 Yeah This conference will now be recorded. I'll make sure we don't miss any of your words, Lisa Now can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Shall I repeat my name and address? All right, Lisa Grunewald taken from the top Lisa Grunewald 427 golf course road In my 30-year career. I have worked with thousands of colleagues customers business partners friends and family During these years. I've had many opportunities to provide job performance feedback And I know how words matter and I know how words can hurt and in that moment of truth When the message is so crucial Delivery can fail and the message can be obscured and So I say this with all due humility to the City Council tonight in a time of coarsening public discourse Ensuring that our publicly delivered feedback remains timely direct actionable and above all else kind is paramount Recently feedback was given to Senator Chitenden in which he was called waffling unfit and an embarrassment. I Will simply say for myself That if I receive public feedback like that in a new job, I would be hurt I would feel invalidated and I would feel intimidated here As President Obama once said we have to walk and chew gum at the same time South Burlington grapples with a global climate change and with a housing crisis These raiding issues and many more require solutions And kindness at the same time We should strive for an environment Where all participants feel safe and welcomed in complex public spaces Standing here today. I am shaking. I feel vulnerable Yet I'm here because I have no right to tell my kids to stand up if I'm going to sit idly by South Burlington is my home. I Feel indebted to this community and I am humbled to be a resident And I would be remiss if I didn't tell each of you how much I appreciate the time and the diligence and the effort You put into your roles here on the city council and at the state senator Chittenden So tonight, I'm simply asking that here in South Burlington and across Vermont We lead with kindness in our public discourse towards each other We show America the best of our brave little state in both words and deeds. I Am humbled to speak in front of you today. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your consideration Thank you. Thank you Are there any other members of the public who would like to speak is anyone online? Okay, thank you. We will move on to announcements and the city manager's report So Tim any announcements just a quick one. So my family and I went to Washington DC two weeks ago during the school vacation I drove to Boston picked up my other son and flew to DC and we really did DC Well, we hit all the memorials the Lincoln Memorial the Jefferson Memorial We saw the King Memorial from the paddle boat on the title basin We saw the World War II Memorial the Vietnam Memorial went to the Hirshhorn Museum We saw the Laurie Anderson exhibit incredible absolutely incredible We went to the Museum of American History Museum of Natural History went to the Smithsonian Castle I was born in DC never got to go in the castle. My parents wouldn't take me I don't know why we got to finally go in what a magnificent building great story Also got two of my family to go to Arlington Cemetery went to JFK's grave And also Robert Lee's house and the Tomb of the Unknowns So and also the Capitol and we got to see the edge of the White House, but you can't see much at least not from the from the South Side, so it was a Particularly interesting experience being in front of the Capitol, you know subsequent to what happened the year ago January 6 and I was grateful for the ability to be there and have everybody be peaceful and Enjoying a nice sunny beautiful day in Washington, DC, but what struck me When I go to Washington DC is the immense weight of the civil war as a predicate for everything that has come after in this country And when I stand in the Lincoln Memorial and I read two things and they're they're inscribed in stone in there for a reason and one is Lincoln Skettysburg address, which I know we all know the beginning of that, right? and the other is a second inauguration a speech and it just strikes me so heavily that that That memorial and then the King Memorial not too far away and the whole structure of our society and our government Really has predicated what happened in Washington, DC in the late 1860s mid and late 1860s including the civil war So I just can't impress upon you how how important that experience was So I just wanted to relate that to everybody and if you do go to DC see me later I'll tell you where to stay some really great places to stay in Virginia on the Metro Eight-minute walk there and the Metro was very convenient and very fast. So great. How long were you there? Because you did all four days four days. We walked 24 miles So It was good Great. Thank you. Matt. No announcements. I didn't go anywhere nearly as interesting Okay, Megan. Yeah I Didn't prepare written remarks, but I will make remarks given the comments there during the public comment period I'm wearing the stripes tonight for a reason and they stand for the fields on which American Patriots shed their blood Megan. Yes, I interrupt. Yeah, I really would prefer not having a rebuttal I'm not rebutting. I'm just talking for myself. I'm not rebutting anybody I just want to say this if I if I might that My family roots go back to pre-revolution. I Had family fighting on both sides of the revolution and I know how hard fought this democracy was won And it does not get won necessarily through kindness there is a moment for outrage and defending one's rights is Something that our country is based on I Invite everyone to listen to the tape of the House Transportation Committee on Thursday Megan, I don't want to go there very well But I invite you all to listen to hear how I was offended quite profoundly When people give their word I expect them to hold their word when I give make it I'm very glad you did. Thank you her tail your remarks. So my week last week Was not only spent being a professor, which is my day job it was spent defending the rights of The residents of Chamberlain neighborhood and of the city. I'll leave it there. Thank you Tom, so there's a lot of tension in the air right now I just want to say that I put on my Facebook page just an articulation Regarding the topic that we're circling so if anybody would like to hear my point of view that it's there And I do have an apology I would like to apologize to all of my neighbors for not mowing in the month of May so that the pollinators and the bees will Have more time to to recoup and otherwise But I promise to mow my lawn on June 1st and regarding the other topic happy to elaborate later on happy to answer Any questions I stand by every action I took and I'm I'm embarrassed of nothing Thank you I attended a monthly The city and school leadership meet and we had a great meeting Last Friday and we share kind of what's going on on both sides of the Street at least that's what we used to say. I guess we're no they're on the other side of the street now and so Just to highlight and to share with the council what we talked about I Mean the big news their property transfer the address has changed. So the school hall or Administrative offices is 577 because we divided the building They have made an appointment to the charter committee two people Carter Higgins and dr. Boyer That during the superintendent search Jesse has applied and I think we all encouraged her to do that They were pleased that she did to me. She did and Jesse. I thought very Thoughtfully let them know that if they they're looking for a very broad Group of people that represent all different groups in the city so She offered to Not be considered if they had someone else that represented a Constituency that was important and that she would support the process in any way that she could we talked about the climate action plan and I'm hoping that will continue that dialogue and really integrate The knowledge and the activities that the schools are doing and the school administration is doing Within the climate action plan Pathways and actions that are coming up and they are interested in doing that. We talked a little bit about the impact fees The school would like to or is making the case to ask the council to pass an impact fee on new homes that would focus would be directed to supporting Schools and the potential need to build new schools They're having a little trouble getting organized for the meeting to meet with the one person in the state who is knowledgeable and can really help them, but it's Just in a an initial review Jonathan what's his last name? Slatsen did say that he was pretty certain that South Burlington would qualify for Having a impact fee We talked about how the city is trying to align the comp plan the funding for from ARPA and a community survey to determine needs and we're trying to work together with the demographer and the school to potentially put together one survey that can address the questions that the city needs to understand around the integration of the comp plan and the ARPA funds and What the school needs as well and they're very amenable to that. We just haven't quite gotten there yet, but that's still on the list of things to do and they really want to I Think we see that integration in a survey of helping Develop the city growth curve in the broadest sense. So we really both have an understanding of how that might affect each other David brought up some concerns around act 250 and its impact on school enrollment and Apparently When you have an act 250 application, there's a questionnaire that they send to the superintendent and they give I think the number of homes being built and Anticipated, you know bedrooms and how many kids their children Educatable children will be moving into the development and then the school is supposed to respond with We have room. We have that capacity. It's a capacity question and David was pretty frank and said we really don't have the capacity So I mean I asked he asked us to send them in at some point, but he hasn't yet He hasn't responded and we didn't know what the impact of that is So I think in a future steering committee meeting We will be talking about that because there certainly is a balance as we go forward and David kind of said, you know be good to know For though the housing that's developed that doesn't require an act 250 to have the congregate numbers So we really can plan they can plan in terms of This is where we really break Meet the breaking point and we need to put more trailers in potentially or that kind of situation Planning for that growth in the city, you know potentially thinking about other ways to handle that So it's just it's a Want to get another complex question as we go through how we develop and where we develop and What the schools need and how we pay for that? so Paul Connor is working on that and Well when we have a joint meeting we can discuss that and I suggested that maybe the council When we get some of that information have a an agenda item, so we discuss it from the city perspective and The school do the same and then when we get to a steering committee meeting We all will have thought about it and can share those Responses and potentially have a plan or not and then Lastly David was Very concerned about the pupil waiting proposal in the legislation and Tommy. I'm sure know all about that because you're on education And he said if it goes into effect They're estimating that the impact on South Burlington is between 400 and 600 thousand dollars, which is a lot of money And it's for the whole state or for our district that's for our district So and it isn't finalized yet and it's got So many moving pieces that it's hard to really know what the impact is and what to do. He's just concerned As you can imagine for the next superintendent to handle that But but I think it just is It's another example of sort of the I think the Dilemma that our city is in because we're the I think David said we're the only community in the entire state that has The student enrollment going up everyone else is going down so when changes are made potentially to Address maybe some of those issues and the equity around that the impact on South Burlington is just incredible and then of course we're also in this Crosshairs of well, this is the place people want to build homes and that dilemma is you know We bring more people in but we don't have schools big enough Or we then build more schools and the taxes go way up and you know, we don't become perhaps as desirable a place as We have been in the past so it's really a concern for our community and unfortunately We probably don't get a whole lot of empathy in the legislature But it's it's real for this community and I think just lays another I don't know level of complexity in our discussions as we go forward So it was a really good meeting and I think we've you know set some Goals in terms of communicating and working together. Hopefully So that's about all I did I think Yes, I'm sorry, but I'm sure the energy committee and your team is already looking at it But it's very likely that the amount of money available for municipal energy resilience grants going to increase to $500,000 up from 350,000 so it's something that I would hope the energy committee in the climate Change committee look at ways that we can invest in municipal buildings to reduce energy consumption because there's going to be more money But also means fewer cities and towns are going to access that money. It's no it's if everyone got the max It would be 70 towns Okay, but you don't have to take the max but something to consider Expanding the scope of where we want to save energy in our municipal buildings. Well, that's great I have a list of other questions to ask you I won't do it now But I was talking with the chair of the task force and there's some information that I think you might Share will be able to direct us so that would inform them of what what money is available And I think I'll be following up with you as well. So thank you Yes, I just add one other item for an announcement. Sorry. So we did have a pension advisory committee meeting last week I forgot to mention that And Pat Blizzard was here from SEI And of course, I mean everybody's looking at the market and it's lost some value over the last few weeks And then the biggest question marks are the enduring Infections in China with COVID-19 and the lockdowns and the suspension of people being able to work in factories And so supply chain disruptions in China and the effect on the rest of the world and then also the war in Ukraine so Anyway, the one question that Pat answered was that we believe and it's kind of hard to tease this data out of all of the stocks that they have in our portfolio, but He was pretty certain that less than point two percent had any direct relation to Russian companies So, I mean, I think that's pretty small and it's kind of hard to totally divest if they're booked They are inside other companies, you know, but I think that's a pretty good number for now. And so I don't think there's much we can do about that. So but I I think that that's a positive thing that it's very small So that's all I want to report. Thanks. Thank you Jesse manages Thanks, I have a number of updates for you all tonight and for the community Kind of along those lines, uh, COVID is Chittenden County is now rated as high in COVID transmission It is certainly hitting our staff and our families So do just request that people continue to wear masks in our building and Stay home if you are sick For the council just a reminder. I've mentioned this a couple of times We are transitioning to office 365 and for you all that will mean multifactor authentication on your emails So Mike Mott our IT director will be here Between 6 and 6 30 before our next council meeting to help move you over to that And if that if that time doesn't work for you, you can set up a one-on-one time with him later on Or he can probably direct you how to do it remotely Um Last meeting we talked about our fy 23 policy priorities and strategies plan, which is a great conversation As uh, the chair referenced we are looking at how to integrate These processes with the kickoff to the comp plan update as well So we would like to include the planning commission in about half that day To do that kickoff or the comp plan So I am going to send around a doodle poll with so many people participating to try and find a day that the most people can Participate it's just a heads up that that is coming to you Um, we are in the final stages of adopting The red rocks management plan. Um, as you know Starting in 2019 there was a staff appointed city natural area management plan task force With representatives from several of our committees and staff from recreation parks and public works Around best practices for managing the open space that we own as a community So ashley and that team have done a great job Putting that together Much of the time through covet through virtual meetings was presented to the nrcc and the recon parks committee in march they Supported it their recommendations were integrated and we will administratively launch that soon Um, it's a huge step forward for us and we look forward to doing those management plans for our other public spaces as well Along those lines. I did want to share that ashley parker Her last day with the city will be friday. Um, she is not going to the city of burlington. So we are having some competition There we've we've done a job though a different kind of job So she's going to be their director of capital projects. So she's going to be running a couple projects city-wide for them But as you know, she's done an amazing job staffing both the nrcc and and bike and ped committee And administering the pennies for paths and pennies for open spaces So we will be working hard to fill her shoes and she will be greatly missed And we will try and support her in her new role in burlington as well Um, we are Public works planning and zoning and the champlain water district are starting to explore Water tower expansion. We know from our 2017 assessment that that was a piece of infrastructure that we are going to need to expand over time Um, it will require a community bond vote We will be coming to you with many more details in the future But in order to get those details finalized specifically cost and timing We are talking with some property owners about location that would allow us to build redundancy in our system As well as serve our our high Our high service area, which is literally our physically high surface area that I have learned So we are exploring a second tank at dorset street. We are also exploring a tank on the outclair property So I just wanted to put that out there in the Community if you have any questions about that feel free to reach out to me or tom Um, unfortunately, we did not get the v-trans highway grant That you all approved a couple of our application for a couple of meetings ago Later in your agenda, you'll see we are looking at some ideas about how to use some one time money to Expand that paving program for this year Of course, you would have to approve that but want to let you know that we did not get that grant Usually we get them on every other year cycle. It's pretty consistent. Did we get it last year? We did get it last year and we'll keep applying it a year remind me what this was for again. So this was for Um, so right now in the paving program for fy 23 is dorset street that that connection between garden and aspen But that's taking up the entire budget line we have for paving. So it was to go beyond into the neighborhoods Um, we have posted our uh recruitment call for folks who are interested in serving on boards and committees in this city For the terms that are expiring. So if folks are interested, please Visit our website Um, the app the information is there and the application is there and certainly counselors feel free to distribute that widely Applications are due may 26 and council will be interviewing candidates on June 6 and June 20th Um, just a friendly reminder that saturday is green up day Vermont wide and here in south brilington can pick up bags here at the welcome center The