 All right, Tim Atkinson welcome. Thank you You've been with working with night as an IC for six past six months, but previously you were a company driver Yep, so you've kind of ran the gamut of you know from starting as a company driver Going through that for for a few years and then now independent contractor and That's why I want to talk to you today Yeah, as the director of the independent contractor program here at night Came across your YouTube video. Yeah, and immediately I was blown away by the level of organization and professionalism you take and and not only professionalism, but Seriousness you take in your own business and where you're taking your business and what your goals are and where you want to be So that's what I wanted to talk to you about today Okay, I think first things first is When you signed on being from San Manuel, Arizona, yeah was the first thing that caught my eye right and then well for people who don't know was small mining community and Not many people are from there. Yeah, so I saw that immediately whenever you put your lease information in and Kind of went from there. So You know, let's talk about it. Let's just tell me about your your your journey to trucking tonight What that was like before and then leading up to where you are now sure so before for trucking I Was in the military. So I was a communication officer in the Marine Corps So I was a certified computer geek in the Marine Corps basically I got my commission through NROTC at Oregon State University and then got commissioned join the Marine Corps came an officer got my 0602 a communication officer that's the designation and then did four years there and got out in 2014 and then got out and then after I got out went back to college Was just hanging around just taking some time off. So I was living in Las Vegas, Nevada at the time so Was doing that, you know Kind of liking it kind of not going back to college, you know, you get out of the military and you're like, all right What do I do now? so I was doing that and then I did that I was going to college and I was also uber-driving in Las Vegas, you know just in the off-time like all right, you know what how a lot of guys get into it just You know picking people up and hauling them around Las Vegas. I'm like, okay. I don't mind this whole driving thing So I was doing that and then of course I did that for like a few years Excuse me. I think I said I got out in 2014. It's 2018. I got out correction. So it's 2018 I got out of the Marine Corps and then Got out I was doing that for a couple years and then of course COVID-19 Everything shuts down. So, you know, the strip was bare. There was nothing there There was no uber-driving. There was no college or something. So I was just sort of like, you know And at this point trucking is still not in your mind yet. Well, see that's the thing. It kind of was okay Yeah, so like I was when I was, you know doing the uber-driving I'm like, hey, maybe should try, you know, maybe truck-driving better because like I did like the driving portion of the uber-ing But it didn't like the traffic portion, you know, nearly as much and if I was just on the open road, that might be a lot better So I was thinking about doing that and then, you know, the pandemic occurred and then I was like, well, geez I'm just sitting here and I was twiddling my thumbs. So I did that, you know, I was just sitting there for like Like six months or something, you know, everything was shut down. So yeah, whatever. So finally I'm like, all right Let's give it a shot. So I was trying to find a Company that had a terminal in Las Vegas and there were a few and You know, I was just looking at them and I just ran across and I transportation had a terminal in Vegas So I'm like, all right, you know, it's that's convenient. You know, so let's Let's do that. So I applied and then You know applied to them They said, you know, yes, right away and I went to their school. So I went to the night transportation school Here in Phoenix. Okay. So I got my CDL through night transportation and then I think it was like A few years ago. This was at this point. I got it in pandemic was When was it? 1920 end of 19. Yeah, end of 19. So I think I got my so yeah I hung around just kind of waiting for the pandemic to get over and then I went into trucking So I think I went to the school in I think October of 2020 is when I went So then I went to the night transportation CDL school got my CEL license through night transportation And then of course, you know, they hired me right on right after that and that's that's when I started trucking awesome and then At what point were you in the business and saying, okay, I want to make this my business instead of, you know Night's business. Sure. Sure. So, you know, you I got in and then I drove for I think about three months, right? and I was You know, I drove for about three months or so and it was extremely stressful I like it your first three months are just going to suck like there's no other way to put it Like they are going your first three months are going to be extremely difficult so after that three months, I took like I stopped driving for a while and I just like, all right, that's That's that's a Reset reset here. So but and then at that time the the country started opening up back up again, so like College was back open everything was back home but so I stopped driving for about three