come back put our stickies on a board and then discuss priorities and then other things to think about obviously we've got some things that are going to kind of come into the stream at different times the visioning process is going to come in August so we can sketch out a plan in June and then kind of see how that looks in the overlay of what comes out of the visioning committee hopefully we'll have a good sample of our climate survey responses that we can also integrate into that discussion on the retreat to see what themes are coming up from the faculty and staff and employees of the schools and then every time you make a plan things pop up as we know especially as we've known for the last couple of years so those things as well we just thought thoughts on my little kind of dump of what I've heard and additional thoughts and kind of comments on Libby's agenda and then in terms of I asked for some process examples and Mia came up with two good ones, one which I had already thought of which was the process around the tract and the other one remind me of the creation and rollout of the policy review tool yes so I'll just open it up for thoughts and comments on the agenda and we can also kind of continue to do this by email and send out a revised agenda but this is probably the last time we'll be together as a group how about that? Can I ask first just for my own knowledge how many board members were here for the equity policy just because of the way the protocol I've designed the equity policy, the tool just because of the policy or the way the format I'm thinking about right now you need a history do you know what I mean? I'm just curious if there are board members who are not here for that I think maybe Sagey maybe we could give you some background or something Amanda? I'm like thinking like timeline like walking backwards from when budget passes those little things that I'm like a vision I need things in writing so like a timeline like okay right now we usually have the retreat this month what happens then election time and board membership like why are the things that we need in terms of the board pocket that the equity committee is built in right now so like being able to kind of have that this is what happens in years like the two years and then being able to do some of that work around the committees and the work plan of what it will look like and I think for leave this activity it's really important to have some grounding questions that we can come prepared for beforehand so not just together but we actually do our homework before like our thinking and come prepared to like actually get it done so it's like those four hours to like make it really rich about work that the committees are already doing like we have the climate survey like to inform some of that and some like summaries of the vision committee on what's happening just like so that we're there to hold out what we're doing I would point out that you have four hours and you've named about eight to twelve hours of work so I think that the board should prioritize what it is you want to talk about I have a clarifying question we were just talking about that timeline this were you saying it would be helpful to have that written down as a grounding like we'd have it to look at as a piece of information for the discussions that we have so that we know so if I'm following your line of thinking if we know hey there's all this work that happens to make the budget happen we shouldn't really plan to do a whole lot of other work as a board maybe committees could but during that two month period or whatever it's okay so seeing that as a visual to help inform our conversation yeah I just and like a lot of what we did in the last retreat it was like kind of just left there right like last year we did that retreat and then it's like I don't want that to happen again so it's like time to like come prepare and be able to have some time to do it I think we have a great opportunity because we are all in different committees that's touching all of that like we're already doing the work I mean I'm in the policy committee and the equity committee and like we meet a lot we're doing a lot of work so I want everybody to know what we're working and I also want to make sure that we're getting all of us in the same page about what that work could look like in the next year or two right like so I think I think it's really important I just I get anxious when we don't have tangible things at the end of four hours of work and then we also have the two hours in June 15 so it's really six hours yeah to synthesize to synthesize and be able to get there I'll be quick I really like they have taken the time to go through our processes I think that's really important I'm glad that's in here and forgive me I were we not going to get any update on the visioning committee or did we decide that's too much and it wouldn't it'd be premature maybe that's not all I guess okay thank you all right yeah I just copy well the warrant says Wednesday June 13 it's Monday right Monday is it possible for the committees to put to each committee may have an idea of what their sort of plan might look like for the year or is it possible for I mean I know me has done an awesome job of the superintendent evaluation committee kind of adjusting that plan and I don't want to ask something that's not doable between now and the 13th but is it possible to have time for each committee to say what their goals are and the sort of frames just to take time for that and then maybe we really take a really defined time for each committee and then greater board or something like somehow to limit it so that there's a way to acknowledge some of the work and some of the changes and some of the adjustments without spending a lot of time debating what that should look like and I don't know how we would offer feedback to those processes if we really define that time but maybe a way because I'm really interested in how each committee is going to improve their work and what they're doing I think everybody's trying to but I'm really interested in as much time as a whole group with this sort of building culture building part that I hope that I heard was part of the last one maybe it's hopefully it will be part of this one I don't know yeah yeah I am in agreement on the the basic idea I want to make sure that we're using language that we all understand to be the same thing because I think there's a big difference between coming with some goals or ideas of goals and coming with a plan and in fact let's set some goals before we make