 We are very pleased to welcome everyone to today's panel discussion on holding Russia accountable for the atrocities They are committing in Ukraine. My name is Lisa Grande and I'm the head of the United States Institute of Peace USIP was established by the US Congress in 1984 as a non-partisan public institution Dedicated to preventing mitigating and helping to resolve violent conflict abroad We are honored today to welcome the ambassador of Ukraine to the United States Ambassador Aksana Makarovah We are honored to be joined by Curtis Reed the senior director of multilateral affairs at the National Security Council by professor Jane Strom Seth the Francis Kubel Brown professor of international law at Georgetown University and by ambassador Bill Taylor The former US ambassador to Ukraine and USIP's vice president for Russia and Europe For many of us what's happened this past month in Ukraine is unimaginable a founding member of the United Nations and a Permanent member of the UN Security Council has invaded a sovereign country with the intention to take over its territory Russia's unprovoked Justified invasion to take over the territory of Ukraine threatens the sanctity of Ukraine has resulted in the death and displacement of Ukrainian citizens is Destroying the country's infrastructure and is a violation of nearly every aspect of the global system of peace and stability that Russia itself Helped to establish 75 years ago Russia needs to be held accountable for launching a war of aggression Against a sovereign state and for the crimes that is committing during the conflict itself We have to do this because accountability for war crimes is one of the most important principles of global governance and civilized nations Ukraine is leading the effort to hold Russia accountable Filing claims at the International Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights Already the International Court of Justice has issued a preliminary ruling Dismissing Russia's claim of genocide as a pretext for the invasion and calling upon Russia to halt all military operations in Ukraine's territory More steps are being taken by other components of the International Justice System The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has taken the initiative to open an investigation into alleged crimes and The UN Human Rights Council has established a commission of inquiry. These are important steps, and they are very positive What we hope to do today is discuss the additional steps that can be taken by the US by all of us to hold Russia accountable We invite everyone to join the dialogue via the US IP chat box on the event page For those of you who are joining us in person or virtually around the world Please use the hashtag at Ukraine US IP It is my distinct honor To welcome to the podium the ambassador of Ukraine to the United States Ambassador Makarov was appointed to her current position in 2021 prior to this she served with distinction as The Ukraine as Ukraine's minister of finance facilitating the country's economic revival introducing gender-oriented budgeting and Coordinating partnerships with the International Monetary Fund in the past weeks. The ambassador has worked tirelessly On behalf of the Ukrainian people Madam ambassador. Thank you very much president Lisa grande the ambassador Taylor Dear dr. Strom Thess and mr. Reed I would like to thank the US Institute of Peace for Doing this very very important initiative, and it's not just one initiative It's a joint work that we are starting not today But today is the highlight when we get together to discuss very important issue on which all of us should be working Very hard and closely for the next Days weeks months Years, whatever it will take in order to bring justice, which is very important Peace is something that we need urgently But justice is something that we will need always and we have to keep focus on it this very day the 22nd of March is a sad day We just looked with my team that in 1933 This is the day in which the first concentration camp has been Created by Nazi regime in the how near Munich Exactly on this day. It was Probably not the first but the first very visible sign of the atrocities in Europe that Nazi Germans created and Unfortunately today the history repeats itself and today again in the center of Europe now in Ukraine We are talking about atrocities about genocide about war crimes and crimes against humanity On 24th of February After eight years of war because we always want everyone to keep focus that Russia attacked us in 2014 That's when they have illegally annexed Crimea. That's when they have illegally attacked part of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts But on 24th of February They have attacked us again with a full-fledged war They air-bumped with cruise missiles bombs and everything else our kindergarten schools residential areas The homes and schools are destroyed peaceful neighbor who's are turned into rebels innocent civilians die This actions have no military objectives This is something that we hear not only from Ukraine not only from the US government or other governments We are yet to find any expert who would explain what is the strategy? By bombing and killing children and women This genocide is what it is. It's the genocide against Ukrainian people and I am convinced that In this century like 80 years ago everyone who's Responsible for it should be brought to justice We are defending our native land the Ukrainians are on defense here. The situation is very black and white It was Russia that crossed the border. It was Russia that attacked Ukraine even though we had all the Legal grounds to return Crimea and parts of the Netsk and Lugansk territories back Never in the past eight years Ukraine planned or tried any military offensives. We only focused on diplomatic solutions So it's only Russia. There is an aggressor here But now when we are facing this and for the past Many days are fighting in this fight against the what before was called the second Largest or whatever army of the planet Which I think we all should question seriously now I can only recall the President Roosevelt's phrase that the only thing that we have to fear is the fear itself and This is something that we want all the world Also to embrace and feel So we call on everyone to hold not only mr. Putin and his accomplices, but everyone each person That is responsible for this aggression and today we have to launch all possible legal instruments as Madam president already mentioned So it includes the International Court of Justice. It includes the International Criminal Court It includes the European Court of