or four months or something like that and Actually re-signed up for classes and I went back to Joe. Just I hang out in Vegas again Just unwinding and figure out, okay, do I want to do that or not? Do I want a truck driver not and I did that for I think it was like three months four months something like that and then After that time, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go back, you know, so I got back into a truck started driving again and so at this point, you know, I had about three months of experience and After that break there, I actually went and worked for another company for a little while JP Transco was the other company. They ran the Midwest I didn't like running the Midwest so because I'm from them The you know the West Coast and all my friends a family are on the West Coast So I was doing that for a little bit and I did that for I think six months. So Started driving went for about three months took things like five months off or something like that I went back tonight for about I think another three months. No, actually six months It's closer to six months then I went to GP transco and then I was running with them and they were okay and then But I just didn't like the routes. So I said, you know, I'm gonna come back to night transportation And it was at this point where I was like, I think I might want to make a go at this and that's when okay I'm gonna go back to night transportation and I'm gonna try the release operator program at least purchase program and That was really when I'm like, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna make a go of One of my own trucks starting my own business. Yeah And now we're six months into it and you're about to own it. Yep in a week or two Yep, I'm gonna purchase it actually might purchase it maybe tomorrow actually so depending on how the timeline goes But yeah, I'll purchase it. Well, congratulations on that. Hey, that's that's amazing When you Got into the program, you know, you say, okay, I'm gonna pair with night I'm gonna I'm gonna lease through them join join their proper owner operator program. Obviously What was your Initial experience with that Starting the yeah from the time you said, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a run at this I'm going to now get in touch with there the leasing specialist sir and And from then to where we're at now. What was that experience like? It was good when I got into the lease purchase program It was a terrible market and there's a huge part of shortage So, you know, I applied and then I had the experience and the timeline and all that stuff So I applied and I had to wait quite a bit I think hey between the time I applied for the to get into a truck to when I actually was in a truck was Four months, so it was a little slow because there was a lot of the part shortage was severe at this time So now now it's not nearly as bad But so I applied and then four months later I got into a truck in the meantime though. I was you know in that four months time period I was just sort of looking at different trucks and figuring things out But it was I mean it was relatively smooth because I just you know I was still company-driving so I was just a company driver and I was still just running and the market was really bad anyway at that time period So I wasn't in a big hurry to get into a truck right away But it's you know, it's pretty simple. You just apply and if you have the qualifications and you know, everything's good You get in and then you start looking for a truck If you're gonna apply right now, it'll be a lot I would it should be a lot faster than what I applied just because You know the pandemic occurred. There was a huge part shortage or huge huge like mechanic shortage So it just took a while for me to get in but I think if you apply now it should be a lot Yeah, it'll be a lot faster than what I had to do. That was kind of a one-time thing Inventory's gotten a lot better. Yeah since then so So now you have the truck you're about to start this journey as an independent contractor Feelings of nervousness or Yeah, a little bit. I mean engine a little bit I mean there was no like when I was leasing to where there really wasn't any Nervousness because you can always turn the truck back in so if something went wrong with the truck I could just turn it back in right so that was always a good feeling The only nervousness right now is okay after I buy it. It's it gets a little more It's a lot more risk. Yeah, so that's certainly something to think about But that's the only real Concern I have I guess after I buy it because I know like if something were to go wrong like today Uh, you know night can still I'm still under the night umbrella and you know, I could turn the truck back in slash, you know, there would be some Yeah Uh, I could work with night to get it fixed our program. I think is built for Guys to start their business sure and and build their business or grow it, right? It's built so a company driver like yourself Not only just a company but somebody that came to our cdl school, right, you know Came to the cdl school came to night cdl school Did the thing as a as as a company driver even went elsewhere, you know and then came back Um and said okay. I'm gonna start and now you're gonna own it outright It's built for that that type of person. There's there's no credit check. There's not really not a general payment