 That's why they have another kid and they're like, oh, it'll be a good idea No, that's how the second kid is how you totally cement like okay. Everything's totally blocked out now So I just started the live stream so don't pick your nose or anything weird I mean you can't hide it. Andrew. Do you have a Twitter handle? I do slag SL a G I Am I you are not introducing or I'm not introducing myself SL a G right? Yeah, as in slag hammer slag from It didn't populate Yes, like it should be I have us plugging your website was there something Just the four letters all right, yeah Promote Jeff besides we have Jeff canada.com is there something that's probably the least useful thing Just go to Twitter. Yeah, Twitter's fine Jeff add Jeff canada and I am I am not introducing myself, correct? Oh, I don't know what usually you do Roger. Did you not have him introducing himself? No, it just is it's in the introduced guest thing which is fine. Oh, no, no, no, that should Okay, let me okay, cool. Hold on. Let me move. Let me that was already in there And there you go the hills of Ohio Oh Apography of that the state I'll say the rolling. Hey, Tom, you're still near me, right? Aren't you still? Mm-hmm? Yeah, yeah Okay, cool. And so Sarah. She's not that far from either one of us I thought you guys are still in the bit in the Bay Area Sarah you and Roger. No up in near Glendale I moved down and at the end of 2016 so I'm out in Glendale and I moved at the Well, it almost exactly two years ago today It was first week of March 2016. That's cool. Karraze. I know so hard to afford a plate Oh, yeah, never moved. I just stayed in the same like in the same four-block area That must be nice I was lucky because you know the Google and snap grew up around me. Thank God. It's never for deliver now, but yeah Well, we'll talk about part of the reason why in our first round table topic. Oh, yeah I was telling Tom and Roger. You know, I was sort of, you know Moni and groaning about my taxes, which I more or less finished last night You know, it's some sticker shock and so I was like, okay Well, I guess this is now the time to start eating these cans of beans that I've been moving around from apartment to apartment over the last decade Which you know, they really it's like there's something I don't know And one quick thing if you guys see yellow at the top of the rundown, that's just telling me telling everyone to You have like a couple of minutes before wrap up Okay Ready here we go three two Wait a minute three two The Daily Tech news show is powered by its listeners not outside Organizations if you get value from the show consider giving a little back as little as a dollar a month keeps great tech news and analysis Coming your way commercial free find out more at Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for Friday, February 23rd our round table edition from DTS headquarters in Los Angeles on Tom Merritt and from a chilly beach day at studio feline I'm Sarah Lane and from the rolling hills of Cleveland, Ohio I'm Len Peralta joining us for our round table discussion today We're very excited to have Jeff canada with us host if we have concerns among many other things Jeff Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here We've got some great topics to discuss Jeff's brought one and so has our other guest Andrew Han from maru matchbox com Andrew good to have you along as well. Hey Tom. I'm really happy to be here. Thanks a lot our producer Roger Chiang has Gathered us all together. Thank you Roger. Thank you for being assembled. This is our round table show We do it once a month right now, although we have a milestone for a second one if you like it We expand the regular show into a full-fledged round table discussion We'll do a full hour of meaty discussion Vegan friendly meaty discussion with Sarah myself our guests And while all our topics cover news of the day, we'll start with a few tech things you should know Google announced updates to Google Assistant including the launch of Routines, which will let you ask for multiple actions at once very helpful later this year Google Assistant will also get deeper integration with phone makers and mobile carriers to be able to handle requests specific to those devices or services Assistance will also add 30 languages by the end of the year and the ability to automatically tell what language you are speaking. Oh That's pretty cool Google AR core system is also out of beta as version 1.0 launches on Limited phones the phones have to have the right hardware So the Google pixels have it the LGV 30s have it the Zenfone AR 1 plus 5 Recent Samsung phones. There's a full list on their website AR core now supports anchoring of Virtual objects to any text to a textured surface doesn't have to be horizontal Developers can submit apps that support AR core to the Play Store There's now support for AR core in snap the so the bees real estate app JD comm Those are among some of the first to do it Google is also partnering with certain OEMs in China To let non Google play devices take advantage of AR core there since Google doesn't actually operate its service in China Also, the lens visual search tool is now part of Google photos on Android and iOS 9 or later This is a weird one CBS Sacramento in California reports that Elk Grove, which is a suburb of Sacramento California's police department has received around 1,600 accidental emergency calls in the last four months The calls seem to be coming from a nearby Apple refurbishment center since dispatchers report sometimes hearing Conversations in the background about Apple devices and repairs Apple told CBS Sacramento It was aware of the issue and working with the police stations to rectify it I mean, I want to laugh, but it's not funny because it's getting in the way of emergency services like that is That's a lot of calls. That's not like five calls in six. That's like 20 a day something like that. That's yeah That's insane Mobile World Congress kicks off in Barcelona on Monday February 26. So of course the press conferences will start on Sunday the 25th We'll give these times in eastern since that's when most of our audience is In the in that's where most of our audience is Huawei is at 8 a.m. Eastern Nokia 10 a.m Samsung at 12 Eastern Sony's press conferences Monday for Eastern time zone That's 2 15 a.m. And ASUS has their announcement Tuesday at 1 30 p.m. Eastern BMW is recalling 11,700 cars to fix their engine management software because the wrong program had been installed on some luxury 5 and 7 series models BMW issued a statement about the recall after a port in Der Spiegel Suggested maybe the company had installed software to manipulate emissions of harmful gases such as nitrogen oxide Which the company has denied you might recall that Volkswagen went through something sort of similar affected cars are in the 5 and 7 series made between 2012 and 2017 Containing high-performance diesel engines and three to turbocharges although no regional details yet We don't know if this is all in one region or if they're spread out across the world Ouch Well, you believe they're not they could take that car back in and get software update last August opera delisted It's opera max app That's the one that would compress your data stream to save your data if you had a low data cap It remained functional for existing users, but we didn't know how long that was gonna happen Well, now we know Friday Samsung announced it's updating the app for Samsung Galaxy device users Changing its name to Samsung max and it will continue to operate it But only for Samsung users if you got a non Samsung phone with opera max the app will be disabled the next time it updates Shall we get into our first discussion topic Tom? Let's do it. I'm excited and everyone else All right, so before the show actually even and really over the last couple of weeks we've talked a lot about snaps you know earnings and Whether or not they're losing their followers Kylie Jenner earlier this week had had tweeted that she's no She didn't think anybody was using snap anymore. The stock actually dropped Temporarily but but still it's you know, there there's there's definitely some volatility there Yesterday there was a port that Evan Spiegel had made quite a lot of money as a as a payout In fact, I believe it he was the third it was the third highest payout in a year for a tech CEO Which ended up being 603 million dollars So, you know, my first reaction was like what the heck is he taking all this money for? You know with snapsies, you know, they're they're trying to figure out their way And they've got this new redesign that a lot of people don't like and this is just crazy You know, how can you even do that? Of course Tom pointed out to me as he does Well, you know, it was supposed to be more than that because there is a there is a situation that that got set up where he agreed to Take a particular payout in order to to help along an IPO which a lot of investors wanted to happen and that that percentage of the company was more like 800 million back in I think 2015 when it was when this was all put on paper So really he wasn't actually he was getting a lot of money But he also lost a lot of money From the point that he had made the deal thinking that you know, that the stock would only rise Yeah, that'll teach him And I guess I wanted to open it up to to to all of you that Do you feel a sense of indignation when when somebody who's it, you know Obviously created a product that a lot of people use not everybody but a lot of people use part of their daily lives and if it is not going well or You know, haven't you know having a little bumps along along the you know, the evolution road Is there some sort of a cap? on What kind of a payout someone gets before we all say ah well, they're just a bunch of greedy people They don't care about us and before you answer Let me point out that this isn't his salary his salary was $98,078 now granted that's more than I make that's more than the salary I make here on DTS It's not it's not low, but it's low for CEOs salary wise the payout The $600 million is a drop in the bucket of his stock holdings It