 Okay, the recording is on. Good morning and welcome to BC314, our class on media and technology. Thank you for joining the class today. May I request somebody to please pray with us and we'll get started. Anyone? All right, I have to call some. Okay, good. Good morning, Father. We just thank you so much for this time and Lord, we thank you for helping Master Asheshech as he teaches us God from your word. We pray God that you would give us more revelation and Lord, I pray that whatever we're learning God that we would, we would also apply it and learn other ways to reach out to other people and to worship you, but better than, thank you for for everything that you're doing and Jesus, now I pray. Amen. Good morning, everyone. So in our course now, and our course on media technology, yesterday, we spent a bit of time talking about creative arts and how that could be encouraged in the church and then we moved into talking about mass media. We're specifically looking at four components. We're talking about print media, we're talking about radio, television and films, right? So we're discovering these four components of mass media. Now internet, we'll get into next week and from then on we'll kind of get into more details on things. These things so far are kind of like an overview and so again today I'm just going to talk to you about these things, give us a little bit of history and look at the pros and cons of what has happened and then from next week we get into more of the internet and things that we are more familiar with. So yesterday we talked a little bit about print media and we were saying that, you know, print media definitely has its place and it's still very useful today as a way to bring the word of God and to communicate to people. It definitely has its benefits and you know there have been organizations who have leveraged print media very well in their time, specifically the Gideons like we mentioned. They used to globally, they should place the New Testament in as far and right as they can, hotel rooms, schools, hospitals, so on. And then there's another organization called Scripture Gift Mission. They also worked heavily with print media, printing track, so on. Again they tried to do this globally and so print media has its place and is continuing to serve its purpose and you know we should leverage that to the extent we can. Now I wanted to talk about three of these other three aspects today. I'll put this down in notes. I haven't, you know, compiled everything properly yet. I'll put that in notes and then next week we get into more of internet and other technologies. We're going to talk about radio, television and film. Now when we think about all of these things I want, you know, today we take it for granted or maybe even we look at it as things of the past. Hey, you know, these things are old-time things. But I want you to think about how it would have been if we were there when these technologies first came out. So radio was back in the 1920s when, and of course all of these, you know, had their origins. I mean when I say Christian ministry making use of radio, television and film kind of all began in the United States and then, you know, spread globally. So back in the 1920s was the first time a church used radio to broadcast its servers, you know. And this was a church somewhere in Pennsylvania, if I remember correctly, the pastor. That was the first time that they broadcast live. They broadcast a church service live. This was in the 1920s. But I want you to think about, you know, if you and I were there in the 1920s and if you and I were the pastor of that church and we decided that, hey, okay, let's use radio to reach a few more thousands people. So it wasn't like a big thing. It was a few more thousand people will tune into this radio and listen to you. It is a very big step. So in the 1920s radio came in on the scene, one church broadcast its service online. People listened. A few thousand people listened. Wow, that's nice. You know, it's like, yeah, we can listen to a sermon on radio. And that's how it got started, got off the ground. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, other churches, other programs started coming on the radio. There were some pastors who were pioneering or leading the way in their radio broadcasts. And then initially, it was just a service being broadcast. Then soon, they said, you know, we could have music. So they would bring in a quadrant and choir or some people singing and then there was be a message. And so they started being a little creative with the programming that was being sent off on the radio. And then it kind of, you know, expanded from there that they would even have drama being enacted and that being broadcast over radio. And, you know, from their things involved and so we had radio coming in and then other parts of the world began to be reached. Interesting development subsequent to that was shortwave radio. Shortwave radio could travel long distances, but people had, you know, people would tune in to that particular frequency. Now, what happened was this was became very useful, especially when you couldn't get into countries. So the Far East Broadcasting Association, FIBA, it's