 Hello, and welcome to My Career in Data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp, and today we're talking to Ann Marie Smith from Alabama Yankee Systems. More and more companies are considering investing in data literacy education, but still have questions about its value, purpose, and how to get the ball rolling. Starting the newest monthly webinar series from DataVercity, Elevating Enterprise Data Literacy, where we discuss the landscape of data literacy and answer your burning questions. Learn more about this new series and register for free at DataVercity.net. Hello and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp, and I'm the Chief Digital Officer at DataVercity. And this is My Career in Data, a DataVercity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to talk with people who can make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education, go to DataVercity.net forward slash subscribe. Today, we're joined by Ann Marie Smith, the Principal Consultant at Alabama Yankee Systems. And normally, this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guest. But in this podcast, your bio is what we're here to talk about. Ann Marie, hello and welcome. Hello, Shannon. And thank you so much for asking me to be part of this great series. I have followed them practically from the beginning, and I'm thrilled to be here. I'm so excited for you to join us. We have been working a lot together recently. So I'm so excited to hear more about your, and I've known you for a while, right? So, but I've never really dug into your bio. And I can't wait. I can't, the things that I've learned already are very impressive. So I can't wait to learn more. And for our community to learn how cool you are. One of the cool kids, as Mark would say, you'd write, so, so let's dive in. So you're the Principal Consultant at Alabama Yankee Systems. So tell me what time of business is Alabama Yankee Systems? Well, Alabama Yankee Systems is a small consulting company that specializes on data management. We primarily work in data strategy, assessments across enterprise data management, data governance program development, and data quality program development, and implementation support, roadmaps, actually doing the job. I've been as data governance lead, data quality lead. And the other thing Alabama Yankee Systems does is, as the Director of Education, I'm responsible for developing programs and courses and offering that training, delivering it, developing programs, writing courses, helping organizations develop their data management education expertise. I love it. And, and that diversity here, we have certainly been leaning into that expertise for, you know, into our programs, which I'm so grateful for. So, yeah, wonderful experience and I'm expecting it to continue to be even more wonderful. I love education and I love data management. So this is marrying my two favorite things, two of my favorite things. So I love it. So, and I also see that you're a doctoral program faculty member at Capella University. So tell me a little bit about that. Okay, Capella is a major online graduate education institution. I'm sure a lot of people who are watching this podcast and listening to it will have heard of Capella. They have master's degree programs and they have programs with PhDs and doctors of business administration and doctors of information technology. I'm one of the faculty members for their PhD and doctor of business administration and DIT doctor of information technology programs. What do I do? Well, after the lucky student goes through their various courses to establish their capabilities at a doctoral level, you enter a period of phase called advanced doctoral practice, which is where you actually do your research, write your dissertation or capstone document, present the blasted thing and are finally awarded that puffy little cap. That's part of what I do. That is actually what I do for Capella. I help mentor, guide students in identifying their research fields, identifying the specific topic they're going to study, and then guiding them through that research and writing process. It's really cool. Oh, that is cool. And everybody that I work with is a business professional. It's not a full-time academic as a student. They're really involved in the businesses that they work for. So they have all these research passions based on their experiences. And the biggest challenge you'd think would be the writing. No, it's winnowing down all their research passions into something that's, this is not a word, studyable. Period where the dissertation or capstone should take place. Not a 17-year elongated study, but 18 months, 12 months study period. Oh, that's very cool. I bet you've learned some cool things just from hearing those different research. Oh, my goodness gracious. I don't want to say I've become an expert in any of these areas, but I've done programs with HR accounting, which I don't know very much about other than my schooling and doing the home business accounting. I've done a lot of work with the Doctor of Information Technology in technology areas that I have no background in because I'm not a technologist. And I've learned probably more than I've taught them. It's fascinating. I love it. That's fun. Yeah. So back to, you know, Alabama Yankee system, tell