Human Rights We also are exploring the possibility to create a special tribunal because we believe that the atrocities of this massive proportion Deserve to be addressed in in the most public and most Legal ways, so what have we achieved so far so far as you know that Russian crimes already have been addressed by the International Court of Justice in the Hague on March 16th the hearing of the ICJ ruled in favor of provisional order instructing Russia to halt the invasion in Ukraine now not surprisingly Despite the fact that order has been Binding on Russia under the UN Charter The Kremlin openly and blatantly decided to disregard it and this I think is a very important moment for all of us Not only to reflect or discuss but act upon Because if Russia wants to sit on two chairs at once we should say no On the one hand it does not commit to the obligatory ruling of the international court on the other It wants to continue enjoying all the privileges of international law We don't think that all civilized world and all countries who truly believe in UN and UN Charter should Should should allow that to happen So if they refuse as if they continue to refuse to comply with this law They should also relinquish all the rights and immunities granted per UN Charter and first and foremost It's veto rights under the UN Security Council. That is why Ukraine and our Representative our permanent representative to UN has been very vocal about it recently That we encourage the UN Security Council to exercise its duties in visitors in the article 94.2 under the UN Charter and the site upon measures to be taken in case they fail to comply With the obligations that they have We also encourage to join everyone to join the group of friends of account Accountability following the aggression against Ukraine co-founded by Albania, Colombia, Denmark and Marshall Islands and Netherlands and Ukraine The group will act as a forum among UN members for the discussion and Promotion of accountability measures in Ukraine following the Russian military aggression You also know that after the referral of the 39 states of the situation in Ukraine to the international criminal court in the Hague On March 16, the ICC prosecutor has opened an investigation into the current events in Ukraine and This prosecutors already started their work. They already started collecting evidence is on the ground and Ukrainian authorities are not only ready but already are cooperating actively with them and they are providing maximum assistance for this team so the prosecutor general of Ukraine and all the relevant law enforcement authorities which are involved in this Already are cooperating getting the all the all the evidence is transferred and Also, you know, we we all saw that Karim Khan in his part already said that he has seen many Pictures and video and everything from for example, Mariupol and other cities the suffering of people and deliberate actions by Russians To target civilians deliberate actions to do what is called by everyone a crime of war Now according to the data which you see now on the screen and it's data is already confirmed by Ukrainian law enforcement a Great number of these victims despite the fact that we are in active war has been already documented by Ukrainian Law enforcement authorities. So it's it's everything. It's killing civilians. It's kidnapping. It's wartime sexual violence It's unnecessary destruction of civilian property actually targeting civilian property on purpose It's manipulation of the concept of genocide because while they are doing the war crimes and genocide in Ukraine We still until now hear the public officials from Russia essentially blaming us for some kind of Genocide we have planned against God knows whom We already lost 115 children and this is the information as of yesterday. I Honestly did not find Strengths to look at the statistics before working into this room because every day we are losing more and more They have made children a deliberate target, you know, it's it's again. It's not a war It's not how armed forces fight with armed forces They specifically target the civilians and they specifically want to terrorize us because again Let's all return back to the day the war started or the months is before that Everyone including everyone in Russia thought it's going to be a peaceful walk for them They will come and they will be greeted by some aliens by flowers They will take over Ukraine in days Kiev would fall in ours We've heard it all but the fact is that this is the fight that Ukraine now is fighting For almost a month, but this is the fight. This is a word that we are fighting for eight years and this is the struggle for our Independence and sovereignty and democracy which we are fighting for the past 400 years This is not something new to us. This is something we have been very vocal Throughout centuries trying to get across very simple point that Ukrainians are not Russians that we are separate country Separate people who want to live peacefully as we were before peaceful bread growers on our own land and Right now after 30 years of regained independence. We are ready to defend this land We will not give up. We will not surrender because this is the only home we have So we will be fighting and while we are fighting we are asking all the support that we can get In helping us of course to fight effectively and bring peace bring peace through victory bring peace Bring peace through strengths, but also find justice something that we are gathering today to discuss because We need all the support from all international organizations all the open criminal cases We are calling on all countries to actually open their individual Independent investigations already six countries open these cases now. It's Estonia Lithuania Germany Poland Slovakia and Sweden and Ukraine's prosecutor general works closely with them. We are doing our work in Ukraine We are doing our work with international organizations and international courts, but we would assist any country That sees it for what it is and that wants to prosecute them separately This is a global issue. This is not only an issue for Ukraine It's an issue for humanity and it's the issue of international rule of law the question that we all have to answer is not how to Save Ukraine or how to stop the war in Ukraine only the question is how do we reconstruct the world order and international rule of law as we knew it after the world war two How do we stop a? Authoritarian nuclear power that decided to attack a foreign country a neighboring sovereign country And if it's okay to attack Ukraine who can feel safe Can anyone feel safe if