 to introduce our speaker today. Hugo Samianto is an assistant professor at Columbia GSAP. His research critically examines the relationship between planning for climate change, natural disasters, and spatial inequalities, such as housing deficits, poor infrastructure, and racial segregation. Specifically, it considers how these inequalities contribute to the social production of risk and vulnerability. To that end, he relies on political economy and comparative research to investigate emerging climate change adaptation and post-disaster recovery strategies. Central to his research agenda is considering the social mobilization, grassroots resistance, and counter-planning efforts which shape these strategies. Hugo has a special interest in Latin American urban geographies, having completed projects in Brazil, Columbia, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Mexico. His most recent research has focused on the relocation and displacement of communities vulnerable to flooding in Colombian cities. Currently, he's also studying post-disaster recovery and community relocation efforts in Puerto Rican coastal communities. Before joining GSAP, Hugo was an assistant professor at the UIUC in the Department of Urban and Regional Planning, and he has received his PhD at the University of California, Los Angeles, in the Department of Urban Planning. Professor Samianto's talk today is entitled, Re-framing Climate Justice in San Diego de Cali, Afro-Columbian Resistance to Climate Relocation, which examines how San Diego de Cali's pro-yectal plan juggling a project to upgrade the city's flooding protection system, which includes Latin America's largest resettlement project. The study found the city's failure to account for the segregation of Black residents in high-risk areas has led to resistance, conflict, and delays in the completion of the project. The resistance and set of demands asserted by Black residents are transforming Colombia's climate policy and creating new forms and approaches to adaptation planning. So, Professor Samianto, whenever you're ready, I'll pass things over to you now. OK, great. Thank you so much for that introduction, Helena. I'm going to share my screen now, OK? Can everyone see my screen? Yes, OK, good. OK, so good afternoon, everyone. Again, my name is Hugo Samianto. I'm an assistant professor in urban planning here at GESAP, and the title of my talk is Reframing Climate Justice in Santiago de Cali, a study of Afro-Colombian resistance to climate relocations. Santiago de Cali is Colombia's third largest and fastest-growing city. And like many other cities in the global south, it's experimenting with climate adaptation strategies. What I want to emphasize today is that these cities do so in very highly contested social and cultural terrains. This concentration is often reflected in spatial conflicts, such as land disputes, exclusion from formal housing markets, and residential segregation in high-risk areas. Now, the growing research literature on climate adaptation also reveals that insofar as it advances existing development pathways, adaptation carries with it the potential for reproducing these conflicts in cities. However, in its attempt to build a broad conceptual framework that explains the urban nature of climate adaptation, it has yet to historicize and to connect more deeply with the particular social and cultural geographies which condition these interventions. Therefore, less is known about the role of historically excluded and oppressed communities, the role they can play in shaping climate adaptation in cities through acts of resistance and counterplan. This study examines such a community. It examines how Afro-Columbian communities in Cali are shaping the city's project Plan Harion, a large-scale infrastructure project to upgrade the city's levee and flood protection system. Now I will begin with the theory guiding this study. So socio-ecological systems theory, the dominant paradigm in the study of climate adaptation conceptualizes risk and hazards as external to social systems. Therefore, social elites can very comfortably mobilize the language of social ecological systems theory, resilience, adaptive capacity, without having to address the underlying asymmetries in political and economic power which determine how risk is produced and experienced by these communities. Political economy as an alternative locates risk inside social systems in the political, economic and historical processes that place individuals and groups at risk through spatial exclusion and restrictions on their mobility. Now the origins of climate risk in this perspective therefore lie just as much in the lack of access to credit and housing market as it does in extreme weather events. Importantly, a sustained focus on the political economy of climate risk moves us away from discussions of conservation, of resource management and resilience and opens new lines of inquiry which critically examine the social factors which interact with natural ecosystems to produce risk. Now political economy requires specific analytical approaches. The scholarship needs to stay attentive to histories of conflict, oppression and resistance. In the urban context, a good place to look is at the housing markets and housing policy can help us understand how social environmental relationships have been formed historically and why certain spatial patterns of risk such as racial segregation persist. This brings into view the social terrains of