 So I'll call the meeting to order. I have seven o'clock at my watch First order of business is the minutes of October 2nd H2 I just had one minor thing at the Edward number 12 other business the permits on the Should on the last two lines. I should read should read the red barn and gardens Page three no further comments all those in favor of approving the minutes of October 2 2018 say aye. Aye. Any opposed and no abstentions This is time for public comment. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to make any public comment on anything? Right, yes, please if you were just to introduce yourself and I Am here to introduce myself Move it back a little too loud It introduced myself. I'm Alex Farrell. I'm running for state Senate To represent Chittenden County. So I grew up right over in Shelburne. I went to see you just up the street So I'm going around to different select boards here in Chittenden County to learn more about each town I know Municipalities have to work well with the with the legislature and rely on them in a lot of different ways So I think it's imperative that our our legislative candidates are our well-versed Especially the county-wide candidates are well-versed in what's happening in each town. So that's why I'm here. My main issues are reducing the high cost of living here and Trying to expand business opportunity in Vermont. Those are tough things a lot of governors and legislators have attempted it But I'm a millennial and I'm a young professional that grew up here in stage. So I think I've got some kind of perspective, right? Anyway, I'd be happy to field any questions, but it's your meeting. So I'll let you go on with your business What are your ideas? So one of them is permit reform, which everybody's been talking about permit reform Something people have been talking about for a long time streamlining projects in particular so Within the within Act 250 not removing Act 250 but streamlining projects that will have a certain amount of either job creation or housing creation And those parameters. I haven't really thought through yet with something. We're already doing But I think we need to make wider use of to encourage projects like like Cambrian rise or city place Are sort of a new model for projects You know city place right now is Unhauled and without funding, right? Yes, that is as a very discouraging development, but that's not our problem What about job creation, yeah job creation, so I think there's a couple things there one is Reducing the reducing the tax burden on on companies, but but more importantly I think investing in areas like so are you all familiar with the Vermont Center for Emerging Technologies v set So that another like BTV ignite Sort of encouraging entrepreneurial growth where we we've sort of locked out and ended up with our dealer comms in my web Grocers fortunately my web grocers now getting bought out but Encouraging more of that now that's not going to be the the magic bullet You can't just hope hope to win the lottery every ten years that we're gonna have another big hit But I think those are places to start You know some some other things that I focus on because I grew up in Shelburne and I live in Burlington is late cleanup I think finding a funding source for late cleanup Hopefully within surpluses that we've seen would be a great place to start. I know bonding is on the table But you know if it comes to a parcel fee I think would be a next logical step if we had to go that route But I would not want to target a specific industry be a agriculture or hotel stands Good thank you very much for coming tonight. I can't stick around for your meeting unfortunately, but nice to meet everybody question behind you Yeah I'm right that folks thought so there's something for only for folks I can afford to more table now So I think finding different ways to encourage startups Startups that will help curb that now Vermont can Cannot But I think what's more important is sort of symbolism and to Showing that set that we take himself You know wow, even if we can't all turn off all of our cars and stop heating all of our homes to make a difference What we can do is this take steps to encourage Things that will actually have a broader impact down the road Do you think the state has any role in the policies which would? Which is fossil fuels No It's true you can you can definitely curb behavior with You know say say fees and then you can sort of encourage different types of behavior That is something I'd be in favor of I know I know it's an option for some people That probably wouldn't be for me. However encouraging things on the supply side Would would be around that I absolutely explore Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anybody else who wishes to make a public comment tonight? If not, then we'll move on to the solid waste district report compost There's still be plans with Sarah Ryu's are a general manager of CSWD And you must have somebody else with you to this I do thank you So as you said, my name is Sarah Ryu's I'm the executive director for Chittin & Sallow Waste and here with me is Dan Goosen Dan is our director of compost operations. So he runs Green Mountain compost so we want to come here tonight and Especially give you the same presentation that we gave to our board in September Which is an update to know where we are in the discussions regarding Next steps for being Mountain compost so you may May know be wait and be aware that in January of this year the board and staff of Genisal Waste District held a retreat to discuss next steps for GMC as You are definitely aware food scraps who will be banned from landfill disposal July 1 2020 The year there was a report done several years ago I believe in 2014 by DSM that said that Chittin & County is Expected to produce approximately 14,000 tons of food scraps By that time so those needs to be managed somehow. It's not expected that GMC will have to handle all 14,000 tons clearly we think a lot of our residents we know a lot of our residents will compost in the backyard They will where it's allowed will use In sync garbage disposals They may contract with the hauler to collect those food scraps or they may drop them off at our drop-off centers or Green Mountain compost So we're not saying that we anticipate having to manage all of that material However, we do expect to manage a significant portion. So right now GMC is handling Quite a lot of food scraps we keep growing year after year after year and it's a good problem to have But we know that we're not the way we're currently configured Is not efficient or effective to managing? 8 9 or 10,000 tons So that was the charge that I set to our board and our staff was to start to have that conversation Well in advance of needing to actually construct anything and make any changes so the very first question I asked at that retreat was Pretty basic. Do we still want to do this as a district? You know, we shouldn't assume that the answer is yes But we so we had a good debate about that and what are the other options? We talked about that and the board did decide yes that they do feel that it is a policy It should be a function of the district to manage some portion of the food scraps and the organic material That is generated within Jitney County. So going from there we had a very robust conversation about many other items and and the Boiling down of that is included in your packet is in the memo dated September 12th to the CSWD board of commissioners It's a very short snapshot the minutes of that meeting by the way are on our website It was in January. It was a special board retreat So the full minutes are there for anyone who wants to read those minutes that are available As our most of the items that were included in the packet So what came out of that next was with the confirmation? Yes, we do want to still continue to manage food scraps was How and where so we started talking about What makes sense? We obviously have the facility on Redmond Road We own additional land on Redmond Road doesn't make sense to stay there Do we need to look elsewhere in the county to be more efficient and what would that look like and what would that mean? So over the course of this these past nine and a half almost ten months. We've been having those discussions and Nothing the board has not made any final decision about anything, but we have narrowed down some of the options So we they did ask us to well first focus on Redmond Road, obviously the infrastructure is there and if we don't have to Buy land somewhere else. That's a very good thing So that's where most of our discussions at this point have focused on we have looked at off-site options And what might that look like? Essentially best practices for any compost operation is a rectangle or a square You want to start in one end and end up at the other you tend to not want to loop around The way we are currently configured is a bit of an S curve with a little dipsy doodle at the end too So that's not entirely efficient So we know that we need to increase the efficiency to be able to increase our throughput at the end So starting with the premise that can you know, can we the idea the hope can we create a semblance of a rectangle on Redmond Road? That's where we have landed at this point now So the presentation in September was to discuss what we see as two scenarios one and two That would help us to get to more of a rectangular Shape on Redmond Road. So that is what Dan will be reviewing with you Tonight and then we are happy to answer Any and all of your questions regarding the process and anything else that you may May want to know about so What you see up on the screen there Set in the packet as well. That is the current layout of Green Mountain compost as it as it was built in 2010-11 opened up July of 2011. You're probably aware it was At the intervail for a long time in Burlington prior to that but this is how where we've been functioning since then and For those of you who have not seen the facility up close It's essentially most of the I can use my cursor here, but most of the active composting is happening right here. This is a big concrete and steel structure There is Water catchment systems there where we can reintegrate the higher concentration the higher strength liquids into the initial parts of the operation We compost it for aerated To keep the biology going and active For a number of weeks prior to then screening it which is done over here and then the screen material currently is Aged in this area, which we call the curing field so All told the active areas here are between depending on if you count driveways and all that are between 8 and 13 acres approximately and It has it's compared to the intervail where we were for a very long time Before relocating it works really well here. There's a lot of improvements Being on Redmond Road the biggest one being that we are high and dry And so in the event of large flooding events, you know at being down at the intervail that was always a problem When this site was designed We were Operating with about 3,000 tons there may be not quite 3,000 tons of food scraps between two and three thousand tons of food scraps per year We are currently at around 6,000 tons of food scraps. And so we doubled the amount of food that we've been handling This comes from businesses and residents Yeah, supermarkets grocery stores cafeterias The majority of it is business derived, but there is all of CSWD's drop-off centers have residential drop-off and Residential component is currently probably less than 10% so majority from institutions and businesses And that the volume of that is just grown Exponentially in the last seven years part of that is due to the act 148 legislation their universal recycling law You're all probably familiar with That certainly ramped up the amount of diversion and the and the types of businesses particularly that were Not diverting previously suddenly had more motivation to do so So we've seen continual growth and it's been a challenge. It's you know Was designed for half that capacity and we're really been pushing To make it work, but it's not without challenges. So Hence the DSM was hired to do their their study They were hired consultants into 2017 and that was followed up by their treat that Sarah talked about and since then we've contracted with another Individual named Craig Coker out of Virginia who does this all over the country and he's been helping us Go through these different scenarios and work up a bunch of different models Every model we've looked at has the eye towards Increasing capacity given the food that we expect to come our way in the coming years as well as doing Handling everything a little bit more efficiently than is possible in the current configuration as Sarah mentioned There's nothing really efficient about this layout. It was it was a great improvement over the intervail as mentioned, but It it's not in terms of our operating expenses It there's a lot of labor involved with moving material long distances and small quantities. So that's one of the things We're looking to correct So some of the the models that we've been looking at more recently than with the board This works bear with me here involve moving and perhaps actually before we look at that just to give you a little bit more context this green box here is where Sorry, this whole section here is the current compost facility On Redmond Road. Here's IBM right here Ledwood Drive on Martell Hill is up that way the end of Redmond Road here where the drop-off center is is there so And this this is a very new image from this summer. This is the new cutout that they did for Velco Or they have the right-of-way through CSWD property for storage. Anyway, just for a little more context that Everything we're looking at for expansion is within that green box, which is a little bit to the north and east of the current operation so this is very very early on in design still given that we haven't really Gone far into specifics of design rather we were doing some initial drawings to help us decide Will it all fit in the footprint that we have available to us are all the components going to make sense? And can we improve on the flow? So this was one scenario that we looked at where we would utilize some of the existing infrastructure and move material out to a reconfigured area out here, which currently is mostly vacant area that was part of the sandpit Heinsberg Sand and Gravel owns access to the sand reserves there and we would be Suggesting to expand within the area where they've already extracted sand So that was one option and then another option a more idealized layout here where We would be relocating almost all of the components that we currently have in our existing pad out in that same area Everything is a bit condensed, but it is enlarged footprint and designed in such a way that throughput is much more efficient So both of these designs would accommodate based on the calculations that we've modeled Would accommodate the 10,000 tons of food that we project coming our way in coming years It would also result in an increased yield based on changing the Methodology of the composting slightly we would still be aerating, but we would be following that up with extensive windrow curing woodrow and turning and So we would have the the economics for these Of course would involve a substantial investment upfront for building all of that capital in either scenario and then We would hope that the based on projections that we could decrease the operating expenses per cubic yard or per unit of production With an increased throughput and increased inputs, so There's more work to be done. Certainly. They were still pretty early in the process, but this is what we've shared with our