was stock it was stock issued and you do this to encourage founders to IPO because some founders are like I'm just gonna keep the stock to myself and it's hard for investors to cash out their investments if they don't go IPO So this is a standard thing a standard practice that happens It's reported as compensation because it was issued to him in the year But like Sarah said when they agreed to give him this bonus if he took the company public It was worth a lot more so yeah It was based on what the the the company value was at that time, which is right years ago and things have changed since then Well, look here's my opinion about this. I mean I work a lot of big corporations and I think that the Putting out your your own money out into and your time into a Big effort like this is you need to be paid for that I think if you don't have people feeling like it they're gonna be compensated for Taking risks and they won't do it and I mean I mean I've been tracking snap for a long time and and you know I do I do agree I'm a user only because my kids are users really and I like some of their features Especially the pinch and zoom and location information I think that actually they've done a pretty interesting job in the past six months of trying to Focus on what they should be caring about which is more localized Advertising they're doing some pretty interesting things in that realm and they're actually starting to see some of the benefit of that coming up So despite the changes in interface and despite the the fact, you know that you know the the young Jenner is not not as Interested anymore. I don't think that's a reason to say to this guy You can't have you know the valuation that we originally talked about it's just business And I think that he should be encouraged to do that I think everybody should be encouraged to try to you know start a new business new a new a new venture And they should be you know, they should be paid for it I mean I don't think in terms of the scale that I'll never and see that much money in my life So I don't really care much this guy makes but at the end of the day. I think He should be encouraged to keep going because like I mean we're separating like Google and Facebook are taking all these Advertising dollars at least there should be two or three other people playing a role here other companies You know, I mean, I know Amazon's working with the advertising. They're gonna come on really really strong in the next year But I'm well I want to see snap too well, you know, and I want I want I want those guys to be encouraged to keep going I I fear this will get more political than I intend it to or that our viewers really would want but I I mean, I think this speaks to a weird inequality That this country has sort of embraced wholeheartedly and while I don't disagree that These incentives should be commensurate with risk and should encourage risk and should Reflect a a level of commerce that is at scale It feels to me like There's something real wrong when You read over and over and over about this kind of thing happening and it Really has no bearing on whether the company is doing well or poorly that these golden parachutes are sort of in place Regardless of performance and listen, I'm speaking from a position of ignorance on a lot of this stuff I am not know by no means an expert on a lot of these Fortune 500 businesses But it's hard to ignore the fact that these headlines happen over and over and over again and Whether it's banks or tech companies or what have you it doesn't seem to be connected to actual performance Ups and downs in the company and these guys are cashing these huge payouts and They while their contribution was Significant certainly the proportion of their contribution In relation to the rest of the people that work at that company doesn't seem to be reflected in the amount of money Everybody walks away with so yeah, I you know I I have strong feelings about this and it comes down more to wage inequality and income inequality in America than anything else And I don't know if we want to go down that road sure but I think that's a really important point to bring up even if we don't want to get into that conversation because that's Not really about technology, but we look at these tech CEOs and we think they're they're overpaid Sometimes just like you said that is true sometimes people think the same of other industries and I think this is a great example to examine because I Looked at this headline this morning, and I had a very similar to reaction to what you're describing Jeff Which is like wow Evan Spiegel got six hundred thirty eight million dollars. That doesn't seem right there You know they haven't been doing that great It's only recently that they've started to turn a profit again I wonder if that's out of proportion then I read the fortune article He didn't get money. He got stock and I think that's important to keep in mind also employees of snap got stock He he cashed out 50 million of it I'm not trying to excuse Evan Spiegel and say like oh, he's a poor guy He certainly isn't but there's a difference between a typical golden parachute that often does give money Like flat-out cash a golden parachute that gives out Unwarranted amounts of stock and what I think is happening here And it's that I think the fundamental thing is can we see beyond headlines and understand What is happening with Evan Spiegel here is no different than what happens with most founders of companies That's totally right like I one of my best friend has this really interesting Spreadsheet and it's like the kind of I don't give a damn spreadsheet And basically what it is is they put in all these variables of how many kids you have where you live How many houses you have what they try to do is make sure that they don't offer so much Ownership of a company that a CEO or somebody involved in it that has intellectual involvement And just just leaves right because they want to keep a hold of those people and That magic number for most of those people is between like 8 and 11 million somewhere around there after that like it doesn't Matter right it's not it this is not we're not talking about money that I mean this is you know You know industry moving amounts of money. It's not a it's not it's not small So I think it's important to realize this is my point of view only that you want to encourage people to make things better Make better consumer products you want to make sure that that what they're contributing at some point to society is better than You know that then what's out there today? I mean I look at a lot of businesses that are they're dying today and the CEOs are still making tons of money You know their profitability continues to go down yet. They still make money And and I would chalk that up to this like well, you know you need talents you need to pay them Well, I don't really believe that but I do believe that people should own more of a business if they really and they Would they really want to have skin in the game to drive it forward to have real passion for it Otherwise you just see the series of people coming it out and just start you know Robert Barron in the whole thing just taking money and walking away not doing anything good or really have any Kind of vision for where things should go. I mean, I don't think these guys should make this month much money That's that's a moral issue. It's not really a business issue It takes money to invest in new things at scale like that That's just the reality if he turns around and puts all that money back into making something new then that's great I mean a lot of other tech companies CEOs and others have done stuff like that So yeah, I think part of the interesting thing about this is and yes I'm following snap news more than the average person But there's been a lot of kind of ups and downs like has snap lost its way people don't like the redesign Oh wait, the stock seems to be rebounding. So Volatility again to go back to that word is is is the name of the game for snap right now if Everything was you know, you know on the up and up, right? Let's you know Compared to Mark Zuckerberg or something. It's I think it's very easy for when a company seems to be able to do no wrong and You know making a lot of investors money and that sort of thing people say like well You got the golden touch figured it out. Wow. You're a genius when things are rocky, which they usually are for almost all companies Have these have these moments. That's when I I find you know People go like and he's walking away with that much money. Well, gosh, it's just you know, everybody's so greedy Well, I mean unless you have snap stock the whole the whole experience is free, right? So it's like I'm not sure what any of these people owe me or or anybody else At the same time there There is There's that there's that part of it. That's like well It's not as if you know how to make the perfect app because you've got a lot of people that you know are unhappy with the The changes that you're making and so it's easier to point fingers that you're pocketing money that you don't necessarily deserve and Jeff to your points, I think What my problem with this story is there's a backlash because it's a tech CEO and a big number But this isn't the best example Everything everything you said is is worth paying attention to is the system working properly Are CEOs being paid too much or being compensated too much even with stock? Maybe that's true I just don't know if this story about spiegel is actually the best example of the problem in the system or not I completely agree and recognize that and You know it it touches on something that like I said, I don't know if we want to spiral into because yeah It is not really this story But it it's what this story conjures for me is the you know the stories and I'll use generalizations But I because I don't have specific examples But the idea we've all heard the company that goes bankrupt and the CEO walks away with a hundred million dollars You know, it's it's that kind of thing where This all seems so disproportionate to actual performance it is it's This case like you said is