the plan so I wouldn't want to expect any committee to come to the retreat with a plan yet because we don't know what the goals are so I just want to make sure that we're just saying like using the same language and sort of like being on the same page and I think that it's both ambitious and pretty realistic for us to expect that we could leave Monday with a set with the board having named a set of goals but maybe not yet have a plan exactly for them but then maybe that's what happened on Wednesday maybe that's something that we say okay that's something we're going to delegate to somebody to draft up and bring back to a future board meeting so we can land a plan at a future date so anyway I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing yeah I know that's super helpful and I think like goals, priorities are the idea that we can maybe start to think about a plan but we're certainly not going to put together a plan for the sake of expediency maybe it would be like a committee comment like a public comment we're not meant to engage in a discussion but we're going to hear and write notes and circle back to them but that would make sure we don't get stuck down a rabbit hole or two anyway and maybe to make it even more specific we could ask say each committee our task between now and then is as a committee come up with that sort of vision like what's our pie in the sky of what the district could achieve at the end of, we're saying two years out and that's what the committee maybe we would give some kind of context like here's what we've been working on etc but really this is almost like our proposal to the board just to get it to keep us kind of focused and that would give us the the fodder or the ideas with which to work to come up with what the actual goals then are for the district for the board the full board Joe I was going to say I like that because I don't want to spend the whole retreat going through the committee accomplishments that doesn't seem like a good use of our time and also to echo Amanda's point about doing work ahead of time like I'm guilty of it as anybody to show up at a major meeting like this where we're supposed to come up with these things having done very little thinking about it so I think we should maybe agree that we're at least on our own we're going to come to the meeting with our ideas of some of the processes we went through and our ideas of possible priorities and goals and then the committees are the means to the end right they're a method for achieving our priorities and goals and they contribute to them with the ideas that come from the committee it's like that's true yeah works together that way I have a different question but maybe we're still on I'm just like I'm thinking of the policy committee like in terms of goals versus work plan you know just like thinking you know we have like here are some of the policies we're working on the next year like so it's that like would that be a different conversation this is just my opinion but I think there is work that committees do that aren't that are not like completely in line with maybe a goal that we would set as a board so and my example for that with the equity committee would be maybe the new board member packet I don't think we have to have it be a board goal that by the end of 2024 there is a board member new board member packet or 2023 or whatever but the equity committee could still work on that yeah and I don't know did that answer that's just my opinion and I don't know if I even answered your question I'm out in the retreat I just I think there's like separate committees will have different ideas of what like the infrastructure committees have like a different role right like that they're looking at it specifically in terms of what the vision community is like different so yeah so I think like we just need to design and like be able to think about like just like okay how cohesive each of the committees become the board right like some of us the challenge of committees on their own thing and then like us coming to the board meeting we're like okay we're voting on that particular thing so instead of like being like we understand what each committee is doing in a way we understand the processes that happen with the financial committee and like what happens when we don't look at it yeah I agree I think report on this is not a good use of time I think one thing that I think is important is getting kind of like a shared sense of where like you know the three you know I'm just going to use three because it's how the number you have three goals priorities the board wants to set over like a two-year horizon and then a sense of you know do the committees have goals and priorities or they just do because you know the more we can kind of get the committees work to align with those bigger goals so it's all pointing in the right direction with the idea that there's going to be some work that might just need to get done or you know be aligned with those goals but not in the you know sexiest of ways you know like the board member packet I think could align with certain goals so something needs to get done but you know it could just align with the idea of it could be kind of a broader equity thing of you know making sure that board members are are onboarded properly and then we've got you know information accessible in one place etc so I wonder if maybe one thing we do is have the committees just be prepared to kind of share what not their work plan or what they've been doing but kind of why they're doing it like what they're working towards you know what is their work trying to achieve without spending 15 minutes talking about what that work is yeah and just have like three to five minutes per committee okay and then we have a rain session of like ideas for those committees just like to put out there like I wonder if we kind of do that so we get a sense of where the committees think they're going and then we kind of brainstorm over the board should be good going and then we kind of sit back and we say okay where the committees think they're going where the board thinks the board should be going and you know where do those align and where do those not align and do we have do we have a shared sense of goals and are the committees working on things that they've aligned with those goals and they're going down a rabbit hole I think in my mind you have it backwards the board should be creating the priorities and goals and the committees should be working towards those that's what I'm saying but let's get a sense of where the