still there, but they were pioneers. They looked at radio as an opportunity for missions. That means if we create programming in regional languages and we broadcast it into the nations we cannot get into Middle East, Russia, India, we can reach a lot of people. We just have to produce content in the language of the people and then broadcast. And on the other side, if we make sure that people get, you know, the receivers, they can listen to Christian programming. So it FIBA radio Far East Broadcasting Association were among the pioneers to use radio for missions because you can now send your radio waves into those countries, the Middle East and other parts of the world, but it's kind of difficult to get in and preach the gospel and you can preach masses of people. So that was, you know, a very wonderful use of the radio in those days at that time. We're talking about 1940s, 50s on. So it became an amazing thing. For example, in a country like India, till today, we cannot technically, we are not allowed to broadcast religious programs on the radio for whatever reason, that was a rule that was made and religious programming is not allowed on radio. So in India, we cannot have Christian radio. You couldn't have Christian programs on radio. There would be exceptions, you know, like during Christmas time, they'll give 30 minutes, okay, you've seen some Christmas songs or something, you know, those exceptions are there, but generally it's a law as a rule, you cannot have Christian programs on the radio. But when Fauri's broadcasting, they said, okay, fine, you have, you know, you can't do it, but we can do it from outside. So they set up, very strategically, they set up these radio transmitting towers in other different locations, like for example, in Seshals, they set up a radio station that would broadcast beam into India, Russia, other parts. So they had multiple locations from where they had these broadcast stations and they were broadcasting into these countries. And those days, everybody had transistors, radio transistors, receivers, they would tune into that particular frequency, you can listen to the radio program, they would produce the program in the language of the people. So it was an amazing tool for missions. Now, today all this seems outdated, but I want you to think, you know, how innovative it was in those years, 1920s on, for the church of that day to start using radio as a means to not only serve Christians, believers, but also as a means for missions to reach other parts of the world. And it worked so well, it worked so well in bringing the gospel into many, many parts of the world. And then came FM radio. After short, we had this FM radio, of course, the limitation of the FM radio is it only covers a short radius. So you've had to have multiple, in every city had to have its own FM radio station. But the advantage of it was it was very localized. So you could have localized programming, every city having its own FM program or multiple channels of programming for its own city and so on. So many parts of the world where Christian programming is allowed on radio, that's a big blessing. But again, in a country like India, we have FM radio, but Christian programming is not allowed. So I mean, religious programming is not allowed. People might sneak in a little bit here and there, put some things there, but generally it's against the law. So again, FIBA, and I know FIBA here in India, tried to do something creative on FM radio. So they took, they bought a 30 minute segment on radio, and they, they didn't call it, you know, you cannot call it a Christian program, you cannot do Christian programming, but you can talk about values, you can talk about social issues, things like that. So they did that, and they were able to reach certain people. I mean, it's not directly preaching, but it is trying to talk about values, trying to engage your audience and then get them offline to interact with you and then use that opportunity to, you know, talk about spiritual things. So, but in certain parts of the world where religious programming is allowed on radio, FM radio, you have lots of Christian FM radio stations and the programming is happening and people are enjoying it and so on. So it has evolved over the years. People have used radio in very creative ways. Just point out something, you know, then there are these call and radio shows, especially the US. It doesn't happen in India, but in the US, so you can call live on radio and talk and interact and, you know, you can interact with the speaker. And I remember it may not be happening now, but this was back in the 90s. There was a radio, a Christian radio minister, Bob Larson. He had a coast-to-coast program on Christian radio connected, you know, so he would get on the air one moment. I think every, I don't know, so two hours every day, he would be live on radio. People would call in and on radio, he was ministering deliverance and, you know, ministering to people and so on. So it was quite fascinating, quite amazing at that time, but it was very popular. So Christian radio has served its purpose and continues to serve its purpose. Even today, parts of the world, people, you know, tune in to their Christian radio, listen to Christian songs and so on. Okay. So that was it. Now, following on the heels of radio in the 1940s came television. Now, we'll talk about films a little later. Films also started out in the 1900s, early 1900s, 1950 to 1930 was, you know, the silent movies. Those were the days when you had movies, but no sound. So that also started around the same time. We'll talk about it next. But so radio, 1920s is when Christian programming started on radio. 