 Don't be normal. Why? Because normal is unhealthy. Normal is sick. Normal is being in pain. Normal is not liking yourself. Don't be normal. What does that look like? Exercise. Move more. Eat whole natural foods. Be weird. Weird is good. Normal is bad. I'm talking about this because I like that message. That's the default. I like that message. The default is poor health. Somebody said that to me when I was I think in like junior high and I think I don't remember what it was going on and I think I actually made the comment of the kid right like I just want to be normal and then it's actually somebody like looked up the dictionary definition. Have you ever looked at the actual definition of it? It's not like you would and you hear it and you're like oh I don't actually want to be normal. Oh I don't know that. Yeah yeah look at everybody else. I think you just blend in. Yeah read what it is and just tell me like the definition of it. It's like no one had ever like read. Here it is. Give it to me. Conforming to a standard, usual, typical or expected. Yeah. Oh yeah. None of that makes me sad. Yeah and so I think that and it really sent me on to the trajectory of the opposite direction because I think as a little kid I said that to somebody I wish I remember who it was. It was like do you even know what normal is? Well it's just. And then they read it to me. I'm like oh that's not me. Especially how. I'm not conforming. I'm not. Look it. Here's why I said what I said because I find it interesting that if you let's say eat healthy you'll have a lot of friends and family that'll be like God that's like that's so like that's kind of weird or you work out regularly. Well that's kind of extreme or you spend an hour and a half of the gym and people say that's extreme but if you spend two hours scrolling social media nobody says anything. Right. So what does this tell you? Well this tells you that the vast majority of people have fallen into the default which is poor health and if you stand out by being healthy you're not normal and people are going to call you out on it and don't feel bad. Don't feel bad that in fact if you're like everybody else then you're probably doing something wrong right now. And that's just the truth. Again look at the data. Most people are sick and unhealthy and mentally, physically, spiritually across the board. Most people are just not well and so if you want to not be like that you have to live in a way that's not the way that they are. Be a maverick. Yeah it's interesting because even then you look at societal standards and how that's evolved and changed over you know each decade like it's pretty substantial like what you see now in terms of like what people would consider normal. Like I'm actually interested to see like right now what somebody would consider that's a normal person. Yeah 100%. It's even the blood standards when you go to the doctor and they will test you for nutrients and hormones stuff like that. If you ever look at those the range is like really wild and you're like where does this range come from and how can way down here be right similar to way up here in terms of let's say I don't know testosterone or vitamin D or whatever. Yeah it's like why not be more on the optimal side where you're feeling way better. Well what they do is they take an outside of average. They take an average of everybody that's getting these tests. Yeah and that becomes your that becomes normal but if you recognize that the average person has poor health well you probably you probably don't want to be in the same range right. You probably kind of want to be in a different range. That's why functional medicine practitioners for example use a different range. They're looking for what they would consider to be optimal not just you know what fits within what's considered normal. It's interesting that why we want to fit in or be like others when one of the most attractive qualities that someone can have is to be unique and to be different. Yeah. Yet there's this draw to. There's a fear to that. I think what you really want is acceptance. Is that what it is you think that's a good point Justin. There's a fear to that like if you go back and you remember the number one fear is public speaking. Yes. And it's because you don't want to be ostracized by the group the tribe the you know everybody else to look at you and push you aside and be cast out and so in terms of of you being different and standing out and not kind of conforming and being a part of what everybody else is doing that kind of puts you in that position where it's like you could just be cast out. Yeah so and that's it's very clear as to why it was a death sentence for most of human history and it still is. Right. But if you're ostracized from your group you're dead. You're not getting food. You're not getting shelter. If someone attacks you're gone you may get attacked by the group that ostracized you. So it's why it's that's why it's the number one fear is the risk of speaking and lots of people in public and lots of people not liking you. It feels so overwhelmingly scary because of what the potential ramifications of that used to be at least maybe not so much today but what they used to be. So the other thing you know what's interesting though is that if you so like let's say public speaking or being different or weird if you own it and you're confident with it whatever it is even like the failure to be good at speaking but owning it and being confident or changes it or this weird you know look that you have with it or a scar or any if you if you if you rock it with confidence right or a style that you're doing that nobody else is doing. Yeah. If you do it with confidence it tends to attract a lot of people if you do it in fear or you do it in shame or you do it like in I'm embarrassed and then it does tend to ostracize you. It's funny how the the same situation that somebody either failing looking different looking weird if they own it and they're confident about it that that is me and I am terrible at speaking or I am wearing these clothes because I don't give a fuck or if you have literally flip it on its head 100% yeah it's like you really have a choice on what direction that that leads for your life is like either it's going to send down this path of you know victimhood and feeling sorry for yourself and why do I look this way and why am I so terrible at this versus just like owning it accepting it and and saying that this is what makes me unique. Yeah that's exactly kind of to the point what I was going to say which is you just want to feel accepted you're more likely to be accepted if you're confident with with how you are so like back to fitness if you're actually you're just getting started and you start working out and you're doing it on a regular basis and you start eating healthier and then you have friends and family that are like god you're so that's so extreme like what are you doing that's so weird right if you're not confident with it like you could definitely fall back into old patterns or you'll only strengthen the fact that you are not doing great to the person who's saying that now if you're confident with it doesn't bother you like oh yeah it is a little weird I know most people don't get up in the morning to work out but I really enjoy this um and you're and you just do it anyway you actually start to attract people in your direction you start to get and this is the whole point of this is if we have enough people who are confident and secure with not being normal in the sense of being healthy and the practices and behaviors that lead to good health you'll attract more people to move in that direction and you could potentially we could potentially make it normal how great would that be if normal was good health not poor health how amazing would that be and now what's funny about this is another thing that got me thinking with this is that I trainers and coaches and gym owners you'll hear sometimes say the following in fact this was said a lot when we used to manage gyms at 24 fitness that what are we doing today we're going to save and change lives save and change lives right remember that and sometimes people laugh at that like come on you train people like they work out what do you mean nobody would say that to a doctor or a surgeon who is somebody goes into the hospital because they got shot or they had a heart attack or this you know their diabetic coma and the doctor saves our life oh they definitely saved their life but what would prevent them in many cases from getting to that place is with the chronic illness examples I gave would be fitness and health better practices so it's like you drive off a cliff and you crash and you go to the hospital because you're injured and someone saves your life what about the guy standing at the end of the road that says hey slow down you're going to drive off the cliff go this way that guy didn't save your life so people in our space who are doing this for genuine authentic reasons who are really helping people you are saving lives you're saving so many lives you have no idea how many things you're potentially preventing for these people from happening it's crazy I heard a statistic the other day that was crazy you guys know Peter Peter it is right it's brilliant brilliant guy and he said and I and he said the following it's it's true it's crazy because he put it in a amazing context the difference between you and someone else having diabetes so bad to the point where they lose digits they lose fingers and limbs or have severe cognitive impairment the difference between you and them is a teaspoon of sugar in their blood that's it a teaspoon of sugar in their blood is the difference between you and somebody who's losing fingers because they have such poor ability to manage blood sugar how crazy is that now he went on to make the case that the most effective powerful thing you can do with that is to build muscle because muscle is a storage vessel for sugar so it's like you have a bigger storage vessel then you can take that sugar out of the blood and you get stored in muscle and plus muscle is in insulin sensitive but how crazy of a statistic yeah no you got me my brain spinning right now so what is the what is the average person average healthy person have a total of sugar in their blood if you need to when you when you fast you want to be below 90 essentially is the number below 100 below 90 is what they'll say no I know but from a from a teaspoon perspective yeah that's why I have no idea I don't know I've never heard that before yeah so it makes now he knows his shit so I'm not going to question it because that's what he does yeah yeah but so I have no doubt that it's accurate right but that's crazy you know just a teaspoon of sugar in your blood yeah that's crazy perspective with yeah that's crazy I know when you use that number Doug when they measure your blood sugar where they what's the what is the unit it's like 90 or 100 but what is it measuring is it can you look it up look up blood sugar readings and then see what it's like is it per like what's what are the what are the nails not nano liters is that what it is uh nano see what it says I don't want to say anything that's done let me do that okay I'll just throw out random shit so we got millimoles per liter or milligrams per deciliter milligrams per okay so I have no idea what that means exactly okay so it says here a blood sugar level less than 140 is normal a rate a reading of more than 200 after two out after two hours means you have diabetes um I mean that's only that's a so it would be 60 milligrams per deciliter right is the difference between diabetes and what they say is normal although I think a little lower is probably I mean that's just such a small percentage yeah right yeah and what would 60 milligrams per deciliter look like or what would even 100 right milligrams per deciliter look like in the blood and that's probably where he got yeah fascinating was he on a podcast when it was he it was a clip on instagram oh yeah yeah that I heard him say that I'm so bummed that we reschedule him right so we were we were scheduled to see him in austin texas before we made the decision to go out to uh london and so I was actually really looking forward to me too yeah because people have been talking about him I actually didn't know about him until just a couple years ago I hadn't heard of him or didn't know what he was doing and somebody was they were actually challenging something where we're a little different is on our conversation around cardio yeah I mean he's pointing to good data oh yeah no and the it's one of those situations where like it happens to us many times when there's a really smart person that we like that communicates something different than we do when you get us in the same room and we start talking we still totally align the difference is this I'll tell you right away uh scientists look at data and research right trainers and coaches look at data and research behavior and how it yeah it how it's applied in the real world and with behaviors so the data may show that this works better but we may know that training lots of people and working with people like they're just not going to do that right so let's make sure we communicate the thing that's going to be most effective yeah you know that's that's the big that's the big difference yeah no I agree yeah anyway today's program giveaway maps split here's how you can win leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications if you win we'll let you know in the comment section we also have a sale right now on the most powerful muscle building program we offer maps anabolic advanced half off right now first time we've ever put it on sale if you're interested click on the link at the top of the description below all right back to the show along the lines of what