drop off this year will be at the public works garage on landfield road off patch and street You can drop off your bags there by one o'clock on saturday um, and then I just wanted to Folks probably know about this, but we had a really, um Fascinating day here on saturday. We had 53 to five year olds and their parents In doing the first session of tykes baseball at central school fields That was a really beautiful day for that And great to see so many kids out and then here at the senior center, we had our, um First spring brunch, uh for our seniors that was served by the south brilington high school girls across Team so it was a really lovely kind of intergenerational sharing And then there are a lot of really fun things going on at Brack in the libraries and I encourage folks to take a look at their Facebook pages and websites Thank you A lot of good and Some sad But anyway, okay Um, moving on to the consent agenda, you will notice that we Move the veterans park report that was in response to derrick porrier I think and several other people about the park. Um, and we felt we could move it here Because we weren't going to Have any action, but we can, um include that on the next, um Council meeting which is the 16th, correct? Yes, tom so on that I just want to recognize that thank you for this report to holly reese This is very helpful I received emails and I forward them onto the city manager from Concerned citizens about the condition of veterans park and they are sending me photos and they want to definitely talk to the council And I think they want to come back on the 16th, but this report also answered a lot of their questions So for those that put the time into it, thank you for that and that's very helpful to the little league using veterans park Well, we'll have it on the agenda so that we can discuss it and have a chance to ask holly questions. So I would encourage them even if all of their questions were answered to To come you might learn something new And that would be good All right, so I would entertain a motion on the consent agenda We have three items disbursements minutes from One to three meetings and then this veterans park report I move to approve the consent agenda second Okay, any discussion All in favor signify by saying aye Aye So that passes and we move down to Well, we've all been waiting for for a lifetime. This is the first Time we will get an update from the cemetery sections And then some yeah, this goes into the next uh lifetime Yeah, we want to see this pitch I know God the price is right even with the increases Yeah, well, thank you very much. This was um a very good report. Thank you good pictures and Yeah, they will make a thousand words, you know a lot of old tube stones Donna, do you want me to share? give me Go for it and I will pull up this document You do but look at this. I can do it right here Uh-huh Good So just tell me when you Okay, I'll set take it away Good evening. Uh, my name's Peter Taylor and I'm the only one who's got a title up there Notice that Oh are the mics on press the little press buttons No bright green Yeah, it has to be bright green. There we go better. Yes I'm Maureen O'Brien. I'm the secretary of the uh sextons committee And don't againville chair and your city clerk Is uh chris train on the uh train on the uh online Oh now that i'm sharing i've lost my ability to see people Anyways chris has a very bad cough and he was going to help us out with this but he's going to if he's on he's going to listen only so, okay Start off uh Some photographs of the cemeteries in south merlington You can see a gentleman who's doing some ground sounding to identify where there is open land in each of the cemeteries We'll talk a little bit more about that later You the next two on the left and center that was a cleanup day we did If you go far right center and then Maybe raise it up just a little bit. All right. Can you do that screen? Can you get the full screen up there? Probably anyone know how to do that quickly Oh, don't worry about it Um, is that if you do the big x on the right is that top right left the pdf Uh, okay, I think that's as good as I can do for you guys. All right, you could do a plus plus plus. Oh, yeah, but no that makes right Yeah, you can't expand the window. We're okay um Center right you'll see a before and after shot of cleanup Big difference there and we'll talk more about that the bottom Uh left and center that's the um I think it's the southeast corner of the cemetery shelvin road cemetery Near the car lot and again a before and after It still needs work as we'll talk about later. We'll go the next Yeah, real quick. Can you press control l control l goes full screen with adobe? There you go a little bit more. Thank you. We can go the next slide um, each of us are going to present A little bit on different slides So we'll try to go through quickly and then answer any questions you have the agenda tonight We're going to review sectons versus cemetery commission and rolls report on that 2019 list of to dos and an update Suggest some new fees to you headstone cleaning and repair until july 9th. We'll talk about Talk to you a little bit about eldridge cemetery fencing and headstone cleaning Some thoughts about shelvin road cemetery and uh some items for future consideration uh Sections versus cemetery commission Uh, the city council is the cemetery commission in south berlington based on state statute You can appoint another group to serve that role and that's that's up to the council The sextants are there's a definition up there people in charge with maintenance and governing And we'll talk to you a little bit about what we've been doing tom was on this committee before so he's well familiar with it And uh, again a list of the members pardon. I like the sacred objects Yeah, I do Get that I'm sorry. I don't hear very well. Can you take your mask? All right. I don't know We forget we forget that cemeteries are sacred That's all Thank you Next slide, please So what we're working on here is trying to look at where we kind of were in 2019 This pre-pandemic it was tongue and myself and peter were appointed to be the sextants and We came in with no knowledge of of anything about being a sextant We're we're hitting the ground running with no knowledge And so we kind of looked at everything that we had in front of us We kind of said these are the things we think we need to really work on There is no accurate listing of all our resting All of our people who are in the cemeteries We have a hodgepodge of stuff that came from the highway department who Sonny Odette was one of the sextants And Karen was the person who was handling it. They understood their system. We don't get it So we're trying to get a nice map where we can say these are the lots and this person's resting here here and here And that and that's a lot of work. And so that is one of our main objectives that we still have to come up A lot of the gravestones need repair they need cleaning and those are still there We've had conversations back in 2019 about the fencing and statue says that there shall be a fence surrounding a cemetery Shelbourne Road is almost there. They don't have any in the front And Elgeridge is close to it. It's missing one side now that the airport took down And a little side part that got hit in a car fence a car accident Um We're going to look at lot pricing. We we're kind of looked at point back then or didn't know if our prices were comparable with other municipalities Um, and then we're always looking at, you know, how do you make it? A nice peaceful resting place. So we're looking at benches nice reflection areas, you know Clearing of the brush beautification of it And just things we can do to try and make it look nicer and kept for kept taking care of I guess Um, so next slide So one thing we did is we saw one of the first screens is a sonar of the cemeteries. Um, it was kind of to verify the, um Open area Because we didn't trust the the information we were getting We did hired a gentleman to come and he did a walk through the cemetery very Sonar and gave us a nice little report for each of the cemeteries um, and actually found out that The possible grave site for the 12 soldiers that died During 2018-12 Is not far from where the cemetery with the monument we have is it's just a little up to their I guess what's that direction I just a little bit, um, this is on the shulburn road. No, this is no this is eldritch. Oh, okay So we were able to find at least that you know, we there was a a mass burial right next to where this thing is Then there's another area that He made a comment of It looks like a vault in which he would do mass burials and we have never been able to figure out when burlington had this cemetery And they buried you know indigent people Um, there's no mark or there's no anything that they'd labeled that john smith Or whatever the name may be So, um, it's kind of I think my assumption We haven't really talked much about that is where the cemetery the town burials kind of took place in that one area in that vault Um, don't I could I know just a quick second just so people know Um, eldritch property was deeded to the city of south burlington september 19 1816 and the shulburn road property was deeded to the city of I'm sorry the city of burlington in 1816 and then the shulburn road was Deeded may 3rd 1831. So they're pretty old cemeteries They've been around for quite a while and they were transferred to south burlington when we became independent Who deeded them pardon who deeded them property owners property? They purchased them from individual property owners that owned land I see and made cemeteries in those locations where the bodies relocated to them from the war of 1812 No in 16 is post 1812 the the bodies from the war of 1812 weren't discovered until later But they moved there and For all I know or we know there could have been some grave sites on those lands when they were actually deeded to the city But that's when the city burlington took each of them over So whether they were I don't know if they were cemeteries before them or not. It could have been private lots. So yeah Can I ask a clarifying question? Yeah, so we we don't have a good listing of identified souls Do we have a better understanding of how many souls? We have what I got from the high from the highway department is a booklet and it says, you know John smith just keeps that john smith has lot A3 but then there's no map that says where a3 is on a map So and then through the years Be the way the cemeteries been run Um If I bought a lot and then 20 50 years down the line I passed away and someone does a burial in that lot I'm not sure how much the highway department knew Someone was being placed in that lot. Oh boy The these are our best guesses donna researched and found some maps for each cemetery But it's not dotted out. This is exactly where these bodies are buried. There are some corner markers that we can work off of Sometimes but I'm sure that this was a battlefield. So when no, I mean, what about the cannons at battery park? They were waiting to depart to be sent off and Right and they caught smallpox. Yeah during the war of 1812 There was an encampment of soldiers on the brow old farm road and there was an outbreak of smallpox and presumably Some close neighbor which certainly eldridge is close to old farm road They were buried there, but there's no proof of that other than we know that there's Some type of mass burial there presumably The soldiers from the war of 1812 right and this sonar didn't pick up it doesn't mean there's nothing left I can There's there's new technology out there called lidar Which is more expensive than the the sonar We've just started, you know, we just talked about it's probably Basically, all the sonar tells us is whether the ground has been disturbed or not. Yeah So if if they can see it's solid and it hasn't been disturbed The assumption is there's no graves in that area and that's what we found out So we have those areas Go ahead time. Sorry Thank you and then So what we're going to do is um in conjunction with the vermont vermont old cemetery association We're actually going to do our first headstone cleaning and straightening. They're going to come and show us how to do it And so we're excited about that and um we'll be discussing more about that one later Um shepherd row cemetery fence and swale cleaning. Um last fall we had a Our first round of it. Um, it was very eye-opening. I think in a lot of ways Um shepherd road of the two cemeteries knees the most maintenance It's the one that we've kind of let go more than others There's more than eldridge. I think it's mostly because it's behind that swale and you really can't see And if we open up it's it's got a bunch of brush growing up all along the sides that come in, you know I don't have any feet To clear that all up and make it nice good grass again And then therefore be able to do had to do a bureau's there if we decide to do that um But that that cemetery needs a lot of work And so we're hoping to do another one this fall as well to help get that cleaning up And then we um looked at our south burlington lot pricing. We compared it with other municipalities. We looked at The dimensions of the lot. Um, this is other towns and what they um Currently charge versus what we charge So those are things that we've accomplished since last we met in 2019 and next one so this is kind of a Tom's great Chart from last time we've kind of taken it and did that red line down the middle is kind of where we are In the scheme from when we first started um so We identified needing toite to find out Open spots in the cemetery. We did that through the sonar service We have we're going to present to you tonight. Um, a new lot pricing for the cemetery lots So those are two things that we have completed And then this year we're having um Maureen and I are going to be working on hopefully the formal plaque trying to get a better idea Taking that map that peter showed you taking the maps from the lot um from the highway department and saying Okay, I can see smith Do we see a smith on the map and can we make these and then does it make it work If I look at the neighbor on the map does it just does it follow the thought process of of a I keep saying I can sell sheet but rows and Columns kind of stuff So that's that's going to be a lot of work So we hope to get started with that because it's something that I really I struggle with every day And one of the biggest reasons I became a sextant honestly um, and then still working on the shovel road cemetery the fence as long as as well as dealing with the brush that's there and the swale um that Leaves a lot to be desired um, and then kind of our long-term goals. We're still looking to improve the fencing and we know that's a costly um expense to the city Um, and we don't have a ton of money in the cemetery fund. We're probably about 11 or 12,000. I think in the fund um, so again, that's something we'd have to plan on um, and then one thing um has been when I know it's one of uh Tom's biggest things and as well as ours Is reflection areas this bill have a bench or two in the cemetery to allow people to sit down and actually Be present in there. Um And so those are kind of long-term things that we are looking at and still trying to work on and I applied for grant last year You guys approved it to go forth and we didn't get it. It was it was a long shot I think we were by one of the first cemeteries that they ever applied they ever gave money to but we figured you don't get She don't ask for so we tried And that's kind of what we ended up um, I guess next slide so can I just ask um, the 11,000 plus or minus that is in the fund now um, that presumably is from people who have bought a lot And either are already buried or that's where they would like to be buried That is for people who bought lots to be buried to be buried. And so what is the financial Responsibility that we have perpetual care So it is constantly doing the mowing the maintaining okay, so any of the stones It's not necessarily replacing the stones because I mean the stones they're gonna They're gonna wear it here weather and they but it's not actually burying anyone. No, that's their own cost Okay, their own cost. All right. That's and and we some of those funds are Money's the city has put into the fund a small amount each year just to build the funding Since since we've started so there's a little bit of money in the budget that goes into the fund each year Tom Hubbard two elections or two budget years ago Put 5,000 into that to get us going because we need supplies. We need to clean We need a few things and then there's a thousand dollar in this year's budget Which will go into the this fund which will make it to be about the 11,000 Okay Alrighty, thank you And next and so this is what we were talking about So we did a comparison of south Burlington's Lot sizes versus our neighbor municipalities And we found our loss size is pretty consistent. We have some people that have lots that are earned size So it's much smaller lots We have others that have you know one that take the casket or a couple earns in it They range from you know, three to eight to but we were right right in the middle of everybody So I don't see there's any good reason To change the size that we currently have In our pricing and actually that's what the price of it is three and a half by 10 feet Currently is 400 dollars for a resident and 600 for a non resident um so we went looking in comparison to a bunch of other towns and Found that we were kind of on the low side and so we're looking to Bring before to you in a future meeting because we can't do anything today um is for um consideration of moving a lot sales from 400 up to 500 for not for residents And 600 up to 700 dollars for non residents And then also to consider Whether or not in the cemeteries we would sell smaller lots if someone wanted to just do a earn So this one of the things we'll be bringing forth to you in the next Five six months I would say at the most To come forth and and kind of make that decision All right Any questions matt? Yeah, so we as members of the cemetery commission set fixed prices for the for the for the Lots is that right? So we convene like we do as a this is my first time Well, we've never convened This is our first report. Okay. I mean maybe in years past they convened but Well back um high about five or twelve years. You ever have a sexton? Commission. No. Yeah. No, I forgot the exact year but um bill Samansky, um, I was going to submit any of Samansky. I don't know what um They're the council signed off on a lot increase eight nine years ago. I believe Oh, it was longer than that. Yeah, I mean I Pretend so I mean so that is it was Nineteen years ago I have some questions. So are you're confident that for both cemeteries you know of all the areas that are free and open and able to sell Plots I'm seeing shaking and nodding There could be more areas. I'm confident in the area that we We had areas sonar. Okay. Those areas where sonar are good. Okay. Could there be more that Where there's like an eldridge where there's a lot of them together, right? Are there a few more slots that we could sell in between? Um, Yes, but they would need much more work before we felt comfortable doing that So do you know how many pre-purchased plots you have that will be filled In the future that aren't filled right now that aren't occupied hard to tell because they don't sold because the information before is so Scattered And it'd be like they say a lot but they have like seven or eight people in it Well, you know that lot is bigger than just a lot So how big did they actually and how many did they intend to to put in there? So it's it's kind of hard to know Exactly You know someone bought a lot and knowing in their mind that they can put, you know four or five Right now they may only be two, but we don't know that's their intention or if They really did put four in there and we just don't know those other two Oh, so one lot can fit a bunch of people it depends well depending A ton of earns and how they classified it how they sold them Or did they buy a double or triple some families will buy enough space for the family