board thus far It's ongoing. We're still have our consultant working with us and Are still working out some some pretty big details yet So there will be more more to come for sure And happy to answer specific questions about How where we are so far? Good. Thank you. So questions from the board regarding the proposals So we have 6,000 tons now And the increase is only to 10,000 Yes, and that's surprising. I guess if you're basically have almost no residential Input today So with all the residential input you were planning and I guess I don't understand what what that covers It seems like I guess a small amount of increase and is it worth it? Or what a bigger facility somewhere be more efficient? I guess that that'd be my first question I mean ideally And this is something that the state is working on right now is having more organic infrastructure across the state, right? So we don't want to be the biggest composter in the state We don't want to be responsible for the majority of tons. We want to take care of Chittenden County. So What needs to happen there is there needs to be more infrastructure in neighboring counties right now We take a small amount from outside the district But not much and the goal is to make sure that we have enough capacity for what is generated within our own our own district So it does seem like it's a small increase but keep in mind too that once everyone is required to keep their scraps out of The landfill out of their trash they're going to find ways to take care of that Then they're not doing right now and we did a survey last year. Maybe it's earlier this year asking people what do you anticipate doing when this ban kicks in and The respondents over 50% said they intend to compost in the backyard So if you're looking at all of the scraps generated within the county Residentially that's quite a lot that we're not going to see it all right. So we still also haven't captured all of the business And commercial material. So there is still a section that we're working on there, too So we're making our way through that That tonnage as well. So we're we're comfortable that that number is going to be accurate. We're also Comfortable that there will be some additional infrastructure. So not we may not get everything from jimmy county, you know Again on the borders, they may go to other facilities not GMC and that's great We want that to happen. We want there to be more availability more access not less the first thing that following up on Terry's question is is I've heard two numbers. I've heard 14,000 tons per year and I've heard eight So which one should I be focusing on? Well, the DSM report Was in between 12 and 14,000 tons was what they were saying is generated within Chittenden County So that would be the total that's generated not the total that we would need to manage So what we're expecting to need to manage is in that 8 to 10,000 ton range So what will be the size of this facility? Will it be limited to 10? The designs we looked at so far limited to 10,000 tons and that is an estimate It could be that we only see 9,000 tons of food. We don't really know that and what is it limited to right now? What is it permitted at or what it and what is the host town agreement amount at? So permit wise we're The food alone, I think we're about 60 or 70 percent of the capacity in our in our x-78 permit Total it's 20 Some odd thousand tons of all You know all told all in all just food leaves and all the components minuars and so forth So we have we have actually have quite a bit of room within our x-78 permit still But that was permitted beyond what we actually are finding we're able to handle within Confines of our infrastructure Yeah, and I believe that I'm pretty sure the Williston permit looks to act 78 for the those allowable limits Do we know what are the host town agreement? Okay, there's one thing that I would like to know Look it up So interesting you've talked about food waste and then you talked about food waste plus a lot of stuff that could come in So the fort the 10,000 tons that we just talked about that sounds like it's the capacity is that food waste only or is that all? organic material That would come in that is the food waste component So we're in all of our operations food waste is the driving force everything else We do is basically to make the food component go away in a way that isn't going to cause odor and isn't going to attract vectors And is going to produce a quality finished product So the other things that we add are mostly carbon-based. That's mostly yard waste We also bring in wood chips for porosity and aeration And then we have a limited amount of minuars and bedding so The 10,000 tons is speaking just to the food waste component. We're at six now We were at three seven years ago We're projecting getting up to ten within the confines of this potential design I'm not an expert on act for 148. Is it focused only on food or is it focused on all types of organic waste? Act 148 is actually more comprehensive than just food. It's like when yeah, okay So specific to the composting realm or organics realm of the law The main focus is certainly on food that is the state goals of the state is to reduce is to divert Organics, but recognizing that food is them, you know, the most problematic portion of those organics that otherwise is going to end up in the landfill The leaping yard is already banned from landfill disposes. Yeah, I guess my overall question is is what you know given all the material that comes in some of which I know you you probably have to purchase as Amendment, but what would be the total amount you would be seeing coming in during your design? Sort of year if you will if I don't know if that's a term you use at the build out Full build out tons per year of everything in It would so the yard waste we don't expect that to grow at all We've had the same tonnage basically for 20 years. There's no more new limits on it Yeah, right and there's people are accustomed to doing it if anything it'll probably shrink as backyard composting goes up So and then maneuvers there's it's limited but for a number of reasons We don't do any of the hauling ourselves Some people bring material to us There's a broker who does some of the transportation and there's some limitations there So we don't anticipate that growing And then the only real question mark is around Wood which we currently do purchase that in For porosity primarily at the moment in our current design We would need the carbon content of that moving forward in order to handle all ten thousand tons of food because the yard waste Would not be growing to match the growth of food So that's a new expense and additional volume coming in in the form of wood chips primarily So what the actual tonnage of that is? Yeah, so we would be doing we'd be like quadrupling the amount of wood chips that we're handling now I believe it's I'd have to do a little math here or get back to you on that. It's I Want to say I should probably get back to you My point out of this is if we focus on food waste and talk just about food waste We're not we're not considering the whole facility because the facility takes in a bunch more other materials And I'm trying to get a sense of what is the size of the whole facility not just the portion that's handling food waste Right, so I realize they all get composted together But I think that's only that's an incomplete story if you don't mind me putting it that way if we just talk about food Waste and and what we are showing here. We've shown to our board. This is this is the entire thing Right, so this is not just the food waste area. This is including You know wood brush leave-in-yard food scraps That is the footprint Okay, and as long as we're talking about this and it's up there When I look at that is the existing facility to stay and then the rest is in addition or is The part to the left as I look at it. It will that be the entire compost facility in the future Yeah, so depending on which way our board wants us to go So there this in this particular image that you have up there That does move all of the operations into that portion to the left Okay, so the previous image that we showed you it was a mix of both It was a mix of both with this one it would be the existing facility would either disappear it wouldn't move The existing infrastructure would ideally be used for something else that the district needed Some other function But it wouldn't it would not the intent is not to then add on and continue to grow the facility So if that's the question the intent because that would that would just further exacerbate the inefficiencies of the process Right, so one of the keys is to make it more efficient and by doing that is to try to get again that as rectangular as we can Can you talk a little bit about? Why expand this facility versus look for a second or other facilities and and in this case Maybe in other towns other member towns. Yeah, yeah No, of course, and then that is an option that is another option for our board to consider so Their first charge was to again Have us look at the land the land we currently own so it's not in her additional expenses of purchasing land Ideally you want to start with a nice wide open space, you know Maybe the farm that is no longer wanting to be a farm and and if you've got 40 acres somewhere and you put down the rectangle And you've got the access that's you know, the best manager practice That does come at a cost So that would just be an additional cost of purchasing the land building again the infrastructure out into a new community But it's not off the table That is certainly an option that we have to look at when we're looking at all of the options Starting new in another location if it's available is something we do need to look at if I could It sounds to me like that's a possibility But it you know because you've presented two options you're probably I don't mean to put words in your mouth But thinking it's the expanded facilities going to end up at at the Redmond roadside Well, this is just where we like so we also we have not decided anything our board has not made a decision So this is at the point where we are now So the point we are now we've narrowed it down to these two scenarios on Redmond road So what we next need to do is to look at what are the costs associated with take a look at you know Where might some possible land be? Is there anything really available that is properly zoned and is accessible etc? That is a nice wide open space And then examine that as well and then have the compare and contrast and then go from there Has the district settled on composting as the only way to take care of the organic waste or are you looking at other? Technologies and are those other could those other technologies be cited on Redmond road great question. So Last year Brian might our engineer didn't take a look at exactly that. He looked at I think eight seven or eight different digesters digesting type of of technologies and The capital investment was huge. I think we were looking at anywhere between ten and twelve million dollars and that was Not necessarily even including a deep packaging system. It was very very costly. So we have looked at it The board wanted us to continue to look at Composting you know with all the other benefits of of compost getting this material back into the soil and you know making improving the health of soil health in Vermont and Etc. There are benefits obviously to digestion. There's energy production. They're you know, so there's only pros and cons If the costs are comparable that would be a very difficult Decision to make But at this point the cost of digestion is roughly double if not triple or looking at or improve efficiency and Before we go on is there anyone here who's Is here to talk about that at the public hearing for the charter revisions If not, then we will Just postpone that for a few more minutes Rick you had a response Post-hand agreement and it does reference act 78 and It also Organic waste and organic feedback feedstocks And there's a limit of 24,000 wet tons per year. Okay, so we're nowhere near that Compared to what we've talked about That's a that's a big piece of information right there Has there been any involvement any discussions has the town been been brought in at all in these discussions? In my sense is no Well, you your commissioner has been involved so representative right? Yes. Absolutely. So you have a commissioner and an alternate Who have been attending meeting your commissioner is on the executive board of our board So between Craig and Caitlyn, they've been very active and very involved. So yes, they've been there What will be the process from this point forward and will the town be involved? Yeah, absolutely so And we've begun that conversation as well. So talking with your planning and zoning folks and learning what we need to have as far as Permits from you all and making sure that we have lined that up and know the timeline know your timeline You know our timeline so Once we we started getting towards a possible scenario or a couple or three then Really now is the time which we've begun that process to start to talk to the town and say What do you what do you need from us? What do you want from us? When information is In my understanding is this being a solid waste facility you are not subject to all of the towns Zoning and subdivision requirements. In fact, you're kind of exempted from by statute by a fair amount of them Well, but we also are sensitive to the fact that you have zoning and permitting I wanted to make sure that That we're not using that as an excuse to not get permits. We want to do it, right? So Okay, I did want to pick up on one thing Craig brought up in his memo and He talks about Well, I say Eric's memo That talks about Craig's point and the very lot do you have a copy of this? okay it's The feedback the following feedback regarding CSWD's compost facility expansion is from Wilson's commissioner Craig Adam Craig Abrams and the last one says current proposal now puts New site in or near the sand pit this is very positive as this creates much less room for future landfill and I'm wondering if You can provide Insight into that. I think then maybe I Didn't I haven't seen the memo so I don't know the exact word and I trust your reading of it And I think I've said this to this board before that you know a Landfill is not on my board's immediate radar screen at all We do understand that the land that is site 21 That we're talking about is part of this always use That we have for that land It is possible that it could encroach on the necessary Land needed for a landfill, but If you don't I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but if I could repeat what I heard just to make sure I got it, right? Whatever expansion if if or whatever expansion happens to the compost facility will not impact the district's Future development of a landfill site that you're aware of not that I'm currently aware of I am I'm entirely Sure that there's enough land For what we would want to do anyway for a landfill So I would have to have an engineering firm confirm or deny that but From what I see right now and again if we're containing ourselves with compost to The existing already dug out area of sandpit That does leave room above and beyond and around If we want to build a landfill there, but that's that decision is Very far away our screen right now, but it oh, I mean it was purchased as a landfill Option is still there. It is still there to use it in the near future Or the or even the midterm future. I It's such a stretch It's doesn't appear anywhere in my capital plans for a very long time if at all If it appears that there needs that there the need is arising and again