 Here's probably the best general advice for long term fitness and health success. Fitness and health is not black or white. You live in the real world long term success is understanding that there's a lot of gray area. Balance is how you live in the real world but also stay fit and healthy and this is especially true when it comes to nutrition. Fifty shades of fitness. That's how you eat right. No I want to say this because one of the biggest I'd say challenges that you know I love you guys's feedback on this I'm sure you experienced this as well is that people they go on off right it's all on all off and they have a tough time finding the the balance between the two so it's like and I get where the argument I don't agree with this by the way but I understand the root of the argument there are no bad foods right there are no bad foods when people say that and I can see where they're coming from I think their messaging is wrong but it's that on off good bad and I'm only gonna do things this way I'm only gonna do things that way and if I do this that means I'm not doing anything for my health and I've been doing this then everything's for my health and that produces an unsustainable long-term relationship with health and fitness so we've created too many wagons and too many tribes for people to subscribe to and it's like if you're not on this then you're failing and it's it's a very effective way to push people into like momentum it's like I look at fitness a lot with it deals with a lot of momentum and insecurities and those are like the two like sort of north stars for any like company out there it's like we got to get we got to get these people by you know capturing their momentum and then pushing them by saying like all these things that they're terrible at yeah hype them up like you're doing awful with this and you need to jump on this method because it's gonna solve everything for you yeah it's very extreme yeah yeah yeah so like a good example one of the points that we've probably made on the show most consistently is the kind of the challenges with hyper palatable ultra processed food like we've said this many many times it's probably not probably I would argue this all day long the single biggest cause of the obesity epidemic I think it's multifaceted it's more complex than just one thing but if I would have if I had to pick one thing that had the biggest impact it was the prevalence of these ultra processed foods that we now have very very good studies to show that they just make you overeat they just make you overeat they overcome systems of satiety they throw things off to the point where you know you're gonna eat five or six hundred more calories a day if your diet is mostly comprised of these things and again if you look at how much these foods have permeated or penetrated our overall diets right around the 70s they really started kick in 80s they really started ramp up and it's just been an uphill trend since then and so that kind of matches this this obesity explosion and then if you look at countries like Mexico Mexico Mexico is a great study of this because they did not deal with obesity and then relatively recently all of a sudden became a big problem and it was the adoption of these ultra processed foods they went from a almost all-natural whole food diet to a diet where all of a sudden these foods started coming in so you hear us make this argument all the time and the reason why I'm bringing this up is because you may get the the idea that there's no value in ultra processed foods at all and that they're the demon they're the devil and if you gosh if you eat one boy did you just make a huge mistake and then what that could do is that could create this scenario where someone has ultra processed food they're like screw it I'm already off you know I'm just done I'm you know on and off again right so now I'm off and then forget it and then when I'm on I'm gonna be totally perfect ultra processed foods I mean they have value because of shelf life you know you could put a box of something on the shelf and it lasts a long time they're easy to travel with it's hard to travel with whole natural foods you know get on a plane and in going along flight with fruits and vegetables and meat and it'll work very well so they travel well but here's the other value their other value is there is some value in its ultra palatability that excitement and euphoria that you get from eating something or experiencing something there's some value in that there really is it can be fun and enjoyable you just have to be aware of its potential negatives but if you just avoid something completely to the point where you know if you if you have some now you feel like you've totally screwed up and you're gonna go totally off well now you're missing the entire point now that being said there are ways to do things in this great area that cause less damage or maybe even help contribute to your goals while you enjoy some of the benefits of that euphoria and enjoyability luckily the the health and food into the health fitness industry has created foods that are higher in protein that are also somewhat you know ultra palatable so if you're like hey I want to have something really tasty that I can keep in the you know in the closet of the pantry now I can reach for magic spoon cereal for example instead of fruit loose that's how I use that yeah I use it more like a dessert that's I I know it's designed to be like this you know on the go fast like breakfast for a lot of people which I think that they're that's okay too but I I have these that night there's many times were because this is because I've had this behavior of eating ice cream for so many years late at night that will resurface I didn't get a great night's sleep tonight before what that and then also know how that craving and then I have this I feel like I still get a little bit of that sweet reward it's enjoyable it's not obviously an ideal thing like chicken and rice like a perfect balance sitting down in front of the TV with the steak is not gonna hit the same yeah exactly so it feels like it feels like I'm getting a little bit of a tree and it is a little bit of a treat in its process but then I'm also you know it's it's manageable calorie wise even if I have a massive bowl of it it's it's still under 500 calories and you have 50 grams of protein yeah and I'm getting a bunch of protein and so and many times I'm still chasing my protein target so I think there's places for that are there are there things that you guys have are there like basic rules or are there things that you have come to like over the decades now of training and finding that balance because to be honest I really feel like it's only been in the last five five to eight years that I think I have really found a good balance of not having these massive on and off swings like I would say even just in the last year or two I've had moments in my training where I've been very inconsistent I haven't been really dialed in but in the past in times like that that's what also when I go off the rails with eating it's also when I would just be eating tons of ice cream eating junk food and then I would what I would happen in the past is I let myself get out of control for a little bit then I'd have this kind of come to Jesus moment where I go like okay I'm starting to put on too much body fat I'm not doing this and then I would and then I go hard the other way where you know I and I think if you've listened to the show long enough you probably heard me even expressing that you know there was times where I was saying I was really healthy I just wasn't aesthetically ripped but that's because as I was not training as much I was also balancing out the way I ate which I wasn't doing in the past yeah the difference is when you're when you when you do the whole on the wagon off the wagon thing like most people do your swings are so wide and dramatic so it's like this huge swings so for most people if they were to look at them they're like their body weight their fitness their health in a body fat percentage whatever over let's say a 10-year period on a graph it would be like this bing bing bing bing like like huge swings you know 15 20 pounds or you know maybe more it's actually more once you start to kind of figure this out and you develop this this relationship with these things like we're talking about you still have swings I don't want to say that you're gonna stay like this all the time right it's impossible right because life is not like that just less dramatic it's like this yeah your swings are so mild in comparison and you're aware of the values and the deep and things that are valuable and things are not valuable during that period of time so for me it's more like I am just really aware of why what I'm getting out of this particular you know this bag of chips or magic I know what I'm getting out of it I'm getting the taste really good it's a treat it's fun it's cool right now not the whole like oh crap what did I do I just screwed up my diet you know type of deal it's more like oh yeah no I know what I'm getting and what I'm maybe sacrificing and because I'm aware of that then I do I mean think about look here's another here's a good example most people when they go off a diet the first few meals when they're off the diet don't look anything like balance they look extreme yeah it's like oh I went off my diet oh yeah what did you eat a whole box of cookies yeah would you ever any of the moment would you eat a whole box of cookies well no but what happens like I just swing so so hard in the opposite direction so that's what ends up happening so like in the reason why I like products like magic spoon and some of these other products now that are in our space is is that not only they allow you to train yourself to move in that direction but you're also getting something that is hard to get with ultra processed foods which is protein which you know you're sacrificing a lot more typically with with most ultra processed foods because not only eating something they're like oh I like the taste but also I didn't hit my protein targets so now I'm there's like a double whammy but you know with like a bowl of magic spoon like oh I'm getting that taste oh and by the way I got 35 grams of like whey protein you know in that bowl or whatever yeah I think to the we'll just address like the magic spoon I think that it's a great place to meet people where they're at I think that like as coaches and as you know fitness people and like we're always trying to kind of influence people around us and our friends and family and whatnot and it's like you know instead of like putting so much emphasis on healthy options and like you know steering them you know closer towards making these whole food choices and all these things like we would love to see it's like you know let's start like let's add some protein in your diet and like you're already eating like you're having a bowl of cereal and you know like tricks and whatever you know like I know what