not a great example of that because it doesn't seem to be You know wildly off base with regard to performance, but I think it's indicative of a structure an overall Compensation structure that just seems out of whack to me But just keep it by it if snap stock goes into the toilet that's 603 million dollars becomes worthless Exactly. Yeah, that has happened so very many times and they're not met in a position Then necessarily, you know see that that road ahead is as certain so, you know I think it's important Tom what you said that like, you know his salary is a different thing This is just stock It's not necessarily, you know all something you can exercise like today And if he did it would tank the threat The actions that you take when you have you own that much are really really detrimental to the stock so I Don't know. I mean, but but I from my point of view though I do think that I believe in technology to make our lives better, you know I think you've had a lot of really interesting situations as technology has made its way into our lifestyle every part of our life So political that that it's just it should do better It should it should perform better and I think you see it should be held accountable to that too All right, send send us your good examples of this because we know they're out there Maybe this isn't the one but maybe there is one feedback at daily tech news show calm Let's go to Jeff's topic Jeff you wanted to talk about big data and how it's impacting our lives That's a big topic. What what in particularly about this topic. Do you want to focus on it is a big topic? It's one I've been thinking about a lot lately I'm kind of working with an app company and just talking about video games and we're seeing loot boxes in the news as a big controversy and Even legislation in Hawaii and other places to potentially protect people against the the horrors of loot boxes And I think all of it if you take a step back is basically big data is the idea that it occurs to me is that that we as human beings Are now able to gather so much data on ourselves and use that data to both predict and influence our behavior be it buying behavior or just opinion and Yet, I don't think we've reconciled that as a species I don't think we are built to even understand how easily manipulated we are and easily persuaded we are based on the kinds of information that can be gathered about ourselves now because we're just a few years into this and It is happening at such a rapid rate. I don't I don't think many people even Understand how easy it is I'll tell a quick story as a quick. Yeah. Yeah, I heard recently that there's some data that to suggest that People that a very effective way to sell something to somebody is to determine based on the gyroscope in your phone, whatever and time of day that if your phone is sitting Horizontal for a certain amount of time at a certain amount at a certain time of night You probably just went to bed and if a company flashes an ad that says hey for the next three hours 50% off on this There's a huge likelihood that people are going to buy that because they they feel like oh, they're gonna miss it while they're sleeping And so these kinds of things and in gaming it's even crazier because a game that you think is playing by a set of rules that are Static across the whole player base Can very much not be it can be they can be rules for one group of people on one rule for another group of people based on your buying habits to get you to buy more and I just don't think we've reconciled that as human beings We don't think we're being manipulated because we don't have that sense yet, and I wonder what you guys think I I think that we are in a learning curve, right and My hope we talked about this a little bit earlier this this week. My hope is that We start to get more astute at telling when this is happening when that when that last minute Advertisement shows up. We are like I heard Jeff Cannata tell me that when my phone is flat that happens. So now I'm now I'm prepared. You can't fool me I think we will get better at that the question always is, you know, what what are the limits of that now? And and you're saying you're basically saying be more cynical. Well be more more Analytical I'd use a different it equal But but be more analytical and because we think we already do that with advertisements, right? These same concerns were expressed about advertisements on television in the 50s and 60s And now we kind of laugh at that because we're like come on y'all can see through what the manipulation that they're trying now because we all Learned it. We will learn that about big data But there are also things they can do that we can't combat that we just aren't good as humans and that's that's where laws come in That's where the FCC comes in and says yeah, are the yeah, you know are the FTC I guess comes in and says you can't do that in an advertisement That's not okay, and we're learning we have to learn what those things are but I think I'm sorry to keep jumping in But I think the issue is even larger than that because I think it's things you can't Possibly learn about because you are this isolated case and the idea being that I can take a data point from you one single data point and know 50 other data points about you because human beings work in these trends and to say oh You bought you bought this on a Tuesday I bet I can sell you this and this and this because the kinds of people to buy that buy that so It's scary. So, you know, I I'm holding out hope with my 15 year old son Who's who's loves to try to break the algorithm, right? So he loves us grabbing phones and saying random stuff It's like they play this game called exquisite corpse. It does this old game from like oh, yeah, right? You know that game and it just say random things like You know and his whole thing is like let's break this I mean, I think this is the funny thing when you're 15 you can't smoke anymore. So you got to do other things But you know, that's his thing right and he's trying to break this algorithm Which is kind of hilarious, but I think you know, I think it's important for everybody Just be critical thinkers about what you share. I mean Apple's taking this course, right? They're they're basically saying with you know was secure on with secure element in there in their chips that like look We don't want to know right more We're showing a contrast between us right in the other you know three companies in the gaffa world You know with Facebook and and Google that we don't want to know this stuff We want you to own your own thing and to go your own way and and we're okay with that Mostly because we sell hardware and not not you you know not your personal information your data your location But you know one thing I'm trying to tell my son is look You know this that this is a plane that's never gonna land your data has equity right for a long time And you need to manage it. I Think that's a really interesting point about a 15 year old wanting to break it because The real danger Jeff and I think the reason you and I are probably a little more nervous about this than Andrew's son is It's harder as you get older to avoid these things We all look at people who are older than us who fall Yeah, I'm thinking of particularly my father-in-law who fall for these these phone scams or email scams We're like, how did you not see that and it's it's because you get you get a it's a little harder to react as you get older And if and if you are involved in something that you're inexperienced with You don't have the tools to attack it not saying all old people fall for scams There's there's plenty of folks who are older who are on top of it But it just generally as a population gets harder to avoid that stuff. So there's hope for the future But not for us we're screwed You know, I like to think that that for the most part I'm I'm well aware of what's going on around me It is as far as the you know Big data that we've been talking about so far and a lot of times, you know I kind of chuckle when it doesn't work that well, right? So it's like bought a pair of shoes and now all the ads I see on Facebook are for the shoes already bought or I'm like Here's this deal that I already bought those haha, you know, it's like this is worth us but But there are also times where I get a little confused as well And you know, for example, I went through some getting new health care recently and And and you know, there's there's so much information That some of these people are cold calling me that they know about me already, you know And they're spoofing the phone number so it seems like it's coming from like my hometown was not in a you know it it is a Landmine of trying to figure out what's real and what isn't a lot of the time and that's really frustrating It's frustrating for people who you studied this for a living, you know, I'm one of those people But it's really frustrating To see how much it is manipulating not everybody the same way But a lot of folks yes older and certainly younger, you know, and everybody's different, but I Know what you mean Jeff that the whole You know the indication here is how do we sort of regain control of Our selves, you know, you know all of the data out here that says something about us how accurate is that really and Especially when you're you know talking about Reputations online and the way that other people perceive you and how that might affect your work later or your you know Your family life or or or your relationships with others. I don't really have the answer But I do find that you know more often than not I I notice when it doesn't work Well more than what it does. It's great. It's crazy to me because I think there are Clearly multiple levels to this right? There's the level of very specific data about me pictures of my family And old addresses I've lived at The kind of data that we all think you have to be real careful about and real on top of and then there's this General data that says I live in a very specific part of Los Angeles Which means I see these things which means that my neighbors are these kinds of people Which we can now extrapolate