Harmony for these things as you may know takes many many many years Not just, you know, oh by the way next year's capital plan. We're going to start. No, that's not how these things work. So If that need does arise we would be involving the town in those conversations long before Any decision would be made and I would think that would need to be made in conjunction with with the town So that's the long answer to the short answer being no, I don't see that this expansion impacting future needs The next question I mean glad you're hearing it. It's where Eric and Rick is Will the town take a look at the host turn turn the host town agreement and just make sure that the Plans as at least as we know it are consistent with that Yeah, there's another element. I suspect the answer is yes There's no another element that I've already had conversations with Sarah about to that There was original agreement to transfer some land to town That's Sarah and I've talked about that as well and there's no great rush on that That's so part of the host on the green That's it for me. I have a quick. Okay. Just a quick follow-up. So the costs on the page showing the cost per yard and the tonnage the current costs are $43 per cubic yard to process that's really expensive. Do we sell the stuff? Oh, we do sell the stuff. We do. How much do we get per yard for sale? Well, I'm gonna let Dan Jump in here, but I mean that in keeping mind that is the cubic yard Compost and we don't just sell compost. Well, we have many other products Yeah, when those numbers were developed and I should know that these numbers are from the best that we had when we were preparing the September board packet and They they need to be modified. We haven't completed the next round yet But the $43 is our approximation on what the current cost for just making compost not selling Compost or packaging compost or blending it is the $43 and In all of our prior comparisons when we were looking at other facility options We use that as the baseline said, okay, this is what it's costing us now. How do these other options compare? So We currently sell our compost for a blended average of about actually $43 per cubic yard $44 per cubic yard However, we have a lot of expenses that aren't just making compost and so the operation is currently subsidized and All projections are that it would continue to be subsidized by the district I'm just wondering about where the cost the costs are born for the current composting operation through subs subsidies somewhere and you're looking to I Heard the future you were looking to push that on to Is it homeowners residential or no? No for recyclables The year I start charting for recyclables is not necessarily the state says we can they passed a bill to say that we Can charge for recyclables. I knew the budget But we were yes, you because I remember I was very hesitant to feel I can agree with the budget because of that exact reason is a shift in how recyclables would be for Would there be a charge for recyclable materials at places like the drop-off center? So they The option would be similar to so so basically what we do now is we bundle the charge Right, so just like a holler will bundle the charge if you bring in your trash and your recycling and your food scraps It's essentially one price What we used to do was if you only brought in recycling you would be charged because the trash feed would Essentially subsidize all of the other operations brought everything in together. It was considered a bundle fee We can charge for recycling. We have not implemented at the drop-off centers I'm getting off the subject for tonight We and I'm happy to come back and talk another time about anything to do like So I'm sure we'll be hearing more from Sarah and from Craig Regarding the progress that's made on the Proposals, so I'd like to come back more regularly if that's okay and give more Routine updates that's particularly as we're getting closer to different options So thank you very much and The public hearing on the proposed charter revisions and under the The warning for that is that under the authority of 17 VSA section 2645 Wilson select where we'll hold a public hearing to receive public comment on the proposed amendments to the Wilson town and Charter Dream will be held on Tuesday, October 16th at 7 30 p.m.. That's a town hall meeting room first of two public hearings required required under state law before And be considered by Australian ballot at town meeting So open the public hearing and ask Eric to just briefly go over the Rick the things that were considered sure So this will be a recap from what the board saw in July when it move forward to start this process So I'm looking at a memo that Rick gave out in July just to hit the Triter revision that has proposed In section 14 a3. It's on page 6 a proposal to change the position of treasurer from elected to appointed Section 14 c2 it's on page 9 in addition to Provide for the appointment of the town clerk's position But only if the town so votes separately from any vote on the charter This would reflect a change in the 2017 at the legislator pass to allow for towns to vote to have the position of town clerk appointed section 14 c3 Also a president state law add in 2003 to allow municipalities to eliminate the office of Lister This proposed change provides the option that would require the town to vote Separate from the charter change vote at a duly warren's town meeting if the to eliminate the office of Lister Section 14 c5 Proposal to eliminate position of town constables and elected position if approved this change would give the select board the flexibility to the side If the position should be filled and by whom appointment Section 15 a1 This paragraph is added to specifically permit the board to create appointed positions that are not specifically referenced in the charter and section 15 b1 b This will eliminate the requirement for the select board to appoint a pound keeper Section 15 b1 d This would be the position of town's service officer would no longer be required if this change is approved This doesn't prevent the board from appointing someone to the position The rest are changes mainly Correlating with these other with the major changes I described here And so ours a comment from the public at this public hearing on the proposed charter revisions See no hands raised a motion to close Chair I would offer some comments from staff if there's no other Comments from after we close the public hearing there'll be the opportunity to consider other Changes that that legal council has recommended as well So a motion to close the public hearing would be in an order at this point I'd move to close the public hearing on proposed town charter revisions. Is there a second Sorry discussion on the motion All those in favor of the motion to close public hearing say aye Any opposed so then we'll move on to the part that we talked about with possible Changes to propose revisions and this is where staff will give us information Hey, we ran this by attorney Paul Gillies who helped when the charter was put together after to get a final legal Look at this and he had a couple Suggestions for additions here first would be to add new section 15 b4 c to address the quorum requirement of the board of abatement of taxes with added clarity And this is I'm looking at the memo the board was provided tonight And then the second piece is in section 16 h to a For a lot of sections of the charter here. This would add clarity to the authority Of the town manager if the town clerk position became appointed instead of elected after a public vote This would be inserting the language After direct supervision of the town clerk adding if elected in statutory duties except as otherwise provided by this charter And then finally looking at section 16 h3 j inserting this clause So this is looking at Try make sure I explain this clearly in section 14 c to a d on page 9 This would be consistent that the clerk is appointed by the manager with consent of the select board if so if the voters Decided to vote that way to have the position as appointed So this is under the duties of town manager in this section to make it consistent that the town manager would have the authority to Appoint the town clerk and assistant town clerk if the voters so authorize the appointment of positions Hope that's clear. I know it's a lot of pieces of language here. So I'm happy to take questions the legal language So there are questions regarding the proposals from mr. Gillis A couple make sure I'm clear. It sounds like the charter will require the town treasurer to be appointed To choose whether the town clerk is appointed or elected Yes, that's a choice that's that's down the road and The other question is with the assistant clerk it makes mention of assistance clerk But there's no requirement that the town move ahead with an assistant clerk position It's only that it it's sort of Allow, you know allows it. I guess maybe I want to make sure as we're moving forward, we're not creating a position and I just don't realize it Yeah, I'm the system time for position down. We already do. Okay. Oh, there's There's the first For months it is Hermes's assistant treasurer. Okay. All right. So it's it's a position. That's already in the town learn something new every day Okay And I think that that was pretty much it the same thing with the listors though the town could continue with the listors as Elected versus appointed and assuming this charter Is approved and it goes to legislation everything is approved The listors the office of listors will still exist the board of listors We take a separate vote entirely by at town meeting to Okay, second change. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Can you remind us why we're adding the the town clerk to the charter, you know the ability to vote The point the town clerk instead of vote Why are we adding the option when the select board basically agreed and as well as our current town clerk that we didn't Think that was the right direction to go. Yeah, I agree is about that as well. The reason is that I don't know what year but the state Legislature actually changed it so that towns that did not have charters could vote to have the Town clerk is elected and so all we're trying to do is give our town the same ability as any other Community has that doesn't have a charter We're not recommending that that change actually be made at this point in time. However All we're recommending is that the charter would allow for a vote rather than I understand I just wondered why if we didn't think that was the right direction to go or conversely. Why do we have a Which what purpose does the Charter serve above and beyond what the state recommends for the powers of The town and select board allows the town to do things Limited situations differently than the rest of the state law But the problem of course is that ever change we recommend it also has to be approved by the Legislature they're generally not all that They're going to approve right because you're trying to mimic with their So unless we had things that we specifically want we can't do it unless the Legislature would approve it I Is this a general discussion on the on the Charter? the well Visions from the attorney the question we would have right now is whether we want to include the recommendations from council to The proposals then will there be a still be a second Public hearing on the Charter revisions. So when could we put in more inputs? I've been looking at it for a while, but I'm okay with these in general If we're looking for so that's the question tonight is how we Will we approve these to be added to it at then we'll have a chance between now and the second public hearing to Make some other recommendations. Will the chair entertain a motion? Yes That's okay. I had moved to revise the Charter proposal as suggested by legal counsel and staff and direct staff to file an amended copy of the revised Charter proposal with the town clerk And we have a second as your discussion on the motion So the concept would be is after that version makes it through our review and we're happy that then would schedule the Second public hearing there was already a second meeting and schedule. I think I know it already has been scheduled It'll be how probably in December. Oh, okay When would we have our commentary then at that meeting or before that meeting? I would think that we would need to make any proposals Between now and that meeting Should we There are questions more than as much as proposals, but it was on the ethics entries Are those mimicked by the state the ethics entries in our town Charter? Are those basically the same? well I guess I'd have to double-check because the state laws changed a couple times When it was originally created it definitely mimicked state law. In fact the whole charter did that was an intentional decision that the time we did the charter because the town that Long before I was manager here the town had gone through an extensive process of trying to get a charter approved And it was not successful. And so I Suggested we simplify by just mimicking the state statutes as close as you could so that there is no other issue other than We have a charter or not. Yeah, there's been a lot of ethics things lately. So I wonder if that's changed So I just can I request that we look at that or I mean I can look at it, too I don't have an ethics ordinance, which I think does probably need revision But I don't know if that satisfies what you're looking for I just had questions on the ethics ordinance in general. That's a separate document the ethics ordinance I'm sorry the ethics section. Okay. All right. Well, I'll take another look at it You got me going on the ordinance. So I didn't know we had an ethics ordinance. Yes Something new. Yeah, just thank you. You're right. I do I try to myself But my question on the ordinance in general was it ran in a way that seemed like it prevented It prevented town officials from speaking of Issues I would say whistleblower It didn't specifically but it seemed like it prevented anybody from speaking up if that person speaking up was concerned about you know affecting the confidence in government officials and you know when you speak that's almost an oxymoron now Confidence and government In the ordinance not these this is no notes. I didn't know we had an ordinance Just now this is in the in the in the in the charter so I was wondering I guess I can do research as well, but I was I think it would be good to Ensure that people who speak out Looked upon as causing an issue with Ethics right because they're identifying an issue Okay, I think we need to have Staff take a look at and I'll look at the ethics ordinance as well because I See if the two can be It's hard to put stuff in a charter accept the ability to have an ordinance. I think probably Well, I'll take a look at it. Thank you as compared to the current state law I've already asked Ever to take a look at the ordinance that I think it does need updating since it was That's a separate issue Thank you So we're on the motion. Is there any further discussion on the motion? If not, all those in favor of the motion say aye. I may opposed We'll move on into the public hearing for the comprehensive plan amendments I'll read the warning for that read authority of 24 vsa section 43 85 Wilson select were to hold two public hearings to receive Public comment on the proposed amendments to the 2016 to 2024 Wilson copper has a plan hearings will be held on Tuesday October 16th 2018 and Monday November 5th, that's where I saw 2018 each hearing will begin at 745 the town hall meeting room and we have Matt the launcher Here tonight to give us a little bit of insight as to