1940s was when Christian television started. So again, it started in the US. And in those days, there were three main people who actually leveraged Christian television. There were pioneers in Christian television. One was Billy Graham, the great evangelist Billy Graham. Second was Earl Roberts, the healing evangelist Earl Roberts. And third was a pastor named Rex Humbert. So these were the three people who in the 1950s, so, you know, television came on on the sea 1940s. But these are the people who are in the 1950s. They've really leveraged television for Christian ministry. They were like the pioneers. So Billy Graham with his hour of decision program would broadcast his crusades, I mean, the crusades on television, which gave him immense reach. Now, as it is, those days, you know, they had the crusades and stadiums. So as the stadiums would be packed, but the television multiplied the reach. So it was amazing. It was amazing. That means the crusade experience was now going all across the country and over time into other parts of the world through television. Then Earl Roberts was again a pioneer in the use of Christian television. And he was the first person along the pastor, Rex Humbert, but he was the main person who used Christian television to minister supernatural healing. So he would broadcast his healing crusade live on television. And people were amazed. And he was the one who, you know, he invested heavily in high end cameras of those days to get good quality broadcast, telecast. And he really pioneered Christian television in the sense of giving people an encounter with God and experience of his crusades. So people sitting at home can see, you know, healings taking place. The hearing of the gospel being preached under the big tents that Earl Roberts used to preach under. They would see people coming up with healing testimonies. They would see people being prayed for and so on. And so Earl Roberts pioneered the use of television for evangelism. Like Billy Graham, of course Billy Graham's crusade was slightly different. It was just the preaching of the gospel and good gospel singing. Earl Roberts was different. It was healing and miracles, which really got the attention of people. And Rex Humbert was a pastor who had a church and he would broadcast his services. So they were pioneers and tellers. Now, of course, you know, when, when I'm not, you know, so we shouldn't think that these were the only people when they pioneered the way several others began to also come in. Subsequent to Rex Humbert was the Crystal Cathedral, Robert Shuler. So his Avalon program, the R of Power, became world famous through television. They had the radio broadcast, but mainly for television. So his became very, very famous, the R of Power, Robert Shuler. So that was, it had a flavor of its own because it is coming out of this, you know, what do you call it, very grand setting, the Crystal Cathedral in California. His Avalon program and there was good singing and he also preached a very positive message. You know, that's controversial. People, you know, agree, disagree, whatever. But it was very interesting. And Robert Shuler also did something very important. This is just a side note. He was the one who pioneered parking lot services. So, and this was in California, where he's Garden Grove, California, where he said, you know, he realized that there were a lot of people who would love to come to church, but they didn't want to be associated with that. So he said, Hey, you come to the parking lot. I will, you can sit in your car and listen to the message and go. So kind of the first time this was back in the 50s and 60s parking lot service. So basically his goal was reach people. Hey, if you're comfortable coming and sitting in the parking lot listening to the service in your car, that's fine. You know, at least they came, at least they heard. So he was thinking out of the box and really did interesting things. So people come in the cars that sit in the cars, experience a service, listen, watch, go. And of course, the Christian cathedral was there, but from there, eventually they would decide to come to the church, you know, and come to church and be a part of it. But anyway, so let's talk about Christian television. So a lot of other people started coming on Christian television and then we saw the emergence of Christian television networks. So, you know, as a television spread worldwide, you know, of course, other countries started having their own Christian programming around this time, Yungi Cho also leveraged television in a very, in a different way. He leveraged television, close circuit television to expand the audience, the number of people who could participate in this church service. So