And then they move out of state and nobody gets buried there again Right, right. So you have unrealized income from There's no reservation booklet system that says purchase 1975 We could put it through VRBO. Yeah, which is what we're going to talk about later on But the city can buy them back. I mean if they so wish and that people came back and said we don't want these the city can buy them back Well, okay So if there are when was the last time somebody was buried in either of the cemeteries That long ago. No, not that long ago, uh, solinsky Elburn road pipe Three years ago. It's the only new stone down there right in the middle stands out This is one in shelburn road. And when was the last one in eldridge? Do you know you sold a couple? I sold a few Just the last year. Yeah, so these are not hot potatoes so to speak. No, but you know since we've taken over since 2019 We have sold more lots Then they have sold them like 20 years really People just weren't aware that we had them and I didn't know as soon as the other papers started going and they they took Pictures of the sonar and you know other paper did they And the seven days article. Yeah seven days Do we have any leeway for alternative burial forms like either green burial? We're gonna get there. But we're gonna get there and you're running late. We're running late. So We'll get to that stuff. I think I'll be cool. Go ahead, mary. All right next slide So as we mentioned on uh, july 9th the vermont old cemetery association is going to come to Shelburn road and help us um Do some cleaning straightening and repairing Of the approximately 80 headstones there 24 of them are either broken In need of straightening or completely on the ground and buried. Wow. It's it's quite something um There is some prep work that needs to be done prior to july 9th And we're certainly going to be looking for volunteers who are willing to do some heavy lifting Our plan going forward is to take what we've learned from Voka and use those skills at eldridge and again at shelburn road if necessary next slide okay This is the eldridge cemetery and before I jump into that I just make a comment. We're going to do that work on july 9th Everything's pretty well screened in there This might be a public works project, but I'd like it opened up a little bit because Once we do all this straightening I don't want it To not be seen Not just because you don't know what goes on behind tree lines and uh, they got broken They were broken in the past and I hope they don't get broken again So that's something we need to talk public works about and see what they can help Just open it up even a little bit more just to keep it open after we do the cleanings This is eldridge cemetery and you'll see the blue line up there. That's uh airport fencing You can go to the next slide, I think you know If you see the top Slide it's a photograph of maybe four or five six years ago before there was a car wreck Which came right into that corner and kind of wept out the The metal fencing which we talked about I think when I came in to be reappointed um And if you look down below You will see Not the next slide, but the picked photograph just below this one Can you zoom out on it? Okay, there you go. Um, you see the corner where the hit was and And the box that was knocked down And that metal fencing and the comet was made we should replace that with With the same type fencing which probably won't be inexpensive to do um When that's done it should be done with some consideration that another vehicle might go through that corner and Hit it again. So some kind of a barrier needs to be put in there And that is the corner where the uh, 1812 Soldiers are buried and then there's a marker right there And then there's the long metal fencing which see if above was taken out by the airport a couple years ago And I asked Helen to communicate with the airport about what their plans were for replacing it Do you want to comment on that or do you want me to Well, I mean they responded and they're looking into it Yeah, I mean I have to I mentioned it twice. I will mention it again Oh, I think I I think they want to complete it I think it got lost in the shuffle and then we have a new door, you know, it could be Acting director, but this has been quite a while now. Oh, I know things tend to get lost Because I've been trying to find out. Did we ever get money for that accident? If so, where'd the money end up? And nobody seems to be able to give me a good answer on that. So I seem to recall Oh boy, this is dangerous territory, but I seem to recall way back when I was on the drb. There was a There was a plan to fix that. I don't know if that And then and then there's the landscape the landscape plan for the airport. I don't know if that is part of I think that's why they took the fence down because they were going to do some landscaping And then for whatever reason they didn't put it back up Okay, and I think it is I I think kellen you might have mentioned they said something about being in that plan I don't know which plan it was but vague recollection. Anyways, if we don't stay on top of it It'll be like that for another five years and that'll be too bad. I think I will make a note Get it on the agenda anything other questions about that I think we should put up a nice fence And I'm in favor. I don't think compared to our whole budget that it's going to break the bank I think we We need to do that That's our responsibility as donna said Tom completely agree and there are some state statutes that actually put it as a responsibility of the cemetery commission And there are some penalties if you don't maintain fencing So I don't mean to scare us into action But this is a long overdue and a previous city manager looked into this and sort of hit the same Stalls and then same with it now the new aviation director, maybe we can get something done But there really should be a fence there So we'll just keep pushing and you guys can right that's right push back Next slide please friendly like friendly Okay So the shelburn road cemetery again Due to the perpetually wet conditions at this cemetery It makes it very difficult for vault companies to come in In there during most of the year And we're wondering if we should you know Keep the lot sales open or maybe transition into a place for cremation only Should we redesign the cemetery around to the existing plots and possibly install a columbarium there Those are just questions for consideration Uh, also as as Donna mentioned, we'd like to create a reflection area at some point some place in the cemetery and possibly closer to the road Once that gets opened up, it'll be a more visually You know appealing cemetery Um, and maybe some benches closer to the road, um and inside the cemetery for reflection Yeah, you got that on the next slide, right? And one of that when we did the sonar he mentioned that the ground water is eight to ten inches below Um the level so Um, it is a very ground table below the ground. Wow ground table. Wow. That's so it's Pretty damn very anyone. That's why they the vault companies don't want to drive in there How many graves are there at shelburn road about 80 80 approximately approximately Could eldridge contain those if you move them? I don't think we need to move I'm just asking the question Probably probably could yeah eldridge really is the most aesthetically pleasing of the two and you know It's you know, it's dry. Um, it's it's large. It has a lot of open sky around it It's not bordered by three parking lots in a And a busy road, you know, I'd offer though that I think shelburn road could be a very beautiful It could be yeah, it's it's once the stuff is removed all the growth It would be a very pretty spot and maybe a nice spot on a very busy road like a pocket pocket or something, you know So But those are the choices you as the cemetery commission will have to make I'm just looking at a history. It seems like there was a famine in 1816 It was a cold june with snow Here we are in may just having just wanted to say that when when the city Town works went in last fall to do the cleanup the the ruts that they created or at least a foot deep And there's still air to as of yesterday. Yeah, so that's just how you really can only get in there certain either midwinter or dry summer Would you like is sarah dop is um on Vermont historical society. Well, no, she's on the um call tonight Zoom and I think she would like to make a comment If you would like her to wait until you're done because you're almost done, right? Yeah, we are close So why don't we do that and we'll come all right. So sarah when they're done. We'll listen to you We're almost there. So you probably have some the next line is so next slide is really just kind looking at the Road cemetery again And just kind of yeah, so it's just kind of looking the swale area is that yellow line Um kind of north south That is all filled in and we did a lot of work trying to clean out some of that stuff in the fall, but it's still kind of Needs a lot of work Fencing really all the way around it is in just repair Next to the olive garden to the north and the car dealership to the south and what's to the west there dana Hmm where the dark brown the reds no the reds are with the reds. Yeah, just west towards the lake What's what are those cars? Is it part of the part of the same car dealership? Oh, okay. Sure But what's happening we're finding is the worst most damage is where they do their plowing and a snoping it so they just Mm-hmm plow it all in there and the fences are going down Sure, and I need to clean it out and have a nice fence and they won't do that With a sign or something just and at one point had said that he had enough spare parts that he could do some Work on that and then it just get to be winter and then just and left and we haven't really approached tom about anything yet So and then again two possible areas for reflection, whether it's something inside or on the outside or both Park has been mentioned a couple of times just Uh, wait for people to just sit down And that's why kind of with the grant was kind of looking for a bench area up in that front park Spruce did a recreation grant thinking it'd be nice resting spot for people just to when they're on shelburn road just find a way to get a bench in there and Yeah, they didn't go through that so Just to add the the easiest way to access the park right now other than driving in from shelburn road Which is a little tricky sometimes Is to park in the olive garden parking lot closest to the cemetery and there's a hole in the fence And climb over just climb right over but we need a parking lot right we need Well, is there room for it or no? Can we? I unless you want to make that front park on shelburn road Yeah, you could make parking up front on shelburn road. Is it okay for people to park in olive garden or Yeah, I know what you said it here. I'm um repeating what I heard We've been there many times. Nobody's complained. All right As long as you order some pasta don't go at dinnertime. I think if we it's a malfredo I think if we put a gate in the fence we need to talk to some people And we did that last time tom reached out to olive garden. They were fine The latinus park there and we'll do that again for a july cleaning event. Yeah Yeah, um, and so what we're going to do is on july 9th is um We are going to be inviting the press there to kind of get a little more Um buzz about it and hopefully so We're kind of hoping that you as a cemetery commission might be able to Pop in for an hour or two and kind of help and see what's going on and what we're kind of talking about issues that we have down there it's a good way for to get a First view of of what it really is like down there Can you see the date again one more time? Saturday july 9th All right, so we have it's going to be hard. Sarah dopp and then walt lucini couple more slides. Oh, I'm sorry So our we've kind of got our work list. We know we need to make the formal plates of the cemeteries We need to finish up shulman road We need to clean them and straighten them in both cemeteries. We need to improve the fencing every one of our inflection areas So it's just kind of a real quick summary of what we're still working on One more slide one more slide and we're done And as we would like to the cemetery commission to consider the following issues As mentioned earlier should the shulman road cemetery continue to be a place for traditional barriers or perhaps transition to a site for cremations only and our committee would Should have a draft of cemetery rules and regulations ready to submit for the city manager Later this summer or fall and we as we mentioned we're proposing increasing our burial fees And we would like to formalize the documentation required to purchase a burial lot here in south burlington Therefore, we will know who has a deed who doesn't have a deed what plot they're buried in where they're buried, etc Yeah, and thank you very much for your time and consideration. Well, thank you for your work I appreciate that. That's fabulous work Okay, so people online There is dump Well, I I wish I had some wisdom to share I don't I've always wanted to know more about these cemeteries And I know very little Um, actually you brought up the questions that I raised my hand for before It was more along the line of where it is one park to access Uh, the shulman road cemetery now And, you know, if you're if you're improving the area in general and making a nice seating area, etc There may in fact be Official visitors once in a while and there ought to be, you know, clear demarcations of where it's okay to park and Where it isn't and and the proper access to take That's that's really all I had to say Okay, thank you, sarah Um, walt, lucini, put your You have a nice picture We can't hear or see you walt. Yeah I don't know that he wanted to talk. He had just turned his camera on. Oh, okay. All right. So maybe he doesn't all right Okay, is there any other any other questions or thoughts by council members? Okay, again, thank you very much. This was really informative. You've done a lot of work. You really have And we all appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you so our next item is The hearing so we need to I'll move to open the public hearing on the proposed amendments to the land development regulations as warned for the may 2nd 2022 council meeting Okay, you ready for that vote All in favor Open the public hearing Paul do you want to Set the stage and we'll see you first. I believe uh, jessica louisos is also here virtually I am hi So, uh, paul connor director of planning and zoning jessica louisos our uh planning commission chair Thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening So tonight is the public hearing on the amendments To the land development regulations that you've warned last month Um, we have not, uh, received any additional written comments Since you warned the hearing so, um, this is obviously an opportunity for folks to weigh in but there's nothing to read into the record at the moment The uh procedurally You made a small amendment, uh at your public hearing A copy was provided to the city clerk and to the planning commission the planning commission did update their report That's in your packet and they, um approved the amendment to the report unanimously Would you like jessica to go to give a quick summary of what's in this round or would you like to go straight to the hearing? That's up to you all It's your pleasure council. Do you want a quick summary or go right to the public hearing for the benefit of the public? I think Okay, let's have a a brief summary then. Thank you jessica You are very welcome. I'm here a few questions So jessica, I think I think we would like a brief summary Oh, oh I'm so sorry. Yes, of course. We don't have questions yet I thought Megan said go right to the public, but I missed that So we have a few things that we have in front of you this evening Um, we had been working on a variety of planned unit developments Um through the last couple of years In the fall when we brought to you land development regulation changes We did not have a PUD type that extended through a few of the Areas of the city so this um Amendment here would create a general planned unit development type that would apply to all of the areas that um under the current regulations don't have A PUD type Those generally being the more developed or higher density portions of the city So this would allow for some some flexibility in development Is not currently changing Density in those areas We also at the same time we're considering some changes to site amenities so There is a a change to Uh require certain site amenities across the city as part of New development or expansions These are very similar to the Amenities that are provided like in the form-based codes area of the city today Such as small parks and common areas For you know areas of the city which at this point would only Um Require green space as part of kind of a lot coverage calculation. So this would be more planned programmed space As well as setting some standards for the site plan review Um as to how structures on the site are related to other structures and adjoining areas And some small technical amendments including adjusting the master plan Applicability for single user watts. That was something that had come up in Comments during the last round of amendments as well as some technical corrections To general overview. Thank you. Okay. Thanks So do we have Any do you want to say anything in addition paul or should we No, I think just covered it nicely. Thank you. Thank you Is there anyone? In the auditorium who would like to comment Is there anyone? On zoom no If you wish to make a comment It doesn't have to be a question. It can be a comment or it can be a question Turn your i'll ask a question that okay I received by by email and I'd like to hear paul and jessica respond to it. The concern was that The lands where homes used to stand With regard to the parking amendment Because people were following This section 63 of the bill in mapeleur That was removed thanks to our house representatives They were very concerned that the amendment to our parking regulations might Allow the same thing which is to allow parking lots Where homes used to stand and I have responded based on my understanding of the amendment, but I'd love to hear you respond Uh, I'll I'll take a first crack at this one jessica and feel free to um add So I think that there's two things that are relevant that are different In this local amendment from anything that was being considered elsewhere The first and most important is that The zoning In this area where the homes Um recently used to be Um or where it's still green space is still zone residential four A use of land that is not Allowed in the residential four district is not allowed period whether it's standalone or associated with something next to it Thank you So that's the simplest answer to it also from a technical perspective It would need to demonstrate other things but frankly that's sort of the Most straightforward answer to that question. I'm glad to know that I was correct. Thank you Great, uh, michael mittag Did you want to make a comment? No, I I didn't uh, I don't need to make a comment. Um, I'm just happy to At the outcome Okay, great Is there anyone else Any other questions met? Yeah. Oh, is this the time where you ask questions? I'm just want to preclude the hearing from anyone else in the public that wants to talk Well, there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the public who wants to talk so you may Uh, just a couple clarifying questions if I may just go Paul, uh, go ahead the site amendment me Menity requirement that's only in the form base code No, it is mirrored from the form base code It it would apply citywide to anything that is subject to a site plan Either a conversion to from a non residential use in a building to a residential use or to something That is new residential Or an addition to residential if it's more than 5,000 square feet as an addition So say that last part again, so if it's A conversion to residential, okay, so then it would apply So if you're taking an existing building and