into understanding how I behave how I think That to me is the crazy part is the part that I literally I have no agency over I have no ability to say I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put that photo online. That's not even about that It's about the you know I'm a big fan of Asimov and the foundation series, right? And that was like the good version was hey at a certain level we can just predict the future because we have friends We're kind of predicting the future or at least the present with these trends Well, you know Jeff I just said the throne how I think that that you know We're giving a little almost too much credence to the ability of algorithms to do a good job. I mean You know with AI is thrown on so much these day You know big data AI and it's all coming together and everything But we are really at a very just basic categorical level with AI, you know I mean obviously there is some extrapolation that can happen But I think I personally see a lot of automation fail I mean pretty miserably, you know that there's not a lot of great recommendations on you know My t-bo that I own a lot not a lot of great recommendations come from Netflix and Actually something you want to talk about later about that, but I feel like there's this weird situation We're kind of in the middle of I want it to know more about me I want an app to know more about me so it can be effective But I also don't want it to know so much about me I just wish I had a knob to turn when it's private, you know versus public and I wish I had that that that measure in In the moment, and I think you know companies are terrible about that We're you know, we're looking at a bunch of companies that don't know what to do Everybody's trying to develop a I they don't know why and it's you know, I don't know I worry about that not only the dial, but the ability to pull it back, right? We can't we're so conditioned that they just have all our information that we it's hard to even conceive That it would be possible to say I'm gonna actually pull my data out and they won't have it anymore But there are several projects underway to create a system that does just that I'll mention one Because it's led by Tim Berners-Lee the inventor of the web That is being done at MIT called solid the aim of the project is to Containerize data ownership and make it so that it can only be accessed not stored by companies And you can revoke that access anytime you want That's interesting. I mean, I I think there are lots of lots of threads this can go down and and clearly I mean we see all this stuff with with Facebook and Google and the elections and all that stuff where trends and general Movements of people are manipulated by what kinds of things they see versus what kinds of things others see others see I find that all problematic and you know just the fact that I've learned a simple Game like Candy Crush, and I'm not using Candy Crush as a specific example other than everybody knows it I don't know this is happening in that game, but I know there are plenty of games because games happens to be my specialty where Match three for example if if I'm if there's a mechanism in the game to let me buy things if I'm the kind of person that buys more stuff The game gets harder for me because they know I will buy that stuff the game is not on a level playing field across all users it's listening to how I behave and then playing into that and pulling the specific strings of my behavior to extrapolate more money out of me These kinds of these kinds of things where you can We I just don't think human and I'm not a lot. I I'm not a guy who's saying Oh, I don't want my data known. I agree I want certain apps to know lots more about me so they can you know make the plane reservations Automatically all that stuff. I'm into but there is a level of Sort of grand human puppeteering that I see starting that is very very scary Well and and the and the hope is and the key to it is Recognizing this in advance having conversations like we're having right now are important to being able to combat That because there are multiple problems, you know, I mentioned solid as a way to containerize your information Okay, let's say that that finally pans out it gets adopted and it's great Everybody's controlling your information It doesn't solve the problem Jeff just mentioned because they don't need to know who I am or anything about me They just need to know like boy Tom is really good at fulfilling the requests for the animals on animal crossing Let's start having a mask for rarer items that he'll need to spend money on on leaf tickets in order to fulfill They don't need to know a thing about me to make that happen And so yeah, it goes back to a little bit of that analytical approach that we're talking about earlier for us to recognize it But you're right Jeff some people that's just a button. That's gonna keep being pushed. Yeah Yeah, I just might might one of the thing that I think is is interesting is that a lot of this has been talked about Apparently recently there's a guy at Harvard Business School actually and his name is it's coming to me Oh doc serals who's awesome You wrote this great thing called the the clue train manifesto and it's all about this whole idea This sort of future place of we all you know owning our own data Making sure that we can pull it back and actually turn in the tables on the on the whole customer relationship Management wheel right and and saying like look no I want I want to manage you like I manage my abs I want to manage these business. I want you to anonymize my data I want you to anonymize my data and I want you know be able to push button those things And you know give me those things give me the convenience, but don't don't you know manipulate what I want to do I think about that every time I you know try to get in a new freaking flower program If you think about to like the madman era right they were trying to Get you to buy things by putting a certain font and putting a certain kind of person in a certain kind of outfit on a page And we still do that but they were sort of blindly Walking around in the dark hoping to catch on to a trend that worked and now we have data that says hey If you move this these words two inches higher This happens if you make this font to two, you know points larger this happens and that to me is either what I don't think we've reconciled that level of of granular data manipulation with you yeah every advance always feels like the insurmountable one until you surmount it or Don't and then Rome falls so Fun to see which one this is Let's move on to Andrew Hans at shows and discussion topic This will be a good one because it's all about the idea of media overload There's so many choices that we have now. We can't possibly watch everything. We can't possibly digest everything It's all over the place. Where do you find it all? Where does it go? Who who is watching it and what happens when I don't know if people do Andrew? What are your thoughts on this? Well actually what you just said about who is watching it is anybody watching it It's kind of a major issue, right? I mean last year this is like a couple numbers last year There was around almost 500 about 490 original content, you know unscripted or scripted content Shows that were thrown out there. I mean that's a massive increase in content And that's not even like Apple jumping on into the boat quite yet in the full way that they want to so we're just we're seeing I don't think there's ever been a moment in Content history where there's more content that goes unwatched, right from from like major studios Now we're seeing a huge production and people not watching it at all You know whether it's Netflix or Amazon or the major studios in LA So one of the big issues there is is is fragmentation and one of my favorite quotes from CES this year was from Robert Sites sites all I think from from YouTube their their business operations guy there and he said His quote was great. It said he said the fragmentation is like gravity, right? It's not gonna change It's not gonna go away. It's it's a new law and and I think that's right And I guess for you know just because the heavily sparked people you know talking to me today I want to know what you guys think about this, you know Are you frustrated by your inability to find things and where do you find things? These are the questions that we ask at Maru all the time We're trying to you know, we have lots of massive, you know big data communities hundred thousand two hundred thousand people We ask these questions all the time and and one of the the things we're most curious about is how do you find? Stuff today, you know, it seems to me that that unless you have a universal search Which is never good or in great algorithms which usually fail doing this, you know How do you get stuff? Well, I know for me. I actually I belong to a slack group where we we basically just talk about television and movies and Everybody's into it, you know, and it's great to get recommendations and and you know We need for all watching the same thing great Usually we're not though and so someone will say how the you know pull dark gotta watch that And I'm like I got all this other stuff to watch like it's not that I don't want to I'm just not gonna get to it, right because my time is finite So those are the you know, those are the times where I say like it's a bummer I know I'm missing out on good stuff I just simply only have enough time and I've already chosen to watch some of these other programs now as a media creator On the other side of it, you know, sometimes I feel like I've got a really good idea for a new podcast You know or a short film or you know something along those lines and then I think well, we're gonna put it You know, how do I reach the you know the the largest intended target audience? You know if I feel like I know who's going to like it because it's harder than ever because there's so much choice Yeah, you know again at the same time you get a lot of really great niche programming because The the tools available to us to create stuff that someone would like Are