 Alex how are you? I'm very well thank you Chris please to be with you. Well it's you know I I get some legends on this podcast and they're not the people that most people would think they're not the bloody superstars they I think part of what we're going to talk about today is when you meet the real people underneath you're talking a very different animal from from sort of public persona and you very kindly approach me to talk about your father and I said well couldn't we be helping the children the next generation if we talked about it in a podcast because look it's several reasons actually it's also I think it's good for me and you because we can hide this stuff we can but that doesn't help oh no it moves us on a level the airing the sharing but this doing it with you Chris um in this way very unexpected for me I've no social media I'm not a person who's out there in any way I'm very private but alcohol is a is a social issue and it affects families and I was a child and my brother trapped in an alcoholic environment during our childhood and it's not safe it's not safe and and my dad died through multiple organ failure a very predictable end in life to an alcoholic no dignity no self-respect no love and that's a very tragic end to anybody's life I feel for him as a serviceman but I'm a child I was a child I'm a parent now and he should have done better should have done better yes it's that thing isn't it's it's called intergenerational abuse and it becomes very hard to stop because we basically become a product of our parents don't we and the oh yeah you know we we and I've had to really work hard on myself oh every day Chris I've told you about myself and my brother being adverse to alcohol we both hit drugs we hit different drugs we both managed to stay alive thank goodness had we picked each other's drugs we probably wouldn't have um and so we could never drink but luckily the criminality involved in my drug taking meant that there were very severe consequences for living that life um and when I became a parent it had to stop I knew I couldn't justify criminal activity as a parent alcohol we're you know there's no blame in fact we live in a society in which you're encouraged to drink I'm looked at as weird for being a tea totaler on a work stew or on a Friday I'm not popping off for a glass of wine after work I I'm not one of those who can't wait to get a drink in me um I very much see it as a demon doorway to um to neglect for children if you're a parent I'm afraid I'm very judgmental about the effects of alcohol yes and let's just clarify for our friends at home and I can say this because I'm a fully qualified substance misuse specialist me too yeah and I and like yourself Alex I'm qualified from both sides of the fence so I've got 30 years experience if there's anybody out there that doesn't understand alcohol is a drug and it's not just a drug it's the worst drug the worst and look Chris is it a very valuable point here I was a heroin addict for a decade I could get clean of heroin and never have to engage in a normal relationship with that drug again just avoid it I moved I put everything in place no one talks to me about heroin no one tries to take me out for a bit of heroin on Friday after work you know I really think look food addictions and alcohol are the most pernicious because you you have to have a relationship with these things in society and what we're talking here Alex is where it gets complicated again is the massive hypocrisy involved in the British armed forces but you can explain that to me then Chris did I say hippo yeah hypocriticalness yeah hypocrisy um well what do they do they teach you for 22 years of your life to fucking hit the most dangerous drug out there at every single given opportunity and then when you're dying and your organs are failing and this happened to one of my bezies right I'm not going to say his name of obviously people watching will know you know go on but when they're on their deathbed and their organs are failing and they've gone that horrible green colour and they're still trying to get out of the hospital because oh yeah even anything for a drink you know they're lying to the doctor oh what it is I'm gonna go home and you know get me washed kit and it's like no it's not you just want to anyway this is not a criticism of of the individual it's a terrible psychological condition but when that person's in that state you've got his military buddy he's going yeah he loves a drink and it's like no he doesn't love a drink he's he's chronically addicted so this there's never even to this day Chris is there's no early warning system no one to this day now because you must know people who are still serving is it still treated with the same lack of regard or are people actually helping each other now is it being addressed more now well let's look at the function that alcohol plays in the forces so medic self-medicating there you go numbing pain so numbing trauma that's a big big one bonding I would say is is another you know all your boys together you get drink you puke up over each other you put women's clothes on and dance around and it and yeah it works it and for 30 of the lads in that troop out of that 30 25 it won't be a problem for they'll get up the next thing but for five that carry I would say probably carry childhood trauma like like myself that release from that constant underlying feeling of being different or or anxiety or whatever is just bubbling under the surface which we don't realise in our life because you don't know you're different from anyone that that self-medicating goes on to the next day and then it's like whoa when we're going to do that drink thing again guys come on let's smash it let's and and you can see the you can see the cycle of addiction start there so and my mum picked my mum they were alcoholics together and so even when my dad left the forces six o'clock six o'clock gin time I mean they were not brown paper bag alcoholics so when I was a child trying to I knew there was something wrong I knew there was something wrong it was not a safe environment but I couldn't put my finger there was no crime it wasn't illegal they seem to be doing what everybody else was doing in such an overt way it's keeping to this timetable this this you know army officer you know officers mess you know even the types of drinks the way in which they were drunk this pomp which covered it actually it allowed to mask this very evil addiction which they were both into but it all looked above board it all looked well that's just what army people do that's what army officers do they just go for it a bit more with a with a few different you know it's look I remember a lot of officers mess do's Chris and things like that when I was very young everyone's drinking they're quite fun when you're little because but then when you go back to a home and that mood turns sinister and then people start arguing or they don't you know when the doors close you need your parents to be decent moral people and I see the drink you know the movie The Shining right no I look at alcohol in all the movies you know Jack Nicholson was borderline until he took that drink you know the the drink changes people New Year's Eve worst night of the year I can't stand it I haven't been out for two decades everybody drunk everybody neglecting everybody else the atmosphere people can't care for each other once they've had a drink they can't look after themselves and yet this is allowed to go on in homes up and down the country disgusting and for me there was always a slight class element in that my parents were deemed a bit middle class you know no one looks in middle class kids doors or upper class kids doors you know social services only become involved in homes you know 20 30 years ago if there was some element of poverty or deprivation social services ever stick their kids their heads into an army army quarters who was supposed to assess children's welfare for servicemen because social services don't don't seem to have much to do with them do they it's a private club and so the children are neglected worse than they would be in open society yes deep I get a bit not myth it's not the right word but I I feel for people when they use they say and I hear this a lot doing what I do oh I was an army brat and