I know what you're into you know and like just give it a try it's like it's sort of that that first kind of introduction and then you just hope that like it's because like the proteins levels are coming up it's like now you know maybe there's gonna be a behavioral shift as a result of this like they might start craving more protein in their diet you mitigate yeah there's gonna be like a snowball effect to that so I think that's one benefit to obviously for me it's like it's great to have in the house because of what we're talking about before is like you know there's there's times where where I was a little more extreme of like I've been so restrictive on myself and then I'll go grab you know some Reese's or I'll do something that's like oh you know I'm feeling like I got a sweet tooth right now and I want to I want to go a little hard with that but over the years like I've gotten a lot better with that in terms of like like my mentality completely shift from like I should be I should be doing this and and really being conscious of making sure like my body fat and like I'm not like getting too crazy and having these swings like I'm just really more seeking nutrients like I'm trying to seek things in my diet that I feel like are benefiting my health and in I like I start trying like actively to get foods that I know are fulfilling and nourishing to me versus like you know I shouldn't be eating this like I just I took a lot of the air out of it like a lot of the air out of like oh is it treat whatever I'll just take a bite it it doesn't it I don't even give a shit like it's like well I had a cookie like I don't understand why we talk about that who gives you shit they had a cookie you know like it like just keep keep at it you do this with work people do this with workouts too it's like oh if I can't go work out like max effort hard hit PRs I'm not gonna go to the gym it's a waste of time not true no that was one of the biggest hacks on the workouts for me and as I got older was giving myself the freedom to hey I could go to the gym and just squat for three sets and walk away and it's still be positive moving in the right direction and it's not a waste of time at all just because I didn't get a crazy sweat or maybe it doesn't like make me super sore the next day and I don't know how many times I mean shit that happened to me last night last night or yesterday I trained later in the day I hate training after five o'clock like it just I was tired from yesterday I didn't get a good night's rest yesterday was exhausting to you we were we were stuck in here for yeah yeah hours we ripped three episodes in here and inside just so it was so I was like but I also know that I'm getting ready to drive up to truckie then I have a flight to and back from Park City so in the next five to seven days there's a very it's very likely I'm gonna miss the gym anywhere between one and three days minimum in that next five to seven day span so even though I've been super consistent and I could have taken last night off I'm like no I need to just get in there and do some work and so I had to have this like self of like I'm just gonna go there I'm gonna do a couple things we'll rely just to touch and then end up having a great workout so I know how many times that has happened where you I say I'm gonna do do that and then it ends up being a great workout right today's program giveaway maps power lift here's how you can win that program leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications if you win we'll let you know in the comment section also there's only three days left for the maps April special okay maps centabolic is 50% off and map split is 50% off you have 72 hours to take advantage of this promotion if you're interested just click on the link at the top of the description below all right back to the show you know speaking of food and desserts and all these things we're talking about right now you know I had last night and I'll share the YouTube channel so if you're watching this on YouTube maybe the boys will post a video where I stole this from or whatever but Katrina made me last night cottage cheese ice cream huh right sounds freaking weird so it I'll try and go off of it because I didn't make it she made it but if I recall the the red it was a tub of cottage cheese just regular no flavor with that a quarter cup of honey to sweeten it two tablespoons of peanut butter and then some chocolate chips sprinkled in it and then you and then you whip it and then you put it in the freezer for four hours and it comes out like what do you whip it with just a spoon okay I just whip it with a spoon and then it comes out like literally the same texture as ice cream really yeah it was really good really and it packed I gotta do the macros cottage cheese is a lot of people I mean this is an old-school bodybuilding food yeah that is a high protein cheap if you can have dairy that's like a great is that I don't know that's that I don't know if that's the same recipe as I I don't know but it became popular on tiktok so but yeah I found it on like a tiktok thing and I'm like oh yes he looks just like that what crazy huh that's cottage cheese yes that's actually that might be the recipe Doug you look at the tell me what it is hey by the way did you guys know that in pictures you know they sometimes they make yep they make pictures look good because they use other foods that's it you know what they use for ice cream sometimes huh mashed potatoes because it doesn't melt so yeah look at it look at the texture on that what's the I think that's the exact recipe I used right there wow yeah I think it is let me find the recipe here so okay so after I did it and you just freeze it for a while yeah so okay so I we over froze it like she put it in she made it look for me yesterday and I had it late at night so what I did notice about it it and it the recipe calls for like a four-hour free so if you time it right it'll be like that perfect texture it gets harder than ice cream oh I see so I was eating it last night it was like a lot of work but it was actually I mean I she was like oh no she's like I was we shouldn't have done it that long and those ruin I'm like you know it's actually was it was nice like I ate it slow and enjoyed it like it was I didn't mind it being all hard but if you want to time it if you want that perfect texture to be just like that but so good and then I'm gonna now experiment with so I'm gonna replace the chocolate chips and the peanut butter and I'm gonna do graham crackers and strawberries because cottage cheese frozen tastes like cream cheese a little bit like cream like so I'm thinking like a strawberry cheesecake type of flavor would be even better than the peanut butter chocolate that's amazing yeah I'm gonna try this out oh and it's a high protein super easy to make back when I used to be able to have dairy I was cottage cheese all the time I used to always eat cottage cheese it's such a hack that's a cheap super high on protein easy I used to just like get the they make they sell ones that have like pineapple in it right now they'll just sit need a whole thing for look at the macro especially if you're like looking for if you want to bulk at the whole whole fat version you're done it's a meal yeah so this was like a cool little replacement for my ice cream and also packed full of protein dude speaking of like we just mentioned yesterday and how tired I being in here so for people so just to kind of paint the context from 9 a.m. till 3 p.m. we were in here recording episodes and this is kind of like an amplified version of what people probably experience in the office and in a normal office and it's amplified because it's more it's darker and there's more electric lights right so there's like a spotlight on our faces it's super dark and poor ventilation yeah and you know kind of like we got the soundproofing or whatever and we were in here from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. pretty much on stop is nonstop like talking bro how did you guys feel afterwards exhausted as hell and now I went and jumped on NCI call and I was like trying to muster up all the energy I could but thankfully it went pretty well but it's I was tired it's a weird exhaustion it's like obviously you get physically exhausted which doesn't feel bad yeah this fell like mentally like fried and unhealthy like I went outside and I had to go right away to go pick up my kid and I opened the sunroof to try and get some sun and some air yeah and I was like this is terrible but now this is obviously like I said this is an amplified version but I could see why working in an office every day not seeing the sun electric lights computer screen oh my god I mean that is cubicle that's like death to me well you know it's good what it does to the normal person it's going to make you feel depressed and anxious yeah it's going to make you feel that way 100% environment for the rise of depression anxiety ADD all that stuff I mean 100% it's crazy so I was who's I talking to I was talking to somebody yesterday about you know kids and the rise in anxiety depression I'm like yeah it totally mirrors the fact that they're outside less socializing less getting less sun and more on their screens and what's weird to me is that people aren't making it as big of a deal about this connection they're trying to complain it on all these other things like oh it's social media it's just that dude if you took a dog you took a dog and you locked it in a room most the time with no sunlight or whatever that dog would start acting crazy everybody knows this well anybody like like humans are any different anybody who has kids I mean you it's I've seen it plenty of times it's very clear to me when max gets up and no TV no iPad no nothing gets outside pretty early and plays outside for a couple hours it like his behavior is his his attitude his ability to fall right to sleep like it's night and day difference it's it's really really it's very obvious to me so I think we just get in these a lot of people get in these rhythms of you know utilizing a lot of these tools to kind of babysit and then we're inside a lot and they just haven't made that you know it's kind of like people who think that everything's okay and that they feel good but they've never actually felt great so they don't have a reference point so I think some parents just don't have a reference point like you know and I challenge anybody who's never made that cautious effort to like hey I'm gonna make sure I don't let my son or child have any sort of screen time and I'm gonna make an active actor to get him outside and be active and physical and play for a whole day and then pay attention to their behavior it's to to me it's really obvious so you know it's a good example of that you're watch those videos they're actually kind of hard to watch because they're they make you emotional sometimes you're watch those video that new technology they have those glasses now where for people who are colorblind they can put them