 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today is a super cool episode all about the gear of John Bonham, and I am joined by two Bonham experts. I've got Mr. Terry Keating aka Bonzolium Terry welcome And I've got George Flutus aka Bonamology George welcome to the podcast great to be here. Thanks. Yes, you're both return guests George you were on I think I called it the John Bonham episode, which was super popular episode. It was my by far my most popular episode and then Terry I had you on and I thought everyone knows this guy from Bonham. We're gonna do a different No, that was we talked about collecting and that was a really fun one Yeah, it was cool to get a different, you know a different side of Terry for that one, but so today I think it's gonna be really cool because we are Kind of going down the list and it's a gear episode. We're gonna be talking about John Bonham, Bonzol His drum sets we can talk about cymbals, mics, whatever comes up along the way and Kind of do a you know, no, I guess a definitive look at each drum set He was 32 years old when he died and you know pretty short life So let's just jump right in here guys, and I think George we're gonna start with you on his Pre-Zeppelin drum sets. So what is the first drum set we're gonna talk about today? well As far as I know from what I've read his first drum set might have it may have been a premier Terry You could probably confirm that You got your specs on now you could see me. Yep He was like 15 years old a teenager teenager with a brit with a with an old rusty kid I think he described it as mostly rust But the first kit that I've ever seen photos of Chronologically speaking was a trixon kit that looked like it was some sort of pearl finish like a a black pearl or maybe blue It's a black and white Photograph so you know you can't tell really what the color was but it looks like it might be a black diamond pearl kit And it's a trixon kit and he's all of about 16 and playing this kit, and they're the only couple photos That that I know of Pre-Zeppelin of him behind a drum set there No, it's kind of hard to it hard to believe but there are no other photographs of him sitting at a drum set before Zeppelin So that we've ever seen yeah, I mean that I mean that you know some might Yeah, and when I when I came across that photo there's there's like two photos of him at that time and he's You know wearing like a suit jacket in his hair. Yeah, right? Yeah, the guy that suits. Yeah. Yeah. He's kind of mod looking You know, yeah, it's it's 64 right isn't that one is from I don't know the exact year But it was with Terry Webb and the spiders and so who knows how long he had that kit, but yeah By the time he started playing with Zeppelin in 68 we know that he was playing a slingerland kit and It was thought that kit was maybe green sparkle Jason Bonham actually confirmed not too long ago that it was a blue sparkle kit 22 13 16 and He had a he had a supra phonic five five inch supra phonic snare And now I'm 400 and you can see some photos of him playing that kit From Zeppelin's early earliest tour, which is when they played some dates in Scandinavia in in late September of 1968 So, you know the band basically came together that summer August of 68 There's a recording of Bonzo with Tim Rose That's from some time in the summer of 68 before he joined Zeppelin and In that recording you can hear the drum sound is really similar to the sound of the drums on the first album So I suspect that this slingerland kit Was his primary kit, you know in those early days and up to the recording of Zeppelin one There was there's there's chalk in in books like thunder of drums and Maybe you know some other articles about Bonzo's gear that he had a Ludwig super classic. I think a green sparkle kit There's no evidence of that kit. There's no photographs of it So if he did have that kit I Just you know, I I don't know of him ever playing it on a studio session Without having photos from you know, the studio sessions for the first album It's anyone's guess But my gut feeling is that he was playing the kit that he was playing on those first dates with Zeppelin the month before Which was that slingerland blue sparkle kit and then you see he has that it through the end of 68 when they're doing gigs in England and then At the end of December 68 they came to America for the first time and so he had a kit That was a Ludwig 22 13 and 216 floor toms Black diamond pearl Ludwig now I don't know if he bought that kit or if that kit was like a back line or was a rental That he got once he got to the States with the band for their very first tour but he he was only playing that kit from the end of December last week of December Until the end of January, which is when he gets The maple thermo gloss kit. That's iconic, you know, very famous famously associated with that kit now Carmine A piece is the one who hooked him up with the deal with Ludwig And that's because they were touring together in January of 69 So he you know that black diamond pearl kid I mean Terry Maybe you can you know chime in here on that we we saw some photos Terry shared some photos of That kit as it was being prepared for an auction and it ended up going to the museum of What's the name of that museum M pop in Seattle? Robert plant auctioned it right he donated Right and and it was interesting because it was a 22 and and it had the the telescoping Legs like the big 20, you know, Ludwig used to do those on the bigger drums Sort of before they developed the longer legs for the bigger drum, but for whatever reason on a 22 there it is Two on each side and but this fella who sent me an email. Maybe what like maybe four years ago now Yeah You know, you saw the ad it was either online or something. It was one of the auction house or something There's Robert plant stand next to somebody and there's this Five-piece or four-piece kit. Actually, there was a jazz festival with it at the auction Which you can see the pictures to a black diamond pearl Keystone badge and So he sends some good pictures of it So apparently this fellow who this was who I think is in England somewhere Is like a known drum cleaner upper person, you know what I mean like a like maybe like an X-Tac for somebody So he totally like cleaned them up and then they and then they auctioned them off or they donated them or I don't know Yeah, I believe they were they believe they were auctioned and Paul Allen, right? That's the guy who? Ran the that's his museum the museum of popular music or whatever it's the end of that in Seattle Pictures, yeah, it was on display there for a while the kit was set up and it said John Bonham's first drum kid or something Well now that kid ended up going to the drummer Tony Newman Great drummer who played with he's on David Bowie's live album And I have some photographs of Tony Newman playing that kid and he talked about in this little Article about how he acquired the kid from Bonham. He doesn't say what he did with it But I'm assuming he must have at some point given it back to rock given it to Robert Plant or sold it to him I don't know because the kit was supposedly in Robert Plant's possession and Robert was the one who had it Cleaned up, you know and prepared for this auction it by this drum tech guy or this drum shop in England Our friend Billy Harrington. I think he knows who who that was the shop in England that did that work Another interesting thing is the snare drum. I Guess it's interesting to us because we're Bonham fanatics, but to the snare drum is a chrome Slingerland like five and a half like a what one of those Jean Krupa, you know Sound King sound King. Yeah. Yeah with like the three lines through it, right? Yeah, and you can clearly see that he's playing a metal slingerland snare on those early dates In in late 68 early 69 and then within a few weeks. He's got the maple thermo gloss And I I think the first gig that he played the maple thermo gloss kid on is In Boston, that's likely the first gig like sorry Yeah, like January 23rd somewhere in there 23rd 24th This episode is brought to you by sweetwater sweetwater just sent over this awesome brand-new Roland SPD SX-pro sampling pad this is so cool and has amazing sounds and feel when you're trying to do like snare rolls or Symbol work it just really picks up every little detail and the percussion sounds in this are super cool and very realistic Sounding whether you're gonna be flying solo and using just the spdsx pro or make like a hybrid kit kind of setup Or mix this with any other electronic device or anything else you want it is really the best way to go There's so many cool things about this But one more really neat thing is you can set the LED lights that divide up the pads to let you know Which pad you're hitting so you don't have to like mark with tape that which is which and this is a click and this is a Face drop you can just mark it with a customizable LED color, which is awesome So thanks to sweetwater for sending this over and sponsoring this episode Check it out at the link in the description of this episode and you can see the drum history gear page on sweetwater And see the spdsx pro by Roland and a bunch of other cool gear there So thanks to sweetwater. I also want to throw out there before we kind of move on just just so I don't forget about it I do want to mention that it's really neat with these photos how you said with the Slingerland kit About how you're looking at a black and white picture and you don't know what color that is like it's it's like I think it was green and then like you said Jason confirms that it's blue It's like that even adds more mystery to this kind of stuff that you yeah Someone had tinted the photos those photos are from a Danish. I think foot photographer Jürgen angle angel you're gonna angel. Yeah, you have one of those prints right there. I have an actual I have an actual Jorgen angel print here behind the kid. He's got the mallets. He's like, yes Right, right, right and so those photographs somebody tinted maybe that that very one color eyes Yeah, I made it look like or color eyes it and made that made the sparkle green So I think because it had been online for so long This colorized photo people are like, oh, yeah, that was a green sparkle Slingerland, you know We have like in some books over the years They did talk about a green sparkle twenty two thirteen sixteen that supposedly even some place