 Let's go. Go to the white. There you go. That's a better place to start Yeah, you're live Well, I suppose I should probably be paying attention to when we actually are live and not and not just being like you're live Yeah, welcome everyone. My name is oh man. There was an epic pre-show. We've got Ryan rotated We're calling him the big giant head for this particular episode Rotated Ryan's big giant head. I know but hang on. This is something we can never do with Space Mike We can actually go to a full-screen shot of Ryan in the show Wow and that's magic back to big giant head Boom Huh, how cool is that? That's kind of other webcast. You know that can do that like most of them, but it's fine It's fine. It's fine. My name is Jamie Higginbotham. I will be your host this evening I'm the creator and executive producer of tomorrow not just the show I'm actually the creator and executive producer of your tomorrows And so that means that if you're not liking how your tomorrow is ending up It's my fault. So if you're having a really good tomorrow, that's my fault. If you're having a terrible tomorrow, that's not my fault I'm joined by Jared head. He works over at the Griffith Observatory Observatory things. Yes, observe Observinating the universe Observinating the universe exactly and I'm also joined by Ryan Kayton who is studying the universe He is a student of life at this point There is What what no We don't like that. Oh my god So in in the pre you know and I wanted to get nightbot going for this show But there was so much other there's so many other shenanigans. We got the whole set rotated We got big giant head edition of Ryan going like whole bunches of stuff So I didn't have time to get nightbot going but eventually we want to get it So you guys can actually vote on the title of the episode when it's all like in the live show You're going to be able to go. Hey, this is what I suggest the episode title is and then you'll actually be able to go Into a web page and you guys will the you the community can vote on what we will actually call this episode when it hits When it hits YouTube, which I think is going to be a terrible idea Yeah, I wanted to get it going for this particular epic so but it did not happen Maybe next week on that note. Let's get started. There's so much cool stuff the laboratory laboratory had some announcements But Go ahead start big giant head ready go Okay, so rocket lab came out with a little announcement on December the second yes, December 2nd Thursday and We they said they've announced that new trauma is happening a while ago They gave us a little concept art which looks nothing like the current concept art And it's basically a really cool big rocket Apart from the second stage and I'm really excited about it and it doesn't need a bar I mean to me doesn't okay. That is pretty cool. Although to be fair. That's like that's how rocket development works Is you come up with an idea? You're like this is what we kind of think it's gonna look like and then it goes through many different Dutt is just laughing back there Sniggering at my day job. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's that's kind of the point right is like, you know The rocket engineers are like, uh-huh. Yep, of course it changed. Sure. Yes We'll go ahead and do that for you. Okay I don't know. I thought it looked really cool or six months. They've got the integrated landing sticky legs, right? Yes, I love that. Isn't that cool? I love the shape of it. I think that was really clever Yeah, well well and the fairing thing but the fairings they just they just open up and close again Like why is no one else done that? That's a genius idea Well They're gonna have to look at some like dune copyrights or something. Yes starship is doing that I mean why is nobody else? I think that you only live twice Dr. Ernesto blow felt might be showing up at the doorstep in Long Beach What the screen on here? Audrey to from Little little shop of horrors stop. I don't think I've seen a little shop of horrors. Oh my god Apparently I have homework. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. All right. What else made you like? What else so Ryan what else made you excited about the neutron announcement and I'll same question to Jared and then like as Do you think the SpaceX community as a whole maybe some of the people who are more interested in what? SpaceX is doing and less interested in the industry as a whole. Do you think neutron excites them as well? Uh, well, you obviously get your SpaceX fanboys who only care what Elon Musk is doing, but This announcement from rocket lab. I feel it's more like We can do it too. Give them some years to develop it and then I feel like they maybe I don't think they'll be catching up with SpaceX anytime soon because obviously they've got starship development But I think this will be able to catch up to I feel like this will be able to catch up with Falcon over years of iteration like Falcon one compared to block five That's a massive difference This is what neutron looks like today. Think how it will look in I don't know 10 years time. Yeah, all right This was that this is their old presentation. I'm sorry. I misled you. Oh, no, you're right because the legs The legs are wrong. This is also. It's shiny. This is rocket labs Falcon one clearly Well, I would think their electron is their falcon one, right? Yeah, electron would be their falcon one. This would be their falcon nine block zero 1.0 or yeah 1.0. Yeah, or the first I forgot it went through different namings. It was like But first it was falcon nine and it was like falcon nine mark No, no one dot one falcon nine one point one dot one v one dot one and then it was Like I forget one dot two and then full thrust and full thrust. That was it. Yeah, that's right That's that's exactly you would think I would remember like oh my god. There's the SpaceX fans in the in the I know I lost all of my SpaceX points on that one. Yep. Yeah So, uh, what it's I do again other things that make you excited about I'm just I'm like big giant head other there we go Other things that make you excited about neutron, right? Um Like I said earlier the fairing design I think that's just genius because I watching the presentation like every other rocket that exists I was expecting our second stage at entire top part will just fly off And then the bottom half will come back But no the entire thing comes back and they just spit out the second stage of the fairing I'm just that completely baffled me Yeah, that is a pretty cool concept. Yeah, except that that's uh, so It sounds neat and then and it is neat and like obviously if you want Reusability recoverability reducing your costs that makes a ton of sense But the thing to remember is the reason you get rid of your fairings as early as possible Is they're heavy Right and your that's additional mass that you're carrying with you Which means that that's additional payload to orbit you cannot have Because you're carrying your fairings with you and that's why they're jettisoned on most Vehicles so there's an engineering trade that they made there to reduce payload capacity to orbit in order to Maintain those fairings. I'd say there's also an engineering trade too in what they're doing because they've changed the they've made a static Version of the internal volume of their fairings as well It's not like on a on a falcon nine or on an atlas where you have the ability to Well on a falcon nine the the fairing goes out considerably So you can actually have a larger payload on it because of the internal volume of the fairing On it like an atlas five you can actually plug and play different fairing sizes From united launch alliance there, but with this it's static. It's a part of the vehicle. It's part of the first stage itself I mean go go back to the image for a photo, right? So first off it looks like an alien creature of sorts It's awesome, which is kind of i'm hey, i'm not i'm not arguing. I'm just saying that's what it looks like I whoever said dune correct Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah um But then that that is a fairly small upper stage it looks like to me I mean hard to tell scale here in this photo, but like I mean that that main rocket is meant to be seven meters wide Yeah, what's a meter? It's a user measurement that the entire planet uses data including the aerospace industry Yeah, you know that too Well one thing about one thing about rocket labs is that they say that their upper stage is going to be the lightest That's ever been built because it's made of carbon composites. Do we know like what's making it so light? No, one of the benefits that they said is that they're actually hanging their Go to your camera. We're stuck on this image td. Yeah, there you go buttons and stuff um One of the things one of the things that they said that was a benefit is that they're actually hanging their second stage from Like the payload adapter fairing or adapter fitting So it doesn't structurally need to stand up to the rigors of launch like everybody else's does So like a falcon falcon nine and for example the the Interstage between stage one and stage two Transfers the load of thrust from the the basically the skirt of the tank all the way up to the payload Whereas this one they're hanging the second stage off of the that little ring You know here So essentially so essentially to kind of break it down Uh, the second so second stage on a falcon nine is is integral to the structural integrity of the vehicle While in the case of neutron they've mixed it up a bit and set it so that the second stage isn't as integral There's there's obviously going to be some load so that it will take Compared to you know none, but it won't be aero load. It won't be aero load And it will it will only be the mass of the payload Being pushed by the second stage. Yeah rocket engine. Wow. That is so that's actually an interesting idea It is but remember they're they're just what but what they're doing is they're moving The they're moving that to the boost stage, right? So it's not like that load doesn't exist and that that weight doesn't exist It's just that now that weight exists in the boost stage But it also means that you can potentially make your second stage for a lot less money Yes, right because it could be a simpler design and that's critical because they're not going to be reusing their second stage initially Yeah, what and that's the other thing is the initially but go once again go back to that picture How do you land that second stage? Or maybe you don't maybe you just dump it in the