You know, I don't even know if you 500 bucks. I think was your probably down payment if that Yeah, um And now you you you got a a truck a rig that's Yours that you've already driven right that you know the maintenance on and things like that and our maintenance program Is is also built like sure, you know as a as a security for yourself for for that owner that doesn't have You know a fleet of five or six trucks that They can kind of pull from their own, you know maintenance and things like that to to keep their fleet going It's kind of yours Your own truck your your own business and you're your own You are one of of one of your own fleet sure and you know your truck going down or something like that You can always jump in a loaner and you know, we try to help out as much as we can We're not gonna subsidize your business, but we're also gonna not gonna We understand that you're leasing from us and we're gonna do what we can to Uh to help out in that sense of like, okay, you know, you got some some stability system some securities you know a loaner truck and The access to a lot of loads, you know the buying power yep for parts and things like that. Um are all things that Help the guy starting out right, you know that that you may not have yet sure And even as an owner as a true owner, you're still gonna have Some of those perks, right? You're still gonna have the perks of You know shops and terminals throughout the country that you get to utilize um the freight that You know even in a down market like it is now you're not having to go battle for loads On a load board with You know 40 or 50 other guys that aren't part of night, you know or or part of the network In any way, so you're still gonna have those Yeah, you will be more on your own when it comes to certain certain things, but you're still gonna have some uh securities and and just help in that sense to To keep your journey going along and and one day Maybe you're gonna own another truck sure and another and another maybe that's Is that an end goal for you or is it kind of just let me own this one out outright and see where it takes me? Yeah, yeah, uh, it's it's on the it's on the radar. Um, I'm you know just sort of taking it one step at a time Okay, I got this one. Let's you know work this through this, but potentially Own in a fleet. Um, that's that's certainly on the table and it's something i'm certainly Uh thinking about doing for right now. It's just one step at a time. Absolutely Well, I know if you guys that are partnered with night that you could talk to and get you there Sure your information because they did very similar to what you're doing right where it's like, okay, let me start with one Okay, that was that one was one worked out. Let's get another. Yep. Okay I got a buddy that that it's driving and I can pay him a little more whatever it may be That had a company that he's at or you know, I trust him to drive my my truck sure Uh get another one, you know, so it works out works out really well um Let's talk the youtube channel sure let's talk the youtube channel because that's kind of what brought me To to you other than being this from sam and well, right, right minor pride on that one, right? Yeah Nice how yes, um, you know the youtube channel Very informative. Um, what was when you started that what was your? Your goal in that When it came to What you wanted the channel to be the information you wanted to provide because I will tell you it's very transparent And I think you say that in almost every video, right? Yeah, it's all about transparency and your journey And helping I'm assuming others sure, um and being more of info an information channel than some even entertainment But I think it's both. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I was coming up. You hear all the bad things about a lease program And uh, you you just hear it constantly, you know, it's a scam. It doesn't work blah, blah, blah And I was always skeptical, right? You're like, okay, does it isn't really, you know, um, so You know, I was trying to find information. I'm like, okay, what? Like what is it actually like what what's the profit margins of what are what's all this? And I couldn't find it. I just could not find it anywhere I would I would find somebody who posts like a one-off video of like here Here's a fantastic paycheck where I drove through to 600 miles and my paycheck is $6,000 Okay, it's not realistic or it would be like a sob story where like, okay Yeah, I lost money this week and I knew it wasn't it was in between. Yeah. Um, so I'm like, you know what I'm I just can't find this information. So I'm like, I'm just gonna post it And that was basically what I did. I mean, I knew how to use excel and all that good stuff So I'm like, I'm just gonna make an excel sheet and I'm gonna post all of my numbers as transparently as I can Just to show here's what a lease operator actually makes And here's what a truck driver makes it because I did it as a company driver as well Showing what a company driver was and then I I'm doing it as a lease operator Showing what a lease operator is uh makes and I just compile all you know My expenses my revenue and my net settlement every week Big spreadsheet and like here you go. Here's all of the information you could possibly want in terms of the profit loss of a lease operator And so far it's going it's going pretty well. I think I've as of this week