struggle in which adaptation experiments are taking place and most importantly how social actors who are largely absent from the policy debates over the climate crisis can draw on historical traditions and resistance to contest adaptation policy. With this analytical approach in mind, the study is guided by the following questions. What is the political and economic basis of Afro-Columbian resistance to Plain Hadrian's housing and relocation strategy? How has the Afro-Columbian resistance shaped these adaptation strategies? Now a quick note here, climate adaptation in Cali, again, Colombia's third largest and fastest grown city, is viewed as a strategic intervention with regional and national implications. The city occupies a pivotal node in transportation networks near one of Colombia's most important points of connection to global trade, the Buenaventura port on the Pacific coast, cities located approximately 50 miles from the coast and manufacturing and agricultural centers in the Calco Valley. So protecting Cali from climate disasters then is understood as a critical investment in Colombia's future economic development. And for this reason, the city partnered with hydrological engineering experts from Holland, Royal Haskin, and to perform flood simulations that factored in climate model projections. And you can see that simulation here in the map on the left. The risk assessment based on this simulation found that in a worst case scenario, nearly 1 million or more specifically, 900,000 residents out of 2 million could be affected by catastrophic flooding. 75% of residents could lose access to potable water for up to four months. As a consequence of incapacitated water treatment plants that are currently found in a floodplain. And the city could potentially incur damages of approximately four billion US dollars. Now, based on this assessment, the city found that it would require a huge investment in reinforcing the levy and flood protection system that protects residents from catastrophic flooding. So this economic imperative motivates the city to partner with national actors, such as Fondo Adaptación. Fondo Adaptación is a national entity that was created in the aftermath of a series of catastrophic winter storms in 2011. And I will say more about Fondo Adaptación, but for now, the important thing is that Fondo Adaptación and Cali have created a partnership to invest in protective infrastructure and the city's technical capacity for disaster risk management. And the project I'm highlighting today is called Project Juan Jarellon. Again, this involves the reinforcement of about 26 kilometers of the city's flood protection system. Most importantly here is that it requires a relocation of 8,700 households to complete the reinforcement. Now, this relocation project represents the largest of its type in Latin America. The city presents these relocations as an opportunity, as an economic opportunity and as a social opportunity to reverse segregation. However, the project has generated contentious debate and at times violent conflict over the relocation of residents at project sites. Now, unlike Bogotá and Medellín, the other, the two other principal cities in Colombia, Bogotá being the capital, and Medellín being one of the most well-known cities in Latin America for its pioneering and innovative urban experiments. Unlike these cities, Cali lacks a resettlement policy for disaster risk management and still lacks the institutional mechanisms and financial tools required for relocations. And so it partnered with Plan Jarellon, which is a fund-optations project in Cali to create new housing and compensation strategies for the relocation of residents. Through this partnership, Cali has improvised a combination of buyouts, subsidies and housing vouchers and rental assistance to address the severe housing deficit that's experienced by residents at project sites. Early in the project, Plan Jarellon exhausted the supply of social housing in Cali. This necessitated a turn to market-based strategies for the relocation process. And this shift in strategy generated a great deal of uncertainty for residents as it pushed them into the open market, which historically has excluded them through a process of racial stigmatization and segregation. So initially Plan Jarellon was able to resettle families in existing social housing projects, most of which were built by national housing programs, so they pre-existed this intervention. But when these projects reached capacity, the city had to offer temporary rental assistance while it worked to fast-track the construction of new social housing projects. But the city has struggled to build new housing, so residents find themselves renting for prolonged, undefined periods. Eventually, the city created a new mode of compensation a new mode of relocation, housing vouchers, which residents can use to find their own permanent housing solution in the open market. Now this approach is complicated by high levels of informality at project sites. And therefore it has been uneven and consistent, creating uncertainty for residents and ultimately delays for the project. So located in the city's eastern periphery, this area has been largely beyond the reach of colleagues' urban planning. The residents here have been historically excluded from the formal housing market, and they've bridged this deficit through informal housing that you see here. Housing is a poor quality in poor infrastructure. What's important to note in