and it's that self it's I'm trying to think of the right term it's that self-acceptance of a negative connotation a negative stereotype to to try abandon abandonment I was bored in schooled for a few years as was my brother so I mean you're going to stigmatize any kid if you send them away so you know they're going to struggle with worth and value you know if they're abandoned aren't they yeah that's what I'm getting to is no you you weren't a brat you were an abused child absolutely you were moved to five schools before yeah oh every 18 months Chris trying to chart and remember where I might have been living when and just because my mum was living somewhere doesn't mean my dad was there and and so it's it can be very tricky trying to piece together and memories when alcoholics give you memories you can't trust them I haven't been able to speak to my mum and as a source of information for decades you can't trust anything you're told this storytelling they're shaping their own lives so they can live with themselves editing as they go and you become part of that deception yes and let's remember when we're we're we're having a go here folks so we're upset about the some people call it an illness I say it what it is it's a learned psychological condition you learn that this behavior gets you a certain reward and for those of us that like that reward because it covers over the old Dr Phil you're getting a payoff somewhere that kind of yeah you know we then chase that behavior because we don't want to feel that bad way again and then because the behavior but how could you as a parent Chris I can't understand how failing your child would not be the worst pain imaginable to you I I can I mean and that's I've made a note my dad had one job to do he had alcoholic parents his father had committed suicide there's obviously the depressive you know addictive gene running in that side of the family one job he had to do break that cycle and not only did he fail to break the cycle he actually raised the stakes there was no domestic violence or physicality to my dad's upbringing he was just he lived with pompous alcoholics himself you know it was actually worse for us my mum was a tyrant we were all physically abused at the hands of my mum and you know look I had a little revelation Chris I I saw the three of us in a club together me my dad and my brother because we were all in oh my god mum's a tyrant she treats us badly we're a team right and but you know what in very recent years I've come to resent my dad for that he wasn't a child I'd projected my feelings of fear and powerlessness onto a soldier a grown man an adult he had no right to be in that club with me and what a coward he never pointed that out he was happy to have our protection a soldier I like two tours of Ireland four clans using his children as human shields because he just wanted to protect his co-dependent alcoholic relationship I but he was a victim he was a victim of domestic abuse I don't think that would have happened if he hadn't been an alcoholic maybe and so I I felt very sorry for him but his circumstances weren't my circumstances he had them you know looking in now I escaped my you know I left my first marriage it wasn't great you get up you do something about it you don't stay there and let your children suffer we used to beg him we used to say dad we'll come and live with you we'll live with you dad never made a move never made a move and people say they can't understand that these battered women can stay with their husbands well I can't understand how a competent decorated soldier can end up in that situation more shameful to him than the alcoholism I think but just live under one big delusion don't we in this life because and again for friends at home I'm not here to slag anyone off or upset anyone I'm here for my son's generation and if it means I've got to look at myself in a mirror in order to tell the truth oh maybe I'm blessed no no we're not blessed Chris I tell you what it's a bloody struggle right those of us who get clean there is no it's very hard to get someone else to want to get clean what's the prize yeah you might be a bit euphoric for the first year when you're yay but then real life kicks in it's full of struggles it's full of pain you don't feel good all the time but you make a choice to dig in and be switched on and do the best you possibly can you don't once you take a drink you switch off you're not helping yourself and you're not helping anybody and and it's legal the delusion I wanted to point out in this case Alex is that you know soldiers aren't heroes we need to get over this this myth yes yes they they will do heroic acts in the spur of the moment people will do stuff that will surprise you and probably surprise themselves and and they get their their trinkets to make sure that the you know right Chris it's a job title not a personality yeah and when you see someone who's drunk themselves to death when they've had all the warnings everyone's told them to stop and this I think this is what's hurting you Alex is there's one thing having a problem saying listen I accept it I please help me I will try I'll slip back occasionally but I will you know I will I understand this is not good I never I never slip back Chris I've got to tell you once I change train night tracks you know February 17th 2007 boom I'm a parent right and so I was cushioning my that choice to cushion myself so that I could cope with my pain and deliver as a parent it's not delivering you're not there you're not present and what's an all people can have good days and bad days it's okay it's part of life and and you have to develop I was practicing resilience for you it's not the best thing I've I've practiced radical acceptance now which is very different and so that struggle to to be something to stay something you don't actually need that it requires so much effort a little bit of bendability that says I'm just going to trust myself I will never not think of myself as an addict Chris people around me got bored with me talking about it you know I'm 10 years clean of yeah what I don't say I don't use words like that I don't say clean because I was never dirty all I ever was was a fucking legend you were a smack head right oh I don't I don't I don't use words like that you know there was a rating within the kind of when I was a and don't get me wrong I was I was again much like a function and alcoholic I had a great career I had a you know I was a functioning member of society I was not you know down and out or anything I myself was in a codependent relationship but I worked I done my degree I was successful I never stopped much like that model put down by my mum and dad and their alcoholism I was a drug taker with great control I could go to work do my jobs but that's um there's no replacement for this that I feel now this this life force this energy this I thought I was making myself better by switching off you can never reach this place without stopping whatever that crutch is and just finding out what's on the other side I don't do fear keeping on drinking keeping on using is a fear based decision because you don't think you can be any different you can just like that just like that the problem is we live in a fear base you know it's not the people that decide the fear is is it it's this is an agenda we're all placed under um you've only got going to supermarket at the moment to see how people are behaving to understand they all live in fear yeah right they're not they're not warrior legends like us they they get their information from a black box they believe it because they don't understand how the world works and then they're willing to put that shit on the next generation yeah and then and then if you were to dare say that they're bad parents for brainwashing their children into a lifetime of fear and false science and all this this not you know they'd they'd be abhorrent at you how dare you say I'm at what you've just you smother your kids in a certain jail five times a day you don't think that's child abuse but this is my kind of anger coming out but it but it doesn't mean that I don't understand it still it I mean I've been I I relate so well to everything you're saying but then I also picture let's not use anyone as an example let but let's picture Dave who