Uh, it's 71 cents if you don't per mile if you don't count the uh, Lease security deposit, which I think it's fair to not count that so you know about 70 cents per mile And I'm paying off a truck and you know getting the experience and waiting out this Terrible market and have access to the terminals and I have access, you know to the mechanic shops and all that stuff So, uh, that's what was my goal was just like, okay Um, I was very skeptical that the lease programs were as bad as people were saying they were Um, I mean some of them probably are you know out there? There are probably definitely some Predatory lease programs out there, but I could tell you night transportation is not one of them And I I brought the receipts because I show Um, you know everything I'm making yeah, so I bring in the receipts. Yeah, I got you. Yeah 71 cents a mile And an investment into a truck is That's huge. Yeah, you know, that's that's what you want. I think what separates you from Uh others is your attention to Not only detail. I think that's important, but You you do treat it like a business you know exactly What you're going to bring in every week or Maybe not to the penny, but I would say within the night within 10 bucks. Maybe pretty close. Yeah Every week and you do talk about that in your videos a lot You that is so important as an As somebody that's been in the industry for for a while Um, but also working with independent contractors. I you know, I was I worked for them at the terminal level as you know Helping them get loads and things like that and being that being there for them That is Very it's so important to know where you're going to be at next week. There's no stick or shock every week, right of like Oh my gosh, I ran You know, like you said 3,600 miles and I made this great paycheck Uh this take home paycheck and the next week I only ran, you know, maybe it's not even running, but you only put in uh 2000 because that last load you did didn't empty out until a certain date and it didn't hit this settlement and You're kind of looking at like where's all the money? I drove, you know, 3,000 miles again I didn't get it. Okay. Well, it didn't it's not on this settlement What's on the next one and knowing that and preparing for that is Is key because Now you're not playing Uh catch up all the time you kind of know what's what's coming and that's important, right? Um your spreadsheet You made that on your own. Yeah, and Why do you feel that was important to have something like that? Uh just to show transparency like because I can like Say, okay. Hey, I made this much this week and you know, maybe just like Right on a piece of paper and then show the camera or something like that But um, I wanted something that people could just like look at and then just like look, okay There's all the data. Yeah, you know, um is available and you know, obviously a spreadsheet is just like the best way of doing Something like that. So I'm like, okay. I'm just gonna make a spreadsheet and just here it is And uh make it as detailed as I possibly can and just Here's all the numbers and so a spreadsheet was just like there was no question. It would be a spreadsheet. So And that's that's what I did. Awesome. And keeping track of that weekly um I mean, obviously that's going to help yourself out You know that helps that helps your business understand where you're at and I was a former terminal manager Here at night for southern california And it's very similar what you have is not so different from what the terminal is receiving from Accounting and you know, all of everybody, you know in the back office here that that you know gets all the compiles all the numbers It's the same thing. It's your maintenance. It's your fuel. It's your revenue. It's your um What's going into your maintenance program, you know, and what you're getting out of that It's your cost per mile It is your revenue per mile and your fuel per mile. It's broken up the same way you have it Um, so and it's not rocket science, right? It's not it's not that hard. It's it's really not it's how much money Uh, am I bringing in versus how much money am I spending and how many miles am I doing that in and where is my break even point? um is kind of Where you where you're at a lot of the time. Um Let go ahead. Yeah. No, I was gonna say um when I was I should have mentioned this when I was in college in Las Vegas I was studying accounting. Okay, so yeah, I do have some experience with it But if you don't need to go to college to study accounting, you just pick up an accounting book if you want us to know more um, so You know, there's there's that going on there. So I do have some accounting experience as well But uh, you could just pick up an accounting book. Yeah, if you need to know more about that. Yeah, that's that's awesome I think like I said, it's So important for an owner To have that bookkeeping. Yeah, and whether it's you have someone do it for you or you do it yourself It's important to have some type of record. Yeah to know where you're at, you know, if you if you're trying to live And do this thing week by week, you're gonna have a hard time um keeping keep me tracking knowing where you're at and where you've been and how things are going and what needs to change because You're not seeing it on paper. You're not seeing any trends. You're not seeing anything like that There is, you know benefit in in bookkeeping