me a little bit more of what your work looks like there. Typical week, there is no typical week. But I have a pattern that I try to use with every week where I'm planning out the activities that a client needs for the week. Guess what? They change during the week, so there's planning many days too. But you might know about that. And then figuring out what I need to do to accomplish the client's goals for that week or day, going to meetings, either as an attendee or actually running the meetings and planning them where necessary, doing some professional development research, and working with each client to determine whether or not what I'm doing is what's needed. Do we need to shift focus? Is there more detail that we need to get? And then producing the artifacts that the client needs. My main client right now is an education training center of company, which is really cool. I'm thoroughly enjoying it because I get to, as I said, combine my love of education, training, and development with my data management background as a subject matter expert. And then I have two smaller clients where I'm doing data governance, data privacy, data quality work for, and occasional meetings for Capella, and occasional meetings for the two nonprofit organizations that I help support. So that's a typical one. So what are the new two nonprofits that you support? I'm only board of IDMA, the Insurance Data Management Association, and a local Foster County, New Jersey Development operation. Oh, very cool. Yes, so once you're involved in insurance and data management, which I have a background in, and one is something I don't know a lot about. I didn't. I know more than when I started. Oh, that's so I love that you're picking up something new and learning. Oh, yeah, I'm learning so much about local business development and what is important from the organizational perspective. And I'm helping them with their data practices, because they're a small organization and they collect all sorts of data. Shannon on paper. Oh, oh. What does organization mean? What does business mean? What does small business mean? What does medium business mean? All those term discussions that we have in data management are translated to this small development organization. Very cool. I can actually look like I know something. Oh, that is cool. And I love how you're putting yourself in these positions where you're learning and teaching all at the same time. Yes, it's been really cool. I'm really grateful for it. Oh, amazing. OK, so let's back up a bit to figure out how you got to where you are. OK, so tell me, Emery, was this the dream when you were very young? Say, like, when you were six years old, was this the dream? Like, I'm going to grow up and be a principal consultant and do all these cool things with all these different organizations. No. What was the dream? Actually, I was going to be a teacher. Oh, really? Yes, from the time I was about six years old, I wanted to be a teacher. Oh, wow. And I went to undergraduate school at LaSalle University in Philadelphia and studied secondary education, foreign languages, political science, and two computer courses and one, two courses in business because I decided I wanted an eclectic degree. And when I graduated with my bachelor's degree and teaching certificate, there weren't any jobs for teaching foreign languages in not just my little area, but anywhere. So I decided to look for a professional job where I could use the critical thinking analytics, analysis, communication skills, writing, and see what I could do with education. So I took a job at an insurance company in Philadelphia. And lo and behold, they really liked the background. I'm very surprised. It was really useful because they wanted a few. I wasn't the only one they hired with a varied liberal arts background. I told them I wanted to get a master's degree. And I had decided to get a master's degree in business because I knew very little about business. And now I was working in a business organization. They paid for me to go to business school. I earned an MBA in management information systems and an MBA in risk and insurance, which really made them very pleased because both. And well, the MIS degree, I was the only person in the company with one. So they made me in charge of their data administration team. I was the data administration team. The entire team, I got to hire people. I got to train people. I got to develop courses in what was called data administration back then, which was a combination of data governance, metadata management, data modeling, and data quality. And I had a group of people that had no background in any of that. And I had to teach them and teach myself at the same time. That job led to another job in another insurance company in data management, which led to another job. And eventually I decided it was time to study even further and decided I wanted a doctorate. Because it's something I did aspire to when I was not a little kid, but by the time I was in high school at some point, I thought someday I'd like to earn a doctorate. And eventually decided that consulting made sense considering data management, education, training, and subject matter expertise was better delivered in a consulting environment, rather than as an individual contributor at a specific company. So that's