we how we started this podcast though about being different so that you guys have to watch um the new Jake Paul yeah I'm told you know first of all I love uh it's probably one of my favorite series on Netflix I think Netflix you've talked about it before I feel like they're kind of like the 30 for 30 kind of the candy or processed food version of streaming services I think they just throw a lot of junk out there and people consume it um every once in a while they have something that I think is pretty damn good the untold series is like the 30 30 not quite yeah that level I wouldn't I wouldn't quite put 30 for 30 is like that's the primo oh yeah like incredible like uh journalism interview yeah I don't know what you would how you would categorize that compare and comparing them but I would say that Netflix's untold series of all these untold outland me the Caitlyn Jenner and they've done a bunch of other ones that were really really good stories and then the Jake Paul one popped up and I thought it was fascinating that they were even telling a story about him but you know shame on me that's because I know he's actually one of the highest paid athletes in the world yeah that's crazy and I don't know a whole lot about his background I tell you guys will gain respect for him and it doesn't mean that I'm a huge fan of him you're like him as a person yeah I like him as a person so before everybody gets all freaking defensive of me like oh he's a douche but okay whatever okay part of that is a character that he's strategically built so I mean that's clear yeah obviously like he like embraced being the heel uh early on and totally but and but when you find out but he has they have an interesting childhood and they're their their father is in the interview um also you know what we've been talking about for a long time about him coming after Dana White yeah dude there's a guy behind all that with him who was a part of the the building of the UFC oh and he has inside track on all their stuff like that and he doesn't do interviews with anybody else he did an interview on this Netflix series so he's been this behind the man scene for a really long time and this has been like a strategic plan uh from the get from the jump yeah Jake Jake Paul to disrupt the fight game they're not going away so remember when we were we talked right and I made the speculation that this is gonna this gonna stand stick around that was the plan well before I ever even said it or thought it was to disrupt the the fight game you know what it's interesting that I'm realizing about them is that and this is a smart strategy one of the smartest strategies I think you can make is for you to put something out in a way to where people underestimate you constantly because if they underestimate you constantly then you always surprise people and you can always come out on top versus like having these huge like over estimations then you can only you can only disappoint people and Jake Paul and his brother come across as douchey not smart or whatever but if you look at what they've done with their business you know who else did this very well like the Kardashians Kardashians come out they're like they're dumb they're stupid they're billionaires yeah you don't become a billionaire if you're stupid yeah I actually I was having this conversation with my with my kid I said I said if you gave a thousand because we're talking about billionaires and he's like oh yeah but you know they started out with a million dollars loan and this and that I said I said if I gave ten thousand people a hundred million dollars how many people how many of them do you think could turn that into a billion yeah zero yeah zero to go from a hundred million to a billion zero people out of ten thousand will be able to do that's how hard it is yeah how rare how rare it's easier to go from zero to ten million you know and there's there's a bunch of people that are probably shaking their head right now thinking you're ridiculous but anybody who's ever scaled anything to some significant value understands the difficulty and the rarity of just doing that do you know how easy it is to go from zero to a million and how hard it is to go from a hundred million to two hundred million or three hundred million or a billion yeah people don't realize that it's actually if you look at the statistics and the data so those guys are they're smart they and they play the whole like underestimate me game really well yeah no they went out of nowhere the business you know at uh at 18 years old he bought a 7.5 million dollar mansion wow 18 wow that's how much they were balling that already yeah that was 18 I mean he's in his mid to late 20s now right or whatever I don't know where he is now was that all from youtube yeah wow well I mean yes and so they were like that so the word influencer came from them so they were the first kids to go viral he tells the story it's a really cool story not to spoil or like share too much about the go watch it it's worth it but he talks about when they first started giving advertising money to people on like youtube they were like the first and he goes I remember I got paid $500 for some I forgot what product it was to talk about with that and he was like oh my god and then somebody else called them and he said he's on the phone with his dad and he's like well what do we want just say say five thousand so he's like yeah that'll be five thousand I'm like okay and he's like what the fuck like blue they should ask for more yeah like oh my god they're gonna pay us five thousand dollars like it blew their mind this thing because they were just on this mission to gain popularity through you know vines and youtube video clips and stuff like that just early on and you know they were getting just a thousand video views and so that that was a huge deal wow you know it's another good series on did you start the cult series yet no I hate you I know it's like that was so for me that was made for you I'm on episode three right now okay so there's a series like how to start a cult I think it's yeah so what do they start with bro who are the ones that the Charles Manson they talk about heaven's gate they talk about oh I forgot his name I've watched all again Jim Jones I've watched all these cult like every single documentary you think of every cult like this is all new for me it's insane the power that people can have over others uh Charles Manson I mean I knew that story but then they go into more detail crazy fascinating how he took yeah like middle-class normal kids girls like normal yeah and turn them into murderers they actually went in and murdered for him because of the control that he had developed over they get into his use of psychedelics he did yeah that's actually the tipping point of him like really yeah because he was doing he was doing a lot of other manipulative stuff yeah that wasn't that crazy before and then the psychedelics and stuff like that really took him over Jim Jones wow because there's a book also Jim Jones same thing psychedelics took him over the edge yeah that's it that was a crazy story the Jim Jones one yeah I didn't know the full story I know Jim so I knew he built Jonestown yeah took all of his followers there yeah and then people couldn't escape because he was okay and then and then I didn't know this a California congressperson flew there yep because people were writing letters to go check it out and everything filmed with the film crew and everything everybody was acting normal yeah and then he got a little letter that said please help us escape he confronted Jim Jones and then some of the left on the way out Jim Jones had his people shot him machine gun everybody yep and killed a congressperson yep I thought it was I don't know why he's in Kool-Aid no yeah okay yeah well that happened later but yeah this was like when they started yeah kind of like really peer into what they're doing down there and then it was like this whole news uh like crew that went with them to like kind of film everything and then they laughed and then they literally opened fire on them dude as they're leaving a congressperson so the thing that I find interesting and you just touched on it was the psychedelic thing so it almost seems like you've got I mean and by the way the part that felt a little weird is like I think I recommend the book you know how to win friends and influence people to like everybody and that was a cult leader yeah it's like a cult leader like book like that is like the blue that's one of the top books one of the top books rented in prison wow this had a win had a win and influenced people by what's his name yeah Dale Carnegie yeah Dale Carnegie thank you well you know why because it's effective you can use it yeah right so you can use it to apply we can wield it for good or bad right so uh anyways what the thing that the common thread that I thought I saw was like these these guys gain all this this power and become great leaders great as in not good people but great as in like effective and then the psychedelic drugs come in and then that's when they go crazy and what I think is that knowing my experience with stuff like that is I think you become a little delusional on who you are and I think they start drinking their own kool-aid believing their shit that they've been selling to people to manipulate them for years then they go over the deep end and become think they're a messiah and shit yeah you guys know the the MK ultra CIA connection to all that yeah do they get in there no of course they don't know yeah there's yes tell me why Justin yeah there's a book on it it's called chaos and it kind of goes into that whole thing where like they um we're paying attention to to Manson and I mean I don't really know the whole background I haven't read the book or anything but I heard like there's a lot of like connections there of them being able to find him and like see how you know they actually like look and screen and find people that have that kind of charisma and then I'm pretty sure like he was part of the experiment oh yeah they definitely left that out well so all these guys all these cult leaders start out with being extremely narcissistic like to the to the you know unhealthy degree right because there's a level of narcissism that's healthy but it goes in the extreme where they really believe that they're so special um and then it gets amplified because then people start to buy their shit and so then it just confirms I am this chosen person I am special and then it just spirals out of control and it turns into something absolutely crazy that's where I think that the drug part kicks in is it seemed like the timeline on all these crazies was like they again they were kind of leading kind of manipulating it was like whatever but not doing anything crazy and then all of a sudden they get introduced to drugs and psychedelics and then all of a sudden start there was this one dude I forgot his name I can't remember his name I only saw half the episode but he was uh he wanted to be a dancer and a model he was born in Venezuela maybe Doug could look it up it was on uh how to start a cult maybe episode three uh the guys from Venezuela and he was a failed artist a failed you know actor he thought he was so good looking so then he went into porn failed at porn which is like how do you feel it failed it failed at porn then he started this like dammit jimmy it's a wrong hi me Gomez hi me Gomez then he started this like this like new age spiritual movement yeah and it was like he had like actors and artists and whatever become a part of his cult and then they built him this like amphitheater and they all had to do ballet and they all and as you're watching this you're like damn dude like at some point they completely lose like critical thinking yeah like I'm like I'm watching this like aren't you like this guy's making you all do ballet as part of his new age religion and you're all having to take care of him massage them all day like at what point isn't it weird even like the uh the hot yoga guy I was just thinking of him I definitely like him I remember telling somebody about that because they're ranting and raving about hot yoga and like trying to like again this is me like talking to parents and stuff and like gymnastics or whatever and like they have no idea just so goes he just meets people he goes into conspiracy theories man it's hot today it is it's like that hot yoga guy well dude if you're gonna sit there and try and convince me like they have no idea about like even what me being on the show and like talking about fitness in the lab just like I'm not gonna sit there and like proselytize to them about like what they should do but you know so I'm sitting there trying to listen to his uh advice to me and to do hot yoga and all this I'm like you should really look into uh the guy that started this whole thing it's really insightful you know there's documentaries about it uh it's just funny like but again you in any like sort of group setting you just kind of see how this like shapes evolves molds like some people that really take upon this this power position and you know inevitably how that kind of leads into a lot of uh sexual stuff like abuse it's always like dude it's just like especially if it's a male leader obviously it's just like it's so crazy that uh that this is like the the playbook and it's and it's repeated so what's great do you think that they they go into it like really wanting and seeking that or do you think over time they kind of drink their their kool-aid no so what's happened and this is a common theme in all of them is they they they believe to be special then they kind of get confirmed yeah and then at some point they realize that the that the means that the the means justify the ends right that's the right phrase right Doug means justify the ends where they'll