that way and not just Okay, what I make this week what I make, you know, that's that's kind of a way to go about it That's probably going to create more frustration than anything. Yeah, because all you're seeing is You know two feet in front of you. Yeah, you're not seeing the full the full picture. Yeah, um Let's talk a little little pain points for you, you know, where where have you found that It doesn't have to necessarily be with night and and the whole the the lease program or anything like that just in general You know being in an IC or independent contractor lease operator. What has been one of the struggles you've had? um Well getting into it. I mean the the biggest struggle right now is just the market I mean night is providing plenty of loads, but it's still it's still rough. I mean, there's no doubt about it I mean everybody's feeling it. Yeah, um So the market's not good. I mean fuel prices are high, but Night gives you a fuel surcharge. So it's not it doesn't affect me too much um So the market just being bad is a big one Uh coming into it. There were still Lingering part shortages and there continues to kind of be that it's improved drastically from where it was like last year but the part shortage is Getting you know, it's getting better, but that's that's a that's a bit of an issue And I think right now the biggest headache I have is though still maintenance um uh it um You know, it's just you you bring the truck in right and then this is I guess a critique of the night transportation maintenance um Program, I guess you bring it in and then you turn it in and it's kind of like uh They'll do something to and they'll do what you want, but then you'll get the charge like three weeks later and it's like I really wish you would have charged that right there So that would be one of the critiques I would have and I would say the maintenance is probably the biggest headache I'm dealing with right now Um, but it's not too bad. I mean it gets done in a reasonable time right now. My truck is currently in maintenance You know, I figured I yeah well Okay, I got an interview I'll turn it in and have a few things fixed You know, I got a tire that's leaking a battery needs a replacement a slow coolant leak and An abs sensor that probably needs looked at so I would say the biggest Issue is maintenance, but I don't think that's necessarily particular tonight You know, you got to turn the truck in you got to wait for it to get fixed. Um But I would say the maintenance issues right now are the biggest headache. I'm dealing with just you know It's the truck runs fine, but you know, you got to turn it in and it's just a time off really That's kind of like yeah, you know you turn it in and then three days later it gets fixed and it's like That was three days. I just lost. Yeah, luckily. I'll go home, but you know, no, absolutely. That's That is that is your moneymaker, right that when it goes down. It's kind of a a It's it's it's a bunch to the gut really. Yeah, you know, that's That's the only one of like I said, it's the one of one right now that you got um, you know first and a lot of your maintenance issues are I think are Are common, you know things that we hear um, and You know getting those those Rows closed out for you in a timely manners obviously something that We got to do better at you know as as as of the night side of things, um, but yeah But for everybody the the market is tough. Yeah for everyone the market is tough and it's not just Again, it's not tonight. It's an industry thing. Oh, yeah, and It's kind of a weather the storm type of thing and how long are we gonna weather the storm, you know, yeah, it's tough But I think we're we've we've hit rock bottom, I guess as an industry. I would agree Yeah, so I guess there's only up from here. Yeah, it's just how long are we gonna be Yeah, how bad it's gonna be. Yeah, I'll say it, you know, if right now it's a perfect time to work for, you know, a big Company like night because there's they do have solid freight. Yeah So, you know, and you're paid by the mile and you get a fuel surcharge So fuel doesn't affect you too much no matter what the price is and the the price of the spot market doesn't affect you Too much because you're you're paid a flat, right? So yeah, it's a pretty good time to work for a company like Yeah, I would agree. I think that uh talking with You know new new ICs that come into it or guys that are just frustrated with, you know, what the rate may be Um, I think that's you bring a little levity to it when you start talking like, okay, well, you know When the spot market's great, yeah, it's great to own your truck It's great to go and get that get the money whenever it's not where it needs to be Being paid by the mile is is where you want to be, right? Yeah, you look at it. Uh, I use the the the california The just la to phoenix, you know analogy a load from la to phoenix is going to pay $1,000 a load from phoenix to la is going to pay $400 or or those aren't exact numbers, but it's just that's the drastic difference in those loads And that's when you're paid at a percentage Of something or a spot market rate. That's that's really kind of how it goes down and are you When the market is low now that margin is Yeah, just shrink. It's not a six hundred dollar margin. It's a okay that load that used to pay a thousand out of la now pays 700 or Five six hundred and the load out of