he connected multiple buildings through television. This is in the 80s. And so what was in one service was being experienced in multiple facilities, buildings through television. So he pioneered like that. You know, so today we talk about satellite churches, but Yungi Cho did it, you know, back in the 80s. He used television in that way. And these are people who are thinking out of the box and not afraid to use media and technology in different ways. You know, in their times, it was really innovative. They were taking a step in experimenting with the technology that was available for them at that time. Today we look back and say, oh, yeah, that's normal. We do it all the time. But for them, it was all very new. So the next thing we see happening are these television networks. So the pioneer in setting up a TV network was CBN. And what is interesting, the Christian broadcasting advocates going on till today, right? So this was set up in the 1960s, Pat Robertson and the Christian Broadcasting Network. They're the first 24 hours, seven days a week Christian programming. This is a network dedicated to Christian programming. And then after that, you know, they came, we had there were TVN, Trinity Broadcasting, then PTL, and so many others came after that. But Pat Robertson's CBN, Christian Broadcasting Network, which is going on till today, was like the first TV network pioneering, you know, so they covered all of the United States and then slowly expanded elsewhere. So TV networks, Christian TV networks were being set up. But sadly, what happened is the use of mass media that is radio and television, it expanded the reach of, you know, these ministers and ministries. In one sense, it was good, meaning, yeah, you could reach more people. But it also became a means for fundraising. You know, I'm just mentioning a little bit about something that went wrong. Okay, I'm not, I'm not putting down any ministry. I'm not putting down the use of technology. I'm just saying something went wrong while this was happening. So it meant that more money can come in. Because now you're reaching so many people through mass media. And so eventually some of the things that, you know, the negatives, the things that happened, was huge amounts of money were being raised through radio, through television, especially through television. And that money was being used to build, you know, people said their own empires, these ministries that were very popular. They began to build big, big, you know, ministries because money was flowing in and they're reaching millions of people through mass media. But it also led to the downfall of several ministries. You know, I'm just putting in a note there because that was that's what happened historically. So PTL, television network was one of those that experienced, you know, a huge downfall and it brought a bad name. It brought a bad name to the Christian world. People said, oh, you know, these preachers are on television, just to raise money and all those things, you know, so it was, you know, radio, television had its benefits, but then these were some of the things that happened along the way. Some of the major people, so Jimmy Swaggered was one. Again, today Jimmy's, you know, Jimmy Swaggered is still preaching. He is in his 80s now and I respect him as a man of God, and he's still preaching wonderful, wonderful man of God. But back in those days, he was one of the most, like after, you know, it's like a next generation of television preachers, you know, after Billy Graham, Ronald Roberts, you know, Jimmy Swaggered. He had a powerful television ministry, but then he got into moral failure, and that again, brought a big bad name to the church. Now, of course, he repented, he was restored and he continued to ministry and he's still ministering today. So nothing against him. I'm just saying what happened. So that was, you know, so around the 1980s, specifically, end of the 80s, early 90s, Christian television, mainly Christian television, got a very bad name because of these things. So, well, it was, it was serving many people. This was one of the drawbacks. And just one more point before we talk about films is that what eventually, I mean, ultimately, when you look at the big picture, the big question to ask was, who were the people being ministered to? And the majority of people who tune into Christian radio and Christian television, majority audience were already Christians. So the shift became more of, we are ministering through, we are ministering to people are already saying, that means it became more of a feeding, nurturing, discipling tool, because that was the majority of the audience, as opposed to being an evangelism tool or a missions tool. And that seems to have become like a set trend in Christian radio and television. That is, you're actually becoming a medium to the church, not so much to the unchurched. There will be the little, you know, the new people will tune in out of curiosity. That's always there, but the majority of the over 90% of the audience is Christian. We're tuning in to Christian radio and Christian television. So we're putting money back into the church, not so much into evangelism and missions. So that's a second