 I was just doing the paperwork to try to get my siblings and my dad to the United States. He said that part of the process we have to do DNA test, he said, Obi, not only am I not his child, none of my siblings are his child. Really? He said, Obi, I'm 36 years old. And I think he had like four brothers and sisters and some shit. He's like, I don't know how to tell him. You ever seen the Iceberg analogy where more shit is under said subconscious is greater than the constant? I've always been saying women are born with a finite number of eggs. As much as testosterone governs sex drive and other things obviously play a part in that, the drive to reproduce is a big part of that subconsciously. So on some level, whether we realize it or not for men and women, you choosing to engage sexually with somebody is on some level, whether consciously or unconsciously, you agreeing that, you know, it'd be cool to reproduce with. But I think men, I think the same applies because. Absolutely. But again, the difference is men are not hypergamous. Men again is quantity over quality. So a man can literally cheat on a woman with a woman who's not as good. But in the woman's perspective, that's not how it works for most. But in women, but that's the thing, even if that is the case, that is not how women interpret that. Women don't believe. Yeah, because you interpreted how you would. Well, the result is the same is the point is that the same way, whether it's real or not, whether or not you really thought she was a better option. Women internalize that he cheated on me. Exactly. There's something that he likes more about her, which is not the case, but that's how we feel. And I'm trying to explain to you why just like your question alluded to like men are not as forgiving because in as much as I understand you're interpreting it in a way that it would be if it happened to you or if you did it, I'm sorry. That's not what it is for men. And that kind of sucks too. The thought of that for me to cheat on you, which like I said, when somebody cheats on someone, it's not about what the other person is lacking. It's about you, for one, you didn't have enough integrity to leave a situation that wasn't fitting to you. But regardless, if you are in a situation where you're cheating on someone, it kind of sucks that a man would cheat on the person that they're with with someone that they don't even think is better than the other person that they're with. That kind of sucks. It sucks because you don't understand it. Yeah. Like you would you would sacrifice my emotions, my trust in you, the ability for you to go and bring back STDs for you to get this woman pregnant. And you don't even think that she's better than me. That is not. Yeah, listen, when you when you when you just explain it like that, it's terrible. I agree with you. However, like I remember Dr. Warren Farrell, he was talking about he's interviewed a shit ton of men for his research and he found that the vast majority of men want sexual variety, like deeply, men desire multiple women and that's part of our struggle in life is to tame that beast. Now, I don't say that to excuse it. I say that to hopefully inspire some level of empathy, some level of understanding that like this is our baseline. Now, on top of that baseline, we try to be good men. We try to be godly men dignified in the whole nine. But left toward devices and it's clear in nature as well. Men are not built like women are built in that regard. Even it's funny, Rebecca Limpope, she's she's a she was famous for rebuking women at one point. Now she's famous for rebuking men saying women are doing so much better. But that's beside the point. She talked about having to take testosterone medication for something. And she was like, man, I get it. She was like the the the way that her libido spiked and the way that she began to think about sex in that moment when just because of the medication and it just reached it didn't even reach the level of men's it just reached close. And she was like, damn, yeah, this ain't how we're built. And then again, like I said, there are different considerations that a woman has to make to let something into her versus what men have to make to enter something. So so there's there's in my in my head, there's never going to be a reality where the repercussions from a male point of view are going to be the same as the repercussions from a female point of view. But I understand women's pain and hurt behind it. And I'm just I'm just trying to explain to you like it is not the same at all. At all. And then to your paternity fraud thing, I think the paternity fraud thing is underreported. Because it requires a DNA test, which requires suspicion. And we understand that even though psychologists are even coming forth and saying, yeah, women cheat just as much as men. We also understand that women are a lot more covert. Women are a lot more detail oriented. Alan Roger Curry calls it the the wholesome pretender, right? There are a lot more lady in the streets and freaking the sheets than we realize that we report. So so I think men's anxiety around getting got men's anxiety around pain Mercedes prices for Toyota. Men's anxiety around having to raise another man's child. Men's anxiety around literally