 Hey everyone, Eric Coffey here, bringing you another episode of Making a Giant. Today's episode, Making a Giant, we interview Nicole Sharpe. Nicole actually works at three of the largest defense contractors out there, Booze Allen Hamilton, Accenture and Kelly Services. But we're not talking about that today. In today's upcoming episode, she sits down with our very own Marie Martinez where they discuss how did she win her very first contract. So for all of you who are new to Making a Giant, it's the podcast where we interview everyday students like yourselves who actually just started their businesses and they're just starting embarking on their federal journey. And so today we are talking with Nicole Sharpe from Griffin Consulting Partners. She started her business back five years ago, but it wasn't really until just two years. That's right, she quit her job and dug deep into the organization. She spent six months away from friends and everybody just learning about the business. And then when she finally won her first contract, she still questioned whether or not she should be here. Does that sound like a lot of people out there? I bet it does. So again, stay tuned for this upcoming episode of Making a Giant with Marie Martinez and Nicole Sharpe. Today in Making a Giant, I wanna welcome a very special student of ours and she took me by surprise. So as you guys hear this story today for the first time, it'll be my first time hearing it. So like you guys know, I love the storytelling and I love the new stories and the new excitement that there is in learning about people's journeys just because all of our journeys are so different. But at the end, our goals are the same. So today I wanna welcome Nicole Sharpe. She's actually CEO of Griffin Consulting Partners. And Nicole, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. So Nicole, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Like where did you grow up? Where are you located and your business? Yeah, so I'm a military brat. So I think it's safe to say when you're a military brat, you're from all over. But I was born and partially raised, I would say born and partially raised in the Hampton Roads area, which is like Norfolk, which is a military area, sorry. Virginia. Norfolk, Virginia, yes. So in my mind, I'm always like Norfolk is, that's the only place it's Norfolk, Virginia. And I also spent a lot of time in Florida, throughout all of Florida. And so my partial home is different places in Florida. We were based there in Pensacola, Jacksonville and Fort Lauderdale. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So it's plain on my roots there. And my mother decided that we were gonna go back to the Hampton Roads area and lived in Chestnut, Virginia. And so that's kind of the area that I claim. However, I now live in the Washington, DC area and lived a couple of other places prior to that. So DC has been my home for a few years. Oh, awesome. Yeah, last time I was in DC was at the start of COVID last year. Oh yeah? Yeah, I remember that, because I remember flying back at the airport and people were like starting to hear it. And we had a conference and a lot of people started counseling like the agencies. So that's the last thing I think of DC was that conference. Yeah, yeah. DC, I mean, we're still kind of like on lockdown. And I will say, we still have like our family home down in the Florida area. So what's funny is that's kind of our go-to, but lockdown is still real here. So masks are fully implemented. And I think some of the restaurants have been gone to one, but I think it's still like 30% capacity. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm from Florida. We closed down for maybe a half a second. I know. I went down there during the holiday, actually in November, I was down there and I'm like, is there COVID-19 existing down here? We went to the beach and it's like a normal Sunday at the beach. So yeah. So we are a little bit different than other states. Yeah. I mean, I love the state. Like I said, growing up there, it's like I'm home away from home, but coming to DC, I'm like, oh, rules. It is DC, they should have rules. Yes, yes, it's important. All right. So tell us a little bit about your business. So yes, I've worked with, I'm actually the CEO of Griffin Consulting Partners, LFD. And I have to be honest, although I've had the business for about five years, I still say we and I say I work for because I'm so used to being in that environment. And also I'm a little humble. So when people ask, what do I do? I just say, oh, you know, I just work. I'm very, you know, kind of used to saying that and not just talking about it. So with being transparent, I always say that, but GCP has been in existence for the last five years and we provide solutions in the Fed health space. And we also work with companies that are looking to grow and get into the Fed health space. So we work with opportunities with the VA, military health services all throughout DoD and all of the military treatment facilities and also state and local federal hospitals. So like COVID hospitals that are coming, you know, that are popping up and things of that nature we work with them and also medical supplies. Oh wow, that's very interesting. How did you end up having your business? How did you have this idea of, this is what I wanna do next? So I actually, I'll take a step back a few years ago before moving to DC. I came to DC one because my mother said, you have VA money and you need to go to college. So it was to come back here and I was working in the film and entertainment industry and I loved it living in New York, which was a great opportunity. And ironically, my first opportunity, I worked for music cares, which is the healthcare side. And my minor was in healthcare as well. So I knew that I was gonna be a producer. I was gonna work there. Just to really be honest with you guys, every Thursday I would watch different world and also the Cosby show. And I was so excited about the people that were on the show, but also behind the scenes because I thought that was so cool and a production. And so I had a cousin that was in the entertainment business and I thought that's what I was gonna do. However, growing up, I knew that I love business. And when I worked in film and television I worked as a producer assistant, but I didn't always work on the scene or like on shows. I actually worked in the contracting area. And so I know who would have thunk it. And so even when I wound up getting another opportunity to actually work as a staffing consultant as to handle contracts, I kept saying, what in the world? So when I moved to the Washington DC area I worked for a project that was on the Hill and it was related to film and television still dealing with contracts. And so one said, you should get into consulting. And I said, what does that look like? I mean, my background, my major was in, it was broadcast journalism, but I've always worked in staffing or recruiting and also working in other areas on the healthcare side. I didn't mention as a child, I was actually like a candy striper. So that's what the star, do you know what that is? I remember from like the 90s shows, like the candy striper. Candy striper, so for people who don't know what that is cause all the time people are like, what's the candy striper? It's the kids that would volunteer in the summertime at the hospital and my aunts and uncles, they were always in healthcare and my aunt was a registrar. Okay, that's how you, the healthcare. How healthcare was always stemmed. And then also the bad side, which I used to say, oh my God, I was a military brat and we would go to the hospital and I literally would go to Port Smith Naval all the time. And I would tell my mom, I'm tired of living here at this hospital. I'll never come back here when I get older. And now that's not the case cause I support the, not that hospital, but I support the hospitals. And so I was like, man, you know just learning about healthcare and appreciating it and understanding. So a needless to say, when I moved to the Washington DC area I worked for a large government consulting firm and started out there and working on various agencies. And I just really loved it. And I had a mentor who was a senior VP. I would only talk to him about like, how does this work? Like, can you first tell me what a consultant is? I'm sorry, I was in my 20s still. I was still young. And I said, I'm going to graduate school. I'm not quite sure what I want to do. I, you know, but I know what HR that's what I've been doing. Even when I volunteered at hospitals, you know, working in various offices. And I really liked that. My family wants me to be a nurse but I'm not sure if I want to do that. And I was honest with myself. I did a lot of self-searching on what I wanted to do at that time. And so I worked on the contract and then that contract, it did not end. I actually went to an event and met someone and wound up working and interviewing for another large consulting firm, which was, is it okay to say the name of the consulting firms? Yeah, if you're okay with it, yes. I'm always good with it. So I worked at Accenture back in the day. And at that time, I, you know, was transitioning from the staffing firm I was working with, which was at Kelly Services. So started at Kelly Services when I first moved here to D.C. And that's how I got into understanding, just kind of like, oh, this is what, you know, a role is or position and what that looks like. And that was really, really a great opportunity. And then when I worked at Accenture, I still was like, okay, I'm still doing recruitment, HR, but for the agency, but I didn't understand how it works, you know, how government contracting work. I just knew I had a job and I liked my job. Yeah, and so just being myself networking, I met with other people. And then I interviewed at Booz Allen and I went there. And that's really where I got this bug. And I felt, I don't know if other people that worked at Booz Allen, the Booz Allen before they went public, the idea was you kind of sell yourself. And I always felt like Booz Allen was, it put you in that position to start a business if you ever wanted to consider. Because in my mind, I applied for the job, I worked on the project, but what was different was, I would have to go out and meet other people and sell myself about working on projects and learning