 Welcome back this week to Toffee TV USA as always. I'm with you. I'm your host Ryan Williams with my co-host Hamez Boyman himself. Hamez. How are we this evening doing? All right, Ryan ready to talk some toffees for yes with all the news again. We've had this week. Yeah I know again the light news week However, we figured we'd take some time to dedicate this week to a specific topic And mix in in our own American style viewpoints So this week we decided to pick a topic that's very pertinent right now at Everton Football Club and that is mr. Marcel Brands The DOF that's right the head honcho. Yes, the man the big cheese the man with a plan. Yes Potentially, maybe maybe some disagree. We'll get into it. Yeah Yeah, so so just to kick things off. So we did see there was an article in the athletic today great publication by Greg O'Keefe Really respect the guys at the athletic talking about the the new deal from Marcel Brands How it's coming along and the long and short of it is that it seems like it's it's very likely that he will sign some sort of extension He's been of course made a member of the board. There were some rumors recently Not all too credible that Manchester United were perhaps interested in trying to prize him away from Everton Wait, wait, are you suggesting the English tabloids are not incredibly factual and perfectly accurate every time? That is exactly what I'm suggesting to you Ryan that they are not factual at all But to their defense, I mean it makes a good headline and I think I could see the logic for why United would want him The question comes can they get him seems like Unlikely but let's get into some details on Marcel Brands We're gonna talk a lot about his progress so far and compare him to some of his or some of the other clubs in and around In the Premier League and I guess the first question would be I guess the question of the episode is should Marcel Brands get an extension So it's interesting. I put a poll out on Twitter and it's almost unanimously Yes, and as of this moment in time now some things can change It looks like they're gonna wait till January to make an official announcement or to do something Specific, but yeah, it's a good question I think we talked a little bit about how to kind of judge that which I think James You know, we talked offline. It's not that easy, but they're probably some basic things we can look at Yeah, I think the first thing we have to look at is How what the situation at Everton when he came in and it's not that long ago But I think many people perhaps underestimate just how bad the situation was not just from a perspective of the players on the pitch But also the things that a director of football needs to be mindful of the finances the academy all of these sorts of other factors That aren't just related to Everton's performance in the table Which of course with bad and the second piece of that is his individual performance since he's come in how has he done? What moves has he made? What progress can we see from Everton? Have we advanced have we moved forward in this so-called project of far hard mature that has been bankrolling now for some time? Yeah, so I mean really the best way to start really is just kind of taking us back and putting us back at the end of 2017-18 and where we were is the club. I know that we're gonna we're not gonna say his name We're not gonna say his name. Anyway, no, it's it's worth thinking about because I think Actually wrote an article for toffee analysis at one point to say that it's almost a shame that we finished eight in a way that year Because I think some casual fans look at that and say oh, they weren't that bad But the results itself when you really look at that season that they weren't good I mean we finished on what 49 points But that doesn't really tell and actually most years 49 points doesn't get you eight But when you look at it and you see only 44 goals for that was what 1158 goals against that's 14th goal differential negative 14 That's not good. I know the table can lie others may disagree with that But I don't know when you start to really pick apart the numbers. I mean, let's let's just take a look at the attacking numbers For example, I mean, were we the 11th best tack really? I mean, I'm looking at that I think it looks like a relegation level attack to me. I mean granted Omar Niasi did score eight goals. So I mean, that's the linchpin of your offense But when you look at this, I mean we were 19th in shots per game with under 10 No one dribbled on the whole team was unbelievably 19th and dribbles 19th and successes passing It was terrible 15 74% passing percentage Just awful all these long balls third in the whole league just hoof ball all over the place yet 19th and long ball accuracy Just giving the ball away right and left 20th and crosses remember McKellar Teta loves crosses this week. We did find that out It's all then it's math Ryan. Right. It's just math, right? All the numbers really like 31 percent of the time Everton was in its own third That was 19th in the whole league 19th and bad touches bad possession team The numbers are insane to me It's not an 11th attack that we are very fortunate to shore that many goals and the sad part is I don't know if the defense looks a whole lot better Do you know and those numbers? I mean, they've been discussed at length, but just hearing them fire it off in quick succession And I remember because it's so it's such a vivid memory of yeah, how Painfully bad we were to watch how talking about teams being easy on the eye We were like gouge your eyes out bad and attack route one long ball No direction very little creative impetus sit back