how I got here. Interesting. OK, so you haven't named what your doctorate is in. It's a PhD in management information systems. But I was able in designing the program because you know me, I'm not going to just take the regular standard course. I did a lot of research in enterprise data management, data governance, assessment, et cetera. So although the degree is in management information systems, the concentration is enterprise data management. I'm one of the few weird people who actually did that. And I did some postdoctoral research work on developing a data management assessment, high level, medium level, and detailed level. And then work in teaching, education, education for data management professionals. You know, there's some study in, you've mentioned before, some study in ethics. Yes. Where does that fit in? I worked for a company that really was interested in developing an ethical approach to data usage. And there wasn't really any activity around data ethics. Ethics at the time was all focused on process, on personal performance, et cetera, rather than an organizational approach to how we collect, use, disseminate, and identify, categorize data. And I thought about it and did some research into it and came up with a view of data ethics, about data integrity. Data integrity traditionally means about the quality of the data. Well, I look at it through the lens of the ethical quality of data. How the company is collecting data about individuals, and not just individuals, but their results, their transactional systems. Are they collecting the right data in the right way? Are they defining it properly? Are they using it properly? A little bit of data privacy in there for organizations as well as individuals? And how do they incorporate all this into their approach to operations and decision making? Some of this was based on what happened with Enron and some other organizations where companies said, oh, I would never behave like that. Well, you might not behave like that consciously, but unconsciously your organization may be set up to do exactly what Enron did. Having a code of data ethics can help an organization, especially if they promote the code. I actually worked with one company where we wrote a really good code of professional ethics and data ethics. And it went on a binder on a shelf. And I don't know whether anybody really ever used it, which really makes me sad. But if they use it, if they promote it, and if they incorporate it into their culture as a whole, we become a more ethical community. Indeed. Yeah. And I love that you got into that. And I love that there's a company out there that was asking about that, and we're seeing it a lot more come up, and the reason I wanted to bring it up, because we're seeing it a lot more, and it's becoming almost a mainstream word and topic because of where AI is going. Exactly. And that's one of the reasons why one of my small clients has asked me to do something around their data management practices, because they wanted to use generative AI to develop prompts for talking to customers, talking to suppliers, because they're discovering that a lot of the young people they're hiring don't have a background in what they do. That makes sense because they're right out of college and they have a background in being a student. And they don't know how the generative AI will use their data or they will use the data that they get from the AI systems that they're using, and they want it to be more informed on that. Very cool. Yeah, it's a good thing, right, and important that people are asking these questions. Yes, it is. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry-leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launchpad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DVTOX for 20% off your purchase. So going back a little bit to your transition from the corporate world to consulting. So now you are Alabama Yankee Systems, yeah? Yes. Yes. So how was that starting your own business and initiative? It was exciting, Sharon. I absolutely loved the journey. Like my PhD, I tell people that if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't mind because I loved the journey of getting a doctorate. People think I'm crazy. When I say I loved building the Alabama Yankee Systems whole process, the brand, the artifacts we use, the relationships we've built, if I had to do it all over again, I would cry because, oh, my goodness, I'd have to do it all over again. But I'd love doing it. It's exciting. I didn't name the company. I have to give the shout out to my husband, who was originally going to be the other half of Alabama Yankee Systems because we thought he was going to end up as the consultant and I would be the full-time employee someplace. My husband is an Army brat. And he comes from two parents who were from Philadelphia and he was born in Philadelphia, but they lived a decent part of his childhood in Alabama on an army post. And his father was part of what they would call the Union Army. I'm all Philadelphia. Born, raised, educated, never lived anyplace else. So combining the two of us, it was the Alabama part and the Yankee part. That's good. And we discovered that he was going to stay as the full-time employee and I would be the principal consultant. He helped me when I had issues around