The two things that we're discussing Great. Thank you, and I'll Try to be brief Because it's been a while since we discussed this. It's been about a month About talking about these two amendments and leave some room for questions and clarifications. I know we have somewhat limited time So under consideration by the board are two amendments to the Williston comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan was adopted in November of 2016 so we're about two years into an eight-year cycle right now and There were some items called for in that plan that would result in amendments to the plan itself So it's a you know living document as people like to say and and it sometimes calls for its own revision in particular The development of the village master plan which has been a standing goal in the comprehensive plan going back at least two generations of plan 2011 and 2016 and possibly even in 2006 and what Village master plan has meant has sort of shifted over time and I'll explain that a little bit The other amendment is a more textual amendment to an existing chapter chapter 13 Chapter 13 is currently named open space. It's proposed to be renamed natural and cultural resources and The evolution of chapter 13 was that originally it was the town's open space plan It was its own plan adopted separately from the comprehensive plan and appendicized therein It became eventually a chapter of the plan and more fully integrated and has since Evolved and is proposed to evolve a little bit further into covering some cultural resources as well as the natural resources already discusses and in particular archaeological resources in particular that amendment is Necessary for the maintenance of the town's designated growth center at Taft Corners So about a year ago in November of 2017 We had a five-year review of the town's growth center designation Which is a key planning tool to achieving the town's goals a compact walkable development in that growth center One of the deficiencies that the downtown board found in our growth center designation was that our town plan didn't really say anything about Protecting archaeological resources and that's a criteria that needed to be met. So there's a amendment in chapter 13 creation of section 13.4 cultural resources that addresses and Provides the language for the town to say that yes Archaeological resources are concerned. They are considered when the town plans its facilities and when the town reviews development and some of you may be familiar that We the town as an applicant under act 250 have encountered archaeological resources in the development of our trail system most recently and needed to Invest in protecting them and assessing what they are and things like that This was also in chapter 13 a really good opportunity to take a look at our natural resource protection as our bylaw currently administers it and call for some refinement there the select board adopted changes to the town's bylaws about four years ago in April of 2014 that added protection of quote-unquote conservation areas including wildlife habitat and wildlife travel corridor areas which are mapped in a very very extensive way And so we've had about four years worth now of reviewing rural subdivisions where those resources were almost inevitably identified and then sort of addressed in a kind of general way by the applicant and often didn't really result in a whole lot of Modification to the developments that were proposed So having had that experience the comp plan amendment would call for a re-examination of those wildlife habitat protection rules in particular It's saying let's let's try to focus what we're identifying on the map to the really critical stuff And then possibly apply a little more stringent criteria when we do find ourselves dealing with a development that interacts with those resources so Tighten the map up and make the rules a little more stringent as opposed to the what what staff is perceiving as kind of an overbroad map And rules that don't really have a whole lot of impact on on what gets built So that's that's sort of the nickel tour of the chapter 13 amendments And if somebody sees something in there that I've glossed over I I know I have and I'm happy to answer questions on that But I do want to give you some time on the village master plan as well So Williston has had a village master plan in the past in the past village master plans have been Aspirational documents that talked a lot about the way in which the village would develop and that the village would develop with a grid of streets extending out from Williston Road Extending into what's now the central school and recreation fields properties and into what's known as the Lions property here behind town hall Things have happened since the 1990s when those master plans were were created and adopted Central school has grown the recreational facilities have grown Development has occurred that has more or less precluded the creation of that grid of streets on that side of the road we've determined that a significant amount of the Lions property is wetland and That that constraint would prevent the development of village pattern coming back from Williston Road Nevertheless, we've had several generations of the town plan that have called for the adoption of a new village master plan given those changes and the information we have in the village as Well as staff experience administering the rules we have in the village that are specific to historic preservation and some of the Select board may recall experiences related to looking at potential infrastructure changes in the village Changes to intersections and street layout all of those things It seemed like a good time to take some input on them and come up with a framework for addressing those matters Through this mechanism of the village master plan. So this is today a separate document much like the open space plan once was Planned within itself for eventual Enrollment in the overall comprehensive plan the next time the comp plan is really fully rewritten It's likely that the village master plan would become either its own chapter or its goals and objectives and policies would be fully integrated into Land use transportation etc sections of the comprehensive plan going forward so The village master plan we started a public process back in spring of 2016 and that's documented within the plan itself We collected some historical information talked a little bit about the evolution of the village Some of the architectural styles that are present there and why they're there And the evolution of planning and historic preservation district designation in the village as well as state village center designation in the village so those are all sort of just a collection of history and Statuses and special ways that we treat things in the village. That's a little different than the way we might look at land use Really anywhere else in town then Based on the public input that we took and the history and our understanding of how the town is related To the village in the past the plan goes into three chapters around three sort of action areas and we're talking about Actions related to what we do about the way we handle land use in the village the way we handle people who want to change historic buildings people Want to add to them take them down? Build new things next to them All of those sorts of things add add uses to them that are non residential because it is a mixed-use district So we have a whole chapter that lays out things about land use in the village that need to be addressed Need to be further discussed need to find their way into amendments to the town's bylaws eventually and Some of that was already in the comprehensive plan We already have some existing policies and objectives that say hey take a look at the way you're doing land use in the village It's time to revisit some of this and in fact we've in the last month or so turned the historical and architectural advisory committee loose on Assessing those land use standards already just as it's called for in here because we we know we need some updated Consideration of some of those we have a section about transportation about balancing the desire for a livable walkable village with the transportation demand that Williston Road serves through the village Re-invigorating some of the old desires from the old master plan about streetscape things like street trees burying utilities Adding iron light poles and other elements to the streetscape that help you when you come to village See that you're in a different place along Williston Road and a special place within town And really a goal coming out of that section of looking at those things in a comprehensive way So when you think about an intersection change or a traffic calming measure or a parking issue Or wanting to bury utilities or wanting to have those trees and light poles that you're thinking about all of it together And tying it to these general goals of a village that moves the cars that need to get through But is also pleasant to walk in and along and enhances the historic value of the houses that front on that road So that's transportation. So we've done land use we've talked about transportation in the last chapter is kind of the fun one Which is vibrancy? There's a recognition in this plan that the village is a really attractive Really pleasant place to to be to visit to live in To interact with the town has festivals here the town has its civic core Plays a major role in the protection preservation of historic buildings by having its offices in the buildings. It has them in and that Those things combined with the mixed-use nature of the village means it is and can continue to be and continue to be more So a vibrant place that continues to be Another center of activity in town a different center of activity than what we're trying to accomplish in the growth center where there's opportunities for higher density living for Shopping at a scale that you know the town has generally said it doesn't want to see in the village But that we can do something else here by looking at those standards for mixed use and looking at programming and Really something that kind of dips the toe in the water of economic development that when we have Commercial buildings that are historic that are in a designated village center as we do The owners of those buildings can access some tax incentives to upgrade fix up those buildings keep them viable and This plan calls for the town to begin to assess how it can be involved in that So that's a very quick overview of the village collection of public input history and past planning efforts Land use recommendations transportation quarter recommendations and recommendations related to vibrancy all directing work items that will almost I'd say almost exclusively come out of the planning office as far as the town's rules concerns So we've given ourselves a fairly long list of tasks coming out of it I'll stop there for the moment So this is the public hearing part of the The agenda item so anyone in the of the public who wishes to make any comments regarding the two proposals that we have for us for the comprehensive plan amendments See no hands raised and a motion to close the public hearing would be an order and then Open that up to the board for questions I've moved to close the public hearing on proposed comprehensive plan amendments sir second Your second is there any discussion on the motion? All those in favor of the motion to close the public hearing say aye. Aye. They opposed and now boards If you have questions for Matt regarding either of the documents, this is the time So on the village comprehensive plan, so thank you for the that was a great overview So it was more extensive than I expected so But you did it quickly so appreciate it the the improvements in the village center you're talking about parking lots or businesses you mentioned some things about demolition of people don't keep their properties up to snuff and funding for To help people keep I guess funding sources are those sources being made available to people today So the tax benefits of being in a village center are available to people today I don't believe they're widely well understood Most of the publicity of those is going to come out of the state's downtown program as opposed to coming from the town today I mean, I certainly talk them up when I whenever I talk to anybody who I think might have a commercial use going in the village Say, you know, there's there's these programs and I can at least link you to the person at the state who who administers them But some things the town hasn't really done yet that we could do Would be to assess just how many properties are there where those incentives might be available We could we could publicize them More locally we could do mail-outs. We could do more outreach around those things Those are some of the ideas there. Do we know I mean, maybe you just answered this But there's a lot of good thought in here, but how much room do we really have to do? The things because the village seems pretty packed. I don't know so in terms of adding uses to the village or intensity You talking here a little bit about extra, you know, additional commercial spaces whether it be restaurants We've had it seems like we've had our try it a few of those or at least a couple of them over the years And they've kind of gone out of business and I don't know if that's lack of Certainly not lack of traffic, right? We have plenty of traffic, but Do we understand why that's happened? So I guess that would be one of the things I'd want the The Planning Commission to get feedback on or why have these couple of places? Buildings that we've used for these things Come and gone or failed. I don't know if they really failed or I actually don't know the reason they've left Yeah, you know, I think we've we've had a mix that's kind of come and gone The the restaurant example there there's so many reasons that restaurants end up not Continuing and the two at least two of the restaurant concepts across the street from Town Hall here were things that were definitely not related to constraints that our land use rules put on Or location, I mean just Yeah, I do know that I had nothing to do with the town Okay, restraints or anything else that had to do with porpoises practices. Oh, okay I mean, it's it's not the number one location Well, I mean it was great for residents It was a you'd love to see something work there and and both I had the privilege of speaking with both owners So it had nothing to do with town constraints And I think there's other people that would love to get in and make that go again It's a it's a business practice thing It seems you know besides the school things and the things in the town Square, I guess you'd call it where the statue is That's a great area for those kinds of get-togethers, but there isn't much I don't know. There isn't a lot other than that and there's school activities You know if you have kids in school still but besides that there isn't a lot to draw you down Well, right and so one of the comments that's one of these things takes off right I heard over and over from people vibrancy may there used to be three places in the village You could get a creamy. Yes, right over and over again. I would hear this and You know, it's kind of funny, but that's that's a really great example of I live in Williston I just got home. It's it's Thursday or Friday afternoon. I'm feeling like getting out of the house I don't really feel like going down into the intensity of Taft Corners I just came from there or I just came through there on my way home from work I've been at my sister lives in Williston, and I've been at her house before and we said well