you're putting 20 Housing units in it, then you'd have to identify some space on the property to make a site amenity, right? If you are creating new residential, then it would apply And if you are creating any non residential development That is more than 5,000 square feet of building whether that's a new building over 5,000 square feet or an addition to an existing one The types of amenities, of course will be very different depending on the user type whether it's for employees for patrons like an outdoor seating restaurant kind of thing or for Residents is there a discretion within the dr. B to work with the applicant and the neighbors and on that site amenity There's a whole slew of different kinds of site amenities that can be applied in different circumstances the planning commission In this draft Basically took all of the ones that were Allowed in the form-based code plus some other broad ones and said any of these can apply So it's a very broad tool to give the dr. B and neighbors discretion to figure out what works well In a given circumstance Thank you, and then the follow-up to that I'm sorry. Go ahead Jessica. Well, I just wanted to add to that You know, we recognize that there's some some locations in the city that are very close to existing parks and recreation spaces So we do have a provision That um at the request of the applicant the dr. B may Allow for up to 50 percent of the site amenity to Kind of be To use that existing recreation space offsite to meet the requirement So that's another piece of the flexibility And I would just add one more quick thing to it, which is that um Uh councillor coda and councillor barrett having been on the dr. B. You both know that many applicants Already provide The site amenities many many of them do for whether it's their Employees or its visitors and so this isn't necessarily a brand new thing for most folks. It's putting a little bit more Description to what to what is Um, what would be good quality and giving a little bit of a framework to the conversation for the most part There's of course a few that have chosen not to do it, but for the most part Many many many have done this The second part is the civic space that's not a site amenity that has that's an addition to or How is that so a civic space is a space that's set aside during the time of a subdivision So it's a it's a lot in and of itself that in a larger subdivision becomes a Park essentially it doesn't have to be a park, but it's a you can think of it as a park the site amenity Really is building by building What's in here um from the in this draft is that if you are of the scale of you're doing both You can get credit between them. So it's not a It's not a doubling up on you. It's it's one plus, but not a Not a doubling. That's great. That's great the the switching subjects All the commercial parcels now have a pud type Yes head check there all of the commercial properties would have a pud type available to them. Yes, excellent I just want to say publicly that's one of the things that I asked for in the first go around I appreciate the expediency which Jessica and michael and the rest of the planning commission and of course staff Did to make sure that that was included in this go around so thank you for that And my last question uh deals with the security area The security area the security fence the fence, yeah If there is a building that is on the security fence And there needs to be a parking lot Would that be a if you were filing a permit would that be a site plan application? Would that be a reopen a master plan? And if so, what version of the ldr's would one have to comply with Or third would it be I have to come with a building A second building If you're building a parking lot along a building that's next to the security fence um, so it uh any commercial Project in the city is an amendment to a site plan. So Other than a single family home or a two family home anything that one chooses to do with their Or request to do is a site plan. It might be an administrative site plan. It might be a drb site plan It might be a planned unit development that contains a site plan in it, but Um to answer your first question Anything would would become a site plan um, whether it Uh amends a master plan would depend on the conditions of an overall master plan and what it says um, I'd have to sort of look more specifically into into an exact scenario, but um a master plan that is Conceiving of areas of parking. It's not necessarily counter to that um And the third question was um, what version of the master plan? What no version of the ldr's what version of the ldr's if you were to amend The master plan or your site plan application Would you be following the ldr's that we are passing tonight any application is subject to the to the to the regulations in place at the time of the application unless Under our brand new master plan. It was just adopted a couple months ago. You've um The you've been granted an authority to be vested under those rules So that's brand new that the master plan can do that as of two months ago Prior to that no master plan can hold a set of regulations So today to answer your question directly. There is no new master plan yet that's been approved under the new regulations So anything that was applied for today Would be a subject to the rules in place today Once we've warned these land right as of a couple weeks ago once you warned them Yep, and then and then the last thing is um Do does this change? In require regarding parking next to the security fence does this change A development of a parking lot Uh on wilson road If someone were to build it would they have to build a building in front of it? um The the the change here indicates that if a Building is part of the security fence Then parking for that building can be in front of the building So I think that's as far as I can say without going into the very specifics of something that is still Potentially live with the drb. Um, but I would say I can go that far and say that much I want to be just careful that no, I understand. There's still open processes. I understand. Thank you, pa Okay, any other questions? All right, we can close the public hearing. I move that we close the public hearing second all in favor So the public hearing is closed So now we move on to item nine, which is Um approving these amendments So I move to adopt proposed amendments ldr dash 22 dash 0 1 ldr dash 22 dash 0 2 ldr dash 22 dash 0 3 And ldr dash 22 dash 0 4 as warned for the may 2nd 2022 city council meeting Second that's moved and seconded. Is there any further discussion? They all in favor signify by saying aye Hi So that passes. Thank you very much. And again, I would Echo matt's comments. I appreciate the Attentive attentiveness and speed with which you really Responded to these additional concerns Both with the parking and the airport fence as well as just Uh finishing the PUDs and so that um What we had really envisioned under IZ has been largely completed not fully but you've Continued to move along. I think in a speedy fashion and I appreciate that. Thank you likewise. Thank you. Well, thank you Alrighty So we can move on to item Pardon me. I was just saying thanks. Oh, thank you pa Move on to item 10 discuss the status of fages permitting and the legislative bill 736 regarding municipal Zoning parking in the airport And we put this in I asked Jesse just to Clarify for the council as well as the public Just where we are with that and um Sure, so Yeah, so thank you helen So there's been a lot of conversation in our community about beta and this h 736 in the last couple of weeks So I want to take the opportunity to just communicate to the council in the in the community Where we are To me, this is really a success story in the city of south burlington and in our region generally A cutting-edge company that's at the forefront of the climate change discussion wants to expand in our city When we found that there were local hurdles to enabling them to build as they Intended we were able to work quickly to address both their permitting concerns And the regulatory concerns through a local solution here in south burlington So there's really three different buckets that conversation sits in. There's the local permitting There's the local land development regulation change and then there's the state legislature buckets I'm going to talk about each of those separately So on the permitting front beta was going through their permitting process with the drb The drb held a special reopened public hearing to take in additional information From beta that presented paths forward within our approved land development regulations That special meeting was held on april 25th the soonest day by statute that they could hold it after reopening the hearing And on the morning of april 26th the drb issued the decision approving their request So that's where we stand now. They have their approved drb decision On the local zoning side, you just solved that problem. You adopted very nimbly local development regulations that will solve this inside defense parking issue that we did not conceptualize as a community in the past for all future businesses Um on the state statute side language um in order to again be very nimble as a region and a state All paths forward were being explored simultaneously Um, so language was added to the state's transportation bill Um stating that no bylaw adopted under that chapter would regulate the local That regulate the location of parking facilities at a municipally owned and operated airport Um while this would have been a great plan c or d or e for beta We really believe that local solutions are the best solutions and because we were we were able to bring those solutions forward This language was removed from the final t bill transportation bill Through a joint request by beta and the city to ensure that any unintended negative consequences of that t bill language Wouldn't impact the chamberlain neighborhood So that t bill has now passed without that language in it So again, I think that this is a really significant community success Um that success is due in large part to the creative thinking of beta To the hard work of city staff to move something forward quickly to the community members who came out and um vocalized their intentions And of course to our very diligent development review review board volunteers who moved very quickly So that's the update I want to provide. I'm happy to answer any questions. I just want to um also commend the planning and zoning department because they literally took this special meeting um by the drb and rewrote or wrote the the decision in about 24 hours when typically you have 45 days 35 days 45 days 45 days so I mean that was a major accomplishment and um Time was of the essence and I really um want to applaud you and thank you on behalf of The whole city. I mean that That really reflects um a very dedicated and terrific um group of employees Thank you Okay, matt did you yeah along that line she rarely gets named But marla keen does wonderful things for the development review board and anyone that sits on the developer review board knows that she is One of the very bright and uh, we're very fortunate to have her on our planning staff um, but I do have a question that That jesse you referenced in and maybe paul could elaborate which is Is the viewpoint that the language in the t-bill and Montpelier Is in fact duplicative of what we just passed. Is that your assertion? Is that your belief? Is that is that planning and zoning's belief as well? So I'll answer that from my office in paul cancer Um, as it was drafted and as I communicated to house transportation Um, that language was not only duplicative of the local solution you just put into place It actually went beyond that parameter. Um, and would negatively could have negatively impacted the neighborhood which was really what My understanding of the intention of the council was not to do that. And so we advocated for it to be removed Is that what the planning zoning's opinion is that it's unnecessary given the language that we just adopted? We would agree with that same assessment that jesse just gave yes Thank you, or I would agree Thank you Yes, I think it's also important for me to to note the other people who were contacted by the members of the house Transportation committee and that includes members of our planning commission who were directly contacted by a member Because I informed the planning commission about what was occurring when the amendment was in fact reintroduced Um onto the draft bill that was on thursday afternoon and that communication occurred between a member of the transportation committee uh, representative as well as, um, The chair of the the transportation committee and members of our community in the chamberland neighborhood Who are making phone calls and emailing and that's because I informed them Of what was occurring and so I just wish to also have this city recognize the efforts of our planning commissioners of our citizens Of myself and also, um, I would also like to To thank the members of that transportation committee who finally did hear from the city of south brillington and the city of south brillington is is a group of us It's it's the staff most definitely they get our thanks for drafting this language and for working diligently with beta but the advocacy falls to our elected representatives as well as the citizens and our Representatives i'm including the state of course our health reps made a townsend was amazing. She stayed up till 3 a.m On friday morning taking care of this as well as john kalaki And martin leland very very instrumental in this as was amp you so let's give credit also to them. Thank you com So this is a sensitive issue and I think a lot of you have been following it I just want to offer some remarks and I'd like to just put some things on the table because I think it's important No, we're not rehashing I was told I was not to rehash So it was stated that it passed through the house And now it is not yet in law so it comes back to the senate This is a very lengthy process where it goes back and forth The language that was concerned the that is come up in this conversation Had the same intent to narrowly address this issue and there have been six different versions Each morning Sorry point of order. I was explicitly directed not to rehash He is going back to the house. I think you did Rehash your I talked about my ancestors. I talked about my holding my word. I said nothing about what occurred In that house committee speaking where it currently is as it's a topic of interest and where it's going next week Yeah, I think we can finish up Understanding the legislative process and then going forward please. Yes going forward Absolutely, and that's what he is doing. He was going back to last Senator really former senator really can also attest to the process that this language that has had six different versions Is now coming back to the senate the senate has to concur the senate could Go to a conference committee or the senate could in fact Concur with further amendment. So then it needs to go to the governor there is um reason to highlight that in the last discussion in the house transportation committee Which is not rehashing but to state other things that were proposed by your truly Was that a sunset provision? Removing the adjacent to and also only applying that to a building part of the security area Further addressing the very valid concerns that I share that our local solution came up with this Language is now no longer needed. But as it was being proposed There was many factors many pressures for many different sources wanting to have options This was an option through a very I understand the process quite well And the process is still working its way through over this timeline when we just approve these rules I have a lot more to say about this I'm not going to rehash the past, but I just want to make it very clear Nothing I did do I regret? Everything I did was transparent and I'm not embarrassed by it Because it's a transparent process and I was taking in lots of different information So I would welcome conversations from anybody that would like to know more about this And I will leave it at that. Okay. Thank you. And I'll say more if more is said I think it's important to just understand for the public that whole process And so it isn't a done deal because it's not signed by the governor But my understanding is that with my conversation with the His deputy that he is not interested in impinging on local control And he really understands that I'm glad to hear that. So I'm hoping that he will sign it and it will be accepted What I would like to add and I do I do ask the chair to grant me that right to speak Because I did watch the hearing in full and none of what Senator Chittenden just said was point of order. She just accused me of lying and I take issue of that from his mouth during the 40-minute testimony I think that he gave and I will add I would ask the chair to please stop this because this is rehashing If he can defend himself. I am a member of the public. I am a constituent defending himself I think he was definitely defending himself. Well, I'm gonna and as a point of order I would ask you to Not continue that conversation Silencing a member of the public who is not only serving her Constituents of her neighborhood, but also the city of south burlington to someone who was ready to turn I was doing the same thing and I would ask that we use the gavel to cease this discussion or otherwise No, I think most of this has been hashed out in the press already Okay, Matt I don't want to I don't want to give Tim a chance, but I just have a going forward approach that I'm not sure everyone will agree with But I just have a suggestion, but I don't want to cut off Tim just wanted to say that I think that The city council staff in the city business leaders in the community And residents all understood the importance of this project right and its future impacts on our economy The number of jobs it would create The amount of income it would produce for the city and in the wonderful technology that will be generated out of this which would hopefully reduce air pollution can you know created by Air traffic and also reduce noise as well So it opens up a lot of of new doors in terms of air transportation And I think it was a really important project So I understand The amount of importance that was placed on this at the last minute when it seemed like there was a problem Right both at the state level and the local level right so there were many Rivulets flowing at the to the same confluence right and and I appreciate that so What I'm really glad was that we were able to reach a conclusion with planning and zoning and the planning commission And we just passed that tonight. It retains local control, but we I think the governor was interested but And that was another parallel method That was not as desirable, but it was there in case something didn't go through All right, so and I'm just saying that everybody was interested in the outcome Which is getting this project through and it was done the correct way Locally finally and I'm very appreciative of that and appreciative of the hard work the drb and planning and zoning staff put in In the history of vermont 1792 the governor of vermont was reached by president the president of our Um constitutional congress. Okay, not by phone. We have phones today. We have email today And for the governor and our senator to move ahead with this kind of legislation point of order You just call them that kota in the calling our city manager. I'm not going to stand for this megan Megan, I will not take this. I will not take the task of my character and just let you go unspoken Thank you for using the gavel you call them councillor kota kota I've nothing nothing looking forward not anything in the past We have embarrassment of talent and riches here in south brillington. We have a great um group of senators representatives Our chair Is the president. I think that's your title of the vermont league of cities and towns the connection to montpellier You have a city councilor who's a senator. We have a city councilor