ocean Like how would you how does that come back orbital fuel depot? But legitimately how does that how it let's Maybe that's you know, maybe the trick is that second stage doesn't maybe maybe they've got it because you could just oh Another interesting bit about that You can change your second stage design without having to req wall pretty much anything in the boost stage, right? Right, you can do so Maybe that isn't actually what's going to go Maybe there's a second stage version two Block two that will actually get upgraded and be designed for recovery. That's actually kind of an interesting idea Theoretically they could put whatever they want in there Yeah People no, I mean hopefully in the spacesuits Well, they said people Yeah in the presentation they're gonna fly meat So I know for a long time the joke was we you know here at rocket lab We're not gonna fly meat, but now they are So because it turns out meat gets you money. Oh, you know what speaking of money Let's diverge really quick, but I do want to come back to this topic. Sure. We had a bet We did have a bet. We had a bet of one dollar That it would be foggy at vandenberg. I had liftoff Um, I'm not entirely sure who won that pet I don't you know and I'm going to agree with you that I don't know who entirely won that bet either because I've been out at vandenberg Right because the the intent of the bet was That you would be fogged out wouldn't be able to see anything. Yes, you were fogged out But you could also but you could also see things. Yes, right like the pad cameras saw the vehicle There was fog there, but the pad cameras saw the vehicle. So the tracking cameras didn't I so a friend of mine had Whoa, whoa, whoa. When did that happen? I first of all, I know blew my mind that week, too Um, but a friend of mine had a night vision monoc, monocular thing. Sure. I guess whatever was he a cyclops No, he's not a cyclops. Okay, so which actually makes it more difficult to use. Ah, that makes sense. This is your your dominant eye Did you know you have a dominant eye? Yeah, okay. I'm pretty aware of that Wait, did I just teach you something? I've got this fun talent where I can actually my non-dominant I was a lazy eye when I was a kid. So I had surgery to fix it and I can like cross one of my eyes And then just bring it back. So it's really fun Like one of my favorite things to do is just I'll I'll demonstrate to the camera right here Is that I'll just be in having a regular conversation with someone and just like if it's someone I really just don't want to keep talking with for for any longer. I'll just kind of do this And that's why you do that to me all the time and then just to You know shake my head a little bit. I diverged just from a moment. We are now two layers deep in inception of this conversation So let me bring it back to uh the bet van den fog We could see it We could see the the fairing and a little bit of the upper stage as you would be able to see uh from providence land So did you win the bet then? Uh, I mean we could see it with the night vision Because I believe you said that it would be crystal clear Like I believe those were the exact words you used and it is definitely not that it was not crystal clear But also all right, but anyhow, but but the thing is as soon as it left the pad it was crystal clear Okay, so that's the hard part about it though. So there was haze So like you could see like that 22 degree halo around it I think the way this works is I won half the bet and you won half the bet So you owe me 50 cents and I owe you 50 cents So back to neutron back to neutron Unless the internet disagrees I would love for the internet to tell me in the comments below who won that bet because there was fog But not so much that you couldn't see the rocket But jared did say that it would be crystal clear which it wasn't But also the intent is kind of that you're not going to be able to see the rocket. It's kind of an unspoken intent Yeah, it's just it's so did I win saying it was going to be fogged out or did you win I mean, I'll I'll the letter of your bet is that the weather was going to be bad The spirit of the bet Yeah, and that's that's the thing the according to the letter of the bet I won And I'm not a spirit of the bet jared one according to the spirit of the bet I still actually don't know who won. I feel like that's still 50 50 because it wasn't great I was saying ryan won the bet Yeah I'm fine with that So we all owe ryan a dollar, but is that like is that like a british dollar? Is that like worth like 50 cents? I don't I don't know. Actually, no, I suppose it how much is a dollar worth right now. It goes. No, it's the other way around right now Oh, no, no, let's not get it off back on this. All right neutral or jared. Why are you excited? Yeah only 76p That's like three quarters. What's a p? Yeah, what is it a pence right a pence? Yes a pence Okay Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about new tron jared. Why are you excited about new tron? Are you not? Oh, no, I'm very excited about new tron rocket lab has always been one of my favorite companies just because of how Very forward they've been and very open about a lot of the work that they've been doing that is nice It is nice. You know not a lot of companies do that. Yeah, it's also nice that peter certain colorful companies Yes, certain companies Um, I don't know. Oh, yeah color. Actually, they're literally the name of that company's on this microphone. Anya. Yeah, yeah Actually, you know that company might have bought these microphones for now. I don't announce it later So I'm pretty excited about it just because one I love rockets and like this is a new rocket on the market And I don't I have never thought of it as a bad thing is having too many rockets out there like sure It's just exciting that we're living in a time or you can literally If you're a satellite company sit down and be like, hmm, which rocket do I want to fly on? Which one can actually work for what I want? Um, actually, it's very cool that rocket lab looked at the market for what they think is the next, you know, like what 2050 I believe is what they said Okay, yeah, and looked at basically satellite constellations being a big part of that even though I'm an astronomer, you know Old astronomer yells at satellite constellations Actually, do astronomers do that? Do you just walk out at night look up at the sky and start yelling at the satellites? Um, no, uh, not really If not, I feel like that could be a youtube channel, right? Like angry astronomer like Satellite most of us are just like And then we go, okay, I'll write another proposal and I'll get my set. I'll get my time on this telescope again in three years So, um, anyways, that's another conversation to have later And um, I also appreciate that they're going with composites carbon composites, uh, and developing a system that can allow them to print that super fast, which I think is Important, um, if we're going to actually send humans to different places in the solar system You know if peter beck was here again because we actually interviewed peter beck, um, a number of times a couple of times And I love having like dollar bets with everyone if he was here again Because we had him on before they ever flew before the even thought of electron, right? He was talking about his next gen fuels and whatnot And um, then he started talking about electron And carbon composites if we had him on today and they weren't doing car carbon composites already I would have been him a dollar that he was going to blow that thing up Because of the the way liquid oxygen wants to interact with carbon composite like You just the reason you don't build a carbon composite stage is because it wants to blow up And so that's the technical term. Yes, and the question conflagrate Or definitely great It uh It's great. It's great The The thing is like electron has flown so many times and yeah, they've had some issues But they've never had a locks interaction issue And I don't know what their secret sauce is because as far as I know they're not using like a rubber inside Protectant thing liner. That's the word. I'm looking for. Thank you. I think rubber inside protector line A protector thing A locks condom Is that the name of the show locks condom? Locks condoms and I got it writing that down. I'm writing that one down. Oh boy Yep. Well, there goes this weekend's off to a great start. Yeah. Oh man. All right, so um Okay carbon composite you think that's really cool. I think it's super cool Because of the fact that they must have some kind of secret sauce That's going to allow them to work with cryogenics and carbon composites Because even space eggs was like screw this. We're not doing it Another cool thing as well Is the the look of neutron as well So, um, if you have ever followed my twitter account, you know that I am absolutely if I if there's anything that I fanboy over In aerospace it is mcdonald douglas's dcx I absolutely love dcx. It does that's the try that's the flying wedge flying wedge It does not get enough recognition for what it did because it was doing a lot of these systems in learning to land and fly and The automated in their flights and things like that in in terms of landing and entering atmosphere and and using atmosphere to slow down and and Firing your engines so that you have maximum thrust right at the point that you land with zero velocity A lot of the companies can basically trace lineage back to DCx and some of the work that it did I would argue that most reusable rockets today In some way stand on the shoulders of dcx. Yes be it from data that they acquired or whatever the case may be Yeah, and dcx wasn't the only one There was a group at jacksa that did it in the 90s as well And I would say mastin as well Let's work that they've done with things like that. It's very important But dcx is really like the genesis of I think I feel like mastin also stood on the shoulders of dcx Like dcx was the first. Yeah Well, it's I mean dcx most certainly beat mastin to doing things like that No, I'm not I'm not trying to diminish what mastin does. I'm just saying that like yeah, like that's the starting point Is dcx and and the like you've got that data set from them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got you. I got you But yeah, I'm just such a huge dcx fan and it looks exactly like dcx And I'm just so excited that like here it is, you know dcx is finally gonna. It's like a round version in dcx I don't care. It looks like dcx. So that's all I care about is the fact that it looks like dcx So yeah, that's what