great better than ever, but yeah, then you've kind of you you have a situation where And this has happened to me before I'm like that was one of the best TV shows I've ever seen and I don't know one other person who's watching it or cares and it's like I'm talking to the wind and It's just it's the fragmentation of it all is is a real issue Especially for something like yeah like Amazon Studios or Netflix where they're putting a lot of money into shows And then they're yanking them real quick if they aren't hits right away because they know what a hit is at this point So it's better to you know, try a bunch of stuff and then just you know You don't even sign on for 10 episodes necessarily you just get in and out of that real quick It's just it's so it's very fickle I guess is the word that comes to mind the whole thing feels very fickle to me even when it's really good quality programming I think the encouraging point here At least from a content creation standpoint is the rise of stuff like Netflix where the entire business model Doesn't care if it's a hit or not all it cares about is did you keep your subscription? Is there enough stuff here that makes it seem essential to you that you kept your subscription? I don't care if you watch X or watch Y or if you watched anything It doesn't matter to me if we had a single eyeball as long as you felt like it was necessary to you to have Netflix To be involved in the conversation to to feel like well I better keep it because there's enough stuff always happening that I need to be able to watch it Even if I'm not and that's a completely new place to be in right? That's the the old I guess you could say HBO and cable have been that a little bit but More than ever these new business models that say hey, I don't care that people thought Which I'm gonna call it. I think they just came out with Will Smith sci-fi show. Oh Oh right, right. I don't care if everybody hated bright or if it got bad reviews or whatever It doesn't they mute mute is the new bright. Yeah, whatever It doesn't matter if it's good if it's bad if it if if a lot of people watched it If a lot of people didn't enough people felt like they needed to be able to watch it that it justifies its existence and While that may seem a little cynical It's also really encouraging because the onus isn't on one particular piece of media to justify its own existence It's part of a tapestry of things that can exist on these platforms and only get Certain really cool niche audiences to feel really passionate about it like you said Sarah You are about whatever TV show that I want to know what TV show that was by the way That's okay, like they can be I doesn't the it doesn't have to Bear the burden of being a hit it can just be part of a larger group of things that all support the network. I Went through a period last year where I was watching so much stuff that I found myself getting Irrationally angry when someone recommended a show to me like it was too much pressure Be like no just I don't care how good it is No, I can't watch another show and I had I finally came to the realization that I Was still treating television the way I was raised to when there were three networks, you know pre-fox days And and you you could watch everything you wanted to yeah, and you can't do that I I decided to change my approach to television and movies Especially television to be more like books. There are always lots of good books out You don't see everyone reading the same book although some become popular and a lot of people read them You can always go back and read a book that's old and nobody goes. Oh, you're just now getting around or reading Finnegan's wake What's wrong with you? That's so old It's spoilers for Finnegan's wake everybody So so yeah, kids ask you Confusing those and nobody understands them, so right but but but I'm treating television more like books There's a there's a few that I want to keep current on that I want to read or watch right away so I can talk to my fellow friends who are also doing that But I don't I'm like I just can't watch everything. I just won't although you should watch pull-dark I know I should Fit take right tape fair tape proper that you don't watch pull dark The point that you make that it is a little bit like reading books now because yeah, it's it's it's not about On NBC at 8 p.m. You're either gonna watch a show or you're not going to it comes and goes and then you're gonna be behind if You missed this episode, you know, right or a movie or whatever now I watch series sometimes when I enough people say sir, it's going to change your life for the better You have to watch a series, you know, it's ten years old or whatever. I can find it I can find it where you know somehow, you know, I'm one of my my court-gutting avenues and that's okay But it does speak to Andrew's point about this fragmentation where we're all kind of on these different journeys And then there's sort of pressure to get on the same somebody else I think it's honestly a healthy thing and you know, we're seeing riders shonda rimes, right and is it Brad Gray, who's the guy that did glee and then Ryan Murphy is that is right Murphy? That's yeah So, you know, I think those guys are well, they're making decisions based on money So the fact that they're not money those guys are making is pretty stunning if you compare them to other riders going back to the original Conversation about you know about you know, it's not on the scale of snap But whatever anyway, but they're moving to have more freedom to tell different kinds of stories that are not locked in the 42 minute You know or whatever I think it's actually a pretty good thing that we have a lot of fragmentation Because you can look we're exploring this whole long tail of content all these new kinds of stories That's nothing but good I think personally because you get to find some events really like you it is like books there I agree with you and I think that's a good thing, right? We're discovering really awesome, you know Awesome great, but I mean I just ordered The the 100 year anniversary of I think it's black folk right the the WB Because that just was that it's 100th anniversary a couple days ago because I want to explore that I've never read it I probably should have read it But the fact that you can go back and find things and really immerse yourself I think it's a positive thing the issue that businesses have and I think that business Models have today traditional ones is that people can't find anything. That's a big problem So they're all trying to figure that that out and from a Netflix point of view, you know, you're right It's true that that they don't need to have like two massive hits that are proven Although they do obviously with some of their shows like you know stranger things But you know if you listen to read Hastings he talks about that core 10,000 right knows that 10,000 people They just love a show they talk to other people and those other people subscribe to Netflix just because of that conversation That's a pretty genius idea right when you think about it. Well, and it is word of mouth It just real take this real quickly It's word of mouth that is how I find out to watch pole dark or or anything else So that that was a suggestion that someone who works with my wife had and we started watching it That seems to be how I discovered new things go ahead Jack or with programs like the slash film cast which you can find It slash film cast calm What a great idea, I'll check it out Jeff you should it's got delightful hosts The problem with your book analogy Tom is you know one of the biggest problems I have in my life is a first world problem. I'll admit but Deciding what to read next I get into Massive analysis paralysis I will spend I could have read a book in the time It takes me to decide which book to read because I'm on good reads. I'm on Amazon I'm like, oh man I got a really decide which name you should join a book club like sword and laser at sword laser com I have delightful hosts And it's becoming the same thing with TV shows because no longer is it I'll watch the show at 8 o'clock to 8 30 on a Tuesday on NBC It's 14 hours of television go and if you go, oh, I watched a couple of episodes people go You didn't watch enough of it to even have an opinion about this right? Five and so my wife and I when we're deciding what show to watch next it is like I am I am I have like Glasses and I've you know, I'm looking at the text Invest 14 hours in this show or that show. Yeah, it's it's intense man You just reminded me we used to do a thing where we would say hey, I missed cheers. What happened, right? No one ever though. It's spoiler alert. I you know, please don't tell me what happened That's friendship ruining stuff because you can easily go find out yourself by watching it Which you didn't used to be able to do Going back to kind of the creator side of it Just for a second and yeah the fragmentation and and knowing that not everybody even if they really wanted to watch your show Or would like it if they discovered it is not gonna discover it or they're not gonna have time knowing that the options for people who make Compellion productions, you know whether it's movies or TV or whatever Are so much better than they used to be I'm actually Helping produce a feature film and we none of us have ever produced a feature film before so we're kind of flying blind Well back in the day, it's like well, do you know somebody who works as a head of a studio or could you? Possibly like get lucky and get recognized at Sundance or one of the other film festivals if not You're selling DVDs out on the boardwalk, you know, but we have You know, we still might not be super successful But we might because we have a lot of options, you know and exploring those options rather than just be like being like We're nobody's we'll just never make any money off of this Is is heartening? Yeah, absolutely. There are more ways for people to see your stuff than ever before and also more stuff for people to see than ever before so it's You know it has reached equilibrium and all of it's a little intense, but it is all As