on and all of a sudden see like normal have you seen those videos no but I've seen the ones for a hearing okay so always make me all well because they do it on kids and it just yeah I can't do that I saw one who's an old guy he was like in his 50s so his whole life has been colorblind so he has no reference point right just like you're saying yeah no reference point doesn't nobody's missing and his kids right his older kids for his birthday got on these glasses and so you're looking at a 50-something-year-old man he looks like a like a kind of like a staunch kind of crusty old guy or whatever puts him on and then he does he can't talk and he's just looking around and they're like dad dad dad whatever and then he starts crying he had no idea yeah what it was like and I wonder how many people have no idea yeah how shitty they feel because and it's funny you look at schools a lot I guarantee you look at schools and boy did we lose a lot of wisdom in school schools used to place an emphasis on two things that we completely removed physicality it's like you know PE exercise getting outside and music and both we know for fact contribute strongly to mental health we took them out did you see the are you refer did you see the Jordan Peterson clip yesterday that he posted oh oh it's so funny I thought maybe it was about that yeah and he was actually in particular he was talking about maybe Doug could pull it up or not he's in particular he's talking about boys in school and just how it is just not structured and then he actually went through personality types so like if you're an extrovert you know and social and forgotten creative like he went through like the personality types and how much the the school structure is conflicts with that yeah he probably he probably gave the traits that we all have no 100% that you can't help but you hear that and then you and then you wonder why you know these why kids you know some kids struggle like that yeah this is right here let's can you turn it up can we listen to this huge disconnect yeah schools are not well adapted to boys boys aren't designed to sit still and be bored out of their skulls for seven hours a day there are boys with particular temperaments who are even less inclined to be able to do that so for example if you're extroverted highly social possessed by a fair bit of enthusiasm and positive emotion then you're going to appear more hyperactive if you're creative then your attention is going to be fragmented in some sense by the multiplicity of your interest so if you're creative and extroverted then you have both of those working against you in terms of your quiescent adaptation to the school environment if you're disagreeable which is also more likely if you're male then you're quite likely to push back against what you see as stupid arbitrary rules and so we know perfectly well for example that attention deficit disorder overlaps with childhood conduct disorder and antisocial behavior and I'm not saying that all children diagnosed with hyperactivity are conductist ordered I'm saying that more aggressive boys tend to manifest symptoms that sometimes tilt them towards juvenile criminality and sometimes tilt them towards attention deficit disorder and hyperactivity but it's partly there somewhat rebellious temperament and so if you're disagreeable and extroverted and creative well then why wouldn't you be hyperactive well so damn check check pause after a second messed up dude right he like listed every every attribute I'm like why is he talking to me bro going in school yeah that's messed up I mean it's well that was hard to listen to because as he was going down the list I'm like explains explains why that it's a common theme between all of us right well so I feel like arbitrary rules I feel like your two options if that's you and you're in that situation your two options are either like he said criminality or entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship to some extent is rebelliousness yeah you are rebelling against I'm not working for somebody I'm gonna do my own thing so all of us for the most part didn't do criminality you know Adam kind of a little kind of combined both he went most of us he just put his feet in the water you know he didn't go full yeah I mean is it technically technically criminal if I didn't if I didn't get caught yeah no it didn't happen actually it's all alleged this is allegedly allegedly boy that was fucking hard to watch dude oh man that sucks it's the truth though so I mean do you I really feel like we got it with all this AI talk that we've been having and how fast everything is moving and how much it's disrupting all these spaces god we cannot be far from this I mean really disrupting education because one of the things we are well first of all we already know the trend that's happening with homeschooling right homeschooling has been exploding exploding exploding right and its growth and I would make the case that the reason why a lot of parents don't do it is probably similar to why I'm I'm afraid to do is just because man I don't know if I have the time to dedicate to make sure he gets a really good education and I don't want to fall short there most of it is you just don't know what it looks like yeah you're right right and so but I mean as these AI tools start coming out I mean it's we're probably not far from really simplifying that process to have support on how to how to steer and control something like that while also working full-time or doing something so I will say this today there's way more resources that help you organize what that would look like homeschooling wise than there than there used to be so there are places you could go I don't know any of the top of my head but where they'll help you organize it and it's got some it's got there's some with more structure some with less structure there's hybrid options and you can meet up with other kids that are actually doing it together yeah there's a lot better I think solutions for that now than there was before it used to just be like you're just completely isolated yeah and then they got to pass these tests everything well I can't I'm just okay I think that we're close to I don't know how long is Ted X been around for it's only been around for maybe a decade decade and a half would you say I would guess so I mean and that that that has to be growing right the amount of that like once that gets to a point where damn near every subject has and what's what's so special about Ted X talks is you get somebody who is passionate about the subject who is also a great speaker and teacher teaching it or else it doesn't go viral it only goes viral if it was something that and they cut all the fat out yes they literally just present it as like this punctual like yeah imagine going to school take yourself back to our high school years and subjects that you were just like uh this you know whatever history or whatever that you were going through social studies and you're just like I'm not interested and you actually had a Ted X talk about like that that particular subject someone's super passionate yeah so then you're you're boring teacher who's been reading out of the textbook for you just like oh god I just can't I can't imagine how much you know I literally had so much fat I literally had a history teacher used to do that show up that's what he used to do he used to show up to class we'd all sit down we'd all pull out our textbook and then we'd go down the row and read a page of the book this was every day I wanted to rip my eyeballs out of my head every day yeah I was like this is and then I remember thinking like you're doing time it felt like you're literally in a penitentiary like just doing time listening to nonsense I remember being like how's he getting paid for doing this anybody I could do this right now exactly stupid they have there was there's one online course that started I think it was on youtube a while ago that now is being adopted has been adopted by schools it's a math course can't remember the name of it uh is it kuman is that the one I've heard of that one that's Japanese those are those schools that are all over maybe not there was there was one there was this guy he was teaching math con con academy yeah he started online and parents would use it to teach their kids because kids were learning math so effectively and now schools will stream it into their classrooms because he did such a damn effective job right I don't you see that gonna start happening more and more like people disrupting like that people putting out creating content so effective that kids are learning at a faster rate or retain it has to change yeah it absolutely has to change it is and I think it's going to read sooner than I don't remember what we said earlier like I remember we've talked about this before and predicted in like the next decade or whatever but I know it's gonna have a I mean even I mean Jordan Peterson's working on his academy where he's bringing in these like professors and people like that you know have really done a masterful job of condensing their content and information and it's like you know for for like a fraction of the price you go to to college you're getting like a way better education and it's like you know it I don't know I see like a lot of trends going in that direction with like being able to you know reduce because that's another humongous thing it's like you know you got to spend like thousands and thousands of dollars to just get through the the whole bureaucracy of the whole thing the whole system is ready to break it's so close to break and speaking of technology I can't believe what you said yesterday oh did you see that I can't believe it's that it's happening now right now an AI created song and I was tripping on this an AI created song went viral it's they've released a whole album of it now and they can't stop it a whole album yes of them wow okay and that's why they're freaking out they're trying to oh my god and people are doing it just remember when Napster hit you're doing it anonymously so they can't stop it so it's not like they go prosecute one person they're just putting it out there and and people and then it's so good everybody is sharing it and it's the toothpaste is out too the cat's out of the bag okay so you gotta say it was Drake and it was Drake in the weekend but it wasn't really them but okay but I used their voice though it was literally their their voice is singing it it generated their voices and it created a completely brand new original song and the song was good it went viral yeah this song that that's why it went viral because okay it's one thing that okay we've already seen the AI technology that can replicate someone's voice it's been cheesy you know for the last I don't know I guess maybe a year's been out right like the like people have been experimenting with trying to create songs dude like one year already this hit 60 minutes this is like going everywhere right now this is like the big talk is the like they're