I'm excited about and also Flying people, you know, because it was a that was a very hard no from peter beck when he was on our show He said no, we're never going to do that. But yeah, I think he actually used the word never to I'm pretty sure he did never going to fly. So he had to eat his hat He had to call dada There you go. He had to eat his hat. So dada is a little off his game tonight I'm asking actually Yeah, there you go, I love this I love I love that they did this so much he did I know he really did He's one of those people he he will deliver on what he says. This isn't oh, he absolutely does You know what as I learned you don't bet against peter beck. I lost I lost 20 bucks to him That's gotta be framed to somewhere it is it is uh, so okay, so um Yeah, so he literally had to eat his hat because uh, I forgot why what was that if a recovery that was it We're not going to do feasibility blah blah blah blah And then yet here they are doing it. He's like if we do that, I'll eat my hat and Here we are. So I feel like because he said he wouldn't do humans. So what does he eat now? What's the next thing that peter beck needs to throw into a blender? Vote down in the comments below. We got a couple of things you need to vote for this week Composites. Oh, no, I think that could really tear apart your stomach. Yeah, that would be a bit crunchy They'd be like eating fiberglass. Yeah, that would not be good. Oh man, that cotton candy was delicious. My stomach gets Also, I just want to say I don't know who produced that that segment. Oh, right Oh, that was slick. That was really well done. I was watching I was entertaining the entire time I think peter beck had great on-camera presence. I don't know if they were using a real led screen behind him Or if they were doing effects If they were doing visual effects that even if did the the slight lines in the screen to emulate what an led screen would look like And the reflections on the floor. Yeah, and I noticed that I think that was either projectors or led screens I think it would no, I think I don't think it would have been projection I it could have been projection But you could see the lines and so if there's a line there that would indicate to me not projection Could projection would blend is a soft one of the ones to the right of middle was with the color balance was off Oh, well, uh, that could still be led Yep, uh, but that is pushing more towards led either led projection. But again, I saw lines Oh, you know, I suppose I could be an imperfection in the surface Well off topic point is I thought was phenomenal. I thought that the the production standards were Excellent the effects were fantastic They were on point with story, which is always one of my things of like you got to tell me a story here Well, well choreographed. Well, yeah, yeah, like I I was entertained from the beginning to the end I understood what they were doing understood why they were doing it. I love that bit I thought that they did just an absolutely stellar job Yeah, I think with peter peter as well Peter did a fantastic job. Well, because it's it's well known in aerospace that CEOs aren't necessarily noted for being particularly good at Giving presentations. I don't know. He's always been very charismatic and like really great on camera even when he's live here I was gonna say he is one of those people that like once if he's on a camera. He is effortless He's not really passionate about this stuff, right? Yeah, and he and he doesn't have to put I mean when I was interviewing him, it didn't feel like he was putting God, it sounds so pretentious of us now like Well, when I interviewed peter back, um, you know, it didn't feel like uh, he I don't I don't say like he was being lazy But it just didn't feel like he was putting in an effort because he wasn't having to like Think super hard about things like it just all flowed naturally. Like he was in a flow state while we were talking to him Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, like he just knew exactly what I was going to say next and then was able to answer He was a hardcore engineer, but also like personable and like That's scary. Anyhow, um at at oardo. I don't know how to pronounce that I apologize said the video fantastic, but the bit rate of the export was a bit crappy. I I didn't um I don't remember seeing that, but I think I was also watching it on my phone Frankly same here. Yeah Yeah, as someone please being ryan back in the discussion. Oh ryan like this was jared's moment Jared got a moment and then we kind of moved my week. We go in a circle Yeah, so again the whole point of this show is the can yeah kind of The whole point of the show is to have like casual conversations about space as if you were a bunch of space geeks Geekin out, you know over dinner or you know over a drink and so yeah the conversation will ebb and flow Yes to and from people also ryan is not a man of many words He just isn't he says his bit. It's usually quite profound and then he's like cool now go have at it I in the other hand Mic drop although that doesn't work here just No, it just still floats Yeah, we're on station 204 to zero g mic Yeah, so the gravity plating on station only works for humans. It doesn't work on microphones that are Tied up by the tv Well, you're not a human you're an android There you go All right other news. Uh, so I think we're done with new term. We spent like 30 minutes talking about it Although it was exciting. It was really cool. It's really exciting. I was excited How can you not get excited for like a company that is like in the wheelhouse of of the specific part of the Launch industry that they're in saying we're gonna be doing something new and bigger like come on That's super exciting. Yeah, so I guess if you want to answer how you cannot be excited about being the specific in As a wheelhouse, you know, leave your comments below whatever you just said. All right, uh, was there uh ryan Was there any spacex news or anything else that happened this week? Uh, oh Every guy every guy Hey All right, let's change Jamie's about to eat the man of many words comment Ryan go Oh, uh, oh, that's all I can say really elon has been It's been typing on his emails to everybody It I I don't think that was meant to get out of spacex, but um it did And what was it? Yeah, what was it that got out? Uh, so apparently according to elon musk Uh, if if starship doesn't fly every two weeks next year spacex is going to go bankrupt and Everything's going to turn to fire and badness and basically Yeah, it's a bit um Well, I don't I don't know how to describe it really I got I got two words. I got two letters for that B s That's all I can say about that. Yeah, b s. I swear that is it's just Oh I don't I don't know how to describe the tactics work that he's trying to do here, but like it just felt It felt so weird and wrong. It's just like Why When I read that I was just scripting news. I was just like why Yeah, I mean I don't want to necessarily say it read like a creative writing project from eighth grade But it was definitely definitely felt like it was a economics like a economics paper from from somebody Who was Gosh, I don't even know how to say it nicely. That's the hard part trying to be respectful And it's difficult because it was just so like so so much Oh gosh, I just it's Yeah I you have to consider the fact that spacex raised over three and a half billion dollars over the past two years When we've been in a pestilence induced recession And like you're telling me that there aren't a bajillion People who want to throw as much money as they can at spacex in investment rounds and other things like that Yeah, so Yeah I just am so not buying Any line of that there so Yeah, yeah, I mean they've got falcon. They've got dragon. They've got so many contracts I've got so much investment. There's absolutely no way That by not flying starship I got next year that the company could go under that's just that's just not gonna happen Yeah, I find that very very difficult to believe and Game over no not at all with that so But that was there were some interesting things that were in that like shell and funk is pointing out Which if I can hit that correctly There yes The new version of starlink apparently is too big to fit in the falcon fairing. So they're committed to using starship Is that which is risky when there's still prototyping it? So possibly You know if you if you look at the history of satellite communications Especially delivering internet from orbit every single company that's done that has failed So it doesn't mean spacex is gonna fail with starlink, but it is You know odds aren't in their favor, but of course, you know If there's several people I would never bet against and peter beck and jpl are there and spacex is another that I would never bet against as well That's that's another reason why I don't believe the bankruptcy Thing going on with it as well because I just I don't imagine that happening On on elon's watch with something like that Do we know or imagine what the limitation there is or can they not fit enough inside of a falcon 9 payload fairing that They can get them to orbit or what's what's the limitation there? I don't know. I'm not I'm not sure whether anything has been released like numbers wise on a on starlink v2 um I presume by saying not fitting that a whole cluster of them wouldn't be able to fit in a fact because like on star ship It's massive. You can stick as many things in there as you want, but you can't do that on falcon a starlink batch anabas Yeah Yeah, and the whole point of starlink working and becoming effective is getting as many up as as rapidly as possible So that's where I could see the idea of wanting to do a launch every other week by the end of next year I don't necessarily think that I don't necessarily think the context of that was Correct in what most people were interpreting with it. Um, I feel like that was more like a a aspirational goal as as elon often does with the multitude of things. Um, but you know, uh Yeah, it was just It was just amazing. Yeah, that's where I was pointing out You know falcon 9 can do almost 23 000 kilograms to low earth orbit. How big are those starlink 2.0 sats? They've got to be pretty big Yeah Obviously we need to get the space shuttle back up and going so we could start deploying One starlink from each shuttle. So and we'll get we'll get space shuttle at lannis. Um to do that. So it's already there It's fine. You just got to lift it out of the museum. Exactly. Yeah, it's already you got to deconstruct the building around it