thing, a side note that we have to keep in mind of what has happened with radio and television over the evolution of this use of this technology. The last thing which has, again, we're seeing it in many parts of the world is that it has become politicized, which means, sadly, this mass media platform is now being used as a vehicle for political agendas. And that's a very disturbing trend that now people are using the media of Christian radio, Christian television, not just for the preaching of the teaching of the Word of God, but now to promote political agendas and political ideas. And that has become a very disruptive or a disturbing trend and again, a negative that I would point out as what has happened, right? So that's the state of things. Now, let me just talk a little bit about Christian films and then, you know, we'll have a time of discussion. So along with the innovation with radio, with television, that we say, okay, TV, TV networks, cable TV, all these things came on. Along with that came Christian films. Now, what is interesting is, you know, and many of us may not have experienced this, but initially in the, you know, in the till about 1930, so about 1950 to 1930, there were only silent movies. That means there was video but no audio, right? And I think I've only seen a small clip of those kinds of movies, but it's very hard for us to imagine sitting in front of something and just watching something without any audio, without any sound. But that was how movies started. So till about 1930, there was video, I mean, there was film, but there was no sound. They were called silent movies. And, but very interesting is that in that era of silent movies, they were, again, again, this all started in the US and then spread to the world because they began to use technology early. There was an American film producer and his name is Cecil Blount de Mill and you can read him up on the internet. I'll put it in the notes and give it to you. But this American film director and who was kind of today known as the, he's known as a pioneer in the film industry. He was not a Christian. Actually, he produced a lot of bad, you know, what we will call as a worldly movies. That was what he was doing mostly. And he was a pioneer producer, director in the film industry. And for whatever reason, and for whatever reason, he produced two initially, initially, he produced two Christian movies. That was in the silent era. I mean, these were silent movies, no audio. His first Christian movie was The Ten Commandments. It was a silent movie. And this was produced in 1923, 1923, Ten Commandments, Story of Moses. But that movie became a hit, a Bible movie, silent movie produced by, you know, directed and produced by person. It was not a Christian. I not a believer. It became a hit. And for 25 years, it had the highest revenue making, it was the highest revenue making film produced by, this was produced by Paramount. So he started this Paramount films. And that was The Ten Commandments silent movie. Then he produced other movies. He produced another silent film called King of Kings, Story of Jesus, just before his crucifixion and resurrection, the King of Kings. And then he produced Samson and Delilah. That was a sound film. Right? So he produced two silent films, Bible, I'm talking about Bible. He produced a lot of other worldly movies. I'm not talking about that. I was talking about the Bible based films that he produced, The Ten Commandments, King of Kings, these two silent films. And then he produced Samson and Delilah, which was a sound film. So this was 1949. So in the 1920s, you know, it was silent films. 1949 he produced, by the time technology had advanced, they were able to blend audio and video. So he produced Samson and Delilah. But the point is this, that kicked off a very interesting trend of saying, Hey, let's produce Bible stories as films. So there are many, many people have done films, but the most notable is the Jesus film produced by Campus Crusade, right? It was such a powerful tool for evangelism, powerful tool. So the Jesus film produced by Campus Crusade has been translated or produced. It based on the Gospel of Luke, the story of Jesus has been translated into more languages than I think any other film. And in those days, remember, you know, those back in those days, I mean, you also know the way the technologies evolved. They had these big reels, then you had the video cassettes. And now, of course, everything is digital. But this film has stayed the course. And it became a very powerful evangelism tool when it was first produced, right? So you could go into, you know, a town, show a Jesus film, and tell, Hey, who wants to follow Jesus, or preach a gospel message, or you can go to a village, show the Jesus film in their language, and tell the whole story of Jesus, you know, so it became such a powerful tool. And it, you know, today, maybe it's not that powerful, that well known or that you that well used, but it served a huge, it served, you know, it had a major impact for decades across the world, because it was translated into so many languages. So Jesus film. And this subsequently, we've had, you know, many of you know, the passion of the Christ, which