absorb pressure Just everything that the man who shall not be named is is well renowned for and talking about the 8th place finish flattering us. I mean, I'm just glad that we didn't end up with an Alan Pardrew situation Of course given the infamous eight-year deal in 2012 when Newcastle finished fifth when they're there underlying metrics were of course Really poor. Yeah, yeah much in the same way as the one year We made the Champions League in recent memory in our underlying metrics are very bad too So I mean you got to really take a hard look at things the defense is the same way We're 14th and goals against but I mean That's bad. It might have been worse than that though. It could have been bad. I mean we conceded 58 goals good for 14th Expected goals against 54.77 so perhaps a little unlucky, but 46 goals against from open play I mean, oh, it's one thing when you're conceding offset pieces and then that's I guess something worse than the only different 20th dead last in goals from open play could not defend an opposition attack to save our lives and furthermore I mean we gave up. I guess six 16th and shots against meaning there were only four teams that gave up more shots per match than us So couldn't stop anyone from getting shots couldn't stop anyone from scoring and then also I mean terrible 13th and dual success rate Fourth in challenge intensity, which is duals tackles interception. That's okay at least we're combative But I mean so what I mean if you're not getting the ball really back I mean, yes, we had a lot of interceptions per game too, but that's because we're sitting back We fouled a lot though Yeah, second and interceptions again, like it doesn't really matter if you can turn around first and foul So we're just sitting back fouling guys occasionally getting in passing lanes intercepting um 18th and aerial success rate I mean 40 43 9th and safe percentage So nowhere in any of these metrics save challenge intensity and interceptions per game and fouls Are we close to being a team that deserve to finish eight? No, it's stylistically too It's it's a difficult team too and and that we're going to get to that in terms of transition And how important that is when you're moving from different managers Um, especially in selling players and being able to transition, but yeah, and there's a lot more details I mean, you know the cumin the man who shall not be named kind of balance I don't think there's any real early reason to dig those things up I think one guy was very unlucky. The other was very lucky, but either way We weren't very good. I mean, I think that's there's only so many ways you can say that I think on top of that too and then then then looking at the financial situation that Predated that it almost makes it worse Yeah, I mean the financial situation diabolical Everyone knows the Havoc that Steve Walsh and Ronald Cuman tandem reeked upon our finances Spent overspending for mediocre players Unable to really do anything with the assets that we were able to sell which we'll get into in a little bit is a Huge component of being a successfully run club is being able to sell good players and then replace them appropriately And we're going to compare to some some other clubs that people may not Love the fact that we're bringing up on toffee TV, but Ryan, I think You've got to give Liverpool a little bit of credit for what they've been able to do financially And from a squad management perspective over the last several years now Yeah, I mean they've spent a ton of money, but they've spent it relatively wisely But they've not been perfect either and that's why it's important to have a benchmark You know, they're they're the benchmark right now in terms of Stainability, I mean it's not like Manchester United is not playing well just spends blindly man city You know, we're never going to spend quite like that not on their financial fair play anyway But if you look at that pre-predecessing year that summer of 17 that we're all Some were excited, but and the sad part is you know, here's Steve Walsh give interviews afterwards I have no it's Steve Walsh. I bet you's a very good scout all impressions. I did I mean he was critical in building that Leicester team But it was disjointed for sure and I think that's the biggest problem and and it wasn't necessarily cost conscious So, I mean we had sales of 114 million about and part of that was Lukaku. I mean that's great, right? Lukaku was a savvy buy and that's what happens if if he wants to move on Okay, get a really good fee for him and see if you can't replace him and build in other areas We paid we had buys of 183 million pounds that that that year Including 50 million bought in January, which is just madness But the bigger kicker is we probably added 40 to 50 million on the wage bill in the two predecessor years um So I think it's important to disassociate that from brands because we're talking about Marcel Brands here And so you bring up Liverpool and it's a fair it's a fair comparison So so I thought it was interesting at least to look at it's taken clop a while to build the team But let's look at Jürgen Klopp's first three legitimate years at Liverpool. You know, he started in October of 2015 So in the first three seasons comparatively speaking In terms of sellable assets because I think that's really important because if you're going to From Kuman to Marco Silva, you're gonna have to change some things they play different from that other guy to Marco Silva very very different, right? So yeah, you're gonna have to sell some people and move some people on so Liverpool in the first full three full seasons under clop 281.5 million dollars