committees think they're going and then let's see if it all makes sense and so the committees can start thinking about like oh we're going out this way and we should be going that way so my question would be I think the board still needs to prioritize the time a little bit more so is the priority checking process is the priority creating a board work plan is the priority committee work those are the three biggies I've heard is it work plan or goal setting we have work plan down just from the discussion before so it's kind of both right now I have it as brainstorm 2023-2024 work plan that's the wrong year it's actually 2022-2024 work plan create board priorities and goals which I argue we're not going to be able to do it in four hours but we could get a baseline of where we're going so the committees can start thinking of some work plans that's going to get us there and then always coming back here to this which is why I was thinking like if we have kind of like that timeline vision like we could have some goals around so for example we have the budget budget ends in January and then we work backwards for August there are some specific things that we have been saying that we need to do to get to a budget conversation that is more inclusive so like what are those things what is that goal and then how does it relate we need to form another committee that's like supporting the finance just thinking so I think that it's important to we're not going to be able to do our work finding those four hours but just to take that example a little further in my mind what we could do is come to an agreement as a board that one of our priorities for the year is to run the budget process in a more inclusive way than we have in the past that's something we could through discussion I'm not saying that is a decision we would make a decision we could make through discussion at the retreat my thought when I'm here we should probably prioritize setting priorities and goals and then with the idea that we can start doing work plans together in later meetings and at the committee level with the idea that committee work plans would start with structure themselves around those priorities and goals that's what I would say to you yes and I think what I would add to that is what committees could do to contribute to that discussion like the pre-work committees could do to inform that discussion would be hey based on what we have been doing what are some ideas that we have for goals the board could be setting for 2022 to 2024 and that would give some focus to it rather than us just spending you know spending committee time reporting out it would actually be like that's the purpose of committees talking like sharing not that we have to have committees sharing just for the sake of it but it feels like that's a valuable set of information given that the committees cover different aspects of what the board cares about I think I'm hearing relative coherence does the board want to work on the process check I would love to if we can it feels like we could do both and maybe we just pick one process I have a protocol where you can work on three at a time but you're not actually like everybody's not diving into that is that the word cafe thing I think it's important because I think we're a very new board I know it probably doesn't feel like it and you're not particularly new but I still feel even two and a half years in new and so I think we've learned a few lessons and learned a few things where we would like to all kind of get our bearings of ground rules and sort of processes and that it might seem rudimentary but I think it would be really nice to make space so that going forward we've kind of all reached an understanding about how we want to make those decisions or at least in the best case scenario but maybe it's a swap I don't know maybe it's the priorities and goals first and then allowing we get into the processes if we're worried we're going to lose time but I'd like to do both I'd like to do both too I think that's right swap what are we talking about just having the priorities and goals first and then doing some process and then and then just so everybody knows to we'll get lunch at noon so that's one of my questions yes we'll adjourn at noon but then I hope you'll be safe for lunch together as well I was going to say you're more loved with Zail 5 o'clock yeah everybody has to do better to continue a process discussion over lunch than a substantive one or a good it's culture building gym yeah we have those hours but yeah anything else about the retreat and feel free to keep bouncing ideas by email especially about process examples that might be worth exploring the only question I have about the climate survey is do we want to have an executive session around that wait no we can there's no reason to have an executive session around that and the reasons for executive session unless it's a evaluation process so that's one thing that we should add in there maybe before goals we look at the climate survey and then we work on the goals and that what and as we talked about the equity committee meeting this morning we can have that for the board to see before Monday morning that could be part of what the board as individual board members we spend some time digesting the climate survey results before 8am Monday morning the 13th so how much time would you like to add to the agenda for the climate survey do we need to add time the agenda can be yeah discussion time around that that would kind of inform what each board member is bringing into the board's discussion that may so it's a pre-reading it's one of those mandatory not option too soon you don't get paid for it you're maxed out so you don't want to get that to us by this is a Monday meeting so Anna will probably get this out on Thursday or Friday next week do you guys want me to grab some coffee and pastries from Capital Grounds or something we've got it covered thank you coffee I need it is the board of retreat not now next but the 13th not the 6th absolutely do you need a note okay you just let me know speaking of executive session that is what is next and provision 10 security or emergency response disclosure of which could jeopardize public safety somewhere I'll make a motion on those grounds I move that we enter executive session on safety grounds just summarizing security and safety grounds second just so the public knows that means that we're not talking about any sort of imminent threat we're just talking about general security measures that for obvious reasons need to be public thank you