technology because, as you know, for the years of knowing me, I'm not a technologist. Never been a database administrator. Never been a programmer. The only times I ever did that sort of stuff was in school. And I was so grateful for the help I had. So my husband was the technical expert when I needed it. But the company was primarily behind. And I've had the services of a couple, a marketing person who was in graduate school, a person who was another graduate student who helped me with creating artifacts, et cetera, because I'm not the best design person on earth. I can write till I'm blue in the face, blue, but I'm not a designer. And I truly appreciate the help I got in developing this. But it's been an interesting journey. And most of my clients have come from reputation, word of mouth, presentations, articles, et cetera. And I've loved it. And I'm happy to help anybody in the journey because we don't do this alone. John Dunn, no man is an island. Well, it's really important to keep those connections and to help people on their journey, especially if they're taking a journey where you have some background and can support them. Indeed. So cool. OK, so tell me, what's been your biggest lesson so far then in your career? I thought about this. Never be afraid to ask questions, but two favorite questions are why and how, and never stop learning. What's my background? Education, data management? Never stop learning about anything. I mean, I like to learn how to make new recipes. I like to learn how to crochet new artifacts. I'm trying to teach myself how to crochet a sweater, which is not going well, but I'm not going to give up because I like learning. I have a background in crocheting things like blankets, hats, and scarves, and stuff. But this is my four of the doings shaped. I love learning. That's the two big things I've learned. Never stop learning. Never be afraid to learn and never be afraid to ask a question. Yeah, I have mentioned this before in the podcast. I wish I had learned that a lot earlier in my life, to not be afraid to ask a question, being raised, that you have to know everything, and not knowing something as a weakness, and you fake it until you make it right. But that's such the wrong approach. As a consultant, Shannon, I worried about that. Because as a corporate employee, I wasn't afraid to ask questions. As a consultant, would I be viewed badly because I didn't understand everything? And I discovered that people are thrilled when you ask a question. One, it shows they can help you, which makes people feel good. And two, if you're receptive to the learning you're getting by getting the answer to the question, you're feeling more empowered, which makes you feel better or makes you more comfortable asking the next question. It just sets you up for a success if you truly understand what it is you're trying to achieve. Absolutely. Yeah, it makes life so much easier. Yeah, it does. And I struggled with it, too. So I understand the feeling you have, I'm supposed to know everything. Right, right. Well, so tell me, so, Amri, you worked with data for most of your career, almost all of your career. So what is your definition of data? OK, Shannon, data are raw facts. I viewed data from the lens of data management. What are the policies that govern the data? What's the context, the definition? Where's it stored? How's it stored? What's the level of trust and quality we can apply to this data? Should I use it? Is it OK? Is it OK? Is it better than OK? Do I need it to be better than OK? How's it organized? I think of data that way. And I always append the word management whenever anybody says data. And I'm discovering that a lot of people don't think of data that way. And I have to learn that data has a broader view, not just the raw facts and not just the context, but what we do with it, the analytics, how we use it. Absolutely. So and I love that definition. So and, you know, and again, with your experience, do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years? And why? That's an excellent question, Shannon. The answer is, yes, I see it increasing. I see it increasing because of the explosion in analytics. People want to know what data they have. They want to know people and organizations. What data they've collected. Why they collected it, one of my favorite questions. How it's been collected, how it's stored. They want to know whether they can use it. And if so, for what? And can they trust it? All those things together mean that there will be more jobs for people in my view of data, data management, and in analytics, because organizations want to be able to analyze this vast volume of data that they've collected. They want to be able to put some meaning to the fact they just spent a gazillion dollars on more storage capability. So what are we storing? Why are we storing it for how long? And I see an even bigger explosion coming as people become more aware of how data feeds into AI and artificial intelligence and machine learning. Because even individuals, my next door neighbor, asked a question the other day because she knows my background. You ever use AI? I'm supposed to use it at work and I'm scared to death. Maybe it'll take over my job. So I talked to her about how AI collects data and how it learns from what you're doing, but how