that. And then you also, at that time, you work on other, you learn about extra time and working on contracts and building those and maybe working on red teams, tiger teams and those type of things. And I still was like, I'm just on a team. I'm just happy to be here type of attitude, but I really loved my customers. And when I say I really love my customers, I studied my customers in the sense of like, how does this work? Why is the government doing these things? Tell me what that means. Like, I know this might be a dumb question, but what does a bed mean to you? Like, I know what a bed is, but can you explain, you know, in DOD, how do you guys identify, you know, a hospital bed? You know, that those type of questions. And I think that also had them kind of go back and say, hmm, okay, this is interesting. And I say that because I had one project that I worked on. I was supposed to be there for six weeks and I stayed for about five years. And... And that's working with Bruce Hamilton? And that was working at Booz Allen and Hamilton, yes. And through that time, I, you know, applied and worked, I left there and worked for a Native American owned company. Oh, wow. And I stayed at each company for a few years. I know I look young, thank you. Yes, I was like... But no, I'm proud to say I just turned 40, so I'm like, I'm like, wow, I can't believe I've been in the industry for a very long time. And I'm one of those people, if I don't know, I honestly don't know and I'll go research and I'll ask. And that's a good thing to do. Like, some people are scared, some people are timid, some people just assume, but you just ask. Like you said, what does it mean to you? What is a bed? Like, what does that mean? Like, and those are questions that are very important because you were put in this position and you just went from one to the other, but at the same time, you're grasping every single person's point of view, every single person's strength, every single contract and things like that. So... Yeah, I was just, I'm a sponge naturally, but I really made the decision to become a sponge. When I got here to DC, I knew people, but I didn't have relationships. I, you know, I broke, come from a home that had a lot of like relationships. And I'll say, if I did, I didn't know it. You know, we didn't talk about those things. My mom said, when you graduate from school, get a good government job. And I used to tell her, no, I won't do that. I'm gonna go work in film and television and I'm gonna have a grand life. And if I don't, I don't know, but I won't be working for the government. And ironically, I worked for the government. I guess the moral of the story, especially since it's close to Mother's Day, listen to your mom. Yes, oh, they know it. It's like, I think once they become, you become a mom or they became a mom, like they have this sixth sense about your child. Yes. Because when she tells me, don't do something or something like that, I'm like, okay, I've done things around her so many, like the first day I got my car, she's like, don't go anywhere. And I was like, okay, I was in high school. I went and she dumped in my car. My gosh. Oh. So it's like, I take whatever she says and I'm like, no, no, no, no. Like she has that feeling, I'm good. Yes, I definitely learned that. I mean, I have so many stories. I talked about like manifestation and my personal life and just praying and things. And I'm not really religious, but I'll just say this one story. My godmother, who I call my aunt, when I moved from New York, before I moved from New York to the DC area, I went to church with her and she actually said, God gave me a message and said, you're gonna move to DC. And I literally said, God didn't text me. I'm very angry. So I say all that to say, you know, they know and so I used to talk to them a lot and try to say, okay, is this the right way to go and making sure that I'm doing the right thing or I'm aligned with where I'm supposed to be? And you asked the question about starting my business. Other people saw it in me and I had friends and I would say people that I call family. They're not necessarily family members. They're very close to me as family. They saw me working hard and said, hey, have you ever thought about starting your own business? And I said, no. I mean, yes, but not in this arena. And going back to that, I went to church and again, not to be super religious. I literally, because I went to church to ask because I asked God for a sign. I'm honestly, I was like, I need a sign. Like, you know, I wound up going, you know, on a trip and saying, I think it's time for me to change. I feel like something's saying I need to go into a different direction. And I'm at every turn trying not to do it. And I look at signs when people who I know don't know each other and they say the same thing, obviously, right? Okay. And so that's kind of what happened for me where, you know, not a person that worked in the government, they literally, a friend of mine said, have you ever thought about starting your own business? And I said, I don't know what my business would be. And then the preacher said, you should think about starting your own business if you have a sign. That was the topic. And I'm like, what's going on here? Like, how did we get it? You know, and I just start researching. I actually Google found Govgon Giants and I said, I said to myself, you know, if I do these things as it relates to things that I personally wanted, you know, small things like I pay them off my car, you know, I pay off this bill, then I know that's a sign. Well, lo and behold, that was during the time and that was the sign. So it was like, okay, these are three things. Okay, that's my go. Probably not the smartest thing to do, but everything was aligned. And I also felt comfortable and I felt at peace that I was in the right direction of starting my own business. And I said, you know what? I don't know what I don't know, but I'm gonna find the answers and I'm gonna believe and step on on faith. And so I actually quit my job the day my niece was born. And that's kind of how this story started. And I did not, I have not looked back, you know, I'd still have great relationships with all of the companies that I've worked for and I'm gracious that, you know, I've had those opportunities, but things are just aligning themselves for it to be right in their days. I'm like, oh, I'm still here. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy and that's awesome at the same time. Yeah, it's been a crazy ride because my story has been so unique. And when I say unique because I've kind of said, you know what, I'm not coming in with relationships or things of that nature, I'm just going to look at what I can read. As you can tell, I read a lot of books and these are books I've accumulated in red as I started the journey of my business. And I, you know, although I didn't spend as much time with my friends, I spent a lot of time learning my craft and learning that I wanted to make this a decision to really have a business. So, you know, becoming, you know, learning Lean Six Sigma and understanding what that means and literally taking notes and saying, okay, if this means that, that means this, how do I go back and perfect what I thought I knew and fix what I can't and going through the process. So. That's awesome. When you, okay, when you started your business, did you know you only wanted to do government contracts? At that point? So I knew I really wanted to do government contracting because I felt at that time, that's all I knew coming from the consulting world. You know, I knew there was really great at understanding and reading contracts, whether they were government contracts or just general contracts as of my experience in the past. I actually thought at one point, I wanted to go to law school. And so I took a summer program for law school and got scared out of my wits and said, I don't know if I'm mentally strong for law school, but I know I have an act and I have friends who could like, and when I say friends, they're either practice law or they actually could tell me and answer questions that I couldn't have answers to. And so I did well in the program, but I made a conscious decision, I'm not gonna go to law school, but I do want to figure this part out. It may be at another time, I'll go to law school later. So I made that conscious decision that I was going to do this because I kept saying, I'm betting on everybody else. Why not bet on myself? That's what I kept telling myself. Nothing beats a failure, but a try. I've done all of these other things to please other people and somebody or something is saying, I should do this. And it's screaming at me, all I can do is try. And if it doesn't work out, I can always find a job. Yeah. And you've taken all the things that you learned and applied it to where you want to be now. Because if you, like you said, you did all these things, but you also made a lot of people successful in your reading of the contracts and whatever tasks you had. So now you have to do the same things, but it's going to be for yourself. What do you think are the biggest things that you took away from being a consultant for these bigger companies? So I loved the bigger companies because I've learned systems. Each company that I worked for, I felt like I was like in training, if that made sense. Even though I worked there, I felt like an intern. And I had to say, let me think how the organization thinks. And let me understand what the mission is and what they want from the customer. And so each company had different things. In my mind, Accenture was very systems oriented and everything is allocated. And I love that because it allowed me to understand why some contracts are the way they are. And so when it came time to understand the different types of contracts, I was like, I know this. I remember this. I can put this together. And then other times, when it came to relationship building, I think I learned that from just me being myself. I will say, you take all these classes on building relationships. And I said, I've tried all of those things. I can only be myself. I can only be myself. And I hope people are accepting of me for really just being me. Because I came in with the mindset of I have to wear a blue suit, white suit, straight hair. Because that was the... What society actually looked at. Like we saw certain people on