 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon Live 2020. Brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. Everyone welcome back to DockerCon 2020, hashtag Docker 20. This is theCUBE and Docker's coverage of DockerCon 20. I'm John Furrier in the Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew. We've got a great interview segment here and big news around developer workflow code to cloud. We've got Amanda Silver, corporate vice president, product for developer tools at Microsoft and Scott Johnson, the CEO of Docker. Scott, you had a great keynote. Talking about this relationship, news has hit about the extension of the Microsoft partnership. So congratulations, Amanda. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for having me. Amanda, tell us a little bit about what your role is at Microsoft. You guys are well known in the developer community. You had a developer ecosystem when, even when I was in college going way back. Very modern now cloud is the key code to cloud. That's the theme. Tell us about your role at Microsoft. Yeah, so I basically run the product, product design and use a research team that works on our developer tools at Microsoft. And so that includes the Visual Studio product as well as Visual Studio code that's become pretty popular in the last few years. But it also includes things like the .NET runtime and the TypeScript programming language as well as all of our Azure tooling. So what's your thoughts on the relationship with Docker? I'll see the news extension of an existing relationship. Microsoft's got a lot of tools. You've got a lot of things you guys are doing bringing the cloud to every business. Tell us about your thoughts on this relationship with Docker. Yeah, well, we're very excited about the partnership for sure. You know, our goal is really to make sure that Azure is a fantastic place where all developers can kind of bring their code and they feel welcome. They feel natural. We really see a unique opportunity to make the experience really great for the Docker community by creating more integrated and seamless experience across Docker desktop, Windows and Visual Studio. And we really appreciate how Docker has kind of, you know, supported our Windows ecosystem to run in Docker as well. Scott, this relationship and extension with Microsoft is really, I think impressive and also notable because Microsoft's got so many tools out there and they've so successful with Azure. You guys have been so successful with your developer community but this also is reflective of the new Docker. Could you share your thoughts on how this partnership with Microsoft extending the way it is with the growth of the cloud is a reflection of the new Docker? Yeah, absolutely, John. It's a great question. One of the things that we've really been focused on since November is fully embracing the ecosystem and all the partnerships and all the possibilities of that ecosystem. And part of that is just reality that we're a smaller company now and we can't do it all, nor should we do it all. Part of it's the reality that developers love voice and no one's going to change their minds on choice. And third is just acknowledging that there's so much creativity and so much energy outside the four walls of Docker that we'd be filly not to take advantage of that and welcome it and embrace it and provide that as a phenomenal experience for our developers. So this is a great example of that. The sneak partnership we announced last week is a great example of that and you're going to see many more of partnerships like this going forward that are reflective of exactly this point. You've been a visionary on the product side of the interview before. Also deploying is more important than ever. That whole workflow simplifying it's not getting complex. People want choice, building code, managing code, deploying code. This has been a big focus of yours. Can you just share your thoughts on where Microsoft comes in because they got stuff too. You got stuff, it all works together. What's your thoughts? Right, so it needs to work together, right? Because developers want to focus on their app. They don't want to focus on duct taping and stringing together different siloed pools, right? And so you can see in the demo and you'll see in demonstrations later throughout the conference just the seamless experience that a developer gets in the doc command line, interoperating with Visual Studio Code with the doc command line and then deploying to Azure. And what's wonderful about the partnership is that both parties put real engineering effort and design effort into making it a great experience. So a lot of the complexities around configuration, around default settings, around security, user management, all of that is abstracted out and taken away from the developers so they can focus on applications and getting those applications deployed to the cloud as quickly as possible. Getting their app from code to cloud is the walkward or the call to action for this partnership. And we think we've really hit it out of the park with the integration that you saw. Great validation and a critical part of the workflow you guys have been part of. Amanda, we're living in a time we're doing these remote interviews. The COVID crisis has shown the productivity gains of working at home and working and sheltering in place but it also has highlighted the focus of developers mainly who have also worked at home. They kind of used to this. You see the rigs I saw at Microsoft Build, some amazing rigs from the studios of these guys streaming their code demos. This is a Cambrian explosion of new kinds of productivity. You get the world's getting more complex at scale. This is what cloud does. What shared thoughts on this? Cause the tooling is more tools than ever, right? So I still got to deploy code. It's got to be more agile. It's got to