in sales But 261 million of it were players that he inherited that were just there Brands in his three years at Everton has sold 105.5 million dollars of players All players he inherited too But so a lot of this is there's kind of some mythology around Liverpool and their spending and that they've Done it perfectly. There were a lot of benefits that Jürgen Klopp walked into It's just a very different situation. I think comparison between the two is silly I think the other really big means of comparison is this the players that are still here right now And and you know Klopp's been there for much longer than Brands was there Um, and it's worth mentioning Michael Edwards joined about a year later So the big spending only happened under Michael Edwards and the big selling So comparison speaking in terms of the players that are still there that Klopp inherited Current market value. We're looking at six key players and several other peripheral players 277.6 million pounds of current market value for those players guys like Firmino Trent Alexander Arnold Jordan Henderson now some of these guys he brought along and that's worth noting too um Everton right now has 168.5 0.5 million And that's six key players But I think those numbers are very dubious because I'm sorry. He's not getting 16.2 million for Guilfe I'm just taking transfer market values when we look at this pickford Is not getting 23.4 million. I don't think we could sell Jordan pickford if we try no one could afford his wage bill I also kind of wonder who's responsible for giving him the extension, but that's another story but but the point is That's kind of the standard and one of the reasons why that team was able to spend so much Is number one, it sold a lot of players that it did need to transition to a new kind of way of playing and The situation was different brands did not inherit that kind of talent at all No, I mean brands was looking we were looking any any said as much when he came in that we're looking at He said if you want to win short term, don't don't hire me Right. And so clearly the mandate from the get go was to make this kind of a slow burn A project that would be built over several years And it is it is a little bit Unfair to compare because he obviously had these ridiculously high value assets that he could could sell and move on whereas we Haven't had that But I think if you if you look at some other clubs besides liverpool that are alongside us and compare them it's really interesting to kind of see exact because because When when journalists in the in the mainstream football soccer media talk about transfer dealings They generally just talk about like outlays and transfer fees And there's not a whole lot of of actually digging into the underlying financials and things like net spend if they they might gloss over it But it is it's so important when you look at how how Successful and winning clubs are able to fuel further business by moving players along That's wherever to need to look to get to and so Looking at clops first three seasons you look at you're looking or I guess the last three seasons. You're looking at 281 million in sales And then 261 a million of which are players that arrive pre-clob, and then they only they spent 392 so and net spend of 110 million. Yeah, that's that's critical So think about that so those sales fused fueled buys Of 392 million pounds Over three years. That's a massive outlay but again It's not hard to do your net spend is only 110 And as you get better you're gonna have to pay wages and stuff But that right there that right there is the foundation Of what they built and we'll get into that a little more detail in terms of the player by player thing But I think what's very interesting is let's look at sales of some of the other clubs that we're competing with We looked at wolves lester arsenal villa and west ham so Wolves and lester are higher than everton By quite a bit. I mean wolves basically had sales of 114 million. We didn't have that Lester has had sales of 212.4 million pounds And look, they don't have the revenues that everton have they don't But that alone if you can take that money and then spend it wisely You know in theory a good dff will improve based on a sale in theory, you know, some guys are hard to replace I get it. Um, and some of the other guys, I mean arsenal is closed us a 72 million west ham at sales of 83 million So they're not way out of the ballpark, but then you look at the buying and that's where things are very interesting. I think So we talked about liverpool almost 400 million after three years. I get it But like knowing that you're gonna have to buy players through tactics and make changes So let's take a look at arsenal They didn't have many sales, but their buys are 293 million. We had buys of 254 million You know what I mean? um And you look at wolves has more wolves had like 285 um Lester's right there with us at 252 and a lot of people would assume well villa hasn't spent that much 234 million and buys two over three year periods. I get part of that's promotion And and west ham is right with us at 243 So when you start looking at this you start to dispel this myth that brands have spent all this money because I mean He hasn't had massive sales for sure and the buys. I mean some of these guys are buying more but james I think the biggest component it is You start putting these things together and then looking at net spend We're not spending more than these teams. No, and that's that's the important thing It's like if you just take a number you say, okay 150 million It's like, yeah, that's a lot of money to me and to you But when you're comparing it