Which was in England for a higher place took back painted it black Renata, I mean you heard that story went around for a long time. Do you remember that? Yeah, that would have been like the that would have explained the Ludwig kit, right? Yeah, right, you know But I just I there's never no pictures of that, you know, but yeah, but anyway, so back to the thermo gloss Which Billy what did Billy tell us about what three drums he got first? Are you is this a quiz? Yes You The three drums that he got first hmm, let's see did he get a bass drum? Did he get a 13? No, just the 14 by 12 and this 18 Yes, yeah, I got the bait one of the bass drum the 12 by 14 and the 16 by 18 without tone controls They did not have tone controls Billy said but the but the but the nine by 13 16 by 16 He got a little after that yeah, thanks that he as we see and the second bass drum and the second bass drum So maybe he got the the second bass drum initially, but just didn't use it because there's there's an interesting story and now Two people have now told me Through well John Hyde who's a drummer who played with the band detective? I don't know if you know about detective, but they were on swan song records and John Hyde is from the Boston area Or he you know grew up there And he said when he saw Zeppelin He could swear Bonham had two bass drums And what no, but what what location would that have been at the tea party? But it would have either been January of 69 or May I think of 69 and he doesn't recall the month He just said that he was playing two bass drums now at first I thought well Maybe he just misremembered that or you know because yeah there are a couple photos from the tea party gig in January of 69 and he's he's just playing one bass drum He doesn't have two bass drum set up, but another person recently. I think it was a YouTube comment told me that He also saw Bonzo at the tea party in January of 69 and that he had two bass drums Well, how do they do they did they did two shows they did an afternoon show and an evening show So the existing photos are just from one show So it's very possible that that other show maybe he tried out the two bass drums You know there's this there's this story about how Peter Grant and Jimmy like no one liked the two bass drums And they were like it's too much. It's overkill, you know lose lose it and When he tried using the two bass drums later in the summer of 69 He pulled the two bass drums back out and set them up and there's a few gigs where he's using double bass drum Yeah, like four or five gigs right? Yeah There's at least five gigs where he was using them in a row in in August of 69 July and August and I think that might be the time when Robert plant, you know set he he tells a story about how they used to hide Bonzo's other bass drum because he didn't want to play it So that would have likely been at that time, you know, he was probably like, oh, I'm gonna try this I want to try it, you know, yeah, and they're like hide Bonzo's bass drum quick, you know So much thunder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah now one interesting thing Terry you can talk about that is the depth of the bass drums Which you know for most people they assume Bonzo always played a 26 by 14 Yeah, well, that's the thing, you know, it used to be years ago before the internet and everything You always have is like books to pour over and whenever I would look at the Ludwig thermogloss whenever I would look at the kid There was only one picture I think I ever saw where it looked from the side like it was 14 like a standard run of the mill 14 by 26 You know what I mean? Mm-hmm It always looked deeper and you know, sometimes you'd say like back in those days I'd always say 16 But then later on somebody sent me some pictures of a 16 by 26 So I wasn't sure so then my theory for a while was that maybe the logs for maybe a year or so Ludwig might Put the logs as a different spacing, you know what I mean? Like maybe they were each look much closer to the ad so it made it look, you know But it just was always I know he's like God that bass drum, you know So yeah, I made videos out over the years George and I was we's up when freaks and always talk about you know Just that we'd say 16, but it just there was just something never sat well with it, you know So sure enough this fella Billy Harrington is playing in Chicago tonight in a band. He's on tour Wanton met with Paul Thompson Sat out interviewed him the interview went into modern drummer like three two or three years ago and Sure enough Billy Harrington saw the mystery. They were 15 inches deep. They weren't 14 inches deep They weren't 16. They were 15. There was a period of time ironically that back well that back in the day Carming a piece had had his specs with Ludwig. He'd switched the bass drum He wanted his 26s when he ordered them from Ludwig I don't maybe it's 24 to but his 26 is because he said he had a leady drum way back in the day That was 15 inches deep So he always had Ludwig do that. So when he called Ludwig and said hey, give him, you know my kit You know get bottom, you know, my kid. They were probably like, oh, yeah, okay Well 26 by 15 and then gave him these drums, you know the fact that he had You know a 15 inch deep I think the fact that that Billy was actually there to measure them in person is really really wild and great And you know Paul Thompson ended up with that kid, but I think Paul Thompson from Roxy music. He has the kid now and the Tom Tom was cut down that 14 by 12 Tom Tom The iconic big Tom Tom, you know, that was cut down And I don't know if he cut it down or Colin Fairley. I think Colin Fairley did he said he's fairly That's the drama came to him like that. Yeah, he right. So Colin Fairley had the kid first What was the name of the band he was with the something jug band string jug band? Yeah, something like that bunnies jug band or something. Yeah peepod carrot There's even a photo of the kid. There's even a photo of the kid on a single of theirs that we unearthed at some point That's right. Yeah. Yeah, there's a single like one of their hit singles and he's playing Bottoms kit in like 1973 or something. Yeah, and I don't remember if the Tom was already cut down or it was still But I think it was still 14 by 12. I think it was still big. Yeah, it's still look like bottom size It was a lot of I mean even at that point you'd think that you would realize the weight of cutting down a Drum set like that. I mean, you know, that's John Bonham's drums. You would think you would want to leave them Yeah, I mean early, you know, it was like 1970 71. I mean, we're big, but they weren't they weren't you know The icons they would become That's true. And I find it interesting that once Bonzo got on an endorsement Or at least got that maple thermal gloss kit now. He played that kit pretty much from January of 69 through Spring of 70 so not that long You know, really it was just over a year that he played that kid Was there a reason he didn't use them for that long or did he just want to move on to something else? Is that documented anywhere? He didn't like I don't know. I just know that I think he regretted giving them away You know, I've heard that that he like Ran across whoever it was he gave him to Colin Fairley or something and I think he sold them for like five pounds or something It was one of those those stories, you know, I who knows how true it is But yeah, he got my pocket. Give me your pocket exactly. He's like, oh, you know I got five pounds and he said all right, but I from what I've read he regretted letting them go He got his first green sparkle kit Probably in May or June of 1970 so they had finished their US tour in around like March or April of 70 and That was the last time he played that kid before we move on from the maple kit Maybe describe a little bit too about what his symbol setup would have been on that Terry Maybe you want to tell us a little bit about that what kind of symbols a little hardware He was a big swivemmatic guy, obviously, so what was he using at that point? Well, yeah, you'd see while you'd see that he I think you love the swivemmatic Hi hat and those and those what they call the swan leg symbol stands, you know what I mean? Like you'd see him in that one There's some pictures they unearthed when in the studio and bottoms either taken off or putting on his brand new 602 on the Rogers symbol stand, but yeah, I think you know when you see the pictures From whatever the Gladzax team club, you know September October 1968 your bottoms on those slingerlands And you see the symbols are I mean there's zillions you can see it was a classic zillion shape, you know but I think by the time he Got the Thermal gloss He generally speaking you see sick He's with 602's, you know when you see him at like the There is an interesting thing it seemed like in my opinion. I always say to George I've talked people it seems like he kept one of the zillions for a while It seemed like on his left sometimes it looked like he used to love having a 16 like in the early days You know and then an 18 on his right But I think that kind of went 16 18 and then he'd have a 16 and and you know There's sometimes you have two symbols on the left crash and even two on the right But I think so it was generally I think zillions than 602's he kept a zillion around for a while 602's And then when the giant beats came, you know, he got the giant beads You know and then went to the 2000 twos generally after that with the 602 every now and then keeping a giant beat or two You know, yeah, yeah, it's really hard to tell because there are no clear photos of those first from those first few months of His symbols, you know, like shots from above or where you can actually see the symbols clearly There is one shot. That's a color picture shot from above when they were on Danish TV for like the Danish radio and You know, it's called Dan Marks by and television special and that Danish TV shot To me clearly looks like the cult, you know, like the cult 602's have a certain tone. They're kind of a gold Light gold tone. Yeah, yeah, it looks like that. They don't look like giant beats giant beats are darker You know giant beats have a different profile, too But I mean giant beats have a distinctive color. They're more coppery looking Well, but the plus the bells are bigger in a certain way. Yeah, a larger ball But also to it that Dan Marks that's