came from a generation where everything was brushed under the carpet including child abuse where alcohol was what men did real men they drink right where Dave's father wasn't adverse to belting him around the head and telling telling him he was useless and he'd never amount to anything and and and you know no no praise never any like well done son I love you son you get in there and smash it so none none of that just and then Dave grows up like takes on the traits of that father and then this is go this is the intergenerational thing right and when you see Dave behaving the way his dad did then it's it you can see they're both victims yeah they're both victims and then it's like as as much as it upsets us and it's frustrating and it's just desperate it we have to remember you know you can only exercise power if you have it and well look Chris you know yeah I these terms they're so let me say so much is to do with mindset victim I don't do that one survivor I don't do that one life experiencer right that's what we all are we're all just experiencers I don't do victim or survivor because I think we all share very similar stories you know I don't think one of us goes through anything more sensational than any other family whether it be alcohol or drugs or abuse or crime or whatever it might be and people just need to start talking about we are at an age now where this this kind of protecting children has has become key as it not everyone's talking about keeping children safe and the thing is they think they want need to keep them safe from a pedophile and a predator no we need to look in our own houses first we need to look at yourself check yourself you know do a little recce on yourself if if quite often it's a how what would you advise a friend to do so you remove yourself so you know imagine that you're looking this is not your life you're looking in on Dave's life what do you think about Dave's life is Dave doing right by his kids is Dave a stand-up bloke people don't look at themselves and when they do they quite often lie into themselves about what's there rather than actually taking a good look and we're all rough diamonds Chris we're all salvageable we're all savable and you're right none of us can I just chip in at Alex because you know that let's talk about Dave again like the biggest blocker for Dave is he's what we call when you you know this from the cycle of change prochaska and decrementi for anyone that wants to look that up the most next to alkaline diet is the most important thing to understand on this planet cycle of change well what we know is you have to accept you've got a problem before you can take action but for Dave's generation if you didn't oh I get people on my so I've got to be careful what I say it I get people that are upset when they think that their alcoholism is going to be exposed and people might think of them as an alcoholic I can't explain to them that should be your biggest badge of honor right your mother nature's chosen ones they she won't choose anyone to go through the pain that you're going to go through she's challenging you because she can see you deserve a better life some people make it through the addiction like ourselves and we get that paradise I live in paradise every day right paradise is a garden that grows weeds on a daily basis and that's the thing this sort of you know being drug free it's not all it's not wonderful it doesn't give you any different a life doesn't change your circumstances but boy it can make you feel good about yourself when you make that change you have something to grow you have something to nurture and develop and quite often people are doing these drugs and drink because they don't have anything to nurture that they're shut down they're stunted they don't see hope they don't see something to nurture and they can nurture themselves with just the this what do we need more sanctuaries Chris you know but we're helping people out because people will be listening to this that are in what in the old days they call denial right yeah but I don't drink a bottle of whiskey before I go to work so I can't have a problem with alcohol yeah my parents were like that yeah people listening now will know um excuse me you don't you could have one glass of wine but if that one glass of wine once a week throws your life out and you start doing neglecting your duties and responsibilities to yourself and and others and and by that I include that is the definition of addiction that one glass of wine it's not it's not the person lying in the gut every day had a had that that that the point that they were aiming to my dad's disposition would change you know if there wasn't um and Sundays that was a free for all but yes it was it was very regimented drinking so that it looked above board oh there was nothing sneaky about it cocktails cocktails at half past two and all the suns passed up dude are it's you know it was legitimate yeah but it wasn't and it meant made they were my brother calls this a former child abuse because of the drinking timetable dinner we didn't get dinner until about quarter to eight and my my brother looks back at that right as a hungry growing sort of 10 11 12 year old he states that as child abuse he was like not getting any food until quarter to eight at night because they need to fit in their drinking now I've never been much of an eater so it that that never that was not on my radar the fact that we weren't actually getting fed until they'd had their you know I would never not I couldn't not feed my kids until quarter to eight at night they want their dinner at our full crests you know yeah we've got to remember member though Alex this is if people want to call it an illness they can it's not an illness in that terms folks it's a psychological it's psychological programming that's what addiction is I know because I've unprogrammed myself I've never been to any self-help group I've never been to a doctor if I did I just had to fuck off because I ate other people right I've done everything myself all that research the theory the working as as a specialist as I say but we just got to be so careful I don't want to stigmatize people that that that they're experiencing addiction I love this man right I love him because my dad I love him no stigma a lot of this I've a lot of this I've only been able to conclude since he's died and he's not here anymore because I'm so full of compassion and I'm a a good human being and I only really considered the impact that his actions or lack of actions had on my life after he passed away because I wasn't actually free to I didn't feel free to judge him at all I saw his pain and trauma but then when he wasn't alive I it did make me really think about how unsafe my childhood was and how I was honoring him honoring him in his death doing right by his ashes doing right by his by his military history having to see all these cards come through the door telling me this man's a legend oh what worked down in 82 oh I don't care Colonel this that and the other I don't care my dad was a legend to you he was a wobbly legged drunk who pissed himself who died with no carpet in his bedroom because he couldn't have carpet in his bedroom anymore because he pissed it too many times who didn't who who didn't eat because it is a suffagus and being repaired but he still wouldn't use it he would hide his food in doggy poop bags and and secrete them around the property it was like a long suicide crest the longest suicide mission that a human being could embark on with a predictable end and nothing nothing we could do they stayed in this little club together until the very end and we try to rescue him we try no thinking that if we could take the domestic element away separate him and my mum then we could regrow my dad you know they have money we said look we got to the point where we were saying look don't you don't need this money spend it let's put him into one of these really good rehabilitation centres you know A gets away from mum and B someone can actually talk to him he never talked Chris he never talked he never talked about his service he never talked about his emotions he never talked let's talk about his service because the Falklands is a big old thing for anyone to go through was he on the ground over there I look I'll be quite