That's the biggest hurdle there, but you've got it. You just got to it's fine You've already got an external tank there as well. You've just got to make it a real one That can't be that hard. Yeah, and uh Massimo kind of has uh, what I thought what I kind of took away from it Which is that you know the version 2 satellites are bigger than need a bigger rocket The just of the emails that they have production issues worse than what elon thought that they were in the bankrupt See thing as bs. So yeah, kind of in hard agreement with that there with our chat room our chat room is big Like I don't disagree with just about everything our chat room is throwing at us today. So uh, thank y'all for that We're watching uh with that there. It's pretty it's pretty cool when that ends up happening. Um, but uh Yeah, it's Yes, yes, you did chris. Oh, yeah Um, oh Goodness, oh goodness. I just read I just read that one. So um, yeah And also vax is pointing out that elon on twitter nine hours ago Just said that the construction of starships orbital launch pad the cape has begun Um, so I guess I saw that that's quite exciting. We're back on that florida Again and make a knot happen. Yeah, so um, yeah Chris i'm still laughing about Right when they do the the once around orbit to hawaii, what what are they going to land on there? Do they have they built a pad in hawaii to land on or what? They're going to land on the sea and Uh, yeah, if it even gets that far walk on water elon musk, yeah, it's going to do that exactly Uh, elon musk doesn't if even said if it gets to the orbital velocities needed to get to hawaii, then that'll be a great success so At this point if we believe what elon says, we're not even expecting it to get to that scratch down point If it does get get to that point that will be incredible Yeah, um Yeah, that's that's going to be something else. I really hope it doesn't blow up Um in the first 60 seconds. I hope it's at least well over the gulf of mexico before if if it were to unzip and and blow up Um, please do not occur Close to the pad or the ground or the city nearby in that area So that would be uh very very bad. Yeah. Oh, yeah facts there saying That it's going to elon said if it gets off the pad before it blows up He'll be happy. I think he said that about falcon heavy as well If I remember correctly and then johnny space are saying it will land on a big trampoline Out there, so I wonder who's going to put that there. So, um, maybe we can maybe we can get maybe we can sponsor somebody Or get a company to sponsor like a landing pad out there and we could figure out where to do that You know, like maybe everybody wins like a free taco or something. You know, that'd be pretty sweet So I would I personally would like that. I don't know about you guys Uh y'all with that. So So with that. Oh, yeah, vax pizza hut. Yeah, I think that was a thing actually with I want to say space station Oh, yeah, so with that so yeah pretty funny With that so, um Ryan can you speak to some of the issues that they're talking about with raptor? Is it most is it production issues? Or is it like issues with the design of raptor because I actually don't 100% know I haven't read entirely up about that. Um, so I figure if anybody's going to know really well, it's going to be you about that And you'd be wrong because I'm not sure I'm not sure what part of the raptor part is elon said about uh staying in the factory With the production line, so I'm going to I'm going to assume That it's a production issue They need because they obviously there's a lot of raptors underneath super heavy and under starship And think how many of them they're building then I ramping back up production was seen parts of ship 22 They've also got ship 21 already built ship 23 is probably already around the corner and the new boosters That's a lot of raptors So they're going to need to be producing them quite quickly So I'm presuming from what elon said that is a production issue And not an actual flying issue because we've seen them fired before and they seem working. Okay Yeah, shell and funk. Uh, kind of kind of running with us there Which is I think it's just slow production rather than any particular part of the engine and yeah It seems that way with with elon's email there. Um, also, uh, Masimo saying Will he start manufacturing at the cape as well ship the whole or ship the whole thing There and pieces and do final assembly at the cape. I think it's going to go I I would assume at least it's going to go back to what it was like Um before they consolidated everything at starbase and that they actually do have a separate team at the cape But also I've been probably very wrong Um about that as well. I'm not sure on that Yeah, I think I think because the tweet happened nine hours ago. It might be a little early on that I'm I'm just Might be a little early. Yeah, and then of course also with that pads at 39 a actually quickly. Yeah What are they gonna call it? I'm not sure because nasa have built the little smallsat launch pad 39c But it's within the confines of 39 b This new orbital launch pad is going to be in the confines of 39 a so What are they going to call it? Is it going to become 39 d? Well, if if falcon nine is going to eventually be retired I figure they're probably going to end up just keeping 39 a As it's not 39 a though, is it? You know, it's not but the 39 a it's the say it's the same pad in the exact same spot We're sat in five shuttle falcon nine and falcon heavy have taken off from if they're building a new orbital launch pad That isn't on where that the specific location on earth is that's not the same pad though, is it? Yeah, well, you can't say this is the historic pad when it isn't Yeah, lupi is saying 39 d, you know just taking the usual naming conventions Our avail has kind of an interesting one 39 double a On that there. Oops. Uh, we got that. Yeah, there we go 39 double a I like matt clark, which is 39 x Um, that sounds quite nice. That's not bad. Then again, that's not the other that comes after c so yeah It does it does it just comes way Not directly after c. Yeah, I you know, I'm going with 39 x. I quite like that. I think that works pretty good So tweet that and get credit. Yeah quick quick. You better. So whoever's got that in there. So Yeah, and actually there was one there's something somebody had a really good comment here about raptor that I wanted to Point out real quick. Oh, where is it? Basically saying that you know, uh, Where is it? Oh, I just thought I saw it Basically saying that, you know, we're already talking about the second version of raptor. Oh, yeah, here we go Um, so shallow and funk shallow and funk just bringing it today Still crazy to me that they're already working on raptor two and raptor one is barely out of prototyping Um, talk about rapid progress of space x. So yeah, he comes very very quick. Um, So yeah, it's it's impressive at how fast it goes. Um, but ultimately we'll have to see What the limiting factor ends up being with something like that money money? Yes, of course Um with something like that hence the bankruptcy email Yeah, you know, I still feel like the bankruptcy email is just just a a light of fire kind of email. Um, yeah I just it's really difficult for me Is that like lewis hamilton saying his tires are shot. Yes. It's it's uh, yeah, thank you for that data I appreciate that one. Um Thank you. Thank you. That a great good insight stuff. Um, and uh, yeah, it's it's to me It's just sounded very much. It's just a startup kind of thing, right? You know, uh, gosh almost two decades in and we're still getting the startup emails But I mean if it if it motivates the right people to do the right thing, then I guess it did its job, right? Um, what I have done something like that. I don't think so but also like I'm not trying to run my own rocket company So I'll try to reserve judgment on other people who are running their own rocket companies With that there. So anyways Yeah, y'all's uh, so that's uh, it was definitely a whole lot of interesting stuff has happened Over the this previous interesting is the right word. I think this previous time Um with that there. So yeah, yeah very interesting stuff. So, um Um Good stuff. So is that your wrap? That's my wrap for it. So I don't know how to get out of this one So he always does a soft wrap and then it takes it's a minnesota soft wrap. Yeah, I'm very I was trying to figure out like do I can I go back in the congress? We're back in we're back in welcome back Any other fun stuff from like the astronomy world this week jared? Uh, yes, actually will dart obviously launched double asteroid redirection test and it and it reached the asteroid and pushed it all the way already Right, no, it has no that's how that works. Still got some time for it to get to another week or two No, it'll do it october Well, that's that's coming up No, that we were already past october. It's just 11 months from now. We're past october We just got out of october of 2022. Uh, so bummer. Yeah, I hope they hit it on my birthday though I would definitely appreciate that. What's your birthday october 7th? No, so I should have known that and yet I didn't so Yeah, well, I mean hey, did the for I've already forgotten it. Yeah, it's okay. So you wrote it down. So you didn't have to remember Thanks, um, so yeah, and it's a very exciting mission because this is as I've been jokingly saying, uh, Hashtag earth shot first With this here, um Heading out I almost just spit tea out of my mouth. Good. Good. I hope you do. I hope you do. I hope you do I know. Okay. Hold up. I see there's a line of swag that has to happen There has to be swag that says earth shot first with the dart mission. This needs to be a thing That is amazing. I love that. I love that in the star wars one. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes I actually have the hotshot first t-shirt. I think that would be a good plan. Yo, oh, it's brilliant It's brilliant. I'm sorry. So dart dart. Thank you. Uh, thank you very much I would like to say I was the person who started that by the way. Were you really so I didn't see anybody tweet it before I did It's brilliant. Oh dear. That's brilliant. I love it. I absolutely love it. So, um, any and uh, yeah, that's mine But yeah, heading out to the, uh, binary asteroid, uh, or actually It's not as a bass droid bass droid. No, we can't say that. That's bad I didn't think that went through. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's okay. We forgive you Um, the binary near earth asteroid diddy mos Gesundheit Yeah, well, you know, it's moon is called dimorphos Um, but i'm still i'm so mad. Why is this moon called that? Is it like Like mythology or something. I don't know before it got called dimorphos. They called it diddy moon And i'm still really mad that okay, you know, we're taking naming rights away from astronomers That's it. I you guys can't name anything anymore. I'm not gonna disagree with you So don't worry. Oh god, there's that. So, um, so with uh, with dart going out to diddy mos and going to be Smacking into dimorphos what we're basically looking for is seeing how much is dimorphos How much is its orbit moved after dart impacts it? So, um, uh, a few days before it impacts It will actually deploy a cubesat out that is going to take imagery of the impact As it's going in. Also, it's got a camera on board that's going to take imagery all the way until the Real-time feed stops because it'll smack the asteroid at about eight kilometers a second real-time feed Well, it'll continuously send back photos as best it can. I don't know the Continuously sending photos as best it can is a little bit different than real time. Okay real time as best as it can So yeah, yeah with that's going to be like one image every couple of minutes sort of thing I wanted some youtube 1080p go latency like i'm disappointed. No, you know, I can turn the screen off ryan You got to remember it's it's taking so it's taking these images very rapidly because it's using this camera to navigate as well Yep, and it's using this camera to make sure that it's going to hit What's the resolution and like what's the bit rate that it has back to earth? I don't recall Because these things mattered. I do recall seeing that like like six hours before Impact it's finally going to be like two pixels in size. So it's not a lot But just like ai the the the or just like your iphone ai will pick the one with your eyes closed Exactly. Yeah, that's the way it'll work. I think people are expecting like live real-time video No, I highly do not expect that this is going to be like a few images really low res so The thing about it is is that the cube sad is going to be taking imagery as well and sending that back as quickly as it can Um and look I see look in space in satellites as quickly as it can can mean a week Yes, so I know there's this again. There's this weird expectation I think the people are going to be able to watch this thing in 1080p So initial so you'll initially get photos, you know photos of things This is like I don't know if anybody watched Live when nasa's deep impact mission Um ran into a comet on july 4th 2005. I did because it was a huge nerd as a child Passed sense through it through a telescope through a telescope. Yep. Why were you doing that? I was in the middle of the desert. Oh, okay. Did you see anything? Yeah, nice. Really? Yeah Okay so They got a few They got a few images like those quick images down from the the flyby vehicle Quickly of the impact or smacking into the surface of the comet But again, those were only like hand onesie twosies sort of thing. Yes, but that's like better than nothing Oh, absolutely. I'm just making the point. This is not going to be video the day after is when it will likely get All of those images back and then we could string them into a video. So Yeah So i'm sorry. What do you want us to do? No nothing nothing to do these things I'm not no All I'm trying to do is set proper expectations so that because what happens on these missions is if you watch it live I first off these things are very exciting and it is going to be very very cool But what you're probably going to see is a control room of people Is this a I forgot this is not a jpl mission. Yeah, this is uh, uh, uh, this is a hopkin John's hopkins university. Yeah, right. So you can see that control room. Not that's not the jipple control room But that one the apple April Yeah, that it's applied. It's the applied who apple. Who apple? No, I think it's just apl, right? You're gonna see the apl Yeah, you'll see the apl control room and a bunch of people sitting at consoles and you're gonna see them go Yay, and then you're gonna wait a little while longer. You're gonna see a single image and you're gonna go Thanks for watching and that will be the broadcast. I think actually it's gonna be more like we've lost the signal. Yeah It'll actually be the first time anybody in a control room in a major mission event will be like, yes signal Actually, it was really funny like a couple days before the launch I actually ran into somebody at the observatory who was working on dart And was out there for the launch with everything with it to work at Vandy in the control room to make sure everything was working fine And I said, I've never been able to say this before about a mission, but I hope you crash So, uh, yeah, so we're really excited. Oh my god wouldn't it be amazing if it didn't and it missed the I'm already nervous about james web space telescope coming up in a couple weeks. Uh-huh Couple weeks and plus three days, right? Yeah, we'll see is hopefully they don't have another Vibration event where they accidentally set something off again and I love how they're like, I love how they're like oopsie dubbers What's four days already on top of 14 years I mean, I I think they should take the time and be sure right like you don't want to screw this You don't want to be the person who screwed this one up if I if I can be like entirely honest here I don't think it will be the end of nasa's astrophysics division Um, but when Hubble was screwed up there were people calling for the end of nasa's astrophysics division Okay, now what if you're not completely honest? What You said if I can be completely honest now, yeah, don't be completely honest And then what do you say things will be perfectly fine and they'll build a second one very quickly They'll just ring someone up at the nro and get a get another round of mirrors And So you're excited for james web. So james web, uh, you're excited for are you excited for yeah, we talk Yeah, so excited for james web. It's just one of those things that it like I've heard about this as a child And now it's finally happening And I don't know that really been that long. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing So well, hey next generation telescope in the late 90s You know, we were in fact talking about this during space vidcast days, weren't we? Yeah, that's when we probably were Yeah, I feel so I I know This is not good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm Yeah I'm just nervous thinking about it right now. I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight So you'll get off my lawn with your new age satellites I would not call j. It's jwst a new age satellite. That is a decades old technology That is cutting-edge technology. It is cutting-edge technology. I'm very sorry to break it to you But now there is no other type of infrared optics that james web is flying with It it has to be considered cutting-edge technology until something better comes along and nothing better has come along yet Yes, so even though it's from the 90s not that you know Yeah Hasn't been I don't know. I don't know. I'm just gonna stay here and be quiet. So conspiracy theory conspiracy theory I was gonna say because the aliens have all of the technology in s area s4 I'm not saying it was aliens, but exactly what it is aliens like big hair. All right I've really really broken the show now. Yeah, anything else is your show to break. So that is true That is true anything else you're excited about ryan Um No We do have a comment coming up that you might be able to see so called comet lenard So, okay. Now, that's a fun name. We're waiting for it to get who named that that an astronomer did not name that So it's a backer name. I bet right. So, okay. Can I kind of may I google this go for it? Yeah, he asked permission to google. Thank you. Well, you know, usually you're like, hey, you know Uh talked to the internet. So astronomer gregory lenard discovered it. So he named it after his last name That's like if I found something like oh, I'm going to name this comet head That would be amazing. That would be pretty cool. That'd be amazing. Yeah, or like hail bop, right? We all remember hail bop from the 90s, right? Oh, actually vax has a really good comment Also, I just want to say one more time vax. I'm loving the new logo more importantly on james webspace telescope Nobody has built a superstructure that weighs that little that is that big and that stiff that has actually flown So what you're saying is potential point of failure point of failure and point of failure There's a lot. Well, am I wrong data? You're not. No, I'm just saying you're not wrong. That's why I'm also scared How many new things can we put on this? Well, okay. So and and I will respect that I do I'm I'm mostly I'm just trying to get a rise on you which is not necessary today for some reason Like you're doing it to yourself. I'm already rocking with it. Yeah Um, it's already advancing a be beyond uh, Hubble's capability because it's not even going to be focused as it goes up It has to focus on in station after it assembles itself Yep, arguably that might be better because of Hubble had the ability to do that. We wouldn't have had as much of an issue I feel like that's actually an advantage But every single one of those mirrors the motors on them has to work What okay, so it's just a good point because there are tons of mirrors up there What had well, I say tons but there are no, there's little little tons Huh What happens literally what happens if one doesn't get into position? Can they can they work around it? Can they refocus the light, you know? Possibly so um, a lot of people don't know this because all what they know about Hubble is that it had Yeah, um, it had the issue when it was deployed in 1990 and then it took until the amazing scs 61 Story must grave led mission right gave it some glad 1993 to give it co-star with some glasses Um, that's a monocle. Oh, we gave it. Oh, correct. Oh, yes. It's a monocle correct It is a cyclops. Yes. It is a cycle. It is a cyclops. Yeah Thank you. Thank you. Cyclopses. Yeah, okay anyhow. Yeah, it's like cyclops So not a lot of people know yes It's not a lot of people know that during that three year time period They were still doing observations with Hubble It was still on par with the best ground-based observatories that we had at that time and they developed Computer algorithms that would basically deconvolute the images. So basically get them back And clear out the noise and the messy light and everything in it Once