to other primarily clubs, you have it's all relative, right? So if you're spending 20 30 million more than a club that's theoretically right around your level or competing for the same spot in the table Then you really the application of that money and how well that player performs obviously is absolutely massive And when you're trying to improve your over year you need To not just spend more but spend spend wisely and and brands has done an okay job But again the mess that he came into you could argue that I mean wolves are different because wolves have been spending They've got this ridiculous ownership structure and they're just buying guys They're spending even in the championship. So they kind of got boosted Their their squad was ridiculous and their wages were ridiculous even before they were promoted But in villa 2 and you also think about Liverpool I mean lester won won the title not too long ago and had to obviously profited very Substantially off of that. Yeah, but when but when Liverpool are spending they're buying A smaller number of players for large fees generally you're looking at guys like Allison You're looking at guys like tiago. They're not buying guys for 10 15 million very often They're spending 60 70 in a lot of cases and so you compare that to everton where we basically need an entire squad overhaul and I almost think we're more um, you could you could liken us maybe more to like an Aston villa who are They're the other extreme right you've at Liverpool on one end Aston villa on the other We're somewhere in the middle probably closer to villa than Liverpool where we need to spend wisely On and get big improvements in a lot of different areas with roughly the same amount spent So it's really hard to balance that equation. Yeah, I agree. I would argue that wolves team coming up from the championship was better than ours I mean, they certainly perform that way the next year, but but if you look at just the net spend figure Of the ones that are comparable teams wolves lester arsenal villa west ham Only lester's lower than everton. Yeah, so the idea that we're spending all this money We are spending a lot of money. So is everybody else in the premier league So it's largely a myth under brands. We're not talking about before brands. We're just talking about him. But yeah, I just think You know RuPaul Pogba out there boss man jr. On twitter said it very well If you don't care how old players are you don't understand what it takes to build a winning team What's very important is is if you're changing managers if you need to adapt to new tactics If someone just wants to move before you're at the loftiness of a club of a place like psg. We're gonna went Um, you know, you've got to have players of value if you transition at all You've got to sell people and get new people that fit tactics better Underperforming players still may have value if you didn't pay that much with them to begin with So that's why sales can drive turnover and make it so that those edson flows and valleys Don't don't hurt you as much. Um Now that being said that being said it is important I think a fair thing to do is to look at the actual transfer record as well from our cell brands because it's mixed But again, it's But it's got to be put in context too because it's not like so if you ignore the fact Do you realize that under brands are not spending more than anybody else? Then it's a very different context. So now you're not saying well, we should be amazing because we're spending so much No, we're not So I think it's then important to really start to pick these people apart and every gm misses and and I think it's important to get more right than wrong But I think liverpool this is where liverpool have done very well and I can't argue with it They've spent a lot of money True, but they haven't had too many misses that were big dollars right now. That's now. Here's the question though Is that because spending big money on players means there's less risk of them being bad? Is that it or is michael edwards just a Genius, I don't know. What do you think? I'm not going to call anyone a genius, but I do think there's something to be said I mean look at look at united Manchester united have spent over spent for a ton of players And I think that that's just other clubs being savvy to their the size of united's pocket books in the amount that they're They're willing to spend the key is and I think brands what brands isn't a really good job of is The negotiation aspect of it and in talking clubs down and getting lower fees for players But back to the initial point. I mean, I think I I do think that it's important to um I mean we inherited it was a really poor team that was inherited and It's easy to miss. I mean look at nicola pepe for arsenal has really underperformed They're every club every club misses in the transfer market. It's yeah, or or you misuse them I mean, I don't think that's the case of everton. So like if I look at liverpool for example You've got some misses there in those first three years. I mean grouchik karius oxley chambers and changer Yeah, the ox the oxley chamberlain is probably the only guy they spent significant money on that has not been great Um, and maybe liverpool fans that argue. I don't really give a flip, but they think clavin They sold for for a loss later Naby kata was really expensive. He's been okay. Shakiri for the money has been okay But then you got joel mattip for free. You can't argue that robertson was on the cheap But then then five so they we have them at eight hits four misses two maybes out of 14 players Of the eight hits five word big money So I I think they bought during