encouraging as it is challenging and it doesn't mean we're getting more better quality productions because of that I think I think that's probably true. We're getting more diversity to which I think it's not a bad thing I think we have the first foot cinematography For you know the nomination ever African-American woman. I mean that's to me. That's nothing but a good thing because I like Wow played off during the diversity talk, right? I know just like a real award show No, it's an excellent point it's a it's an excellent point Andrew I was actually a Gallifrey one and there were a panel of writers talking about That very fact that they they're allowed to do things now that they weren't before so All right, let's get to our final topic of the round table This is the one chosen by people at the advisor level on our patreon and what they asked was How do you think crowdfunding is affecting the development of new technology? Will we get less new technology because companies stop wanting to take risks and Consumers lose interest in crowdfunding because they have been burned in the past and now we were talking about this in our discord and kind of hit on four classes of Crowdfunding there's the total failure, right? That's the headline grabbing one never shipped ripped people off, right? That definitely happens shipped but failed something like the oh, yeah game console it shipped people got their their console It just never took off. They couldn't maintain a business out of it Then there's pebble which was a huge success multiple times on Kickstarter, but just couldn't maintain the momentum So it's a success as a crowdfunding effort But it didn't ultimately end up being a successful business or at least it didn't get a chance because it got bought and shut down And then of course, there's Oculus, right? That's that's the huge success story there There's also a big company that uses crowdfunding as a promotion Sony does this all the time I went and I found a few different studies on this that I'll throw out here before we we get our panelists opinions Nating Schultz wrote a book in 2015 called the relevance of crowdfunding That shows that crowdfunding potentially shortens the development cycle of new products enabling an earlier market entry Then there's a study by Michael stanko and David H. Hennard in the research policy journal Where their results in Hennard? Yes now they have solid research that is Reproducible and peer reviewed so let's let's be nice Results indicate that the amount of funding raised during a crowdfunding campaign does not significantly impact the later market performance of the crowdfunded product While the number of backers Does so it's not about the money. It's about you get people invested in your product and then you start talking to them And finally HEC Paris research paper in July of 2017 called does the crowd support innovation? Said a single claim of novelty Increases project funding by a 200% like this is a new thing nobody seen it before a claim of usefulness Increases project funding by about 1200% like you can do this with this thing back us and you'll get it However, they found in their research that if you were novel and useful No one's ever seen this before and it does this amazing helpful thing it lowered funding By about 26% that's not a lot compared to the raise But it doesn't it's not what you think it would be right and novelty and usefulness is sort of a definition of innovation, right? It's new and useful. I don't want both of them at the same time though. Come on. Yeah They said our findings are encouraging because they suggest the crowd strongly supports novelty and usefulness However, our findings are disappointing because the premise of crowdfunding is to support projects that are innovative That are both novel and useful rather than projects that are only novel or only useful. So The research is is still mixed right now basically is what this saying it It is a tool That companies can use companies are still using it in a promotional way. It does seem though if you go to Kickstarter It's more about Fan oriented things than it is about innovative products. Do you guys agree with that? Yes, I think I think that's what it's become and it's it is become I don't think it is What it set out to be anymore, which is a way for something that would not exist to maybe exist I think that's that was a beautiful idea that existed for a short period of time But it eventually became something else, which is a glorified storefront a pre-order system you know Emotional tool a weighted established community all those things that we're talking about some good some less good I don't necessarily think that is That impunes the concept of crowdfunding or Kickstarter and specifically But it isn't what it was which which was a really cool thing which was like Oh my gosh, I would not be able to have a VR headset if it weren't for this Website where I could give money to these guys to actually make it in their garage Which I think was a beautiful thing. It's just not that anymore really. Yeah, I agree I mean, I think it's it's sad that that this idea of democratizing innovation, right? Which is kind of what this is is not driven driving people to Necessarily learn. I think it is and they're they're learning how to you know go through the process of making a product and being a Product manager. I'm telling you was a very difficult job because you have to be so multi-threaded and doing so many different things Not just gaining money and you know finance or but it's really about a lot of you know It's the toughest job. I think out there, but what it should be I think is like kind of like what you know The analogy that I come up with is sort of the you know better access to like the UC system the Sunni system or the educational systems in California and New York where if you have if you're the dirt poorest kid in California and New York or whatever you can still get the top-level access to good education and to the right people that are really smart They can help teach you. I think that's what it should be for I've been really disappointed by a lot of companies that use it just simply as a marketing gimmick I think that's really sort of bastardizing what it should be as of you know as a thing I love the idea of democratization of just a great idea But at the end of the day it should be more about I think that I think Kickstarter is doing more That's getting people in contact with the right people to help them to educate them rather than just throwing money at people I Look at this and I think it is another example of a pattern that We have had the internet around long enough to identify which is new technologies Especially those powered by the internet tend to come in with the promise of changing everything, right? It's gonna democratize It's gonna upset. It's gonna overturn disruption disrupt. Thank you. That's exactly it It's gonna disrupt the existing order and then it turns out well actually what we've ended up with is for new dominant companies What we've ended up with is for new dominant Maybe not for but but a collection of new dominant celebrities on YouTube. It ends up Coalescing into a version of what it replaces. You're we're saying but they're they're they can be either novel or it or useful Possibly that may be exactly what I'm saying But but what what I was going to say is they do lower barriers, right? So even though we now have a set of YouTube celebrities and people complain like ah It's impossible to become as successful at them because they're sucking up all the eyeballs And they've already been successful and so it's really hard to break in But it used to be you had to know somebody at a studio in order to make a thing happen And now anybody can start broadcasting. It's lowered the barrier It doesn't ensure success or totally disrupt the situation. Well, I you know, I think cultures made by people I don't think it's made by products necessarily I mean, I think a lot of marketing companies are like what you know, no, this is all our culture is products You know, but that's not the case You know people make people make things happen and change and people create companies and have passions and have Continuity and and team and you know that that kind of thing can really change The perspective of what we expect as people that use this stuff as users And I think it's really important to keep in mind here. That's what Kickstarter should be It should be enabling people to talk to one another to connect with one another to create change It not just a product to be you know necessarily be successful But to create businesses that are that are critical thinking and trying to contribute something and you know I mean I kind of give uh, you know Uh zuckerberg props are backing up and saying, you know what? We're not going to make as much money We're going to try to get this right. This is a social tool. We have responsibilities and you know, I mean personally I saw it. I really was unhappy with what was happening in facebook for the longest time Do I feel like it's just bringing more myopia into this in a dangerous place and I think that's really happened Um, but I have to say, you know social ever since the I've been on the well or wasn't the well way back And god, I didn't even want to tell you when I was on the well back in the early early night Listen, just saying you're on the well tells enough. Yeah, exactly Yes, that's true Um, but even back then before the worldwide web, right? It was about people. It was not about selling products It was not about companies per se. You know, and I think that's really That's that's one of the important parts of the internet what this is to me the crowdfunding model um, and yeah, I'm gonna echo a lot of your everybody else's sentiments somewhat but It kind of reminds me of you know back in the day when you know, at least a few of us here worked at tech tv together and it's like Yeah, we had some message boards and you could email but for the most part There, you know, there was you weren't really talking to the folks that were watching the show You just hope that they did no that's because