they figured out how the light was bouncing incorrectly They figured out how in a computer to literally get rid of that bouncy light that's in there And they ended up getting images that were actually pretty close to What you would actually expect from the full resolution of Hubble at that time That's pretty cool. So we didn't even need to send up that very expensive mission No, we did because there were other things that broke a lot was up there So yeah, there was a there were a lot of things to win row reaction wheel of sorts Yeah instruments, uh, it didn't work uh solar panels that were sketchy, you know Didn't they have to replace a computer as well? a couple So that that bodes well for james web. Oh remind me. Uh, what does the servicing mission to james web look like again? It looks like uh, everybody's sitting on the ground crying and drinking heavily And so and careers ending. Yeah potentially, right? Yeah. Oh, I just realized this has been 30 years right we've been there there are people that have potentially Oh god gotten their job like out of college working on james web And have been working on this for decades and it is all they have known and it's is james web is literally their entire career Yes, that's typically how a mission is gonna work If you're doing if you at least a flagship mission on the level of something like james web Like casini casini started in the 80s It was going to be a joint mission between the european space agency and nasa at that time And then nasa basically had to pull out of another mission that the european space agency was going to be a part of Which ended up turning into rosetta Um, uh the mission to a comet and that was just to keep casini ready to go and still keep Still keep the european space agencies lander hoagans as a part of it And that started in the early 80s and didn't end until 2017. These are people that literally have worked Almost 40 years of their career on a single mission. That's incredible to me. That's what they've done So and there are people that will also spend the entirety of their careers In like a single part of missions. So like when I could think of is uh, um Uh, why am I forgetting her name? She the imaging on voyager and casini. Oh, no, that's all right Um, but she she worked on voyager and casini and like i'm talking like from the 70s all the way up to the end of casini's mission So like that is just like one career involved in imagery And just making imagery and uh, thank you carolin porco Yeah carolin porco. Thank you so much. There is a really great comment From johnny spacer says after Hubble, I really don't understand why james webb space telescope wasn't made to be serviced And actually there's a technical reason for that. There is a technical reason for that. Um So the reason why is that james the james webb space telescope is absurdly cold, right? We've how cold is it? I think it was what did we say like 40 kelvin something like that, which is really cold Um, so uh, so it's cold enough that if you were to send a vehicle to james web the Thrusters whatever you use for the propellant for them Will actually go through deposition. So it'll go from a gas to a solid Right on to the electronics right on to everything that's called the radiators right on to the optical assembly right on to the instruments Right on to the actual, you know Mirrors themselves. It's so cold that that is what will happen That you will literally ruin the telescope just by approaching it That's actually kind of cool. And that is what I was told directly by an engineer from northrop grumman at griffith observatory That's really so but but hold up. Can you not use an alternate form of propulsion if you can find something Well, hold on that will not Depose yeah, yeah, yeah, there's an assumption that we're sending humans up there But what if we just got humans close-esque, right like Just Really not me dude Hmm interesting that's coming from the engineering room Oh, whoops. All right, so no one could probably hear that. So I just stopped randomly and everyone's like, why is she stopping? Sorry, someone left their foot. So rule rule number one is you silence your phones before you get on the show and we just heard all right, um You could get nearby so get humans nearby or maybe not well It's pretty far out. Well, whatever. But then send a robot over there and use like ion thrusters or something else What was using em drive? I grabbed my coffee and back away Oh my god be quiet Okay, but seriously use like an ion drive or some so let me ask you this. Okay answer is 42. Uh, actually Uh, actually maybe Um How well is your robot gonna work in 40 kelvin temperatures? So So those are the temperatures of the vehicle directly, right? Yes, so Can you there's a problem there's a problem with the mirror? Hey, hang on. Okay. There's a so hold on Let's let's go through this scenario. Let's go. Let's go through a servicing scenario for james webspace Because somehow because some oh i'm going to enjoy that immensely Because somehow we are smarter than the engineers that designed it Let's do some armchair engineering, which is always my favorite put on the reddit hat. Thank you reddit No, I you know No, that's not what reddit does reddit. I that's not fair to reddit. Okay. That's not the only thing they do No, I I enjoy reddit both of you. I actually enjoy reddit. I I get a lot of information there I actually use it. That is true. It is useful. It is a useful tool I like the people there. I get a lot of great information. I don't think we should give it a hard time Also, that's where space boos were born and you guys give me crap about that all the time. And so you're welcome All right, fair enough. So, okay so Let's just say there's a critical issue with james webspace telescope Can we not want so we've cooled it down. It's at operating temperatures. Yes cold It's obscenely cold. We can't approach it, right? Yeah Okay, we've got a critical problem Whole observatories down does not operate Don't you then at that point go well, okay Maybe we should warm it back up so we can go service it Do you have to keep it that cold? Like can't you close down the optics or like protect the mechanisms that are going to get damaged with heat And then approach it do the service that you need to do leave and then spend six months to spin it back up No, why? Because that system is designed in a way that The the fluid I don't recall if it's a fluid or not, but I believe them I believe it's ammonia that's going to be cooling it very similar to the system that you have on the space station I'm getting a hold up. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna make this full screen joseph just said james minnesota came out Uh, apparently I said don't you know, don't you? Yeah Sorry, I'm sorry. Okay. So you've got a cooling mechanism. It's a fluid. It's a whatever. It's solid hydrogen. I don't care Solid hydrogen Jesus Wasn't sure you guys would catch that one. Oh my god Think about hold up. Hold up. Think about how cold that would have to be Right. I mean you talking about insane temperatures. That would be insane I actually want to say that's been used before it has the x2 If the x2 rocket at mission space, which no, I think that there was an actual mission that did use solid hydrogen Throwing it all the way back to. Okay. Hang on. Hang on. So somebody research solid hydrogen to see if that's actually being used Because I'm gonna call shenanigans on that In the meantime, hang on. I want to know why I why you can't warm the system back up What is this? What what did they design in there that prevents you 100 percent? Guaranteed prevents you from allowing the system to warm back up And then if you're cool if your servicing mission needs to bring a new fluid with it and then inject More solid hydrogen into the system I got to use that twice if you so if it was if the system No, no, obviously solid hydrogen is a thing. Yes, it's just like you're not gonna use that Which by the way, I just confirmed was used on the wide field infrared survey explorer. You're welcome Um, so that system is not designed to be tapped That system it's designed to be as closed loop as possible so that it can last as long as possible on board of james web But why couldn't they have put a small tap in there because that is a point of failure for the system That's the thing the whole system's a point of failure. We have a god. I disagree with these decisions We have enough points of failure as it is. We don't need one more But you they don't need mcdonalds. We've got food at home. But when you when you Build when you build hold up. I I I I get what you're saying. What did we what did we find the other day? It was like 141 Single point failures a lot A frightening amount if there's a frightening amount of single points of failure Then why not make it so that you can at least try to fix them at least give yourself a chance Okay, and I get it's really far out and maybe we don't have the technology today to send the humans there right now But at least give yourself an opportunity to design something Okay, so loopy's got it, which is that the coolant is a consumable. It's there's boil off Sure It's no, I don't want to say it's being vented overboard in an amount I get it, but we can build a robot that brings you more of the liquid the problem is what is it liquid helium? It's helium or something. Okay, yeah The problem is well healing him's freaking cold like liquid helium is really cold We could use it as a yes, we have used it as as something to actually keep Infrared telescope cold because yeah, it's freakishly cold. Yeah good good heck. It's cold So golly gee willikers golly gee willikers. Oh heck in heck Oh perfect, joseph gruber just said it Yeah, it is immediately if you design it for servicing, it just increases risk complexity and cost. Okay, so okay, so there's no way to increase cost on that Oh challenge accepted data Let me tell you Now I I get what you're saying. I and I understand it increases complexity and cost, but you can do smaller things that allow you to like I have a hard time buying that you can't make it serviceable so you can just shut the system down And then figure it out from there and I realize not everything's going to be serviceable You don't need to have hot swappable components for everything But in order to service it at all you need to be able to shut it down. Otherwise, you're not wrong It's way the heck too cold. Yes, right? You just can't get near it Well, one thing that it is going to run out of coolant. That's a thing. We can't overcome that Although joseph, this is