be faster. It's got to be at scale. This is what you guys believe in. What's your thinking on all these tooling and abstraction layers? And at the end of the day, developers still got to do their job. Yeah, well, absolutely. And now even more than ever, I mean, I think we've certainly seen over the past few months a more rapid acceleration of digital transformation than has really happened in the past few years. Paper processes are now becoming digital processes. All of a sudden, everybody needs to work and learn from home. And so there's just this rapid acceleration to kind of move everything to support our new remote first lifestyle. But even more so, we now have remote development teams actually working from home as well in a variety of different kinds of environments, whether they're using their own personal machine to connect to their infrastructure or they're using a work-issued machine. It's more important than ever that developers are productive, but they are productive as a team, right? Software is a team sport. We all need to be able to work together and to be able to collaborate. And one of the most important aspects of agility for developers is consistency. And what Docker really enables is with containerization is to make the infrastructure consistent and repeatable so that as developers are moving through the lifecycle from their local desktop and developing on their local desktop to a test environment and to staging and to production, it's really, it's infrastructure for developers as well as operations. And so it's that infrastructure that's completely customizable for what the developer's operating system of choice is, what their app stack is, all of those dependencies kind of running together. And so that's what really enables developers to be really agile and have a really, really fast iteration cycle, but also to have that consistency across all of their development team. And we now need to think about things like how are we actually going to bring on interns for the summer and make sure that they can actually set up their developer boxes in a consistent way that we can actually support them and things like Docker really help with that. As your container instances and visual studio cloud that you guys have has had great success, there's a mix and match formula here. And at the end of the day, developers want to ship the code. What's the message that you guys are sending here with this? Because I think productivity is one, simplification is the other, but as developers on the front lines and they're shipping in real time, this is a big part of the value proposition that you guys are bringing to the table. Yeah, I mean, the core message is that any developer and their code is welcome. And that we really want to support them and power them and increase their velocity and the impact that they can have. And so, you know, having things like the fact that the Docker CLI is natively integrated into the Azure experience is a really important aspect of making sure that developers are feeling welcome and feeling comfortable. And now that the Docker CLI tools that are part of Docker desktop have access to native commands that work well with Azure container instances, Azure container instances, if anybody's unfamiliar with that is the simplest and fastest way to kind of set up containers in Azure. And so we believe that developers have really been looking for a really simple way to kind of get containers on Azure. And now we have that really consistent experience across our services and our tools. And Visual Studio code and Visual Studio extensions make full use of Docker desktop and the Docker CLI so that they can get that combination of the productivity and the power that they're looking for. And in fact, we've integrated these as a design point since very early on in our partnership when we've been partnering with Docker for quite a while. Amanda, I want to ask you about the tool chain. We've heard about workflows, making it simpler. Bottom line from a developer standpoint, what's the bottom line for me? What does this mean to me, everyday developer out there? I mean, I really think it means, you know your productivity on your terms. And so, you know, Microsoft has been a developer company since the very, very beginning with, you know, Bill Gates and GWBasic. And it's actually similar for Docker, right? They really have a developer first point of view which certainly speaks to my heart. And so one of the things that we're really trying to do with Docker is to make sure that we can create a workflow that's super productive at every stage of the developer experience no matter which stack they're actually targeting. Whether there's targeting node or Python or .NET and C sharp or Java, we really want to make sure that we have a super simple experience that you can actually initiate all of these commands, create, you know, Docker container images and use the Docker compose files. And then, you know, just kind of do that consistently as you're deploying it all the way up into your infrastructure in Azure. And the other thing that we really want to make sure that even post deployment, you can actually inspect and diagnose these containers and images without having to leave the tool. So we also think about the process of writing the code, but also the process of kind of managing the code and remediating issues that might come up in production. And so, you know, we really want you to be able to look at containers up in the Azure, up that are deployed into Azure and make sure that they're running and healthy and that if something's wrong that you can actually open up a shell and be in an interactive mode and be able to look at the logs from those containers and even inspect one to see environment variables or other details. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, writing code, managing code and then you got to deploy, right? So what I've been loving about the past generation of agile is deployment has been faster to deploy often and all the time. Scott, this brings up the ease of use, but you want to actually leverage automation. This is the trend that you want to get into. You want to make it easy to write code, manage code, but during the deployment phase, that's a big innovation. That's the last point, making that better and stronger. What's your thoughts on simplifying that? But that was a big part of this partnership, John, that the Docker and Microsoft embarked on. And as you saw from the demo in the keynote, all within the Docker command line, the developers able to do in two simple commands, deploy an app, defining compose from their desktop to Azure. And there's a whole slew of automation and preconfigured smart defaults and our same defaults that have gone on behind the scenes. And that took a lot of hardcore engineering work on part of Docker and Microsoft together to simplify that and make that easy. And that goes exactly to your point. We just like the simpler you can make it, the more you can abstract away to kind of the underlying plumbing and infrastructure, the faster devs can get their application from code to cloud. Scott, you've been a product CEO. You've been a product person, CEO, but you have a product background. You've been involved with the relationship with Microsoft for a long time. What's the state of the market right now? I mean, obviously Microsoft has evolved. Look at just the performance, corporate performance. The shift to the cloud has been phenomenal. Now developers getting more empowered. There's more demand for the pressure to put on developers to do more and more creativity. So you've seen this evolve, this relationship. What does it mean? Yeah, it's honestly a wonderful question, John. And I want to thank Amanda and the entire Microsoft team for being longstanding partners with us on this journey. So it might not be known to everyone on today's event but Microsoft came to the very first DockerCon event way back in June, 2014. And I had the privilege of greeting them and welcoming them and they were full on ready to see what all the excitement about Docker was about and really embrace it. And you mentioned kind of openness and Microsoft's growth over time in that dimension. And we think Docker together with Microsoft have really shown what an open developer community can do. That started back in 2014 and then we embarked on an open source collaboration around the Docker command line of the Docker engine bringing that Docker engine from Linux and now moving it to Windows applications. And so all of a sudden the promise of write once and use the same primitives, the same formats, the same command lines as you can with Linux onto Windows applications. We brought that promise to the market and it's been an ongoing journey together with Microsoft of open standards base, developer facing, friendliness, ease of use, fast time to deploy. And this partnership that we announced yesterday and we highlighted at the keynote is just another example of that ongoing relationship. Laser like focused on developer productivity and helping teams build great apps. Why do you like Azure in the cloud for Docker? Can you share why? Well, it's as Amanda has been sharing like it's super focused on what are the needs of developers to help them continue to stay focused on their apps and not have their cognitive load burdened by other aspects of getting their apps to the cloud. And Azure does a phenomenal job of simplifying providing same defaults out of the box. And as we've been talking about, it's also very open to partner integrations like the one we've announced yesterday and highlighted that, you know, that make it just easy for development teams to choose their tools and build their apps and deploy them on to Azure as quickly as possible. So it's a phenomenal platform for developers and we're very excited and proud to partner with Microsoft on this. Amanda, on your side, I see Docker's got millions of developers. You guys got millions of developers even more. How do you see the developers in Microsoft side engaging with Docker desktop and Docker hub? What does it all fit? I mentioned earlier how I see Docker context really improving the way that individuals and teams work with their environments and making sure that they're consistent. But I think this really comes together as we work with Docker desktop and Docker hub. When developers sign into Docker hub from Docker desktop, everything kind of lights up. And so they can see all of the images in their repositories and they can also see the cloud environments that they're running them in. And so, you know, once you sign into the hub, you can see all the contexts that map to the logical environments that they have access to, like dev and QA and maybe staging. And another use case that's really important is that we can access the same integration environment. So I could have microservices that I've been working on, but I can also see microservices that my teammates and their logs from the services that they've been working on, which I think is really great and certainly helps with team productivity. I love that. The other thing too is that this also really helps with hybrid cloud deployments, right? Where you might have some on-premises hosted containers and you might have some that's hosted in a public cloud. And so you can see all of those things for your Docker hub. Well, I got to say, I love the code to cloud tagline. I think that's very relevant and catchy. And I think I guess to me, what I'm seeing and I'd love to get your thoughts Amanda on this as you oversee a key part of Microsoft's business that's important for developers, just the vibe and people are amped up right now. I know people are tense to anxiety with the COVID-19 