was released again. And then, you know, through secular media in general films, that had a big impact. And, you know, people have different opinions about it. But that was, again, you know, the story of Christ's production of contemporary way. And then notably, is the a local church in the US, Sherwood Christian Center, I think it is, who have started producing Christian films, and they produce many facing the giants, fireproof, courageous, many of you may have seen these Christian movies. But now these movies were catering more to the church than to it was being, you know, it was being used to communicate messages to the church. The church itself was the main audience. Now, of course, there would be people from outside would come and see it. But the main audience of these movies produced, you know, when talking about facing the giants or fireproof, courageous and prayer. They're pretty recent movie on prayer. So they produce many, many, and this was coming out of a local church. The main audience now has shifted to being the church, as opposed to being out in the world. But there would be, of course, some non-Christians coming and seeing those movies. And then what's happening now, of course, is these, from there came the television episodes, the television series. The chosen is now, that series is the short films is now having a good impact. But again, it's more for the church. And some amount of evangelism is happening. But again, primarily, it's focused on the church. So films has, you know, again, made its journey. And we just have to see now where to think now and how all of this can be leveraged. And you and I have to think about how all this can be brought together in the platforms that we are engaging, which is the internet. So we will pick up talking more about the internet on that next week. But we've got this whole concept of radio, that is audio, television, films. Of course, over time, the platform has changed. The way this is being delivered has changed, is being adapted to the internet. So these have served its purposes. Now, I'm not saying films will go away, but we have to adapt now to the way people are consuming content in today's world. Right. So this was just a little bit of history so that you know, okay, we've journeyed through all this in the use of media and technology. And today is where we are, we, you and I, we have to think about, okay, how do we take this forward? God has done amazing things in the past that people have used radio, television, films to impact the world and also the church. So it has served its purpose. But you and I here today, and we need to think about going the future. Where do we go from here? Okay. So let me pause here. I think I've spoken a lot. Let me listen to you first for some time. Your thoughts, your comments, and your reflections. You know, what are the positives and negatives? And maybe also share your thoughts on, okay, so having made this journey, where do we go from here? Right. Well, you can just share your thoughts and we will continue this next week where we make our shift now to do the internet and how that's made a difference and how all of this has to come to a different platform. Right. So your thoughts, please, we've got about 10 minutes. So we just love to have some discussion on this. Or if you have any questions or comments. So do those radio and television still carry a lot of influence? Or so if you had to make a choice in investing money to, you know, should I use radio? Should I use television? Or do I do something else? How would you do it? Okay, Christopher, please go ahead. I've raised your hand. Oh, yes. Thank you, Master. I was just, I guess, I'm going to wonder and why, you know, in India, there is no Christian content allowed in radio, yet on television, I would go more sophisticated and medium. There is, you know, there are channels that are not permitted to cover different religious faiths. Just a question, I just want to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, even I thought about it, you know, I think the only reason is a rule was made back when, I don't know, the Federal Communications Agency, whatever, a rule was made and they just stuck to that rule. They never changed it. So because I remember when we in 2001, we wanted to get on radio, and they, the radio station gave us this rule, they showed print, gave us a print out of these things. Hey, this is the regulation, no Christian thing on radio. And I couldn't understand it because, hey, we were on cable TV, and you can't put us on radio. No, cannot. This is the rule. This is an Indian government rule. And no reason, no reason, right. The only, so my thought is that it was a rule that was made many, many years ago, and they just stayed with it. Nobody is thought of changing it. I don't know, because it doesn't make sense because now you can be on radio or on television, sorry, or on the internet, full freedom to do religious programming, whereas not on radio. Even I didn't understand it, but that's the rule. Russian? Faster, I've heard there are some radio, local radio stations called Vishwani and all. So, I mean, they'd preach the gospel too. So I don't know how they got into the access. And