up in arms trying to figure out how are they going to stop this they can't and what are they gonna do they can't like they can't stop it it's crazy it's insane I think the music labels music labels are just gonna use they're gonna okay the artists are screwed yeah artists are screwed music labels are going to use AI to create music and that's you know what's funny the thought used to be that art would be untouchable by AI because art was this like mysterious creative thing but it's so turning out that they can create so I still believe in us humans okay there's gonna be a way that's right look at the streaming I don't know out of the whole Napster thing and I also I don't believe art will ever die right I think I think art art changes and what we think is beautiful or unique or whatever that is it changes so maybe I mean it sounds silly but like the you know creating the imperfections in a song or doing things that haven't been done yet now the challenge is going to be is every time that's done then AI right afterwards can replicate so really quick I thought about this but somebody's almost like patenting your likeness your voice right at some point like because if they're going to be able to then utilize what what authentically sounds like you and at some point they'll be able to kind of well we'll see if they will or not but the thing is is like if people are using it on a platform whatever that platform is is going to be like held responsible so I thought of this so they're not going to be able to use people's voices that'll be easy to regulate if you use our voice then you have to pay us royalties so they'll have their own voices now what you're saying Adam I think there's going to be value in music that people know as human created just like go to you go buy ceramics right go buy a place you made this already I don't disagree this theory that it's live will be a organic versus yes however the mass consumption it's it's as easy like pop like a look at pop music pop music is the most listen to music it's garbage follows a freaking formula but everybody consumes it so the masses are going to consume this processed music because it's going to hit all the buttons in your brain and it'll be then there's gonna be people on the ends were like I like the yeah no I like my coffee made with beans from here slow drip through whatever I wrote you know what I'm saying you know it's funny about all this yeah because I've already just like noticed my like patterns behaviors of what I've like started consuming music wise and it's like I'm more into like the garage you know like noise like loud like like it's it's a little bit off right there's error there's like there's there's a human kind of distinction there right like it's not a formula I guess is the is the point that is a formula the mistake you're making right now no I know they will create music that sounds like that they'll figure it out well I guess what I'm saying is that's been my natural tendency and then I'm going to be seeking bands so in person so really what is it does it shape up to be and I think you're on the right track of kind of what it looked like right the masses will consume Starbucks then there'll be the fringe people that refuse to go there because they don't like Starbucks burns all their beans and they want to done a certain drip to certain way and so I do believe that but then what it will naturally do is drive the the the price way way low way low so are we gonna are we no longer gonna see the the ballers like like Kanye billionaire type of rappers and musicians because the that era of paying them and getting them making that kind of money for concerts and well that's why the industry is freaking out because they aren't going to get those boat loads coming in it's going to it's decentralizing it completely yeah so then it's going to become like if you sing it's purely because it's a passion you love what you do and you can make somewhat of a living from it but you're not going to get filthy rich no there's going to be value and stuff that's made by humans by collectors and they'll be verified like bro this song was made by people here's the symbol that shows that it was a human created song and then there'll be value in that but that's not going to be the mass consume shit the mass consume shit is going to be the the you know perfectly created hits all the freaking you know dopamine receptors the brain processed music and they'll be able to create garage band sounding music and EDM and so you see Doug pulled up the article so its universal music group is actually trying to stop Spotify and other streaming services from putting out the AI stuff stupid yeah but how are they going to know well not only that but you know if you're spotify i'd be like f you because because they're going to learn it they'll lose so my my my brother in law and i were talking about this stuff just a couple days ago and he was his son as a my nephew is um in high school and you know the young generation like they're they're consuming their music now on like tiktok and instagram he's like he was we're listening he goes to someone's instagram page all day and it was all AI generated music wow and we just had it playing it was all AI generated music and he was his son was that's like all the kids are listening to right so the so the label the music already happening the music labels have a lot of power they've been around for a long time like hollywood they're very entrenched into politics they'll be able to stop music that copies their artists voices they're not going to be able to stop original music original music they're fucked yeah but even that sal though how i mean so you remember the big lawsuit with vanilla ice and um you know when he done done done done done right the and and it's like there's a bully he he won because queen he won he won because it had that extra ch or whatever in it tink yeah yeah and because it was not exactly the same hilarious that's the way there's those so how how how are they going to distinguish whether they use similar sounding as Kanye or weekend but then the the pitch is just awful they already have those laws and so and those that's fine but it's completely original take out drake and the weekend's voice that was a original song i yeah i know but you gotta understand part of what makes that go viral is because it is drake and we had some mash-up with them for now already popular well for now so my point i mean we'll take a bit for people to but i think for an actual artist that's like AI generated to gain traction um it will happen like i'm not denying that i think that again it's the established artist right now is like that's why it's viral look it's like where's the line though is what i okay so where is it where they just tweak it enough that it's no longer we can call you but it's close enough that it you think it is so like i said those laws already exist okay they're already on the books what is it what you said that but what does that mean there's like so many bars yeah they already have laws like that like where if an artist samples another artist yeah there's already laws that protect that so AI can't create a song that that breaks those particular laws uh and it's not gonna have to it's gonna create original music and it's gonna go viral because kids are on these streaming platforms and like oh this is a cool song this will share it share it share it and all these artists are gonna be screwed especially because the music so what i see so i i see having happening and we see this already i'm telling you this could be a political push they've already human made human made shit they've already they've already got this going there's already AI generated characters on instagram that have millions of followers they'll take somebody so they'll take someone like that and they will put they will give him his own original voice because he has a following already in a network sure and then that is the way they've been building him up right now yeah it's just another thing to tack on and you can also make that character where the hell you want yeah i mean well speaking i'm a unicorn man yeah let's sing the song there was this like so i follow this page uh this science page i think it's science free or i forget what it is but it had this like cool video where this guy was playing a trumpet and he was playing it through this tube and in the tube like there was these holes at the top and the and it had like this um gas kind of like fire propelled like so basically like these flames would come out of the tube and as he played it you could like physically see the sound waves effect oh the actual waves of the flames and so as the notes change you see that like frequency uh change in real time i was showing my son the other before i was putting in okay so that's an example why i think really cool team human still wins in this art department because that is something that ai wouldn't have generated you wouldn't even know how to prompt it to get that and a human will do it first and if you find if we can find ways that you protect that that anything they get copies that afterwards you get some sort of royalty you still will be could possibly become rich for the original creative idea of creating something like that that's how it's going to have to be otherwise how else physical uh dug the physicality of it right now i think that's where we have to start looking is like how can we perform you know the art uh in persons and then i think there's going to be a lot more draw well listen this okay i wasn't going to bring this up on the podcast because whatever we share everything on here uh because this has been on my mind a lot especially after that article that i shared with you guys last night i mean if you guys don't think that our shit's going to be copied within the next year you're fucking crazy of course oh yeah i mean there there's nothing in the same if they can take the weekend in kanya and write a good song like that what makes you not think they can make a just an adam and sell podcast that mirrors and create similar content that's doing that so what is going to keep people still coming back to us or or or still coming into our ecosystem and helping this business still survive because people are they want to not allow the robot uprising that's going to kill us all that's why so they're gonna support us that hey listen literally literally um i because a year ago a i could not generate viral music that was within one year okay so yeah the only way any humans are going to work and in in this type of environment besides those people that own and create these ai machines or whatever these these devices are going to be because consumers are going to choose real humans that's it because they will be able to copy us the technology we'll get to the point where it'll be a better me i'll be listening to the podcast like damn that's how we are we are we um do you think we're we're loyal by nature do you think that as the majority as a majority do you