the only reason we are attacked is our Civilizational choice to be peaceful and democratic So I'm looking forward to this discussion. I think it's it's a great panel of experts who know a lot in it and I'm very glad that ambassador Taylor will be moderating this discussion when ambassador Taylor a couple of years ago In a peaceful time was a speaker at the diplomatic academy in Ukraine I was still a minister of finance then and I didn't even thought that I would not be a finance And I would turn into a diplomat myself, but I remember you presented a brilliant Talk which was titled the jungle grows back and the building that this this talk has been built on the Robert Kagan's book and You warned everyone in your talk and it was couple of years ago about Russia's growing revanchism about Russia actually returning to this through this revisionist and Politics into near imperial Ideas and and desires which again in Ukraine we knew it We felt it since 1991 when we regained independence But it was brilliant to hear it ambassador from you and I think it's our duty now It's our duty now to stop this war while it's in Ukraine To protect Ukraine as the peaceful country that is fighting for its home But also to protect the foundations of the Western or civilized civilization Whatever we want to call it and to roll the jungle back To say that no we can be Peaceful we can be democratic and we still can protect ourselves Against a brutal enemy. Thank you very much and I look forward to this discussion Ambassador, thank you so much for your comments and the privilege of you being with us today I'm very pleased to introduce the members of today's panel starting first with professor Jane Stromsef Jane is the Francis Cabal Brown professor of international law at Georgetown University She has served as the deputy ambassador at large in the office of global criminal justice at the US State Department and as the senior advisor on the rule of law and International humanitarian policy at the Department of Defense where she worked on the establishment of an atrocity prevention board Jane has also served as the director for a multilateral and humanitarian affairs at the National Security Council and As attorney advisor in the office of the legal advisor at the Department of State We're honored to present Curtis Reed Curtis is the director of multilateral affairs at the National Security Council Curtis has served as the senior advisor to the national security advisor Susan Rice and was the director for Multilateral affairs at the National Security Council where he coordinated us government engagement with the UN Curtis has also served as the political counsel at the US mission to the UN Where he was primarily responsible for the Security Council's work related to the Middle East We're very pleased to present ambassador Bill Taylor. Bill is the vice president of the US's USIP's newest center the Center for Russia and Europe in 2019 he served as a charge a defer at the US Embassy Kip and Was the US ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009 during the Arab Spring? Bill oversaw US assistance and support to Egypt Tunisia Libya and Syria a warm welcome to all of you Jane if you allow we're gonna start with the first question to you and what we're hoping you will do is To walk through with all of us the currently existing justice mechanisms Which are available to address or redress the types of war crimes? Which the ambassador talked about in her Comments to us and that would include the unprovoked aggression where Russia invades a sovereign country, but also the crimes committed during the conflict itself and As you and I were discussing before we came in this morning We'd be very interested in your views on which of these mechanisms you actually think is the most effective Great. Thank you. Thank you Lisa and to everyone at USIP for bringing us together on these important issues I'm honored to be here As the ambassador discussed so powerfully the brave people of Ukraine are enduring horrific atrocity crimes in the aftermath of an unlawful unprovoked aggression launched by Vladimir Putin and those Accountable must be those responsible must be held accountable in fact failure to stand up to those Who order and commit such crimes only emboldens their sense of impunity and Putin's past aggressive acts and atrocities in Ukraine and elsewhere have only emboldened him and that impunity has to stop and to answer Lisa's excellent question I think there are international and national mechanisms available right now with Jurisdiction over those who bear individual criminal responsibility, and I would highlight in particular the international criminal court and National proceedings in Ukraine and in other countries with jurisdiction as the ambassador herself Noted so first the international criminal court based in the Hague has jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute Individuals responsible for crimes against humanity war crimes and genocide committed on the territory of Ukraine Ukraine declared its acceptance of the court's jurisdiction eight years ago, and again in 2015 following Russia's military Intervention in Crimea and the Donbass essentially giving the court jurisdiction from 2013 on to the present day and as the as the ambassador mentioned the ICC prosecutor has Started investigation sent a team of investigators to Ukraine has himself personally been to Ukraine Spoken with Ukrainian officials including president Zelensky And he has also emphasized repeatedly that the intentional targeting of civilians and of civilian objects such as hospitals and Indiscriminate attacks are war crimes prosecuted to a prosecutable by the court That there's no statute of limitations for these crimes Sending a clear message to all those who commit those abuses that they may one day face justice And I think the ICC is in a very strong position to make a difference here both because of The jurisdiction that it possesses the fact that the prosecutor has shown such determination to act Expeditiously and effectively and because of the cooperation that Ukraine is is indicated it will provide in fact president Zelensky said he wanted to provide Maximum assistance to the ICC investigation team and the prosecutor in turn said he wants to work very closely with The national authorities to gather evidence and to ensure that those responsible for international crimes are held accountable in a court of law Another factor that makes I think the ICC an important Venue for justice is that heads of state and other officials do not enjoy Immunity under the court statute so the potential to reach higher level officials