get their most ardent supporters yeah the ends just the ends excuse me the ends justify the first sorry and you guys said that wrong they get their most ardent supporters to help them fake things because they're like it's worth it because it's this cause that we have so in other words there was a guy who did the faith healing and he did work for some reason on a couple people which is probably just them getting excited but then it didn't work on other people so then he would get his most ardent supporters to come in and they would take it for and they come up and he'd tell him you have lung cancer and they'd be like oh my god and then he cured them and they'd cough up like a tumor but it was like they already had in the mouth they had a chicken boat so they're playing along because they all feel like they're part like no no we got to do this to keep people because we'll save other people yeah like that guy Jaime whatever he would he would press on someone's forehead and then they would see a light while meditating he had a little flashlight in his fucking hand that his assistant would have yeah dude they would I saw the light it was real you know and they were helping them to trick all these people yeah it's crazy and at that at that point it's it's so interesting you go all the way through history and you look at magicians and like the whole thing is is to be able to like present this this somewhat mysterious like I can't explain it kind of a phenomenon so then you just like you get that hook and then and then it's like this is this is power now in your pocket and then you realize how you can like steer manipulate people just based off of like whether it's a trickery or whether it's like charisma or like whatever it is like you're gonna find that sort of button and it's just so interesting for me to see how groups of people can just be swayed and manipulated oh have you guys ever been in person and like experience something like that like hypnotism and anything that where you see like the whole group just get bought in like weird shit like that I mean I I grew up going to I mean there were some churches you said that yeah I mean we went to like I don't know eight nine different denominations as a kid right and my parents like bouncing from one to the next and we we were at this this charismatic church for which is like Pentecostal type of church which we've also done and I remember being a kid in like I saw you know what they call slain in the spirit where they throw like this purple towel or the head and then push them and then they fall over and start like shaking convulsions people would start speaking in tongues and someone on the other side of the church would translate what they were saying and you would see it all it was wild it was just weird group think and it was like I experienced that one time like we were part of this church for like two years of my life and so and now what were you thinking the whole time I knew was like that's what's so crazy when I was that little like I knew better I mean I watched it influence my parents my mom I heard my mom speaking tongues like like six months later like where did you think you have the gift now too like come on get out of here with that it was so obvious to me that it was bullshit and when you see it first I mean obviously that's what tainted and and disrupted my relationship with God and religion and everything like that was seeing that as a kid and being like same yeah this is crazy like you guys are crazy you know what's sad is that when it comes to this miraculous type things they happen every day it's just we we choose to ignore them or not acknowledge them like when you become a parent and you have children and everybody takes over granted because you know whatever there's there's there's a there's a miracle there's miraculous things that happen like the connection you have for your kid like if you really think about it like what is that coming from this is insane like this isn't this is stronger than anything I've ever could ever potentially comprehend like that's a miracle that people are looking for the weird radical you know crazy yeah or they want to believe that they can harness it themselves right there's this narcissistic drive to you know you know think that you were one of the chosen ones and in a in a in another way even though my mom or my family wasn't trying to get up there and be the pastors like there's a part of them that got up wanted to be so be a part of it so much that now all of a sudden they're doing it but I mean I think back and like as a kid you're scared confused you don't know what's going on as a doll I think back and I'm like oh my god how hilarious is that that this person like starts speaking I know or that someone over here translates I actually did experience this once I did I went years ago years ago this is when I was an atheist we went to his church like show and it was a it was like a before Easter or something like that and it was for all families it was a big-ass theater okay I'm not gonna say too much it's it's around here big-ass theater and it was a show to show the passions of Christ when he gets beat and whipped and whatever now remember this is like all family like little kids everybody yeah it was the most gory violent thing I've ever seen in my entire life really like yeah bro he's getting whipped and with the cat on nine tails and blood and his skin gives I mean it looked like real like they spent a lot of money like skin is tearing off his flesh and he's getting beaten and there's little kids there watching the milk Gibson and my kids were there and I look over at my kids and they're like it's like what are we watching I remember I covered their eyes yeah and we left and I got a huge argument with the people that brought us I'm like what makes you think this is okay to take a little kid to walk just because it really happened so did the holocaust so there's a lot of shit yeah this is inappropriate I said the only reason why this gets passed is because it's been cloaked in under oh god talk about like I was so mad about really confirming your atheism at that point right you did I bet it did it did push me the opposite in that direction I'm sure it did I'm sure it did it would do the same crazy I know I gotta ask you a question justin beyond yeah it's part of the reason why you're so interested in cult leaders and stuff in like their methods is it because of Adam and I I'm always keeping you guys in check you have a little bit of the gift on the along those lines I want to know at what point in our relationship because we go so far back did I finally did I pass the test right because that do you remember because there are a moment you're like oh he's he's on the he's a harsh critic I'm very skeptical he just barely started like in south we're on year eight it took me seven and a half years to get to like me I don't know it wasn't very long I mean it was probably a year you know like I just waited out like I work for you for a year brother that like you're on point you know I don't know that's the thing I'm always reading people that's what people don't understand like maybe I don't say a lot but I'm reading you know and I understand like that's true what you're doing like how you deal with people I watch you and that's true I mean like I don't say a lot but I'm I'm very observant and I'm listening and so it's like yeah I don't know I don't know why that is I think too because of our backgrounds and like being in a church setting and like all these things like I had nothing better to do and so I was just really interested in people and then I would look and see like who was on stage you know what kind of music they're playing like how people are reacting to it like throwing their hands up like and I was always like very interested in like why like why is that affecting them and then I would see that same sort of like delivery from somebody else like a politician or I'd see that same delivery from the teacher and so I was just kind of like connecting dots with that I just I don't know why I just have always been really interested in that and like to like how people perceive me you know and and I liked being very I guess more of like wallpaper if you will like sometimes yeah very unassuming like very much like you know so they could just be themselves in front of me yeah and so that way I'd know who you are oh yeah I think I think the wow I mean we're we're we're similar in that area right like I love to observe people and and I think the true test for me is that when the first opportunity that arises for them to do something that I know would even be hard for me to like pass on but they choose to do the right thing or the selfless yeah right that's always like the thing for me it's like I'm attracted to people that has have that charisma and have that leadership those leadership qualities and it's I'm observing and I'm watching then a moment will always come where what kind of choice are they gonna make yeah 100% right and and I know like oh that would be hard I know part of me I would be tempted to want to do that or what that and I so I know that's like one of those moments and then what will tip them over and as somebody I really like and respect is like they take the harder choice yeah they choose the harder path because it's the right path it's the selfless path and it's like oh okay that person has somebody who turns down money to do the right thing that's a big one for me yeah uh if somebody speaks poorly about other people yeah when they're not around yes so if I someone's talking and gossiping about someone else to me yeah uh then I know you're gonna do that about me right yeah or but on the flip side you know this is a great character this is a great uh when I see someone has a good character where they don't want to gossip but like well you know they're not here to defend themselves or you know I used to work for this person so uh I I don't necessarily want to say certain things because I respect them like when someone says that to me I'm like okay that's or they defend someone who you mutually don't like yes right so let's say we both agree that we don't listen but then they still come to the defense well you know maybe that we we don't know what he went through that day or we misinterpreted and is real mean like I like to give people the benefit so if you have that character too where you you have somebody you're with you mutually dislike somebody else but then you have the type of character where you'll still stand up for even someone you don't like totally right yeah no full disclosure Justin's my my grounding barometer for sure 100% 100% well I'm not I mean he's you're the most accurate yeah well I have to admit too I'm attracted to like charisma right just like anybody else and so it's like I and I think it's really just a self-check for me of like you know well you know what's their character you know and like can I can I like allow myself to be like drawn to that person or not you know because it's like it's it's a very powerful thing like some people are really good it's really good with their delivery and their articulation and and then you see everybody around them just like mesmerized you know and I just to me it's it's I tried not to get mesmerized but then I understand like I'm like oh there's a there's a pull there and like why is that okay so here's here's a test of your how your level of self-awareness now if you know that about yourself well when we all agree that that this is a strength I'm a firm believer in your greatest strength is your greatest weakness yeah and so where does this bite you in the ass because of like you have this ability and you're really good at it where does it hold you back sometimes ooh yeah I guess I'm not speaking my mind right away I think that's one thing is like I hold on to opinions and thoughts which is taking me a long time to develop opinions I'll be honest yeah I haven't been able to articulate express myself for years and and it's only now like through the podcast it's really bringing it out but uh I had a lot to say that I didn't say and uh that's been like a real Achilles heel for me uh because then I don't get what I want is that why you're angry all the time it's good self-awareness right like it's easy for us like to know and point out the things that like oh yeah I know I'm good at that everyone's told me I'm good at that it's served me speaking of Justin anger and all that can I bring up can I talk about I'm using that for commercial no no yes can I talk about it oh I don't care it was funny dude so can I talk about it stupid but yeah okay here's why I want to talk about it because of the way that uh I guess we support each other it's kind of a guy thing but it's hilarious to me so just there was a a fury commercial that's out and it's Justin talking about you know the the shirt he likes from there or whatever and some douchebag comment or something like uh well it fits him because or it fits me because I work out unlike that guy like talking shit yeah so Justin sends us a screenshot he's like this asshole or something like that right yeah so now you know normally when you support someone you say things like no you look good man you fit whatever dude you're a strong guy uh you're a buff guy don't worry about this what did I say man fat people are so sensitive and he was so happy I said that I was dying I was like yeah it's stupid because if I did the opposite you would have been really upset if I was like it's alright Justin you're fine it's just so funny isn't that the irony though it's always like when you're a bad mood like you have like things going on that you're like oh there's friction like I'm just sitting there kind of stewing over like other stuff and then you know that pops up it's like one comment and it's just like literally like