 Thank you so much for being part of this conversation, this particular Thursday morning. As always, it is a pleasure being with you. If at all you're just joining us, you're just in time for the next conversation of the day. My name is Ram Agukandis, it is why in the morning first the vibes it is and we appreciate your presence, we appreciate you for wherever you're watching us from. Keep engaging with us on Facebook and on our website where we're live at www.kbc.co.ke 4 slash y254. So on Facebook we've posted a question there on our Facebook page and we've asked what do you do to maintain or to maintain your mental health. So many people have sent in their feedback and regards to that. I shall sample a few of your comments as we continue with this conversation but remember the hashtag is one in the morning at Ram Maguko and at Y254 channel. Participate with us. It's all about suicide prevention and mental health on this particular Thursday morning. Remember tomorrow because you may wonder why are we talking about suicide. Tomorrow is suicide prevention day and to help us in this conversation to understand more about this because awareness isn't quite common in regards to this particular area. When was the last time you had someone talk about suicide prevention and awareness, when? Well to help us in this conversation I'm joined by none other than Sakina Taki. She is a very interesting individual by the day. Thank you. I would like we have so much in common but she is a mental health first eater. She is also an author. Thank you. It's a pleasure being here. Thanks for finding time. How are you doing? Very well. It's been a pleasant morning. I want us to touch on this but even as you continue with me I have a copy of her book. You should grab a copy of this book, My Little Yellow Book. That's the title of the book. My Little Yellow Book. It is little. It is yellow. It lives up to the name. It has a lot. But before we touch on this I want you to tell us about your story because you do have a story and I was checking you out on social media and on the website that you have and it's quite interesting the content that I found there. So tell us a bit about your story how it all started because I'm aware for those who don't know that she once contemplated suicide. Yes I did. I did attempt suicide once upon a time. So this came about in about 2016. I was in my mid-twenties very hyped up and a lot of people go through this. I fell in love and it's a root cause and I fell in love and I got into a very toxic relationship and I married this individual and that's where all the issues started coming about. After marriage. Yes after marriage. Unfortunally what happened is due to everything that was taking place in the marriage I did seek separation and I was very glad that I did because it was a very emotionally abusive relationship and I'm very lucky I did not let it get physical. Yeah and this did not come from the man himself but you know from family around and um there was a day I think the the the day I decided that I need to take a step was the day I was held very violently by my arm and that's when the emotional abuse I'm like if I'm not going to stop then I will be a victim. And what most people do not quite get is it all starts from somewhere abuse and at the end of the day there is the foundation that starts emotionally. Yes very sure before it gets physical. Exactly and that's that's when you have to realize what the next step could be because what I always say is you are a victim the first time but after that you're just a volunteer but it's very hard to get out of that space. For most people you know the african setup they tell you that you know marriage is is is never easy it's not a bit of roses and there is no perfect man. Yes that's what they say yes and whoever you find yourself with stick with them what did you say Mika? You know it's very interesting you pose that question today because just today I'm going to have an IG live on relationships and that's what we're going to discuss what do you look for in a man before you you you know you want to settle down with him what age is the right age to settle down with a man because um what I could take emotionally is not the same thing what another woman would be able to take so we are all different and we all have a different amount of resilience. So for your case it was more of an emotional cycle of sadness and you know where you where you looked upon as being worthless you're told that um you're you're you can't do anything you can't do anything right and for me it was such a shocker because I've always been such a confident person I've always been good at whatever I do in terms of work or it you know at at home and all of a sudden you're made to feel like you're nothing even if you want to go to the bathroom you have to ask for permission and when I ponder upon it it got to that level and when I ponder upon that right now I laugh yeah I laugh but at that time it was very serious for me you couldn't go to the bathroom until you ask for permission and so I got out thank god of that setting and um I thought if I take a step back we would be able to work it out but it wasn't going as planned you know you plan I plan but you know he's the best planner and that's the time there was one night where I told myself you know what the best way to end all this pain and misery and shame because there's a lot of shame that comes upon when when you're in a broken relationship especially towards the woman is to end yourself but one thing I'd like to tell our viewers Ram is that nobody gets up and decides today I'm going to complete suicide yeah it's something that you will think about you will look at this world without you in it is it like a process it is something that you think of every now and again until one day you just snap and do it you know sometimes you'll be driving uh in your car and you're like today if I jump this