these images is that this development pattern has produced a complex environment of mixed urban and rural uses and diverse land tenure arrangements. The, for example, new service conducted by Plano Hadidion found residents living in multi-story homes, located next to single family homes with large lots dedicated to a combination of agricultural uses and small-scale manufacturing and even recycling plants. And in some cases, neighborhood straddle publicly and privately owned land. This complex environment presents a very difficult challenge for Plano Hadidion and its use of these relocation subsidies, which are premised on property ownership and establishing clear property rights. And finally, the residents in these communities are heavily stigmatized. They've been branded as criminals, as engaged in illegal activity and a very common term across Colombia and Latin America as a land invasion, as invaders in the city. Still, I would argue Plano Hadidion's most pronounced challenge has been negotiating the racial exclusion and segregation of Cali's Black residents. The segregation of Black residents has been largely invisible in formal city plans. Identified in the census as Afro-Columbians, Black residents in Cali officially make up about 30% of the city's 2.5 million residents. These are residents who've migrated to the city from Colombia-specific coast region, which is colloquially known as El Pacífico. Since the 1990s, the city has followed a pattern, a rapid urbanization, which Black residents have been excluded by the housing market and segregated in the informal settlements, which concentrate in the flood plains of the Eastern urban periphery. Now, the expansion of these settlements in these areas is driven by the new residents who migrated from the Pacific coast as a result of being internally displaced by political and economic violence in the region. So when you look at these maps, the analysis of Black residential patterns reveals that they generally match the spatial distribution of risk in the city. That is, Black residents are overrepresented in areas of the city with the highest risk of not only chronic flooding, but also landslides. Now, this disproportionate exposure to risks experienced by Black residents in Cali is exacerbated by the informality which characterizes development in these areas. Now, the city measures the distribution of social vulnerability factors that are closely associated with informal development, such as inadequate housing conditions, a lack of basic services, and sanitation and low-income status, which you can see mapped out in the third map here on the slide. Okay, so I wanna go back here to Fondo Aptación, the national entity that the city has partnered with to execute this project. Fondo Aptación is very much a part of what critical scholars call the resilience industrial complex. Now, the resilience industrial complex is reflected in the emergence of adaptation and resilience as a hegemonic development discourse circulated by national and international development agencies, including banks, which finance development and local actors such as municipal governments. It's important here is that the complex circulates models of urban resilience, driven by investment imperatives and notions of best practices in international development. And through this process of mobilizing and imposing uniform models that are typically designed in cities like New York City and Washington, D.C., through this process, what the complex is doing is erasing local histories, erasing local cultures through a process of homogenizing. You can see here, for example, in the image, Fondo Aptación's their flagship project called Grama Lote, which was the reconstruction of an entire town in a mountainous region of Colombia. You see here the design represents a very uniform model that's alien to Colombia. It's also important to note that Fondo Aptación recently partnered with the World Bank to finance this type of resilient infrastructure and housing across Colombia. So Fondo Aptación funds the construction of public housing projects such as this one that's part of Plan Haririón and very comfortably uses the language of resilience in its discourse. So for example here, this project is presented as adapted housing. What they don't show and what it obscures is the conflict and violence embedded in these projects. The acts of displacement and dispossession required to build these towers and a rupturing of traditional forms of housing in these areas of the city. That's because the discourse of climate adaptation and resilience fits well within the dominant paradigms of international development, which promote older, more established discourses such as community engagement and inclusion. Fondo Aptación imports all of the latest techniques of inclusive development. So here we see a capacity building workshop in Cali. And this development form has become proficient at creating and using techniques which ostensibly engage communities but do not necessarily alter political asymmetries. So inclusion can be defined in terms of capacity building and immobilizing of existing social and cultural capital in communities. It may even include borrowing of culture to innovate new forms of adaptation. However, none of this involves changing the asymmetries which mediate social environmental relationships as expressed in these development techniques. It simply enables them in a more efficient form. The critical scholars like Harry Bukele argue these