a really good one. Do you want a two billion dollar telescope or one billion dollar congress one billion? And it ends up being 10. Well, you know, that's that's what happens when the zero was silent All right, thank you data um Again complexity risk somebody in the chat room mentioned weight, which is all these things It's just like it's just difficult to do that I get that it's difficult But how much complexity and weight are we adding for an off switch? So you're asking so we could turn it off Okay, now we've got to have a system that will allow something to approach it, right? So because you've got a you now have A vehicle that has to come within close proximity of something that cost 10 billion dollars No, one. What was the original price again? One one one billion. So no it cost one billion dollars That was that was the order of magnitude on top. Um, but the design was one billion. So once Was I get it, but that's one thing. Okay. So I'm going to dollar thing Which you've got to remember too. We've got this the sunshades there as well Those those unbelievably thin layers, which I'm sure not going to appreciate thrusters hitting them Can can there be collapsed on orbit? No once they're open they're open So yeah, basically everything once everything Oh lord, do I hope everything deployed? But here's the thing here's the thing. So the sunshades You're not wrong. Like you don't want to you don't want to do bad thing So you can you can you all you need to be able to service it in the first place, right? And in order to do that you got to make it not cold We would love to have that right. We don't have that. Yeah, that's the bit that I have an issue with of like Why don't we just have an off switch from there from there everything else is figure outable Yeah Because if it's so bad If the telescope is so bad that it doesn't operate if we're in a critical condition where it doesn't operate Then guess what if you accidentally rip the the so it doesn't matter It's no no worse than the state than it was to begin with so if you can't even shut it off You have no opportunity at all to even try to fix it Yes Because it's so complex. I Just an off switch I just want an off switch turn it off. That's all i'm asking for Shut it down. Shut it all down. Shut it all down Right. Is this ghost is this ghost buster? Both the plugs. Um, so Have something approach a 10 billion dollar piece of equipment Yeah, you've got to have something that can handle doing that. Sure You've got to make sure that your 10 billion dollar piece of equipment can handle sure docking with something like that Not necessarily. I'll dug on it. It's too cold on the other side to do that Jared what here and then all right jared. All right. Let me let me try this from a different angle Let me try it from the different maybe i'm not understanding. Yeah, okay. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go Here we go. We've launched james webspace telescope. Yes, it's unfurled. Yes The computer just will not start up. We cannot get rf to the vehicle It we cannot get downlink from james webspace telescope. It will not work Now what? Well, there's no off switch. I can't approach the vehicle to even try to fix it If if I had an opportunity this is this is it. Did you did you try turning it off and turning it back on again? I guarantee you they will try that data. I guarantee you they will try that But okay, so now we've got it That's one of the first things they're gonna do after and pick any scenario pick any scenario, right? If there's a critical failure on the system There's any sort of like something jostled loose on the way up something didn't happen like it was supposed to We have no we have no opportunity to fix it. None. We can't even We have limited our ability to even imagine opportunities. Actually, that's not entirely true We've limited our ability to imagine opportunities once the vehicle is at cryogenic temperatures And that's because we've because of the cryogenic temperatures that we've had to run it out Right. I get I get that. It's crazy. I get that. I get the other get the awesome ass I just want an off switch, man. I want to circumvent physics as badly as anyone else does But let me tell you just nature nature cannot be fooled just an off switch Once you have the off switch at least you can approach it. That's my entire point you could approach it Then you've got to refuel it Right, you know that you've got to load the cryo back on at least you have an opportunity for success We have prevented that opportunity for success by not allowing by not giving the system an off So we are not going to I'll agree with that. Okay. Okay. So we have basically in the comments I want to know who you agree with. Do you agree with me? Jared and all of the All of the engineers who built the 10 billion dollars telescope, or do you agree with my armchair engineering? I mean no insight into the vehicle whatsoever By the way, you should not be agreeing with me I think it's okay. So it does I will say it it does suck and it is absolutely Unbelievable that there is no option to service the james web space telescope But at the same time you have to look at it from an engineering perspective And you have to look at it from the physics perspective and both of those say Hell no, no, no, no. So I think physics doesn't say hell no It's the engineering that says hell no the physics says hell no because you can't shut it off That's my gripe. That's my only real gripe I'm not saying that you need to have a bunch of serviceable ports or anything else what I'm saying is We can be Clever look look at Hubble Yes, it didn't it which was designed to be serviceable sure, but it wasn't designed to have a monocle added to it No, right, but they made it happen. But they made it happen. They figured it out, right? So with james web space telescope, it's not serviceable. I get that not designed to be serviceable So but we can't even try to add a monocle not that we would add a monocle It'd be an octical way The monocle cost probably another 20 billion. No, but but Let's ignore that for a moment. We don't even have the ability to do it. We can't even approach it because we can't turn it off We we have handcuffed ourselves in that regard. So I really truly do hope that everything goes as planned. Yes, but I I just I don't know. I just I at least in the systems that I design. I at least always have some way Some way to do something and maybe it's not great Maybe it's not awesome But usually there's some sort of something that like you done it, right? You're not going to just make it and be like well Hope this works because we can never get back to it again Yeah, would you ever design a part like that? Hey, no, right joseph gruber brings up a good point Which is what does turn it off even mean? What does it mean? There's a giant breaker switch that you turn Right sparks flying you got to redo it Actually, that's a very valid question and I think ultimately what it means is you can approach it with a spacecraft. Okay, so Now there might be potential damage to oh, oh done a brilliant. Here you go. Here you go There's a perfect example of like having to do Just clever things Humans sure sure sure sure doesn't need to be humans. They had options though They they didn't You could not get a robot up there to do that Time No, the robotics of that time of the 70s of the early 70s Skylab is flying. It could not have done that. Absolutely. I disagree to my absolute core That it could not have done that it needed to be i'm not saying robotics jared I'm saying have the option. You're also assuming that humans can't get there with some sort of future transport tech So let's go. Okay. Okay. Hang on. Hang on. What's the service? What's the service life as james web? Five years five years five years. Oh my god I'll be over here five years Which will be One of the longest operating cryogenic systems in space. Oh my god. Have its temperature range. Okay Seriously, they will probably be able at five years. You're right. It doesn't make any sense They will probably be able to extend that out and then also you can do what's called warm operations So, okay. Okay. Okay. Hang on. Hang on joseph Yeah, a group is saying it's the five years is congressional base. So can we we could theoretically Make this thing go longer, right? Yes, we can pull. Okay, cool. Okay, so certainly will make sure okay cool So there we're at because you're number 10 I want to throw I want to throw this just so that our viewers understand this too, which is that that once it's in the Shade it's going to stay cold. It's going to be really cold if it's assuming the shades work and everything So right when it shake you mean like eclipse Yeah, it's in it's it no sunlight is reaching sure. Oh, it has its own sun shades. That's right Yes, and it's not facing the earth either. So you're not even getting radiative heating from the earth as well That's why it was chosen to go to hell too. Sure. Yeah, it's cold and it's gonna be cold there It's gonna stay cold there. You know what so that means that even if you lose your cryocooler at some point Which we will hopefully after five years or longer It will still be relatively cold So we could still get it down to probably the temperature surface temperature of the moon at night I guess. Okay. So let's let's run another scenario by you But also here's I I'm so scared and this is not helping me hang on. Hang on. I bet that these are similar debates Although with a lot less laughing A lot less fun similar debates that the engineers actually had when designing the system. Yes, I I would be Very surprised if there wasn't an engineer Pushing for serviceability on the system and other engineers saying no, this doesn't make any sense physics like I feel like this conversation happened 30 years ago. Yeah, probably right. Okay, so let's go into this scenario then The system worked exactly as expected. Yes, you can breathe Centered It's February 1st and everything's working everything's working brilliantly and in fact the system worked for five years And it's six years Ooh computers having like weird radiation hits like we need to replace parts of the computer Now if we have the ability to just turn off the cryo coolers, we could totally do that But we didn't build that ability in We just need the ability because we figured out how to get there using robots and ai because five years from now That's fine. In fact, we have we can send it up on neutron Right, it'll send the whole thing Right. Neutron could just go grab it. Think of all. Yeah, just Right, right. No, but so so And