TV and just like you said, the straight hair, the suits, we just knew that there were some business person out there successful. Absolutely. And in my mind, it was, you know, you work out twice a day. You know, if you can't definitely in the morning, when you wake up, you have a regimen. And again, even though I rebuild sometimes against the military mindset, it's ingrained in me because my parents are in the military. So even though when I say rebuild, I mean, like I need to get up at 6.30, so I get up at 6.00. Let me be clear on the rebuild. I didn't make my bed today. I didn't make my bed today. And then, you know, I get this reminder. I don't know if you know about the... Maybe, I think it's one of the military officers has a book about making your bed. And that's a big thing in my, you know, my family like rules, you know? So I was like, I don't know. And I, you know, so looking at those things and saying, all I can do is be myself, but apply those principles with what I'm learning and figure out what's the best way to do that. So also doing those things. And then where I felt like there was a gap, literally taking classes or finding someone to help me get to the next level. And, you know, definitely, GubCon Giants has been amazing with that. So when there are questions, I can go to Eric's, you know, YouTube is saying, hmm, let me ask this. I can also go back and look at other references, go to the FAR, live by the FAR and the CFR. You're, you like reading contracts. You understand them. Honestly, the first year, that's all I did. When, while I was, you know, taking the training, that's all I did. And I encourage people. It helps because I found, you know, there were times that I was able to say, with all due respect, I don't think that's appropriate. You know, not to be rude, but I'd say, let's not do that. And sometimes you just don't know and we all help each other. And I think that has been helpful for me because I've learned how to say no to the customer without saying no to. And that's really good. That's been rude. When you started your business, what was your first thoughts of like, I just quit my job and I'm starting my own business now? So I'll tell you, it felt like I was going through the motions. I think it was really a weird moment. Again, my niece was being born. I felt like everything was moving. And I wasn't, you know how you're like, you're not sure. And I was teetering on it. I had conversations about it. People knew. And so through that process, the day I, you know, like I said, about when the day I quit, like a few hours later, my niece was born. So I said, okay, I guess it's my new beginning. I'm a new auntie, that type of attitude. But I do remember the first day I said, oh my God, I don't go to work today. I work for myself. And I literally said, okay, after a five minute panic, what should I do is the first thing I did. And then the first step after that was, I went through, you know, hey, let me meditate. Let me look and see what I need to do because I can do this. I can believe in myself. I've betted on everyone else. I've helped everyone else. I can do this. I started writing now a list of all of the things that I need to do. So literally starting from the ground up as if it was a true startup of all the action items that I needed to do. Also my three, five and 10 year plan. I did all of those the first week and strategies on what I needed to do to be successful. And for the first six months, I didn't see anyone for a while. I read day in and day out. And I said, I'm going to learn how to do this and I'm going to invest in myself to get this right. It's a sink or swim. And again, I just felt, I was trying to find the right word because I don't know, you know how you're at peace and you're saying I'm right where I need to be? But I'm still scared, but I'm not afraid like I would have before I quit. So I had this fear when I quit, like, oh my God, what is going to happen? The world's going to come to an end. And then when it happened, it was like, I'm afraid, but I'm okay today. And I recently had that and it's funny. It's actually when I told Eric that I was going to leave GovCon Giant. You were all devastated. I sat in my car and I took a breath and I told him and right after I hung up, I was like, I was crying, but I'm like, I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. I've done this before. I'm going to be okay. Like I had that. So the day I quit GovCon Giant, I just cried. I told myself I was going to be okay. It's like it felt liberating. It was scary, liberating. It's just like, I haven't felt that a long time and that day I felt the same thing. Like I'm going to do this and I'm proud that I did it and it's just so many emotions, but it's like, I'm good. I'm good. Yes. And I'm appreciative that you said that because when I say it still to this day, I feel like, oh my God, I'm not the only one. I didn't know other people feel this way all the time, but it's like a weird feeling because when you say it, it feels surreal. So every time I say it, I'm like, not, it's like, I'm trying to express the words, but it's almost like you're closing a chapter in your life and starting a new chapter and you feel it as it happens. Yes. I'm trying to describe it for other people that they haven't felt it. And I've only felt it maybe two or three times. And it was surreal. And so that time I felt like I was closing a chapter that I'm probably, God willing, we'll never go back to. And I was going into a new chapter that I wanted to do. I wanted to experience. And I can tell you a funny story about that. I actually did, you do the vision boards with your friend every year. I put it on my vision board two years before I started. Maybe, yeah, almost two years before I started and didn't realize I put it on my vision board. Not here to tell people they got to do vision boards because they're not always exist. Like you could do the vision board, this doesn't mean everything will come to fruition. But I just remember people speaking life to me and giving me the confidence because I was always everyone else's cheerleader and I literally did not have confidence in myself. And so that's the only way I can describe it because I know I did things to myself. And what I mean by things to myself was, I knew that in the beginning, there were some days I was questioning myself and I literally said, I'm gonna give myself an hour because I don't think I'm gonna make it. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. And then I'd have to go back and say, no, do the work, Nicole. Like, you can do this. If you were a business owner every day when you went to work for someone else, what did you do to grow their business? So start growing your business. And even if you don't have work, start working on writing out what you will do when you do have the resources or you are available. So it's already planned out. Write out your systems, your back office things that you do. Create your internal database. Even if you don't have work, as you're looking for work, create a schedule of exactly what days you're going to reach out to your customers. You're gonna reach out to your potential customers. Study your potential customers. That's the biggest thing. Studying your customers, studying the organization, getting to know about the people, actually as people and as a customer, it helps. It helped me. That was the only way I was able to get to that. And my first year was not an easy road. Like I said, I didn't have a loan. I had to go get a business, not a business loan, but a professional, a personal business loan. I'm not a professional because it wasn't a family member that I got the loan from. It was someone that believed in me. And she was willing to give me a business loan. And I know her professionally. And I cried. I cried because I had never in a million years thought that people believed in me to do that. And so my whole idea was to pay it forward, just to help others. And I shared, you know? No, that's not normal, but why not? It wasn't gonna hurt me, you know? That's awesome. That's really good. Now I lost where I was going with it. I'm sorry. No, no, you're fine. No, this is good. I love that. Because I think the reason we started doing this podcast, other than the Guff Con Giants, is because we want people to see our stories. We want people to see that. It's not like we jumped into this program and poof, we got a contract. We want people to know the reality of it. Like, look, the first six months, people hardly saw you. The first year for you, it was just you read it, you read into it, you studied it, you researched, you got everything prepared, like your organizational charge, your back office, what am I gonna do? Like your schedule and things like that. And that's gonna set the system into motion of once you start having the clients, they're just gonna go into each location, into each place, and everything's just gonna go. So people need to hear, like, a lot of us do stay up studying. A lot of us do stay up after hours, for four hours to find here and there, writing proposals, understanding things. And that's what people need to hear because you have to hear the reality of the journey. It's not a struggle, it's a journey. And when you're going through it, you're like, you say you question yourself so much. Like, what am I doing? Like, is this really? But then hindsight, after you get a contract, or after you create your business or do something, you're like, huh, it wasn't that bad. Well, I'll tell you, I actually was kind of the opposite. I even questioned myself even more when I got my first contract. And I, because I had, I think I was a little different. I was like, am I supposed to be here? I started saying, yes, I did the work, no one gave it to me, but do I deserve to be in here with all of these giants? And I have friends that have PhDs and doctoral degrees, and I'm saying, how did I get here? I'm just a lowly old country girl. Like, where I grew up, we actually had ditches in a sidewalk that just had lights, you know? And so, although I love the big city life and my friends, if they ever saw this, they wouldn't even know I was from there. I just kept saying, wow, I'm thankful that I'm here, but I know I deserve it, but I had to talk myself into it. And so, to the point where I literally had to do personal development work, and like someone said, so someone called it what it is, I went to a program and they said, you know, when you have moments and you get discouraged, start writing a list about things that you have accomplished and act as if it's someone you didn't know, and then read them, and you'll start to build your confidence. I had to go back to that. Wow. And the reason why I say I felt different was because all, because the work, once you get the contract, please note, the work does not stop. It actually just starts. Yes. And that's why I felt like, holy crap, this is not, this is a different ball game. And I was very shy about telling, you know, some of my former colleagues that I started my business, some knew because I personally told them or they saw on LinkedIn or something like that. And I was like, yes, if they asked, but I did not go out and say, good morning, everyone. I started my business. We're open. You know, it was not that type of environment. And as you can see, I'm more of a colorful type of person. When I took the Myers-Briggs test, I was like out of Louisiana, I was like 3%. And I was like, how did I get here? So I always internalized that saying, I know I'm the purple cow if you've read that book. I become the purple cow and I had to become okay with becoming that purple cow. And it's a really good book because I said, what's unique about me? Me, I'm quirky. I am professional, but I also, I am who I am. You know, I'm not as polished as the next person that maybe I went to Wharton. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I trust me. I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah. So those were the things that for me, I said, you know, I'm smart at what I'm good at and when I'm not good at it, I try. And I do a really good job at being the best person I can be. But once the contract started, it was go time. The earlier time, it was play time. You know, it was manifesting or writing out what the business would look like because I didn't have days to focus on working on the business. I had to work on getting the contract, keeping the contract and sustaining the customer relationship and doing the work and finding new contracts. And so, you know, going back to saying, I didn't see my friends, I'm sure I probably lost friends during the time that it was with love, I just couldn't do brunch. You know, I wish I had cause COVID's here now, but you know, you pick up where you left off but I really made that sound decision that it was go hard or go home. And once I gave it my all and I said, even if it doesn't work out, if can I look at myself in the mirror and say, did I give it everything I got? And I was like, I'm gonna try it. So. So when did you feel comfortable in learning and everything else that, okay, now I'm gonna put this into practice and I'm going to try. It was phases. And I would say I build up real confidence once I started working on the contract. And then after I got my second and third and I helped win. But how did you get the confidence to get the first one? What made you look at this contract and be like, you know what, I'm gonna go for it? So what made me build a confidence was saying, you know what, why not try? That was my first and the, so how I am as a person, I was, I don't know if people are like this. I will start something without thinking about it. It looks good. I waved, like in nanosecond I waved the options and say, can I do this? Am I lying? Can I find the right team? Am I able to do this? Do I feel confident enough to communicate effectively and write to the contract? And all of those were yes. I did the bid, no bid list that we had. It's a old school Excel spreadsheet that I had. And I was like, yes, yes, yes. After my fifth, yes. I was like, it's go time for me. And then it wasn't until I midway and I felt like I felt right in the contract. I was like, wait a minute. Wait, wait, let's think about it. Wait, wait, wait, this is real. So I'm that person and then I'm like, yes, go, go, go. And then in the middle, I'm like, oh, wait, wait, wait. I meant it, I didn't even. So that's- Where did you find the contract? So through various agencies and also I would say I went to various agencies and I would just follow the model that Eric said. Pick it up the phone, talking to people, following up with other contract contacts that I've had in other agencies and just saying, hey, I'm letting you know, I'm interested. If there are opportunities out there, please let me know. And I found a list of future opportunities and the contract that I won, it was on the list. It was, I mean, it was like textbook. Yeah, that sounds like it's exactly what we teach. Like go find the agency that buys your products or services, get the forecast list, call someone and tell them you're interested in this particular project and- Yeah. And I took it a step further. Before winning the contract, I would research everything about the agency and that department if it was open to the public. So when it came down to looking to see what is the organization going? What does that look like? I wanted to have a clear picture. So if I was ever able to sit down with a customer, you know, cause you never know, they may say, hey, can you meet next following day? I wanted to be educated enough to say, I understood the organization's pain points and I also understood what the contract looks like if it was to come out. And so I asked a lot of questions and I just followed everything that Eric said, you know, and I went back, let me also say, I went back and I still go back to all of the YouTube, you know, things and I'm all, I mean, I talk in the class, but I'm always like listening or referencing and taking notes and going to find the answer. And so I have notebooks all around and that's kind of what I did to go after the contract. I could actually say, you know, the organization wrote out in, you know, on their site, they're going in this direction. And then if there was a memorandum, I literally would read the memorandum. People are like, you read that? Yes, I read it. And I followed up and Congress is doing this or this is going to happen. And so by that time, I just kind of OCD on the situation where, and what I mean by that is I wanted to know everything I could. So if a question came up about the opportunity, I was able to reset myself and position myself if a customer asked me questions or if I wanted to ask questions. So I just said go in and say, hi, my name is Nicole and I'm with DCP and we're a woman owned business because Eric always says, you know, if you're a woman owned business, are you able to understand the work? And so I took that to just a pride. I really took that seriously when he said that. And I said, well, you know what? They may outsmart me, but at least I'm gonna study. They can't say I don't know the nature of the work or I'm not able to identify that. So anytime I look for any opportunities, I start looking at the big picture of where the organization is trying to go and the mission and then also the project. So I have the same process. So let's go through the process. You saw it from the list. You called the small business specialist or the contracting office, whoever the POC was for that one. And how did they go into giving you the contract or giving you the scope of work? So I'll say they didn't give me anything. Let me say that. They didn't give me anything. I didn't work for it, but I did make a few calls and I spoke with the POC. When I reached out to the POC, I introduced myself. I had already kind of had like a mini script and I didn't want to like be all salesy because I was told I sound like a salesperson sometimes. So I was saying hello and kind of the situation, they just picked up, she picked up the phone. And I think it was by accident. Thank you. And it had been about 15 times I called. Again, going back to my schedule, I had a general schedule. And with my general schedule, I would say these are the days and the hours I would do it. And I have like, with my schedule, it's kind of like go time and be time productivity is like a big thing for me on systems. That's kind of how I live my life. And so I was like, this is my window, I'm gonna do it. And so I was actually multitasking and she answered the phone. And I kind of had my schedule, but I didn't have it right. And so I kind of did what I normally do. Hi, I'm Nicole. And I said, I'm really interested in an opportunity to have other questions. If I have other questions come out, am I able to send them at my questions? Please let me know your process. I know all offices are different. I'd love to send my capability statement. And so I just did the whole thing. And I think I impressed her, but I was very honest. And probably too honest. And I said, full disclosure, I'm a new business but I'm really looking to find out what the organization needs. And if this opportunity is not the right opportunity for me, I'd like to figure out and build a relationship to align myself to understand what you guys need. And so I think that was a different approach. Yeah. That's not normal. People will say, if it's not, this one's not for me. I'd like to figure out what may be for me and what the organization's looking for if they're moving in a different direction based on the research I have. And I think that was either she thought I was crazy or she liked it, one or the other. And so I was able to put my questions and I was able to put a team together. And so it was with ANC and with another partner. And so through that, I said, you know what? I honestly don't know what I don't know but I know this is big and I wanna get it right. And so we put our heads together and we put our team together. And literally I had notes. I think I scared the rest of the team off. This is all I researched. So even when it came down to different topics and things of that nature, I'm like, I know this is coming up and this may be interesting. I've found out about this and I'm like, take out what you will but I think this is a great opportunity that we all are aligned to. And so we won. How long after you started did you win your first contract? It had been a year, almost a year and a half. Okay, and how long from the time that she picked up the phone and you guys turned in the proposal to when you won it? About eight to nine months. Oh, okay. Yes. And that's the reality of it though. Like I'm still surprised but that's the reality of it. It's a process. Everyone has, like