experiments can be viewed as political performances in which urban regimes deploy a set of discourses to normalize and stabilize new forms of hegemony. Now through this process, Fondo Aptación has found a willing partner in Cali's leaders. Now during the study period, community resistance to the project was met with forced evictions and at times violent police incursions. City leaders despite being legally obligated to offer housing alternatives to residents justified these forced evictions on the basis that residents in these informal settlements constituted a risk to the rest of the city. They reasoned these informal settlements contribute to the deterioration of the levy system and stand in the way of the city's attempt to perform upgrades. Therefore the forced evictions were necessary to protect the city from the risk of flooding. So rhetorically what they're doing is that they are shifting the blame and the creation of risk to the residents of the Harriam. However, black residents have resisted the city's relocation efforts by re-centering public debate on demands for racial and cultural recognition. They have in effect introduced a history of racial oppression in Colombia into the climate change discussion. Now they've done this by counter-planning and asserting alternative culture-based forms of territorial planning through the creation of community councils known as Consejos Comunitarios Ancestrales. These community councils served as the organizational basis for the social mobilization and coordination between the communities impacted by Plan Harriam. It's important to note that Consejos Comunitarios are a legal artifact of the Colombian constitution. They are recognized as a political entity based on an ethnic minority's right to make territorial claims. This includes asserting political autonomy and territorial sovereignty over lands that they have inhabited historically. That is the disconstitutional right is meant to protect ethnic minorities. Their cultural practices, governance and legal structures and traditional place-based economic practices such as fishing, sand mining and agriculture. However, most legally recognized community councils in Colombia are rural and indigenous. So for black communities threatened by Plan Harriam in the urban context, gaining legal recognition as a community council has often involved boundary disputes with the city. This is because they live in an informal settlement where legal boundaries are unclear. So communities might claim a historical tie to their territory along with cultural traditions and custom specific to Afro-Colombians from the Pacific region. But the city counters that these lands exist within municipal boundaries and therefore belong to the public at large. For the city recovery of these lands through forced evictions constitutes a restitution of public property. Now a key to a community resistance strategy has been the creation of counter narratives which emphasize a cultural practice of living near bodies of water. They claim a proficiency in alternative forms of managing risk of flooding and frame their presence as environmental stewards. These narratives are embedded in the Pacific region's unique Afro-Columbian culture. So these new residents have fundamentally shaped the city's social and cultural terrain forming in Cali, what is colloquially known as the Pacifico Urbano or the urban Pacific. An integral part of this culture is a tradition of living in close proximity to coastal and riverine environments. The community councils have created new discursive symbols that emphasize this territorial identity. So for example, here you see a mural in La Playa Renaciente in Cali. It's a very emblematic cultural symbol meant to preserve the community's collective memory and identity. They have also created cultural practices such as the Guardia Simarronas which in English is Simarron guards. These guards are the community councils principle organizing instrument. They have consisted of approximately 2025 residents who organized themselves to resist the city's intrusions into a community's territory. In practice, they have functioned more as symbols of resistance and the primary vehicle for showing solidarity between communities. So when one community is threatened by evictions community guards from across the level mobilize to resist. The leader from a community called Brisas explained the community guards were modeled after those created by indigenous communities in the Calca Valley. She explained, we studied the history of the Black Simarons. The Black communities who did not want to be enslaved they would escape and form their own territories they called the Lenkes. White people could not go to the Lenkes because they were independent. That's where the idea of the Guard comes from. She explained that the staff you see the residents holding here is not to fight someone. It represents peace. What we are saying with this staff is you bring violent arms, but not us. This is our territory, let's establish a dialogue. I wanted to share a video with you all but this is not working. So I'll just talk about it. So the resistance has taken various forms. We've adopted social movement tactics, organizing mass public protests, but they were able to bring the public's attention to the violence they experienced during forced evictions. They have also engaged local electoral politics, foreign political parties and participating in elections. And while individual communities have