that time they bought seven players that cost more than re charlison Re charlison is the biggest spend that brands has made and frankly we didn't even spend More than 27 million on a player Other than re charlison during brands's entire three years. So that's to your point earlier They're spending money on big players. So if you look at our record, I'm kind of curious what you think about it How many players we got here? I think we had 13 players at brands that brought in that's first team I'm not counting a loss. I just right. No, how would you um, I I don't want to admit their misses, but I'd say oh first of all, I don't think any of them are complete Another disaster like a pepe or a joel linton. But again, those guys joel linton's not a bad player But if you play him as a target striker, it doesn't make any sense So I think every one of these guys was bought for a reason. I saw the logic behind it So I would put our two misses is andre gomes And maybe part of that's injury too. That's just my opinion Yeah, and and alexa woeby who I dearly love but at least I understand why we bought him, you know what I mean He was perfect on the left side. They wanted him to compete for sigertson. He was great at open play creativity We needed someone to break people down in the final third. Our defense was excellent under silva. So What do we do? Um, and then there's some maybes in there too, but yeah And I think we're charlison dean allen and hamas. I think are the four that I would say are definitely hits But I don't think any of these guys are a lost case like would you say JPG is a is a is a maybe Yeah, I I think there's still questions to be asked about certain guys and to be honest even Even the guys that you have I mean gomes in a woeby as miss is Gomez we've talked so much about I know the problems with him and a woeby gets a lot of stick But woeby's still pretty young and can still improve so I'm not saying like and this is this is just kind of at this specific moment in time What do we make of these guys and I think To your point ryan, I think it's really important to emphasize when we were signing these guys There was a very clear Reason for it. There was this wasn't a signing where I don't think there's any single player on this list that I was like Why I think ben godfrey might be the one that that maybe took me back But even at the same time we needed that extra center back. Yeah, I was okay with him functionally I I think it's a huge overpay in my opinion and I think maybe we could have done more with the money But I get it. It's not crazy. He you know, it maybe he's not going to be perfect right now But what he's 22 years old, right? So it's hard like moise keen We send a lot of money on him. Is that a bad signing? He wasn't banging him in for us But he's 20 years old and do we think his value's gone down No, exactly. And that's the thing we will turn a profit on moise keen without a doubt And so there's a there's a there's one thing about a player being an immediate success on the pitch And then there's another about like are they a good transfer in the sense from a financial standpoint And moise keen is one that he may not work out at Everton And we said in a previous episode that we don't think he's ever really going to return But when when me inevitably or most likely sell him We will make money on that and that even if he never If his contributions stay what they have been I still think that's a win for us Even though maybe if we'd made a move for a different striker that had panned out But you can't get into this like what about ism about transfers It's just kind of did they pan out on the pitch? No. Well, did we make money on them? Okay, if we do then I say that's a win to me Yeah, and I mean it's a some of these guys have bought for a more long term viewpoint as well and I get it, you know And and this summer was different and for various reasons. So I mean we can get into that extensively But I think that's driven by managers, but anyway So if you look at the sales we talked about that a little bit I mean look brands I'm sure brands would prefer not to have sold lassic and lookman for example because they're good young talented players But you have to turn over you've got to find a way To get around financial fair play and buy players for the incoming manager and he got solid fees for those guys Ghana like we talked about wanted to go He made the deal that he promised to sell him provided He stayed in january when we still had a chance for europe. So And I mean, what are you gonna? The one thing that drives me crazy is I swear people still blame him Why because he didn't get a fee for sandro I actually would blame a little bit for that because I think sander ramirez is okay But I mean he sold morgan schneiderland for example when we badly needed to defense a midfielder Right, that was a longer term view. He knew we weren't going to make Europe at that point and we're in trouble I mean, but is it his fault that jenke toson gets hurt? Even though he sent him out the door and had an option to buy Is it his fault where he had a deal to take guffy to al-halal or wherever it was in saudi arabia And guffy wanted to stay. I mean Is it his fault? He didn't sell besik or belasi There's so much of it that he inherited in these contracts that right He just hasn't been able to move and I think that's part of what fueled perhaps the sales of lukman and blasters Is like you have these guys who are on reasonable wages young Desirable for other clubs to take on and develop Well, you gotta sell what you can sell to get the money in to to make the the moves outward or inward I guess that you need