is something that the ICC can potentially do Of course the ICC's ability to make a difference will depend on support Not only from Ukraine, but from other countries support financial support support with personnel support in gathering evidence And in many other ways, and I think it's vital that the US be among the countries that provide such support I think the US could be especially helpful in providing evidence linking war crimes to specific Responsible individuals because that that linkage is often very you know challenging and it's vitally important to actually holding particular people Accountable there is however one gap in the ICC's jurisdiction in this case And that is over the crime of aggression, which is particularly unfortunate given the unprovoked Unlawful aggression of Russia against Ukraine And that is because the ICC only has jurisdiction over the crime of aggression if the states that are involved are both parties to the court and currently Neither Ukraine nor Russia are parties to the court So that is a gap in the court's ability to address one of the most significant crimes at issue, but there are ways to address this and they include supporting national prosecutions of The crime of aggression Ukraine has that crime in its domestic criminal code And also as the ambassador mentioned potentially creating a hybrid court by combining National and international Actors with Ukraine's consent potentially through an agreement with the United Nations and Potentially modeled on the special court for Sierra Leone So in other words supporting Ukrainian prosecutions, but Reinforcing that with the assistance and the involvement of international actors And if you created an internationalized court then you'd be able to address problems potential problems of immunity under customary international law for high-level officials. So that is some of the ways in which The ICC can make a difference and potentially be supplemented Secondly and and here I just want to underscore the very important point that the ambassador made about the importance of national proceedings Ukraine Has itself incorporated war crimes and crime of crime of aggression into its criminal code It created a special war crimes unit that can investigate these crimes It's shown extraordinary determination in investigating and gathering evidence and is welcome support by the US and the EU and others In in these important domestic efforts and the ICC will only be able to prosecute a small number of cases given its Global mandate to address atrocities in so many parts of the world and so national prosecutions in Ukraine will be essential and indeed There may well already be some Depending on where the evidence leads Some Russian forces currently held in Ukraine that might potentially be subject to prosecution by national courts In addition as the ambassador mentioned there are other national courts in Europe that have jurisdiction over Atrocity crimes and they are beginning to investigate and what's so important about this is this can help build a web of accountability a broader Sort of network and web of accountability That sends a message to those who commit these horrific crimes that they can run but they cannot hide and they will enjoy no safe haven And so I think building that web of accountability through national prosecutions that supplement the work of the ICC I think those are the most Vital and important ways to proceed. I will mention just briefly also a third mechanism Which is the UN Human Rights Council's creation of a commission of inquiry to investigate human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law Standing up this mechanism urgently I think is vital because there are so many civil society organizations that have been gathering and documenting Evidence of crimes and this commission of inquiry can help be a clearing house a storing house for these For these efforts, and I think it can also help assemble advanced technological tools to sort through the massive amount of information including videos and Social media and so forth to identify relevant information Relevant evidence and weed out misinformation and authenticate information So I think it can be a reinforcing mechanism for the national and the international Investigations and prosecutions that are so essential to accountability Professor, thank you for a very comprehensive and thorough walking through of the various mechanisms and and Curtis with your permission It leads to a question We look forward to your views on which is the role that the United States is playing Through the multilateral institutions to hold Russia accountable. Thank you Lees and first Let me start out by thanking the US Institute of Peace by for hosting us today and Thank you to ambassador Marker over for your very powerful words at the outset and thank you for president strong That's for laying out for us all the various options that we have to look at in Promoting accountability for Russia's actions in Ukraine just a you know to step back and think about the impact on the multilateral system I think that we can all agree that Russia's war against Ukraine is presenting the greatest challenge to the UN Charter and To our rules-based international system that we have seen in over a generation and we as the United States believe that it is That we must work in concert with our partners and allies One in support of the people of Ukraine But it also had more broadly in defense of the UN Charter in defense of democracy and in defense of the ideals That serve as the foundation for our post post World War two international order Russia's aggression against Ukraine highlights in particular the centrality of the principle of respecting national sovereignty and territorial integrity and The norm that no country can dictate another country's borders government or security alliances by force I'd like to share some comments on what we've been doing in the multilateral Space and across the UN system and then describe a bit how we're linking this to our accountability efforts as they relate to Ukraine Obviously, we recognize there's much more to be done I think we've already heard some interesting new ideas here today and look forward to hearing thoughts from those that are participating In the audience as well We are really using every multilateral tool at our disposal to isolate Russia for its war of choice Against Ukraine and to address the challenges that the people of Ukraine are facing and as someone that worked at our mission to the UN for five years. I can say we have really Kind of unearthed every every option every mechanism that we can think of To support the