talking shit it's so true though like on the heels of the other conversation we had people would never say that in the real world with that fool would never say it to my face nobody would say that never did well we're all so down I mean there was a part there was a time in this journey of like building this thing that I actually thought man are we gonna get so lucky that we build this big thing and it like and we don't really get a lot of hate like is that like everybody else I know that it's like huge like they have almost as much hate as they have like equal parts yeah and I mean and the confirmation of that is like watching the Jake Paul thing and I mean boy they're hated as much as their love you know I'm saying like we can almost no hate we don't and it's and it's really yeah more recent than than I haven't a long time and I just think that's still so tiny it is it's so tiny I can remember which is why I always like when those moments happen I try and like calm the fuck down like it's inevitable you know I'm saying you're reaching millions of people like you're gonna you're not gonna they're all gonna like you the likelihood of you I mean think about I the biggest perspective I ever had was when I was in that arena when we were first coming up and I remember we had just seen the stat this was back when we were only getting like 60,000 downloads an episode which was like a huge milestone obviously back then and I was like dude that is like two of these basketball arenas like all in here the likelihood that all of those people are listening to me and all of them like me like no it's so not likely that's impossible right there's gotta be a lot of them in your favor and so you know and people were loud and that would never say something to you in person they're gonna they're gonna say shit online so it's like the end speaking of which uh interesting right we put up that clip yesterday was clip from our episode the one about going to war and how fitness is being realized and all that and it's flying right it's it's definitely striking a nerve what's weird is the comments underneath it uh all overwhelmingly positive there are a few negative comments all and all the negative comments from guys dudes from guys not depressing it's sad because fitness like good health is being attacked yeah men in particular are being attacked with this message because it's it's about being toxic masculinity it's about you know uh you know muscles or douchey strength is whatever men need to be and it's funny that that there was like a few guys on there that were giving us a little negativity or whatever don't go political it's like stop political they stepped into our space they started demonizing fitness that's when we speak up we're trying to point out that like this is wrong like this is a wrong message this is not something that people need to hear or receive and so it's like we're gonna say something about it but and that's not out of fear and I somebody's made a comment about uh you know paid attention all these scenes of being in fear not in fear it's confronting it yes there's you have to confront it otherwise it persists with better information with better information and and in the three speeches about all the women female uh people commenting overwhelmingly positive and I thought about that I said this is interesting because the clip itself is almost catering more or aim more towards men on accident but it kind of is right yeah you have all these female commenters who are hyper positive and a few guys that weren't I'm like why is that that's kind of weird interesting thing and then I realized I think women are super really sick and tired of weak men yeah I do I don't blame I think women are the ones that are sitting back going okay this is this is not cool that's not the kind of guy I want I don't want my sons grow up this way definitely not attractive no and they were they were the ones that were most positive it's really wild yeah I mean I think the dudes were some of them are like the snakey what is it we call them cuttlefish cuttlefish yeah well they think they're going to come out virtuous I don't know I keep waiting for people to use as a hashtag well I oh I you know just out of curiosity I always click on bios I just want to see you know why is it who is this yeah who is this person right and the the two thing and this again this is pure observation this is not me like making shit up like literally go look for yourself 80% of the guys that made those comments private profiles with a he-him in their bio pronouns or anything yeah pronouns in there in the just crazy that yeah those were the people those are the guys that had a problem with that message all the rest were on board with it and most all if maybe I think I saw maybe one or two girls and even the two girls that made comments on it it weren't we weren't necessarily negative they thought I don't really see much of that it was like that it wasn't like this is stupid I think you have only these these dudes it's so interesting to me because obviously social media does this you are um celebrated for your like your either opinions or what you say is good or wrong not for what you actually do because nobody can see what you do so it's all about what you say you do or what you say you care about right that's what it's the term virtue signaling comes from it reminds I was thinking about this the other day do you know who wears t-shirts that say I do jujitsu I'm a fighter or I live you know when people first start when they first start training they're the ones that want to show everybody you know wave the flag to everybody the guys and girls that have been training for years they don't wear shirts that say that shit they don't care about that kind of stuff so it's almost like it's this insecure like let me put this out people are secure and confident they don't need to proclaim it so often well I also find it interesting that you talking about all that stuff and making a stand of this is wrong and and the importance of health how there was a good majority of those people that spoke up that made it a political thing it's like if you didn't you didn't mention democrat republican conservative progressive you didn't use any language like that whatsoever it's not a political thing no it's not at all it's a health thing and it's somebody it's people making a really bad observation around exercise and working out and lifting weights and it's us coming to the defense of that and saying no we're not going to let you spread bullshit like this this is really how it affects people this is really how powerful this is really how good it is and somehow that message is is political listen we didn't start the war it's a war on health is what's happening right now we're just now speaking out we're defending we're defending it um that's that's really what it's what it's all about it's like listen you now are stepping into our space we've been trying to help people the right way for decades you're you're you're an idiot if you think i'm going to sit here and not say anything and if you get closer it's not just going to be my words you jump in our sandbox and kick kickstand in our face well that's where we're at now I was actually watching a documentary too and it was uh actually on youtube I believe but it was about like east bay punk and how the whole scene kind of started up and so you guys are familiar with green day and rancid and you know a lot of those like bigger name bands but it kind of got through a lot of like these other like underground bands and then how this one place in the east bay was this sort of like haven for kids that like were just you know off-ball kids they had nowhere to go and they just like the owner was part of like operation ivy which was a big band in back in the day and wanted to create a venue so like these kids could go it was all ages like because punk was not accessible to younger kids it was always just like 21 and over and then it kind of bars bars and it became one of these things where it became like uh uh more aggressive more violent so you'd get like a whole skinhead kind of movement behind it and you know these skinheads were like a real problem and and so this place became sort of like you know it was there's no racism there's no you know sex isn't like you know like if you're uh gay you're whatever like it's this is like your your safe place and it was like you know all these kids were just hanging out and that you know the weird kids the freaks whatever and uh you know it was a cool place it was like its own little oasis was it all and I was all connected through music it is all connected for the music and it created this really cool it fostered a really cool like environment for creativity and so this is where like you know Green Day and all they kind of merged out of this one club uh and so you know why I bring this up is because like there was there was like they were getting attacked by like these these other like skinhead groups that were like and this is in the Bay Area so people think like it's super because you know Berkeley is very liberal it's very like you know uh it brought in a lot of like hippy you know kind of thoughts and all and so you know all that like if you go a little further across the the bay there's like some some pocket areas where there's like Hillbilly and like rural like you know racist skinhead like communities uh and so they would they would attack and bash and and you know bash people beat them up and and all this stuff and they go to these shows and beat them up and like drive these trucks and beat and so this is like a real problem so they actually like drove uh two they found this this place and they were like they started to come and and sit in on all these shows and and just like they're just tyrants you know they're coming in and like you know beating up kids and all this stuff and so they just decided like they were going to fight back and so they fought back and and you know beat their asses and and then they they laughed and they stopped messing with them but it's just like you you gotta hold you get if it's something that's like you hold sacred right like I look at this as a gym right this is like it's it's all inclusive like everybody's welcome everybody's trying to to grow and improve uh and you know and there's and it's getting attacked now like this is how I how I look at it and it's like totally it's for it to be able to foster and grow and be a a positive force it's like you gotta push off all this native bullshit listen if you don't if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything right so it's it's more about standing up than it is attacking or putting down by the way to cover it just to touch on the why some people are saying it's political it's because the tactics that are being used some of the tactics I should say that are being used to demonize fitness are to attach it to uh very unsavory uh verbiage or groups so when you say white supremacists for example uh like everybody's like I hate that I don't want to be a part of that right so that's why you'll see articles that'll say tied to white supremacists far right extremists far right extremists in uh I guess in in society is more people are like oh I don't want to be a part of that versus far left if I say far left a lot of people like what's that but if I say far right extremists everybody's like skinheads supremacists so what they're doing so what they're doing with with fitness is they're put publishing articles and just using verbiage that where people would just read the headline and get turned off right away so that's why some people are associated with politics because it says far right extremists more than it would say let's say far left's extremists or something else right that's that's the whole reason anyway speaking of kids uh I had to go on my butcher box and triple my order of the gluten-free nuggets because I'm eating them all I'm eating all the gluten-free are you are you did you order me yeah yeah no I love them I mean of course you guys knew that do most chicken nuggets full of gluten is that like breaded they all are yeah breaded so what are they're what are they using to not be breaded you know I think it's probably rice flour corn flour yeah but they're like crispy and they're good oh they're they're better than any other chicken so I'm like I'm a grown man and not to make fun of Justin but I don't eat nuggets by the way that's fake we made that story of Justin is eating nuggets dude I love I own it yeah I own the cheese I own the nuggets like I have like literally whatever we're working on a deal right now with having elementary school kid diet preference you've never full on say you've never ordered boxes you've never ordered chicken nuggets when we've gone out to eat we just created that and it just became a thing but anyway I would prefer that to sushi so that's true but anyway I've never like I haven't had like just like nuggets as a meal yeah it's as an adult forever that's what I'm doing with these I actually haven't done that and I'm only like 15 of them yeah and it's like protein it's really good and it's and gluten-free so well they just bumped our box size up so I might have to do the same thing because yeah yeah because right now I get yelled at from Katrina if I eat that's his staple like meal for him he eats those chicken nuggets on the rail or it's like his favorite thing dude speaking of like because you talk about gluten and and maybe think about gut health and stuff bro this is how big of a deal and people who who who dealt with this understand but people who've never dealt with this don't get this it's such a big deal gut health is such a big deal and makes such a huge impact on on your body's performance and health and muscle and fat loss like it's insane so I deal with gut issues on and off for years and