honest with you my dad my dad left to go to the Falklands on the eve of my ninth birthday and he came in and woke me up and I've been trying to piece together the sense of it ever since my dad left on the 10th of April to go to the Falklands by helicopter or army plane because he woke me up to give me a birthday present I was going off to boarding school after the Easter holidays so didn't know when I was going to see him and I think he I think maybe he was going to do some parachuting because he was exhilarated and nervous and talking to me about this plane dad's going in a you know one of these planes where they leave the doors open and I asked him to bring me back a piece of cloud um anyway I often think of that because he was going off to do something crest to do with the Falklands he didn't go on a ship I know that he couldn't stand the smell of lamb ever again after returning from the Falklands if my mum ever wanted to roast a lamb chop my dad was sick to his stomach and I know that links with the Falklands somehow he never said a word to Chris in fact as an as a young adult asking him about the Falklands he my dad told me I've never seen active service this time and off he went so I don't know I know he was there I know he didn't go on a ship I know that he left on the 10th of April and that it didn't end until June but I can't tell you do we well can we um can we say what what he was on army well again Chris is it this is my dad went to Santerst right um so that would have been he went to Campbell's College Northern Ireland so he was a sort of army you know in the making there went to Santerst and he joined he was a an Ulsterman so that was very difficult back in the day and he joined the Sherwood and Worcester foresters at the time that was his um the Wuffers and then a very strange service history Chris so he was obviously in Brecken 71 to meet my mum in this garrison town that's why I'm back here I'm born in 73 in Berlin my brother's born in 75 in Colchester there was bits of Salisbury Dover Northern Ireland Nottingham but at times so when we served the second tour in Northern Ireland my dad was a UDR officer all the little things to go with that but then when we went back to Berlin in around 1984 my dad served with the Royal Hampshire's as a major with the Royal Hampshire's so I can't even get a proper handle on exactly exactly why my dad didn't I know the Wuffers amalgamated and or whatever eventually but I don't know why my dad was passed around like some sort of floating major who could be over here with them or over there with them so like to say I can't really talk about his soldiering can I he never really discussed it with us and these were this was his army life strange things why has he got a why is Fiji in his passport why would my dad ever got a Fiji it wasn't a family thing I don't know why he went a Fiji I don't know Chris yeah I was going to say why would anyone go to Cornwall I don't know all he ever said about the Falklands was it's stunk it's stunk basically all he had to say it's stunk and he told his children he'd never seen active service but he left home to go buy helicopter or army plane or something on the 10th of April from Dover and I mean I didn't see him again then until I can't remember when the next time I saw him was to be honest because of boarding schools and holidays so I don't know Chris yeah to be quite honest and and let's talk about his childhood do you think that he was a but islands would have been because of because being an Irish man yeah I think he wanted to join the RUC but his dad had been the youngest ever chief of the RUC and had shot himself with his service gun ah how old how old was your dad 17 my dad was 17 and his dad shot himself um so look these sorts of when I look at my dad when I just assess him as a had to get to grips with his with the bits of soldiering that I can and there was obviously great conviction there to want to stand for his country and his perceived countryman at the time so I think a lot of the difficulties were Northern Ireland my dad was in Northern Ireland early 70s he was an Irishman anyway and that was very difficult in the British army and then I think I'm just I'm not trying to be like Mr Psychologist or anything but like if his dad took his own life clearly he there was some mental issues going on there and they wouldn't have just come up like that they would this is something from childhood so then so what I'm trying to say is all through your dad's parenting there's obviously an issue he's that's coming down to him um many of us join the forces with these child this with this childhood trauma and then of course he ran into the he ran into the forces yeah my dad I mean whether that I mean when I look at the history in Ireland at the time it's funny there's two brothers my dad and his brother his brother had no interest he went off to uni chasing girlfriends looking for money my dad was obviously very deeply influenced by what was happening in Northern Ireland and felt that you know those were steps that he he couldn't not take so I appreciate there's there's a there's a human with conviction but then to weigh that up against the lack of conviction when it comes to looking after your own children it it's hard yes and you said the particular incident the sick the two signals getting murdered had a had a devastating effect on his mental health he'd just left the service Chris and we were myself and dad had gone to Porthcall on a rec heater by the house they were going to live in he had a job to go to uh shit jobs obviously and we were in a bed and breakfast on our own me and dad I think I might have been enrolled in the school as well or something and so at night it was just him and I sitting in the living room in the bed and breakfast the bed and breakfast owner had given my dad the key to the bar so that he could keep his own tally of his whiskeys at night and what have you on an honesty basis we were watching the news and they were showing live footage of and I should know their name sorry um those two soldiers getting pulled out of the car yeah I made sure I made an Derek Derek Wood and David house please do um and everything changed I didn't know who I was sitting in a room with he went to the bar he just got the bottle he took it back and he was gone you know just gone now I don't know whether you'll want to say this or not I was so confused quest by not understanding I didn't relate what was on the tally particularly I knew it was an abhorrent situation I'm glad I couldn't quite fully comprehend it and dad had gone somewhere look I remember later that week my dad was such a stranger to me that I went nosing around his room right looking for clues you know I'm 13 at the time and I don't know what's going on I'm somewhere with my dad I everything's very strange he's drinking and so I go through his room and I he has this little brown suit army suitcase that always went with him everywhere I open this suitcase and I find pornography first time I found pornography I rang my mum and she was very sort of calm eat your dad's a soldier they they carry this stuff because she sort of just said that but um I look I wish I'd never gone nose in Chris because now when I think about the impact that that little issue would have had on top of or an already really complicating traumatic time for my dad so I already felt this man had disappeared and I didn't know who he was and suddenly turned into um what is it I mean you know it was the first time I'd ever seen pornography which I'm sure is but you know um I feel a bit differently about that now and it was nothing may I say it was probably you run of the mill nothing nothing too bad boobs they weren't my mums and so that was quite hard to understand and but he never came back from that and I mean he'd left the forces so you've got to understand this is very early days of city street he'd had his he'd had his six week builders course and was chucked out you know and and then he's on his on his own watching this I yeah so from friends at home who who aren't familiar with what we're talking about it was two corporals undercover in belfast and there's various different theories on who they were working for if you get what I mean but at the time how they ended up there and yeah at the time they were um