that's a 16 on his left Yeah, he's got it. Maybe a 24 could be a 23. You never know because they made a 23 then There was a an actual Led Zeppelin document that described Bonham's 602 symbol is 23. Did you find that George? You and I were talking about that. I did. Yeah Yeah, it did describe the symbol as a 23. It said 23 So he had a 16 on his left and a 18 on his right and they look bright You know gold so those to me, that's like and 14 inch hats. So, you know, Bonham is iconically Associated with 2002's he really didn't play 2002's for that I mean, he played him of course from about 73 onward But those early days, you know before they were made and even after he was using a giant beat ride for pretty much all of 73 and 75 Hmm Like he gets he gets like things that become iconic for him are because of like one super iconic photo And then that's what people think he played all the time. Yeah, he would mix and match I'm sure like, you know, the hi-hats that he was using Early on I think we're 602s 14s and then 15s and then he started using the sound edge 602s I haven't seen any photos of him clearly playing giant beat hats honestly. Yeah, I've done like a pretty thorough Investigation now, I guess there was nothing you see whatever I hear George talk about this I was thinking all their conversations. We've had did we ever, you know George when you farted around here This is a 602 15 inch hi-hats or your 15 inch giant beat hats and you play the intro to rock and roll Which sounds more dead on to you To me the giant beats always do yeah to me the giant beats do too, which is funny because at that time live He was using sound edge 602s and he was using giant beat cymbals all around 24 1820 all giant beats. Yeah, but the hats were always sound edge 15s. Yeah, well, you know, that's the thing an original pair of giant beat hats That's the thing original giant beat hats There's some that they're more in the zilgen sort of realm in the sense that there's really great sounding pairs good sounding pairs And then some than not so much you know, and they're also quite thin So they are typically dent very easily and I would imagine that even if Bonzo liked the sound of them It would have been like man, I can't use these live They just get bent up really quickly, you know for as hard as he would hit. Yeah, so so as far as symbols go Yeah, I mean I think in the early the the earliest days of Zeppelin likely a mix of Maybe zilgen and maybe even like British companies like Zinn, you know, like billboard from Black Sabbath played Zinn Ringo had Zinn symbols sure but Certainly by the time he's got the thermogloss kit and they're You know well known He's got he's using giant beats or 602 Giant beats came later the 602s. I think for most of 69 and then in early 70 There's there's actually a piste document that shows that he was given a bunch of giant beats in February of 70 Yeah, you're more likely to use your awesome new symbols and not mix and match when you're just you have an endorse Endorser giving you all this stuff. I mean, yeah, well, that's the thing to remember Ludwig in America at that time was the piste Distributor yeah, so if he got signed on me and I'm sure it was like Yeah, you're on you know the sim you know what I mean He was using the the 2614 18 setup for several months before he started adding the 16 So I think what happened was when they got through the Chicago area in the middle of 1969 He probably got a bunch of new stuff. He got some little bongos And I think they might be thermal gloss as well. He had a set. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He also had a 60 and now But you know and he had a 13 which Billy saw which we never see You know anywhere, but he had a 13 by 9 Tom He also got what looks like a whole slew of new 602s because there's some photos from Chicago Playground this 202s right out of the bag. So what I would love to know is did Bonzo go to the Ludwig factory here on Damon Avenue So I heard he did somebody said he'd actually really like somebody took him over there That would be really cool to know Yeah, as a kid I went in that factory because of a friend of mine in high school his father was a wood shop Oh I used to get discounts on some bits like sticks and drum cases Yeah, you're a timpani out the back Of all the things to steal a timpani might be the hardest. Yeah, that's awesome So then for the sake of time moving on to the green sparkle kit. Yeah, man, I love personally I don't know if it's because I saw this kid when I was younger, but something about green sparkle is just awesome I love it. I like blue sparkle. I have a blue sparkle snare behind me But it's like green sparkle is just something something special about it It's got kind of a holiday vibe, you know, it makes me happy just to see it There's also like two different sort. There's the more Kelly green Green sparkle the older days and then there's sort of the 1971 Yeah, kind of a more of a blue Minty green, you know, yeah, what's your preference? Are you the I kind of like the older Do you remember anybody from with currency back until back in back in the older days? The lighter green part of currency used to be more of a Kelly green versus the okay And it was sort of the same with sparkle wraps, too It was just more like a Kelly green. You know what I mean like almost like the wall behind you But yeah, yeah, then you know Ludwig and some of the companies Actually, I think um slingland stayed with that shade a little anyway Let's stick with the I am familiar with currency, but not that closely Yeah, all right, so let's talk about the green sparkle kit, you know, like I said He got that kit while they were recording the third album So I don't know if some of the third album was on the Thermal gloss kit and some of it was on the green sparkle or it was all with the thermal gloss and then he got the green Spark I don't know. There's no way to know that either without seeing session photos But what I do know is the first time that kit was used was in Reykjavik Iceland And it was sort of a warm-up gig. They hadn't played Live since I think April and they were recording the album the third album And they had a big concert at the bath festival the bath blues and uh, you know folk music festival was a massive festival And as a preparation for that gig, they did this warm-up in Reykjavik And that was the first time you see Bonham playing The green sparkle kit in fact the tom was not mounted to the bass drum yet. So he's got it on a snare stand Yeah, um, if you see the photos from that gig, you can see there's a spare Six and a half supraphonic behind the drums, you know off to the side and And then by the time they played bath, I believe the tom is mounted on on the rail But there's some new footage of that that is just recently surfaced, which is really awesome It's silent footage, but it's really great footage to see Bonzo's brand spanking new green sparkle kit in like very good quality because it was professionally shot But what are we talking about? Where is that footage? The bath festival? Oh, yeah, right, right Yeah, there's some brand new footage that just came. Yeah, that what that just was released like eight minutes or so of it Um, huh. Well the whole thing now. There's a lot of footage because there was footage, uh At the forum in LA that came out Recently, right that was discovered in Cincinnati As far as I am aware. So there's it's kind of crazy that that led Zeppelin, you know Has not been a band for a long time and this stuff has come it keeps you guys going Yeah, it keeps you guys on your toes. Yeah, it's nice to see It is nice to imagine that there are fans out there. Um, some of whom I know they're they're great guys young guys who are really They're like, um history sleuths, you know when it comes to Zeppelin They leave no stone unturned So, yeah, you know, they're they're just they're just putting feelers out through social media and stuff and people come up and just say Hey, my dad saw led Zeppelin was a huge fan. He saw him in 1969 and he's got some real to real tapes I don't know. They've been in our closet since I was a kid, you know Yes, and so that kind of thing is still happening Um, Terry, Terry, I wanted to give this one to Terry because I'm not really sure how many Green sparkle kids there were I don't think anyone is really sure but Jason is the guy obviously to talk to Well, say that's the thing, you know, honestly Bart, you got to try and get Jason Don't mention your don't get George and I mentioned because he might be like Are you the guy that interviewed these two freaking? Yeah No, so um, no, but well the thing is is there's stories of bottom of zeppelin being at headley grange Which is the house they used to rent in england? You know that being there and then bottom took delivery of a of a new kit they said Uh, and they said it might get loud. Yeah. Yeah, he says that it might get loud So he talks about so it's implied it stated that there's one kit there that they've been recording with And there's another one comes that they said that the road he's set up in the Um, stairwell, which is where they recorded the drums for you know, the um When the levee breaks and I think misty mountain hop. I think they track misty mountain Definitely Yeah, I mean, it's the same It's the same exact same. It's the same. It just doesn't have you know, there's not really the Vincent or whatever on it, but it's they sound same And that's and that's december of 70 january 71 So he clearly had he had a green sparkle kit as of june of 70 So he may have gotten a second kit. That's exactly so that's where I'm getting with I think at least it might have been two right two green spark I would think there was two there was a spare definitely a spare bass drum You can see photos of a spare green sparkle bass drum off behind the stage or behind the setup Well, it's funny. There was a collector that I I got to meet and talk to about almost 30 years ago now Who sent me a video of I had the video up on youtube for a while the amber drums You know, it's you know, the consensus now mostly Is that the drums he actually had that he purported to be bottoms. I think we're not genuine But he did have information That what he had always related to me said that there were three Green sparkle kits and I think that might be what jason said, but don't don't quote me on it I just recall Reading that somewhere and I thought