had varying levels of success in resisting displacement, through their collective efforts, they were able to shift the debate from one centered on climate risk to one centered on cultural recognition, racial justice and access to decent housing. That's important to clarify that the objective of the resistance is not necessarily to stay in these communities, but more so to remove the stigma and to set the terms for discussion and planning of their relocation. So this resistance is shaping Colombian policy, Colombian climate adaptation, planning and practices. The resistance has won some of these communities legal recognition as sovereign Afro-Columbian communities. One of the most important outcomes of this recognition is that it makes possible legal claims on territory and the right to decent housing, in particular a process known as prior consultation in which the city is legally obligated to meet the community members and collaboratively create a plan for their collective relocation to a location of their choosing. So where you before had individual subsidies and housing vouchers, now the city and the Fundación created a new instrument and a new pathway on the basis of collective subsidies and that is housing cooperatives, where the community working with the city partnered with private developers to identify a location for their resettlement. Another result of the resistance has been to create new points of entry. Here, the city created something called the gardens of the levy. This can be understood as a new structure for governance and it also represents the city's adaptation and co-opting of the language that community residents have created. These gardens are meant to play an important role in educating residents of the importance in environmental stewardship. Now, so finally I wanna conclude with a couple of comments here that while these gains are important to be recognized, they also should be qualified by their tenuous nature. Plano Jardim is still not complete. Today it is still not clear yet where communities are gonna be relocated or resettled. Moreover, the gardens of the levy that just showed you mainly involve residents who live in the surrounding communities, not those in the levy. And it is not knowing exactly what role they will play once the project is fully complete. More generally, most importantly, the structural racism that explains the segregation is still very deeply embedded in the city's social spatial terrain. Segregation, discrimination, and informality continue to be a challenge. Black residents continue to be disproportionately represented in flood plains where they are at high risk of flooding disasters. Still this case provides evidence that moving beyond systems thinking and foregrounding the highly contested social and cultural terrains in which urban climate adaptation projects take place allows us to better understand how racial segregation and exclusion alters social environmental relationships. More importantly, it brings into view how social actors might shape urban adaptation through acts of resistance. And I will stop there. Great, that was a fantastic lecture. Thank you very much, professors Armianto for your talk. I would like to open up the session for questions now. Just as a reminder again to ask questions, participants on Zoom are encouraged to use the raise your hand feature. And I'll call on you to unmute and you pass your question directly. Or you may also type your question in the chat box and I can read them out. Yes, Bernadette, you can unmute and ask a question. Thank you so much, Professor Armianto for such an interesting talk. And I think it provokes us as planners and as experts or as people who operate across multiple systems and communities to think differently in so many ways or at least it did for me. I had kind of a big question and a small question. The big question is what is special about housing? I was feeling that you were saying it throughout, but what is different necessarily about housing? And how is it different in the through the lens of race in the Afro-Colombian communities? As opposed to other forms of infrastructure or services or things that are owned that need to adapt or that are threatened by climate change? And a small question is in the processes of consultation that were developed or that now have, that are now newly being instated. Are there intermediaries and who are they hired by? And who's talking in those processes and how? And just thank you again. It's really got me thinking in so many ways about everything. Elena, should I answer that question or are we taking questions? What is the process? Yeah, you can answer that question and then we'll just let the next person ask after you respond. Okay. So what is special about housing? That's a very good question. And I would argue that exclusion from the housing market is one of the main factors that contributes to risk in Latin America. And so the typical pattern of urban development in Latin America involves in a formerly planned core surrounded by rings of informal development. And that sort of spatial configuration very visibly and clearly represents the exclusion from the housing market. And so these informal settlements are constructed in areas of the city that are especially vulnerable to risks such as landslides, flooding. And you add to that the poor infrastructure or the lack of infrastructure and you have an especially physically vulnerable community. So housing is paramount. It's central