to so He's just been such a victim of circumstance And as you said like the injury thing you can talk about it with fabian delphi You can talk about it with jpg you talk about it with jenke It's really kind of affected the perception of the transfer business And it's really just chance at that point regardless Irrespective of a player's like performance on the pitch fabian delphi been hurt like the whole time he's been here Yeah, that's bad luck and we should we're getting to results in a second So jake holton out there who I dearly love since an addy's own the pride of since he Ohio No, his comments good. He said of course they should in terms of regarding to extending brands He's worked miracles to this point in terms of clearing out deadwood and upgrading the starting squad Hasn't hit on every player, but you never will also the reason we have carlo is as manager no brainer So the deadwood is key. I mean, I think a lot of people think he has done a decent job with that I mean some of these guys you're not gonna be able to move. I also think something that's not considered to is wages He's dropped them significantly this year the summer window. I think he dropped it 2.8 million I think pounds a year which isn't a ton the year before it's like 13 And I think the year before it was a lot even though he went back on some loan fees for guys like zuma But really it comes down to results and that's the question You know jay contends that the first team is better than it was. I I totally agree. We just went through the results in 1718 I think that eight that was not the eighth best team if anything it was more like a relegation type team And so look at what what marco silva did in the first year and you could argue whether that's marco Or marcel brand's buying re charlis another thing too brand scouted with charlis and up front Some of these ideas that this is marco's fine. There are no secret fines anymore really except for rare cases I mean I can go right now on the why scout and watch video of i'm dvr An independent day valley game right now in copa libre doors because I love that surprises me I love that tournament man. It's like my favorite tournament. It's awesome But I can watch talent from all over the world any time I want so it doesn't really work that way But but look I mean 20 goal differential in the first year coming back increased To 54 points One of the worst defenses in open play. We know we already talked about that to one of the best And look 1920 was tough last year. Um, we had lots of bad luck Um, carlo had us back into the european picture, but look injuries killed us So you can't evaluate that outside of context. We were number one far and away in the injury table We had the most major injuries of any team in the league by a mile I remember I tweeted something about it out there and it was kind of crazy The chart was stunning. It was stunning and marcel brand selling morgan schneiderland in a time where we couldn't afford to lose a defense Amid was fine, but that's one where you got to look at the longer view I mean he got he got a massive wage off the books and he got a got a fee from him so You know and look one thing people got to realize is we look okay right now There's been some hiccups recently, but you got to make a move on someone like marcel now You can't wait till the end of the season. He's gonna he's gonna arrange work elsewhere. Don't you agree? Yeah, I totally agree And and I think the last piece well, I think overall it's hard to I think there's been so much positivity coming into the start of this season with the business has been done and everyone was raving and I think Recent results have maybe clouded that perspective a little bit But I do still think that as far as the first team is concerned that we are on the right track to building a strong squad And I think we're better. Yes. I think we're I think we're better I don't think it's I think the style of football we played I mean the the attacking moves that we've seen this season are some of the best I think since roberto martinez Uh was in charge and that was an unbelievable attacking season and that team scored for fun so, um, I think the last piece of this is the academy which Yep A lot of people are giving him a lot of criticism for but forgetting about the the youth transfer band that he kind of inherited As well on top of the horrible first team squad I think the question is though people still look at and say god you haven't made Significant changes yet. I mean, I don't this one's hard to tell, you know what? I mean, it's really hard kevindore dony Has a really good line here on twitter that that we want to steal any consistent strategy It's probably better than changing every three years But this is a good one hard to tell how he's done from afar certainly doesn't rush things anyway, so He said himself. It's a longer term thing So maybe the right thing to do was not rock the boat too much and make change over time Unswear to saying some of the right things I cannot imagine. I know he's a legend and he was a fantastic player in his own right, but I just I don't I don't know if he's the right guy in that position It seems like and bringing back john ebberle. I think back as head of academy coaching is interesting I ultimately if a brand is going to tell him how it's going to be and they'll salute and execute the proper strategy I mean, they're capable individuals, but I think a lot of people see that and view that as a red flag Yeah, I think I think people were kind of hopeful that maybe he would come in and just clean house and bring in all his new staff But that that's not always the way to go like when