you weren't on the web team sarah. We we were your shield Well, all right, you know what I mean, you know, it's like before sort of the social networking where it's like It's a two two big conversation, right? Yeah, totally and if for some reason I decided like Well, I'm not going to be part of the conversation. You know, the person's going to be like you're not trying that hard So the crowdfunding model to me is great in the sense that You have to really put yourself out there like hear the perks, you know, if you want to, you know, get in early You know, here's my product. Let me tell you about it. Watch my video that I you know, I you know I'm really trying to to to connect with as many people as possible to show you how passionate I am about this And because and that's a good thing. I think in general that's a really good thing But it also, you know, if if if somebody makes a cool smart watch, right? And I know who they are I know, you know, I've backed them. I you know, I was a you know Told friend rallied behind the whole thing and it falls apart I am more inclined to just be like will you suck as a person because you couldn't make this happen And you made me believe in you and I'm not saying this has actually happened But I think that this is something that ends up happening to people where it's like, you know We can't have these children running the you know, we you know, leave the watches to the you know, the swiss watchmakers and And you know, it's it's you know, it's like you have too many people who have great ideas and ambitions but not necessarily the execution or the skill And because of that, I I think it and it's not, you know, I could also buy a watch from a well-respected Manufacturer and not like the watch, but I don't know who made it. I'm not talking to anybody there But yeah, I think it ends up being The the problem being you can't get rich on Kickstarter Unless you are lucky like literally named Palmer lucky. That is the only way To get rich so all right, uh before we wrap up here, we had a little bit of news break during the show Sarah Yeah, we did, you know, we'd like to give you give you guys a few headlines at the top of our roundtables But we did have some news come in which is significant I think to a lot of folks who use Dropbox because Dropbox has finally filed at It's going public looking to raise 500 million according according to the IPO filing that was unsealed by the sec today It's going to be listed on the nasdaq as dbx And the thing is is that until now a lot of investors didn't have a lot of information About the financials. So, you know, just we'll just run down a couple of highlights quickly Revenue was 1.11 billion in 2017, which is up 31% 2016 There was a net loss of 111.7 million in 2017, which is narrower than a 2016 loss of 210.2 million Okay, so the loss decreased as well average revenue per paid user was 1.1191 million Up from 2016 but down from 2015 500 million registered users Okay, so 5 million strong 100 million signed up since the beginning of 2017. Okay. Yeah, so that's what 20 20 users More than 11 million paying users and CEO and co-founder drew houston houston I guess it is it was just in new york has 24.4 percent of voting power in the company and sequoia capital Is 24.8 percent Making more revenue and losing less money is not a bad direction to be going in so Yeah, yeah, good for Dropbox. All right. Let's check in with len peralta who has been busily illustrating the show Len, what have you drawn for us? Well, you know, one of the things about the the Roundtable shows is there's so much information to take from So I have to kind of take the Two of the stories from our guests today, which is big data and media And when I thought about big data, I just thought about this big monster crushing big media with his hands In a hulk-like fashion saying big data see media overload big data crush media Algorithm So so it may not talk exactly to both of those But it does the best it can with all the information that was posted today The other thing that's kind of cool about this about this poster is this is an actual poster It's 11 by 17, which is larger than what? I usually do which eight and a half by 11. So the Roundtable shows made them a little bit bigger Which is sitting because it's big data. Does this embody your nightmares, Jeff? Yeah, it pretty much does. Is that is that the algorithm? It's very good. We just call him out. But yeah, I think that's his new name. It is now It's his name now. So he said you could call him out You can call me Eddie That's fantastic. Go get it at Len Peralta store.com or even if you just want to look at it It's it's it's fun to look at Len Peralta store.com and uh, hey, we took the 3d glass wearing mantis But which by the way, I think you guys talk about how we have concerns as well We took that art that Len drew of that and put it on a t-shirt in the daily tech news show store So if you want to wear some a lens art on your chest Which you should cover yourself at certain times Daily tech news show.com slash store is the place to go to get a tiny mantis shirt Think of the conversation starter at the cafe wearing your 3d praying mantis Pretty glass wearing praying mantis, you know, just think about that. Exactly. You're gonna make some real world connections Good starter. Uh, thanks so much to the folks who made our Roundtable possible. Jeff canada and Andrew Han Jeff We're gonna start with you because we want you to be able to tell folks where they can keep up with everything That you're up to these days. Well, you can always follow me on twitter I'm at Jeff canada, which is spelled with two n's and one t and I do several shows I do a video game show called dlc, which you can find at five by five dot tv slash dlc I do a movie and tv review show called the slash film cast you can find that at slash film cast dot com And I do a comedy science show called we have concerns, which you can find at we have concerns dot com Excellent Andrew Han. Thank you as well for being here. What are you up to these days? Well, I'm doing all the super secret tech and media stuff with big clients these days, which I can never talk about But uh, you can check out what we do at maru matchbox. We have a lot of great information and consulting work It's you know corporate, but it's fun. We like doing it. So That's maru spelled like the cat matchbox.com Excellent folks if you like these shows we could do more of them in a month Our next milestone is just $2,000 away would get us to two round table episodes a month We were talking to because we know some of you like to have the regular old episode on friday So if we get to that next milestone We'll do another version of the regular friday show for folks as well So join on in the fun or up your pledge and get some of our cool perks like extended shows Exclusive columns and hot takes and more at patreon.com slash dtns Got a question got a comment Just want to talk to us and know that we will listen and and hopefully reply to you We actually almost reply to everybody our email address is feedback at daily tech news show at dot com We're live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 1 30 utc at elfkeek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And our website is daily tech news show dot com back with all the mobile world congress news on monday With lamar wilson talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this brover Oh the round table templates I didn't notice So good that was really fun you guys. Thank you for doing that I have to log off Someone came to my door while I was on Are they still waiting for you? I have no idea my son came up and said there's somebody I'm like, okay Hello, I can't come down. So Uh, but it was good seeing all you guys. Yeah. Thanks, Len. Good. Good art. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much Good to meet you as well. And uh, we'll see you in two weeks We'll hang around and pick the title of the show and just kind of gab the rest of the time But you guys take off whenever you need to all right. I'll see you guys. Great to meet you, Andrew Yeah, it's good to meet you too. Jeff. I'll take off too. Thanks guys. Good night to talk to you guys again Thank you guys so much for being on the show. It was great Good to see all you guys. Uh, everybody have a wonderful weekend. You too. Bye. Thank you Thank you What should we call it? Uh, guerrilla rhythm. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, let's look what do we have here? Big data is watching you. It's one of my faves Um Big data is watching is not bad. That's that's a good one. I like that one. It's it's kind of It also has that rock well, you know, so True that's what I thought of as well because I'm an old guy and every reverts I make either happens from the 70s 80s or 90s It's true. Tom it never never tires of telling. I wasn't gonna say anything that time. You beat me to it um I don't know. I really like that one big data is watching you. I mean, let's throw out a few others just just for You know, just for a few others of your favorites just to recognize them But I'm kind of cool with that. I was snapping at Evan Spiegel's spikes Leave that one alone. Spiegel's pay Spiegel or Spiegel Uh, let's see snap that golden parachute Get it. That's that's pretty good too. Actually. Oh, well, this one's great The calls are coming from inside the repair center. Yes, I thought that might be a little too long Uh, don't pick your nose. It's always a fave. Um, well, you say that and not just as a title But just in any setting social you basically say it every day as soon as we go live or before right before we go Some people you never know. Sometimes you gotta consciously let people know. That's true. Um I'll I'll I'll gorilla them. I'll gorilla them I'll gorilla them I do like not all old people and then in parentheses fall for scams. I'm not sure if that's lost on Yeah, it might not work as a title, but it's worth recognizing here. It's funny or clever, right? Yeah Clever's one of my dad will not go for like Bank inducements or like, you know, low low loan offers. Oh, that's fun You'll see is as seen on tv like