phoenix going to la that used to pay You know 400 now pays 350 it didn't move that much because that's always been the case. Yeah the other way Yeah shorter load, you know, so now you're like, oh well when I was making this This money in the spot market, it's different So we are seeing some guys come back, you know with their trucks that you know, they They went and got they got the money when it was out there And now it's time to make sense and it's time to come back and now it's How do we retain that that those guys working with us and however that that may be we We gotta we gotta fix that part of it But whenever that spot market goes it's it's great for the owner and that's the investment you're making as a lease operator Right, you're leasing you're not it's not a get rich quick type of thing. It's You know invest in your your equipment um It's an investment in in your business You know owning the equipment maintaining the equipment uh doing what you can there and then whenever You should construct when the iron's hot and and it's And even at 71 cents take home that's still yeah I mean a lot of guys are going bankrupt right now. Yeah, like okay, whatever it's it's all good, you know And it you know if you're coming into the industry and you're thinking about you know, you want to own a truck It's a good way to just get your feet wet. So, you know I think people have unrealistic expectations sometimes going into a lease program or whatever they just come in and like all right I'm gonna make 150 thousand dollars per year And and you're not going to like it's it's just not how it works, right? I mean it's like it's just like any job Right if you come into it Unless it's like, you know, you're like a petroleum engineer or something like that, you know You're gonna have to you know Learn the ropes get some experience and then you know, it goes up from there. Yeah, and this is the perfect way to do so So yeah, I would agree. I think I think like I said the program we built is for that that company driver Getting into the the owner operator program and Figuring themselves out in that sense, you know, what kind what do they want their business to look like? Do they want to be somebody that is You know, gonna build a fleet Or are they the the loan ranger type of guy who's just hey, I just want to own my truck and Drive own it and when I own it, you know, then I want to you know It's gonna when I own it I can now take have three-day weekends. Sure because I own it now Yeah, and that's what I that's what I'm striving for. I want to be home it more More often and that's my my way of doing that. What does that look like for everybody? Right, you know, it's different So I think it's important to to have that mindset that vision of Okay, this is this is what I I have I want it to be right or at least and it's always going to change Yeah, it's always going to change. Yeah as you get into it the Talk a little pain points, you know, you know maintenance is this something that like you said is always going to be there um again now let's talk things that you've you've Either surprised you in a great way or that you kind of knew was going to be there just about owning your truck Um, what do you what is your you know? What are you liking about it the most it doesn't have to again It doesn't have to be with the night least purchase program the owner operator program It could just be like, okay. I I'm Leasing my truck and this is this is great because yeah, um I think I already kind of listed things that are great like just getting some experience is you know, that's a good one um waiting out the bad market and um Uh, you know stuff like that just the general just the experience really is like the biggest point that I'm like, okay You know maintenance could take you three days when you turn the truck in okay fair enough, you know just learning about stuff like that um, and Yeah, I'd say that was that's the biggest one just getting the experience as like a as a lease operator Moving into an owner operator position. That's uh, that's the biggest one and The opportunity to own a truck right so I was able to test drive the vehicle Which is huge like because you know if you go to a you go to a dealership You do the due diligence due diligence on a truck Drive it off the lot 300 miles it blows up Oh You're in a bad way, you know, that's a real problem But uh, so I would say just the biggest gold point the you know good cookie whatever you want to call it About leasing is just getting that experience test driving a vehicle and then Buying an outright here here shortly is You know that that's by far the biggest advantage you'll find Leasing a truck. Yeah, come into it. There's no credit check. You know, there's nothing that so you can hop right into it more or less and test drive it make sure it's good and buy and then You're good, but that is the biggest one like as far as like You know the trucking There hasn't been too much of a change in terms of like when I went from company driver to A lease operator. I kept the same driver manager You know and I'm just driving around a truck that you know I'm making payments and a lot of it is taken care of as far as like the fees and whatnot It's not like you're having to like, you know, write a check and then mail it out to tonight every week So as far as the like the logistics and admin of it Yeah, it all pretty much stayed the same