traffic light and a car hits me will it be that bad and I'm telling you around Nairobi people are thinking like that you go into a family gathering or your friend's circle and you're quiet and you're like without me in this circle will it still be the same if yes then why am I here why am I alive and then you begin to those are the thoughts you begin to question your papa's in life exactly value whether you're valued or loved yes and then you'll you'll be surprised I also used to google um best ways to complete suicide and the the the reason I use the word complete again I'd like to emphasize is because the word commit you know we did commit suicide commit is a very negative word you commit a crime you commit murder you don't commit suicide suicide is not a crime it's a task so you complete it when it comes to mental health you have to be very sensitive if I had a family member who completed suicide and you keep telling me you know he committed he committed in my head I I start taking it as a crime so we use the term complete suicide not commit now for for your case it wasn't always as good as uh uh okay did you expect things to turn out that way in marriage obviously not because at the beginning you know it for every lady you know those those conversations are interesting going out the things are so nice it's all good but there is a point that a crack came appears yes on the wall you know um um they say that uh marriage is like a fruit uh you eat it and regret it and you don't eat it and you still regret it that's that's that's what they say but the thing is when you're married it's something very new because when you're dating you will go to your house back I will go back to my house because culturally in a lot of African cultures and in the Asian culture you can't live with your boyfriend you can't have a live in relationship yes which is honestly truth be told very important yeah right um so yeah I did not plan for things to pan out the way they did um and obviously when you're in your mid 20s you're very excited to get into such a relationship you're very naive it's all about love someone is planning for the for the wedding you know they are thinking of how how nice it will be how many cars they'll have how many people will attend the size of the cake the color of the the the pattern the design of the wedding dress and no one actually thinks about what happens after you know the problem in our society is we focus on the wedding and not the marriage exactly that's the problem so uh I emphasize and I'm actually looking to put together a program for couples whereby you have at least 10 sessions whereby you take the first five sessions before you get married sometimes you as people who are getting married have not discussed so many issues financially emotionally you're just being pushed around by probably your family members or your friends to do things in a certain manner or a certain way are you ready so those are the things we will focus and the next five sessions come after your honeymoon period so at least here you're focusing on the marriage and not just the wedding because the wedding is not important now back to suicide issues is it possible for somebody to detect is it possible for someone to be able to notice that I think this person is suicidal or is thinking about it and for your case did anyone even notice it so in my case I did have my best friend who was always there with me her name is Christina and I would say she was my my lifeline at that time and my sister who was here as well and although they did not know I would am suicidal because you have to realize people who who even think of committing suicide I'm not just people who are quiet and lonely these are people who are hyper who are out there and they always thought no she's strong enough so they did not know just the introverts yes yes even the extroverts so they did not notice but I will give people tips on how to know if your family friends colleagues are suffering suicidal thoughts yeah one they will start talking about death you automatically know here there's something there's something we have to look out for all right as I said suicide is always a planned attempt so you'll see they are either asking about some certain medication or some certain weapons whether it be a blade or some certain like strength of ropes trust me people really think about this because you have to know death is not something you want to go towards you want to finish your pain not yourself because at the end of the day you're you're not actually interested in humming yourself yes it's not like you have a problem with yourself you have a problem with the issue exactly yes and then what you'll find is so if you've noticed a person is is you know just withdrawn for the for the for two weeks or they're sad and then one fine day you just see them they're so chirpy they're happy you just know this one because you know it's since it's planned in their head they're thinking let this be the happiest day of my life and then I leave so when you see a change of mood all of a sudden like that you just know and this is a very very big question mark and then one thing I don't want to tell people we always assume that if we think somebody has an issue we will never ask them have you ever asked anyone a question are you having suicidal thoughts we always refrain actually that question sounds it sounds off in our way yes is it okay to ask such a question yes it's completely okay we always feel and I did too before I did my mental health first aid in course how do you ask somebody that question we think maybe if I ask him he will go and commit or he sorry he will go and complete but that's not the case they want you to know that they are hurting so please if you see somebody with these symptoms ask them have you ever had suicidal thoughts is there any self-harm that you do to yourself and trust me they will open up to you it's okay to