government and the people of Ukraine Working with our colleagues on the UN Security Council. We are shining a spotlight on Russia's actions We have held over half a dozen Security Council meetings since the war and Ukraine started And we have really used this to shine To bring clear attention to Russia's unilateral aggression against Ukraine I think that this has been particularly important in terms of dispelling Russian disinformation Russia's narrative thrives off of disinformation and using the Security Council sessions I think has allowed us to share Declassified information other evidence that we have that directly disputes Russia's accusations And I think by sharing these early we've been able to get ahead of Russia's narrative and to show how isolated they are In in the mists that they are trying to Spread. I think this has been particularly important recently in terms of the concerns that we've shared About Russia's potential use of chemical and biological weapons and trying to be very clear about the information that we have there in response to the invasion Directly after we forced Russia to stand alone and to veto a UN Security Council resolution Denouncing its aggression against Ukraine The resolution that the United States co-drafted with Albania Prompted the majority of the Security Council to condemn Russia publicly and I think there were some really potent statements Including by one in particular by Kenya where their Kenyan ambassador poignantly explained that even though Kenya did not draw its own borders The kind of fundamentals of the international system make it essential that all countries Respect borders and do not seek to redraw them through force Following Russia's veto in the Security Council We successfully called for an extraordinary Emergency special session of the General Assembly using the uniting for peace mechanism, which is something that the Security Council has not done in over 40 years Working in concert with concert with our allies. We garnered over 141 votes for the General Assembly resolution condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine Turning maybe to some of the specialized agencies in Vienna earlier this month The United States supported the strong and unequivocal resolution tabled by Canada and Poland at an extraordinary meeting of the IAE's Board of Governors to condemn in the strongest terms Russia's actions in Ukraine Including its forceful seizure of nuclear facilities and to express great concern with the threat that those actions pose to nuclear safety and security We're also using our interventions as the United States across the General Assembly the Security Council and other UN fora to highlight the risk of sexual and gender-based violence, especially for women and children who are fleeing Ukraine Turning now to some of the atrocities that were mentioned last week. You heard What President Biden said clearly on war crimes? Secretary of State Blinken has also said he believes that war crimes are being committed every single day We see more barbaric images and videos of what Russia is doing in Ukraine and we will hold Russia Accountable our experts across the government are in the process of gathering Analyzing and cataloging evidence of potential war crimes being committed in Ukraine And our goal is to turn this evidence that we gather over to international mechanisms that have launched investigations Into war crimes and other atrocities in Ukraine As professor strump this strump that mentioned in Geneva the United States Join countries from all over the world in voting overwhelmingly to establish a commission of inquiry to document Russia's human rights abuses against the Ukrainian people and that is evidence that can be used in future Prosecutions including for war crimes and will hopefully lead to accountability for some of the horrendous acts that we were seeing in Ukraine We're also pushing for accountability at the OSCE We're 45 members of the OSCE have activated the OSCE's Moscow mechanism and that is yet another avenue where we can catalog some of the evidence that is being collected We're also directly supporting the Ukrainian authorities including the office of the prosecutor general And in particular we're working with the war crimes unit there to document potential atrocity crimes for prosecution domestically in Ukraine and We're also supporting a range of actors on the ground Non-governmental actors activists who are collecting some of this information themselves Additionally, we welcome prosecutor Kareem Kahn's announcement to open an investigation at the international criminal court and we are particularly Appreciate his focus on preserving evidence of possible of possible atrocity crimes I think across the board, you know, there are a number of mechanisms that have been set up There are a number of non-governmental actors that are Seeking to collect and preserve Evidence for future prosecutions and I think that we really view Coordination and the interoperability of these various various mechanisms as essential and as the ambassador mentioned We have the group of friends for accountability in Ukraine, which is something the US was proud to join last week I think that could serve as a useful mechanism for some of our coordination efforts so I think that the the various initiatives that I've shared can Kind of highlight how essential the multilateral system is to the pursuit of accountability in Ukraine And we are going to continue to work closely with our Ukrainian partners with our other partners and allies Around the world to leverage every element of the UN system that we can to ensure that Justice is done to those who have committed crimes in Ukraine Curtis. Thank you It's very striking Professor listening to you listening to you Curtis described the way in which the spider's web of accountability is being woven and just how strong and dense that web actually is Bill that leads us to a discussion you and I and others have been having earlier about the sensitivity in the relationship between a negotiated into the war and Yet holding the perpetrators of that invasion accountable. This is not an easy question to address You know you came very well, and we'd be very interested in your view on that Great to be back with you again, and you're great. You're great team. Thanks Cut this by Lee does as I say wonderful work She was there when we were talking about about the jungle That that you mentioned in your remarks and and so it's it's an honor. It's an honor to be here Let me just emphasize a couple things ambassador that you said And it gets to your question, please One is you said this is what this