to any adaptation strategy. The second point about race, race is an interesting question in Latin America because there is this kind of we might be inclined to kind of to impose our notions of racial segregation and racial identity in the United States in the Latin American context. That would be a mistake. There's a unique history behind racial formation and identity in Latin America. So you can't sort of simply take the racial segregation that defines American cities and superimpose that on the Latin American context. But nevertheless, race is a critical factor in explaining segregation and social spatial patterns in Latin American cities. In the case of Kali, this is very clear. And Kali still does not have formal policy or plans for these specific residents. And these are residents that experience discrimination in the housing market. So the strategy that I talked about giving them housing vouchers to go out into the open market to find their own housing alternatives is problematic because now they have to deal and negotiate with this discrimination and exclusion which is the very reason why they turn to informal sounds. So race is critical here. Now I've focused here on Afro-Columbian residents but this is a multi-cultural environment. The other big community here are indigenous residents in this valley. And they have also experienced exclusion and oppression. And so what you see here in these counter-planning and counter-narratives is really interesting because it's not simply black history or black resistance. It's an amalgamation of different cultures in the valley. So they are drawing from these indigenous communities and their practices and combining them with their experience in this urban context. So race is critical. Racial identity is important to our understanding of how this process is developing in Kali. Alejandro. Hi, Professor Salmanto. Nice to see you. Hey, Alejandro. Okay, so my question is more general than that. It's like, did you, do you have a look at issues of mobilities, how this is linked to issues of mobilities in general or have you thought about looking at them in the future and if you made that part of your research? Yeah, that's a good question. And mobility defined how, right? Because you can think of mobility in the kind of obvious narrow sense of, we're talking about transportation networks and access to various modes of transportation. Or you can think about residential mobility more broadly. And so I certainly have thought about residential mobility. And I think this is an interesting point because the kind of traditional mode of relocation in these projects is to offer a subsidy and then use that subsidy to finance the construction of social housing. Where that social housing is constructed, that is not, that's determined by the city, that's determined by land values, the distribution of land values across the city by the real estate industry, essentially. So they are being relocated, but none of that is alleviating the spatial, the restrictions that residents experience, the sense of powerlessness over their own mobility within the city. They're simply being taken from one place and placed in another, right? And so perhaps then that requires a rethinking of these subsidies. And you do have alternatives such as these housing vouchers which in a sense empower residents to find housing on their own and in a sense, contribute to residential mobility, but it doesn't remove the structural racism within the market. So it requires a kind of deep rethinking and reimagining of how these strategies might support residential mobility. But I don't know if that answers your question. I mean, I think that as you know, Colombia is still in the process of kind of expanding and building their transportation networks and a lot of these communities are beyond the reach of those networks. And so it is an important question. I would love to keep talking with you about this, but I'll let other people ask questions. Thank you. Thank you, one last good question. Yeah, right, I had a question. I was really interested in what you mentioned about some of these folks who are now at risk for climate displacement, also having been displaced from the Pacific coast due to political and economic violence. And I was wondering if you could speak more to how these multiple serial experiences of displacement might affect their experience of potential relocation and climate-related displacement in Pali and how residents are responding to it, how they're impacted by it, how those two experiences might build upon and relate to one another. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, the displacement from the Pacific coast and from these conflict prone regions is important. Colombia has the largest population of internally displaced peoples in Latin America and perhaps the world. It is still recovering from a 50-year-long civil conflict. In some cases that conflict continues today and certainly in certain regions of Colombia that's more active, one of them being the Pacific coast, which is one of the least sort of urbanized areas of Colombia. So it's an important factor there in terms of contributing to the displacement of residents into cities and urban centers. In fact, a lot of residents talk about this as they use the term double displacement. They've been displaced twice. Now, so that's one side of the story. The other side is that because it is understood within this context of this long-term civil conflict, there