We need to go get something Do you think the corner quick stop has it because I'm up on Sunset Hill And I don't feel like going all the way into town That says those few anecdotal things say to me. There is some demand For the village to be used in that way and that if people had some reasons to use it in that way more than there even are today You you get a little more of that vibrancy. You get a few more businesses that might feel viable And I think on the on the question of scale and capacity and demand It's it's all a question of size and it's a you know, you you could have a Creamy window in a fairly small space. We talk about pop-up Demonstrations as they relate to traffic calming or transportation infrastructure, but you can also pop up businesses The the planning world is really excited right now about things like well We want to see if a restaurant would work in this spot So we'll put a food truck there two nights a week and see if people will come and there are there are you know ways to identify locations that will work for that and Ways on our side to look at the permitting to make sure that it's something somebody can react to in a you know Right now if somebody wants a food truck in village, they go through site plan review. So that's 12 weeks You know, that's the DRB review cycle You might look at the village and say in a couple of pilot locations We want to streamline the permitting for something like that because it's worth trying out Those are some of the things we might end up looking at Creamy is that Adams, but it's not I don't think that's part of the village, right? It's not part of what was mapped for this plan It's close Okay, and the only other comment It's a small one was on street lamps and I have to admit I mean I walk walk by there all the time. Do we have street lamps on the main street now? We have them at intersections. There may be a few at major driveways along the town hall as well But not sort of that regular talking about the old-fashioned. I would just say we whatever we do We should do things in a manner that Well, it's historic but reduces light pollution, you know Because we do enjoy nice dark skies and Williston so So far, I mean, they're probably not at halfs corners, but in much of Williston, so And you know street lighting like that it wouldn't be replicating anything that was ever here before sure It wouldn't be it wouldn't be returning something to a historic state But it's generally understood as a way of signaling that you're in a different part of town You know, you'll you'll see other places if you've been through Danville on route to you'll see street and sidewalk Improvements that came with lamps and furniture and it tends to slow you down because there's some texture there along the road now Anything else for Matt tonight? I think kind of similar to what Terry was exploring is I always have this difficulty between reading You know something like this and it reads great But the implementation of it is just so difficult, you know Sometimes because of the constraints that are out there like route to is a major quarter We aren't going to change that we probably have limited ability to change that Williston the village is rather limited in terms of the population. That's nearby, you know You know, we can't change that in fact We don't want to change that because we talked about the dense density should happen in other parts of the town So it's that question And I'm not expecting an answer But it's that question of between writing something that provides a great vision but how How do we? It's not we but how is that vision, you know, actually, how do you accomplish it? Real as you mentioned some mechanisms that are out there, you know that the The tax incentives and those types of things but What's that you have to have that person who desires to want to do that the one who wants to open the restaurant Or the one who wants to take a building and you know, and that's a bit of the question I'm asking is how do you get that person into Williston given that, you know, initially There may not be that big of a draw because we just don't have the density in the village to really support a restaurant yet You know, how do we do I and it's not how do we deal with it? It's just I guess maybe it's a frustration You know between a great vision, but knowing There are these and I'm going to use the word deficiencies. It's not the right word I know that that are going to be so difficult to overcome And and added into that is we all know of some great downtown areas villages that grew organically somehow I won't even try to mention some and how do we Get that same Sort of vibrancy to use that word of a downtown that or a village that grew organically and is It's working How do we get that when we're trying to manufacture that? You know versus they're having it happen organically so those are just some Musings on my part one one great piece of advice. I recently read was you want to articulate the vision over and over again Until people start articulating it back to you And so saying what you want, you know, waterberry. I'm sure said for many many years We want to bury those utilities it took a tropical storm and a major redevelopment project sort of spurred by that to get There but if you never say this is something what we want No one's ever going to say it back to you and I think that's part of it And I absolutely agree it makes total sense to get that language into you know the town plan so you can start that conversation Yeah, and that's it for me Thank you Matt. We appreciate it. I have a few typos that I'll email to you on my couple of times. Thank you Thanks very much. There will be another public hearing on this. Yes, it will. Yeah So move on then to the muddy brook crossing bridge replacement alternatives Lisa, are you heading this up tonight? Okay There is it much space All right, so perhaps Multiple hats Perhaps all of you would introduce yourselves and then and your affiliation and then we'll go from there Well, thank you first for hosting the discussion this evening. My name is Tom De Petro I work in South Burlington Public Works and with me tonight is Emily chairington My co-worker in South Burlington in the stormwater section and you guys know Lisa it sounds like And you may remember John from a meeting about a month or so ago John's with Hoyl Tanner and associates. He's the consultant that's doing this scoping project for us And so we were here like I said about a month ago to talk about what the problem was since that time John has done some work in his team to develop some alternatives and Before I give away his whole presentation. I'm gonna turn it over to him. Do you want their microphone over there? We've got about three minutes left. So We're you are usual 20 to 30 minutes late on some things. So, yes All right, well, we'll go through the slides pretty quickly. So we have time questions and answers and get into the alternatives Quick background. So yeah as Tom introduced With Hoyl Tanner and this is a joint project for the city of South Burlington in the town of Wilson with funding Our project location you can see here. Well, you don't see my mouse You can see in the center of the screen there is it's at Muddy Brook where Kimball Ab and Marshall Ab meet At the border of Wilson and South Burlington So we were here back in June and that was the local concerns meeting portion of the project where we collected feedback from you all hopefully I know there's some familiar faces back in the crowd here today and In that time we developed the purpose and need statement and developed alternatives that we're in present here today We can come back to any of slides later on The the existing covert is a 15 foot diameter metal pipe that was installed in 1970 with heavy corrosion that caused the pipe buckling Interventional failure with the temporary bridge put back in there in August 2017 So we measured the bank full width of the Muddy Brook to be approximately 32 feet and the depth from the road down to the stream beds about So it's a pretty deep crossing For a small crossing public structure. It's a class 2 highway It's a major collector on the federal aid highway system. It's posted speeds on Kimball Avenue 40 miles per hour and Marshall Ab here in Wilson at 30 miles per hour So the bicycle and pedestrian facilities we have a sidewalk that ends on the north side of Kimball Avenue just west of the project And a 10 foot share juice path that continues along the south side of Kimball Avenue through South Burlington With nothing Getting across here and then this was what was really identified in these previous studies in the 2006 share juice path study with the 2010 update is that There is a goal to for connectivity here between the town of Wilson City, South Brownton infrastructure With a barrier being Muddy Brook. So Hopefully as we look through the alternatives, that's one of the things we kept in mind So this is it. This was the purpose and need statement really Reviated with much longer wordier version that will be in the scope of study So it's if we're the ultimate goal the replacement of a failed culvert and temporary bridge with a permanent crossing for the Kimball out of Marshall Avenue Solutions and treatments that improve the water quality of Muddy Brook minimizing the resource impacts Providing safe facilities for all users across Muddy Brook including bicycles and pedestrians as well as vehicles And then improving connectivity between the existing and proposed bike and pet facilities So this is from our hydraulic analysis and what we're looking here is is the existing and proposed from the 50-year storm But so when we take the crossing at 15 foot diameter pipe and we widen it out to a 30 to 34 foot structure This is this what happens and what you can see here in the green and the reds is on the velocity profile on the side The the reds indicating higher velocities Which means the river the stream is being contracted and it's pushing out kind of the pipe flow It's really gushing out of there. You can see that red on the existing at the outlet there And with our proposed structure, we were able to remove a lot of the downstream Issues, but there's a backwater that's happening with the darker blues on the existing Which which is because of the smaller pipe size that means we have slower velocities upstream We have to open it up in order to with any replacement. That's what's required to be the minimum 32 feet So what you will see is that lower water elevations, but slightly increased velocities on upstream And that's just something we want to keep in mind because we want to make sure that Embankments get the proper tow protection in the final design so for the upstream and that influence area That's a cool video So This is a particle So it means like a drop a whole bunch of ping-pong balls into muddy brook and it shows you how the currents are moving and it shows You just upstream it's on the south side of the money of Kimball Marshall have you have a Tributary are there in a little a little spot where water collects right before it comes back through This is a structure elevation I think what you'll see with with many but any real alternative here what we found was You know the buried alternatives. I'll get to in a second is the preferred alternative a buried structure It's so deep so there's a lot of fill on top of it And this is just giving you a kind of visual indication of what we might see here when we're looking Either upstream or downstream right at the face of the structure With some stone treatment along the bottom. It's an open bottom structure in all cases This is the matrix for it. So starting with alternative number one for the structure, I we separate the alternatives into structure alternatives and Up in the roadway, and we'll get into the roadway and the bike and pad features in any case We know that this needs to be replaced. So the no-build alternative isn't really feasible It does not meet our purpose indeed at all. So it's part of a studies part of any v-turn study And then the last one alternative number five on the bottom there We didn't evaluate a bridge structure. We knew that the cost Installing a bridge would be more expensive based on our experience and structures of the span as well as the The long-term durability once you put a bridge in you got joints You got issues that can happen up at the road surface And a buried structure provides better alternatives for utilities crossing underneath So in the three structure alternatives all three of them would meet the purpose indeed So we have one being a precast art structure and the other would be a cast in place So it would be formed and cast out there in the field and then the last and structure Number four is a multi plate, which is a metal plate that's bolted together out The road closes duration associated with those so the ones that come pre-fabricated like a multi-plate or a precast option It takes less time so about seven weeks of road closure and I'll note that in all of these alternatives the Road closure is what we're considering because it's the resource impacts on both sides It didn't really leave any options to consider Temporary roadways through here and there is viable alternatives to circle rocks So the goal is to keep that duration as small as possible for a cost effective solution that's highly durable and When we met with the town in the city a few weeks ago, it was really decided based on We all concluded that based on those costs and the Durabilities of the precast and the concrete alternatives being a little bit more than an aluminum metal plate structure would be For the value. It's the preferred alternative was structural number two, which is the precast concrete arch So now we're looking up at the roadway From the first meeting that is where a lot of the interest so The first alternative for the roadway this elevation that we show here the cross-section through it is two 11-foot lanes with two five foot Intended bike bike lanes on the road. So it's an on-road facility for bike lanes The 32-foot total width of curb-to-curve matches what you'll see further down along Kimball Avenue It's a little different than Marshall, but but it does it is consistent with the remainder of the car of Kimball What I'm gonna go into a plan to you here It's tough to see here Look better. It was nice and close on my computer screen But you there are some of those pink lines here the along the bottom there and I want to Right away actually goes out and they initially constructed this culvert They had gotten some additional right away to install the culvert. So it does expand out So the replacement structure you can see in the darker black In the center of the screen there is it's all within the right Some of the slope limits though do extend kind of close to the borders of it So depending once you get final survey, they're likely will be some minor temporary easements for construction and some minor permanent easements as well And what you're looking at is the red is the roadway the yellow is the wide and shoulder wide and shoulders for a bike lane and If you can see on the left side of the screen there on the further picture The green indicates the sidewalk that we would and it really should show on that path on the bottom as well We don't want to promote people crossing out the way from community drive That's a stopped four-way stopped intersection if people are gonna cross that's where we want So in this alternative when we're putting people back on road Proposed removing both the paths on the north and south and you'll see that sidewalk Actually gets removed in all cases because we don't we have a good facility on the next alternatives That we're proposing to put people on we want