crisis. But I think people are generally agreeing that this is going to be a massive inflection point for just more headroom needed for developers to accelerate their value on the front lines. What's your personal take on this? And you've seen these ways before, but now in this time, what are you most excited about? What are you optimistic about? What's your view on the opportunities? Can you share your thoughts because people are going to get back to work or they're working now remotely, but even when we go back to hybrid world, they're going to be jamming on projects. Yeah, for sure. But I mean, people are jamming on projects right now. And I think that in a lot of ways, developers are first responders in that they are, developers are always trying to support somebody else, right? We're trying to support somebody else's workflow. And so we have examples of people who are creating new remote systems to be able to schedule meetings in hospitals for the doctors who are actually the first responders taking care of patients. But at the end of the day, it's the developer who's actually creating that solution, right? And so we're being called to duty right now. And so we need to make sure that we're actually there to support the needs of our users and that we're basically cranking on code as fast as we can. And to be able to do that, we have to make sure that every developer is empowered and they can move quickly, but also that they can collaborate really quickly. And so I think that, you know, Docker Hub, Docker kind of helps you ensure that you have that consistency, but you also have that connection to the infrastructure that's hosted by your organization. I think you nailed that amazing insight. I think that's, you know, the current situation and the community matters because there's a lot of frontline work being done to your point, but then we got to rebuild and the modernization is happening as well, coming out of this. So there's going to be that. And there's a lot of camaraderie going on and massive community involvement I'm seeing more of, you know, the empathy, but also now there's going to be the building, the creation, the new creation. So Scott, this is going to call for more simplicity and to abstract away the complexities. This is the core issue. Well, that's exactly right. And it is time to build, right? And we're going to build our way out of this. And it is the community that's responding. And so in some sense, Microsoft and Docker are there to support that that community energy and give them the tools to go and identify and have an impact as quickly as possible. May I reference in the keynote, completely bottoms up organic adoption of Docker desktop and Docker hub in racing to provide solutions against the COVID-19 virus, right? It's a war against this pandemic that is heavily dependent on applications and data. And there's over 200 projects, community project on Docker hub today, where you've got tools and containers and data analysis all in service to the COVID-19 battle that's being fought. And then as you said, John, as we get through this the other side, there's entire industries that are completely rethinking their approach that were largely offline before that now see the imperative and the importance of going online. And that tectonic shift nearly overnight of offline to online behavior and commerce and social and go on down the list, that requires new application development. And I'm very pleased about this partnership is that together we're giving developers the tools to really take advantage of that opportunity and go and build our way out of it. Well, Scott, congratulations on a great extended partnership with Microsoft and the Docker brand. You know, I'm a big fan of from day one. I know you guys have pivoted on a new trajectory which is phenomenal, very community oriented, very open source, very open. So congratulations on that. Amanda, thanks for spending the time to come on. I'll give you the final word. Take a minute to talk about what's new at Microsoft with the folks that know Microsoft, know they have a developer mindset from day one, cloud is exploding, code to cloud. What's the update? What's the new narrative? What should people know about Microsoft with developer community? Can you share some data for the folks that aren't in the community or might want to join or the folks in the community who want to get an update? Yeah, it's a great, great kind of question. I mean, right now I think we are all really focused on making sure that we can empower developers throughout the world. And that includes both those who are building solutions for their organizations today. But also I think we're going to end up with a ton of new developers over this next period who are really entering the workforce and learning to create digital solutions. Overall, there's a massive developer shortage across the world. There's so much opportunity for developers to kind of address a lot of the needs that we're seeing out of organizations again across the world. And so I think it's just a really exciting time to be a developer. And my only hope is that basically we're building tools that actually enable them to solve problems. Awesome insight and thank you so much for your time. Code to cloud developers are cranking away that the first responders going to take care of business and then continue to build out the modern applications. And when you have a crisis like this, people cut right through the noise and get right to the tools that matter. So thanks for for share and the Microsoft Docker partnership and the things that you guys are working on together. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Okay, this is the cubes coverage. We are DockerCon 2020 digital is the cube virtual. I'm John Furrier bringing all the action more coverage. Stay with us for more DockerCon virtual after this short break.