years and years decades and I treated myself for SIBO effectively which got me about 85% of the way there so my gut got back to about 85% of normal which was huge for me you guys know this for the first six years of the podcast it was always a continual struggle I couldn't eat more than a certain amount couldn't eat certain foods if I in my gut would go off it would last weeks there's this terrible back and forth battle fix the SIBO got me about 85% of the way there but then I would always get this kind of reoccurring would have to treat myself again and then we had I can't remember who we had on the show it was Gwyneth Peltrow's functional medicine practice I feel so bad maybe Doug can find his name we had him on the show great guy love him I feel embarrassed I forgot his name so we'll get it and he said that when you fix SIBO you have to wait afterwards to allow your gut to heal because the SIBO is gone but you have a mucosa lining in the gut you have the gut wall itself that's still probably inflamed so it's like okay you took out the the stick out of your leg you're not cured you have to wait for the everything to heal and that's why you know you end up getting SIBO again and that's why maybe you're not a hundred percent yet or what's the doctor will call there you go thank you so much great guy love his content so anyway so that was like oh shit that really hit home once I effectively treat SIBO if it comes back I really need to look at like how I can heal my gut and part of that is don't go too crazy with the food treat myself like I did when I had SIBO the other part of it was I went on oral bpc 157 kpv so this is these are peptides and this is the pill form pill form yeah so when you take oral bpc 157 it helps speed up the regeneration healing of the gut just like it does when you inject it into a an injury okay kpv it works differently but similarly in the sense that it speeds up healing it also has some antimicrobial effects okay wouldn't you get the kpv and why didn't she pass that to me no it's combined in the pill it's in it okay didn't you get it yeah yeah I didn't know that was in there if you know me I mean they didn't change the name there's a weird three pios in there as well so anyway I've been taking it right didn't notice much about a week into it I think I'm noticing something about I think I'm like 30 or 40 days in yeah I'm like okay like 95 percent normal like I mean my gut it's weird like I don't it's almost like it was oh not quite but almost like it was before the shit at the fan wow my gut health and now what's the result of that I'm absorbing what I'm eating I'm literally like I feel anabolic like I haven't felt in years and years and years why because I could push the calories and I don't hurt myself I don't get bloated I don't get anything wild right that's excited I know you know you you touch on something I think it's such an important thing to I just want to pick you back off of it because I've seen this happen with many clients with family and friends that have struggled with like gut health and they do exactly what you said where they they get some so they go to a functional functional practitioner they get like oh you need to stay away from these foods or whatever and then they eliminate the foods they do start feeling better so then they reintroduce and then and they get away with it right they reintroduce and it's like oh my god I can have a skin and then they do it two or three times and then it goes back to like abusing it or having it in their diet all the time and then it comes back and then they chalk it up is that didn't work no and it's like soon no like yes it did or yes it was you know I'm saying but you can't it's not a it's not a green light for you to come back and like let it back into your diet every day again no it's like walking it's like walking around with the rock in your shoe so your foot gets cut and you're bleeding then you take your shoe off you take the rock out and you're like wow I feel so much better so now I'm gonna go running but the the wound never fully healed yeah so you're not allowing yourself to you took the problem out but you didn't actually let yourself heal that's the part that was mind-blowing for me when I first when I heard Dr. Will Cole say that and then the the BPC and the KPV combo speeds that up yeah it's what's happening like this 30 days later and I'm like this is weird I haven't I haven't felt like this in 15 years at least yeah wow yeah I'm gonna keep going hope to get there because yeah I've just been going through the treatment too like the SIBO stuff so just started and then I want to treat you know the problem and then you know I'm also in conjunction with that doing the BPC that's awesome speaking of inflammatory stuff you were telling me about Courtney's mom using med I was yeah what was that for so she was having trouble sleeping and so she's she actually had melanoma cancer and had treatments for that and it at night she was getting these really bad muscle cramps like and so it kept waking her up and was like she asked Courtney if we had anything to help with sleep or anything with that and so I gave I gave her her the the ned sleep and then also like the 1500 milligram ned CBD was it the capsules or was it the oil it was the capsules yeah and so it and also like the mellow as well but she she just started with the sleep and it was just like oh my god I didn't I didn't get up once like she was able to sleep to the night and then continue this and then it's just been really helpful and restorative for her to to be able to get sleep finally and start healing so yeah that was great you do the capsules now over the dropper huh you don't it's the same thing it's just easier you don't taste it because the oil you put it under your tongue you taste it yeah I think that under the tongue would be faster now because of supposedly I haven't noticed a difference I know I'm not now Jessica okay Jessica likes the oil better she says it works better for her but I just do the capsules I really ever since the mellow ended up working so well for me I rarely ever use the ned sleep you had a magnesium deficiency for sure 100 percent I mean it's like it's like night and day and I of course I'm terrible about being consistent like you are with any supplement no matter how bad I need it or not and because I have streaks of inconsistency with taking it and and then getting back it's like always so obvious to me it's like oh my god like I have to do this like I have to I'm definitely deficient in magnesium and it for sure shows up in how well I sleep that's yeah it's unbelievable awesome all right so today's shout out let's do Peter Atea uh since I talked about him earlier so it's you find him on instagram at peter atia md uh one of the smartest people um in the space when it comes to great information does he have his own podcasts or does he just do other shows I know he was on Joe Rogan I've only seen him on other podcasts I believe he has his own okay interviewer or an interviewee quite a bit being fit and muscular is kind of cool but you know when it sucks when you want to buy nice clothes they never fit properly well that is until now there's a company called state and liberty that makes tailored feeling suits and shirts and pants for people with muscle in fact I'm wearing one of the shirts right now uh off the rack I have suits off the rack that fit me beautifully so it's made for guys wide shoulders and small weights and big arms basically if you're fit and muscular and you want to look nice go to this company it will fit you the best state and liberty go to mpstateandliberty.com and uh on that link you'll get 10 off all right back to the show our first caller is jesse from new hampshire jesse what's going on man how can we help you what's up going on fellas not much dude all right um so i'm just gonna jump right into it um i'm currently on phase three of maps anabolic um by the way it's a great program i love it uh it was a little hesitant at first but i've really gotten into it it's been awesome um so my question is i was planning on going to symmetry next um but the more i listen to you guys the more i really learn that you wrote them in order i don't know if it's like a dead set order that you have to run it or you know the way that it goes i've only been um working out since october of 2022 so i'm relatively new to the whole gym lifestyle and all that kind of stuff but um yeah jesse you're kind of young did you ever watch the original ghostbusters yeah you remember when they like don't cross the streams you're gonna blow up the whole world right you do the wrong order it's gonna go you're gonna go backward and i'm just kidding listen the order you're gonna do is perfectly fine we did write them in a particular order um but really it's about which one's appropriate for your body so there's not necessarily in order uh that everybody should run now if you're kind of like relatively new to strength training you know a good uh a good order would be like maps anabolic maps performance maps aesthetic then you can follow you know anything after that but really symmetry could be added anywhere yeah and following anabolic is going to be amazing and and there isn't specifically in order except for kind of where you start and what's appropriate for your body so i'm glad you asked that question because new listeners might get that impression as well i love symmetry after a maps anabolic and for where you're at in your journey i honestly to just to piggyback on myself said that that's the one program that really wasn't like thought of like that it was like this really could be inserted as somebody's first program or in the middle of any program the the anabolic bridges anywhere yeah the anabolic performance and aesthetic were written with the intent of people following those three in that order but symmetry can be inserted anywhere including very first or in between programs and you're only going to gain benefit from doing that but again to be clear if maps uh you know aesthetic was appropriate for you with your current fitness level would you would be there be anything wrong with going maps aesthetic and then mass performance and maps anabolic which would be no and i'm just saying that for everybody else listening right now getting started is much more important than the order in terms of like what's appropriate um is you know is the program appropriate for you is the right question but symmetry is great for most people you're gonna you're gonna love it if you had great results with anabolic let me what were your results with anabolic by the way you said you loved it what did you see from it um like my traps blew up my biceps definitely got bigger um overall strength in general um i kind of before i i picked up anabolic i was doing a lot of five by five so i was really focusing on just you know bench um squats overhead press and it wasn't until kind of adam drove home he's like deadlip do deadlip do deadlip was this something i always shied away from just because you know i didn't i didn't know how to properly do it and then i started doing that so that's definitely like one of my favorites now so awesome yeah i was just hammering the uh the five by fives for the most part yeah i so symmetry is going to be great and then after that um if you want to go into a different program you could either go maps performance if you want better function or if you love the strength route power lift or strong would be great after symmetry but symmetry is a great place to go next okay i just didn't know if it would be um like where i'm at uh just being new to it should i like go to symmetry and kind of shy away from you know um working on because a lot of what i've been doing is trying to work on my my form um so i'm not like really lifting crazy heavy or anything like that i'm just trying to make sure that i'm doing it properly and trying to nail that down before i move on yeah no matter what you should always think that way regardless uh but you'd be fine going into any program that's appropriate the ones that would probably be harder to that that may be more likely to be inappropriate would be the high high volume type programs that we have aesthetic split um yeah ped especially those are the programs people always go to first because they think for some reason that that's going to do the best thing but those are the ones that people can over train in most often because the high volume but i mean if you can handle the volume your body if it's appropriate for you those are great as well but i think symmetry and then after that you could do power lift strong performance either one of those would be amazing afterwards do you have symmetry by the way i do i do okay you're good what do you want to follow after that i want to give you something um i don't know to be honest like i haven't really looked into uh to all of your program so i don't know what a lot of them entail but like i would like to actually start like you know lifting heavy and start moving the weight up a little bit so whatever you just that mass power lift will send that to you so after symmetry go for that awesome awesome that's great man you got it man thanks for calling in brother oh hold on i got um second go for it go for it sorry all right so the second part is uh with my my diet and like my intake or whatever and i've listened to you guys very very specifically on you know what what is important you know what i mean like protein intake um and just getting calories like not leaving them super low but getting them up to you know a point that's what do you call it reverse dieting and then you can bring it back um so i've been kind of i've been struggling with that from what i have tracked i've been around like 2300 calories and like 150 grams of protein where i should be closer to about 2800 calories and