you said, you guys had to have the time to put it all together. They have to have the time for certain things. So and where was it? Is it in the state that you live in? Yes. So it wasn't in this area and I will say that the opportunity was very peculiar because what was unique about it, the organization was changing. So when I say that, the questions that were asked, there were a list of questions that people were asking and how the situation happened primarily was because I stayed engaged. Anytime there was like a all hands, I was there. Anytime there was something there, I acted as if I already had the contract. I pretty much did. And when I say I acted as if, I studied everything that came out. Even to Google searches, I put a notification if it was related to the topic. So I could become well versed in it and know what the competition was doing outside of the organization as well. So for me, it was, I wanted to understand what does that look like now and what was the to be state and where was the pain point for the agency? So that was my focus and may not have been the right direction for all contracts, but I really wanted to understand what that meant for the organization because I knew the organization was evolving. Oh wow. And after you won the contract and I say it, you said it earlier, it's like this is where the work begins. Oh yes. So once you guys won the contract, what was that process for you like? So what I felt like I knew well was the hiring process, right? And so I kind of came in like, oh, I know hiring, I know what that looks like. I've been through this process before. Take all the stuff you learn on paper, throw it out the window. In theory it sounds great, but in execution it's different, right? And so going back to what I was saying, I had my HR processes written out, what that looked like, how the team would work together and my thoughts is what I would control and what I could be responsible for. Well, in execution we had to hire the people. Or we had to turn the people over from the previous contract to the newer contract. My very first one, we had to hire all new people. So it was a brand new contract that was not fun and they had specialties. And so that was unique. And so before then what I started doing was going out, building relationships with people that may be looking for a job. So I had a whole database of people with resume that I knew, but it was all in different areas. And I started going months before, I like I said, preparing as if I already had it and saying, if I was to get this, how could I hire? I was happy and fortunate enough that some of those people accepted opportunities. But when it came down to what the customer wanted, we needed to follow what the customer wanted. Yes. And what I mean by that is, I'm thinking, oh, we can just hire them and then that's it. No, no, no, they're extra steps on the government side that needed to happen and they needed to be tracked. And by the time you look at the step, I was familiar with some agencies that had 42 steps. That's kind of turned into 108 steps. So because they were new people. And so tracking that and making sure you met your fulfillment rate. And so communicating effectively why things were not going well. And that was where I had to go back and say about the personal development. Like, no, we are doing these things right. And in theory, people would be hired, but in execution life happens. And you have to look at those variables of hiring people. And although they may want to start on Monday, the government, they say, hold on, you can't start till next Tuesday, you know? And you have to be okay with those things. And it's not personal. And it's not malicious or any of those things. And I was okay with that. And I knew that was the case. It's just, we all want things to go our way. And you want to be a rock star. And so that was where I had like, why can't they just pit? It's there. How many people did you have to suffer your first contract? So it was a total, it was a, so I think on the first one, because it was a fairly large one, it was about 37 people. And those were all new people. All new people for that portion. And I just, I've had the mentality, all hands on deck philosophy, and we all did. We all did. And as we looked at it, it was, okay, where can we recruit? And I literally was like, I just didn't want to be the last man standing, if that makes sense. I wanted to contribute. I wanted to do my part. And I also wanted to understand. So I was like, I got these resumes, I've already called, they're interested. I just don't know what the process is. So even during the interview process, I'm like, thank you so much. This is what I, my understanding that you will be doing. I can't tell you a start date. Here's a tentative start. And they were accepting of that. Yeah. That model worked for me before in another contract. When I worked for someone else, and I built the team and actually- Oh, okay. So you took something you did before, and now you're doing it for yourself. Absolutely. And two of the people that I hired are now the PMs for that contract. So I knew the model worked. That contract is still going, your first contract is still ongoing? The contract I worked as a PM on before I left to start my own, that model of hiring everyone before I did the same process that I used to the same model, even down to the interview script. Nothing changed. You're like, let me take out my notes. Literally, literally. I remember I met one applicant at the coffee shop and I said, I know this is not orthodox. However, understand that this is a new opportunity, da, da, da, and they were okay. And they knew it was real and those things. And that's not normal. But hey, she had a lunch break. So you gotta get creative. Oh, okay. So I know those are not typical things that happen, but they're real. When I'm saying, hey, I know you're a great candidate for this opportunity and I know you have this skill set. And you said you're looking to work in this industry. Here is an opportunity that I think would be great for you. And so I, typically you don't meet someone at a coffee shop to interview them, not for an opportunity. I'll be like, are you real? Exactly. And that happened before. And I said, that is so unorthodox. And if someone heard that, they would say, are you crazy? But it worked out. And I was like, man, maybe I must be doing something different. And either, you know- Different is good. It's working. And so I'm from the school of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know? And if it needs tweaking, it's okay to tweak. And I literally always say, listen, I'm human. I make mistakes, but I want to make sure I do it right first. I want to make sure I understand. And so when I even through that process, I said, hey, is this the right way to do it? And I would check it and follow up. So we were able to meet our rate and they were gracious enough to work with us. And the project was a great project. And so I was really excited. How long was that project for? So was it for about two years? And it was kind of like a pilot program. And they took most of those positions and turned them over to federal positions. Oh, wow. That's good. Yeah. Your first, first of all, your first contract was for two years. Just the thought of the fact that that was your first personal win. It wasn't like a two weeks in and out job. It's like you had to maintain this payroll, this staffing, everything. Cause if someone quit, you have to replace them. It's not like you're just like, okay, cross it off the list. Yeah. It was never ending. And that contract was never ending, but I learned so much about that area, you know, that industry and what they were looking for and the customer. And also I built relationships with the staff. Where sometimes they didn't even know I was the boss. And when I say building the relationships, just humanizing and saying, how are things? Where can we focus on doing better? Collectively, what would you, you know, what do you need or what would you like to see? And, you know, so even some of my employees that are no longer employees, I still, you know, just say, are you okay? How are things and vice versa? So. I think that's what we need most in the world right now. It's just like, go to a place that you work that people actually care. Yeah. I think it's important. It feels good. And that's why I don't like the mask because it's like you can't, a smile can make somebody's, a difference in somebody's day. And the fact that you can't share that right now, it's just like, I know, so I know it's off topic, but. No, no, no, I'm with you. I actually went to an event for the first time amongst people last weekend. And I hugged everybody. I'm like, it feels good to like, hug someone that's not an immediate family member. I'm like, I know that sounds weird. I know. Yes. It's good to see people. Yes. It's good to see people in happy times and not, and forget like how we were a year ago that we're also scared to even like, go anywhere near anybody else. Oh my God. It was so, so TMI that the weekend that the president shut everything down was my birthday weekend. So I'll never forget it. I'm like trying to like say it because I'm like, I was so devastated. And I spent the entire day looking for toilet paper. Oh. I'm like, I'll never forget it. Oh, please tell, that was not your 40th, was it? No. Okay. Okay. I was definitely like, I have this whole thing. I mean, off topic, but I really want to have a soul train party. And so like, I never have it on my fourth, like the year you're going into. I've always had my birthday at the end of that year. Oh, okay. It was really sad because I was like, it was my 39th birthday. I was going to have my soul train party. We had to do the lie. That was going to be the whole thing. And I want it like all my friends and family, just to dress up in any era from soul train, even if you want to dress from American bands, Dan, I care. I wanted that. And my, my sisters thought I was crazy. Cause I'm like, I even want cereal as a part of the centerpiece. Cause as a kid, I would eat cereal. Watch, they're like, you really, you know, have gotten this all thought out. You planned it out. I just want everyone to have a good time. I said, I'm a giver. So for me, that would have been a wonderful time to resonate of when I was a kid, watching soul train and having everybody's favorite cereal. And we just have good music. And the whole idea is you can't come to the party if you don't dance, like you have to dance. You know? So I know that's a little bit more fun and not as like, gov-connish, but- Did you do it this year or no? No, because of COVID. So I may do it. Oh, you said that up there, it's still like a little shut down. Yeah. It's still a little, yeah, it's still a little shut down. So maybe another time, you know, something like another win or something like that. I may do it and just- Oh, there you go. Yeah. Celebrate life. Yes. I was going to say, just celebrate all your wins so far, your first win. I'm big on, even if it's my birthday, I don't want to like have like a whole thing of it. Like I want to have the party, but I don't like this- He's wanted a party. Just a- Just a party. A general party. Like there's not, you don't want to be the center of attention and the reason that people come to this party. Absolutely. I want people to go and dance and say, I remember I had, I went to this event and I had a great time and there was no judgment. You know, like to dance even if I can't dance. I like, I love that. I love when people are having a good time. Free. Yeah, but just having fun. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like just being in a good mood and just, you know, being happy. So yeah, that's my goal. I, it's kind of funny because I've put it out all the time. Like, I'm going to have the soul train party for people. It's so funny because even one of my customers is like, did you have that soul train party? And I'm like, no. Like, did you have that? I thought I was going to tell people about that. So sorry. It's okay. Oh, that's a good theme. I didn't think of that one. Yeah, it's different, you know, it's truly different. And it's, it's all ages, you know what I mean? And like all kids, like who doesn't love music? Music brings everyone together. So I just felt like that would be really, really kind of cool, you know, sort of for people to do that. But that's one of my, I will say, that's how I identify my success level if I'm able to have that party. I like it. I like it. Yes. And the key, I always do like KPI's mentally, but my KPI for that are key performance indicator is if everyone actually says they have a really good time for regardless of the age. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I know it's different, but I'm okay with it. You have, it's your party. But to be determined right now, you know, it's important for everyone to stay safe. Yes. You know, really, you know, get through this moment. So. We're almost there, I think. I think we're getting closer and closer. Yes, yes. So, so that was good though. Let's go back to now you won your first contract. When did you start looking for that second one? Almost immediately. And I say that because you got to have an on-ramp and I continuously said, okay, 18 months, right? And so I always have a rule of thumb if it's a new agency or if there's new opportunities it could take anywhere between, you know, 18 months. Oh, okay. It's a high barometer. It's a good one though. It's a very good realistic way of seeing it because some people, if they don't see it happen in a month, they're like, oh, it's not working. Exactly. Exactly. And so it didn't happen in 18 months. It actually happened within that first year. And, you know, it was an estimate to just doing good work with the customer. And they might happen. They were like, hey, do you have another opportunity or do you, you know? Was it the same agency? It was the same agency. Different department and all that stuff. Yeah. But yes, same agency and it was, I'm not going to say easy, but it felt easier. It should, right? Because after the first one, I think we get a sense of a little bit of confidence like, I did it. Yes. I'm like, okay, I got to do it again. Yeah. See if it's real, it's going to happen again. Absolutely, absolutely. And so I just went back to my notes and I'll tell you what needed to change and kind of just based on each contract I did that, even down to like our office manual, our back office manual, like PM guards, all that. I mean, it was kind of a little type A, B. I mean, obviously I'm colorful, but I'm kind of a little type A. Yeah, you need to list and the charts and the manuals and things in specific orders and that you're able to know exactly where to go to know what you're looking for. Yes. And one of the things that was my saving grace was because everything, most of my stuff is digital. So it wasn't a matter of like creating it from scratch. I used that downtime from before to already have the framework. So it was easier to kind of go back in versus if I didn't have it. And I'm one of those people that's put it in, have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. And so for me, it was like, oh, let me see what I needed to do. So I just used that as it applied to that opportunity and we just went from there. Awesome. When was your first contract, what year? That was, so the business search 2016. So that was towards the end of 2017. Okay. So 2017, you got your first one, then almost a year later, you got the second one. Yeah. How did... Yeah, so I'm sorry, almost before the beginning of 2017. So like almost a year out. Okay. Yeah. Okay, that's not bad though at all. No. Like you were on it. Yeah, I was gun hoe and then like late, almost like I want to say maybe fall, spring fall is when the other one came about of 2017. And it was just kind of on ramp. I do have to say, I was actually working on a project when I started my business. So for transparency, people didn't even know, a lot of people that I didn't know I had a consulting business. They knew of my other business because I was focusing on that as well. And when I decided to make GovCon serious, I wanted to make sure that I had those things in order. So kind of went back to scheduling that. So outside looking in people were like, you got rid of government contracting and you decided to work on this invention and this project and I said, yeah, for a little bit. But I, you know, again, just kind of humbly saying, yeah, I'm doing this. And they're like, how are things going? I'm like, great. And then after a while, you know, people are like, wait, so you do this business and that business? I'm like, yeah, but they're completely different. And for me, once I got my second contract, I felt like it was real and I was comfortable enough to tell people that I actually had a real business. And then what I mean by that is outside people or people like distant cousins at a cookout and they're like, how are you doing? What do you do? How's business? And I'm like, yeah, I actually have a legitimate business, you know? I just felt like, you know, my family, they're great people, but they're, you know, hardworking people. So although they believe in you, they're like, how's business? Is it a real business or a hobby? You know, and so after the second one, I'm like, nope, this is real. The training wheels are off. This is real. I can talk about it with confidence because I did it the first time and now I'm at the second time. So yeah. Oh, how many people, do you remember how many people you had a staff for that second one? I don't. It feels like a blur. Okay. So the second one was the blur. And then how many do you have to date? How many contracts? So right, I can tell you how many I've helped team. So I've had almost 13 that I've helped team. And I have other contracts work. We're in re-competes right now. So it's been a whirlwind. Now everyone asks all of us this, how did COVID affect your business? So COVID definitely affected the business. However, per the PPP, it did not affect the business. I actually did better per MRTPA. And so I'm like, how is this possible? I tell people, I was the busiest when COVID started. Like we were on conference calls and suppliers and this had two projects at the Coast Guard. It's like, yes. That was my reality compared to everybody else's. So I'm a little bit like, I feel like and not entitled, but I feel like I didn't feel the COVID because I was so busy. So I did professionally, I did not feel COVID. Personally, I felt it because of my staff, and what they were going through and being in the medical area and various areas. So they were throughout any position at that point, anything that was affiliated with the hospital overall, there may have been like a staff member that worked on my contract or something like that. So, whether they're nurses or other people, we had that experience. And so that hurt because I empathize with other people and I understand that that's a hard thing and whatever may have happened, but it was the busiest. I mean, nonstop, I was doing 14, 16 hour days. Yes, yes. And like most people adjusting with the kids and meetings and that was a huge thing. And I will tell you, most of our staff, we literally said, okay, if you have to have the baby sitting on your lap, we're gonna figure this out. And so that's, sometimes our meetings with the kids, whoever it was, and luckily enough, even sometimes the customers were, we did not do that with the customers, but there were times the customers had the same situation. Yeah, because we didn't know how to figure things out, having everybody at home at once. Like, wait, no, I'm on a call. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You couldn't say I'm on a call and you have a head peeking in the back. Yeah, so that was, that happened a lot, you know? And I think it's a good thing if the kids were involved, because I will say, at least for my little ones and that we're around, they asked questions or they said, because at one point they're like, what do you do? And I've had people say that, what do you do? And I'm saying, I just work, I don't know how to explain it. Depends on what day and time you ask me. So it kind of turned into that, and they were, my little helpers, you know? Where it's like, hey, shred these papers. We're gonna get you in the business, you're not. They're like, I'm working now. Yes, and she loved it, and she was really excited and she took pride in it, you know? She can't read, but that's okay. It's because she said, I'm doing a good job, I'm a helper. I'm a helper. Yeah, she's like, I'm a helper and we gave her stickers and all of that. And so we made it inclusive, our staff, we're welcoming about it. They think they liked her more than me. She doesn't talk back, she just does what she's told. She's like, hi, you know, and it was like. Do you need help? I'm so embarrassed, you know, I went to the client's site one day and I'm like, don't touch anything, be quiet. And she stole the show and I'm like, oh gosh, okay. So it worked out, you know? I, like most parents, they probably were afraid or you know, people that are helping and things like that. They probably were afraid to add kids or whatever, but you just kind of had to run with the punches and say, this is the new norm, but it was busy, you know? So one thing that I will say, I've learned from it is prioritizing personal health and having set, setting those boundaries because after a while the days got, the days would blend, you know? So how about for you? I mean, I know you say you were busy, but did you have that same situation where you like, is it today Wednesday? Yes, we had that point because there's a few days that we had like 16 hour conference calls. Like we all ate breakfast, lunch and dinner together and then waking up to do it all over again and all over again. And I worked from home that. So my days were already blended. So having that constant phone call and Zoom calls, it was just like, and with the kids, like we are doing PPE too. Like I took them to the warehouse and they actually shrink wrapped the, the, the pallets. So I'm like, let's go, I'm like, let's go guys. I need to take you with me. Exactly, exactly. So it helps and it's quiet. Yeah, and it's true. Like they got to know a little bit more of what I do because just like you, if you ask me, what do you do? I was like, well, before I was like, okay. So what do I do? My mom was confused. She just says, I work for the government. You're like, okay, I'll take it. Yeah. But then little by little, she started asking about like, what, how's the project going at the Coast Guard? Did you guys get the floor finished? I was like, oh, so it gets, yeah, your family gets to understand it little by little as you go along. So I will tell you, I have like a slogan and take it if you want it, but I got more comfortable with like telling people what I did, but instead of telling them exactly what I did, I tell them I'm a slash manure. And so they're like, what's a slash manure? I'm like, I don't know if you've heard, I love to go all techy, techy, but do you know what a multi-potential light is? They're like, what are you talking about? Go to TED Talk, type it in, you'll figure it out. So basically that's someone who's passionate about different things and then, you know, they have a job, right? And so they're like, okay. So they get this like, like, okay, I'm following, but I'm not following. Well, a slash manure is someone who does multiple things, but they get paid for it. Because at one point I couldn't explain to people like on this project that I do this, on this, I do that. And then sometimes I do, you know, hiring, recruiting, HR, whatever you want me to do. So I just found that that was really good to say, you know, and then when they would ask me, based upon if it was a customer or if it was, this is before COVID, if it was, you know, my family or someone else, I could answer to what made sense to them. And I thought it was, it worked. It helped. I knew it was real when my best friend said, you know what, I love you, but I don't know what you do with people. And I was, I had a glass of water and I'm like, I'm a multi-potential, and I was like, you know what, I'm the slash manure. And she says, what is that? And I had to talk to her in context of what she could understand. Yes. And that helped me a lot, a lot, a lot, because I found more people were becoming interested in what I was doing. And in order to help them understand what I was doing, I wanted to make sure it related to what they could understand. So I thought that was cool just to kind of have that. So. Okay, I found the title for your episode. No. Okay, cool. There you go. Slush. Because in all context of it, you said I teamed together 13 contracts. Yeah. Because they're not your, it's not your company's contracts is you help put them together. And like you said, depending on what the project is, is what role you play. You could be the hiring person. You could be just HR. You could just be project manager. You could just have found the opportunity. Yeah. So it's like it just depends on what it is and you go with it. And it's good because it's always gonna be something different. Yes, because at one point, like one customer was like, one of my customers I teamed with, and I call them customers, whether they're a team and partner. They're like, oh yeah, you helped do all of our BD and capture management. And I was like, I do. I didn't know that, you know? And so, you know, the other customer and they're like, oh, you know, we love that you help and advise and I'm like, okay, great. And then the ones that I actually, you know, manage, you know, I'm like, okay, well, I'm the PM and they're like, okay, okay. You tell us what to do. And I'm like, so it's hard to explain to others that may never worked in contracting, better yet government contracting to explain what I do. And so if I'm talking to a person that's an IT side, I may say things that are relevant in health IT. And if I'm talking to someone who's like more blue collar, may have worked in logistics or something like that, I'm able to say, these are some of the things I've done. And so I feel like a chameleon. And at one point I used to be like, oh man, this doesn't feel authentic. But I found that it resonated with the person I'm speaking with. And then also if it's a group of people where I've had to speak at events, I've done like, I love STEM. So I speak at STEM programs to younger kids. And so I found the slash manure is the way to go because they're looking at me like dear head, like what is government contracting? Like- It just sounds boring. Yeah, it's like fun. So when I say slash manure, they're like, tell me more. That's kind of cool. Cause they're like, I know it says entrepreneur, but slash, what does that mean? And I'm like- What does the slash mean? Yeah. That's where I got the lean in moments from the kids. And I talked to them about, you know, how you can do government contracting in any field. Like they use livestock. Anything that you sell the government works on and you have that specialty. I said, they actually buy toilet paper. They do. I said, they buy toilet paper. I said, so if you know a manufacturer, you're able to do that. I said, so it's a real business. And so I find that some of the kids are really interested in that just by using that word because I tried the whole, I'm a government consultant and the kids were like, can she stop? Like- But I love that you're talking to kids because me growing up, I've never heard of, the thought of having my own business never crossed my mind. Like that was for people that made it. Like you had to have everything to gather in order. So for me doing it, and even when Eric told me, I looked at him like, are you crazy? Like, I don't have anything. He's like, oh no, just go on SunBiz and pay your $125. And that's it. I'm like, it can't be that easy to have a business. So the fact that the younger generations are having that talk that put into their heads, it's gonna help them mold them into, I don't have to go into certain career paths. Like there's so much more now that they are able to do. Yes, yes. And I think it's so important because when I grew up, I will say, I really did wanna work in fashion and film and entertainment. Like I wrote that down. And kindergarten, I said I wanted to be a lawyer. Cause I did, I mean, I still may be one day in another life. Like if I'm ever able to retire, probably we'll do it. But I feel like you have to like focus all your time to do something like that. And so I knew that that was what I wanted. And when I became a teenager, I said, okay, let's be real. At a teenage age, you thought 40 was old. So I said, when I'm 40, then I'll start a business. But I'll probably be on the side. I never, so I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know what that meant. And I always imagine myself like speaking, like a proposal type of thing. I didn't even know what that was. And like someone saying yes or no, but I didn't know what that meant. You know what I mean? In theory, I just knew, I may wanna do that, but it'll be a part-time business or something I do on the weekends. So when it became real, it was really scary because I had all of these doubts. Like you said, I wasn't the smartest. My circle and my friends, they were smart. I felt like they were smarter. I wasn't the richest, definitely wasn't that. So I'm like, how am I gonna be able to do these things? And so all of those things that I felt like I didn't have, I really had to build up my confidence to say, you know what? I have everything that I need inside of me or to do this, everything that I need and I'm looking for, I have the capabilities of doing it. And if I don't, I need to try to prove to myself. So the hardest part was me. I mean, it really was, I'm still doing development work. Not that I've had low self-esteem or anything like that because that wasn't the case. It was literally saying I am worthy enough to do this, to start and I can complete it and I can keep going. I know that's probably cliche. I was gonna go, hallelujah. Okay, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. No, no, I get it. Cause I'm telling you, you're speaking directly to me, I think. I know the podcast for everybody else, but like you're speaking directly to me when it comes to that because we have to, somebody told me you have to start talking to yourself more positively, have more confidence in yourself. Everybody around you sees how successful you are. Yes. So you have to now do it for, you have to feel that for yourself. Yes, and so I always feel like every time I talk to the young kids, I'm talking to that little girl or that boy that people see those things in or when people don't. And they say, you know what? I want to try to do that, you know? And I say this because I'm a regular person. I put my pants on like everybody else, right? My mom used to say, you never mistreat people, you know? And so from the janitor to whomever, you speak. It doesn't matter where you go. When you walk into things, you speak, even if it's