who's a former senator We are the second largest city And perhaps we should consider The expenditure for a lobbyist and a protocol for how we handle issues as they come up in montpellier Burlington has a lobbyist Other communities hire a lobbyist when their interests are that there's ways that we could explore a protocol for receiving information That emanates from the state house processing it as a team And voting or deciding how to go forward This is hodgepodge. That's what it was. But this is how Legislation gets developed. It's totally different than what happens on the city council level And that's why the city of burlington has an advocate In the state house that can let them know what's going on what the process is We are lucky that we have so many good advocates In so much knowledge of what happens in montpellier But sometimes you need a profession I would say those professionals are our house representatives who did a fantastic job Lobbying for us not only on tuesday, but also on thursday and on friday morning They were phenomenal and they did it for the little measly salary that they get as our elected representatives And I thank made of townstone and I thank john callacchi and I thank martin lilland and I thank amp you They came to our rescue and they deserve our our tremendous thanks And i'm sorry if i sound angry, but my words are civil And the words are civil and the anger is justified The hodgepodge could have been cut through immediately by a phone call Immediately, I think there were lots of phone calls, but again, let's not go back I we can take that up. I think um I hadn't really considered having a city lobbyist, but you may be right. Um because that could help um inform and assist our legislators as well as You know the process and and we and we will know but you know in terms of jesse's job she does Watch everything that goes on and and works on it You know it's some of it Maybe doesn't need to come to our attention because it's obvious that's a A city issue that we've agreed upon, but it's back to She is Our city manager is running our city. She's not running our advocacy in one failure But sometimes you get locked on that job as well. She's done a fantastic job And I just want to I just want to tell everyone I think she's done a fantastic job But that sometimes it's too much But I was let me be very clear. I was running that advocacy I was the one contacting all of our four state representatives I was the one saying this is what happened at the they already knew what it was in the paper Everyone should have known what had happened at the drb. I was the one doing that and I did it for zero There's a process of where we all can get involved in the decision making so it's not done by one counselor Right, but it shouldn't also be done by the city manager, right? And so it was simply communicating what had been decided Okay, mr. Kota. I was not at all legislating in those emails I was communicating what we had already voted on both in our council and at the drb It was public knowledge Tom, I just appreciate if you okay. Thank you. Um, I just want to say counsel kota I greatly appreciate those remarks and I want to echo them I do think south burlington needs some eyes on the ground in montpelier There has been other efforts where burlington has a voice there and in this conversation and why there's this tension right now It's because there were multiple voices from different fronts trying to advocate for the same ends And I really appreciate your comments councillor barrett. I think we we would have avoided a lot of this had there been a quarterback another than Me serving as a senator working on a lot of different things trying to get this to to the end goal I I wish I could rewind time and I wish that I would have advocated for south burlington or beta Or the governor's office to have a single person with all of these points of view to really coordinate because this was I think unnecessarily complex, but I just want everybody to know this is important to me I was operating with the best of intentions for the same ends and I was advocating to protect south burlington's rights over those lands And I I I was speaking I heard the tape. Let's I was speaking And if you hear other things from others, I would just challenge you Please don't interrupt megan. He's not telling the truth. It's just rude. Well, he has the floor What is not telling the truth? What is that again? You don't have the floor very good I I'm taken aback by the accusations and the behavior, but I am not surprised by it and with that i'm done Okay, thank you Well, I think it was a success because we got him going Oh art, would you like to say something? You certainly may would you come up to the mic though? So Everybody hear me? Uh, just want to take a little please identify yourself I'm sorry art. Yeah art glugo beta technologies I just wanted to have a follow-up clarification on the discussion earlier Regarding the language that's been adopted if I understand correctly That what we have right now is For a project on the site offense We're now allowed to build parking in front of the building That if we build parking in front of the building That we don't need to have a building along williston road That's question number one if that's in fact what we did tonight, which is great Then for our application or another applicant in a similar situation. What is the process for Going back and having the the design as submitted adopted So that we can or an applicant can move out on that. So those are the two clarifications from tonight Okay, polk, can you answer that please I I guess what I think that you're able to I mean I guess what I'd like to say is that the the determinations of any application really need to rest with the d rb I I can't I don't want to be in a position of answering on their behalf How an application is going to be reviewed? That's that's really their role and responsibility and it's not fair to the process for me to preview that but I could Do my best to can you repeat the questions? Right. So the first question is it seems that some language was adopted That would have resolved An issue with Our application How do we go forward and and it's great. There's been a lot of good conversation Um, it's been promoted that there's a solution that will solve the challenges for our application Trying to understand how we apply the solution that was described today to our application Moving forward So your current application Was approved by the development review board last week If you would any Fresh application an amendment to or a new application could be submitted in the future That is under the new regulations So that would be the process to apply Under for an amendment or a new application under the Now adopted regulations. So we would either withdraw the Well, there's no withdrawal because you've now been approved. You could let it lapse But it's now been approved. So we would have to let it lapse or we have to amend the application Right Yes, or you apply for a new project. Um in the same general vicinity I know you take the same drawings resubmit them. You give it a new application number. It qualifies as a new application Yes, but I guess I would recommend that if you were to just Abandon the old project you'd be starting at the beginning again. So I completely understand just trying to understand the process What the what the optionality is completely understand? Yeah, so it's a very common activity for applicants to make modifications to their project after their original approval We've probably seen 40 from south village over the years So that's a standard practice and in each one The Applicant would maybe make modifications to their plan. There might be new regulations that either that affect their plan one way or the other But that's a standard practice and process Yep Does that answer your question? Okay, sure Matt if I may I just want to double down on my original question Just so I fully understand in my head When you are amending an existing approval You are then complying with the LDRs that are on the books as of the filing Or the the LDRs that are on the books at the original application At the time of your new filing. That's what the regulations are in effect Thank you The only exception to that being the new master plan that you just adopted a couple of months ago affords the ability to hold the regulations in place for Between six and ten years if that's something that the applicant wishes to do so it does not mandate That's an option does not mandate that would be something that an applicant in some case may want to do because it creates predictability Well, that's well designed. Thank you Do you have other questions? Nope all set. Thank you. I have a question on that point Pardon. Yes So just could you help me understand paul what you just stated and how you clarified it very cautiously Do you feel like that was clear to all parties over the last two or three weeks? that uh That that an amendment could take place After the regulations are adopted all interested parties on the specific topic regarding these rules What you just described very carefully in multiple questions. We just passed it in february, mr. Chittenden The new ldr amendments, okay, so he answered that question about half an hour ago Well, let him answer again if that's fine, right? I guess what I can say is that we've done our best to be as clear as we possibly can be about What the state law Establishes as process for amendments and so on and so forth We've tried to answer as many questions as we possibly can from folks who are looking for clarifications whether it's Any of the parties involved I can't say whether every one of them Had the same understanding or not, but I can say that if they spoke with us We did our very best to make it clear so just to follow up and close off my point I won't say another thing on this topic because the night is running late in in my experience with this specific issue What you just described was not clear to any of the parties that were working on this topic So thank you for explaining it tonight. I think it's great that many are but what you just came through in this conversation Not just to me but to just about everybody involved with this They would they did not know that and I'll let that well we will double down on our efforts to I think I know paul's number Okay, we've got rosa and greco who would like to make a comment Or ask a question Okay, um All right for for those of us in the the peanut gallery here, um, and I certainly don't want to get back into the you know the You know the controversy and the anger, but I'm just you know Asking if we could just Um, maybe clarify what exactly happened. Let me tell you how it looks Um on the outside Uh, I know beta technology had an issue with our zoning I know the drb took it up, uh, the beta technology Raised their concern in the public and to the governor the governor, um responded back to it and then the drb Took another look And adjusted our zoning and I know the applications have to go back and forward And uh, they took action and and the issue was resolved and that's what I read the paper. All right What I don't understand is How did the state Get involved in a city matter? Uh, to me it was like why is the state? um Forcing or attempting to regulate what what we do in south burlington that to me Didn't make sense and I didn't understand how that happened. I guess it's been resolved, but that's my question Okay, paul So I don't want to answer the big question of um of miss greco's because I think that's a that's a broader thing But I do want to be very very clear The uh development review board Um had a special meeting they reviewed a modified plan And found it to be approval under the city's regulations. The drb did not modify our regulations They did not look at it through Uh, uh a lens of a lot of people want something to be approved or denied They saw a modified plan and saw that the modified plan complies with the regulations I just want to be 100 clear on the role of the drb as a regulatory body I will leave the rest of the question to others. Okay. I think um, jesse will try to answer that If I may I'll just say uh, miss greco Uh, I did my best to for clarity on this by a post on my facebook page And I really laid out the timeline as to how I got involved in this topic And anybody that would like to understand at least my attempt to try to clarify the actions You can see a post from this saturday morning Articulating how I got involved in the state house on this topic Okay, thank you One I'm not on facebook. I'm in a public meeting now So what I will say rosanne is that is that senator chitenden said uh thursday when they asked him point blank Can south berlington's regulations make it possible for beta to have a solution to their parking senator chitenden responded no Not without going back to square one and resubmitting A uh preliminary plat I will that was his chair really I'd like to speak Can we go back? We've had a question her first question And I think jesse can answer that how in the world can the governor get involved in local politics? I would like to respond to the statement just made by councillor emory Well, let's hear from jesse person. I'll I'll give you that chance. Thank you So I think a number of um Things took place here. I think this was a really innovative creative company um Putting into place several different paths forward Which I appreciate and I think we as a city appreciate that they were trying to find a path forward to locate here The governor, um, you know, there are economic development and regulatory things we do at the local level There are economic development and regulatory things that the that the state does at the state level So the governor is the highest elected official in the state certainly always kind of retains the right to help the whole state think creatively about What to do what what is best to do not only for a region but for the state? And so I think the the state got involved when they saw a company that was going to not only change the face of um Kind of vibrancy here in south burlington and in county But the future of our ability to meet some of our statewide climate change goals and those statewide elected officials chose to Intervene on their own And I appreciate the the the goal to help us think could come could But not to act on our behalf and to make us a few just want to say that this is by far the most exciting council meeting I've had in my eight years of this body And it was thank you. Could you let me speak? Thank you. So I've been serving on this body for about eight years And I just want you to know this is a very important topic and I'm going to address councillor Or not councillor former councillor greco's question a little more directly So this is an incredibly important topic for the great state of vermont the region and the city of south burlington And as many people heard the governor's office made it no no mistake It was very clearly looking for a legislative fix that was two months ago They reached out to me the governor's office being a south burlington city councillor familiar with this topic serving on the senate transportation committee You'll see in the packet tonight an email I sent approximately three and a half weeks ago They originally proposed some language that was very broad You'll see in that email thread that I worked to narrow it I said I don't feel comfortable with this language and I worked with legislative council And I worked at that point three weeks ago to find the most narrow of language Then I called Helen really jesse baker and paul connor and I spoke to them they gave me feedback They said we don't think we need it and I agree. I said I don't think we needed either And they said of the three languages if something has to move forward for additional feedback They didn't agree or sign off on anything. It was just me calling an asking perspective. They said the third one seems the most narrow I then took that spoke to this chair of senate transportation as well as the governor's person And I said, I don't think we need this. It's working at the local level. Everything's fine. And so that was dead It was shelved and that's where it was left. And so I do not fault paul connor jesse baker or chair really Okay, so that was shelved and then the thursday or friday right before the development review board of south burlington was to weigh in on this project Frantically, I'm going to use that term. I hope that doesn't offend anybody But a person from the governor's office was very worried that the development review project might not pass Those that know the legislative process and how the sausage is made the committee The transportation committee had passed out the t bill back to the house So at this point the only way to have something germane for a conference committee would be to add it to the t bill So the argument was and I narrowed the language down even further removed out or size And I was given some assurances and side conversations that this was very narrow Just location that the city could still regulate the size the amount the storm water all the other aspects of this But what was most important is by putting it into the t bill I already had information that the house was not going to concur that the house was going to amend it further They were going to change they were they had issues with how we changed the funding for maintenance They had issues with the gmt reallocation. They were going to add st. Albans What I knew was that the bill was not going to be concurred with and there was going to be more time So by adding it in that very narrow language at the time I knew that it would give us more time options. It was just an option to continue to discuss But I was ready and positioned at multiple times. I said take the language out But as this was evolving quickly and last thursday I actually told martin leland have chair really come in and speak have chair really please because chair really knows what's going on I was on the floor for three hours straight as these conversations were happening and I had no information So house transportation I guess couldn't get chair really so they said tom chitin and come speak And if you watch the tape that just keeps being referenced I hope and I recall putting many qualifiers in every action that was taken and everything I was stating That I was not certain about this and if you watch the tape Chair lambfier was already recommended and already had a ton of amendments and said this is going to come back to you So you can fix it when it comes back to you for those of you that know how the sausage is made The session is winding down, but this by no means by them moving it forward was the end of the story It was going to just come to the senate to overlay with this discussion this action We made tonight for the senate to then strip it out And or to alter it to narrow it to to even further put a sunset provision Which if you watch the tape I stated or to add that only apply to buildings as part of the security area Or to remove and they did had removed the adjacent to to further narrow it down This there were nine you count those three nine different versions of this further trying to address this issue By no means was the conversation done last thursday I just want the community to know that I was acting in good faith to try to help a really exciting company Doing great things to grow here in vermont This is the next IBM the governor said I am sorry in regret that I didn't call counselor emory on wednesday night And talked her through all this I I am doing too many things. You gave me your word. I am doing too many things I am working at the university of vermont. I am a city counselor and I am running for reelection to state senate But I am not and this is news. I already sold many other people, but I am not running for reelection to the city council So you are almost through with me I'm just finishing this term out through until next march And I hope that the members of this community a trust that I've been acting in good faith And if you watch that tape I stated very clearly that I want to protect the neighborhood of chamberland I wanted to protect