then there's Bad mic bad mic presence, but right so neutron sends up a cool little thing. It's just a little little android thing and Got really cool ai on board doesn't he? There you go. Thank you. Yeah It's got ai on board It can go up there It can take off the side panels and can do all of the work that it needs to do The only problem is it can approach a The spacecraft that's at crazy crazy cold temperatures, which is the technical term for how cold crazy crazy cold temperatures so Now you don't get any more serviceable life out of the system because they simply didn't allow This cryogenic system to be able to be shut off and that and so do joseph's point Asking what i'm asking for what does off mean off means the ability for a spacecraft to approach it Is this the James web at this point is non operational. We cannot get it back unless the spacecraft approaches it We need the ability to turn to save the system in a way Where it's not crazy cold and a spacecraft can approach it and do whatever work it needs to do And you know what because at that point if the spacecraft damages james web We're no worse off than we were before now see at that point If we had gotten the full full mission duration out of james web everything that we wanted out of james web I don't see any reason why we couldn't risk going and doing a service on it That was that how will they do a service on it because You can't do physics with when the system is not designed to be serviceable and it's crazy cold So I can't say there were instruments on Hubble that were designed to not be serviceable But they figured out how to do it and go in and replace them and make those systems work We could do that was basically my entire point this whole time is that we are creative And that would come up with ways to service these things But after five years, what's the warranty expires you could play with it all you want No, no, it doesn't have to be after five years. What's the warranty expired? It doesn't have to be after five years. My point is it's whenever james web is no longer operational Yes, maybe that's five years. Maybe that's one year Yeah, maybe we could probably I don't know get some commercial partner to go out there and fix it Joseph Joseph's final comment is because nasa and then he actually said in the chat mic drop And I don't know why that did not render on screen But he dropped the mic and I Yeah, I see somebody in the chat room says spin it around into the sunlight so it will warm up enough to approach That's a great idea. That's also I see no issues with that. That's also going to whatsoever fry Instrument I'm sure those instruments that sit at 40 kelvin are going to be are going to be totally fine at like 400 So, uh, you do a barbecue roll so that it There you go Appreciate it. Hey engineers solve problems. Yeah, true. Ryan. You haven't said anything in all of this So big giant head. What's your opinion? Should we should it should they have made it serviceable? I'm just sitting back and guess things. Whatever is happening here Yeah, mommy and daddy. No, what's your opinion like what you have mommy and daddy are fighting So what do you what do you think should they and you are the deciding vote your opinion? You are deciding vote. Do you go with the engineers or do you go to the do you go at the real engineers of the armchair engineer? Which one All right, look, look, I openly admit that I have no idea what I'm talking about here Like I don't know I don't I don't have access to specs. I don't know what that would have taken I don't know the weight requirements. I don't know the structural loads that would have taken Maybe they did look at this and they were like how we just can't do this I have no idea from what I understand. Yes, it's also entirely possible It's also entirely possible that this was a decision that was made based on requirements that are 30 years old That's true too. Yes Okay, so i'm sorry ryan your thoughts My thoughts are that obviously you have to go with the real engineers because They're the people who design the spacecraft Um servicing it would be great, but physics says no Oh, hey, actually, this is a good question from brad Okay, i'm gonna send this to actually the coast of jared sure dumb question not a dumb question If you're gonna start building a new james webb space telescope, this is the jared jared head space telescope nice jhst Which is based off of the james webb technology. Does it have a mohawk on its uh, sunshade? Well, it in morse code m. Yes I'm sorry I'm sorry jerry. That was low. Hey go to uh go to a uh, there's not enough There's not enough. There's not enough. Go go to james camera real quick. Go to james camera real quick Not my camera Thank you Only good things are happening right now So the jared head space telescope Is is that going to be if we build the jared head space telescope with james webb space telescope technology? Using technology from today. Yes, theoretically be cheaper because as we cover this is bleeding edge tech, right? so So the jared head space telescope is the is the next It's super hyper. It's our it's our flagship. It's our next flagship space telescope. It's well. It's not because it's it's That's actually already underway the jared head space telescope not the jared head space telescope But the next flagship is they're already studying it. So let's not say the next flagship Let's just say we're gonna make a second james web. Yeah, we're gonna make another james web Could we do it much much cheaper now? Um, I don't know if it would be cheaper Just because of the the the tech so the technological development was expensive Um, it really was very expensive cheaper. Um, so it so yeah, I would be cheaper because we've already figured it out I would hope it's cheaper. Um, but at the same time, uh, perseverance the marjorama perseverance was Made out of mostly spares Of curiosity. Yeah, and it wasn't cheaper It was really because of the changes in the instrumentation that were on board Oh, okay So so what would happen? They probably wouldn't want no the jared head space telescope would not be a carbon copy reflight of james web They would probably try to honestly if I were to fly another james web I would figure out how to make it even colder so that it can look even further back So what you're saying jared You're saying you make it space telescope is less serviceable than the non serviceable james web space telescope No, we'll build serviceability into this one at the extra cost We'll eat that cost to make it happen. I just feel like it will cost a james web to make it serviceable All right, so there was a comment from vax hadrew Can I launch it on c-dragon mic drop and for the reason he's dropping that mic is uh, there's a fantastic Epic so that we have was it tomorrow at that point or was it space we cast? Oh, I don't know you have to ask that. Uh, well, I think he was on both. I'm not sure if he would remember either Um talking and he just did like an hour long riff on c-dragon. I think this space we casted at that time Tomorrow Okay, cool. Uh, and then there was another really great comment Uh, oh no Yeah, here we go. See this is what i'm talking about Okay, actually, this is I think a really good Concept of our veil says I really feel like we should build two of everything we do voyager style That's not actually terrible idea. It would be good But then like you're building two flagship missions at the same time We tried that with the mariner mark 2 spacecraft in the 80s and congress didn't like that sure We also tried that with um, how was the mission? Voyager Yes, yeah, that worked pretty well for us. It did we did it with stereo as well to study the sun worked Except I hope that we did that with grail to study the gravitational field of the moon was one holey and the other one grail What's up? No, bad joke. No, uh, no, did I get a wamp? We need sound effects. So yeah, I should rebuild That's a slippery slope. Oh, that's a slippery slope Someone has brought up one of my favorite uh ways to do things Sorry dutch universe. Let's hope this doesn't turn into the james. Whoopsies Ah, yeah, let's not that's a good one. Let's not let's not that wouldn't be very good. So Um, yeah, yeah good times. Yeah, the cost of A relicento says the cost of production isn't even 10 and I completely agree with that All of your cost is in engineering So okay, yeah making making multiple copies of hardware is not really a bad thing Yeah, yeah, I just want to point out not only yes, but congress not only as perseverance Made from spares from curiosity, but they also have another one that's in the marge yard. Yes And probably spares from that too. Yeah, definitely I was just flailing on screen behind that. No, it's good. I thought that was good. Um, yeah, and I mean again james web You know, this is not just something that nobody's done in the 90s This is not just something that nobody's done in the aughts or the 2010s. This was a fun debate, Jared Something that nobody's done. I enjoyed myself. Yeah, this was great. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Yeah, I hope everybody learned something I want to know especially you jamey I've hit the big giant head Earthquake Not a funny joke here Wow, you literally dropped ryan's cords. I feel like this is a good good point to end the show. Yeah Um, this plays really well on the podcast, by the way. Yeah, I know For those listening and not able to see we've lost the big giant head Which they couldn't see to begin with exactly. Yes Also, you can now you can better see the reflection of the table. Yeah, let's get a uh, what? No, did you take this opportunity? Yeah, that's cute. The best part is hang up. Go to his camera real quick Yes, is it that's good. Also, it's so low cost clearly you would just throw it away and buy a new one Clearly you can turn it off and turn it back on which if james webb was so low cost you could throw it away I don't think I would care if it were serviceable Ouch. Thanks. That one hurts. Oh johnny. That one hurts in multiple places. All right. I think that's our show You know, I think we're gonna continue this. Oh first off I actually would like to know what you think about the service ability of james webb space telescope once again in the comments You guys know You know the deal. This is a youtube channel. Yes, we have to feed the algorithm Or it gets angry at us feeding the algorithm do two things to feed the algorithm first Please hit the little like button a little up arrow up thumb on youtube That helps us a great deal. 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