to keep them on that And you'll see that some of the dashed lines that just indicates a steeper slope where we might stone line the slope And that's gonna be the biggest difference you're gonna see on the next two alternatives when we start to put in some of the shared use paths So here's the first path alternative we looked into so continuing that 10-foot shared use path that exists in South Burlington across the moneybrook crossing And this has two 11 foot lanes to four foot shoulders still a wide enough shoulder for commuting cyclists who prefer to stay on road But we want to put those other users who want to continue on a shared use path Maybe some kids some neighborhood connections people who just feel more comfortable out on the path We're putting them out there and and there is a curve in this so in this solution We need a curve because it doesn't have that much of a buffer between So a little bit of a vertical interface between the vehicles and pedestrian's out on the shared use path We'll come back And this is looking again from the top view so we have continuing in the darker gray We're continuing that shared use path along the side there and with this alternative you can see that dashed line on that on the slope That indicates that we're gonna have to put a bit more of a stone fill on that slope We can't grass line it's just a bit more of a protected and armored slope because of how steep it needs to be To reduce those impacts and keep it tight to where the slope limits are right now All right, and then this is alternative number three So this is the 10-foot shared use path with a 10-foot buffer between and the benefits of here is that we have a green space that we can do The green space we can collect some storm water off the roadway, which we won't need An inlet rate in the roadway where you do if you have a curb so we can sheet float all off into there It's not really shown but there'd be a little dip in that grass that can swell Treat the storm water a little bit before it dumps into money broke and also put a little bit of snow storage So when we look at the alternatives matrix coming up in just a couple of slides So those are some of the the benefits that really jump out for this third alternative So again similar to the other pictures you can see the blow up here on Closer side to the audience in public And this is the shared use path a little bit of green space in between Come back to any of these of you have questions. So looking at the three different roadway alternatives or bike and pet alternatives The first one with no path. It doesn't provide a separation between bicyclists and pedestrians and vehicles It's a partial on-road facility. So as far as it meeting the purpose and need it does But it just just noting that it's partial because it's provided non It's right Right away impacts would be non-essential because you're within that right away just rebuilding the road And then whatever is needed to actually build the Structure down below that's nothing about that those these comparisons In all of these there are utility impacts the temporary utility up impacts So for the telecom lines and the very gas lines when we get into construction That's standard construction practice. That's not to keep it as a note on the side And then the resource impacts are temporary as well So what you're gonna have to We're gonna have to excavate and get down and we're gonna be in the stream. So we're gonna have some resources for the cost for this first alternative at one point six you know hundred One million six hundred ninety nine thousand Is what we estimated the project value here for instruction Alternative number two with the green space So it meets the purpose and need statement, it's it has minimal right-of-way impacts as well Potential pole relocation for utility pole. That's that could be in its path temporary resource and then this is a 1.79 million And the third one which I think our design team which is the preferred alternative Is the 10 foot shared shared just bath by the green space in between so again pointing out This is providing the best user comfort for the bike and pedestrian facility It's got a little more separation to it. It has green space that can provide snow storage as well as stormwater treatment There's no catch basin grates out in the roadways on the shoulders for those commuter cyclists It meets the purpose and need it has minimal right-of-way impacts It is utilities again minimal mostly temporary potential pole relocation This one I will say that until we get surveyed until we really know the limits of the slope It has potential for some some of that little tributary stream on the inlet side of the structure and some wetland impacts, but Permanable is where I put it. You know, it's just we've got to figure out exactly where those fall Now this has a one point eight million dollar estimated construction cost And that brings us to the end of my presentation as quickly as I could speak so the goal of this meeting is To select a preferred alternative to move forward within the design so we're here today To collect feedback, but really hopefully we can come away with what you guys feel would be Your preferred alternative for this solution that continues to move forward through the preliminary design process So we would need to come up with an agreement by both towns as for a preferred Alternative and has South Burlington made any determined determination on that at this point No, the way we were working this is we were going to have our public hearings here You know get our input and then take that to South Burlington City Council as an agenda item soon You know as scheduling allows Thanks This is an opportunity for members of the audience to ask questions as well as the members of the board So we contacted Wilson and South Burlington just to see if there was a quarter that we needed to try to provide wildlife crossings intentionally in the design And at that time nothing was identified, but I know I heard that as well a comprehensive plan Want to go back and make sure that if there's a map that shows anything along my work But we know didn't study because what we want to do in that case is Raise the height of the of the pulver which could add some cost because you have a little bit of taller walls But it allows more natural daylight throw and Jeremy know In this we can do some things to improve The crossings a pretty flat Work through here, so it's really not to be bored with the kind of a maybe what what wildlife we're trying to help get through The slope Off-hand it's pretty mild It's around 2% it does drop off a little bit when you get downstream I So yeah, so it would It would flow through the you would collect in this way And then we would need to put a Catch piece and structure at the low point because this road To We've collected there and then out let it down into The cross down into the money So it's not a infiltration type system The swell Would generally allow for infiltration, but for those high-flow events for the big rainstorms We would need to howl at that so you don't get a puddle You would get rid of yeah, that's the big things it pulls those outside of the shoulder so the commuter cycle is small Do you mind I'm confused a little bit so there would still be catch basins even though there's also the 10-foot wide Grassy strip in alternative for Okay, the catch basins just would not be in the road. They would be in the grassy swale strip, right Acts like that that soil and grass just acts like a filter evidently No, it's definitely You know it does provide treatment, but under higher flow events We need we do need to capture and get it out of a grand spring mountain things like that I could just repeat what I heard just to make sure I understand it at times that that 10-foot wide strip would be overwhelmed by the amount of rainfall and then The catch basins to collect that amount that can't infiltrate Okay So it's better than just using catch basins, but it doesn't get rid of catch basins If you will you know it moves the catch basin out of the road with shoulder, so it's out of that commuter Traveler is there a catch basin or is it really some kind of an outlet? Below the center of that It depends on how you know so it depends on where we can put it And if we have room to move it away from in 10 within 10 feet, it's tough to get that go ahead time Let's get because so we're here tonight not to do a final design, right? But generally speaking this would have a storm water use that 10-foot strip in addition to providing it snow storage and kind of that additional separation for biking pads And I Guess I understand that on the western end of the project the 10-foot separated path starts at the stop sign that you need to drive and Pick so across before we stop Okay What happens on the All right, so currently It it doesn't continue so let me let me take a step out of this Here's a here's a picture at brown out We're trying to connect make that connection Whether we go down marshal app or if we actually cross the street without a shunt plate We haven't decided completely yet, but we know that connection needs to be made Matt and I have been talking about it with a project that may be going in on shunt like shortly and Discussing what our options are there I guess I think it's imperative that the project include a Solution on the eastern end as to how people are going to get safely Realistically across the shunt pipe, which is the safest bike and we discussed that every last meeting other staff meeting that we do Need to incorporate that we don't want to hold either project up for one or the other because obviously this Rental bridge is costing both town and city monies. We want to make sure that that goes forward But in the back of our mind, we all know that we need to make the connection like I said I've been talking and planning it's only pretty Regularly this week in regards to this so we know that it's in the works We're trying to hope that we can do both construction projects at the same time as we know Any projects like the replacement of the bridge and culvert and the installation of a path takes Many years for funding to come on come forward and many years for the design and the permits to go through The the number that you showed earlier Does that that includes the Structure underneath is that correct? Yeah, that's the combined Project and then that cost would be split 50-50 between the town and Sitting in that would have to be formalized between the city of the town also the need to obtain some grant funding for this that extends the schedule a little bit from now till you know This is all done, but that's that's our strong intent is to find a couple funding sources for this So back to to Ben's point to about We talked about in the last meeting couldn't signage up saying that We have to recognize that the path ends up ahead and the ideal place to cross or get back on road and using wide Shoulders or initials if you're a cyclist trying to get the sunpike would be a community drive So we would put some signage up at that point and also signage that the path ends up ahead The the challenge is is that this is primarily a project scoped around replacing the cover But at the same time the ability to put a facility up above that can eventually connect and Lightly has a good potential for future fundings with the bike bike and pet program Because you have that that sunpike or a south brown now Marshall out facility right there and up here and a goal maybe on sunpike There would need to be some some other Intersection improvements at sunpike though when on that time so We are are focused around getting cover replacing project done but providing future facilities Means for a future facility that connects I have another question on the cost so the the structure the 1.2 million dollars for you know option Structure alternative number two That includes no roadway. That's just putting the precast in the And fixing up the bed So that's no road So any road cost a half a million dollars on top of that And that's just the road on top of the bridge and the ramp up and ramp down Yeah, I have a million that just I don't know it just seems Because then it would say I look at this and say well, let's get the best one because the difference between A road and the best road is only 10 percent maybe Or some small some small amount. I'm going in the opposite direction. I was worried I think like rick was it you had to add the two costs because that actually seems Seems more likely to me From the roadway to the screen bed It's but the difference between a road and the best road, you know with the biggest buffer is A little over a hundred thousand dollars You don't bury the Path We have that problem on Mountain view right where it's close to the road That's a similar context to the other portions of the surgery's path that are further down on kimball And then on marshal out by south brown out it matches the existing facilities a little better Based on the car. I don't know if we're supposed to come I mean based on the cost it would seem like option three Is desirable, but we should also one of the goals was to make sure we had this connection as well So does that factor into the cost whatever you have to do to make The connection between the towns as well Go ahead. I'm just I'm not quite sure how to answer that This does make the connection with that 10 foot path right and the four foot lanes So are you talking connections? Well, there's a scope of our project here like Well, I guess I thought from the first presentation. We were talking about connecting to the next road the next roadway Isn't that the continuity because there are paths on opposite sides of the road now, right? There's nothing on willson's So it's going to add right at this where you have that red line right there where it shows And what it's going to be on willson's Agenda to connect it to whether continues down marshal out there goes down a short way But that's not going to be a project that's coordinated to the south ground It's going to be completely separate, but we're going to do them side by side I thought that when when you talk to us before you were talking about including that in this project up to that intersection Right now the biggest concern is the crossing because this culvert is so narrow We wouldn't be able to put a facility on there right now So we're trying to incorporate it in with the culvert replacement But once it gets across the culvert and cross muddy road Then that's going to fall onto willson to continue it down whether it goes down marshal out or crosses and goes down something Which we already know needs some intersection Upgrades Let me ask terry's question a little bit differently does alternative two versus three make Is either one more beneficial from making the willson connection? And the same thing from the south brolinche inside Yeah, okay That would have been my conclusion Okay I don't know why i'm fixing that cause This the 1.8 million that we're talking about does that include the cost of removing the existing bridge? Yes It does oh my the temporary structure. Yes. Yes And then and then I assume that it also includes all the permitting the engineering costs and everything else that goes along with No, this is construction only so there there would be so I think we were talking about approximately 200 or 2 million dollar project When you when you include in it's another couple hundred thousand, okay We've been talking about it's a 2 million dollar project You know all encompassing hopefully staying below Dole can we talk a little bit about? 