maybe jason was the one who said one is with the family at the old hide farm still And another one is is is it at a museum somewhere? Something like that, you know and then but also too that he also said that one of the bass drums Was and he got the bass the drum set one of the incarnation the green sparkle was two bass drums A nine by 13 a 10 by 14 a 12 by 14 and the 16 by 16 the 16 by 18 You know what I mean like he supposedly had a 12 by 14 green sparkle tom Yeah, it's never been pictured with it was supposedly a nine by 13 Um, yeah, you know, but by those times too, you know, you always hear You know, there did come a time where bands got so good at touring and stuff Or you know, like so they'd be like, all right Well, let's keep one of these kits with shoko in the states We'll keep the other one in london for when we had and we record and we'll keep the other one Some you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean my my question on that though would be like Like was he like if you're gonna have three green sparkle kits He was clearly really connected to the green sparkle Look instead of like going i'm gonna get one green sparkle one red sparkle one blue sparkle You know what I mean? Was there a reason he wanted to get three identical kits? Here's the thing Um, I don't know. I I know having a backup bass drum makes perfect sense because he would yeah You know bust the bass drum had on the gig and and which which there's actually You know, it happened and there's audio recording of it where you can hear clearly his bass drum breaks, but Robert plans says Robert plans says something like you'll have to excuse us while we change the bass drum skin So I don't know if they had the backup there, but Yeah Very descriptive when they play. Yeah when they played in in milan In uh 1971 there was a riot at the stadium And the police sort of exacerbated everything by Tossing some tear gas canisters out and all stop lighting those fires. Can you stop lighting those fires? That's where Robert plan was told to keep saying Yeah, and it's just all all hell broke loose People rushed the stage the band had to escape For their lives, you know, yeah, yes, it's run for their lives You know and and the the equipment got trashed And you can see photos there's photos of the aftermath and bonzo's drums are strewn all over the place And you can see like one of the floor tom legs is like all twisted up So what's interesting is there's a photo of bonzo's kit from behind Where you can see the floor toms clearly from behind and one of the One of the mounts the leg is like this on an angle. It's not straight So that would tell me that maybe that was the floor tom That got damaged in the riot and they had to screw the hole Drill a new hole so it could you know, sure Wow. Yeah, so in that photograph. He has a clear head on the back of the bass drum And you can on the batter side you can clearly see through the bass drum and you can see the three circles And you can see that mist the mystery ring which terry and I have been You know racking our brains trying to figure out what kind of muffling That was on his front bass drum head. Yes, because it's either a ring or it's a desk or we have the new theory remember We're just sorry. Sorry. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, so I I brought this up on social media recently because I wanted to just Put it out there and get some feedback If you look at the front of bonzo's bass drum with the Therma gloss kit and with the green sparkle kit. There is some sort of ring going around The perimeter it is not a um You know like a power stroke As you would conventionally think of one because a power stroke Makes a particular image or You know like shadow or pattern. Do you know what I mean? Where it looks a little bit darker in the center and it looks white around the ring Bonzo's is the opposite bonzo's looks looks darker around the perimeter and bright white in the center so I thought You know the the explanation for that is it's the opposite of a ring. It's a disc That's like a 20 inch disc that cut out and glued to the head But then I thought that doesn't make sense. Why cut it smaller? Why not just double Basically double the thickness exactly. Yeah, um But but at that time there were Uh, it was a thing to make a ring and they called it a richie ring. What was that guy's name? Terry richie the drummer Richie ringman no No richie. He was he was born for it. No, but that's what they used to do They just sometimes people to take styrofoam put on the edge Or they get you they use pieces of but You know and this is funny though because there was a fella that was contacting me He saw one of george of my videos about the possible muffling system or the you know, which was definitely there You can see on all the drum kits this sort of what appears to be a ring or you know different color on the edge pretty Very distinct People will always say no man. That's a shadow and you're like it's not a shadow No, thanks. No what what it is. Yeah, what what what I think Now kind of what I think it is thanks to the this fella showed me a couple drums that he got the marching drums And inside the marching drums I think what a lot of people used to do in marching days is they just real quick with the can of either spray paint or something and they just go like And they kind of just put paint like here just a slightly dead in the drum And I think what conceivably could be with the bottom thing is you have the head You take the richie ring Set it there take spray paint and go Pull the ring off flip it over. It'll be whiter here and it'll be darker here You know what I mean? So that's that's what I I'm starting to suspect. I think it but you see it on the vista light Which is not a white head, you know, I'm not convinced on that but I will say this in those days terry Do you remember rough coat? It was an aerosol spray to rejuvenate drum heads RUFF Yeah, r u f f k o t e And rimo bought their patent and shut it down because they were my dad used to buy it I remember the cans of raw hyper cancerous thing that used to melt the hat a little bit and then no No, it was it probably was cancerous, but yeah, well, maybe a little everything is Yeah, but but that wasn't the reason for it being phased out the reason it was phased out. Obviously it was it was caught Putting a big dent in rimo's sales because people would wear out the front of the hat or the top of the head And then he'd be like, oh, I'll just spray it with rough coat and it was literally like the same coating It was a granular kind of gritty White spray paint. Oh for like an ambassador and emperor like a coating. Yes. Yes. I know what you mean Yeah, that could be it was a spray coat. So it could have been that, you know That's another possibility because rough coat existed in the 70s Although I don't know if it existed as far back as 70 And bonzo had something going on. I don't think I've ever seen a bass drum with that same look On the resident. Yeah, that's the thing. I have never that's interesting I mean, there must be with drummers like other way, you know, people might put the easy way put a rug in there Whatever or you know, people I don't like the way that looks or whatever um You know putting this ring, you know, maybe it was just something locally big Like if you look at other pictures of freaking Birmingham bands, man, you might seem to see a couple of the bands Maybe yeah, maybe yeah, you know, that's there's drummers are innovative And I mean what it sounds like is like, I mean like you said adding some thickness to it with spray paint or almost like like a homemade Yeah, there's also like a homemade big fat snare drum kind of thing where you cut out an old head and you put it on there And it's it's show and it's took a little Uh, just to layer it up That's the rich that's the rich and that was being done a long time ago So another thing bottom did to muffle his bass drum I think and john paul jones says it at one point was he put crumpled newspaper in the bottom My grandpa would talk about that. Yeah, that was a common thing like back in the day And so you can see photos. There's photos of bonzo's maple thermo gloss kit before he has this ring type muffling resident head Before that point you can see there's something in the bottom of the bass drum And you can see it from the front and you can see it from behind the footage from the The french tv show footage you can see there's something crumpled up in there And and john paul jones said he put he used crumpled newspaper other people have said he lined the bass drum with tin foil Yeah, that remember that was the big that was a big one back in the 70s. He lied Was it aluminum? Was it sheet aluminum? Yeah, that would be like the opposite wouldn't it wouldn't that make it more reflective and louder It would add it would add a lot of like, you know punch punch and high frequency But it's still strips. I mean you see a lot of felt strips in in photos of like Recreation kits and things like that was Guy he almost always used a felt strip at the bottom of the On the batter on the on the beater head. Yeah, you see at the bottom just about maybe, you know A six of the way up the head or whatever a fifth got it And I would love to know from jason someday But you know, maybe that's one of those mysteries that needs to be there You know, and who knows maybe jason feels like man, i'm not gonna give away all my dad's secrets, you know Yeah, but the secret is obviously in his playing, you know All the gear stuff is fun and it's interesting But banzo could play any kit and sound like himself and crick and banzo. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's in the touch It's in the hands, you know, that's the main ingredient um You know as far as like chasing his sound Yeah, three ply Ludwig big drums. That's that's gonna get you there sooner But uh, I guess, you know moving on from the green sparkle kit He used that kit until the end Of 19th or the end of the the european tour in 1973 So basically used it all up through 70 70 71 he used it longer than he used Pretty much any other kit pretty much any other kit By by all accounts, I guess he really loved it. He loved to record that was like a preferred kit to record with even later You know, like when he was recording physical graffiti He had the vista light kit. So the vista light kit surfaces at the beginning Of may 1973 so in april is the end of the green sparkles live and then may of 73 when they opened in in the us in tampa um You know, you see the brand new amber vista light kit Yeah, right which talk about iconic and let me throw this one to terry question to terry here would So get ready No, but like you think of vista lights you think of bonum really you think of amber vista light you think of them Is this just an anyone could pick this color at that point out of a catalog? I yeah, I think I think what happened was is with london I heard london had a lot of faith in the vista light. They put a lot of um Slayer lent like a lot of the companies really thought vista light were going to be like the way to go Yeah, terry what year did they first come out? What what was the first production year? I know definitely by 72 because I there were You know as I wish I just had stuff to back up But you know, but yeah, so bottom, you know, he probably looked at the colors available and was probably the orange one looks pretty cool You know, it is pretty interesting because if you amber when you look at it It is I mean probably just because the bottom skew, you know, we just love them so much that the amber of course when you see It looks like fire on the stage. Yeah, right. It looks just cool. It's how it literally looks like, you know flames Quite possibly maybe one of the most iconic drum sets, uh in the world where you see it and you go That's john bottom. You know distinctive. It's very distinctive and yeah, and um So there's a lot of speculation about that kit too and how many there were Um, I'm assuming there were at least two bass drums. I don't know if there was you know more toms. Um I don't know if there was ever a 20. There's the rumor that he played a 20 sometimes and he had the 20 at Madison square garden. No way. That's a 16 and an 18. Yeah, we've never, you know, yeah It's either it's either like, um You know, like wishful site wishful thinking an eyesight or Or it's optical illusion because of the angle of the photo of the of the camera Yeah, you know cameras can play tricks, you know, sometimes of course something in the foreground can look twice as big as it Actually is so if it's shot from that side of the floor toms is like, yeah, like Earl's court for example 1975 there are shots of bonham from off to his right And those toms look really big the two floor toms But when you see the aerial shots in the actual video run of the mill 16 it's a 16 and an 18 Yeah, you know, sure. I've never seen so anyone who says no way he used the 20 inch floor time and you can see Your people say a 20. I heard people see a 22. It's like man. No way. No, well, well, you know, the thing is is that But but a 20, you know, a Ludwig 20 inch based room is also two inches deeper So it should be easier to identify in the you know what I mean? Because an eight a 16 inch floor toms and an 18 inch floor toms pretty much by all companies and the owner stuff are 16 inches deep But you get to the 20 and 18 and you never see the big floor toms deeper than the than the 16 Yeah, well, yeah, well, yeah, because we've looked I've been like well, you know, and I've never seen it You know, it's interesting too because they keep the extra base room, especially bonham with the rail They'd have the rack tom on there too because if you broke the rack tom had they'd also pick the whole thing up And set the whole thing down. That's what that's what I was out of his Townsend or somebody told me that By the time they did the uh, the green You know, I mean it's easier and quicker Did he did he break I mean, this is I feel like this is kind of a dumb question because you know Like something a non-drummer would ask but did he break a lot of heads? I mean was he he's such a heavy hitter And it's pretty early in the uh, you know the life of synthetic drum heads 57 or whatever when we're Relatively close to the invention Was he cracked for like breaking heads a lot and get him switched out there There is that quote from him where he talks about he's talking about his drums And he talks about a snare drum and he says well that snare drum there that has been on there for three tours So I mean that could mean remember 1969 they did six tours. They did four of the states They do you know the tour could be three weeks or a tour could be he could have been referring to, you know Yeah, you can see they're pretty worn in a lot of photos that the head looks really worn in Yeah, and I know that he preferred He said he prefers when the head is worn in not brand new heads But of course when he got the black dots The the vista light kit came equipped with black dot heads. So those are much more durable Um pretty hard to break a black dot head I also think that Bonham Bonham's technique changed You know, he used to bring his arms up really high and hit with a with more arm very early on And then he started to refine that and he talks about it in an interview He talks about how he was able to control with his wrist Motion to get more power out of a stroke with a snap of his wrist sort of like the the one inch punch You know theory of bruce lee, you know where you create a lot of momentum with a with a a jab with a amplification I mean He's if they're playing in huge venues They don't he doesn't need to hit as hard and project as much because it's miked up and and things are getting better for That's right. You know the sound guys are better and and all that early on sometimes the mic the drums weren't even miked And if they were miked they might have one mic overhead and one in front of the bass drum Yeah, right. So, you know, you can see in the song remains the same. For example, there's a lot of footage of him playing like this He's not going like this all the time. I mean for certain accents. Yes for certain dramatic, you know moments Um, the vista lights he obviously Like the fact that they were loud and they were articulate, you know that they had a really um kind of a Cutting sound that could cut through the amplification More, I mean, I've never owned of this like kid terry. You you've owned them. You could probably talk more about, you know that The way you tune them and everything Well, it's like I've never put, you know Ambassadors coded ambassadors or coded emperors on them. I'd love to at some point I should just to see but when you put the black dots on and on the bottom You know, you have embass it's clear ambassadors or clear or whatever You know, you the thing is you get from the vista lights is it's like it's two things. It's like a bark But it's also like a bing like bing bing thing and the funny thing is is the way it's sort of When you hear it by itself playing You're kind of like there's a it's just a very distinct sort of thud But the funny thing is is to me I actually prefer the sound of zeppelin in a certain way with the sound of the vista lights live There's just a certain mojo to the vista lights, you know You know like I really like especially when you hear like mobi dick in parts of days confused where bonham does his little patterns It's hard to tell sometimes. What is what what tom tom? He's hitting Um, the bass is a little easier to identify But you know, like when you hear like that the cool mobi dick stuff. He's playing you don't really see any footage You know people for years were like, you know, what the hell is bonham playing there? What is the pattern he's doing? The double strokes with both hands or with just the right hand right because the bass drum and the floor toms actually share A lot of common types sound You know like when especially the 18 like when when he does that thing in in in days in confused where he goes He plays that paradiddle pattern And he goes You know Those last couple notes it's hard to tell if they're If there's a double stroke on the bass drum or if it's on the floor tom And when you watch the film when you look at what he's playing He's playing two strokes on the floor tom and ending with the bass drum But it it sounds almost like a double stroke on the foot. So yeah, right The vista lights have this really like Homogeny, there's a uniformity. Yes uniformity, which is kind which is neat I mean, it's interesting like when you listen to zappa with that Like, you know, it's funny like you listen like when the um 72 stuff came out that what was it like 20 years How the west was one how the west was one? You know, it's cool. I'd say like like a lot of the songs where you really don't hear the toms, you know Yeah, there's that sound. I wasn't really a fan of sort of the how the west hang on hang on Thank you Okay, I'm so glad you have to leave in But I prefer I prefer the original song remains the same drum sound To the sort of the how the west was one drum sound Um, but also to the how the west one was one is the green sparkle wood kit, you know, or at least the You know the stuff from 72 that in fact, that's all it is, right? Is it all 72 on how the west was one? Yes Yes, so that's all the so when you hear like moby dick Or you hear that stuff in days confused or a whole lot of lovely students little like tribal patterns You're definitely like, oh, there's a floor tom. There's a You know, it doesn't have that same sort of Right sort of just total all around like jugga-jugga-jugga-jugga-jugga-jugga. You kind of hear more like bing-ba-boom boom-boom-boom-boom You know, um, yeah But yeah, so the vistas are you know, but they are interesting in fact I'm gonna loan him to george and george is about to do he's about to part undertake on Something that involves the orange. We'll see the amber. We'll just leave it. That's awesome. Yeah I would I probably wouldn't buy a kit, but I I would hit gladly borrow terry's bar. I like I like playing I love the sound of them actually I wasn't a fan of them years ago But then I I played some I played some at drugans drum shop here in in uh, the chicago area There they are. Yeah, and it was it was one of those Rci is that it terry rc. Yeah romano katone international Yeah, it was an rci replica kit and it was beautiful. They sounded great. They felt great to play They're a real responsive feeling Yeah, you know like they have a really nice Yeah, yeah are a lot of his drums, you know Like do they still exist? Have they been sold at auction? I know you said jason still has a lot with the family Uh, people have cut them down and stuff like that. But uh, what about his like are there is there an