second thing, I believe that the better way for us to minister through television would be instead of asking people donations and offerings, we can raise support by within the church that we are part of so that we can reach through the television, so that not just, we don't get accused of money making, something as a money making thing. It would be better that we raise the support, the financial support within the church and reach out to the people through the medium of television. That would be a better way, I think. Yeah, good. So Vishwavani is one of those classic examples where the programs are produced locally in Delhi and other places, but they are broadcast from outside India. So, they're not broadcast from within India. The TV, I mean, the radio broadcast stations are outside, maybe in Seshals or somewhere else, but the programs are produced in India. So even we as a church, I think for maybe for one or two years, we produce radio programs in Bangalore, but through FIBA, they were being broadcast from Seshals back into India. So if you produce a program in Bangalore, it would go out and it would be broadcast back into India. So that's what Vishwavani is doing. So it's not like they're producing the content in Delhi, but it's being relayed from outside. So they produce in many different local languages in India, bring it back, broadcast it back from outside. So that's how they work. And I agree with you that fundraising, the local church can give money and use it to carry out the radio programs. Mangi, Asha, you have some comments. Thank you, sir. If you can understand well, the regulations affects the established registrations. Has any church in India tried to start or establish their own registration? And does the government not prohibits a church or a Christian institution to start the radio? Yeah, you cannot. A religious organization cannot set up their radio station. Yeah, they cannot have radio programs. They cannot have radio stations, but you can have your cable networks and all that TV networks, but you cannot do, you won't get permission to set up radio. Again, like Christopher asked, it's kind of a funny situation, but that's it. That's the law. Asha, you had something to say? Asha, I just had a question to be clarified. People who are making films and at our home, we are normally on PG, parental guidance, but some of them are not really appropriate and like such as Fade Like Potato, they have all like foul language and it's like they're trying to put like Christian basin also, but at the same time, the way they make the movies, not like you want to hear the words or how, because we didn't grow up listening to our words and suddenly hear it comes and all this stuff. So I'm like, just wondering because present days, like when they make the movies and all, they want to add some part of the worldly stuff. And then so for that, like, how are we going to like, like this? Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, I understand. So I think there are two ways to look at it. One is if you can look at it from the perspective, they're trying to make it real. Like, hey, this is what happens in real life. So they try to capture some of the things, not everything, but some of the things. So you'll have scenes where people are drinking alcohol or, you know, in a story like Fade Like Potatoes, they may, they may be a little bit of violence. They may be a little bit of, like you said, foul language. And I think if you look at it from the perspective, they're trying to portray real life, you know, so that's there. But then how much of that should be allowed in a Christian movie? So on. That's one side. Then the other side is, of course, if you look at it from a Christian, completely Christian point, you say, Hey, no, no, I cannot accept this. This should not be in a Christian movie. So, you know, it is always a struggle. And as you point out, it's always a struggle to find the balance. You know, how do I make it real life? Because the movie has to portray real life. That is what actually happens in real life. That is all of these evil things. And yet at the same time, I've got to bring out a biblical message. So, for example, the movie of Samson and Delilah, it is like, if somebody looks at it, it's like, Hey, this is a completely worldly movie. But hey, that story is in the Bible. They're trying to portray it. But then how much of, you know, what Samson and Delilah would, you know, how much of that should be portrayed? How should it be portrayed? That's a struggle. You know, and I think that is a big challenge for those who do these things to produce movies. Now, of course, the movie Samson Delilah was produced by an unsaved person, so he didn't care. But if it's a Christian producing the same, a believer producing movie, you know, okay, story of Samson Delilah, this is what actually happened. How do you communicate that? How much of it should be captured? It's a big challenge. It's not easy to answer those questions. But I think, in all things, there has to be modesty, there has to be decency, and yet there has to be accuracy, meaning this is what actually happened, right? So that putting it all together is not easy. It's something people