being treated as a dude. He called a talk show Instagram talk show during quarantine, and he was talking about how Nigerian song about, yeah, he said, oh, the guy who holds the show's names on me, too. But he said I'm 30, 35, 36 years old. And I was just doing the paperwork to try to get my siblings and my dad to the United States. And he said that part of the process we have to do DNA tests, he said, Obi, not only am I not his child, none of my siblings are his child. Really? He said, Obi, I'm 36 years old. And I think he had like four brothers and sisters and some shit. He's like, I don't know how to tell him. That's crazy. Women are never you're never going to have to feel that or deal with that. But I don't I don't think that's as far. I mean, I can't because I've never been in a situation. So I can say, but I would think it would be similar to in situations where because obviously if a woman gets pregnant, whether it's yours or not, you're going to know that she got pregnant. You know, whether or not you go to extra malty at a paternity test is, you know, that's a choice. There are men who have whole families and these women don't even know sometimes until the man has died. And I don't think that you can really understand what that would be like to understand that this man cheated, had a whole family over here with this other woman or women. And I had no idea about that. Like it sucks. I get that and I know that sucks. I think the uniqueness about female infidelity versus male infidelity is that paternity fraud piece because everything you talked about from having another family to STDs to whatever are also things that come with a woman cheating, except for you raising a child thinking it's yours. That's something that is unique to female infidelity. It's a possibility. It's but all these things are possible. Right, no, I'm saying all these things are possibilities. What I'm saying is the sleeper agent possibility that comes with this side cheating versus this side cheating is the paternity fraud piece. That's something a woman will never have to. I have to worry about all the same things you have to worry about if I cheat. In addition to potentially raising another man's child that I don't even know is mine, it isn't mine. Well, like I said, I don't know the statistics on how often paternity fraud happens, but I just can't imagine that is something that is. Like often happening. I think it happens, but I don't think that's like the majority of the data. According to the data, I think it's 30 percent or some shit like that. And what what is uniquely terrifying about paternity fraud is number one, if anybody says you know a woman is cheating, either they are maturing their pimping or they're an idiot because women are cerebral. And I'm saying this as a man who's been on both sides. Women are fucking cerebral. When you say both sides, you mean that you have been. I don't know if I've been cheated on, but you've been cheating with someone like been the man that someone has been cheating with. God bless your life. Yes. That phrase is so funny. So so so I say that to say like women are cerebral, which is terrifying. But the other thing, too, is and just like I said, just on a on a purely just biological fucking rudimentary level, let's say we're together and I go out and I cheat on you and I get somebody else pregnant. I can come home the same day and impregnate you as well. Which is also problematic. Which also, again, I'm talking about caveman shit. I'm talking about just on the ground. Men be doing that, though. Had two women pregnant at the same time. That's real, that's real. However, if you go out and you cheat on me and you get pregnant for the next nine months, you're off limits. OK, but do you really want to be on limits if I'm pregnant with somebody else? Again, I'm trying to just explain the rudimentary. I think I have no access to you from a reproduction standpoint. For the next nine months, which is something you don't have to suffer. Let's say in both scenarios, they kiss and make up and we're going to stay together. I can still give you everything I gave her and more. You're right, right. But for the next nine months, at least nine months plus six weeks, you can't give me a goddamn thing. Maybe it would give me some pussy, but you can't give me a kid. Yeah. These and again, I don't know if many like consciously think about these differences. But when we talk about female infidelity versus male infidelity, it's not the same. And I hate the fact that we talk about it like it's the same or it's anywhere near the same until women are the ones proposing to men, until women are the ones paying a toll for access to men, until women are the ones who are skeeting in us and risking their lives in protection or provision of us. Until that becomes the case, it's not the same. So if you removed the paternity fraud situation, would you see them as being the same? Yes, if the like I said, if women were paying tolls for men. And when you say tolls, what does that mean? Tolls meaning that we go out on a date I'm expected to pay. You know, a mugger jumps out in front of us when we're walking down the street. I'm expected to put my life on the line. Like there are other things that men have to pay, right? I