ask such questions to people it is actually pulling them back from that bridge that they want to jump over or about these tendencies of you know putting themselves in closed doors people who who they used to be very proactive very social all of a sudden yes they are with the drone they are not available they're withdrawn is that also a sign yes that is a very big sign the change of mood or change of doing something that they that they do constantly and this is one of the things that I have realized if I if I will go to a certain setting maybe to play sports or to the mosque or anyway and I see that this this person who comes every single day then for the next two three days they are not there I immediately send a message how are you doing is everything okay reach out reach out and that is a problem we have as a society yes we don't reach out yes we are focused on our own issues that we forget on other people's issues yes and it's a very cultural thing especially when it it comes to a place like Kenya it's a very fast moving fast paced uh you know city that we live in as well nobody has time for the other person but we have to make time you just go to town here just walking yeah busy walking actually if you're walking slowly you're going to be pushed out you'll be pushed out of the way yeah um there is a Kenyan youth and a parent who could be watching you right here yes and they are wondering how do I handle my child my son or my daughter because we've seen statistics actually it was this year that we had a child at the age of if i'm not wrong nine years who committed suicide yes and it's it's it baffled me yeah that a child would think about it there is a child who committed suicide because of failing in their case and I say failing in quotes because it is it is objective subjective yeah but someone who is that young committing suicide you know you have to know in this day and age kids are so well equipped with information and information and knowledge is two different things today if um if as a child I would be given a task and all I could do is google it today if I type how to commit suicide one-on-one ways or whatever exactly and what child does not have access to such mediums so it is a very very sensitive topic uh or issue and as parents as friends sometimes you don't know where to start so this is this is the very beginning the mental health first data as a first data I do not provide counseling just the way a physical first data will wrap you up until you can reach the hospital and get a good uh you know reach proper medical facility I do the same I will sit I will approach the person I will listen to them I will give them uh information about the what they are going through then I will encourage them I encourage them to see a professional therapist I encourage them to have a strong support circle and also as they are going through uh counseling I hold their hand and teach them how self-care methods okay so this is the starting point if you don't know where to where to go and who to see and and you've interacted with with many people who have shared with you their cases how was it interacting with all these stories and get it to know how diverse things can people can be you know they they normally say be careful what what you wish for because you just might get it because now the problems are so many that you feel like wow I'm feeling overwhelmed one of the most interesting circles I had so I have these mental health circles I have healing circles mental health circles is where I call a bunch of 10 people from different walks of life every every uh two weeks and we discuss mental health issues the most interesting has been men and mental health men men and mental health and I and I would have expected women and this is the issue because men you know what I who suffering more than actually yes if you see um statistics state that men are three times more likely to have completed suicide compared to women although women attempted more but men completed there's a higher percent three times more of a man completing suicide um this is because as a man you will never let out your emotions yeah it's the same thing uh so in the men's circle one of the things that came up was as a child the first thing we're told is don't cry like a girl why do we say that to our children and and all these things circle around this perspective of what it means to be a man exactly what it means that real man but who set that rule of being a real man who said a real man has to um you know be so strong that they can't even express their emotion that is not what a real man is supposed to be like just be a real human being because we all have emotions we all go through situations and if you're not going to talk about it or let it out it's going to affect your family and your kids and by the way a lot of mental health issues are brought down genetically so if you are somebody who thinks you do not want to seek assistance just know that you're putting your future generation in jeopardy wow yeah so you've dealt with most cases for for most of these cases men in your in the weekly sessions yes so i had a weekly session of men uh so i normally have so i had the first one in in august and we've decided that because they're like this is the first time somebody has reached out to us to ask us what is your take what do you feel so please keep the space open okay okay one of the very interesting questions i asked them was you see as a woman i always believe that ah these my issues are always caused by by a man so i asked them what do you do when you suffer you know emotional stress and some of the things they highlighted were drug abuse going around with women getting violent so we're like some of the problems that are caused in our society sometimes are caused as a reaction of ourselves when have i ever sat down with a man who i am close to as a friend probably as my husband and asked what is your