think we're truly loyal like that a segment for sure oh yeah by the masses yeah no no no i lost all hope for that not the masses like there's certain people in media that have done so much for me for example that i would like i would choose them because like but the majority of shit i consume like i don't care like oh your product this guy's product's better than yours i'll go in that direction but there's there's there's always that that there's going to be some of that loyalty yeah i mean i think so the thing that i was going to bring up off air with you guys is that i think it just um highlights the importance of us doing more of what we just did a week ago right of in-person events because what ai cannot replace is is that reaction i don't think they ever will be able to raise the human connection and touch and feel of me there's no way a machine is going to be able to stand in have that conversation like we had and people get that that response from it will at some point it will be able to create a you know it as soon as it can wash dishes it will do that it can't even do that yet right let it let it learn how to wash dishes first before it's available it'd be able to replicate human connection and the natural indoor i don't believe that sal i don't think you can replicate that you're talking about things that we can't even fully explain still we know that everything around us is energies we know that when two people stand for each other there's all kinds of stuff that's being transferred surrounded around us and you think that a robot is going to be able to simulate that i don't all it has to do is trick you but until we get to before we get to that point i think it'll get something else will happen i think it'll get way weirder than that you know we have indistinguishable you know robots from humans i mean we already we there's already there's already stuff to show that there's a difference between us communicating over zoom versus us communicating in person yeah okay so oh that's more real okay zoom with me is more real than a robot standing right in front of you talking to you so what makes you think that we're going to be able to make that leap if we haven't even made that leap as a real human on through zoom you're not we haven't been able to transfer that energy like that it's going to be a long time the physical part but you know be i was just thinking like because there's a lot of those like underlying cues of like even like on a biochemical level right like so if they're like blasting with oxytocin as you're giving them a hug or something and they're like trying to trick you you know into liking well that's his point is that you know there's gonna be like when you get sprayed in the face with oxytocin or something it's like no no no i think it's all data at some point it's it's uh for everything the energy field there's like you know yeah i don't know church last week or something or what i don't know look you guys i don't mean when we get a church and you already there's like so much more going on bro than just right you're coming to save us i said you haven't been paying attention i said trick i said trick i think people can be tricked is my point well i don't disagree with that you know but i there's gonna be something about that the real human connection that there will be a desire for i think those movies you know like like uh like a the body snatchers like wait is that really justin you got to ask it a question yeah you know that only justin would know i don't know it's gonna be fun i wasn't gonna ask you justin about your north korean jacket what's up with that uh that's right to kill the communist that's one of my favorite little memes i can't help it every time you wear it i see kim young jose my dictator cook it's like you know sometimes i need that on some days all right i'm gonna get shit done today everybody around me is gonna do it for me or you're gonna go to jail yeah i love that one of the two there'll be an uprising yeah hey we're one of our other sponsors we're supposed to talk about caldera and you know what's what's so i've been diving deep into not super deep but somewhat deep into like skincare products and stuff like that because i was never a skincare guy obviously we worked with caldera lab didn't want to work with them so like what skincare stuff we don't care started using it we're like this stuff is legit you know what the difference is between their approach and almost every other company's approach every other company tries to strip your skin of what it naturally you know has and possesses and then replaces it with something synthetic caldera does not do that caldera's products are there to help enhance what your skin naturally produces and balances it out that's why it's so different you know what that sounds like kind of like adaptogens versus like pharmaceuticals yeah yeah right totally because look and this is true like justin and i couldn't have more different skin we're both very very different he's on that spectrum i'm over here i'm oily he's dry we use the same caldera oil and it makes it look it makes it good why is that funny sounds perverted very dry it makes me dry thinking about this conversation yeah i didn't say wet is it oily oh my god you picked me a grease in my hair Doug he's tan i'm definitely not yeah let's go down the list let's sing a song together justin okay anyway all right so towards the end here i might bring this up because i'm not bringing this up in the beginning because this is a this was a crazy the craziest experience i think i've ever had in my entire life whoa i swear to god i mean like that aside aside from like having my kids be born and stuff like that um i did emdr last night for the first time that is like a techno dance rave yeah with molly you should see me pumping my face it's pretty awesome you explain to the audience what it is so it sounds silly but it's crazy so it's called it stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing it's a psychotherapy treatment and it was designed to alleviate this distress associated with traumatic memory so they started doing this towards the like early 90s is it like is it based off of like neuro linguistics no no no no so okay so here's essentially what i experienced because that so i'm this i'm not an expert in this so i'm gonna tell you what i experienced so you hold these two buzzers okay they're like little things that that will vibrate and they'll vibrate at particular speeds and you'll close huh you'll close in your hand justin and you'll close your hands your hands in your eyes and the person you're working with will walk you through different thoughts and experience experiences that you've had or whatever and there's usually a direction or sometimes no direction so with me there was no direction she's like you know the person i'm working with she's like um first we did this like exercise where i learned how to relax and how to become tense so i guess i was developing the ability to create that contrast that feeling and while i'm holding these buzzers by the way and one's going off on my left right and then the other one goes off on my left my eyes were closed and my when when we go off on my right my eyes would move in a particular so you can feel your eyeball my eyes would want to move yeah so i'm like this is fucking weird like what is going on so as so i did that first then she's like um okay like do you want to go with something specific or do you want to do like just see what comes up i'm like oh let's just i don't know let's see what comes up so she's like all right ask yourself and i'm this is like the short version ask yourself if there's any part of you that wants to say anything to you so i'm like okay so i'm doing this thing and do you speak it out loud are you just in your head in your head in your head so then she doesn't hear anything from no and then and then well i'll do this for a minute with the with the buzzers or whatever and then she'll ask me okay what did you see and then i'll go into it for a second she'll be like okay think of that and then she does it again and so let's take this repeated cycle here's what's fucking weird about it so i had and i'm not going to go into detail because i'll probably uh get emotional in the pot it was really weird right i had a thought and then each successive thought i would have never thought would have been connected to the first one but it went deeper and deeper and deeper and these and i wasn't trying to bring shit up it was just coming up coming up coming up did you okay so when it's happening it wasn't like i was like oh this is where i'm going to go okay so yeah when it's happening you have no you're just like random thought random thought random thought random thought think about what you just thought about think about what you just thought about think about what does that make you feel where did you feel in your body okay feel that okay now what did you think about what came up for you what did that look like how do you How do you feel about that? All right, go into that. Just peeling back layers of the onion. Bro, I was like, it was like a chain that was connected. Once you're at the end of the chain, you see how it's all connected. But I went down, down, down, down, down to my childhood. And I had a feeling that I had not felt since I was a kid. And now logically, here's the crazy part. You could ask me, and again, I'm not gonna get specific because right now it's a little too fresh and personal. But if you ask me, hey, Sal, tell me about this experience. I could tell you logically. Oh yeah, when I was a kid. This happened to me all the time. No problem. Not the same. I felt it. Like you felt it. Almost like you were in that moment again. I felt the feeling that I had when I was a kid. You were able to not forever, right? You could acknowledge it, but now you have to feel it in again. Yeah, dude. And so I was like, when I went into it, because I knew what I was getting into, and my tendency, I think like a lot of people, especially men, is you're gonna feel something that makes you feel a way you don't want. For me, it's like I don't like to be vulnerable, right? So if I feel like I'm gonna be vulnerable, very easily shut it off, which it's not gonna happen. In fact, it happens on its own. Sometimes I'll feel like, oh, something's coming up and it goes away. Right, you're kind of doing that right now. Right, I'm doing it right now, right? So because I'm on camera, I'm talking to you guys. I mean, just be real, I'm saying that. 100%. And I have a great ability to do that. You guys have seen me do that before. So, but I told myself, and she's like, okay, go into that. Go into that. So I'm going into it, going into it, and then it just fucking start coming up. And I'm like, am I gonna cry in front of this fucking thing? And dude, it was- Did it just come out or what? Really? You were weird, bro. I felt feelings I hadn't felt since I was a kid and it was fucking weird. It was so weird. And after we were done, you