like 180 grams of protein somewhere around there i'm just struggling to really get to that point because um i don't know work works kind of crazy and can be all over the place from time to time so i can't always just you know meal prep everything work and late getting home and all that kind of stuff so i just looking for any tips on that you're a perfect person that would uh i don't know if you've been following long enough i used to post this recipe for a shake and i know it's been in our form too uh and here's an example of like how i like to use protein shakes right you know you need to be you need additional calories you know you need a little bit more protein it's hard scheduling wise meal prepping wise uh and so at the end of the night i make myself like a you know peanut butter banana protein shake that i blend on ice and it's like a milkshake and so that's like my last thing that i eat before i go to bed so that's an example of where i would utilize a shake is with someone like now if you're getting two of your meals already from shakes or bars to get your 150 grams then i might not go that direction but if you're getting 150 grams of protein mostly through whole foods right now then i would just add a shake in the evening like that and that will hit your target yep okay so that would be like you're saying the appropriate time where to you know to throw a shake in there yeah totally sure this is how i like so my goal okay the way i communicate protein shakes and bars to clients is it is not ideal i always want to start i want to go after whole foods that's my goal but the reality is there's times where i have a day like you're you you seem to be having which is i know i'm short on protein i know i can handle more calories right now it's the end of the day i don't feel like making a big old meal or defrosting chicken or doing something like that right now and so i'll blend myself a you know banana peanut butter way smoothie on ice and in the night like that like that's a that's a great way in my opinion to utilize protein shakes now again i go back the next day and i'm like all right my goal is to hit that 180 190 through whole foods and again if i miss it then i'm using that protein shake but then other days where i'm like oh cool i hit it i don't need it today so that's how i would approach can you have dairy jesse yeah oh have you seen have you tried magic spoon cereal or that yeah yeah because of you guys i got magic spoon i got creatures i have it you guys and sell it those are both super convenient yeah great yeah that's that's actually the other thing i would do either a magic spoon bowl of cereal which i love to have at night that's i'd never eat magic spoon cereal for breakfast it's always my late night snack to hit my protein intake that's literally how i use it okay yeah because like breakfast is odd like i know where i'm missing um just because i the time i go to work like i i'm not gonna wake up like super super early to you know make eggs and bacon and like you know do the whole nine so i'm just kind of skimping by on breakfast um and really more focusing on you know lunch and dinner is a big one well so okay so creatures of habit in the morning that's why you can do creatures of habit then because here's the thing too though when i have somebody who's low on protein that's normally what happens is they have a light protein breakfast which again is this is part of why we partnered with creatures of habit and love that as a as getting you at least started at least 30 something grams of protein now the again let's go like that's uh the default or whatever but the ideal would be i don't know what you had for dinner last night but whatever meat you had i would say for the morning and i would literally just throw three eggs in it in the skillet real quick and yeah not even 10 minutes literally whatever it takes us to scramble up three eggs with all that meat and then i literally just eat it like that or wrap it in a tortilla or or a piece of bread and i eat it that would be like a staple breakfast for me that doesn't take a lot of time that's super high in protein and it was convenient because i just used the leftovers from the night before dinner if you can't do that that is a lot of work and it's not realistic then creatures of habit would be the second but if you don't get at least 30 to 50 grams in that first meal it's really tough you're playing catchable yeah to to hit the your target so that would be my advice all right because that's basically what i'm doing okay i mean i'm just playing catch up all day trying to pack it in all at the end of the day when i get out of work so i'm definitely going to take that advice and run with it excellent all right jesse thank you man hey thanks fellas i appreciate it you got it all right yeah i'm glad he went a little deeper that's almost always the issue yeah is that they they start really focusing on eating like 11 or 12 by that point now you're behind the apel but if you start out with a good calorie good protein breakfast loaded up early oh yeah i mean there you go you're yourself yeah if you're a meat eater and you like your most your meals are sitting around steak chicken you make extra yeah you just i mean i i don't know we've done i've done that most of my my adult life where i just yeah well make enough to where there's you know i can make two or three meals the next day off of it and you just adding rice or eggs to like a you know a meal that you had for dinner like oh it's a great way to make a complete meal yeah boom yeah easy our next caller is megan from missouri hi megan how can we help you all right how are you guys good how are you happy good i have been listening to you all since 2016 so this is this is wow wow molly thank you you made yeah thanks for having me on well i so in the heart of my question is am i ready for maps anabolic advanced and i'll give you some insight as why i'm asking that so i've been lifting consistently since we're well for like eight years i'm tracking my macros all that good stuff i ran anabolic twice i ran aesthetic i ran performance so i'm really well versed in your programs as well um about two years ago i made a really dramatic career change so i had been working in pharmaceutical sales for about a decade really flexible schedule i could concentrate on my fitness and all that good stuff um but corporate america was kind of sucking my soul dry i decided to become a teacher and so i went into the classroom for two years um but in order to support myself on a teacher salary i was actually working like two to three part-time jobs on top of teaching full-time so my sleep dramatically decreased my stress dramatically increased um i just didn't have as much time to dedicate to what i loved in fitness and all that good stuff just you know life priorities um so with that i was still lifting consistently three days a week full body but like my strength kind of tanked um i know i wasn't hitting my protein as as well as i had been in the past all that good stuff um so in may i decided to actually transition out of the classroom i'm now working for a curriculum company so it's um it's totally remote work from home much more flexible with my schedule um so when i made that transition like i really want to get my fitness back i want to get my strength back and kind of get my body composition to where it had been in the past um so i decided to run maps 15 the advanced version and i just finished that sunday i loved it i ran it in just like a slight deficit and actually gained strength in the gym so it was it was awesome um so my question that is now am i ready for something like maps anabolic advanced like something with that kind of novelty is that what like i need in my fitness journey to kind of get myself out of my old strong self wow what a great question and thank you so much for the background so okay so before before the stressful change and the lack of sleep and you followed aesthetic and anabolic how was your progress then compared to how you're doing now let's compare not i'm talking about before you made the switch and you had to like stop working out as much and all that stuff so when you were following all those other programs how was that versus how you are now um i would still say i was stronger back then um i had run like several reverse diets and also cuts and i'd gotten my metabolism for i was like maintaining on at least 2000 calories and like you know squatting i think my highest spot at that point was like 150 160 um so pretty strong so i'm not quite there yet okay yeah no the reason why i'm asking is because uh i don't a lot of people who work out consistently make the mistake of going as far as their body were tolerate which is beyond what's ideal okay so that's why i wanted to ask you that question it's probably going to be better for you to do a different program after maps 15 and then maybe going to anabolic advanced um yeah i would like to see you do something like performance or anabolic and then going to something like anabolic advanced or symmetry actually that's better that's a better option i think symmetry would be better yeah i like maps 15 symmetry and then anabolic advanced yeah that's great that's that's actually better go map symmetry and then go anabolic advanced but that's not to say you couldn't go to anabolic advance now just a smaller path you probably get better results if you did it when symmetry first though okay okay that makes sense that's awesome okay do you have symmetry i don't know all right we'll send that to you oh my gosh you guys are awesome yeah thank you yeah you got it no problem so do that and then after that go ahead anabolic advance and then uh give us a follow-up let us know how yeah i'd love to hear what you're doing after that yeah we'll do thank you so much that's so cool no appreciate you all thank you all right yeah take care bye yeah the problem with that is um so many people who've been trained for a long ass time if they all did maps out of all uh excuse me maps 15 the advanced version that i'll probably get better results anyway right because we tend to push it so hard so i asked that question and i'm wondering if even then yeah what a stark contrast that would be didn't she seem like a teacher yeah she probably a teacher right yeah medical sales but she's energy alone pharmaceutical so pharmaceutical so yeah she's definitely more of a teacher i feel like yeah she doesn't look like an evil lizard lizard person for the pharma companies i'm just waiting to go and sell it i would have done pharmaceutical sales i would i thought about doing something like that i say medical sales like a striker or something like that yeah yeah same here i make good money they do but after this after what happened i would have been like uh i don't want to do this anymore yeah no i think symmetry was is going to be perfect for you know for most people watching right now who are consistent oftentimes reducing volume gets your body to get better results and a program like symmetry is is appropriate for most people because most people don't train that way yeah and i think that we're we're always pushing the like okay so and i love that you pointed out that she could probably there's jump from 15 to advance and be okay but if she can do something with less volume uh and less intensity and get as good or more results that you would rather it's better yeah it's better to go with that which i think symmetry is that it is it gradually build that momentum yeah and then after that hit that so you can continue on but i will say when you do anabolic advanced if it's appropriate uh i mean this is just the feedback we've been getting like people's gains yeah borrow and people up oh ridiculous ridiculous it is that kind of a program our next caller is catherine from colorado hi catherine how can we help you um hey yeah so thanks for having me on um really cool to be on here um i'll just jump right in i'm gonna read my question um so i found you guys back in 2020 when all of us started i'm really grateful for everything that you've taught me i studied kinesiology and health science and just remember graduating hungry for more um and sorry i'm kind of nervous and since i found your podcast i feel like you guys have helped me grow in that passion and help me continue to learn so thank you you're welcome thank you um okay so i'll just jump right in i'm 28 years old i'm 5 foot 5 i've been lifting for 10 years and i currently left five days a week i do three light days and two upper body days i don't really do cardio except for some jump rope in between sets um i do yoga on my off days and i hike as much as i can but i don't do these for the purpose of cardio i just love being active um so since i quit birth control in 2016 i um i had amenorrhea um and i've had that since then um in september of 2020 i had some pretty severe hormonal symptoms that resulted in a 50 pound weight gain over five months so it's heat flashes vertigo migraines and depression um i was a really lean 120 pounds to begin with and i was 170 by the end of it um so i cut and reversed four times from early 2021 until fall of 2022 um with each reverse i gained more and more weight and with each cut i became more and more resistant to weight loss um i kept plateauing and never hit my goal so in um september of 2022 i started bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and i started a cut at the same time with a coach i lost only five pounds over the course of three months we dropped all the way down to 1350 um and i reversed to 1800 calories and gained another 10 pounds in four months at the 1800 calories so i was 183 at this point um so beginning at march of this year i started isempic my hormones are beginning to regulate but still not 100 percent i've lost about 25 pounds i'm 157 um but my calories are drastically low at 1200 i