it was said they were said to be signalers and the story at the time was that one the the the more senior signaler who'd been in belfast for some time was showing the new guy around undercover car undercover clothes pistols tucked down the front of their jeans and they accidentally unknowingly drove into an IRA funeral courtage and it was all captured on camera not just locally but also there was a police an aerial yeah police helicopter in the air and and it didn't stop any of it from happening no one of them fired a warning shot and everyone backed away immediately and then they swarmed back on the car there was a close-up shot that showed the magazine tumbling out of one of the corporals weapons so they reckon he'd trying to take the um safety catch off he'd actually inadvertently clicked the magazine release catch um and cut along so short they dragged them out stripped them when we went I mean I watched that footage a few years ago when I was sort of deep diving on my dad after he'd gone and um I don't know what those guys could have done any different you know we look at it it's ag it's agonizing absolutely agonizing but you you you can't see a way around it I I don't know how yeah it was it this this happened literally this was before we deployed to belfast so exactly the same location at that time we were doing our build-up training when this happened one of our corpus jam brought the paper and it went look at this voice and we were looking at the this funeral crowd um to pick out the faces of the guys we're going to see in in in in a month's time right um the sim tied in little things like one of the corpus that so they've both been stripped off they've been brutally tortured how you know rocks chucked at them all this stuff savage savage yeah and then they were executed in in a place called penny penny lane but right just before his execution one of the corpus just got up and still tried to make a and and it it it's something it's things like that Alex that are like oh god could you imagine the fear of knowing I wonder if it is fit look I mean I don't know too much about what my dad did in Ireland probably not meant to know but I do remember that there is some one of the times sitting over there dad didn't look like dad right my mum used to say it was the most handsome he'd ever been right flares my dad was wearing denim flares right and big bushy choppy things and a tash and his hair was grown and wild so whether he had an acute awareness of um being in plain clothes and being rumbled or being in an uncomfortable setting or you know I would imagine my dad had some use with his irish accent and his irish ness and um so who knows I think I think he was retraumatised on a very personal level as opposed to the horrificness that any of us see when we watched this I think there was a very personal connection with not being in uniform somewhere where you didn't want to be found in Ireland he's watching his worst fear come true yeah and it's it may as well be him there because even as someone even as someone as detached as I was because I hadn't been in um active service by then I hadn't been in Belfast but even I Alex can tell you I was that I was one of those guys especially when they said this is this is not an unforeseen you're soldiers don't the army do anything with you to to realise that you guys must be living with trauma as part of that job indoctrinated trauma to help them your own personal trauma given what you might have to encounter when you're serving there should be a system in place Chris a duty okay why are they not why is that not my workplace offer free counselling I'm an administrator in a national park for god's sake my workplace offer free counselling yeah well the systems the system in place them is take your pistol out and you fucking shoot someone but they didn't did they and and I'm not saying that would have saved them because you've only got nine rounds in that magazine I don't know how many backups they would have carried but even even if it was three they those rounds will I think you'd pretty much keep one round for you for yourself because it's just quicker and easier to do that than to go through what those guys actually but had I been then I would have gone right sorry one of you's got to fucking have it and and hopefully that would have kept them off until the troops could have got there on the ground but I don't know I'd like to say I've heard different stories about who these guys actually were in respect to their professionalism if they were signers they they could have been sloppy soldiers sorry I don't mean that I mean that I know I heard that you know it was a bit of a show off they might not have been this is the trouble with the British army Chris they bloody shaft too they're quite happy for people to believe Liza but they're quite happy to try out these stories especially in Ireland they're quite happy to say oh shonky soldier bad soldier you know it's very uncomfortable it is a it's an uncomfortable climate to see this coming down and I've got my own moral take on on Ireland but then I have my I'm sorry but there should be a certain amount of protection from your employer but what we're discovering here with the trauma and the alcoholism is that there's no there's no looking after the welfare in this organisation do the British army ever get sued Chris does anybody ever actually gone back to them and said you were a really shitting ployer and you didn't look after me yeah I mean people try to sue them after the gulf didn't they because I'm not I'm not aware well it's that thing isn't it if it starts a president the the military don't want that do they because if one person manages to sue them because their land rover didn't have art I remember that when my dad's hearing they were busy trying to say that people weren't deaf bloody years ago so they could not have to pay out for that pressure was put on individual soldiers not to pursue those claims you know pressure a lot of pressure in there yeah when we when we arrived in in Ireland fell fast northern Ireland depending on I don't get involved in all that that politics it's not my place but we arrived there we didn't wear helmets we just had our berries on right and then the unit before us had put in so many claims for head damage from from rocks from being ripped that they forced to stick them on and a lot of them were like mate mate smack me in the head smack you know get your essay and smack you I'm not saying we did that but the unit before us did anything you've got like if you tripped on a pavement and smashed your face on the curb that was a kid's just that culture is indicative of a bad employer because if you've got an employer who's taking care of you you don't take the piss because you're already well looked after if you've got an employer who's not looking after you you might try and you know fleece a bonus here or there if you're not actually looked after well yeah I don't know how much to get into that because you're like soldiers are just people well we were scallywags we were scallywags if you could get away with getting a 500 quid here all there or in the case of the the brickings people were getting like five grand you know what one guy did actually get set to see me on our in our company and he was on life support and everything right but anyway the thing was the previous unit put so many claims in that our unit after two weeks honeymoon period we all had to wear helmets then and but yes I would imagine they do react so there is a reaction well only only because they want to save the money isn't it that's the people started if people started saying you didn't look after me and my mental health suffered and I'm an addict and you didn't support me could you see a movement I mean it would be enough but how do you get this employer because that's what they are they're a very big employer how do you get them to look after their stuff well it's not going to happen is it and we're seeing that now with the northern island veterans who are getting hammered there's the military can't be it has to serve a function I say this like everyone you know you just got to look at the last 20 years of conflict to see who the military serve you know and unless unless you're utterly like you like to live in a delusion it hasn't