existing amber vestalite kit anywhere You know fully put together. That's john bonham's drum set Not that we don't want to answer that. Yeah, that's not that I know of well again There was a fella down in in uh, south carolina for north carolina I can't remember who had a kit and he sent me some video of it I talked him for a while It was widely sort of like half the people in the zeppelin drum community said it was original the other half were kind of like no um In any case, I decided I don't even think I put I think I took the video down Or I think I say well, this is I really say this has been disproven to be his kid or whatever Um, but you know, I don't know. There was a kit. There was a kit that pat bottom, uh, john bonham's widow Sold at auction back. I think in 93 or four or five And this was supposedly the kit that this fella had bought in north carolina Like if you look at books that say his name is bill townsen that says his name, you know So so there was an amber there was an amber kit that was auctioned by the family Yes, yeah, that is for sure you can see and it's so funny in the picture. They're not set up right You know the tom-toms the floor toms are like two of the legs are really, you know, they're they're kind of like A non drummer set it up or something totally. Yeah I I really don't know. I mean, I'm assuming jason has a kit You know or the family has a kit um You never know jimmy page might have a kit that You know was was one of the touring kits um what I what so last year One of bonzo's kits was being auctioned the the kit that was auctioned was Basically like a bebop size 1812 14 with a vista light snare and you can see bonham playing This kit you can see jason playing it and the song remains the same I think it was a kit that he had probably special ordered for jason Although he he you know, certainly was playing it You see a video of him Where he's playing along with a tina turner tune and he sits down and jason's got like the the clapboard Yeah And he's got a little he's got a little rubber nose on and he's clowning around going like this and bonzo's sitting there just playing along On this little like it's a very simple beat, you know, and he's just grooving along I actually put bid on that kit I was I was foolishly hopeful that I would win the auction And and I just you know, just be honest I I had I set my cap so it was like at 11 000 and then it went up to like 15 and then it just sat there for a while Pre-auction so the day of the auction. I'm thinking I don't know 15 grand, you know, if it goes for like 20 I might be able to swing it come to mama When it when that when that when that item actually went live, you know and started ticking up I maxed out at about 27 000 Like wow and and you know, I mean, it's kind of ridiculous It's like I can't really afford to spend 20 grand on a kit let alone 25 or 30 What did it end up going for it went for about I think around 90 000 Wow, but then there's a 20 something percent commission Then there's the shipping charge and then there's british via the tax Oh, yeah, so when it's said and done man, you're talking like well over 100 000 dollars that kit sold for man So You know just A little interesting aside, you know, he had other drums. So we're talking about bonzo's kids. He had a black swirl Vistalite kit And quite a few drums. He had concert toms He also had double sided like a 26 Just like the green sparkle sizes or the amber vistalites. Yeah, but in in the I can't remember the name of the pattern You know, it's a pattern or something. Yeah, it's it's like black. It's like black and white One of the kids and had auctioned it off Nick fleet would ended up with with that kid I think it was the big one the one with the 26 But this other kid had like a couple bass drums it had like it looked almost like a 20 or 22 And you can see pictures that I'll send you these photographs of him playing the kid at home And he's got zilgin symbols It's got a zilgin crash here and zilgin hats And he's got he's got the black swirl set up with a couple extra toms and then behind him You can see another bass drum and some toms stacked up. Yeah in that finish So I have a theory that bonzo's mantra Was recorded with multiple toms not just his conventional setup So at the time bonzo's mantra was recorded He would have been playing likely would have been playing the amber vistalite kit Yeah, yeah, but there's something about it. You can hear different tones You don't just hear one tom tone and two floor tom tones You definitely hear at least two high tom tones So What was he playing he could have been playing his new black swirl Vistalite kit he could have been playing the ambers but had a 13 along with the 14 I mean he's a drummer though. He likes to play who doesn't and the fact that they didn't take pictures every five Yeah, right, of course. He yeah, he has home kits. He has Ultimately could have had anything, you know, he could have had, you know, maybe I don't know some band was going Because they were they were in weren't they in the in mantra? Weren't they in the studio didn't he record that at the studio? Yeah, the casino studio. Yeah, I think so or what no mountain studios. It was a studio. Yeah studio that queen had Yeah, that was queen studio. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so the amber vistalites he played those throughout 73 all of 75 And the last time he played those live would have been at Earl's court In may of 75. Yeah Just time for something new he just time for something new I guess and and guess what was new then with Ludwig stainless steel So bonzo in some ways he was kind of cutting edge You know, he was there at the beginning of vistalite and then he was he got a stainless steel kit you know, I think he he Sometimes I think you know, he's thought of as like this kind of conservative or traditional You know drummer had the one up two down setup big band kind of set up in that But he was always kind of experimenting with with things, you know the use of timpani having a gong um, you know the drum orchestra thing for Bonzo's mantra was pretty Oh, yeah, that's your favorite part, right? Oh, that's actually not a drum by the way, that's jimmy page messing around with some synthesize the fact Some people think that steel drums, but it's not steel drums. Oh, yeah, just I gotta tell you drives me berserker I wish we could just get the drums Oh, I would love to hear that I would have somebody else put some other like like a symphony over I'd love to hear outtakes of that Like the different dubbed parts. Oh, yeah, I think my my personal opinion is he was playing double bass drum on that Yeah, at at least for certain parts Um, I think a lot of hardcore bonomites don't agree. They think I don't know he could play anything with his right foot Of course, he could play that but there's a certain aspect to the feel That doesn't sound like one foot Playing that that uh pattern It has more of a swung almost like You did you did a great job in your in your video where you did it with one foot Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, I think it's possible, of course to do, you know It just to me doesn't sound like it right and there's also no another important thing is there's no precedent for it Bonzo never played that particular thing Before you know, I mean, it's not like the bass drum triplets. Yeah, he never played uninterrupted 16th notes in a role like that That's going on under underneath everything, you know, so anyway The jury's out on what drum kit he used for bonzo's mantra. Who knows Sure, but the ambers the ambers. Yeah, he was done with that and then they had some time off and then the next big tour was 77 And that's you know, they had recorded the album presence. Now jason Bonham, I remember seeing a comment he made somewhere because somebody had Made this comment about the silver sparkle. So this this goes to The allegations of bonham Having a silver sparkle kit. There's no proof for that So I know some online sources say That was one of his kits, but There needs to be proof if you're going to make that claim. There's no proof of that kit existing Well, you know, there's and that it was used on presence So terry, I'll let you pick it up from there. Well, here's why I say it's bill Thompson. This this name comes up again Said that on presence. There was a silver sparkle kit. He said that bonham at some point got a silver sparkle kit um And he also referred to at the time this is before a higher definition picture came out of bonham's drums set up at polar studios in 1978 when they're recording Where bill thompson mistook the stainless steel drums in the photograph For these for silver sparkle because he probably had a lower resolution picture back in 1992, you know, and um But yeah, there's I don't know, you know, I I know the I don't know any drums You know, I I've never apart from that I'd said in videos that that's what bill thompson had said bill thompson Also said just real fast just to get this all out that bottom supposedly was going to get a uh a black sparkle Kit for the 1980 tour a 24 13 16 18 again, that's what he said I've said that videos over the years. Um, but what's interesting though is I don't think black sparkle is offered In 1980 though, I know slayerlin had black sparkle in 80, but I don't think ludwig did at the time Yeah, he could probably get what he wanted though, you know, right He could I I just think a lot of that stuff's wild goose chase. I I prefer to like Focus on the stuff we know Exactly because it gets to be such a rabbit hole with like speculation And I know like most of this is just because people who are really into a particular Artist they get into their gear. You know, it's just natural I mean ultimately none of it matters when it comes to the actual musicality of the artist Right And yeah, well, I shouldn't say none of it, but it's it's a very small It's the icing on the cake. It's more. Yeah. Where's the bamboo missile? It's fun. Exactly. That's the point is it's fun But for me, it's not fun to speculate about, you know, there was a silver sparkle kid He did this he did that without having some proof What's more fun for me is making it like when jason Corrected someone something about this. He said my dad played the green sparkle kid in munich when they recorded presence I I know I was there So he was, you know, jason's the same age as me. I think he's born in 