is black and white Many of us I Fought it a war that was morally ambiguous This is not morally ambiguous. This is exactly what you said. This is black and white. This is this is crimes This is aggression. This is unprovoked. This is innocence on the other side This is black and white. So you're you're exactly and and You mentioned that the world had thought that The second best army in the world would be in Kiev In in days hours you said it turns out That this army is the second best army in Ukraine Because the Ukrainian military has Shown to be heroes shown to be heroes And Ukrainians have been seen to be heroes and your president has been seen to be a hero So this is an inspiration to institutions like this It's an instant. It's an inspiration to the world. And so it's a congratulations to you and your and your country accountability Foundational to to the United States to all of our work that we've talked about here. I Was just sitting here As you were speaking and I got a message from my son who is a prosecutor and he had been arguing in court to can that that a man was guilty of killing two other men and He had to prove it in this court A lot of time and effort went into that trial To prove one man guilty of killing two men and to think What is going on in your country? That is one man guilty of killing tens of thousands tens of thousands That account That court where my son was has has established accountability We need to establish established accountability here as well And as you have pointed out professor in order for that accountability to be accomplished Ukraine has to win Ukraine has to win in order to do all the things that we've been talking about here in order to bring This man and the others you listed a lot of people Who are guilty of these crimes on your on your slide and in order to bring them to account? Ukraine has to win and so we will do this at least your question about negotiations is an important one and Only the Ukrainians and only the Ukrainian leadership can decide about these negotiations certainly not for us to To say anything really about what should happen and this these are hard questions that ambassador You know better than anyone about about the terms of negotiations. We will we will support you We the Americans Probably the US government will support you on on that negotiation on on on how that happens and We need to be careful exactly as Lee said about how we talk about and implement This these war crimes discussions We want to be supportive of of your negotiations. We want to support it be supportive of ceasefire withdrawal of Russian forces That has to happen and then this work has to happen Bill, thank you very much We'd be delighted to take questions from anyone who is with us in the auditorium Are there colleagues who would like to pose a question to a member of the panel? we have Jonathan President Biden goes to Poland What is Ukraine asking or hoping for asking for? Out of the out of the NATO summit. There's been a proposal by by Poland Which I believe may have been endorsed by some of the other former East Block states that are now members of NATO to create humanitarian corridor Protected by peacekeepers. Is there a realistic? Expectation that that could happen and I would put the same question to Curtis too about the possibility of Humanitarian corridor protected by peacekeepers Being a concrete result coming out of the NATO summit. Thank you. Thank you for the question. I will Ask my US colleague to answer as we are not around the table in NATO But I will just say that the ask from Ukraine whether to the United States as our strategic alliance partner and friend or To other democratic nations or to NATO or to UN or everyone at this point in the world has been very consistent and the same First we need to stop the war in order to stop the war. We need all the weapons everyone Ready to provide to us as we are ready to defend our country until the victory. We need all the sanctions everyone are ready to Increase and deepen in order to isolate Russia and make them stop by sanctions We need all the pressure that international community can apply to Russia to stop again Russia has shown that they only respond to strengths and power and we all have to show that civilized democratic people can be strong Clearly if Ukrainians are stopping the tanks with the bare hands as we saw in in the videos There should be more options on the table and there should be more instruments that we as the international community can Get out from the toolbox in order to stop Russia now of course the humanitarian corridors and Getting the supplies into Mariupol, which has been besieged for 15 days 15 days without food water and been shelled and On an hourly basis 80 percent of the city is destructed Harkiv Chernihiv other places So we of course fighting and we are not ready to surrender But as our president said even though he's showing remarkable bravery and resolve to Continue and defend the country. We will negotiate. We will try to save every life possible So whatever the international community can do to to to force again Russia To adhere to any of the humanitarian corridors allow us to get the civilians out Allow us to get the supplies into the cities. We are ready to sit and negotiate around the table, but for this particular Meetings in Europe. I will I will ask my US college Head of anything that the president will say well, he's in Brussels and in Poland, but just to you know reiterate what the ambassador said You know the US has been very strong in our support both in terms of defense articles For Ukraine as well as in humanitarian assistance I think you've seen generosity from the Congress and huge support from the executive branch as well We have also been trying to work as best we can behind the scenes To work with the UN and other international organizations To facilitate the passage of humanitarian supplies to establish humanitarian pauses implement humanitarian quarter so that civilians who are fleeing can come out supplies can flow in it's obviously been difficult and Some cities are particularly in a in a very difficult situation right now Given the you know the actions of Russian forces I will say that I don't think that the Establishment of humanitarian corridors by force is necessarily going to be successful because I think that that is simply going to lead to conflict between whichever Entity would establish those humanitarian quarters and the Russians. I think we need to continue to work to see if we can Establish through negotiations humanitarian corridors humanitarian pauses so that we can get supplies in and people out Are there