issue why are you feeling like that and that's what i encourage people to do now and uh so you you've managed to do all of these and it's quite interesting because you're you're strong you're strong picking yourself up yes you said you you went through that process of separation to the point of now writing a book yes you know how did it come to this level and most importantly you know you rebranding yourself and repackaging yourself i'm sure that there was a lot of changes that you had to undergo some metamorphosis yes so i would say one thing i think i've been very lucky because i was brought up by a group of strong women yes my dad passed away when i was five years old and then my mum and my grandma and my sisters they brought me up so i always saw women at the forefront of everything if there was a bulb that was to be fixed in the in the house it was mum who would do it your mum would fix the bulb yes my mum would fix the bulb and that's when i realized a woman can do anything and that's what i was always told this is nothing you cannot do so that was one thing that that taught me that no it's it's not necessary that i have to have a man in my life i can i can just stand for on my own and the second thing is i emphasize on a formal education you know the reason i was able to seek a better lifestyle is because of the formal education i have sometimes even to get through to a door you need a certain type of a certification so i agree especially when it comes to developing countries we're still very heavily based on formal education so thanks to that i actually got a contract in zanzibar and i didn't think much i was in such a terrible situation more than anything i felt embarrassed because as a woman you're like oh you couldn't even keep a marriage you think that that's how society perceives you more than anything that's how you perceive yourself so i packed my bags i went to zanzibar i had no i didn't know anyone there i did not have a place to stay and i crashed in my office space for three to four nights wow yes and that's how it started going there with with a bag pack going to look for a mattress and a fagyo so you can clean your office and i slept there for three to four nights then i started seeking accommodation and that journey was it just grew look at you now exactly and zanzibar has been a very big part of my healing wow yes so it was it was like some vacation in a way okay in a way it is it is it is just some time for you to leave the environment that you are uh uh uh uh surrounded by you know that that which affected you honestly for me at that time i couldn't even think why i was going there uh yes i was going there on on a contracted job but what what exactly did i expect after that because i was going not to come back so i just took it a day at a time now how is it right now because i don't know maybe you can tell us your story um do you do you meet with you know after separation do you have these conversations again um how do you relate or did you cut off uh because there is someone who is watching you outside here and they are wondering what do i do because they are in a toxic relationship and it's affecting them mentally they cut off do they separate do they completely just disappear um i would first suggest include the people close by to you sometimes we feel like it's embarrassing or we don't want to bother our parents or our siblings or you know our relatives but this is the right time because you need that support and you have to realize as family that's what therefore to help you out yeah so seek that advice and guidance you're bothering them yeah no you're not that's the whole point of having a family and a community so seek that support don't get don't get pinned down by saying it's okay it's a marriage it would work out no no your own values where do you see yourself five years from now if you're going to have a child in such a relationship would you like your child to see you in this position take ask yourself these uh very uh important questions have your support system seek advice from a counselor there is so much stigma attached to it today if you start coughing are you going to sit at home no you're going to rise in the hospital because you know it might be kovid yeah that's why yeah there's a time i almost missed there i i i held it in because you know of the environment so did you cut off communication um with with my family extended family members yes i did but the people who knew i was suffering my best friend my sisters they were there throughout so one of my support system was my niece so my sister who lives in canada just gave birth the day i flew to zanzibar and every single day after that we would like we would communicate she would talk to me not not about my situation but you see that's the support system that you need wow yeah wow and and one interesting thing is even though you may not know it you also have a support system everyone everybody has what you mean you have a support system let's talk about this book my little my little yellow book i have gone through it is it's it's quite an interesting uh piece of work what is it all about so my little yellow book is my battle with depression and most importantly my process of healing because i believe i don't want to talk so much about depression that we overlook how to how to be able to build your resilience yes right so this is what the book is about so as you read my journey it's also a journal where you will be able to project your own journey and the first point of realization that something is happening is when you let it out you either write it down ram you write as well you know that's a way of expressing yourself and then you realize yesterday i wrote about this today i'm writing about this this is a chain so there is a problem so start journaling journaling is one of the ways you're going to start healing there's a frame of gratitude there where i tell you that no