2 million dollar project 50 50 split at least that's the proposal right now between the two municipalities Will vtrans participate in this at all? And help fund that or I mean what are the other sources of revenue to pay for this Generated a nice list of possible revenue sources for us Kind of pros and cons we didn't really we didn't bring that today, but the plenty of those are vtrans sources With different maximum amounts different cost sharing amounts some you can combine together state and federal funding So once we have our alternative, we're going to start chasing that I could repeat what I heard just make sure I got it right is there likely options. We just don't know what they are right yet You have a world of possible option, right? We just don't know which ones would yeah different challenges Yeah time frames There's no guarantee right now from vtrans for instance that or the feds that this is the amount you get when you Have to replace this major connector Connection between the municipalities Of this hearing I I have a comment that it's sort of thinking out loud and I hope other cyclists will jump in and help to Articulate this right now option three Separated input path, which is very nice and continues what they have in front of community drive On the south side of the road, but we've already said that for commuting cyclists They're already going to have gotten to community drive if they are eastbound And see a sign saying the safest place to cross is is Well, basically that's going to be a path nowhere If wilson doesn't decide to do a bike path on marshal And if we haven't decided yet whether we want to route cyclists on shunt pipe or marshal Then we don't really have good information will decide Whether that ten foot separated path is worth a hundred thousand dollars My question john is How hard is it to move the separated ten foot path to the north side We looked at that alternative And that has issues with Right away, you've got a historic property on the north side and it puts you With a lot more challenges as you continue up shunt bike Around that intersection with shunt bike as well as there's archeological issues on that side wetlands issue on that side so Where the facility is now it's out the brown on the south side And still not knowing where it's going to be In the future whether it's going to continue because right now it's on the south side of marshal avenue or by south brown all over So it does make sense. And this is I just pulled up here. This is from The master plan. I showed you that picture earlier. This is a blue line is is the path there. So From what I Can see from the comprehensive plan that is currently the intended route How How it gets there. I can't do that in this scoping study um, but I think John captain with e-trans on tv he would He that would be a good project to take a deeper look into and see how feasible it is to continue On marshal out down that path or if you wanted to go shunt bike There's still is the option across a shunt bike But that intersection needs to be designed for it and and prepared to handle how you get the cyclist across It's a tough It's a tough curve there. So we talked about potentially going past the curve crossing and coming back over But because of those restrictions on the north on the north side or the downstream side of the mighty brook crossing That was not a good place to try to move the path over to and it doesn't necessarily connect With the future vision I understand the problem Is that there are going to be many years from the time this is implemented until the 10 foot separated path is not a path to know We're hoping that they're going to go hand in hand Like I had mentioned earlier matt I've been communicating the large vacant property on shunt bike road is the robert property And they're coming in for subdivision currently now And there was talk with us and with the developer of going along the front of the property along the backside of the property Across country and then coming out in france out from out So we're still in the works of trying to figure out how to connect it But we're not going to wait while we're doing the design and getting the funding for the culvert crossing Until we get that in hand work the town rules is going to continue to work to try to figure out how we're going to connect at the same time What's the best piece of building for us I just want to make sure I heard you correctly It's it's going to be very difficult to have the 10 foot path on the North side of the bridge the bridge the crossing you're saying it pretty much has to be on the south side Based on where the impacts will be it would be more difficult over there whether it's possible anything's possible I would think um, I would say it It is easier to turn it on the south side And you would ultimately put it on the other side You would ultimately have to cross it on the south road because like Correct, so you're still pushing Yeah, okay Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, sir So I've been in the community across that bridge for almost 15, 22, and 10 times a day every day So driving or cycling just do you mind me asking? Riding your bike, okay, or walking. Um, can we go back to the Proposed to point out Cross-sectional you guess the alternative Go back one more time to the this so Those two shoulders there are going to match the new construction that just went on Marshall Avenue, right where they repaid everything and gave wide shoulders so past the new Veterinary clinic and the cocoa station that was widened Was it widened to our shoulder for the the lanes? So the same with but we narrowed out the travel lane and gave more room for the shoulder What is the shoulder width? Shoulders You write on kimbalad right now, right? So just pass this where you have curves. It's 13 foot lanes and three foot shoulders So it's essentially the same cross-section here except And that's what we're proposing with tom is to restrike those at 11 and give five foot lanes So you that that yeah, you would feel a pretty big difference The two feet In the four foot shoulders as well so that like on the other alternatives where we We recognize that this isn't going to be painted Shoulder bike lane because you have a facility for people who want to be off-road But it's still a comfortable four foot Most commuters would feel pretty good using that And a lot better than what's out there now the bridge is terrifying Currently with the temporary bridges. Yeah, it's even worse I just want to focus on this conversation you're having right now So let's just say this is the alternative that's chosen or whether it's the one with the 10 foot But the avid commuter Who's not going to want to get on the shared use path for Various reasons. They will be able to use those four foot shoulders to get across the bridge Okay And for them there will won't be that problem that had to know it because Really right now if we're heading Eastbound after the cross the bridge we get until that can turn when And you couldn't do that For the commuter there will be a big issue Which currently is We're just trying to get across muddy brook which has been a barrier for that path For a long time now So board After hearing The conversations tonight. Is there Any consensus that we might come up with tonight as to which alternative that we would recommend I personally like this one. I mean if you're going to go for just go for the entire thing I think it addresses Some of your concerns. Certainly the gentleman has been speaking. I mean I mean if cost is the deciding factor, there's not much of a cost difference And so it it certainly appears that alternative number three out of the three I mean alternative one is not an option. I think really I like the larger buffer between the bike lane and the shared use path It's pretty cool to have a green space over what's going to feel like a bridge Yeah, yeah, just john one quick question I just feel I need to ask just to make sure it was or maybe it wasn't looked at Was it all thought about putting the bike path Off off not part of the crossing but a separate crossing for the bike path 2006 and 2010 study Oh, they did look into that in other locations on body brook And they found that that wasn't feasible because of permitting challenges In the slides, but in this case. Yeah, if if you were doing if we did a bridge if that was the preferred solution Then you would probably have a separate bike and ped bridge facility Side by side with it or it would be a widen bridge to handle both So when we started the analysis and went before we ruled out saying bridge really doesn't meet What the town and the city want to have to maintain in the future Uh, that's that's when it kind of got real bad for a totally separate facility. Okay For any intended structure for your for these are for these For precast arch structure Hundred years is really what what we'd be looking at with that because you're you're far away from the salts of the road You're down below which is the the goal of the various the the varied structures You set and forget it, you know that really there's very little maintenance for the varied structure with a bridge When you're out the it would be less it would be closer to 75 years with maintenance So that was one of the big factors in deciding which structure 100 years There are no more questions and it sounds like to me that we have consensus among the four of us That alternative three is the one we would recommend To the city of south browns And we need to make sure that we all agree of alternative number two of the arc the Precast arch just to make sure Again it could raise the cost of the options because you're raising the height likely of the structure It would raise the cost of the options but you might be able to counterbalance it Now we will in the study have you know recommendations for next steps and funding sources will be part of that study You know, it's not relevant to which selection which alternative selection as much today As they can all pretty much find the same funding sources So Yeah, I'm going to look into that more You know first step make sure where we are with the corridor plan And then see if there's options for additional funding I'm glad you brought that up. So the Reason for going with the precast is primarily the shorter time the road is Not close to traffic But the shorter time is to construct it and close to traffic Right and the longer the life span Higher durability. So an aluminum Multi plate structure, which is uh We were you know, we typically stay away from galvanized steel because that's part of the issue you have right now Is that that galvanized steel corrodes over time? Yep, and bubbles I'm not at all interested in I shouldn't say not at all interested. It's I I was trying to compare the cast in place versus the precast Right. Yeah cast in place is slightly more expensive. It's a longer time frame complete So you have to form all that and likely you you would have to temporarily put some forming in the stream, which could be a permitting challenge um, so it's we thought originally that That might come out as a cheaper alternative, but when we priced it out So a Precast alternative was was where When you look at duration and cost Did I not hear you say earlier though because I missed it I just want to make sure I understood correctly that there was virtually no difference between those two In in section in the way they look in the shape of that and and in Just in in general structure is one going to be all that much better than the other No durability. They're about the same. So durability both high I did hear correctly time for you to construct down the precast and then some real price. Thank you It has some place you have to let the concrete whereas the precast is already cured in the plant and which is working out in objects installed Another way of looking at it is it actually could be less environmentally intrusive to install Thank you, but can it the the question whichever way to go is is you know, I'm not at all worried about Choosing the best way to go, but it's I was wondering if Jared you're concerned about the habitat and whether the habitat issues can be mitigated satisfied whatever by a precast first What's that? Okay It's just if there are concerns about wildlife habitat or corridors And would would that possibly force us into a precast? I mean, sorry a cast in place type structure versus a precast And I'm just wondering if Okay, and we won't know those answers to our further along Okay Okay, so at this point Are we okay with the precast arch? Yes, I mean it'd be our druthers certainly It may not be possible. It may not sound unlikely that it won't be possible, but it may not be possible But at this point we're okay with that. Yeah good so I think we're done here tonight with this so thank you very much I the only question I have is since the city council hasn't weighed in on this You know yet Yeah, I I guess I would say that if the city of south brolin has a different view on this then I'm sure we'd be open for communication on it to understand why that might be regardless staff doesn't have a different view So we're all put together a memo recommending that they approve Something similar And we'll recommend they go on a consent agenda But of course it's up the city council Because we've done all our public outreach in wilson for this that was our plan And obviously that there's some reason they come back and say there's no way And obviously we have to come back and say I just want to make sure that Why is that communication remade open? Good. Thank you all for thanks everyone So let's move on to the sidewalk plan review eric. Um, I think you're heading us up Just be a second I think I should see you Well, thank you for letting us know and good luck with that very new yes No, I think that's fine. Thank you So we're here tonight to give an update on sidewalk and multi-use paths and in the town The last 10 years as we're kind of looking ahead as well with budget time coming up Try to brief the board Well, the town's done the last decade and then kind of looking forward what's on deck And we tried something new for some public outreach on this over the last month We built a map here planning and public works Put together so everything in orange is We're supposed to only push the red button Everything in orange when it comes to get it back up here will be what's been What's been built in the last 10 years or it shows our current network And then what's in the purple color is what is proposed? So A number of things that are proposed we asked folks to go through on the map and react to it And place a pin to give feedback We found when I looked at that just kind of what our trends were and this wasn't a scientific survey I think we had 60 pins dropped some were by the same people multiple locations I think there might have been three or four of those It gave you the option to say what street you lived on To make a comment if you wanted to so I kind of looked at that We just kind of a quality of analysis just on on that sample. This was put out on social media and front porch forum so I looked at these clusters and we had 11 responses the section of route 2 from Taft corners to the village for a sidewalk multi-use path And a number of these are in the CERC alternatives plan moving ahead these major kind of open areas for Connecting places in town Eight also looked at the section mountain view from route 2a to old stage road 7 looked on route 2a between Bodger Lane and VSECU and there's a proposed multi-use path As part of a development just off route 2a to fill this gap A couple other cluster areas looking the area between metal ridge in the village one responder commented They don't drive there's no public transportation from metal ridge to the village And five responses looked route 2 just down from here between here and French