66 So they recorded that album in what fall of 75. Yeah, I believe That's all you have to remember. I mean, yeah, so if he was eight or nine Yeah, I go for fourth grader. You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah, I mean, I remember, you know, things from when I was nine So if he said the green sparkle kid was there, I believe it um However later So in 76 They start rehearsing in very late 76 early 77 for their big their biggest tour ever The biggest tour they ever did was the 77 tour and bonzo gets this Iconic equally iconic stainless steel kit, which was kind of a novel thing at the time um 26 by 14 15 by 12 tom 16 16 18 16 Floor tom and they they they're rehearsing at the manticore studios in in london And they have like a big sound stage and there's photos from the rehearsals And you can see, you know, the the new kit set up and um I couldn't help but wonder like what if he got the kit A little earlier and recorded bonzo's mantra with it, but yeah, we'll never know that. Yeah, that's possible That's possible too. Yeah, but that that was that was the last kit that he that he had and used for the remainder of his career So from 77 to july of 80, which you know, wasn't wasn't very long No, and and as we're kind of talking about this, we kind of skipped over it a little bit, but i'm assuming his symbol uh Style and set up and he had the gong that stayed relatively consistent throughout Well, I think that the gong at in the earlier days the gong I think might have been like 30 or 32 But I think by the time, you know, 73 75 77 80 rolled around. I think it was a 38 inch gong, right? Wow Oh, yeah, it was a large one. Um, the symbols the symbols, you know He started using two thousand twos in 73 You can see clearly in the song remains the same. He's playing set 2002 crashes and and I believe the hats are They look like two thousand twos Oh, yeah, definitely definitely, right? Yeah, those hats are yeah, but the ride is not it The ride is not a 2002 and I think a lot of people Make that mistake that they think he had all two thousand twos In 73 and then the song remains the same and in url's cord in 75 He had a giant beat ride still he seemed to prefer he obviously preferred a giant beat 24 Yeah, I mean the belt is a lot bigger Yeah, you don't you don't see the the 2002 24 until The steel kit. Yeah till 77. Yeah, and that was all then it was all 2002's But I think sometimes he had a 602 over on the far right a 20 inch medium ride. He used it as a crash Yeah, so he had two he had two up above the above the floor town and um and two Yeah, actually he got even though see I think that document Marcel Vogelman got that picey document that shows when bonham got his Symbols I think it's incomplete You can see some pictures from 72 Where he has two crashes on his left And the you can see I think the 18 is a giant beat but the but the 16 he's hitting on the underside You can see the word piste Which will that's a that's a 2002 that's on the list though That's you know, believe it or not the first 2002 that that list shows bonham getting Is a 16 inch medium Right, February of 73 Exactly, and that's when he's playing it. But yes, but isn't there a picture from 72 That's sure that shows him some pictures from 72 that show him with that symbol Or is that just only 73 on the european tour? I don't think so. I thought it was early 73 in europe Let me look at that. Yeah, we have to go back and look but you know, that was that that corresponds to those dates in europe Yeah, well, yeah, but here's the thing. It doesn't show him getting any more 2002s till after the american tour Right, right, and he's clearly playing 2002s on the song remains the same. Yeah, so I mean so that list That again that list is not you know He might have called said let me get oh throw this on there too or something or yeah just bottom, you know Yeah, it's uh Yeah, but anyway, it is yes with the symbols. Yeah, well, you know how it is We just need we need to just get jason bonham to open up to somebody about all the gear I mean that that raises the question and you were joking terry saying Oh, I need to I need to talk to him No One of you guys need to talk to him because even talking to you too I'm like I'm glad I could get you guys together for this but like really you guys know so much It's like just letting you know kind of prompting you and letting you guys go at it You need an absolute if If jason would be involved in anything it absolutely needs to be with someone who I love Zeppelin I'm loved in my entire life, but You guys are on a whole nother level of expertise and knowledge I mean, yeah, I reached out to his his his people His like through his website his age, you know agency or whatever and they said maybe in the future Uh You guys definitely need to try and get that set up I know I know that would be your dream because he probably holds a lot of secrets That people want to know am I yeah, yeah, am I right? Oh, oh, yeah I would think definitely I just wonder if how much of that is privacy like he wants to keep some things private You know, sure which is understandable And then I've heard from Someone, you know The older I get the less I can connect what I heard to the actual source. Yeah But somebody said there's just not that much that jason told them Like there's just not that much left. Yeah, you know, some things have been auctioned off some things were Lost in the shuffle maybe who was the other fellow we talked to someone else We talked to said that some stuff was stolen years ago Out of a zeppelin like storage unit And I don't remember but I I'd heard that too. Yeah, I came from I think debora deb bottom Wait, wait, wait, wait Deborah Bonham said is debora is his sister and zoe's daughter Yes, I got you. Okay. Yeah one one of zoe or dubby or debora took lessons from somebody Zoe Yeah, and he asked that's the source. That's the source. Yeah, that's who was that do you remember who I think it's the fellow the dm 190 remember we did that interview with the drum man 190 guys Right. Yeah. Yeah One of the fellas on there had taught her You know, I gave her lessons and she said, you know, a lot of my dad's stuff is just it was stolen or just she Disappeared. Yeah, terrible. So but you know, I mean, but it is cool. You know what I mean? Like we've been trying George and I have the committee It's it's housed in the uh, what's the building that got broken into the watergate building It's the committee. It's the committee. It's the committee to try to get committee. Yeah The the outtakes from the song remains the same where you just like, you know a guy camera guy You know just anything. Yeah, there's any sound like over bottom shoulder and he's like totally just anything give us any footage With bottom treasure trove. Sure. I mean, it's gotta be out there You look at like the get-back stuff with like the Beatles and Peter jackson playing it together. You need some kind. I mean Who knows what could happen Down the road. Can you imagine all this stuff? This comes out when I saw that get-back Uh film. I was thinking wow glin johns was just in the studio a few months earlier With with zeppelin. Yeah, because wasn't that january of 69? Yeah that back. Yeah Yeah, so then october october of 68. You recorded the first album Wow, you know and how cool maybe someday and then you hear a couple times john london Who could be a little acerbic and so like hey glinnis Start the tape machine because it was an actress in england named glinnis johns glinnis johns. Yeah So glenni be like like there's that scene and the guys are recording What's the one The stones Please allow me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, and they're sitting there and Keith richard and mick jagger and bryan jones are sitting there. We're kind of working something out And glin john kind of walks set and he goes i'd like to get some levels And keith richard goes not now I'm just like jeez easy. Yeah, that's it and glin john just kind of goes like Just walk. Oh totally. Yeah, not now Wow, well They're the stars, you know, maybe at some point some photos will surface from some of these sessions So, you know, the fellow bonomaniacs who are really Into this and into the knowing about the gear used on specific albums and stuff I mean live would pretty much know because there's a lot of photographs of them live and there's a lot there's footage But in the studio, it would be really interesting to see what he was playing. Yeah, right It would be funny. There's gonna a picture is going to turn up from uh star grows There's going to be like a freaking uh, uh, a 20 12 14 fricking rogers kit And that will be hanging you never know, you know when that auction was the auction You gotta go to the hell you're talking about So you know the video From jail like The auction the auction of the black diamond pearl kit Yeah, there was a comment in there that said drums drums that were played by john bonham on when the levy breaks Like there was this statement that just like this is the kid he used So at first I was like, what you know, that's total bs Um, but then I was like, well, how do I know yeah photos? What if that was the kit that bonham remembered that kit and was like, hey, I want to use this kit for a couple tunes Yeah, yeah, you never know Robert plant might have been the one who said this is the drums mate that bonham played Right, you know on when the levy breaks and then I don't know whoever that person was That was doing the auction. You can look at it if you google John bonham black diamond pearl And then auction You'll find it and you'll see pictures of plants standing behind the kit like this. Wow, you know I mean, so it's it's legit. It's legit. Yeah Oh man, it's it's it's easy to run away with the speculation But I like how george you said that it's it's you got to stick with it and this is This is factual true stuff. Um It's it's unbelievable. Hopefully more stuff turns up. Um This has been awesome. I guess the last question I would have gear wise. What sticks would he have been using, you know, you don't have to go super detailed as we're Terry Terry has them There you go. Well, I am Right here in my possession. These are these are what I call the bonds only two way just happen to be for sale Oh, there we go But but what these are is these are essentially more or less These are based on the Ludwig 2a of yore that bonham really really supposedly love, you