carlo took over for big dump dunk Excuse me as interim manager. Yeah, he stuck with the 442, right? He didn't try to dramatically change things So sometimes it's the gradual changes. You come and try to rip everything out by the root and start from scratch That can be really I think disorienting for the entire organization People who have been in those roles everyone's down to the The people in the kitchens, for example, like you don't want to it's such a Gigantic organization when you try to make these wholesale changes it I think it's a lot harder than most people appreciate Yeah, and I'm sure there is some cultural changes that need to happen in stuff But you know, you know, it's funny. Everyone knows the sunderland till I die documentary and stuff Yeah I you know some of the guys coming in there I think we're interesting guys and you could tell that they Had trouble changing culture and it's so important to have someone at the top That's that you're on the full same page with to do it over time as long as you got that strategy And you keep plugging along and and so for me so in conclusion In conclusion, let's wrap it up. I think Marcel's done. Okay I think it's important to look in context and we took him four years at both az az Pardon me. Pardon me Europeans. Um and psv Uh, sorry to produce a winner and and it it's funny at alchymar. He actually fired kumin before he left That's pretty funny. Uh psv too. I mean, there were consistent winners after that point and he had hiccups in either place I mean at psv. He had him in the round of 16 You know at the time when he came out he was considered one of the top 10 sporting directors in all the world of football and You know, even though he had hiccups like az they finished 11th at one point Louis van Gaal Like tended his resignation brands is like, what are you doing? They stuck with him and they won the league the next year So it's a process. It's going to take time. Like he said, I think there's some So I I think a very good summary to this is Matthew Neil has one out here on twitter that we liked and in his line is Clearly made mistakes still think the squad is massively unbalanced even after two years But this was always a long-term project and it's taken him a while wherever he's been to get it right So for me, he should 100 stay on and get the project where he wants it. I I think you know, he said it's not going to be a quick fix I say keep them. I like a lot of the things he's done. I see a more coherent team and consistent strategy We still have gaps that's going to happen when you transition tactics a little bit We still have injuries, but um, you know, I'm excited to what the season remains We do have some key guys out, but I'm still optimistic I say keep them 100 I think And I think Farhad Moshiri really trusts him and respects him as well I think that really bodes well plus the fact that again, he was named as a member of the board I think that was a real statement of intent from the club that no question And brands as well to accept the role that he is here for the long haul. He's here for to build the project There's so much going on behind the scenes that Everton is regarding like the new stadium and all that sort of stuff It's a really intriguing project and I don't think Marcel I think Marcel would be the first one to admit behind closed doors that he hasn't Some of these guys haven't panned out the way he expected them to but As we mentioned earlier, there was a strong reasoning and rationale behind and there's a clear strategy That's being executed on I think people might have questions. Well, why don't we sign a right back? Why didn't we sign? Well, look the transfer mark is tough. You can't always feel you can't sign every position You can't sign 10 guys every window. It's not sustainable. No, and so I mean, I think I just think that I trust Marcel he certainly knows a heck of a lot more than I do about football and players So who am I to really criticize him? But I think as fans, you know, we watch weekend week out and we have these opinions, but It'd be Who would we replace him with? I think the director of football model is the ideal choice for Everton for long term sustainability and I think we're almost everyone Yeah, he's the right man for the job. And I think Carlos worked under so many different guys at this point I mean in some absolute tyrants If you look at his history, it's pretty remarkable He's very complimentary of brands brands clearly listens to him I mean this summer was not a very Marcel brands this transfer window if you've looked it in the past So if those two are on the same page and working together and like we've said the model works because The manager has so many other things he needs to be focused on man management tactics Planning the team training things like that you want them to be hands-on with the first team like that You want to let the sporting director in his scouting department find the people to match the needs Brands is clearly listening and he's and if Carlos happy he's gotten some stuff wrong I think recently, but I have faith that eventually He's going to get us where we need to be and I think that pretty much wraps us up Hamez if you want to take us out of here. Yeah, that's a very uh Appropriate way to end it. Thanks everyone for listening for watching. Give toffee tv a subscribe Check out our channel at american toffee podcast find us Link tr dot ee slash usa toffee pod. You can find all of our socials and all that good stuff Definitely check us out next week. We'll uh on the channel all that good stuff Hope you enjoyed leave us a comment below and until next time up the toffees