like I kept my same fuel card. Yeah, it just kind of transferred over into Like a a lease lease operator an independent contractor account basically So not a whole lot change as far as that front front goes like there weren't like immediately noticeable changes So that pretty much stayed the same, which I guess is a good thing, right? You just get into your truck and then you're more or less continuing the same thing and Yeah, but I would say the experience and then the opportunity to own a truck are the biggest by far Uh advantages of something like this of this program. Awesome. Awesome. So if you could go back You now go tell tim six months ago or anybody You know that's thinking about the program if you could go back and give some advice or just Not even have to be advice. It could just be you know words of wisdom type stuff Things to look out for things to capitalize on is there is there anything that you You want you would do there? Probably just again just a warning about the maintenance it it takes longer than you want I mean no matter what I mean it whether you're at night or you know just out on the road It's going to take a while. There's still some lingering inventory shortage. It's a lot better, but um, so that would be My advice hey prepare for like some maintenance issues to occur and it's going to take a little longer than you Wanted to take. Yeah, and uh Yeah, the charges were about what I thought Um, so it wasn't necessarily more expensive. I mean I'm running about my maintenance is currently nine cents per mile Uh, I think nine or ten something like that. I got a look. Um, but uh, so it wasn't um Atlandishly expensive. It just takes a it just takes a while. So that's that would be the one thing Okay, be prepared for that one. Yeah Guys get into it and they say okay. Well, I'm I own my truck now. I'm getting paid more that means I can work less And that's not that's not the case Yeah, that's not it. It doesn't that's not what that means It means you get paid more to you know help with the expenses of owning your business And then when you end it outright, then it kind of like okay You don't have a 500 dollar 400 dollar to 500 dollar Weekly settlement or a deduction from your you know, your truck payment. Now you're looking at, you know Yeah, you throw $2,000 into anybody's take them In this room or anywhere, they're gonna they're gonna be most people are gonna be very happy I would say, you know, so, you know, $2,000 a month is Good money for for most people. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's another thing like if you come into a lease You don't expect to like, oh, I could just All right, now I can relax you can't no. Yeah, you got to probably run even harder Um, you know, it's uh, and I think that's something that's where a lot of guys go wrong Like I'll just come into it and then okay. I'm leasing. I'm uh, or you know, whatever I'm leasing this thing now I can relax and now I can run a little less And not really you got to run at least just as hard as you were before if you expect to Succeed I guess you could run less and you'd probably make About the same as you know, a company driver. Yeah, but You don't want to do that. You know, that's not good. You need to run harder So it doesn't really relax until you own the vehicle outright and you have like a A large amount of savings. Yeah for maintenance issues. Yeah, you know You got to run hard. Yeah, I think that's I think that's good advice. Yeah, there is You can't take your foot off the the pedal. Yeah, right? I mean that's kind of like Literally in figure. Yeah, exactly Um It's gonna be interesting for me to see once you don't have this lease payment What your numbers are gonna look like and right your center miles gonna look like and sure it's like that Yeah, it's it's like a to be continued like a part two. Yeah, it is Basically the next the next journey, right? Sure. Yeah, you know again. Thank you for your time Um, I appreciate you taking time out of your day. I know you're down for maintenance. Yeah They can find you on youtube. Yep You know trucking the seven seas. Yep trucking the seven seas Right there. I should pop up as soon as you as soon as you search it So yeah, and like we talked about your your spreadsheet that you use throughout the entire videos or all your videos That's there for somebody to use Right that's somebody that's that they can take and utilize on their own Uh, they don't have to pay for it. Nothing like that. It's just go ahead and use it. Look at it I think it's important to book keep. Yep when you're out on the road and What does your equipment look like to do this this bookkeeping? It's just a computer You got it right there. Yeah. Yeah, just a laptop. Yeah, it's just a laptop and a google excel sheet and that's it Yeah, that's all you need Awesome. Well, again, appreciate your time Good luck in your journey. Thank you. Um, I hope that whatever it, you know Direction you go in when it comes to your business, whether it's the next six months or the next six years It's everything you want it to be and I I I hope night helped you get Started in your journey and we're part of that that journey for for as long as you're gonna do it Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you Freddie and thanks for having me. I don't mind stopping trucks in for maintenance anyway and Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you