been us that they've been serving as it you know but I don't think these armies have ever worked on behalf of the people Chris no I mean you don't know you have it possibly exceptions I mean the Falklands isn't it you know I wouldn't want to say the even that's got dodgy starting ground well then then there then there is you know there is benefiting and oh I don't know but but so while they're in existence I'm not talking about whether it's a good or a bad thing having the forces who's bidding they're doing but they are an employer they are an employer I don't understand you care to their employees I don't understand I can skip that yeah they're they are an employer and you're right and the reason we're having this conversation today is they're an employer that promotes alcohol most employers have a no a no alcohol my employer wouldn't tolerate me can't be smelling of alcohol or being a bit I'm not allowed to drink during my working hours I have policies that protect my welfare and my employer from me being not able maybe to do my job or interface or look after myself yeah it's substance abuse isn't it drug abuse substance abuse it that it on a massive scale and it's condoned by the employees so this is this is why do they feed you guys properly Chris because obviously diet is very important to you and I probably now and you know what what you eat are are people given the chance to be mentally healthy obviously not when you're active on active service but normally is it good good catering do they actually give you guys a chance to to be the best you can I went vegetarian for a period when I was in right which was almost unheard of right and when the chef saw me helping myself to veggies and and not having a he just lent across and went royal can I do you something special you're vegetarian aren't you and I said yeah he said all right just just let me know and I'll do you they were absolutely exceptional I can only talk about the rule well the rule mean rule Marines chefs were just brilliant absolutely brilliant on ship they were wonderful as well I'm not talking maybe I mean I'm a big I practice alkaline living now so my diet is very different now to what it was as a young man where I just eat anything you know give me 10 egg banjos in an evening I think nothing of doing my dad love those you know knocking them back but didn't he got the RAF with their massive budget and it just gets ridiculous it's like eating at the Ritz or something okay all right well that's good because you know so there's less excuses for it then but people should have the mental priority to know it needs to be I mean alcohol it's not just the forces in society we need to acknowledge it's incredibly dangerous chemical and we're all laboring under delusions because these delusions these narratives these these brainwashing is in they all serve a certain function in society and that's not for your benefit or mine is it because we're the ones that end up dying on a you know kidney failure it serves the it serves the as a as a as a scenario press remove alcohol what would what would the army how would they would notice that if if their servicemen weren't self-medicating they they would have to come up with something to replace yeah yeah but I think we also need to point out that it it was of its time it's allegedly and I say that because I you know I've been out of it a long time now but I am told this massive drinking to destruction culture is not quite what it was when I served okay when you meet the younger I mean they've just extended training at limestone by a month and the reason for that is is youngsters are rocking up there and they they've never seen anything like it they you know that so and for anyone listening this is not knocking young people this is just being honest about how life is now it's changed there's a massive agenda pretty sedentary are they press pretty sedentary when they rock out no I don't think sedentary is right word they're just molly coddled so they'll write to me and say Chris you know I've got to move away from home can you give me any advice and I say I resist the temptation of saying it's you know that if you're asking me you're not ready no I resist the temptation of being honest and saying like if you think that's your problem you wait you've got to shove a bay net through someone's throat that that's that's the thing that's going to screw you up for life because you're a softy and you want to be a hard man and there isn't really any much thing because the blokes you think of the artist they're the ones that end up drinking themselves to death because they're not odd they're just human like everybody else on a constructive note Chris I did have a little thing there when my dad was a younger man so a serviceman in his 20s and what I have few I'm 30s exercise he did sports right he was inter hockey windsurfing I remember windsurfing in swindoby gravel pit with him or some God knows where and when he had that balance he was happier and he drunk less because he would actually be engaged in something and the sport element I think if he'd been able to maintain that it really would have helped balance the rest of his lifestyle and when that door shut so I mean that's key for anybody key for me access to the outside walking exercise breathing properly expelling my carbon dioxide getting as much oxygen in me as I can no feeling alive and exercise or is very good for that and that that stopped for my dad so I would just say to anybody it doesn't have to be physical if you if you have mobility issues it can be anything that just changes the way you breathe you know it can be done it brings you back to self it involves self mastery and it can feel very good and it can be hard to be left without a crutch and I think exercise outdoor stuff pets whatever it may be they're really helpful you don't want to leave people thinking well I've got to put down the bottle and then what then everything then everything yes so I want to finish up here Alex on two things um and my dad never got the love of his grandchildren there we are he was he was such an alcoholic that there was no love no no very very very hard for him I accepted it my kids aren't even aware of what they didn't have but for for a man to become a grandparent and fail to even really notice that such a shame that the love connection Alex are you going to forgive him because I did forgive him and and this is the thing I forgave him I've I never talked about after he was dead and he had my forgiveness and I told him during the week in which he was dying that I forgave him and I was with him when he took his I was the only one with him I spent all that time with him and it was very difficult but I actually wanted to see there was a treat in it when my dad's liver went about three days before the end he got delirious right he had this sort of thing that happens where apparently they go a bit delirious and he was the most animated that I'd seen him in 20 years he was laughing and talking there was a full being in there um and it was the service he was doing this strange thing with his blanket the only thing I wanted to ask you Chris is there a bit of kit or what might he have been doing the blanket on his bed in a very precise way he kept doing this fold fold fold pleat like he was putting some sort of kit away or something and I wondered if you knew what that might be just this sort of pleating pleating very exact folding over but it it wasn't the blanket he was doing that with a bit of kit he was talking about being a bad stooge he was um and then ordering drinks because he thought he was on a cruise I'm not ready to order yet he said to the nurse yeah off his head but that for me was a bit of joy because I hadn't seen him smile laugh or be animated for two decades possibly so I actually enjoyed that my brother didn't I I really enjoyed just seeing my dad animated even though it was delusional or whatever it was but to see his face light up to see a full smile to hear a voice with power in it um I hold that very dear but he was a he was a bastard Chris he told me to fuck off that was one of the last things you ever said to me he just wanted to die he just kept pulling the thing out of his nose I was wrestling with him um he wanted to die he wanted to die yes I just um hope you can