agree. Don't have to pay. I don't think women pay those specific things, but I do think that there are expectations of women that are tolls as well, which is different. What are some unique tolls that women have to pay that men don't? I think that there is an expectation of time from women that is different than what the expectation that women put on men for time. OK, I think that because time is valuable to I hear that a lot. Here's a problem that I have with it. It's it's we go on a date at eight o'clock from eight to ten. The idea is that you gave me two hours at your time, as opposed to we gave each other two hours of each other's time. I'm not even talking about that type of time, though, not just on a date. I'm talking about throughout life. So like the type of women because again, I think there's a hyper focus on the type of women that I don't even want. OK, the type of women that men I believe actually want is are the types of women that give time in different ways. So when we talk about that assistant type of woman, who is your assistant and she's helping you do all these things and she's the sounding board. Like when you hear about a lot of different successful men, they talk about the nights that their wife listened to their ideas in the middle of the night, or they did those little intangible things that made their life easier, which allowed them the space to pursue the things that made them successful. So those things are told to my issue. My issue with that is I think it I think it it's along those lines of this kind of agreed upon idea that women pay a heavier emotional toll than men or we hear women, for instance, say, I did most of the emotional work when you can't quantify that. But even with your analogy with the time thing, are we also factoring in all the time of backbreaking labor or mental labor that the man had to put in to earn the money that attracted you in the first place? But what about the lifestyle? But we're talking about things that directly benefit this woman. No, because if you choose to go somewhere else, it benefits whoever you're with at the time, you did that for you. Sure. But for the time being, you enjoyed it as well. So where do we draw the the lineation line between the time thing? Because you could also as a man, you could also make the argument that, yeah, if she wasn't up listening to my idea, she would have been up listening to somebody else's ideas or up watching crime drama, whatever the case may be. So that time would have been spent regardless. So again, for me, I have a hard time because, again, like I said, are we also including the time he spent to become the man you wanted in the first place? Are we also including the time he spent to maintain the lifestyle that keeps you comfortable enough to be up at night thinking about how to grow his business? So it's tough to start then. OK, this time counts, but this time doesn't count. My time counts, but your time doesn't count because it's hard. It's hard to make that decision. Well, I think that's important, though, if you're talking about these tolls. That's the only reason why this came up is because I think it sounds like, based on what you're saying, that men invest more into relationships than women do initially. Yes, absolutely. But what do you mean initially? So when does it change initially? Meaning I would liken it to a student and a school. A woman is the school. So I got to do a shit ton of work to to get admission to you. You university, I have to do my community service, my GPA, to even get access to your university. And then, you know, you university can give me the education for me to be successful later in life. But on the front end, men are the ones we have to put in the work. I don't know if I agree with that. There's no expectation. The college thing is actually perfect with no expectation of future success. I only I don't know if I agree with that only because I believe that from what I've seen, that there are a lot of women putting a lot of effort, the types of women that y'all say y'all want, once again, that are putting a lot of effort into men without a commitment. And that's a critique that I have of women is that we are doing too much for men that have not actually committed to us. So I think and so that's on the front end, front end, before you even put a commitment on this thing, this woman is treating you like your girlfriend. Or once you put a girlfriend title, she's treating you like a wife without a commitment in place or a ring, rather. So I don't know about. I think and most men, if we're being honest, most men are not out whining and dining women. They're not putting a lot of effort in. Women are not requiring much on the front end, if we're being honest. Yeah, because women aren't prioritizing those types of men. But that's what I'm saying, though. So the bulk of men are not putting all this heavy lifting in on the front end. Well, women are requiring it. Well, again, I think going back to what I said early about the difference you're right, women are women. Women's, you know, acceptance rate tends to be pretty high. Or I'm not even going to say that. It's not that the acceptance rate is high is that they're deprioritizing your class rank and prioritizing the fact