 Ik organiseer deze conference en we praten over het return van fascisme en alle kreepen die er weer en weer en weer komen. En we praten over science en we praten over de wereld van de arts, etc., etc., etc. want er is nog steeds deze vraag hoe het mogelijk is dat de hoogste cultuur, we hebben de wereld van Beethoven, Bach, Kant, Goethe, Neymet en uit deze. Je hebt wat je showed ons, hoe het mogelijk is en hoe het mogelijk is dat Europa kan committeren. Suicide en genocide op zo'n niveau. At the high time, with the best science, we already had planes, etc., etc., etc. In a way it's done. We live in the afterwards of this in a way of spiritual and moral and physical self-destruction. We are beyond. We are in the ruins of that. We are still art. We can pretend we are not, but we are. Why was it never not possible? It was one of Europe's worst conceits that its culture in some way elevated itself morally. And the connection between artistic cultivation on the one hand and moral behavior on the other is a very fraught connection. Just as the connection between character and art is a very, very fraught connection. Europe was always guilty of barbarism, always from the Middle Ages, through the early modern period, through the slave trade, through the genocide of the Albigensians, through the persecution and the extermination of the Jews, to the treatment of Muslims. I mean Europe has no, Europe's moral reputation, its cultural reputation is certainly deserved, but that is not at all the same as its moral reputation. In fact the tension that you draw attention to, I've always found it easier to make sense of it by just recognizing that this gloppy grey structure inside of our head called the human brain had evolved under pressures in the African savannah, not to find truth, the brain didn't evolve to find truth, it didn't evolve to find what's right, the brain evolved to survive, and survival and truth and morality are distinct considerations and in some sense it's remarkable where the brain has gotten us, like you say, Beethoven, Bach, Einstein, Schrodinger, the fact that we can create great works of art, that we can find great insights of science, that's utterly remarkable, but to have expected that very same brain to have a universal moral center that would always behave in a way that was best for the group of humanity, it's unrealistic and obviously an incorrect assumption. So it's not to me particularly surprising that the brain can do horrific things, unfortunately. You see, a western world is as Nietzsche, no, very well, is the land of sunset, our destiny is fading out, always, every day of our life. And it's true what Lionel was saying that western civilization always brought along with itself barbarian, not only with Nazi, always, always. But it's also true that western, I would say European civilization, if you allowed me, always doubt of itself, always criticize its foundation. And I may be wrong, but I think it's the only culture that does that, always. So culture and massacre, always together along our history, but also we've always been able to criticize ourselves, criticize our foundation, look for new foundation for our old values, personally, I don't agree with you on that. I think we are now desperately looking for secular foundation for transcendent values. We must be proud of that.