are also opportunities that are created here. That is that Colombia's constitution, for example, which was written in 1991, reflects some of the demands placed on Colombia by this conflict. So on paper, the constitution is very progressive and it includes progressive stipulations such as the one that I mentioned here, the legal recognition of ethnic minorities and the creation of sort of legal artifacts such as prior consultation of ethnic minority communities that are historically attached to certain territories. These are all artifacts of this decades-long conflict. It's representing the demands placed on Colombia by the conflict. And so in a sense, the conflict both contributes to displacement, but through these legal artifacts that's created opportunities for the construction of new pathways that are viable in the context of climate adaptation. I think we have Tsai Xia next. Hi, Professor Samyento. Thank you very much for your presentation. So you mentioned a very interesting thing about the user term like capacity building in this process. So I always found it very interesting for the to hear the government officials in the global south using such terms. And I wonder like when they learn this form. So you mentioned that like World Bank is also involved in this process. So I just wondering like how the climate change adaptation knowledge is produced in Colombia and why they choose to use such like global development password instead of local knowledge. Like who determines that? Yes, that's an important question. And it's a deep question, right? That implies a kind of critical engagement with international development more broadly, right? In this case, the Fondabtación, this national entity is a really interesting agency. Now Fondabtación translates to adaptation fund, right? And it's very much about climate change adaptation. So just a quick note about that fund. It was created in 2012 in the aftermath of the series of winter storms that destroyed a lot of infrastructure and housing across Colombia. It was meant to be a temporary agency that would help rebuild infrastructure. But in 2015, it partnered with the World Bank to explore new forms of adaptation, new forms of resilient development. And so since then, it's become a kind of, our articulator between it's kind of global international investment in Colombia and through partnerships with local municipalities, local projects like Plan Jardim, like the one I've talked about today. And as I mentioned before, it very much is at the center of what some scholars call the resilience industrial complex, right? It's this complex that has emerged to disseminate the language of adaptation on a global scale, the language of resilience, adaptive capacity. And this builds on older, more established discourses and development of inclusion and capacity building. So it really very much represents a merger between these kind of new discourses that are emerging around the climate crisis and older, more established forms of development. Thank you. We have a question from Rangini. Hi, Professor Cermando. Thank you so much for your presentation. So I had a question regarding, I think your previous comment on how the Colombian constitution recognizes ethnic minorities and also recognizes their territorial claims. I was just wondering whether you have noticed some maybe examples where the recognition of these territorial claims is actually being reproduced in a way in which the ethnic minorities are now having to place claims on risky landscapes. So there is a reproduction of risk through these kind of territorial claims and racialization. If I hope my question is coherent. Okay, so just to be clear, the question is, can you just restate the question? Is it about communities seeing this as an opportunity to gain certain legal recognitions and perhaps access to resources that they otherwise would not have? Is that the question? I think my question is whether, in recognizing the territorial claims of communities, is there a reproduction of risk in a sense? Because often like racialization works in, fixing territorial claims of communities, maybe when they're once they're dispossessed in new landscapes of risk. So have you noticed any such examples during your study? Yeah, so one thing that there's a lot of interesting questions there around this type of recognition and how the city and this national entity have responded. I mentioned at the end, this idea is this kind of strategy they've created around stewardship of the levy and flood protection system, which they call guardians of the levy. And this is really interesting because it's a, and essentially it's a, they're co-opting the language that emerged from residents and from the communities themselves to create these new forms of governance. Now, there's an opportunity there to either think of it as a point of entry, as a potential for residents to join the conversation and to center their demands or as a form of social control, as a form of simply creating new vehicles, new sort of techniques for control over these territories. So there is this kind of two dimensions to this and two potential pathways they can go with. So there is that. In terms of whether it's actually contributing to displacing residents into risk areas, yeah, that's a more difficult question because you're dealing with peri-urban areas of the city, peripheral areas of the city where kind of boundaries are unclear. And so you do have rural communities that have been absorbed by