other questions from the floor? Madam ambassador, I have a question from Carol Castiel from Voice of America news She would like to know what do you think the West should do if Putin resorts to chemical weapons attack on Ukraine? Should Putin resort to using chlorine gas on Ukrainians that skirts the chemical weapons band? What will or should the West do better yet? Can we preempt his use of such heinous weapons? Thank you Thank you. I've been asked Many times what the West should do and I think you know this question should be directed to West first and foremost But as a Ukrainian I can tell you that I think in 2014 and 2015 When Russia did exactly what they're doing now, but on a smaller scale That is the moment when all the sanctions strong sanctions should have been implemented That is the moment when everyone should have said no to business as usual with Russia We are very pleased that we have now the strong response that we have us Leading the effort not only in supporting us, but also in sanctions and everything else But we all together as the democratic world are Catching up with Putin. He's driving his aggressive agenda and we are responding and I think it's time for us to think What is it that we together are ready to do in order to stop him and clearly he shows to all of us That when he feels That we are not ready for decisive actions That's when he advances when he feels that there will be no repercussions for his action that when he Does something more we clearly has shown also in Ukraine that on the ground He's not very successful. None of his initial objectives, whatever that was have been achieved no major cities Kiev and our very motivated and very effective armed forces Which has been built from zero, you know from scratch in 2013 when the previous president and all government fled the country following the democratic Revolution of dignity We found out our country without money without institutions without army without anything and during the past eight years We have built it from scratch and we have reformed so many areas of our Governance inside the country and we see the results Maybe this is something that we have to also apply on a global scale if all these instruments and forums and international Organizations that we're engaging now if we are not able or they cannot respond To the threats of the 21st century Maybe we all together should should think about how we can reform it in order to react properly and stop putting Kim Dozier CNN analyst I Wanted to ask if the shipments from the US coming in are Going to be enough for the next two weeks the next month and also on the MiG-29s the We reporters get told by the Pentagon etc. That Part of the reason that the Biden White House doesn't want to send them in is it could be escalatory to send them via NATO and the other part is because of the fleet of MiG-29s you have on the ground Have had maintenance problems and you haven't been able to fix those. That's why some of them aren't flying So they don't want to send you More mix to have to try to keep in the sky. Is there anything to that? Thank you Well, I hope you will understand that I will not respond to any specific questions on the weapons because we need to win this war and we don't need the enemy to know and All the details, so I'm I'm a bit You know shouldn't use upset word But surprised that these discussions are in the press rather than being internally but what I can tell you publicly is that we need all the support we can get with a special focus on anti-air and Plains and everything we can get in order to close our sky as we say so while We are asking Everyone who is ready to help us in it and understand that there is not a political or there is no readiness yet for some more Radical actions by our friends and partners, but we need all the weapons in order to do it ourselves We never asked troops on the ground actually our army is ready and capable and and is very motivated to do it but we need as Sir Churchill said once, you know, give me the tools and I will do the job Our army needs all the tools to do this job and we see now that the largest devastation that Ukraine is having is from the air With that not been able to fight effectively on the ground not been able to advance they resorted to pure terror They just born in all the cities whether it's Kiev, Kharkiv, Western, Eastern Ukraine from the air And this is something that we have to address urgently So any support there and again, I will not go into detail, but our friends and partners all know What we want and why? Thank you Thank you, Joseph Habush a lot of the English Spoken a lot obviously about the West and their role and its role In ending this war more or less most of the Western countries are United in their stance you have a handful of countries that are Maybe haven't come out and condemned Russia's invasion be it China Belarus Iran and a number of others Can you talk to us a little bit about the role you believe? Basser you believe China can play and do you believe that this war can come to an end if China is pressured and encouraged if I may I'll try I might be able to guess your answer But can you elaborate a little bit more as well on how communications are? Going with Beijing following You know the recent calls between us and officials led by President Biden. Thank you Quick comment from me first you mentioned Belarus. They are not Neutral our territory is being targeted from the territory of Belarus The Russian troops that attack Ukraine from the north came from Belarus. So by any Rules or explanations, they are part of this conflict and they are not party on our side So they are as responsible for this brutal aggression Not as responsible probably as Russians, but they are participating it already although we really hope that You know the Belarusian people will stop their military from Participating in this war as to other countries and you mentioned China, but others we believe again. I said democratic West and democratic countries, but I think it's important for all UN members Especially for countries like China who believe in UN policies and UN Charter To also take part, you know take sides I think you know Neutrality is no longer an option. It's not something that was quick and over in a day Ukrainians are defending our homes I think it's clear to everyone even to skeptics that regardless of where in Ukraine whether it's east west south north whether the Ukrainians speak Ukrainian or speak Russian Like in the in the cities that have been attacked in the first days, you know Harkiv and Mariupol and others That everyone are coming out whether together with the armed forces or