matter what happens there will be always somebody there for you you are just not realizing it it could be your mum who when was the last time you called your mum and said thank you so much for doing what you did you know i i love what you said because there is always a symbol of hope exactly in everyone's life yes so uh giving gratitude will make you realize that no this person is always there for me so when you're feeling down when you're in your winter because the book is divided into seasons not chapters i'm seeing autumn winter summer spring exactly and it just tells you that however harsh your winter is your summer will be that sunny too you will come back to your winter it's not like winter is going to go away but you will just be stronger i love what you're saying and and let me read just a section here and i really said i would i have to um there's there's a part here actually what you're saying because it's a cycle cycle yes there is a part on this particular page and i want to just but that piece and uh she says life is you know it's it's it's a poem yes that's only one interesting thing i love it yeah it's a poetry and i love poetry poetic journal you're a great writer life and i will be the the the oreta let me say let me you can engage me out of 10 life in full circle never rests at one season always looking forward to adapt grow to be happy showers reasons with every shivering sorrow and every overcoming worry in every growing intention and every blooming moment life is a full circle never a constant line yes isn't that true it's a season exactly even how you feel every day is different today you're happy to ask me no it will come back and that's what i try to tell people who all uh i try and assist don't feel like if today you're depressed it will go away and it's going to go away for good you have to build your resilience so when it comes back it's not going to come back as harsh and you know what to do sometimes people ask themselves this question why me yes but if not you then who else it was a big also know that uh people who try and strive uh very high are also people who are affected so if you are being affected by that means there's something very good that's going to come out of it now there's there's some some interesting data that i i got here because according to statistics globally 700 and 3000 people get that number 700 and 3000 people take their own life every year actually in 2020 this is the year when the pandemic hit over 800,000 people completed suicide globally in kenya people who completed or attempted the uh stats show it's about 1408 in 2020 alone data from the wall back also put suicide mortality rates in kenya at 6.1 people in every 100,000 with men being the highest in the category yes so basically in 2020 every 40 seconds one person committed suicide completed suicide tell us about tomorrow suicide prevention day yes what should what should we be looking out for so all for one try and spread happiness if you know uh it's a Friday you'll be at work if your colleague is going through something people are losing their family members and friends every single day just try and send a message of love to somebody a message of peace and try and be there for them look out for that person who's been so quiet we've talked about how to um how to go through the symptoms of of uh you know identifying somebody who who is trying to complete suicide or attempt so look at that and try to assist them and if you don't know where to start kindly contact me i'm a mental health first aider we will take it from there how can we forget you so you can find me on instagram sakina underscore tacky i'm also on facebook sakina tacky uh you could leave me a message on whatsapp on plus 254 706 436347 let us start a journey say that number again plus 254 706 436347 so tomorrow is is is suicide prevention day let's spread the love yes let's ensure that you know we we we look out for one another yes you know there and it is interesting because you've given some of the self self help tips exactly as we wrap this conversation up and bring it to a close what would be your your last word to that person who is watching you from home that parent that young lady or young man who is watching you and is really really going through a moment in life i would like to tell them that number one it's okay not to be okay you're not the only one suffering whether it's thoughts of depression whether it's self harm there's so many people who are suffering the same thing there is help out there tomorrow can be way better just take the first step and one interesting thing is she already took the first step i did so she's not she's not preaching out and drinking wine not at all not at all yes second i thank you so much for for coming i really appreciate it thank you thank you it's a pleasure being with you and keep doing what you're doing thank you hope to have this conversation even more as we create awareness on on on such cases of suicide and mental health thank you thank you so much for that all right that was to the end of this conversation and yes i said that i'll do the sample of a few of your feedback but because of the interest of time i just want to say thank you for uh you know your comments on our facebook page i've seen so many comments there keep tweeting keep texting the hashtag is all in the morning at ramagukha and at white to for channel what do you do to maintain your mental health some are talking about swimming some are talking about reading some are talking about music and singing you do you but at the end of the day maintain that smile may god bless you and may god bless your hands that means us to the end of this conversation today thank you for being part of this show see you again later on remember we still have a lot in store for you right here on why in the morning for now it's goodbye and thank you so much my name is ramagukha keep it while in the morning