that you are nominated best dressed. Yeah, you feel what I'm saying? So so with that, with that being said, women are paying this toll to the wrong guys. I don't think I think I think in the time where men are paying that initial toll, right, because I think you agree with me, like up front, men are doing the majority of the work up front. I think the types of men that women want are doing the work. And that's why they want them. I don't think it's just about money. It's about what like I think we said it earlier, like what money affords. Those types of men are more likely to whine and dying you and do those things. I'm not just talking about the whine or dying. I'm talking about the fact women are not the ones approaching men. But approaching is not what I mean by just approaching. I also mean like taking the initial step, the initiation. Women are not the ones initiating relationship. You're not the convincer. You're the convinced you you have the first right of refusal to say that. All right, I fuck with you. Yes to the day. Yes to the Netflix and chill. Yes to the sushi, whatever or not. So so regardless, even if I'm a pookie, Ray Ray ain't shit dude, I still have to convince you. I just still don't really think that most men are putting that much effort. It's not even about the amount of effort. It's about the initial effort. So that's that's all. Even from the ain't shit dude to the dude who's ready to take you to Roof Chris on the first date. The initiation is still on our side before you have to do anything. OK, well, yeah, and it starts with y'all. But I think, OK, so you're saying like just the fact of you're not going to walk up to me. So the fact that we even ended up on this date is because I asked you on the date. OK, well, yeah, that part. But then after that, then I think that the tolls are not so skewed as men. If it's a good woman, she's going to return. Exactly. Just like I said, if you apply to a good school and you had a good education, you're going to be guaranteed a job when you graduate. But if it was a shitty school, you probably won't be guaranteed. Yeah, you have to work harder. Yeah, work your way out. So it should equal out and. Optimistic men go in hoping that, yeah, she's just as great as the pedestal I put her on in my head. Typically, that's not the case. But yeah, you know, so with that being said, men start off the work and we hope for the best. So so with that being said, we are starting. We're starting this thing rolling. OK, traditionally, yeah, y'all started off. There are women now taking taking measures into their own hands, proposing and carrying on. No, that's for Instagram. You don't think there are any women that be proposing? I'm not going to do it, but I do think there may be some. I don't think it's a good idea at any at any rate. But even when I see it, I think it's a skit. Really? Yeah, I'm not going to say it doesn't happen. But does it happen enough for it to like be worthy of a conversation? Yeah. Fuck no. Fuck no. Yeah, I'm not. The high value, high producing, let me say women, they're not doing that. I wouldn't do it, but, you know, teach their own. OK, so I only have a couple more things I wanted to ask you. OK, but so I don't believe in matching energy. I'm going to be who I am. And if I can't be that with you, then I'd rather be without you. Period. But when I saw a post that it said, in the beginning of relationships, women treat you how they want to be treated. And then in the end, they treat you how you've treated them. What are your thoughts on that? In the beginning of a relationship, women treat you how they want to be treated. And then in the end, they treat you how you've treated them. Oh, yes and no, yes and no. One of the things I've been talking about recently, but not even recently, I've talked about it a lot, actually. A lot of women these days do not start relationships, even interactions, even fuck relationships, even interactions with black men, particularly anger, faith. OK. There is a there's a veneer of suspicion. There is a. Veneer of. You ain't shit until proven otherwise. Or I'm just waiting to figure out how you ain't shit. So there's always kind of the tinge of this. Now, am I saying that's always the case? No, but generally, and I'm just talking about like out in the world, not even with some romantic shit. Generally, that tends to be the case. Do you think that's specific to women, though? Because I would argue that men also. We're starting to become the absolutely. Absolutely. I think I think as the world start videos that go viral of a woman on the phone where her boyfriend while getting fucked by another dude and we, you know, we are the men who were who she was cheating with. Yeah, I think the suspicion naturally goes out of these details really. Yeah. And I think we're we're also we're also having a hard time negotiating what we thought women were versus who women actually are. And I'm not saying that women are whores or women are bad people. What I'm saying, though, is I think we had extreme keratin expectations of women. I agree that we're really baked into who we are and our assumptions as men. And I think even, you know, to use a ministerial term, the whole red pilling is breaking out of that programming. I'm