set yourself free of yes I forgive him I forgive him I forgive any human being but the child in me doesn't forgive him and I'm very glad that I have learned from his mistakes and that I have broken the cycle and so I may be not able to forgive him if I was still screwed up myself okay but the power of being able to do right by my children and right by myself means that I am able to forgive him had I been a screwed up drug taker still no doubt oh my dad's to blame oh you know it's very easy isn't it no I don't blame him I kind of look at him now he was a rubbish dad Chris but I have I forgive the man I forgive the man yeah when my old man found out I was going to join the Marines he won that he and I told him I was going to have this chat a photo of him I spoke to him last night yeah there he is and I told him I said I'm not interested in besmirching your name I love you but I'm blowing the fucking doors off dad because if one person decides maybe not to take that next drink or maybe to actually assess the impact that their actions or lack of actions are having on their child then that's the pricey paid that's the pricey paid for the life he led so I speak out of respect for him and I hope he'd be I hope he'd be proud of this doing what he could not do yeah well you're being the warrior that that he couldn't be and how can you not how can you not be proud of that you know it's it's easy to live in a lie folks you know it's easy to just hero worship the military like they're all brilliant you know it's like it's some Hollywood movie or something that's not what being a legend is that's not what being a warrior is what being a warrior is what Alex is doing now she's protecting the children in the next generation from from this generation's egos and that's what it is it's ego it's people that can't admit that do you know what if people realize I've got a problem they might and it's just all such utter fucking horseshit like we are who we are life's not supposed to be perfect it's not supposed to be easy you will have challenges the quicker you face up to them and say right right how do I you know how do I how do I deal with that's what that's what you know that's what it's all about and if you're out there and you're struggling if you're telling yourself yeah well it's only you know a glass of wine well not a glass of wine two glasses of wine well you know sometimes a bottle all right actually like sometimes two you know whatever it if you're having one glass of wine if you're having to justify it yes to yourself perhaps have a different discussion with yourself yes if if you ever leave work go right and go straight home not drinking something straight and then by the time you've got home you've gone to the co-op and you've got yourself a bottle of red and you've justified that oh it's from chilli it's cultural it's special it's this it's that oh it's a 1664 this is you know then you have a problem with alcohol and it's okay it's okay because I've had one all my adult life and I've had the best life ever and like I say I big sympathy on that scale dropping illegal substances way easier than having to develop a normal relationship with something you're going to pass in the supermarket that you can pick up 24 hours a day I I'm glad I didn't have to do that work yeah yeah it's it's it's difficult for people to understand but again it's because no one ever talks about it no one will ever tell you the truth the truth is you get addicted to a class A substance it just creates so much havoc in your life in such a short time you end up having to get it out of your life because you just can't fight it it's it ceases to be fun life becomes so problematic and hard and painful you could one nervous breakdowns enough imagine having a nervous breakdown every bloody day it's awful and you decide do you know what I think life would actually be easier about that stuff in my alcohol this is why we herald it as the worst drug yeah is imagine you've got the worst drug in your life and you have a problem with it instead of helping you all your mates go go on Chris and they get another one down here go on no none of this giving up nonsense go on imagine everywhere you go shopping it they line the aisles with this poison right at prices that you can't say no to how could you possibly celebrate Christmas or a birthday without it yeah yeah I get I mean I I get approached by people and they run companies that deal in this sort of stuff right I'm I'm trying not to be too specific here and I say no I don't want sponsorship from you that's the top I don't blame them they're just trying to make a you know they're just trying to get through love and let's be honest fortunately most people don't have an issue with alcohol and that's fine that's absolutely fine really Chris really well okay if we were really honest I think there are I think a lot of people have a little bit of a problem even just with regards to the mentality that it presents like I say on a Friday that's what I hear from my fellow workers on a tough day that's what I hear from my fellow workers that's where they're going that's where the brain goes it goes to their coping mechanism their legal coping mechanism which is actually it's a very short term solution and life is long term if you want it so when you engage this very short term solution you are you're shortening your life yes and the quality of your life yes so if this conversation folks you're thinking actually that could apply to me a bit it it's okay it proud to see in my proudest thing I've ever done way more than wearing a green berry is I'm an I don't I'd never use this word because I don't believe in stigmatizing language but it for what for the purposes of this example being an addict is the most proud thing I'm most proud of in the world and if you if you have a problem and you can't say what I've just said it's because you've got some learning to do and it's okay and I want you know if you've got and I apologize if I used any stigmatizing language I was kind of venting from the angry child side I'm an adult and you know compassion is the key compassion is the key compassion and let's be honest being strict being a bit strict and saying sorry I've been straight we we like a bit of straight talking Chris I can tell that people aren't straight with themselves you won't get straight if you don't talk straight and it doesn't have to be folks you don't have to go to AA and sit in a circle and confess you know I actually don't recommend that's why I don't necessarily recommend anything that keeps you locked into an addictive mindset vortex you know looking at yourself um like you say stigmatizing you need to you need to you need to see that you're valuable we're all valuable there's other there's other groups out there there's there's groups that use a more scientific based approach to what people call recovery although I think we both hate that word and and it's and it's one day at a time will it will it will you get there straight as some people do you know Alex said she she just drew the line me probably knew 25 years ago my drinking was going to kill me still did it for another 25 years but when my boy came along it no longer became about me it I had to address it I won't say it was easy and I won't say I don't you know I'll still go out and have a few beers no I very rarely folks very rarely because life is so much better without it but when I go and meet the guys which I'm due to this summer and there's going to be 200 of us I'll have a few beers but you're you're not drinking to to dim anything well I'm not drinking all my own for a start behind closed doors you know I'm not I'm not I'm but I'm but fun enough you know I was just chatting about this today with someone so maybe because maybe you don't want to Chris maybe you actually don't want to it's being able to make a choice how beautiful to have the mental capacity to be able to make a choice for yourself at the time based on how you're feeling yeah that's the most responsible way to do it isn't it I've done two big reunions without just sober just and it and it's great because you can go and get yourself a kebab at 10 o'clock but your own your own in bed chatting to your girlfriend by half 10 watch a bit of tally have a nice night's sleep it's all gone down well then isn't