a little gadget or something. He'll buy it. It's like buy this That's so funny. My father-in-law is the opposite He's always about to fall for a mortgage scam of some sort and we're like, no No, it's not a real is it a real bank like No, uh, but but as seen on tv stuff, he never seems to fall for it Like he bought one of those brother that ball that would go into the laundry He would you wouldn't need to use detergent. He bought one of those. It's like this thing doesn't clean. Why did you buy it? This has only full bucks. Do you put do you put detergent in it? No, you don't put anything That's how was it supposed to work. I don't know It's just ricochets and the dirt. It's like a little plastic ball with like Blue liquid in it doesn't ever come out. I'm gonna guess it was had something to do with ions They all always do something like that. Yeah, something like, you know You know So the dirt just floats the ionic attraction cleans your laundry easier without degrading it I yelled at my desk. It's just use this. It's you know, use tide or something I did I have to admit I watched a single just one uh tide pod um video where somebody eats a tide pod and um that's for science Well or or for page views And it it's truly one of the strangest Things no, I meant you watched it for science. I watched it for science. That's right I watched it for this moment to tell you all about it Uh, yeah, so you don't have to and it's it's really I don't you know I mean bros. I seen bros, right? I mean I could think of all sorts of things where you're like, it's nonsensical But don't eat laundry detergent. No, it's poison. I'm especially uh annoyed by those because I Am allergic to tide Oh, so the I mean first of all the idea of eating any laundry detergent is bad But then eating one that I'm actually allergic to makes me even more What is it about tide specifically that? You know what I mean because I'm allergic to certain detergents that have a uh fragrance, you know, I mean I don't get fragrance stuff It's not I Am allergic to the dial antibacterial soap The bar soap that's because you are a bacterium. A lot of people don't realize this about you. Uh, it's true I'm literally because it tries to kill you Well, I I took a shower her using that soap And around like at night I went to sleep and my body literally lit up like a thousand ants were biting at me at the same time every part of my body And literally had welts like it had allergic reactions like I was not only was my skin on fire it was super itchy and you ever get get like Uh like poison ivy or something where it inflames your skin to the point It feels your hands or your skin feels like a mitten like you just can't move it because the skin has gotten so swollen I was like that and I said, oh my god something I must have touched my you know touched something and I took another shower with the exact same soap I better clean it off. Oh, no I was gonna say how do you know it was a soap but it was Worse it's like it's the soap and I I was like I literally had to sweat it off for the next three hours I uh, I uh Yeah, the lonely detergent. Yeah, I have sensitive skins. It's like I whatever whatever tom has with tide specifically I I probably do too, but I've also noticed that um And it doesn't happen that often and I actually do eat a lot of fish But every once in a while and it's not even shellfish It's like it could be salmon. It could be you know shrimp pasta or whatever every so often No more than once a year. Maybe not even that much. I will break out in crazy hives So it's after seafood specifically, but I can never pinpoint What it is and I feel like it's more of the preparation of the seafood than the actual seafood itself Yeah, because it's never the same thing twice, but I mean it is and doesn't hurt and it doesn't last that long Um But if you saw me during that, you know, oh, let's call it two hour window You'd be like go to the emergency room. Wow. It it looks really bad Really bad. So lens drunken muscles that he's going to make later tonight Not for you. I mean clearly it's like I'm just cheating death every day because I'm eating all this fish Just you know knowing that that might happen at any moment. It really hasn't happened in a long time But but yeah, just it's the strangest thing, you know, what must be a preparation agreement Agree ingredient like yeah, it you know It it must be or some sort of bacteria that ends up on fish that's coming from a certain place or that's been You know frozen a certain way. I don't know but um But yeah, it's you know, it's not why are you spamming that chat room with jet.com links roger Is that your I'm trying to show the laundry the the the wonder ball the laundry. Oh, that's the wonder ball Got it. Oh, you can do mystic wonders I was looking at my dad's like, why did you buy this thing? Blend of minerals and magnetics lowers the water's surface tension making it wetter So it can clean fabric fibers more deeply. Wow, this is even crazier than I thought that is rich. It makes the water wetter. Yeah That's a good one Like I see on tv and watch this You know what your problem is your water's not wet your water's not wet enough too much surface tension on tv balls Throw it in there. Yeah I mean stoic squirrels not wrong. He says first of all all soap makes water wetter Like in it as far as like reducing surface tension and all of that. Yeah Uh two this isn't soap No, it's for mystic wonders. Yeah That's sort of like um and and someone out there probably is using it. So it's great And I'm glad it's working for you, but it's like those like deodorant crystal rocks Where you like it's not deodorant It's like a crystal rock And you use it in place of deodorant and it's supposed to be like better for you and won't give you Alzheimer's Okay, because it doesn't have aluminum in it, right? Right. Yeah, but it's like it also doesn't have Any of the qualities that I'm looking for Like deodorizing in a deodorant slash antiperspirant And yeah, it's it's you see him out that you know Food stores and stuff like that where I'm like, I just don't I don't I don't know how that's happening If you really don't want to use actual deodorant or antiperspirant just wash really well Like that is better than a crystal stuck up here When I was in japan, I remember seeing Uh an undergarment that goes under your undershirt But basically there's these two cotton pads that go in the armpits And that was to soak up all the excessive sweat so you wouldn't stink Okay, that that all by is an at least an actual anti. It's not an antiperspirant per se, but it's a It's soaking up the purse, but wouldn't then the pads just Yeah, I mean Yeah, and then but then the material is going to have the smell You know when I um, I remember that in a wardrobe department that I used to work with um Sometimes, you know, they'd put a shirt on, you know, somebody and it's like, I don't know. Maybe that person was just like Walking outside and you know, you start to be like, oh, no, we're getting that and so there were little inserts they weren't it wasn't to like soak up the smell, but it was to Keep you from pitting right and looking weird on television And that was like I remember the first time I saw it. I was like, what in the world is that? Where do you buy these, you know, because there's this whole like Market for You know, you know, double-sided tape and like stuff that wardrobe people know about and the rest of us just don't or most of us don't And you know, there've been a few times, you know over the years where you know, maybe I was like nervous or something where I'm like I wish I had those little older pads Based on what I'm wearing I do think a lot of this stuff is over marketed. Uh But but Uh The laundry ball this is killing. No, it's great. It's hilarious. I think it's it's it's like I mean, I think it's funny because I do think you can wash your clothes in just water And they'll be cleaner than they than if you hadn't and that's that's what this is trading on Right is somebody who doesn't realize that Uses this thing and goes well, they're actually pretty clean. Oh, well, yeah I mean you you did rinse them. I mean, but they're not as clean as if you'd actually used I mean really you just need in that really what the soap does is separate the fabric from this whatever soil the garment Yeah, it's uh, it's uh, what is it a surfactant And uh, really you just I mean, I mean when I mean that was a gift of polyester, right? It was the indestructible garment that you could just throw in the wash And not have to worry about shrinkage or or anything else because it's synthetic Well, I learned a lot today. Yeah, me too Wonderball Mostly about how how a rot in our future is Uh full of wonder balls and Yep People eat detergent Not using it on their clothes. Don't eat detergent. Yeah, we'll do that. Just don't I uh, I Uh, I was going to say something to you guys now. I forget. I don't know. It's Friday Yeah, no, this was a great this was a great episode It was it was a fantastic episode. It was a short week at least for us because we didn't have a show on Monday But I still felt like it was a long week Not I forgot that we didn't do a show on Monday when I went back and I did the promo for uh for text message I was like, oh, right. We didn't I think it's because just so much happened this week. And so yeah, it was a full week. That's true I had a lot going on outside the show too. I think that makes a difference Yeah, I had uh, I had to get my wonder ball and eat some tide pods Oh, no, I didn't do that Why are we getting so many emails from team anchor? Oh Uh, because I told them to go ahead and submit daily tech headlines to anything that we aren't already submitted to Well in that case, hey Now it all makes sense. That's why it's like now on spotify now on yeah I was like now on apple home pod. What in the heck? All right, cool What in the heck Oh dear get a rope. Uh, all right. Well, let's uh, roger. Let's wrap up the stream I'll stay on after words on audio because I have a couple of things to mention directly to patrons and then We'll see you guys on monday. Thank you so much again. Awesome show awesome week