you can learn from what you see the AI results presented to improve your job performance and maybe see if there's another opportunity because of what you're learning. Yep. There's a lot of data to prepare and manage that feeds into AI to be successful. So then what advice would you give to people looking to get into a career in data management? Never be afraid to ask a question. Never be afraid to listen, even though I've talked almost nonstop in this podcast. I do like listening occasionally. Never be afraid to explore something. And by exploring research, dataversity.net, I know shameless plug for dataversity. You've been kind enough to host me, but it's not a shameless plug, it's real. The quality of information and content and training at dataversity can really help just about any professional who wants to learn more about data, who thinks they may have a career in data in some way, but they don't understand what that really means. Start there. Read articles, read blogs, watch webinars, watch people's webinars, I almost lost the word, with you on their career and data and see what resonates and how the career you're looking at or you have interacts with what you're seeing from this person who's talking about their career and data and how maybe you can learn even more. If you're a recent college graduate and you don't really know what you wanna do when you grow up, I wanna be five feet tall, by the way. I say, learn about data management because I think there will be, as I said a minute ago, and more explosion of jobs than we even can imagine in the next couple of years. Data is so fun, right? Oh, it is, it really is. There's so many different ways to interact with it, so many jobs and different approaches to it, and it's in every industry. So you can marry it with, not only finding how you love to work with data, but you can marry it with individual passions and apply data to a nonprofit and work for a nonprofit that you like, or a corporation of a product that you really love or you can marry multiple passions, right? Exactly, one of the things I did when I was a assistant professor at LaSalle, when I was earning my doctorate, was develop a course on nursing informatics, which is what we would call analytics now, chose you 100 years ago, that was. And all the nurses had to take this course in their master of science in nursing program from LaSalle. I had three students by the end of their MS degree come up and tell me that they were making a transition from an on the floor nurse to a nursing informatics specialist, because they fell in love with data management and the management of data in a hospital setting, the management of patient data, the management of outcomes data, et cetera. So I have these three nurses who are now informatics specialists who really consider themselves data management people. They're in data these days. Let me call. That is, yeah, that's following passion, right? Absolutely, they discovered a passion for wanting to know why these outcomes were the way they were, what patient situations drove the outcomes and whether we can use the outcomes to influence future patients. And they fell in love. Well, Anne-Marie, this has just been so lovely to get to know more about you. I wanna do one on you someday. I really do. I watched the one Tony did for you. Yeah. But I wanna do one now, that was a while ago. Well, we can talk more about that. I will say I do love being in the seat of nurses of being interviewed. Uh-huh. I understand, but running around would make it collegial. And if you ever decide you wanna do that, let me know, because I'd love to learn currently. Your perspective. I appreciate that. No, and it, but it gives me a true appreciation too for, and so grateful for your time and your willingness to share. So I really appreciate that. And I would be remiss if I didn't ask, if somebody wanted to connect with you and solicit your services, how would they find you? LinkedIn. Okay, yes. LinkedIn, Anne-Marie Smith. You see my face? I'm labeled Dr. Anne-Marie Smith because there are so many Anne-Marie Smiths on LinkedIn. I needed to do something to differentiate myself besides the red hair. And I'd be happy to connect with people who are interested in talking about data management, whether interested in the services or want some guidance. Happy to provide it. I love it. And we will get your LinkedIn post, or your URL to your LinkedIn posted on the podcast website as well. So people can find you. Thank you. Well, Anne-Marie, thank you so much for taking the time today. I am so grateful. Thank you, Shannon. I'm thrilled. I mean, I've watched these, as I said at the start, and I'm just honored to have been asked to be part of this. Have a wonderful rest of your day. And thank you. It's a pleasure. You too. Oh, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. And to all of our listeners out there, if you'd like to keep up to date in the latest podcast and in the latest in data management education, you may go to dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. Until next time, stay curious, everyone. Thank you for listening to Dataversity Talks, a podcast brought to you by Dataversity. Subscribe to our newsletter for podcast updates and information about our free educational webinars at dataversity.net forward slash subscribe.