struggle with. And different people take, you know, a different middle ground, so to speak. Okay, last question. Last comment here over time. Roshan. Thank you, Pastor. In regards to Christian movies, I suppose that how the conclusion of the movie is what matters. And I feel it's not wrong in the sense, like to show violence and all those things, because for example, in the movie, of course, on the switchblade, you see reality. I mean, that's what happened really. And that's how the issues that the world faces. But then, when you see the conclusion, the gospel being preached and the lives being transformed. So I believe that how is the movie concluding? Because today's movies, some of the movies like, you know, they end in a very different tone, where the biblical values are not being presented, the current movies, but the old movies like the cross and the switchblade and some of the Christian movies, they're really good, like the conclusion of the movie and very meaningful. Somehow we have to really work on, I feel that the way we present it, so that the gospel is preached properly, the message is conveyed properly and the values of God are conveyed properly. Yeah, yeah. That takes a lot of thinking, where you want to make the movie very captivating, impactful, and yet you want to keep it clean, you want to keep it real life. And so putting all this together is not easy. And where do you draw the line? Where do you, how do you capture each scene? It's not easy. But I think we need to, you know, God will anoint people to do those kinds of things. Yeah. So it's time to wrap up the class. I will, just a personal thing, I'll make this comment, which will kind of lead us into next week's class, which is, you know, when we started on television on God TV, we started on in 2012. So God TV called us, God TV Asia called us, they said, hey, we want you to be on God TV, we want you, you know, you're the ministry to be there. So 2012, that was great. We started our weekly telecast and God TV covering Asia. But then as we progressed, I realized that more and more people are moving to the internet, the television is no longer the main way people are going to communicate. And the problem with television is, you know, if our telecast comes, which was coming at nine o'clock in the evening, you have to sit in front of the TV at nine p.m. and watch it. Whereas on the internet, you everybody watches whenever you want, you know, it's the same content, but you can watch it at nine in the morning or on any day of the week. And so I began to see this shift of, you know, of into the internet, taking more and more social media internet, YouTube, taking more and more importance in the lives of people in the way it was being consumed. And so in 2019, in September 2019, it was just seven years into our being on God TV, we said, hey, this year we're getting off of God TV. So I told, you know, we had a team of people, I said, guys, December 31st is the last broadcast on God TV. We are going to come off it. Why? Because there's a shift. We are seeing a shift in how people are consuming content. The TV will not go away, it'll be there, but the convenience of consuming content on demand is superseding what's happening on television, cable TV and TV networks. So we came off God TV December 2019 and our focus shifted to delivering content on digital platforms like, you know, through YouTube and others. So that's what we're going to focus on next week and talk about that. Okay. So let's pray, let's close. And Alfred, you want to talk to me after class? Sure. I'll be there. We can talk, right? Okay. Could somebody pray and we will close. Please go ahead. Thank you. Precious Father and my King and my Lord and my Savior and our Worshiphood. We are looking into you, Lord Master, and we thank you, Father God, for releasing the wisdom and grace into our life for God. We pray that Father God, whatever we receive today, Lord Master, if we implement in our life, and we pray that Father God so that we can able to produce fruit of Father God through our life, through our lifestyle, through our behavior, through Lord Master, through everything what we do. So that Father, the gospel should be manifest through us for God. We should not be just a hearer of your word, but we should be the doer of your word of Father God. So we pray that Father, whatever wisdom we receive today, Lord Master, let we able to implement, let we able to manifest in our day-to-day life for God. We thank you, Father God, for Pastor and Father God, for enabling him to release these words of wisdom into our life for God. We thank you for each one of our life for Father God, and we pray that Father, let us able to finish our race which is given unto us by God. We thank you and praise you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Father. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you, Rowan. God bless. Have a good week and God bless. Alfred, I'll be here. We can talk for a few minutes. Thank you, Pastor. Sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Rowan. Have a great week. God bless y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, let me turn off the recording. We shouldn't record our conversation.