the president in your nervous, speak, you know? I won't protocol, but speak. So for me, it was like, okay, let me keep that in the back of my mind. But also I remember when I said, I want to do that, but I don't know if I have the goods to do it. And so I'm like, every day for me has been like a walk-in testimony in this process. I've had some, you know, down times and, you know, through that moment, but somehow or another, I was able to go through it and I was able to do that, you know? So for me, that was a big deal. And I'm saying, you know what? I may not be this girl, like this all that person, but if I can do it, I know you can do it. All you have to do is try and say make the commitment, I'm going to do it. And I said, I know it's probably not the most inspirational. I'm not giving you like all the like rah-rah inspirational things, but I'm like, it is real. Like if you want to do it, just say, you know what? Stop looking, don't look at any of the negativity or don't look at anything outside of that focus on your goals. And even if you don't have whatever you're lacking, prepare as if it happens. All right, it's already happening. And when it happens, you'll be like shocked. And so that's all I did. I just followed that model. I still to this day, follow that model and say, you know what? If I don't have this part right, or if I make a mistake, you know, in the process, I don't know what I don't know. I'm still going through, I'm still learning. That's the part where I'm like, as we speak, giving myself grace about things that I don't know and saying, don't beat myself up. What is the lesson learned that I can learn from this? And going through that, like literally writing it out. So when people are like, how do you do that? I'm writing it out and saying, you know what? This I don't like, but what could I have learned from it? Or what can I do better? That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. And that's what a lot of people need to hear. Honestly, that is what people have it in them. They just need to hear it from you, from me, from the other person that this is possible. And it just takes a little bit more self-digging to put things into motion. Yes, and block out anything that says it's not possible, because, so I was raised by my aunt and older people. So I'd like these little like cliches, but people say, and also as a part of this process, and I usually don't bring this up, to give you an understanding of how hard this was. I have my mom and my aunt have Alzheimer's. So that was my, one of those moments where I'm like, is this right? What do I need to do? And so it was so important and pivotal when I say, to give you an idea of why I say the chapters were closing in my life and opening in my life, because to me at one point, my entire personal construct of how I was raised, and what I mean by that is all the people who were matriarchs in my family, they were transition. And so it was really difficult for me to learn and not go back to them and say, what do you think? And not go back to them and say, what are your thoughts? Or like, I wanna run this by you, where I had to like dig deep and run it by myself and say, what would they have said? Just where you can't pick up the phone and call your mom and say, you know what? I have left it. So I know that's- No. It's time to be a little authentic. So people- No, yeah. The things I work on. And that was my biggest thing to say, not to get too personal, but for people to understand, things are gonna happen. And I said, this is the one thing that really could have crushed me. Not one, but two people that I love dearly that were my mentors that I looked up to in both ways. And who did amazing things. And who said, you know what? Impossible actually is, I'm possible without the apostasy. And they used to say that all the time. And I used to say, okay. And I would cry and be like, I'm possible. So, you know, you can't do that all the time, but, you know, but I honestly, before going to a customer and I'm saying, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do, I would psych myself out and like, I'm possible, I'm gonna do this. And another person who worked in government contracting years ago during a long administration time. Interesting enough, he passed a year after the business so he passed maybe a month after I got my first contracting. He was so instrumental in me understanding how it used to be. I love hearing old stories, right? So awesome. And you always call me his daughter. And it was just so, such a great person. And he also used to work in the music industry. I'm his wife did at one point. And so the cool part about it was he said, no kid, when I used to get down out and I would question myself. I'd go in the bathroom. He said, I look at myself and I'd tell myself a few things that I'd like to hear. And he said, I'd say, I'm one bad in that first. And I'm just huge. He said, I go out and I do it. And so I said, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna look at myself in the mirror but I think of that all the time. Like that made me smile. And that was like one of those moments where I'm like, okay, if he can do that. And he was like the most confident person. I've known him since I was a preteen, you know, from my family, he's done so many great things. And so I'm like, if he had confidence if you've been there you go, because he was super confident. To the day he passed away. That's awesome. Yeah. That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all your stories. And like you said, you want to see the real you, the real person that's behind this success. And I know you said, the Soul Train Party is coming when you feel that you've reached success, but 13 contracts? Like what more is it gonna take for you to reach that sense of like, huh, I did it. I'm successful. So I kind of cliche, but I feel like success is when you are able to inspire and help others and it's evolving. So short answer, I do have like my, I do have my KPIs and I do have my goals for 10 years. So when I meet those, personally. Okay. But honestly, if I am able to inspire and help someone else, I feel like that's my term of success. And if I'm able to grow the business and it's a great business that cares about their staff, care about their employees, and also care about the customer, do good work and build that brand and reputation. I honestly feel like that's a good form of success because a lot of times people in various communities may not have opportunities for jobs or are different places or they may want to learn. Now, obviously you have to be qualified, but sometimes it takes a little bit more because various industries are different. And so if you're able to help students or help people that are looking to do those things and provide a skill set or provide safety even to at least giving them a stepping stone, I think that's my purpose in life right now. That's what I feel like. And so through those opportunities and making sure that they're able to, then that's my term of success. And I want to say the story because what was pivotal? I had a cousin who came to live with me. She had a master's degree. She actually worked at one of the companies, I won't say. And she did everything right when came to school. And so she got her master's in IT. She got her undergrad in IT. She graduated with a 4.0 and she found out she needed to have her certifications for a particular job. And so what I find that's so inspiring and why I am so adamant about saying providing that conduit and sharing that information. Unfortunately, she wasn't unable to keep the job because she did not have the right certifications but the schools she went to, they always talked about having those degrees. And so I think it's important for businesses like us to communicate back to the communities of all backgrounds and everything to say, hey, yes, get an education but it's important in these industries. These are the things that you need in order to get that job. And so it was really difficult and very hurtful to see that she was not able to stay and stay in that position because she did everything right and she needed to take the test and she had test anxiety, you know? So for me that became a really big driving force. I'm happy to say she did finally get her certification but it was a pivotal moment because she was living in my house. Yeah, you have all these degrees that what you're supposed to do that society tells us if you have this, this and this you're successful, you've made it. And then you're like, oh, in the real world and they're like, oh, you need to just take a test. Yes, yeah. Yes, so that happened a lot. And so I found myself going to schools and telling just even sharing other companies like just so you know, this memorandum says you need this. Yeah, actually full disclosure, there was a STEM program and I sat and I did spoke with them because they were working on a STEAM project. And I said, sir, I wanna speak to you about your STEM program. If you have a lot of people going into IT or they wanna go into different agencies there are companies out here looking to hire people just in general that have those requirements and one gap that we're finding is they don't have the right certifications. So that is important, it's so important. And so just sitting down and talking with him about his STEM program and how that was he came back a few months later and said, I got a couple of college students they said they didn't wanna go to college. So they're going to community college but they got the certification and they got a job. That's awesome. That's great, you know? You're helping change the world. One person at a time. Yes. Well, I know you have to run but I wanted to thank you so much for sharing for your words or motivation. And I know that this podcast is going to really inspire a lot, a lot of people out there. Some of them, we're not gonna hear from them but just know that you have. Starting with this one. Well, I want to say I am so appreciative of you, Maria. I mean, literally I came in, I didn't know nothing. I'm like emailing you. I'm like, I know I've never met her and didn't call. So it is so great to finally meet you and speak with you. We talk all the time on email and you will be missed. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. Have a good day. All right, you do this. They save out there. We'll do. Bye. Bye.