with bare hands With only one ask to Russians go home. We don't want you here Even in her son that has been Under occupation on a daily basis innocent people and you also yesterday How Russians shot at a peaceful demonstration on a daily basis people go to the main square and say go home So I think there is no ambiguity there as ambassador said it's very black and white And I think it should be very important for those countries who I may be a bit far from us Who didn't know us that well before it it should be very clear to these countries that this is what? Ukrainians want all of us not just our president not just our Members of parliament not only our armed forces all of us all 40 million want one thing For Russians to get out from our country to stop firing at us get out and You know leave us leave us to do what we want to do in our country And I think it should be very important for everyone not only Western countries for everyone who believe in Borders in sovereignty in territorial integrity and in UN rules That we can actually all live together somehow peacefully on this planet So I believe it's time for everyone and that's why we are counting on many countries and we are counting on China also to take their role and and play the important role in You know encouraging the Russia stops I mean you've all seen President Biden spoke with President Xi Secretary of State has spoken with his counterpart national security advisor spoke with his counterpart at well as well and all made clear You know that we find unacceptable China support for Russia's war in Ukraine and I think you know coming back to kind of my World of the UN I think this is really a moment when China needs to think about Their relationship with other countries as well China actually didn't vote no on the General Assembly resolution They abstained they abstained in the Security Council. They've sustained elsewhere And I think that they are trying to carve out a comfortable position for themselves But we see in their words and deeds every day that they are clearly supporting Russia's war in Ukraine and I think a lot of countries that have Benefited from their bilateral relationship with China that work with China in many other areas need to Kind of question where China really stands on issues of sovereignty and territorial integrity Which are things that China often has highlighted in the UN, but we're not seeing them defend in the case of Ukraine We're nearly at the end of our discussion today. May I ask if there are final questions from the floor? We do have a question Jane that we would like to pose to you about this dense Accountability Spider's web that you and Curtis and others have been describing We know that there are some mechanisms as you outlined which hold states accountable and there are mechanisms which hold Individuals accountable individuals like In your view you are one of the country's world's great experts in this domain Which of these mechanisms? Do you think is the most effective in this case with Russia's aggressive Unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. I think the Ukrainians have shown us the need for multiple mutually reinforcing approaches to accountability and I commend them for You know taking this issue to the International Court of Justice for state responsibility to the European Court of Human Rights as Well as looking at international criminal mechanisms because I think we need to have all of these I don't think it's one or the other either or it needs to be a mutually reinforcing accountability strategy and just to underscore a couple things the ambassador said which I think are really important prevention is obviously Critical trying to prevent these horrific crimes and the harms before they happen and doing more and doing better And I think if the web of accountability can be built more robustly going forward. There's a greater prospect for that And a second point she made which I also want to really agree with is the need to think creatively about new institutional structures You know at the end of World War two The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted affirming human dignity and equality and was the foundation for human rights Instruments that have really been transformative And I think this is such a moment and I think Ukraine is showing us not only what to fight Against but what to fight for human dignity human rights Democracy and the need to build not only accountability for violations of fundamental norms But to build structures that can prevent those violations and can help to reinforce The fundamental rules of international law on which peace and security depend Just want to thank everyone for and for the Institute of Peace first and foremost for bringing us together Every day is a challenge every day brings pain To Ukraine but as our president says every day brings us closer to our victory and we believe it we believe that You know because we are fighting this righteous war because we are defending our home because it's us who were who were attacked we have to win it and After we win it and Hopefully with global help we will be able to do it faster We all have to ensure That this will not happen again Which means also that we have to use all the tools possible in order to address the Reasons why it happened You know everything that is wrong with Russia that led to this moment So whatever mr. Putin was talking about all this demilitarization and other stuff. I think this is It's clear to everyone that is if anyone has to go through it. It's it's Russia It's Russian Federation with all this aggressive actions Against Ukraine and aggressive intentions about against everyone else But right now I think we all have to focus first on how to stop this war and how to stop the suffering and how to help Ukraine defend itself and I would call on everyone to do everything possible to make it happen Madam and Velsinger, thank you for being with us. It's an honor to have you bill. Thank you Curtis were delighted you're with us Professor, thank you for educating us. You know when the US Institute of Peace was talking about this kind of event we did a Quick history of peace agreements and negotiated ins to wars where the issue of accountability was subsumed Under the political imperative and every time that happened Justice wasn't done and there was more conflict later And this is why we think it's so important that the issue of accountability be first and foremost upfront in this Conflict right now and this is why we're grateful for all of you for being with us Thank you very much. We look forward to welcoming everyone back to US Institute of Peace