it. I was just trying to find solutions That would meet the needs of this exciting company that I want to thrive here And the community of which I love and serve your word was your intent was not to harm the neighborhood But that beta was the most important of your priorities Well, I think if I had a dollar for every time a legislator Got some more information and changed their mind on something. I'd be a rich woman That's the process I I know it's not perfect And um, you work toward finding an end And sometimes you have to compromise And if you don't learn to compromise Then you don't get very far Because that's what that world Is all about now. Unfortunately, I think we have a u.s. Congress that is in some other World and they don't know how to compromise They don't even know how to talk civilly And look where they are. So I think We are successful. We were successful in Finding this solution. I hope The bill gets signed without the language in it or any other language And that's um With you. Thank you. So let's move on to item 11. We which are we talked about bylaws for all our committees, um and we had some conversations and Megan had some concerns and I think introduced some language and So Jesse came forward with The final Yep So so what's so first I want to say I think this is a really exciting step to get to kind of a Set of standards for all of our committee committees I do want to go over kind of the highlights of what's changed since the last version you also at your last meeting But I do want to start by saying just Why why I brought these forward to you. So when I first started back in june 2021 I was really surprised by the number of boards and committees we had And surprised that they all were kind of functioning on the under different set of Assumptions so we started making some changes. We appointed a staff person to each one And the leadership team started working on some shared expectations We brought it to you now because we really wanted that in place before the next round of appointments are made So that's why it's coming to you now So you have two different versions in your packet. The first version is a clean set of bylaws The second version is a track changes set that outlines what's changed from the last set That you saw to this set and the highlights of that There are some wording changes that leadership team members found things like that and councilor emory's additions So one so just highlight four specific changes. I Had an included that the planning commission under our charter has the ability to appoint subcommittees as well So I've added that reference in Per the council's excellent suggestion at our last Conversation I've added in a segment about annual trainings and orientations for all appointees We added in Stands us about how staff and council liaisons are appointed just to be very clear about that And then we I added in councillor emory's suggested language on conduct. So those are the significant changes And I'm really excited that we are at this place While we get there Okay, are there Any comments or questions that people have? Is everyone satisfied with this? I know and We don't specifically use the word civility, but And that was cited, but um, I think Megan you raised that objection at one point Civility can be used to silence people. I do wish to read the last Paragraph I thought you wanted it in here. I don't want it in here. Oh, I misunderstood your Email and under section nine It says any committee member has a right to express personal views and opinions pursuant to our constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech An individual member is free to voice a position oral or written On any issue as long as it is made clear that the member is not speaking as a representative of the city Or as a member of the committee and so I I do take issue as jimmy rightly raised that I've been silenced because I happen to Be quoted in the press About my objections regarding this process So I do wish to register that that objection But you don't have any further objections on this. Um, I do not set of bylaws. Does anyone or is everyone else okay with it? Okay here All right, so I would entertain a motion to adopt These bylaws for committees Second, okay All in favor signify by saying I I So they pass. Thank you. I think um, this will be really helpful um with as we um Appoint the next round of committee members To have the orientation have um, even perhaps before they apply Read through this so their understanding of the role and their expectations For training and orientation and you know, how to um, be involved is are clear Okay, moving on to item 12 affordable housing committee and the housing trust fund are here to present Their recommendations on using um ARPA money So we have chris And larry You may sit at the table since you're two of they're two of you. Yeah, just make sure the green light is bright green Hello, yes, yes, you may for speaking it's um I'll just make sure the the green light is really green It looks really green Sounds really green All right, um, thank you for this opportunity to present Or actually first, let me say thank you for the opportunity to allow us to Come up with a set of values for consideration by the city council for how to spend $1 million in ARPA money for affordable housing This is a great exercise and The affordable housing committee Gave this great thought and spent uh numerous meetings and due diligence to get to this proposal So I did submit a cover memo just kind of outlining the process If you'd like I can run through that now or if you've had the opportunity to read that we can We can jump right into it. Well, we've had it in our packet. So I think I'm assuming everyone has read it so Excellent, you can excellent. Okay. So at the so just a just a brief overview of the process The committee recognized, um, you know the uncertainty really around what 1 million can make in the development of affordable housing And in light of this the committee chose to provide many of different kinds of options that the city could consider for a wide range of Developers organizations to see an opportunity to pursue Smittled by a proposal. So we narrowed down to an RFP process. We looked at situations that Was it a land acquisition? Was it be a revolving fund? Would it be partnering with the U model to do something? Of a grand vision and some of the constraints that we quickly realized was how fast the money had to be deployed Um, so to make best use of that money Leveraging existing channels And allow the experts in the field of affordable housing to make An assumption or excuse me to understand our values and come back with some creative proposals for us to choose And in that we highlighted a set of values those values were outlined through Looking at what other cities and how they were spending their ARPA dollars We looked back at our own Kind of big blue sky. What do we want to do? We refined that that focus down to A roundtable discussion of where do we want to go with this? and we also had a a working group to help expedite the The language that we came up today It was important that we include the housing trust fund as part of those conversations And they were brought in so that we could collaborate on this process To the end here Excellent, so What you'll see on the packet that you've received in front of you is a statement As approved by the affordable housing and the housing trust fund This was passed on a vote of 11 00 on april 13th and really the kind of the concept here is this is This will be submitted out for request for proposal These set of values are broken down to three sections that first section outlines We're using the word all proposals shall So we're talking about a minimum of percentage of affordable housing units It's submitted by an entity with two or more collaborating having demonstrated success And then the last would be that the information supported That they have the capability to deliver this within the timeline as required by arpa Into the section two is really where we get into the values And we came to you know, it was hard to narrow that down like yet In order to we're not going to be able to solve affordable housing with this but this will be a meaningful approach so Where do we want what do we want to see in the outcomes of a proposal that's submitted? And then ultimately decided by the city of which one to go forward for So in no particular these aren't weighted But these are opportunities where on bullet two items D through K these are all options where an applicant May strengthen their application by utilizing one or more of those values So somebody who's coming in and ending to be ended these items We would hope would be reviewed not as favorable as somebody who had met two three or several more of these options Some of those options is exceeding the inclusionary zoning requirements Affordable home ownerships is a majority of those of those units that they are energy efficient and they exceed Current requirements and get close to net zero as possible That these units are located in the transit overlay district That these units have a mix of two and three bedrooms in that development And You know more than one housing type We know whether it's mixed rate and affordable You know that they're targeting a certain area median income that does not exceed 60 percent It was important to highlight that there's a there's a difference in What kind of housing would be offered at different income levels and then lastly That the proposal would demonstrate how they're going to use the ARPA funds In leverage additional support to make their application stronger So lastly some submittal requirements that When they submit their application that they they document specifically How many people are they going to help? And How are they going to have outreach to BIPOC and new american residents to take advantage of any new Units that are built So that's a a quick highlight. So let me pause there and seek feedback or questions I have a question in terms of 1a The language says included a minimum The percentage of affordable housing units required by our inclusionary zoning regulations That's 15 percent or 10 percent So I guess I had imagined that this million dollars Would be exclusively for affordable housing. I would not want to Use these dollars to I don't know subsidize a developer to throw in a couple more Market rate Yeah, affordable housing units to kind of sweeten the pot, but still have market rate. So what did you mean by that? Am I Misinterpreting this or if I could just comment Helen I think it's just a matter of understanding what a million dollars might go to or toward in up in any project And I think I think part of our intent was to try to make This available for developers to to include affordable housing in a development that might not otherwise Have inclusionary but have a have more substantial standards that Are not included in just the inclusionary part. I mean if you think about building housing A million dollars is going to be part of any project Plans Much like the trust fund when when we had the the two the two uses of 50 000 dollars It's just part of a bigger package. So for a Apart from the non-profits who but who builds perhaps only affordable This gives a chance for other developers to possibly use this to include Perhaps more inclusion or and Some of the other standards that we included in in the RFP So I think it's a matter of trying to understand that a million dollars alone isn't going to build a project Well, I think that was part of one assumption. I think that let me just say a million dollars could build a project. It would be Three or four units perhaps as opposed to something that might be a larger number Well, I I did have a pretty significant conversation with habitat for humanity Which is a non-profit, right? But their scheme if you will and I don't use that in a demeaning way Certainly is a hundred percent affordable and And its ownership And the money once it's sold You know ultimately with the owner sells it um Or when they buy it rather the money is is returned to habitat and they build more To me, it's sort of like a revolving fund. So a million dollars would be Would build many more exclusively affordable To own housing And I I don't think this this proposal precludes an application from habitat for just that purpose We thought Yeah, I am I am concerned also that our our minimum percentage is just too little And looking at I met with sandy and with monica osby sandy duly sitting in the audience and monica osby We looked at um what the you know, where that kind of average that sweet spot was for inclusionary zoning and uh, it was at 20 percent. It was not What are you remembering sandy? It was between the 15 and 20 at least the 20 was part of it, but 10 to 15 was was on the low end and and so I would Respectfully ask that that number be increased given the fact like chair really said that we are um making it possible to To get more than the $50,000 that we provide every year in our affordable housing trust fund the um, so just that that that was a discussion that We spent a lot of time on and The the scope of the requirements Were so that we would capture a large net of applications And we're not ruling out any kind of creativity. So just because we can't think of a wonderful idea you know The experts uh, you know, we're really turning it over to the experts to come forward. This does not Limited to you know that one application We're hoping by expanding the criteria So that a habitat could come forward by that proposal that was spoken very highly And with knowing the constraints of if we bumped up that inclusionary requirement Are are we also? Eliminating the financial feasibility of that happening if the 1 million dollars isn't enough How how would something like that be realized? So we're that's why we added item d2d Which wouldn't allow for a higher percentage allow them the flexibility and we do not want to see this money This is a high priority as well, but this is not subsidizing Market rate housing. Um, this is strictly for Affordable housing and we want to know how that money is going to be used towards that process Um, so It was a lower bar to catch a larger amount of applications and and I hope maybe At some point Jesse could talk about, you know, if this were to move for maybe with that criteria Or that selection process might look like so if you did catch, you know, 15 applications and During that review process one rose to the top such as they were able to accomplish 20% inclusionary zoning That would be a consideration to the process Yes, my understanding of, you know, historically looking back at You know, kind of the the state being a benefactor for great projects, which I see this as an example of right That the bar is not set low. It's set high Um, you know, that's where the great cathedral in florins, italy came from it was a request for projects. Um So let's let's think You know Higher and bigger and and and bigger in terms of you know, it's looking at summit properties And they, you know, they said we could use the million dollars and they have much more than 10 to 15 percent Uh affordable housing in in their in their buildings. Um So I hope that we are really aiming for that for the creme de la creme Of the affordable housing community, whether the private summer summer summit properties or the nonprofit habitat for humanity You know and and cht and and cathedrals square There, I mean, we have we have the creme that I come here in the state of vermont. So so let's aim high Yep, so under that example that you cited, um, cancer library on the summit properties. Um, that's a that's that's One project that's an example of leveraging multiple funding sources To get to those, uh, AMI in mixed inclusionary zoning Where we would be encouraged by projects similar to that was they're already doing this much With that extra million dollars, we can go this much further those kind of applications fit the criteria that we set forth that they would Be able to leverage other fund funding sources and and it's not beneficial that this would be the only funding source for the for the reason, um Larry cited, uh, so this is shooting high and this is capturing that the the feedback That we landed on was that the more we narrow those the more we limit, uh, the opportunities That might be brought forward that we're not thinking of now So this does not preclude that A second piece just to bolt onto that would be We we kind of had a discussion of like well if we had a little bit more than a million, uh, that can go a little bit further The the parameters for the request was up to a million We did ask, um in the application if you could do a little bit more, um, what what could you do with a little bit more It's not a it's not a commitment, but Use your creativity to deliver a solution that, um, the city council and the voters could get behind So I I share, uh The values that you outlined and I think that's consistent with the the committee's Proposal set forth here Again, it's casting a wide net to choose from to take advantage of the the market's creativity And I must insist I I've spoken with people who I won't name but who are experts in the field And who believe that our 10 to 15 percent is way too low And I I really do, um, ask us to consider going up just a five percentage point increment to at least the sweet spot Nationally, I think we could go higher to be honest looking at what summit properties does Um, but at least 15 to 20 percent should be our minimum That's, um Are you talking about the regulations or or or here? Both? Yeah, so, um, our the scope of our request was narrow to how to use our ARPA funds Our baseline was we start with the existing Inclusionary zoning requirements and we go up from there. Um, so we're hoping that They're already required to do this inclusionary We don't want to see that money used for what's already supposed to be built We want to see what's bolted on on top of that Okay, matt I just want to say this is tremendous work by the affordable housing committee and the housing trust fund committee um, I think you've created a very well thought out framework And casting a wide net crestlery makes a lot of sense here my question is Isn't everyone going to ask for the million dollars given the cost? I mean are we expecting I mean as we think about how to how to utilize this money to maximize the amount of affordable housing we have in our city um, Have any thoughts about Whether this is two three four split up or one So that's always the challenge when you have to divvy up a limited pool of money When you have applicants that'll come in, um, do you dilute the the effectiveness of of that pool of money or you put it forward and I would encourage that we do not Limit This we haven't spoke about this committee. I'm just I'm just speaking Offhand here that we wouldn't add a requirement To limit that it's only a million dollars. We'll let the We let the experts come forward with an application and then how that application is selected ways that into consideration I think the timetable on the spending committing this money is going to is going to limit the number of applicants It's a it's a very short period if if something's not in the pipeline now It's it's it's it's it's doubtful that it could go through the permitting process in time. I agree Okay, other questions or comments from the council Well, I have another one. Um, I was disappointed to see in in 2f That you're not, um Asking for net zero You're saying the closer to net zero the better Yeah, but you know, I serve on the energy committee the task force and Our goals are a lot better than that and when you really think about Making a difference in a family's life with owning a property Versus renting even if it's subsidized Once you own it your income, it doesn't matter if you go up 10 bucks and you're not going to Lose your subsidy you you own the thing and um, I mean the new apartments That habitat built or how you know condos They're eating Annual heating is three hundred and forty dollars or something. That's affordable Um You know and so I I think the technology seems to be there to build You know net zero homes if we're really thinking