the expanding sort of urban process. And they might make claims on having certain legal rights, certain territorial rights on the basis of kind of a historical attachment to their land and land that is vulnerable to flooding. So that may happen as well. Thank you. Do we still have any more questions for the audience? Alejandro, do you have any follow-up questions from earlier? Question, comment, I mean, so the thing is that it's actually the way I work on mobility justice and it has elements of race and you look at elements of identity and how that creates questions, issues of mobility that go beyond the accessibility. And so I guess that if I have a question is because usually when they do this and if they create displacement, they put the people in these places and then they don't really give them ways of moving around and access, it creates issues of accessibility. So there are, and all of the, so there's like the land that is linked to the policies of mobility that is all wrapped up in those discourses of sustainability and resilience that Hugo is mentioning. So if I have any question, like it would be about that, like how do you untangle that mess and how do you make people, the policymakers, conscious of this and how do you like empower communities to help them go through these processes? It's a very broad question. Which I certainly don't have an answer for. But it's a good question. I see that we have a question in the chat from Bernadette. I have another question from how you introduced the talk. What would it take to make the global discourse of adaptation less hegemonic or should we care? I see that it's a, that's a big question and I take it as a rhetorical question. I don't think I have an answer for that either. But you know, I will say one, I do have a response to that question in a sense. I think one of the things that's important here is who narrates the climate crisis? Who defines the problem, right? So even before we enter a discussion of adaptation and resilience, what is the crisis? And I think that that is an important starting point, right? Today, the debate around the climate crisis, the policy debates at the conference of the parties, you know, most recently in Glasgow, most recently. And here in the US, you know, reflected in the most recent infrastructure bill. Who is part of those conversations? Who's defining what should be the priorities in terms of responding to this crisis? So I think that's the first place you start. And I think that then helps you address this bigger question of adaptation as a hegemonic discourse and it's kind of hegemonic nature. Thank you. Thank you, Professor. We also have a question from Matthew, Matthew Short in the chat. So the question asks, as you know, many people including Afro-Columbians in Cali, Colombia participated in protests against Columbia president and national government last year. It was seen by many to be a historic moment. Do you see that as a pivotal moment for Afro-Columbians in Cali? And do you know how the stakeholders that you mentioned view the upcoming elections in Colombia this year? Yeah, yeah, that's right. That was a very important event. I see others here on the call who might know more about it. I'm looking at Alejandro and others. But this was a historic moment. This was a historic moment in Colombia and in Cali in particular, Cali was one of the principal sites of conflict as it often tends to be. But one of the more interesting events that took place during these protests was the participation of indigenous communities from the surrounding rural areas. And there are sort of the kind of alliances that they built with residents of these informal settlements that tend to be where you have higher proportions of Afro-Columbian residents. So in terms of just bringing together these different sort of groups of people, that I think was an important moment. It helped establish certain alliances or strengthen them in a way that hasn't happened historically. So I think that was important in that sense. I don't know how they view the upcoming elections. I do know that one of the main candidates, one of the favored candidates, Gustavo Petro, is a former mayor of Bogota. And during his time as mayor of Bogota, his administration was very instrumental in placing climate adaptation on the development agenda. They invested tremendously in the idea of adaptation, and specifically in this relocation strategy in the city, in what they called a four-year plan called Bogota Omana. And so I think there's perhaps a question there about, is Bogota Omana and the emphasis on resilience and adaptation found in that plan, is that going to be nationalized? Is that going to be reflected in a national platform if Gustavo Petro wins? But I don't know how the residents of Cali view this, maybe others on the call do. Great, thank you. Do we have any more questions from the audience? If not, maybe we can take a wrap here. And on behalf of GSAP and the urban planning program in particular, I'd like to thank you again, Professor Sarmiento, for your inspirational presentation today. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your work with us. And thanks to also everyone who has attended. Our next Lips Talk will be next Tuesday at the same time by Professor Makal Kumar, whose talk will be on disassembling coal, finance capital, land and environmental justice in South India. Thank you, we'll see you again soon. Thank you. Thank you, Hugo. Hi, nice to see you all. Bye. Bye.