 Good afternoon and welcome to Unfiltered. Pastor, I have a question in regarding to the measure of success in ministry. Do numbers measure the success of ministry or an event? I think some pastors think so, and I'm certain that some members of churches think so because they brag about the numbers of people that come to the church. I've had conversations with pastors, one of the first things they want to know is how many people go to your church? You know, how many people are showing up? What kind of crowds are being drawn there? I've also had people who have approached me and instead of telling me what church they go to, they just say, I go to the big church. You know, that kind of mentality, I go to the big church. And so, for some pastors, numbers means everything. For some congregants, you know, being part of a large group gives them some sort of identification, I guess some kind of status, if you will. So, you know, that's carnal. You know, we've been going through the book of Acts. And when you begin to look at the book of Acts, and it begins with the 120, and there's a number. There are about 120 awaiting the day of Pentecost to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And then after Peter is filled with the Spirit, he preaches the Pentecost message, and it says 3,000 people, right? So, you're seeing 120, then you see 3,000, you know, they're in Solomon's porch. And then later on, it speaks concerning the number growing to 5,000. And then that's the last time you see numbers in the book of Acts. And the next time you see something in reference to the amounts of people is simply using the word multitude. And so, on the one hand, numbers are given to us to give to us an insight into something happening. But at a certain point, there's no need for numbers to be used anymore. It's going to let us know that this something that is happening is continuing and is growing. And so, healthy churches very often can be measured by the amount of people that show up. But that's not always the case. There are some of the largest churches I could begin to name are some of the unhealthiest places for you to be where you're getting bad doctrine, bad teaching. I can name these churches pretty easy and they're well known. But they're not coming out more like Christ. They're coming out with a different gospel, a different way of seeing things. And, you know, they have the entertaining pastor and they have the stage instead of just a platform. It's now a stage so the celebrity can preach his insightful messages of how you're supposed to live and, you know, becomes wealthy off of you. He hires the entertainers and the church is no longer a group of healthy sheep. They become a crowd who are there just proclaiming the wonderfulness of the man. I can say that, and I can say that as an elder in the body of Christ as a leader in the Cowry Chapel movement. I can say that with authority and experience, not to judge people in the harshest way, but like Jesus in John 7, 24, but to judge a righteous judgment. Numbers can sometimes indicate health, but the exaggeration, that bothers me. You know, come to this particular event and I've done that. I've gone to things because I wanted to be part of that and I've seen the numbers who've shown up and then later on, that person's saying how, you know, X amount of people showed up and when in fact I know that, you're saying a thousand showed up for that when there were only 700 seats and they weren't all full. I've actually done that, John. I've been there and I've seen that. I've seen, you know, I've heard people say, come for this particular thing. We're going to be doing this and 3000 plus have said they'll be there. And when in fact that didn't happen at all. And so I think that exaggeration is lying. I think it's important for us to not maximize the importance of numbers. I think it can indicate that something great is happening. Bless God when it is. But the majority of churches in the United States have less than 100 people attending and with COVID a lot of churches were actually went under. Then there are those who were saying, come here because we're still open and they were drawing people from other churches and then bragging about how God is moving when in fact they were they were taking advantage of churches in their areas. John, you know that I know that we've seen that that was cross country that happened from from our areas all the way across when you when you begin to publicize yourself in your church is a wonderful thing because a lot of people show up. No, your church is a wonderful thing when crisis at the center and people's lives are transformed when people's needs are being met by the spirit of God when they're loved. They're getting an actual Bible study and not a pep talk when worship occurs, not because you've got a fantastic band and smoke machines, but because a Holy Spirit is flowing that that's real ministry. And so exaggeration is a lie that many, many participate in. And if there's any pastors listening right now, I would say you need to repent from that because you are taking glory from God. You are scheming to have people show up so that you can have numbers and the quality of the lives that you've been tasked with the responsibility of caring for and overseeing. Well, that quality isn't what Christ would have it to be. And many pastors don't know that they just think because there are all these people sitting inside the pews or in the chairs that God is really moving when in fact that may not be so. So numbers, numbers, I stay away from them. You know this. You know this. I don't talk about numbers. The Lord taught me that a long time ago, John. He says, I give but I also take away. And if you are constantly looking at the numbers to make yourself feel that you are a called man and that your church is alive, your eyes are on the wrong thing. You need to keep your eyes on me and you need to keep your eyes on the fields and do the work of ministry and allow me to bring the increase. And so numbers do not always indicate health. When God is moving, people do show up Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa in the early days. It's a great example of that. There have been other beautiful works of the Lord where Jesus was a center and the spirit was flowing and worship was happening. And that's really what you want. And so when people come up and say, I go to this big church, it hurts my heart because numbers to the Lord, He gives, He takes away. One sews, one waters. God brings the increase. Keep your eye on the field. Hold your hand to the plow. Do the work of ministry. Love the people, train them, equip them, encourage them as you send them out. May they be blessed by God as they bring blessings to others. Amen. Well, thank you, pastor. Thank you for sharing. Just want to invite you guys to come out to our Sunday morning services at 8.30 and 10.45. A reminder also, July 23rd after second service in the sanctuary. If you are planning to go to Israel or want to sign up for Israel or have signed up, come join us for our informational meeting. We'll have some questions that we'll be able to answer for you guys. Again, thank you, pastor. Thank you for tuning in and God bless you.