it then you won't wake up feeling brilliant go out for a run and you've got the whole rest of the weekend to feel ace we all know the other scenario how you end up feeling and the kebab's all down your face along with a load of puke and the air in the air in my house growing up are you drinking too much what does the air smell like in your bedroom in the morning you can vary out with the smell of my childhood you can smell there is a definite smell that is left when a body has drunk more than it can process it hits the ether it's unmistakable so if you wake up and you're smelling that you are damaging your your your physical vessel you are you know you are drinking more than your body can handle and let's let's also be entirely honest you haven't yet realised life is so much better without that stuff so much better you will not regret giving it up you just think you will because you think you're going to miss out on something but how can you miss out when the thing that you think you're missing out on is like way better than what you're giving yourself now yeah and that's that's the point with my dad how do you how do you not you know to not enjoy the gift of your grandchildren to you know to be so trapped in an addiction that there's there's no love you know um that's that's tragic that's really tragic for anyone yeah and another thing because there'll be people going yeah well I you know I probably drink to it but I don't abuse my chill it's like it causes neglect when you drink you become neglectful and you can watch that happen you can watch that happen in a beautiful setting just in a in a pub be a garden and the children are slightly less relevant than they are in a different setting or they're you know they're to be pacified or put to the side that that in my book is a a type of neglect already where is your focus where is your focus is your focus when your child's awake and with you that's where your focus needs to be and just trying to make it clear that providing you know school uniforms and toys that's that's the children stuff is nothing that's secondary it's emotional do they feel safe do they feel safe like you know it was not a safe childhood unpredictable volatile um you know do you want to know some do you want to know something that will surprise a lot of people yeah the social workers up there it's either bitterfoot or balsa it's on it's on the seafront right it's got it's got a beach is what i'm trying to say they go along the beach in the summer removing children from their parents because it's illegal in this country to be drunk in public and in charge of a child so it should be but i've never seen that enforced anywhere i didn't even know yeah yeah i did some um i studied social work at uni and one of my placements was in north devon and sat down i was sat in a meeting and this social worker went yeah every summer we have a patrol that goes along the beach with the police because people just get out of their heads i mean we're not talking here having a a beer or something we're talking about when people are noticeably drunk and they got their children with them and yeah it's you ironically you can be slaughtered and lying on the floor in your own vomit and that's not illegal i mean okay it's it's abuse of course it is and social work would get involved if they knew that but technically that scenario's not going to get you arrested but but but this one well it's it's a it's it's a it's a poison isn't it it's a poison it's um and the thing is you know it's not to stigmatize servicemen it just so happens those are my circumstances this is a societal problem the alcohol it's just that servicemen maybe um like i say i believe they've been let down by their employer and they're more and you're going to definitely have some element of traumatization even just through being conditions to to act like a soldier regardless of what action you see when you're doing your soldiering so you know the the risk assessment says these guys are this not guys obviously but this this is a vulnerable section this is a vulnerable employment section and um but no this is a society this is a society culture just look at Westminster for God's sake even during lockdown they didn't shut all their bars did they that's the way the power does their business uh you know from the top down we are it's instilled in us that booze is part of society so yes not just a soldier's problem so Alex stay on the line so i can thank you properly but for the purposes of the podcast massive thank you for coming on and sharing your story it's a very brave thing to do um but then maybe it's not brave maybe it's just there's so many people that are a bit cowardly about this sort of thing that would rather let the children be abused than admit i've actually got a problem or my parents had a problem or or or whatever but irregard irregardless or regardless whichever your choice of word is thank you very much thank you i know it's a credit to yourself that you've turned out so well balanced for your children to our friends at home if if if this is affecting you reach out to somebody you can speak to your GP although my experiences they will they very often just signpost to AA which it isn't always helpful because if you're the local bank manager you might not want to sit in a room full of you know your clients are going i'm of this i'm of that and but there are you can ask them for the the alternative type type groups um you can speak to life coaches and see what they recommend you could just speak to a life coach in general to get some some balancing you know into into your own own life you can are there better better in support groups or things like that chris yes you can reach out to there's a plethora plethora of veteran support groups there's many i know we have sat around here yeah there's many on on on facebook and this sort of thing and and um you can obviously just request for things to be dealt with discreetly if if it's going to put you in an awkward sort of situation um you can speak to people who have been there and just be open minded and accept that you have a challenge it's not a problem it's not an issue it's just a challenge you have a challenge that you need to tackle and then you can go and speak to your friend who's been there with an open mind instead of going oh without you know i that's not me i only drink a bottle of whiskey you know three times a day it's in we as you can tell we've heard it all before it's it the only person you're kidding is yourself and yeah it's it's sad i might i've said this a lot my two of my best friends i've got my little group of best friends in this life two of them drank themselves to death and it's in front of your eyes you see it you go to visit them that one last time and it's not it's not a pretty sight and you know you're never going to see them again well next time you're going to see me you're going to be in a box aren't they and and it's it's so unnecessary when you consider life is so much better when you don't drink it just is i i i fought to get alcoholism put on my dad's death certificate they didn't want to do that chris strange isn't it multiple organ failure always it was a bit of his art went or whatever it's like no and so i did have alcohol related condition or something vague that didn't just say i said i wanted alcoholism on his death certificate please so that because i don't think we're even recording or collating the statistical harm of alcohol well i won't harp on about it now alex but there's a there's a reason that they push alcohol at you cheaply all the time in short it's because it severs your connection with this beautiful universe and the sociopaths love that because they don't want you to know the truth in life they don't want you to know that happiness is just a decision in your head they want none of us want to be puppets do we we don't want to be puppets for the for the for the evil powers do we chris everybody you want mastery yourself you don't want to dance to someone else's tune make your own choices yeah friends at home please like and subscribe and support these chats because there's not many people talking about this stuff is it and it could be you this could be your children next and um it don't hurt to be a bit of a warrior does it much love thank you chris