know It has a nice taper and stuff But you know, we talked about I mean, he really there's a fruco stick he liked There was supposedly a premier stick. Maybe he liked there were some sticks that look to be Ludwigs, but they don't look like They don't look like two a's or two bays. They look like something else They look thicker, but the beads just look a little bigger. This is a pair of dino dinelli 2a Ludwig now I have other pairs of 2a Ludwig not dino dinelli signature From from a little earlier than this. I think these are more mid 70s mid late 70s I have two a's from the early 70s and they look more like terry's reproduction stick This bead is different. Do you see this bead? It's a little bit more like an acorn. Yes The 2a bead is a little bit more of a capsule So I think the dino dinelli stick is slightly different than the conventional stock Ludwig 2a I actually prefer it actually I like the beads a little bigger And do you see the taper here and the right the neck just before you get to the bead? It's very thin. Yeah. Yeah, so my my gut feeling is bonzo went through a lot of these on a gig Sure, I think they're thinner than yours terry. Oh really? Yeah, they're very thin I mean these these crack if I made a video with these This pair would probably be cracked by the end of the video. Well, you know the fun I mean They last maybe a couple a few tunes The one thing is just these six I had this fella in wisconsin Leroy from lure Yes, man that they're very very durable And the finish is very anti is very anti slip You know, yeah, I'd always heard the 2a or the 2b I made those because I thought they'd be cool. It's a stick. I haven't seen for a long time. Yeah, totally It's interesting is there's a photo of robert plant at a soundcheck From 75. It was the first day behind the drums behind the drums. Yeah, he's sitting behind the drums and And and I I think right around that time Was when he started getting the promuco Custom stick his own stick. Yeah, so I find it interesting that Up until then he didn't he didn't have his own stick as one of the top rock drummers in the world Yeah, really he was using dino denelli sticks or whatever and Eventually he had this guy. What's the guy's name from promuco? He he created these custom sticks for many rock drummers in england cozy powell and Mitch Mitchell and you know, a lot of guys were using his his custom sticks and bonzos promuco sticks Are they reissued they made a recent issue of the john bonham promuco stick, but it's it's not the same Yeah, it's not sure it's a similar length and width But the bead is different and the taper is different and You know, that's unfortunate to me because I really wish they would have just made the replica stick Just do it exactly Yeah, but they didn't yeah Who knows if promuco is even the same promuco? They might have got bought by some other company and they just The promuco is they do make sticks, but the sticks are a lot They're kind of lower quality generally like they seem like the sticks you go to an entry level snare drum You know, but the promuco john bonham signature that they did come out with a few years ago They are a high quality hickory stick They they are and it's a nice playing stick. I actually kind of I think it's a really nice stick It's it's almost like a a regular sort of uh five a Everybody's sort of five a but with sort of the shaft That goes from under the bead to the stick Which is a little more like the original bottom promuco like that's similar like like in the in the the bottom promuco Like tapers like this almost perfectly straight and then goes to the and then cuts Yeah, but the bead is really different the bead is yeah the bead is like a five a Nowadays but the original promuco was a little different Well, that's interesting but like like you said with everything that he probably just burned through him And if he had sticks sitting around like he probably tried a bunch of stuff and he probably played Tons of different sticks just because There's sticks you just you break them and you well, I think once he yeah there they are I think once he got the promuco see that big a see that like yeah, that's like a big first bead Yeah, that is that's like a big first bead. That's not like so christmas instead of being more tapered Yeah His were kind of like an olive seed, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah But you know, I think his his tech mick hinton Said they had like a what do you call it a gross? Yeah He said there was always a gross of sticks right off to his side, you know, because I'm sure I mean if he was playing these He they must have tips must have been flying off. Do those appear to be hickory or do you think that they're Maple oh, these are hickory. They are okay. Okay Gotcha Yeah Cool. Yeah, so well that's sticks. I mean, I think there's so much and We will maybe down the road I feel like his recording and the mic techniques is an entire other conversation which could go on for a long time But for uh for the sake of now Um as we wrap up here, I think this has been awesome. I think uh, you know If you're listening to this on uh as a podcast There has been photos inserted the whole time. So when when they're referring to something There's gonna be a photo on the screen, which you would have seen if you're watching on youtube But um, be sure to I'll put the link for the youtube video in the description of the audio format So if you are listening go ahead and if you want to hear it again an hour and 40 minutes of us talking about zeppelin Maybe these two talking about zeppelin and uh do that, but As we wrap up. Is there anything you guys want to maybe promote? Your your own channels and all that stuff, uh, whoever wants to go first, you know, tell them about where they can find you This is the george flutus pfoz apparel where With this phallus on the front. It's a little hard to make that out Looks like moby dick That's funny. Moby's what? Yeah, so anyway, but yeah, so george of course has pfoz He's got bonomology channel. I have the banzolium channel I'm doing that new music with my friend thai there who's singing with pfoz. He's doing the uh The zeppelin bits there the the prop robber plant vocals, which is amazing. You got I mean that stuff is I don't know how these guys do it. There should be like a documentary on the making of pfoz stuff You should i'm serious the way you guys play you know, um Pfoz is people's front of zeppelin. It's a silly name for a really good cover band virtual zeppelin Tribute we do on on youtube. So it's a youtube channel people's front of zeppelin And we don't play in the same room together ever although one day we hope to do that um, you know, it's like a virtual band thing and uh I I have a a drum sample pack and loops that um came out recently through yurt rock Which is a really great organization that has featured a lot of top tier drummers Um, you know playing playing their own beats since uh for loops and samples And mine is is under the name bonomology. So it's basically bono mask, you know style uh drum beats for For looping and sampling So you can check that out at yurt rock and i'm just you know yurt why you are t Yep rock. Love a good yurt Good yurt good yurt. Yes, and then there's teepee rock Yeah, yeah, it's not a bad little teepee rock yurt rock stuff is awesome. Uh, yes, I will put descriptions links to all the description obviously bonzolium terry your stuff is awesome as well um, both of you guys have your your videos and your channels are just like Uh, it never any anyone that I put on either of you guys it is always just fascinating and I'm like I love bonom You can go from being, you know a little bit interested to bonom to someone who's kind of like a history nerd who really likes bonom, but you guys are obviously next level to the master Bonzo bonzo like freaks as we'll say in a good way. I don't know how this happened Yeah, the masters and we'll but you it's interesting for everyone I think uh There you go. All right. He's got the fez out. Yeah, the fez is on that means it's time to quit Yeah, yeah, that's the original gram pooba one Yeah, but anyway, what you guys do is just incredible. Um So check the description um for everyone who's listening or watching to see I mean most people know you guys If you're listening this to this and you're an hour and 50 minutes into it. You've probably heard George and terry you're doing Has it been that long? Wow. It's just yeah, it did and it'll be a little shorter because we'll clean stuff up But um, that's good before we end though. I do want to give a shout out to um, I hope to say his name Right stifano ashbridge who joined up with the drum history podcast patreon at a certain level Which is 15 bucks a month where he gets a shout out So, uh, thank you to stifano and actually his brand is drum lessons in la.com. So Check out drum lessons in la.com and because he's at that tier he gets now his name at the end of all the youtube videos Which I always say to people that's a very cheap way to advertise your brand is to do patreon at that level You get your name. There's six or seven on there and Lots of different people have been doing it with drum brands and shops and podcasts and stuff So thank you stifano for doing that. Uh, and it really helps support the show And on that note gentlemen, thank you for taking the time and uh joining me back on and giving me all your Your bottom again, I feel like you guys I kind of let you talk most of the time because it's as a bottom fan, but uh, you know, it's hard to add information That you guys don't know or to bring something up because you guys know so much. It's unbelievable Yeah, it always helps and feels good though to get questions, you know, sure to stimulate the conversation So otherwise you guys are just talking at each other about bottom Yeah It's really enjoyable to do this and yes, you know No, the pleasure is all mine. Yep. Cool. Well, um, this is awesome So thank you guys for being here and uh sharing photos and everything that's been throughout the video with me And uh, uh, hopefully we'll all be able to hang out at a future like chicago drum show or something like that You're in cincy, right? Cincinnati in cincy. Yeah, it's okay. That'd be great. I'll hit you up if I'm coming to cincy Yeah, for sure. Please do. Yeah, awesome. Thank you fellas. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks again, Bart. All right