don't feel as lean and my arms is weight and my arms is in my waist as i was at this weight last time my goal weight is 150 to 155 and to stay there during the reverse i don't want to stop wasn't big yet i want to lose the weight finally but i'm very afraid of what the reverse is going to look like and what the damage could be from dropping so low in calories um so considering everything that's going already going on um what would be the best way to reverse and keep the weight off should i reverse well on it well on isempic um any advice on where to go from here yeah so before i answer your question i'm gonna tell you what i think you should do and then i'll answer your question but uh actually you were you stopped birth control 2016 how long were you on it for up until that point um i want to say probably four or five years okay which what were you what were you taking uh the pill i i don't really i think i switched brands like several times okay so it was it might have contributed to what's going on but it might have masked something that developed uh while you were on the hormones that now you're starting to have to kind of deal with um my advice to you before i answer your question because i know that's what you want the answer to but my advice to you is just to not focus on the scale and not focus on any goals in terms of fat loss or gain or body sculpting at your age i would work with a functional medicine practitioner to get to the root cause and i say at your age because uh this is very solvable if you do this the right way if you don't and if you keep pushing weight gain weight loss let me try bioidenticals let me throw some peptides at myself without figuring out the root cause this is going to get harder and harder as you get older i don't think you're going to solve your problem in other words with the path that you're currently on i think a functional medicine practitioner is going to be your best bet for figuring out the root cause of what's happening and it may be as simple as uh you know a gut issue you know gut health poor gut health can cause tremendous uh havoc with the hormones and inflammation and the body and oftentimes goes goes mass oftentimes masked with hormone therapy and sometimes people don't even have gastro uh symptoms sometimes they feel like oh my everything else is okay maybe it isn't gut issue so and i'm just i'm just wanting to that might not be even be it but i think the best person to get to the root cause of what's going on is going to be some somebody like that and i don't think you should focus on gaining or losing weight because that's going to keep you away from figuring out the root root issue yeah i 100 agree and i wanted to address the feeling that you have of why you feel like you don't look the way you did when you were this way before and this is the drawback of things like ozympic or cutting calories like this is that you lost as much if not more muscle when you did when you cut so the weight came down but you probably lost an equal amount of muscle as you did body fat and or potentially more uh of the muscle on the way down because of how low the calories and you're just not supporting uh the muscle that you do have on your body with enough calories and nutrients primarily protein and so you're going to run into this vicious cycle uh if you don't address what sal saying so my my recognition are you not in the form the mp hormones uh the excuse me uh mp holistic mp holistic health forum it's free um i think i'm in the minecraft hormones one but i don't know if i'm in the holistic health one yeah get in the holistic health one uh that's dr cabral and their team it's free it's free also are you now you have a coach right now that's helping you with your diet and all that stuff um i currently don't have a coach but i i am seeing a functional medicine practitioner there you are yeah so she actually is the one who put me on ozympic she um so she found cibo um she found that i had mold in my system so we rid of the mold we got rid of um the cibo for the most part it does kind of tend to come back but we've i've gotten better at better kind of tackling that um so that was definitely part of the problem um and then yeah she's the one who put me on the ozympic she um thinks it could be pc os or maybe like a combination of things or maybe the birth control um i have seen like six or seven doctors since all of this started um and she's the only one who has like i feel like i feel like because it really helped me but i still don't really know what's going on well so so because it can take a while right you can solve some of the issues but then your body has to heal so um you solve the cibo issue you got tested again and the cibo's gone or do you or is it still because sometimes it could take a while to to deal with that yeah um i think it was gone for a little bit i never really like retested it but like i knew at some point that i was like okay it's gone and then i kind of get a feeling i'm like okay it's coming back so she will put me on an antibiotic and then we'll just kind of um go from there is she using herbals or antibiotics antibiotics i i prefer the herbal method um so i do try and like when when it comes back i try and go that rap first but sometimes that's not always 100 effective with all the stuff i got yeah they can they can work with antibiotics too okay so and then what about um the mold have you gotten retested for the mold toxicity that's completely gone it is okay so there's a detox issue that's going on in your body it sounds like and you know this person has probably identified that and if you're working with them i would not focus on weight gain or weight loss i would work on being totally healthy that's what's going to get you where you want by the way so i would continue to focus on that um i would not worry too much about you know cutting and gaining and bulking i would feed my body appropriately eat when i'm hungry eat whole natural foods let my body settle wherever it's at but you probably have a period of healing that you got to go through since you've now that you've gotten rid so here's what happens a lot of times people have mold or they'll have sebo they'll get rid of it and they're like cool i can jump right back into you know what i was doing before what i want to do no no now you have to heal now there's a period of healing and what happens is and this is why sebo is so often reoccurring is that people get rid of the sebo don't allow things like the mucosa lining to heal don't allow the inflammation to go away don't allow the junctions between the the cells of the gut to kind of repair then they go back to you know you know life is as it was and then the sebo comes back because of motility issues or whatever so you got to give yourself some time to heal i would give you like a year yeah that was deceptively long yes yeah so yeah i know i know that for sure yeah i would i would go for a full year and then if you need to get back on something for sebo see if you're functional medicine practitioner and now here's the deal some people just don't don't work herbals just don't work for them and they got to go the the pharmaceutical route so i would you know um i obviously don't know this person and you've been working with them but i'd say hey um you know i i just want to vote i just want to optimize my health for the next year i'm so i'm really i'm i'm like i'm stumped on why she went ozympic well it's the semi-glutide peptide right you're probably you're probably going through a compound pharmacy the you know the thing with the glp1 agonist is they're finding that it's helping people kind of rewire behaviors and this is why i think functional medicine practitioners are starting to work with things like that if you were not working with the functional medicine practitioner i would caution you against it but the fact that you're working with someone i just feel like if she's even gonna mess with a peptide it would be something like bpc 157 like the pill form for for helping her gut heal potentially but ozympic if she's if she's already low calorie and i'm trying to get her to eat more balanced and healthy stay away from the things that are upsetting your gut go after protein intake that's gonna help her build muscle speed or metabolism up i wouldn't think ozympic would be the route i was trying to build well you remember we talked when we talked to dr seeds uh he explained some of the pathways and how it works and it's much more than just right right right less and i think that's probably because you're going to see more functional practitioners work with uh things like it helps crack some of the behavioral issues yes uh so it can work with that is is the goal is the idea so i would follow their advice but i really katharine i would not focus on trying to cut or or or any kind of aesthetic goal i would focus on performance in the gym gets mobility and health and that's going to get you where you want to go and i would do it for a year even if you feel great you know four months like oh i feel so strong i want to whatever just be like no i'm going to get myself a year because it can take a while to heal i mean some of the symptoms that you were mentioning and you know you've been to six or seven doctors like even if you got rid of the causes that's going to take a while for your body to heal and it takes a while for the central nervous system even to forget essentially uh that threat and that's you know that's there's that's not a theory that a lot of people are floating that the cns kind of has this memory of the past threat and the longer you move away from it the better your body is at not all of a sudden jumping back into where it was before so uh that's that's my advice to you i i hope that does that help yeah i kind of had a feeling you guys are gonna say something like that i think um what i'm i the crossroad that i'm kind of at now because i'm really approaching my my goal weight i guess is like do i reverse off the ozempic and reverse my calories or do i stay on the ozempic and reverse my calories or do i just stop counting calories stop doing ozempic you know what how would you know too much too much all at once i would reverse the calories while on ozempic okay and then i would i would lower the dose of ozempic and then come off okay okay that's how i would approach it and and really like back to the focusing on getting strong it will feel like it's a slow process but if you if you know you're getting healthier and you're healing and you're getting better you will start to build muscle and when you start to build muscle and you start to get stronger it will speed up your metabolism this in turn will lean you out i mean we can put remember we can put five pounds of weight on the scale and you actually get leaner if we add five pounds in all of its muscle you you're technically a leaner person and you will feel and look that way so and if you're that low a calorie i think that's the direction that we need to go also you know mp holistic health is a forum there's functional medicine practitioners in there you can ask other people questions other functional medicine practitioners questions just to see if there's any you know other directions or advice or areas that you may want to look into okay all right cool it's helpful i appreciate it yeah thanks gath and thanks for calling in yeah thank you so much you got it i thought that was such an interesting a direction that a functional practitioner go both it doesn't sound antibiotics and then ozempic it doesn't sound typical we don't know the history and what they've been doing together that's why i'm a little yeah we don't know the that's why i'm careful on it's on the surface i mean most functional medicine practitioners as i've worked with they don't go uh pharmaceutical unless they have to right so that's why it was so weird to me to hear antibiotics and ozempic well plus biological hormones oh right yeah but but again like we don't know what they've done and how far she's gone and there's so much in this that's like we would do an hour and a half with her i know just trying to work it through and it's not even she said she's been through multiple physicians to i hope she i hope she gets in the forum with cabral and here's what they because maybe you're right maybe there's something that we're not hearing or that we don't know and then he he also would go oh yeah i understand why they're going that route um but i also think there's there's okay because a functional practitioner now can prescribe these things and there's a lot of money in fucking peptides for that you're going to see more and more of these functional practitioners utilizing that and pushing that it's going to it reminds me of like the the chiropractic move when we saw so many people that would get into that space and then it turned into a money grab more than anything else and it was very small percentage of really good chiropractors that i would meet going forward i feel like we're going to see that same movement into functional practitioners with like a what's going on the peptide i hope not i you know i hope not but if they're used properly they could be very agreed you're right i i i say i hope not because uh that would suck but i mean you're probably right we don't know the case here there's only thing i'm trying to say and i know that there is an appropriate way to use these things um you know when you understand the context of what's going on and so i that's why i'm always very careful because what i don't know is maybe they did do all these things right and i tell her don't do that and then she stops them yeah and but here's here's the thing that we do know she had mold toxicity and sebo there is a detoxifying pathway that's that that needed to get worked out and she still needs to heal i mean she didn't get her period for years