not familiar with that. Can you? So when you watch the Matrix, Neo is offered a choice to take a blue pill or a red pill because he's in this computer program called The Matrix. Now, if he takes the blue pill, he wakes up in his bed and he goes on living in the computer program. But if he takes the red pill, then he wakes up to what the world actually is. So that term has also been co-opted to represent men. Really, men gaining an understanding of what the world really is in general, but more specifically, who women are actually are in particular. OK. And unfortunately, that typically happens after some kind of trauma he was cheated on. So then it's like a skewed understanding of who women actually are. So it goes from one extreme to another. Yeah. OK. Versus the more balanced extreme is that, yeah, human beings are just as capable of good and evil or just as capable of, like, you know, deception and the whole nine. But yeah, I think we do have to kind of navigate the fact that, yes, as men, as people, we did have virginal, puritan expectations of women. And I think we're still licking our wounds from that. But while we're licking our wounds, the glorellas and the megastallions and the Cardi B's are kind of just in our face, pushing that damn, these holes are actually worse than we even thought. And I'm not talking about these people in particular. I'm talking about the celebration of them. Yeah. And I think it's it's it's it's kind of like trying to heal from a gunshot wound and still being stabbed. Yeah. Yeah. You know, even with a small knife and still being. So I think that's kind of what men are trying to work out. And I think it's going to take time. It's going to take because even, even, honestly, even me, like I've said this before, like doing live streams, like one of the things that. I hated or in hindsight that I I I'm not going to say I hated. But I dislike. About the process, not just of these videos, but of like even we need to talk in college is like I've gained such an intimate understanding of people and women in particular that the magic is gone. Really? So in saying that elaborate on that. I thought women with sugar and spice and everything nice. Just like this prior prior. Prior to high school and then college. Definitely prior prior to college. And even, you know, not just with this, but even in my everyday life, like I have such a. Clear perspective that again, the magic of damn, she got fairy dust coming out of her ass is gone. And that's one of the things that, again, I talk about trade offs all the time. That's one of the trade offs of understanding. I remember there's it's it's probably not true, but there's this book called The Seven Books of Moses. And it's apparently like a spell book. And the story behind it is anybody who reads this whole book will go insane. Oh, really? This book of spells and mystical shit, which for me, I interpreted it as like our human brains are not supposed to be able to comprehend everything. Yeah. Some sense of ignorance is bliss. And from a understanding of women perspective, the ignorant bliss of my youth is gone, which is sad and I didn't consider that. But it is part of the trade off of an understanding, but, you know, I don't. Yeah, I can't really say which is better, which I prefer having an understanding. I will say that, but I do miss the magic. How has that impacted your your process as it pertains? Well, I don't know, because from what you're saying, you don't even want to find nobody right now. You want to wait until you're 35, 40, 55 years old. So what is how has that impacted that? Is that why that's now where it's at? Um, I think I think the good thing, I think the good thing is I no longer attach myself esteem to my ability to conquer women. That's good. I think the bad thing, though, is my I'm a bit more sensitive to what's wrong with her. That's right with her. OK, you know, because I think as a young man, you're looking for reasons to like somebody. And you more quickly see those reasons. But, you know, as a cynical, more mature man and again, I'm young as shit. That's the thing. I'm young as shit. But I've just, you know, I've seen a lot. And, you know, I know some things. You're your brain more quickly figures out what's wrong and fixates on that before it realizes what's what's right. Or let me not say that. I the pedestal thing still happens. It just doesn't last as long. Like you fall from the pedestal the day I meet you. Whereas, you know, as a younger man, the pedestal was perpetual. So I think it's it's also like a mixed bag, because the good thing is I can say that I talk to women as women, as who they are. You know, I didn't make up an expectation of you in my head. I'm talking to you. And it was all you and all your bullshit. I'm talking to you and all your bullshit. And ironically, you know, as a bit of advice to other men, women feel a bit more comfortable with me. I don't know if it's less pressure. You know, you don't have to put on this front that society makes women have to put on this wholesome pretender front, because, you know, I'm just seeing you as a person. I don't have I don't expect you to be a virgin, old keratin, goody two shoes, my fucker. You know, just tell me who you are, because I'm not that. Yeah.