long term and the conversation With the amongst the counselors is you know, how are we going to spend this money? Not just this million but all of the ARPA and I I don't think I'm making this up. I believe we all agreed that we really wanted it to have a lasting Import to the community not just be You spend the money And then it's gone um, and and so I I think this just Falls shorter than what I was imagining. Yeah, I know a million dollars isn't a huge amount of money to to build housing but um, I think there are entities out there that Don't kind of fit it into the market rate and I know there's also other people who believe that it all should be mixed because You know, you don't want to separate um lower income people from other people but I mean, I wasn't envisioning this million dollars going into a five-story affordable housing unit I was really thinking of multiple homes Turned into affordable housing with you know, maybe several units um all over the city And and really and that ownership piece And I'm I'm curious in in this proposal if we You know have a great developer who wants to go up to 20 percent or 30 percent megan right when they if it's if its ownership And the and the person buys it who gets that money does it come back to us to reinvest? Or is it just That's the payoff For building it I mean, how does that work? I think that was one of the hardest discussions that we had in terms of the net zero discussion and and again Um, these these are recommendations I I I trust that you can amend them If you think that's if you if you think that's how that should go um I have to say that I think our overall task was or overall thought was Get some rfps in don't make it so difficult that no one's going to Apply for the money and I think that's was And behind the behind saw a lot of the discussions because we want that's how we got to as close to net zero As possible and that there's some weighting to the in that in that um in some of the um Factors so Is there waiting? I thought chris said there wasn't a waiting Well, I think it's I think it's added in as suggestions and I think that would give One, I mean, I think that strength in the proposal strength in the proposal, right? I mean affordability and the energy and the the transit I mean the you know, that's sort of the safe Not safe the smart housing development model I think is ingrained in this in a way that we also want to have some applicants who can actually make the timeline And I'm not sure we had any preconceptions about I know there was discussions about habitat Um, I'm not sure we had any other preconceived or or understanding of any other Like you're you're offering Helen in terms of individual units There was that there is some they will I think there will be some discussion about use of other money in terms of creating a loan fund That might help individual homeowners approach weatherization in their homes And there's other ways there's other money that But in this case, we're talking about this ability to build Yeah, when I heard, you know, Helen's idea for the million dollars, um, which I loved I thought immediately of what I had seen on one of those Maryland And I can't remember smart growth webinars Talking about Olson Woods and I had sent that to the affordable housing committee And it's a fabulous You know green community in the heart of portland And and that's what I had envisioned And not another, you know, what we see, you know, usually kind of Development and I I do share Helen's disappointment that this would not be You know a neighborhood so to speak that this would not be something that would be unique something that doesn't have to have the Bar too high for people but would get creative people saying I really want to put my stamp on South Burlington This is kind of my baby, right? That's what I had envisioned I very much Hope that we can remind you of what Olson Woods was about Again, it was, you know single family, but it was it was They were they were Multi-unit, but you know, they were side by side And you know, they they were not the five-story apartment buildings and and they were surrounded by nature and In a very sensitively designed, you know community design And I yeah May I offer some feedback based on some of the Yes, please And then opportunities for improvement on the applications So, you know, I'll start with chair railing and councilor emmer here. So the Options to strengthen application if there are if there's anything in here that would exclude Olson from being realized or or a habitat That's good feedback because the the I had that specific example in mind that these criteria do not On you know, unless there's something that I'm missing here that would not exclude that from being a reality Correct. Yeah So you kind of want to get the creative juices flowing by saying think big think, you know So and then conversely, so we have a proposal from council. I'm really talking about emmer Olson Woods, which we shared with the group and and discussed. We also have a A different proposal Chair really has offered Which is also not excluded from the from the criteria here But what I think you will find is if you apply those situations here, they check off multiple boxes, which would Bring those applications to the top. I would hope in the selection process versus an application that came through that was You know, if if if you don't want to see a five-story brick building in the You know and you know dense and it's not Reflective what we want. Um, I I hope that those applications would stand out in comparison of those But also again, just just the back pedal We're trying to capture both scenarios here And I think we were to narrow it just to that one or to that one. How do you make both realized With such tight criteria So that's that's that's what we're trying to accomplish here And I think it's human size. I think, you know, but not letting five-story buildings be among the choices I'm encouraged by both the situations that you presented are both realities under under this under the sprawls Okay, are there other thoughts Tim I mean from our past experience. I believe that we've used a housing trust fund to help You know like people like cht Or cathedral square nibble around the edges on permit fees and impact fees and things like that and in the case of summit I think it's a larger amount of money and it could be and if you remember They had a line item in there for what another 400 grand That they're like it could just magically appear from us from somewhere if you remember, I mean we asked that question What's that line item and where's it coming from? I think You know the signal was that they were hoping would be arpa funding, right? But the point is is that I mean these are all great ideas But you're not going to get any movement unless somebody has an application and they have a plan and they have land And they're gonna they have a design they want to build and if they're a nonprofit They're going to get more units out of it, you know than if it were You know a for-profit developer So you're at the mercy of somebody who wants to build something and sees that they could get a little bit of money from you Or from this this process which is pretty well laid out. I appreciate it So I mean obviously the biggest return on a large chunk of money is going to go to a four or five story building In terms of number of units you get for affordable housing It would be nice to have some Lower landscape type home ownership, but you you're going to have to have the developer. It could be private nonprofit or whatever You know want to come in with an application to do that and you you might never ever get that Because land is just too expensive right now, right? That's what the million dollars is for Well, I mean but a million dollars is not going to go go that far Especially if you're going to have several applications up until You know the the date that in 2024, right? So you've got you don't have a lot of time Because you've got to at least you know, obligate it right and then spend it So, I mean, I think this is the right way to go the question is you have to wait for somebody to propose something to you, right? So Yeah And you're okay with just I think we this this is their first Well, I mean what if What if for some reason that's the only application they get for this funding and they want to go from 10 to 20 percent? I mean would we deny them any money at all? I mean we don't have to spend the money at all if we don't want to Right if we don't obligate the funds. Does it do we have to send it by to the treasurer? Can we obligate it for something else? Um, so we have to obligate the funds by december 24 by december 2024 and then spend by december 26 So if we put this out all the street and we only get responses for 700,000 and we keep hustling and seeing what we can get And we still only get 700,000 you can allocate 300,000 to something else that we could spend in those two years No, a wide net makes sense in this case. Yeah So I have a suggestion Yeah, just like you said as close to net zero as possible Can we say as close to 50 percent affordable as possible? Give it the higher range as well as the the base minimum I'm not a um affordable housing It wouldn't prevent the 10 percent it would just say as close to 50 percent as possible give them a goal the the scenario you mentioned Could present an option where a million dollars isn't enough to close the The dollars required to close the gap between 10 and the 50 so it'll contribute And we would hope that they are leveraging other sources from our conservation board federal money if it's in a certain area it can qualify for extra money so It's just comes to a down to Is is it enough and would you be willing to contribute more money to close that gap if that money didn't exist? That would be the bridge that we cross when we get there But the 10 percent would be there because you're saying at least a minimum our our current i-z requirement But as close to 50 percent as possible gives them a goal, but they know that if they make it above 10 That they can apply City council still has to approve whatever right and we can manipulate this or change But I mean I appreciate what you did Yeah, you did what we asked you to and you came up with a plan I just would note that I think almost all your committee is either in the room Or online janet bellavance and darrell and peters and emily krasnow Installed it sandi's here and ariel's here. I don't think emily's on the committee, but she's on the housing trust fund She's on the housing trust fund. Yeah Yeah Um, sandy. Did you want to say something? Is the great is the light ah now it's on Okay, I wanted to say uh just a couple well first of all D talks about You would strengthen your proposal you'd be given additional weight if your percentage is greater Than what's required very good And if you just set up to 50 percent It would sort of sound like that's good enough when habitat Could come in with 100 percent Okay, and it would sort of make 50 percent look as good. Anyway, I just think that's a little confusing But on the energy thing Um, this is a conversation I had with david moan before this process ever got started And I talked with him a lot And I said moan He's the executive director of habitat green mountain habitat humanity And I we were talking about energy efficiency and how much they do and everything And I said have you ever built a zero net zero house He said once in charlotte, and I will never do it again He said the the cost to get Like I don't know what what our hindsburg roadhouse is, you know I don't know if it goes beyond the standards that we have or not I think maybe it does but it's it's not net zero and he says to get Once you get up above 80 90 How much you have to pay? invest To get two or three more percent higher Okay, sure enough the return on your investment, you know the pluses and minuses Just aren't worth it because you're taking money away from building more houses So I just wanted to share that okay. That's helpful. Thank you. So and the other thing I will share is As I said, I speak with uh communicate with david fairmount On friday, he happened to say he sent me an email and he said Well, what's happening with the city council's proposal for um million dollars for affordable housing? and since um jesse had sent us the warning that included the memo and the RFP recommendations Um, I figured well, it's public document. I sent it to him. He was Thrilled I will watch this process very closely Um, I can I'll be happy to send you a copy of his email. Watch your engage in it I don't want to just a watch It's not you haven't approved it yet. So there's nothing for him to watch until Yeah, for certain until you take action. So I'd be happy to send you his email Um, but I was really thrilled personally. Okay. I was really thrilled that he was thrilled I wanted to share that. Okay. Thank you. Could I just offer just a just a Our task was to create an RFP our task wasn't to try to decide how the money was going to be spent So I think it's really important to be Have a little distance from who might the who might the proposals come from Just in terms of I mean, I want it would be wonderful to get a proposal from them But we should be careful about how how much we you know offer one versus another at this point true Yes, so one of one of the um One of our values for the audience. Would you tell everyone? Yeah, my name is ariel jensen vargas And I'm a member of the affordable housing committee Um, and I love the cht habitat for humanity model. I love it It builds affordable housing very affordable for the right, you know for the right people But it does not build generational wealth And that's part of the reason that we want a house as we want something to pass along to your kids So and they pass along to their kids and then change the neighborhood long term When their their model requires that that the sale of that property goes back to the nonprofit That family loses that increase in generational loss. They get some. Yep. They get some they don't get That they they don't get What it is to pass along to their kids said to give their kids a leg up And one of the values that we've articulated Is to make sure that Is to is to really state a value that we reach out to new americans and african americans and other um, you know non-white People who are especially disadvantaged when it comes to home ownership And these would be exactly the the groups of people who are most disadvantaged in terms of building generational wealth So while I would look at Well, if we want to take habitat for humanity and they say, okay, they got they got a hundred percent Now we have a private developer. They got five percent and we average them out. Yeah, we get 50 percent But that's like conflating The actual impact on the community That's why we're not So heavy with the percentages because that's that's a that's something to talk about But we can talk about But we are we're also going to be losing something So we may yes have a hundred percent affordable housing But then if we're losing that other aspect of it Then that's something just to take into consideration And that's why we're not being a very hard and fast With the numbers that we're pushing for and that's why we're putting a low barrier Because we want to be able to consider a lot of a lot of things that are not exactly spelled out And their impacts on the community Okay, thank you Megan Cooperative living is is something that some people really desire, you know, and in charlotte. There's this cooperative A housing co-op in burlington. There's a housing co-op. What's great about the charlotte charlotte, sorry Housing co-op is that there's actual farming. I mean there's land to to farm on And people choose to live without having, you know, the great grandkids get the you know The million dollars that you got as the equity increase and they they find it to be sustainable living It's it's kind of a lifestyle But what I'm saying is the cht the cht habitat for humanity model Is a hundred percent affordable, but it comes at a different kind of price Which is not which is not described by by that percent. Yeah, it's a short-term solution It gives that that which is something because to take into consideration I mean, yeah, we need affordable housing. Is that a trade-off that we're willing to make Or can we do something to really build home ownership and communities, especially with Classically disadvantaged groups. So that's all I'm saying is that we're we've thought this out in the affordable housing committee And that's part of the reason why we set a low barrier and we're not really pushing hard for that percentage because We want to be able to take a lot of things into consideration when considering a proposal. Thank you. Thank you Sandy you want to make another? Oh Matt Ariel Is a relatively new committee member, but she may not realize that our inclusionary zoning rules Require perpetual affordability, right? Which are built on the model of cht And it's not just that the state law requires that any Housing and conservation board funding or oh for sure. Yeah any of that funding has to go To perpetually affordable housing now some of this new stuff. They're talking about this year They've been talking about 10 years maybe and maybe not quite as perpetual as the current rule But the current law is if you get state funding for affordable housing, it's perpetually affordable Right No for ownership too Matt, did you have a I just wanted to ask the clock is ticking on this This money, uh, what is the ask from your committee regarding from us to get this rfp on the street? So again the charge to the committee was really to write the scope and the values that would become a scope of work in an rfp And I think ultimately you all need to Approve that those set of values so I can go back with staff and write the rp and get it out onto the street Certainly you could send it back to the committees and ask them to make the changes you've discussed tonight Or you could approve as presented or you could You know accept what they've presented change it tonight and approve it yourselves. I think those are your three paths forward Well, I would move to approve these as is right now second Okay, so further discussion I wish we could do some loftier goals, but I would at least like to have it be 15 percent be the minimum, which is the minimum for um, the rental properties that we have Affordability I would like that slightly higher. How about you tom? I'm trying to recall the 15 percent is a concern because there's some projects that just wouldn't qualify um I don't recall a severe objection to going to 15 percent But I feel like if we keep it at 10 there still could be projects that come forward with 15 I could go either way I think it's fine as is and I think projects that come before us with 15 affordable housing Would probably more likely get the funding Well, that's probably true We have a lofty a lofty language like the higher Higher the percentage the more attractive the the project Okay We still have final say, yeah Okay, I mean I I would agree you've um Convinced me I guess that The low bar Still might attract a high bar A high performance um And and and maybe something really creative. I don't know We have an emotion that's been made and seconded. Um So are we ready for that vote? Yes Okay All in favor Please signify by saying I I any post. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you all And thank you for waiting and Okay, we now we're going on to financial report item 13 Right, yeah Where is Andrew? Oh, sorry So Andrew's not here tonight, but Martha our finance officer is here. But where is Andrew? He's sick. Is he okay? He's sick. He's sick. I'm sorry. I didn't realize Yeah, okay. He's not in Washington DC seeing 85 Smithsonian exhibits and his name is clearly all the agenda which is intent to be here Okay So this was a great report by the way, yeah credit to Martha. Yeah And for the department heads The mature End of March financial spring us to the end of the third quarter Which is critical in making decisions going into the course of the year And department heads put together their budget narratives Based on what is spent today That was included in the agenda long document a lot of information But overall our spending right now is 66 percent And that is consistent with power period, but it's a little slightly less Our revenues are higher 90 percent looking really good But that is because we did inter fund Transfers that we normally do at the end. We are trying to get ahead of Everything closing the year so that when you Your end closing comes then there's not a lot of things to do or at least we are ahead of it The other things that we did as I alluded to earlier In making decisions is making projections as we go into the year end Is we projected based on the current rate of spending to see where we will end comes June 30th and those projections right now are looking real good Giving us a surplus of over a million and that could change because There could be Inversions that are not paid yet and also some unforeseen Things happening that number might go down might go up who knows but right now Some of the drivers that are giving us that big are Uh, let's under spending on some of the programming recreation programming that were Actually not ran because of covet That was also included in the recreation Budget narratives if you read through that and some of the capital projects that were also Probably not done because of the impacts on the covet in a lot of Field positions. I think we have talked to you about Lot of openings jobs opening that have not been felt since the year began And on the revenue side there were FEMA It's pending that we applied back in f y 20 were denied Got approved this year earlier this year and we received the money that is included in here That was not budgeted and the local option tax Been coming in real good. Then we had anticipated when the budget was put together So that gives us a good boost into Going into the year end And also included in the budget memo. We Stated a few of the items that we might be coming to you. We do not need a console Proval at this time is just an f y i Let you know that this is some of the things that we are considering and we will be coming to you When we are moving forward with them and Thank you Questions. Yeah Hi Martha. Is there any impact due to inflation that you could point out to us? Uh The biggest impact I think we've seen is also on the utility side. I think we've seen a lot of Castella in what is going up in The rates have gone really up higher and also on some of the capital projects that Were estimated at the time the rates of The cost of Executing those projects is really higher than we had Anticipated at the time when we were putting the budget together Thank you If I can just add a sentence Martha's Absolutely right and some of the ideas that we've outlined that we're thinking about for use of the funds are Very much inflationary driven. You know the we talked earlier about Um the paving costs going up and not being able to do as much You'll hear later on about our labor discussions with our unions So it may be a wise thing to think about how do we use some of this surplus in intentional ways To offset those added costs. We're going to we know are coming in the future Because I notice yeah the toners needed to print off Birth and death certificates. There's an unexpected price increase in that and the h-factor filters too Three times we're replacing them Three times because of covid or the h-factor filters. So Yeah, those numbers actually went up way I think when the budget was put together with this building not being occupied and The need to change those and how often would change those at the time? We did not have our facility manager and He has been taking those and taking care of those and making sure that those are changed on time and we've had a lot of number Higher number of Is waxed changed then we hadn't expected in the past or had budgeted at the time Or we knew at the time that we need to be changing during the year Any other questions Oh, I'm sorry. Tom just a comment. So I'm in my eighth year and this is the best report I've seen is just phenomenal and I just want to say This is a great problem to have the savings that we have and I just really appreciate the articulated report in all the different areas So thank you very much. Thank you and I'll pass it along to department heads as well Love the specificity. Yeah. No, it's great. I didn't have to look at the numbers and Figure it out myself Martha in this Really want to give the credit here to Martha this new role for her and as the finance officer for the last year Really is stepping up about how we present the information in a way that's accessible to folks and not just Long spreadsheets, but really digging into what's the story behind the numbers and really credit to her Not only for developing this report, but also Systematizing some of that going forward with the department heads so that so you get the information in a Really transparent way. We are very fortunate to have Martha on the team Thank you so much There's no further questions. Just have you had any bites on the on the vacated lease space at all? Uh, we have um, have we had any bites? So 90 degree. Yeah um, so we Have had initial conversations. Uh, we have, uh Realtor retained I think we have signed that Um to try and fill this space. We've had Some conversations. It is now vacant eps vacated as of friday. Um, it is a a bit of a challenging Site it is worn so likely we'll invent we'll use some f y 22 dollars to redo carpets and paint and things like that um, but it is also One office space is not very Hot right now And to it's in the police department much. Can we rezone it as affordable housing? There's so much out there, right it's not hot like it's there's the market is flooded So we're working on it. Okay. Thank you. Good enough. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you We'll move on to the f y 22 community services funding allocation. So that's like the year we're in now, right? Yes, and we have budgeted 15 000 dollars. Is martha gonna go through this for this? Oh good. Okay Yeah, so included in there is a summary of what we've done in the last, uh, four or five years and the city council approving 15 uh, 1500 every year and allocating it to the This organization that are listed on here and we are here just asking you if this is the same How do you want to take again this year and locate this fund as they have been allocated in the past? And also on here, we just included the other organization that the council has allocated funds to in the past But not in the past three or four years Right. In fact, I think what we did last year was do exactly what we've done the year before Last year we just said, yeah, we had those conversations. This is you know, how much money we have and this is where we want to go What we did I think all of us probably received the email from Dr. Child requesting 13 000 dollars for the What do they call it? Infinite infinite youth center youth center And as I recall this last year, we Provided them 11 000 dollars. I think that was out of surplus. Maybe that was how we did that fund balance Yeah, that was a fun But the request last year came in july when we were closing the year and the council approved Spending 11 000 of the surplus money to her and that is included in of what we need to expenses So, um You know, I guess there's a couple of ways we can handle it. We can agree to continue with what we've done in the past as reflected and then Consider maybe closer to the end of the fiscal year whether We want to commit more money to the center. Yeah I mean, I don't want to wipe out All of the money we give They rely on us. They rely on us. Uh current recipients and the scholarship fund is there for recreation. That's important Yeah, no, I mean you can make a great case for all of them. That's why we keep we keep funding them From the front right of the whole food shelf blew off in some storm. It's just yeah, have you seen it? No, these are all very local. Yeah, it's like underneath the the eve on the right side all the Whatever is the sheathing just blew off or fell off and the steps to end domestic violence That was a community member that we started a fund for so this is all very Yeah, very very local and meaningful well, that's what I would suggest that we do that we you know continue with this and um Let dr. Childs know that we will look closer to the end of the year for a fund balance To potentially support some or all of her request Man, I think she was delta tough hand with covet in terms of you know getting it going and fundraising and Doing all that because I think we had anticipated as I recall more fundraising more success With other grants, but it sounds like she is a grant writer now some grants. Yeah, she's gotten some grants Yeah, she she's yeah, but I think it was only $5,000 right right. It wasn't enough to carry right right, right And and pay her so anything I guess now. She's been uh doing a little team of one So I will make that motion Second Okay, is there further discussion so Could I just be very clear the motion is to Allocate the fy 21 column for fy 22. Yes. Yes. Okay, although it says we only have $15,000 And this is for 15 five But I think yeah, no, that's right. It is it's 15 five But we can probably find $500. Yeah, you can just overspend the line by 500 and all right All right, everyone ready for the vote. Yeah, okay all in favor signify by saying aye. All right Great. Thank you Okay, next is liquor control one of our favorites the album that we enter the liquor control commission Is there a second second all um all in favor aye. So we're now the liquor control commission and we have two Gonzo's indoor golf clubs A first-class third-class and waffles chalet, which is a renewal. Where's the waffles? They're just started. That's the one that's the alpine shop and it's yeah, what's cool. We they're already serving alcohol So the they have yeah Go ahead. My understanding is it goes The state's dlc year goes april 1st to march 30. So they only so they only had their first license for like a month And then they had to renew again Yeah Right. All right. So I'll move that we approve Gonzo's indoor golf club and the first class and third class restaurant and bar license for them And the waffles chalet the renewal of their first class restaurant and bar license Is there a second second? All in favor. What aye. You didn't say is there any of the discussion? Oh, I'm sorry. Is there any more discussion? Yes, I visited the alpine waffle chalet on sunday I was going to ask you about the waffles and I took a tour of the entire establishment And I want to congratulate the alpine shop on an excellent move and a beautiful space and loss of wonderful merchandise and The chalet is in the back corner adjacent to their virtual golf, you know swing area So um, and I spoke to the the waffle maker and the bartender and I can't remember their names and introduced myself as a city councilor and Wish them luck in their new endeavors and get a free waffle. I didn't get a free waffle or a free beer But it was probably inappropriate time of day to have either of those things But there were there were customers at the counter enjoying and I talked with them and they they loved them They had a good selection on tap and not many taps, but what they had was good So I'm looking forward to any time it's waffle time. I don't think there's I know I know they were cooking the waffles right there, but you know, uh, yeah We used to have them for dinner. I'm ready for the vote breakfast for dinner So if you if you get a chance whoever's out there watching right take a take a you know Drive to the alpine shop at the hanaford shopping deposit. All right. So are you ready for the vote now? All right, all in favor of granting these two licenses signify by saying aye. Hi Okay, motion to come out of the liquor control commission Second second all in favor All right So we are now down to item 16 reports from counselors on committee assignments Are there any Megan for us our last meeting was the 21st and we approved our final report We denied we voted to deny the airport's request for a rezoning of the 11 acres Based on several things primarily because it was not in line with our comprehensive plan Our comprehensive plan designates the northeast quadrant of the city which is on the southeast side of the airport Where our general aviation businesses are including the new manufacturing building of beta But that is where those general aviation hangers and and industrial structures should be located And so it was a unanimous vote Um, and this will of course be Given to the planning commission. They have a meeting on may 10th in order to to vote on The actual request of course that rests with them if they vote to deny We won't see it if they vote to grant it will come if the airport's request to Have that that change is granted by the planning commission. So going against the recommendation of the task force We will see it sometime in may I would guess So we'll see and um What else did I want to say about that? The employee in planning and zoning. So I I just want to convey that to her She she did just a masterful job. I thought um since um, the the you know is residents who were who were running that that committee And she supported it very very nicely. I thought that brandy saxon also did a really good job. She has a Good way a good pros and she listened to us and she and she came through I think with Just really valid reasons explaining, you know that this was our our um Our right was to determine the zoning Uh on that land and that was our our um Really our our soul our soul Anyway, she said it much better than I did. Um, but our right right that that is our power our soul power. Um and We we I hope that we can maintain That that local control. Thank you. Well, thank you for surfing on it. Okay other committees No, just for the public out there who ride the bus the 17th the GMTA board will decide what to do with the fair policies However, this is running a parallel track with whatever comes out of the transportation bill Which will likely go to conference committee and may include monies for zero fairs. So I'd like to say I know it'll happen, but I don't um, but the time to advocate if you want zero fairs is Now they've had a number of extensive public hearings And that will culminate on the 17th of May. How does it look matt? What's that? How does it look? Uh, well, I don't know what will come out of the transportation bill And of course if the transportation bill would be signed into law and I'm not sure if we'll have that by the 17th So it's it's kind of a challenging thing to do when you have a Vote when you don't know where the money source is you have to plan like you're going to go back to fairs I'll be one of the Believer this meeting more but One of the challenges is that the fare boxes are old Right, and we haven't had to maintain them because we haven't been charging So we're actually you have to get parts on ebay to fix the fare boxes to collect the money So we've got a great team At least I think I've come to respect them and understand what like what do you do in the situation Do you come up with a whole new scheme not scheme a whole new way of collecting fairs? Do you modernize that part or do you go to zero fare? These are these are tough choices And a lot depends on what money comes from municipalities that contribute to gmt a and to federal and state money that comes to gmt a John moor has a very difficult job and he does a great job That's the and he's also agreed to come and speak to us In july Yeah Okay The Task force for climate change met and They're really moving along and it was the last meeting was really interesting because several of the members Wanted to Kind of have some interim recommendations to come to the council before the final plan largely because they felt so strongly that This is what we need to do and they're all around housing The the building requirements and they felt that It was in the state plan. It's Something that the legislature I know is dealing with or has dealt with And they were feeling that it made sense To hop on that sooner rather than to wait to till july or august when the final Plan is all together because this will definitely be in the plan And and have the city Hopefully act on that because the sooner you Make those requirements for building The sooner we can start collecting the savings In greenhouse gases and and not wait another Six months and then a whole bunch of new houses are built or businesses or whatever And we've got even more global On warming issues to contend with so they wanted to just come in and demand it and I said You know, I think you need to have a little white paper That explains you're thinking about this and a proposal to request this from the council So I would anticipate that Happening in the near future and then the third kind of set of Pathways and actions is what they call them Um, the third set is just all of these various smaller pathways um And and we're starting to work on those so, uh, you know, I think we're making a lot of progress We were unable to receive The updated numbers for south burlington They're having trouble generating them or something But we should have them by the next meeting on our emissions so that those are our goals Yes, so we know what our goals can be and is that for the city or for the whole I mean like city municipal. I mean, no, it's the whole city or houses or residential houses or All of that Yeah, which are that those are the real numbers you need so you can set some goals, you know what you're trying to Um change and who's doing that calculation? um You know it I It's someone that the a cc rpc has contracted with I can't remember his name. Okay Interesting. Yeah, that's I'd be so curious and and numbers it will be a current to 2019 So it carves out, you know, all the progress we made during COVID by not going to work And driving, you know, so when does your report come out? Um, I think it's Due in either july or august. That's what I thought July. Okay, so august. Yeah Good Just a clarification. Were you talking about the updates to the rbs and cbs the residential building energy standards and the commercial? Yeah, that's what Okay, and um, I don't know or The airport commission meeting had to be canceled because we didn't have a quorum We didn't meet Okay, anyone else said it. All right. Um, is there other business? This question this question is directed to the city manager jesse baker Can we get some potholes filled on dorset street between? Oh, where you're good before you're going to stop paving and then kennedy drive There's there's some holes and really bad, you know separation and delamination and it's I mean, I don't know if you have enough people right now or whatever, but It's warm now the plants open So that it's a really helly-traveled and it's like You know, if everybody's like steering around you think they're drunk, but they're just avoiding potholes. It's the old vermont, you know Thank you. So just yes, I can talk to public works about that I had a constituent in Montpelier who used to say we kept the potholes Pothole so that the police could quickly catch the drunk drivers because they were the only ones who were driving straight All right item 18 is going into executive session and we will not come back Just on other business one other thing just friendly reminder. I told you about a month ago I'm going to be remote and or in route for the next meeting. So whatever that's worth you knowing Yes, as people do get their Summer vacations kind of an order. Let us know please So we can make sure we both have a quorum or Don't take up some controversial issue when people are around So I have a motion for the next time So I move that the council make a specific finding that premature general public knowledge of the council's discussions regarding the Negotiation of labor agreements with city employees would clearly place the public body at a substantial disadvantage second All in favor. Hi I also now move that the board enter into executive session for the purpose of discussing the negotiation of labor agreements with city employees Second all in favor Hi Sorry, excuse me inviting in jesse baker and column McNeil Senior center