know, the whole thing, I sat there and I looked at her and I'm like, you fucking made me cry. And she started laughing. And she's like, oh no, that's, you know. And so what happens essentially is, apparently the physical sensation, it's like this bilateral stimulation of the brain and it takes, you create this pattern in your brain. And again, I'm not an expert, so I'm probably explaining it wrong, but you create this pattern in your brain that protects you from a particular feeling for whatever reason. And you can't get through the processing because you've now created this pattern. So it's like you cut yourself and then you put a block in between the cut. Your skin ain't gonna heal. That's just the way it is now. The only way you'll heal is if you take the block out and then now you feel the wound. Expose it, yeah. And then shit starts to heal. So what it does is allows that rewiring to happen. So then what happened is I felt this feeling and it was very real. And then I started to understand it, but here's the weird part. So I don't know if this will make sense without me explaining what happened, but I'll try. I could explain it to myself as adult cell. So I could look back and be like, you know, so-and-so was trying their best. They were stressed, they were, you know, whatever. So I could explain it to myself, but now I could understand it as the kid. So now as the kid experiencing what's happening, now I experience it with that understanding. Fucking weird. So how were you able to connect? Weird. So how, okay, because of that, and because you had blocked that for so long and in any other time you had thought about it, you'd only thought about it from a logical adult perspective, how were you able to make the connection to that this is me feeling as a kid? You know what I'm saying? Oh, I recognize it. You did. Oh, you recognize it. Like it felt like that. Like, oh God, I've felt this before. Bro, there it is. Ooh, that's weird. It's very weird. I didn't even know it was there. Yeah, that's weird. I had no idea it was there, but when I felt it, it was there. And I was like, that's that feeling. Holy shit. And it was connected to all this other stuff. So anyway. Wow. That's really weird shit. So for everybody. Are you okay? So are you supposed to, now that you have that information, is there like homework for you to work on that? Or is part of the just the process just getting in touch with that, feeling it, processing it? That was it. That was the work. Oh, so that's it. I mean, that's literally it. It was just kind of connecting those dots. You gotta let it come out. You gotta feel it. And then you're- Yeah, it's hard to like, I'd be like, how do I reconcile this now? Well, so this kind of reminds me, I've told the story before on the podcast about the experience that Katrina and I had when the one of the first times that I did psilocybin with her. And it was only just, it wasn't like a crazy dose. It was a little bit more than a micro dose. And we had this, and you can just explain it as like scar block or like injury. I think of it like as a neurological pathway that it's there. So logically, she could recall, yeah, I know how Adam feels about this. I know, and I know we don't agree. But there's a block there of actually being able to feel what I feel. And like when we did the psilocybin, it opened up that pathway for her. And for the first time ever, she saw me from my perspective on that thing that she could logically talk about for years in our relationship. But for the first time, she could emotionally connect to how I felt about it. It seems very similar to- I don't know if it's- Obviously it's different. Yeah, but you know, the way it was explained to me, it's like if you look at fresh snow and then you make tracks in the snow and then you keep making tracks in that same snow, that's the path now. And to go differently, you gotta go through fresh snow and it's hard and slow and whatever. So it's allowing new pathways. A new pathway. Yeah. And it exists, those pathways exist to protect you. You're just hardwired to go the other way, the way that you always travel. And by the way, if you do this, the person doing it has to be good and understand that they could go too far. Oh, I'm sure, right? They could go too far because your body's protecting you for a reason. So like she told me, she's like, you're probably gonna feel emotional and weird for the next few days. How exhausted were you afterwards? Emotionally exhausted. Oh, I came home, dude. I couldn't even look at my kids because I was gonna break down. Oh my God, wow. Took a shower for an hour. Yeah, it was really strange. But she said, look, if you feel like excessively unstable and emotional, I want you to call me. She tells me how when she first experienced it, because before she became, did this, she was a patient years ago. And she said the person who did it wasn't as well-versed as she is, pushed her too hard. She's like, I was fucked up for two weeks afterwards. So it's like, and you're saying like psychedelics, like I'm sure it's the same thing. Someone could hit a dose, too hard. Too many pathways, too much at once. Oh fuck, now I'm even more traumatized. Right, right, right. But it's very strange, man. It's really weird. No, I don't, and the crazy part is I had no idea that that wasn't happening. So it's not like I'm like, oh yeah, we're gonna work on this. Yeah, like you didn't have a goal to attack that. And it was something that I thought I dealt with. That's the crazy part. Do you remember the last time even logically you thought about it? Yeah, I mean, I could talk about it all day long. And I've talked about it a hundred times. It's that I never, I didn't feel it. I probably didn't feel that feeling since I was eight. I mean, I totally can get that. I mean, there's things that I can logically share about my childhood that it doesn't make me emotional to talk about. And it's like, but a lot of that probably is because I can't quite put myself in the way I felt. You can't access it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously there's, there's was traumatic things that had happened that I have no problem talking about to your point of like I can lodge and I can even logically justify it from my parents' perspective and be like, well, you know, they were young. That's why it was so surprising. Right, right. And so, but if you made me actually tap into the feelings when I felt like in that moment when it happened to me, well, I remember how distraught and traumatized I was like crying and how out of control I was in. So I imagine that wouldn't feel good. No, dude. That's what I said. I said, that's not cool. I don't like the way it feels to love it. All right, let's do this. Party drug? But you gotta fucking do it, man. You gotta do it. If you want to be, my motivator is, look, here's the thing. I'm motivated to be the best father I can be. So, so do, okay. So I know I'm doing my best to not pry too much but also ask good questions about this because I'm very curious to like, okay, so now you, you receive this or you connect to this feeling and obviously you have to be processing something of like, what is this for? Like why is this important to me today with my life now? Do you already feel like there's things that either you're going to look at differently or that you're going to do differently because you now were able to connect that you had this thing? Yes, but it's, here's the thing. It's not like, oh, okay, I can see what it's like. It was, it's there. It's literally like, God, I don't know. It's like you had anesthesia in your right arm. Yeah. So it's completely numb. Okay. Take the anesthesia off. I can feel it now. Oh, there's my arm. And you don't need to like, think about what to do with it or whatever. I know exactly what's going to happen. It's going to take me a second to get back to normal probably a couple of days but it's not like, oh, I need to sit down and have a plan. That's how wild it is. Like literally, if you look at the research on this, it like in many cases will take, now it's not perfect for everybody. If you're like have like crazy disassociative disorder, it's going to be really hard for you to do this. But it replaces like years of psychotherapy because it puts you there. That's it. And then you rewire it and then. It does sound very similar to like a good therapeutics psilocybin type of trip. You know what I'm saying? As far as kind of connecting. You know, it's funny that my fear going into something like that, cause I knew it. I'm like, okay, I've read about this and this is going to be kind of whatever. I'm like, I don't want to fucking cry. I mean, literally that's always my thing. Like I don't want to cry in front of somebody. Like that's a big thing. Like that's just, I don't want to do that. It's what happened, bro. That's a man thing. It is, especially in front of a woman. You feel like, oh God. What prompted you to do it in the first place? Was there a particular goal you had or did somebody recommend it? Well, it was recommended, but you know, I really want to be just a good parent, you know, and you can't do that without becoming a better person, just the bottom line. So challenges come up with your kids and you know what, you end up, here's what happens is that you pass on, and this became very obvious to me last night, you pass on your challenges without realizing it. So you could talk and act and think you act in a particular way, but your kids pick up on the subtle shit that you are not aware of, which is exactly what I did when I was a kid. So that's the part that really became, you know, super obvious to me. Oh, so to me that answers what I asked you then, because that's exactly what I meant by that. It's like, so you became more aware of how you received something even though it wasn't communicated. So now you're probably more aware of some of your actions and behaviors around your kids, even if it's not necessary. Just around anybody. Yeah, yeah. It gives you more perspective. It's weird. So, okay, so you can keep going. I mean, how's it? Yeah, dude. How often? How often do we expect you to be fucked up? I don't know if I could do this. It's like, maybe we could spread this out maybe every couple of weeks. I'm fine, I'll do it, right? I think, I'm okay. I think, I don't know, it depends on what's happening at home because it'll, I mean, knock me out a little bit for a day or two. So it depends how we're doing with the baby and the kids and all that stuff because there's gonna be times when I need to be more like available and I can't just be like, I'm gonna sit over here and be weird for a day or two. No, afterwards, are you also processing this with Jessica and sharing with her? Okay, you are. So it's not like a, just a you. No, no, I talked to her about it afterwards. Okay, so she knows all that. Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy stuff. Let's shout out Jordan Peterson if we haven't done that before. The guy's got great content, communicates exceptionally well. I think it's one of, I think he's one of the greatest thought leaders of our time. I agree. So it's Jordan B, Jordan dot B Peterson, right? Jordan dot B dot Peterson's how you'll find them. Is that right? Correct. Hey, what's happening? There's a new product called Sleep Breakthrough that has been shown to improve the quality of sleep and help you get to sleep faster. It's got compounds and ingredients, of course, like magnesium, but there's also theanine, GABA and herbs like valerian root that relax the body, allow you to fall into that deep slumber and stay asleep until you wake up refreshed. It's good stuff. Go check them out. Go to sleepbreakthrough.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump 10 for a discount. All right, back to the show. First question is from jokes and polks. I cannot do a pull-up for the life of me. What could I do to substitute the pull-ups in maps anabolic? You could definitely regress pull-ups and then progress to be able to do a full pull-up. Get a band assistant. Yeah, you could do a band, band around the bar where you stretch it down and put your knee or your foot in it. It'll help lift you. If that's too challenging, you could do body rows. This is where you angle your body. So you're pulling your body to the bar and you can make that more or less challenging. You could also stand on something so that you're at the top of the pull-up, take your feet off whatever you're standing on and just do an isometric hold. And then also a negative, a real slow negative, where you just release really slow. Yeah, I like, yeah, with the suspension trainer is really good for that in scaling the intensity of what you're talking about with the body weight row just because you wanna get to a point where you're really stressing the intensity of that and you get stronger. So then when you go up to your upright position, you'll be able to do that. I mean, you can get bands that will, unless you're like, I don't know, even if you were over 300 pounds, I'm sure there's bands that are like that thick. They make bands that are super strong. So, and you could use two if you needed to. So I've had clients that couldn't even come close to doing one pull-up and then we used a real thick band and they put their knees in it and then they can do seven of them. And so you just start with something like that. I really like that because I feel like it's the closest thing to- It's a pull-up. Yeah, you're pulling out- Same movement pattern. Yeah, you're just taking your body weight off of it. So it's just like- You're practicing it that way. Yeah. And then you get really good at that. Then you press, but everything we all mentioned are all ways to regress it. So you could do something right now. Justin would probably argue that's the best way a Smith machine was ever used was- That's one value, right? Actually, you guys see like they've reinvented it a bit and to where you can actually, they have like an attachment in the cage where it slides. So the American bar, I saw- Somebody said that to me. That's been around for a while. It's been around, the American barbell gym has had that for, you were there when it was there? I don't think so. Oh, you must have just left in because they've actually had that over by the squat racks for a long time. It's not just the bar that moves up and down, but it's the rack- It still is a little- It's still irrelevant. And it's still a little clunky. Like, I mean, I can't admit that I've never tried to squat on it, but it still doesn't feel the same as- Of course not. It's never gonna replace that. Yeah, so, I mean- But better though. Right. The way I used to do it with clients is I would go body rows. We'd get really good at those. Then we would make the body rows more challenging. Then I'd have them stand up towards the bar, hold an isometric hold, and then we would eventually get better at that. Then I'd have them come down a little bit, see if they could hold that position for a little while. Then we come down a little bit, hold that, and this is over the course of weeks. And then I'd have them jump up and do a pull-up, and then lower themselves slowly. And then little by little, we would progress to be able to do a full pull-up. Next question is from MFS Wellness. What are some effective strategies to help clients find the right balance of enjoying their food and tracking their calories and macros, but not being so meticulous that it drives them to give up on themselves? Yeah, you know, for most people, you can go pretty far by doing two simple things. So you don't have to track everything, but by doing two simple things, eating or trying to eat mostly whole foods and then hitting your protein targets. If you do those two things, most people could go get to the point where they can get to a pretty healthy body fat percentage. Now, if you want to get shredded, then you're probably going to have to start getting a little bit more specific with your tracking, where you're tracking carbs, fats, and total calories. But literally, that's it. Those two things right there typically, and so what you do with the protein is you just prioritize it. So you don't tell yourself you can't have whatever you enjoy having. You just say, before I have all these other foods, I'm going to hit my 150 grams of protein or my 130 grams of protein. And that typically takes care of everything else because protein is so satiety producing that it's hard to overeat when you do that and when you do that first. So that's it. Those two things right there will handle most of it. Yeah, I guess this really depends on the conversation that I'm having with my client. And because sometimes you have a client that is just like that, that they're frustrated and they don't like tracking and they want to enjoy their food, but then they also want to look a certain way and their body isn't changing the way they would like. And it's like, well, at some point, if you really, like if you don't care, like if you don't really care about the scale, you don't really care about this visual you're chasing and you just want to be a healthy person, I can absolutely teach you how to enjoy foods, not track, exercise appropriately and make pretty good choices, but still enjoy the occasional whatever and be healthy. But if you're trying to make moves, if you're trying to lose 35, 50 pounds, you're trying to have abs, you're trying to build 10 pounds of muscle, you have these specific aesthetic-like goals, and then you've never tracked to get somewhat of awareness around what you're doing, it's a losing battle. Like you have to at least have some sort of grasp of what you're doing or not doing well. And I think that the most important part about tracking is the educational piece of making people aware of their habits and their behaviors. And if they're completely missing protein target, your point about prioritizing protein, well, that's great. I can have you prioritize protein, but if you're grossly under-eating it, but you still make it a priority to eat it first, like, I mean, you're better off than if you didn't do it, but then that could be a reason why we're not building muscle that we're trying to do right now is because you're under-eating like crazy and we're training more than enough for what you're doing. So the not tracking thing to me for a client and then also trying to make aesthetic goals is a really tough one. Being healthy and balanced, different story. Yeah, but to be more clear, hitting protein targets and prioritizing it are both the things that I'll suggest. So take your body weight or your target body weight if you're really overweight and hit that in grams of protein and then eat that first. And for the most part, eat whole natural foods and probably have, let's say you lose 50 pounds, okay? You'll probably lose 30 pounds just doing that. Just doing that, you'll slowly lose 30 pounds. I agree with that. Now you'll get stuck with your last 20 to 15 pounds and then you'll have to track a little more, but here's the deal. If you did what I said and you lost that first 30, now you're gonna be ready to get a little bit more specific with your tracking. The challenge is with people, they start and they're like, I'm tracking everything and planning everything. It's just too much. It's just too much all at once. So that's what I said for the average person. If you just start there, then you get pretty damn fine. I mean, they're still tracking, right? They have to track protein. But I like that piece of advice. And to take that further, one of the things I used to say to clients is that again, they wanna enjoy things. So maybe you have a Friday night, you go with your wife and you have your favorite steak place and there's a Pizuki dessert and there's wine that you wanna have and these things are nice things that you have and it's on Friday night. I would say, hey, yeah, enjoy yourself. But what I want you to try and do is before you get to dinner or including the dinner steak that you're going to have, make sure you hit your protein intake. And then on top of that, you can enjoy these foods. That to me, I think is a really good strategy. What ends up happening many times is people don't hit their protein intake and then they replace it with these calories. Yeah, well then you forget it. Right, then you're really going backwards. So if you tell the client like this and just hit that protein intake and then even on those nights when you want to enjoy this food, this dessert, this night out with your wife, just make sure you at least do that first. And then I guess the next step to that is like also be mindful of, how much is this paying you back? I think a one-on-one date with your wife that you probably don't get all the time is a very valuable time to enjoy yourself and have those things. I think every night, watching television, having a six pack of beer is not, at some point you have to become aware of your patterns and behaviors that you're doing and is it really serving you? And in a situation where you're going to dinner with your wife and you're having a glass of wine and dessert, that is serving you. It's serving you and your wife, your partnership, your relationship at that time. You having six beers Monday through Thursday every night is not serving you. So you have to also become aware of that. I like, yeah, I definitely like the simplicity of what you guys are suggesting for the beginning to focus on. And I mean, the only thing I would add is like, trying really hard not to get any calories from liquids or anything in that regard. And then that just kind of covers the basis of where the calories come in from the sugars and everything else, that they're intake. And then, so where does that also lead them into hydrating themselves more with water? Yeah, and by the way, speaking of awareness, here's what you may find when you're hitting your protein targets. You may find that you're in that situation where you want to eat that dessert. You're like, oh, I still have to eat 40 grams of protein. And you'll say to yourself, I don't want to eat that protein because I want to eat that dessert because you'll become aware of how effective that protein is at making you not want to eat anything else. That's right. So it is a very effective behavior awareness tool. And again, so be aware of that. When you're hitting these targets, you may actually find yourself saying, I'm not craving that though. I want to eat this other thing over here. That's a great time to be like, all right, what's going on here? Next question is from Pete Kendrick one. How would you recommend a completely deconditioned 40 year old start their fitness journey when all they've done for the past 20 years is walk? Oh, super basic strength training, like one or two exercises a day. Map 15-esque. Map 15 would be perfect for someone like this. Map starter, perfect. Those are two programs which would be great for someone like this. But strength training produces results because it's a stress on the body and your body adapts to it. And if you're doing none of it, doesn't take much to get the ball rolling. The little goes a long way, especially with somebody like this. Yeah, and more doesn't get the ball rolling faster. I want to make sure I'm clear here. So just the right amount. And if you're deconditioned, literally five body weight squats. One will set you back. Yeah, totally. You know, it's cool. I talked about this on the show recently. And this, we're talking about somebody who's deconditioned for what, 20 years, right? 