Hill And that's obviously a challenging area French Hill area, but also kind of neighborhoods that are down the route to easterly here as well So what we did is we looked at those to give an idea what the community thinks planning moving ahead and A number of these here are CERC alternatives projects that We've reached out to v-trans It sounds like we can have some folks there to come in in November to brief the board on the status of these CERC alternatives projects because They're they did the CERC alternative study and now it's kind of looking when it's going to be in the in the tip plan the transportation improvement plan Make the board on those then But um, open up to the board tonight any questions about projects that have been completed proposed projects feedback received Lisa's here. She's the expert on projects that have been completed This is our time for discussion on what we might want to see One question I have going into this is what is the relationship between what you put together And the town comprehensive plan are the two pretty much Consistent or is there inconsistencies or I think they're pretty consistent because we work pretty close to planning and zoning They've been involved with all the stuff that went on with the CERC alternatives projects They've been involved with those studies that were done and conducted So I believe it's pretty consistent. I think they have Some trails and off-road stuff that they also include in their comprehensive plan that we are not including in this We separate those two completely out What we did Melinda our senior planner put together the application on arc gis and bruce who are public director of public works Looked at the map with her to make sure it was most up to date But make sure everything was aligned with reality it is today We mentioned you know some of the projects through the CERC alternatives work I guess the question I'm asking is And I'm going to give the the best example I can give Is they always talk about at a university if you were to decide where to put sidewalks at a university The best thing you would do is build the university with no sidewalks Watch where people go the path I get worn in and put sidewalks there So I guess my question is along the lines of in an ideal world Where would williston have its bike paths and then where does this how does this mimic That ideal bike path sidewalk Layout for willis then I realize that's not a question you can answer You know yes, no, you know it does a hundred percent type thing But I just I'm trying to get that that's hard for me to evaluate to judge And so I'm looking for guidance about how does this What what's being proposed mimic What is ideal for willis then does that make sense first of all? Yeah I don't think we're really proposing any new locations of sidewalk or paths in this Okay, this is just completing what's already been started in terms of planning or exactly and knowing What's what's on the agenda to be constructed or to be further in design? But we don't have any areas technically and I as you know, I've been here for 10 years I've been doing sidewalks and paths for the last 10 years And I'm usually the first person they call when somebody says hey, I want a path there Can we connect these two sections? So I hear a lot from the community in regards to what sections are missing and what sections aren't And we haven't had any requests the last big request we've had is the connecting Blair park loop Which we're working on we're in the design process of that We're hoping to go to construction. I believe 2021 for that project So that was the last major one that I've heard about over and over and over again for people coming forward and saying I know there's been a concern about hurricane lane coming down into Put down by Marshall and you can see where the footpath is for the people that are coming down there But that's also going to be part of the state when they put their Rest area and on the other side of the interstate that's going to be constructed too So that's in the works as well. So there's nothing really new that we're proposing To design study or move forward with We're trying to see if there's any information that anybody else has Brought to your attention that we need to look at In terms of maintenance of the paths, you know the path that goes to From old stage road to the school, you know There's a border to um old stages states. Is that what it is? That has a fence Right where the um the crosswalk is on old stage road Sure, and it continues on goes towards the school towards the other where the path is. Yep There's a fence that borders old stage of states. Is that a town fence? Or is that old stage of states because it's kind of falling down? That belongs to the old stage of states Whenever we try to work with the homeowners associations for these types of paths if they request landscaping Um, we were we're more than willing to put that within our easement or a right-of-way area But if they request an actual structural fence We say you have to put that on your property and we'll pay for it to be installed, but you maintain it It's getting pretty it's There was a piece that fell down And it was that one piece was put back up, but it's kind of you know, so it'd be up to the associations Okay I will say with this outreach mechanism Some of the comments that we heard were for these proposed pieces that have been out there for Cirque Alternatives or these these gaps that people are looking for that connection to go from point A to point B They say it would be great if this path continued here so I could have this connection I run on Mountain View Road all the time and for my children to walk over here to have that connection So the reiterated what was proposed with some of these major Cirque alternatives for that piece of community feedback along the lines with the the maintenance and Stuff like that. That's a big thing that I've been pushing with the state of Vermont They'll pay for us to install and construct and design all these paths and sidewalks But they've yet come up with a funding source to go in and maintain existing facilities Like as you know, if you walk through the village There's some areas that need to have some concrete slabs removed and report because either they're Uneven or they're shifting and cracking But we to find the funding for that the only way we can get it is in our budget because there are no funding sources State or federal for those and I've been trying to get the trans in the bike and pet people to look at that I mean, it's been going on for 10 years I've been providing funding for people to construct all these paths, but yet you don't provide maintenance 10 years now those things need maintenance regularly Probably look at that though if they're heaving and that's probably something we should Look at you know and talk about the vibrancy of the town if the sidewalks falling apart we should probably Let's also talk about liability. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean attorney in the bunch The point I was going to is I sort of get it from this state or v-transist perspective You know we help fund, you know the construction of it, but similar to the fence we were talking about at the homeowners association It's the town who you know needs to Do the maintenance and if you aren't willing to do the maintenance and maybe you ought not to Ask us to build it in the first place, you know type of thing. I mean, I kind of have to agree with you I mean at some point you have to stop looking at the state to be doing it. You have to take it on yourself Yeah, yeah, and we've we've public works has started putting that in our budget for maintenance of sidewalks Cheating County regional planning I think it was two years ago one around and did an inventory of the troubled areas and we have that information So we started putting that into our budget so we can go out and maintain them as we can But as you know infrastructure is always on the back shelf and Just time and money. That's really what it comes down to We do indeed What's the net so you the only thing planned is the Blair park That's the only thing currently Funded to be designed and constructed At this time where the the responses you heard from people Are in your the memo Yep, I did kind of a qualitative look at where I could find the find the clusters and yeah There's a link in the memo from and it's also still on the town website If more members want to go through and look at some of the individual comments that people chimed in on And like Eric said most of the comments that were made were sidewalks or areas that have already been investigated And there's been scoping studies or alternative presentations and in a preferred alternative Chosen by the select board But the most of that stuff is in the CERC alternatives And it's up to regional planning to allocate that funding for us to move forward with the next step It'd be good to keep a running tally of those right what those are and what the what the current situation is just so We can be reminded. Yeah, and I think that was kind of the purpose of this This memo that he eric drafted was to give you a feedback of okay. This is what we've done in the past This is what we've got ready to go and this is where we stand. This is what the community's concerns are So it's kind of an all-around Sounds like the two big ones were part of the CERC alternative Yeah, the section on to route to through the village to Taft's corners and then mountain view all the way down to industrially up. Those are the two big ones Big costly projects, so yes Anything else tonight on this ARC will move on to traffic calming policy, which Thank you, Lisa I think we're getting towards the end of the discussion on the traffic calming policy I meant to ask where can I I didn't Where is the traffic calming policy update? I didn't see it in my package There's a new packet that came in In with your whole packet of information I didn't come in the All the files that I got downloaded with the agenda right through the dropbox through the dropbox. I didn't find it right What we do is we I was Changed how we did this to prevent this and then obviously it didn't work if we missed it again, but Eric puts all the files For the agenda in one file folder that I just take all of them and move them in the dropbox So I'll have to check but right now my computer is not working properly. So I can't even check it right now I was pretty good with If that's the case then we may need to postpone this discussion There's no does anybody mind if we postpone it or no We can put this off to another meeting and so We'll go on to the manager's report So just a couple things On the financial report I was going to pull up in front of me and like Would you like it of anyway, um my recollection was that I'll give you one Thank you for the um So far this year expenditure side anyway, we're generally in good shape The we continue to run behind or I guess that's the way to describe it under expenses For both fire and and uh the police, but I will say that both are very close to having Staff particularly the police. That's a good thing Yeah, we've got one person that they're doing final checks on and once that person is on board then we will be fully staffed That doesn't mean we have all the staff people on the street. However, because there are various levels of training They all have to get we have one in the academy now We have one scheduled to go in the academy the full-time academy um in January And then we have a third candidate who Is already a trained police officer, but in another state And that um individual will have to go through some training, but What a difference a different police police chief makes And can I can I ask I don't know if I can ask this, but I'll ask in the new way can How is morale do we have any reading of morale? Just uh anecdotal Every time I see officer I just will chat and see how things are going and things are going quite well as far as I can hear I had the impression it wasn't there were problems and But I wasn't under the impression that we because of contractual issues that we could Inquire about them We had some interchange carry about well if um And there are particular things in the collective bargaining agreement that dictates how Grievances are held are conducted and complaints and things like that which Really shouldn't come to us and that there there may be A time when and I'm not sure what the contract says on this, but I don't believe that we get involved until Uh something drastic happens. Okay, I can't say we have no grievances For what that's worth But anyway, uh the Oh, um Oh one thing of note two on the revenue side is that interest revenue Is running much higher than being anticipated because the interest rates are higher. I do I recall Years ago when interest rates were high and they were gradually coming down every year. We'd over budget revenue Um Because we'd say we're going to get this much and then the rates went down and we didn't get that much now It seems to be the reverse. We're under budgeting and I don't think I have any other comments on the financial report in the settlement wants to Ask a question If not, I'll move on to the quarterly report, which you just received tonight I want to explain that one of the reasons why you get it leaked like this I don't get all the information. We don't get all information that it gets included in the quarterly report until just Right about now. And so it's always a struggle to get to you in time for this meeting But that being said, you know, if you have any questions that come up after this meeting When you're reviewing it, let me know by email on our phone Or you can bring it up at the next record meeting and I'll be happy to try to address it So, um The next comment Just a note is that including your packet is a report that I compared recent conference I attended in Baltimore, Maryland It was an interesting conference and uh Being a whole lot of Information little bits and pieces that I'll be sharing with the board and staff is I move forward Where was that report? It's Part of just a separate memo separate memo that was part of the manager's report Looks like Oh, I got it. Okay Um, so yeah, it was a conference that um, I was on the highest attended that we've had years It's an international conference. So there were a number of uh countries represented and So that that's enriching in and of itself um, I will also will say that um, I was uh, honored to receive a special recognition for 40 years of service in the in the business and that's local government business Also had some experience before That was exciting to be recognized in front of my peers Oh, let's see the final point is just a reminder. We have a select board retreat coming up a week from tonight The meeting will start at Five Dinner will be provided. I think we already have all your dinner Yeah We have a facilitator will be helping out the first part of the meeting We'll each department head will be giving a very short like five minute summary of the key trends and issues they find What I'm hoping to do is get all that to you in writing though before One or tuesday night. So hopefully maybe by this friday We'll be able to so you'll least see that and then you the board of each department head can briefly present that and discuss it And then there'll be opportunity for questions And then after that we'll take a short break for dinner a little bit of Um, socializing and then 6 30 we're back into it and that's when the facilitator really takes over Helps the board walk through the visual process of setting goals and objectives So Is there any other business that we need to talk about tonight hearing none then we're adjourned