she thinks she has pc os she's talking about all these crazy weight fluctuations hormonal issues like there was some shit that was going on the mold was a part of it but sometimes you get the mold toxicity because you're exposed to mold the other times you get it is because you're exposed to mold and your body doesn't get rid of it for some other reason so we don't know necessarily what's going on but it was there's definitely something and if she did solve it it's going to take a while and this this is a lot of people to understand this when you oftentimes think look if you if you have a knee injury because of the way you're walking and then you fix the way you're walking you don't go a run all of a sudden you got to let it heal before you can go push yourself a lot of people don't know this like oh i got rid of the mold now i'm going to go do all this other stuff or the sebo's gone now i'm going to go empty when you're feeling really good correct you solved that that was my mistake 100 times so our next color is josh from ohio josh what's happening man how cool is not much uh first off just say thank you guys you guys do a great job um been listening to you guys since about 2019 you guys provide a lot of information uh much that i hear sometimes don't get to the practicing portion of it or have the discipline to keep up with it uh but really appreciate the info you guys put out um you guys want me to just go straight into the question yeah do it here josh all right so this was back towards the end of june but uh i had gone to the doctor because i've had some issues with my shoulders i was told last year that i had a bone spur in my right shoulder and both shoulders have felt like they were grinding or as if tendons muscles were hung up on the bone spur and pulled across that one by one this happens more so on incline lifts and when using my arms laterally and over my head yesterday the nurse practitioner at the orthopedic office looked at x-rays of both my shoulders and confirmed bones bone spurs on each the advised surgery isn't an option to file down those spurs we further elaborated that my issue is a lack of cartilage between the arm bone and the socket due to arthritis he stated i need to stop lifting heavy weight but light weight at high volume would be okay he did not elaborate as to what rep range he would recommend um he did say that if my shoulders continue to worsen i will need to have shoulder replacement needless to say i was bummed by the news um my question though is uh i had a couple buddies that i've talked to about this and a couple of mentions in peptides uh two in particular were the tb 500 and the bpc 157 i've looked at these two and neither specifically mentioned working on arthritis i wanted to find out your thoughts on those and then which programs would you recommend for higher rep rangers and what range do you think i would be okay to do yeah well josh um have you heard the term when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail yes yeah when you ask an orthopedic surgeon or somebody in that field what the problem is they're going to look at the joint and they're going to say oh i could see why you hurt your joint looks the way it does but the other question is why why do i have a bone spur bone spurs often come from osteoarthritis or joint degeneration and that usually comes from poor movement patterns so over years and years and years same thing with wearing down cartilage so in other words i could take away the bone spurs i could give you brand new cartilage and then over the course of the next however many years it'll come back it'll happen again because we haven't really solved the issue which is you're moving in a way to cause these issues or cause these problems you have movement patterns that are causing these issues as far as peptides go bpc and tb 500 they can accelerate healing but so what if you keep damaging the the joint through poor movement patterns it's like um you know like i'm scraping my hand and getting a scar or you know getting a scab and so now i'm gonna heal faster i'm still scraping the shit out of my hand it's not gonna it'll help a little bit but it's not gonna solve the problem the the root cause is movement pattern issues so we got to figure that out now the best option for you would be to move to work excuse me work with a movement specialist the correctional exercise specialist physical therapists can do this quite well but there's other movement specialists you could hire uh that would work with you um that would also do a pretty damn good job now if that's not if that's out of the question for you because they can be kind of expensive i think the the mobility work and isometric exercises will be the the place to start okay so you said overhead movement or overhead press is bother your shoulder right okay can you hold the weight above your head and just hold it there does that hurt no holding it's fine and the pain is very short term is just literally like while i'm moving through the stages of where my shoulder is kind of grinding or making that movement so here's an idea okay and you could try this but if i were to train you what i would do is i'd have you press a weight above your head pack your shoulder so drop your shoulder down while keeping your elbow extended and holding that for 15 to 20 seconds and staying tense that would be a set then the next set is i'd lower it by maybe two inches same thing pack the shoulder hold that for 10 to 15 seconds that's another set another one would be a little lower so essentially you're moving through the range of motion but you're not moving through the range of motion in the rep you're literally holding certain positions and the key is to get into the position to where it doesn't hurt which means you may have to drop the shoulder back you may have to straighten out your spine you may have to align your elbow you may have to go lighter but what this will do is strengthen a better movement pattern and then eventually you can move into the full range of motion and i would combine that with mobility work and into your earlier point of like finding a good physical therapist or somebody to take you through these movements like and articulate your shoulder and range of motion that you learn these ranges of motion you learn these movement patterns specifically so you you can find those those areas where it's like it's right up to the threshold but now we stop and we kind of back off and then we squeeze and we tense our muscles and we try to make an isometric contraction happen there so what we're trying to do is rebuild this feedback so your your body is like I can stabilize in this position and your body is going to be more comfortable and familiar in that range of motion so when we actually start to go loading it and pressing or lifting weights you know around your shoulders like it's going to have that feedback that everything is supported and accounted for so the mobility piece to that really like the more you can dive into that and even get help with that is going to be crucial but yeah like isometrics are beautiful for any type of rehab and then you know eventually I would I would even recommend from there you go through all that work and then we get into like stuff like rubber bands where it's a little less impact but it's it's going to actually help to kind of build more strength and get more blood flow and things and it brings a bit of a healing element to that yeah I think this is this is a really tough one to help somebody virtually yeah um and I think it is very very well worth the investment in getting a physical therapist or movement specialist who is going to work through the movements and even if you just did it for a short period of time so they give you you know a you know collection of say five to ten movements like the one sow was describing that you have in your arsenal for you to then go practice but having a coach there uh or a specialist there who is going to be able to explain to you when you're in a certain place like oh that bothers me and they can go oh well that's because you need to lift your chest up and pull your shoulder blades back down and they can actually help you articulate uh your body in the position that you need to be in through these movements doing that online without us kind of seeing you move uh I mean I hope we can help but I do think that I would save the money on the peptides I would save the money on things because here's a thing like if you don't and then this goes the the surgery and the medication route and so like that you're going to end up spending way more money way more on that end up in the same place yeah you're going to be you're going to be worse off you're going to spend more money and it's going to be this frustrating thing that you're battling but investing in somebody to help you through this um and and practicing beneficial movement patterns that's really where you need to go now in the meantime if you don't have maps prime pro i'll send that to you and their shoulder and shoulder blade mobility movements that you can practice on your own very carefully with good control good tension don't just go through the movements but do them in a controlled fashion as uh they're demonstrated in the video and in those videos what's so great what's so great about prime pro is we actually have a one of our favorite movement specialist dr brink in there coaching the three of us on how to move so you get that kind of one-on-one feeling so that i agree this would be the the best virtual thing that we can do for you is at least give that to you but i would still seek out and he's in our form a bunch too so that would be somebody i would i would definitely reach out to and he might know somebody in your area that he'd recommend in fact if you want to work with someone where are you located josh you're in ohio north central ohio okay so he's he's Idaho yeah he's Idaho but he does work with people virtually i've sent uh some family members to him so just get him in the form and he's excellent if you go in our forum and ask for him i mean he can help you and then you could probably uh if you want to work with him privately i was one of the best he's the best i mean that's that's why we we developed the program with him so well that sounds good i thank you guys for that you got it man yeah we're gonna send you over prime pro we're also gonna send you access to the forum josh so make sure you get in there his name is dr justin brink yeah that's the guy you want to you want to look for a tag yeah tag him and then uh ask questions and he'll take it from there i do already have the forum um if i may real quick do you have like a specific rep range that you think that i would be if should i continue to do my exercises and the other programs that i have at you guys or just do the prime pro for a while you you need i mean as long as they don't hurt you that's fine but it sounds like you need to go correctional exercise a hundred percent focus on that yeah yeah and see where you know what ability you have in terms of like what your ranges are and i think like figuring out those parameters would be super helpful for then the regular exercises to give to give you something to follow right now so you're doing something on a regular basis until we get to break or solve some of this stuff go to the mapsprimeprowebinar.com and follow the little 50 minute routine that i have in there like that'll give you something to do oh there you go that you can like start right like you can keep going on you could do that's going to benefit you and help you right now and then in the in the meantime you know we'll we'll get connected to brink and start working on the shoulder specifically but you're but you're better off putting a lot of focus on that than potentially injuring yourself doing some of the other weight stuff all right sounds good thank you you got it man yeah good luck take it easy yep yeah the the problem with the traditional methods is is the doctor's like oh we got a brown spot oh i know and then they'll go and they'll shave it off off and then you know and then the guy's like wow i feel better but but the movement pattern has changed yeah or worse give you a shot and this is why yeah yeah especially the knee surgeries you end up like having to do the other knee yeah it's just inevitable yeah uh because the movement pattern is never yeah 100 this is one of those things too where it might seem expensive to hire someone like cheaper doctor brinks caliber right but man hiring someone like that for one or two months to see you two three times a week until you get this like really down it's actually going to be cheaper if you count 100% it'll be way way way cheaper and then you'll at least have the knowledge on okay this is what i need to do if i want to address this myself versus trying to guess or going to these these surgeons that they again that everything is a is a nail to them yeah this reminds me of like so when i used to go to work with my dad i remember there was just one job he went to and the guy he gave the guy a quote and the guy said well the other guy is going to do it for half the price and my dad knew how they do it and he goes it's actually going to be more expensive for you because then you're going to call me to tear it down and i'm going to have to come reinstall it it's exactly what happened exactly i put it in you know and it was all crappy or whatever my dad went in went in had to tear it down and then do it again the guy ended up spending more money so look if you like the show go to mind pump free dot com and check out all of our free fitness guides get some help from mine pump with those free guides you can also find all of us on instagram so justin is on instagram at mine pump justin i'm on instagram at mine pump to stephan oh and adam is on instagram at mine pump adam