20 years, super deconditioned. But I actually still apply this philosophy to myself. If I've been like very inconsistent for just say weeks or maybe a couple months, when I come back, it's amazing how little I have to do to already elicit change. It's like your body quickly adapts one way than the other way. And if you haven't been doing anything for six months even, like when you come back, the mistake that most people make is throwing the whole kitchen sink at their body and nutritionally all at once. Where all I want to do is I want to assess all of my behaviors around exercise and food. And I want to pick one, maybe two little things that I can start to do to move in the right direction to start to build wins and build momentum. And I always start with the things that I know are very easy. I don't want to go like, oh, I'm going to start with the real hard thing first. Like no, I want to start with the thing that's like so easy for me to either cut out or add into my life. And again, build some momentum because even that one little change, just simply, okay, I have this bad drinking soda habit and I haven't lifted any exercise. Literally doing one exercise body weight, whoever said that a day and cutting out those sodas, like dude, your body for the next couple of weeks will start to change because of that. It's the whole thing. Like if I were to go back and teach my old trainer self, it would be to get my clients to do every single day. Something they can do every single day to really build on that momentum. Cause it's not like, okay, I have them two, three times a week and then what can I squeeze in there to teach them these exercises that are going to benefit them? And yeah, I'm kind of teetering on that line of too much, not too much, but it's still not as effective of doing less but doing it more often. And that's why I really love the MAPS 15. Yeah, I had, when I got good at this, I would get deconditioned clients or older clients. And at the end of our first few sessions, they'd say, is that it? That's all I'm gonna do. I'd be like, you know, that's perfect. Then they come back and they're stronger. Like what? I got stronger? I didn't even get super sore. Like what's the deal? Like that was the right dose. That's the right dose. Next question is from Pia Robilay's fit. How do you calculate the volume of compound exercises when you have to write a program? For example, when you program dips, do you count it as volume for the triceps or chest or both? All right, well, more specifically with dips is the way you can do them for triceps, the way you can do them for chest. But you're gonna work triceps when you do them for chest to some extent and you're gonna work the chest when you do them for triceps to some extent. Nonetheless. That being said though, you can really make that all, or not all, but mostly chest or mostly triceps. Right, but my point is if you're doing it and if your form is doing it for chest, which you know, to be more specific, you're leaning forward more, elbows out a little bit more, squeezing at the chest. Or if you're doing it for triceps more upright, more elbow flexion and extension, squeezing the triceps, you count the volume for the body part you're trying to work. So bench press, that's shoulders, triceps, and chest. Where do I count it for chest? Barbell row, biceps, and back. Where do I count the volume for back? So there is crossover, but this is why compound exercises, someone may be thinking like, well, that doesn't make any sense, I'm working all these other body parts. Okay, this is why compound lift volume counts as more than isolation exercise volume. 10 sets of isolation exercise volume does not require the same amount of recovery. 10 sets of squats. That's 10 sets of compound lift volume. So it's not an equal one to one when it comes to counting volume. This is one place where programming experience comes into play. I can look at a workout and if I know the person, I can look at two different workouts, even if they have the exact same sets, I can say this one's gonna require more recovery than this one, so we gotta bring this volume down. Be based simply on the exercises. Some just simply tax the body more than others and your challenge with these compound lifts is really that is that dips for the triceps is gonna count as more volume than rope press downs for the triceps more demanding. So probably of all of us, I probably tracked volume probably the most or most consistently I would make the case, right? With all my competing shit. I treated actually very similar to a body fat percentage. People get so hung up on what does the machine say or this is more accurate than this or like what time? It's like whatever you do be consistent with it and really it's about where you move from there. So like, again, I always say start, do the least amount possible to listen to those change. So I start with my programming, the most basic I can with the least amount of volume that I think I need to get going in the right direction. And then as I decide to build or add volume over time, I do it incrementally from that starting point. So that starting point, it doesn't matter if I'm 12% body fat, 7% body fat, the machine said 6%, it doesn't matter. What I'm looking for is how my body is responding and then how is it to- Where you're trending? Yeah, where I'm trending from there. That's how I don't get really hung up on, well, technically that exercise works this and this. It's like, okay, here's my total squat volume, here's my total arm volume, here's it. Okay, I have a good idea of that and I'm gonna calculate it all the same. So if I calculated the first time as squats count to this category and this counts to this category, then that's how I'm going to track it going forward. And so how you add volume or take away from there, it's really about where your base is at and how you, and this also reminds me of people who ask about like, do you weigh your food before you cook it or after you cook it? It like, it doesn't matter. And however you start weighing it, we have to be consistent with this. Yeah, wherever you decide to start and to figure out your maintenance, then just be consistent with that and Bill off it, getting so hung up on the difference of chicken cooked versus chicken not cooked and how that affects the protein weight. It's like, dude, you guys are getting way, I took this to the most extreme level without ever having to do any of that stuff, but the way I did it was saying that this is my base volume that I'm doing. And then as I am progressing through this training program, I'm going to slowly, incrementally add volume until I start to see potential adverse. Like, oh, now I'm starting to reach the, which ended up happening after over a year of doing this with competing. Like I started to reach a point where I kept adding so much volume that now the achy joints were happening. I was starting to hit plateaus. I was starting to see my strength go back with it. And then I knew like, oh, it's time to scale back the other direction. So really it's about however you decide to calculate it, you just calculate it consistently because it's really how you respond to it. The big problem with, because this is not something you shouldn't pay attention to, but just don't get hung up on it like Adam's saying because here's the big issue. If everything else was exactly the same all the time, right? Your life was identical every day. Your hormones were identical every day. Your sleep was identical every day. Your food was identical every day. It was the same weather outside. Every experience you had was identical. If everything was exactly the same all the time, then it would be just as easy as volume and changing volume and change. But other stuff changes as well. And then that's gonna affect the amount of volume you can do and how the workouts affect your body. So it's never as simple as just numbers. People really screw up when they get hung up on numbers because they'll look at the numbers and they'll ignore everything else. I'm like, well, I'm supposed to add volume right now. Oh yeah, well, this says this much volume. This says that much volume. Therefore, this one's gonna produce better results. It's not like that. The number where I saw the most value in tracking volume, very similar to the same value that I found in tracking macros is becoming aware of your own patterns. So when I first started tracking volume, I didn't go, just like I do with diet. I don't go like, oh, here's my diet. I'm gonna follow. Here's my program. I'm like, let's see this is how I'm training. Let me just kind of track what I naturally do. And what I found was we all have these kind of tendencies to what to your point you're making right now. Where if you're not really tracking volume, you tend to do certain stuff where like, man, when you're really feeling motivated, you naturally add volume. And then, oh, then you go through a rough week. You're frustrated, you get to fight with your wife, miss a day, volume dips down. And then what I noticed was, oh shit, over the course of these three months, I didn't really progressively overload. I ended up just doing this. I didn't like slowly add volume over time. And I knew that when I needed to progress for show over show over show, I needed to do that. I needed to show every time I came to stage. I built more muscle. I was a bigger, better version of myself before. And so really- It wasn't a perfect linear climb though. It was trending in this. The trend is the important thing to pay attention to. Yeah, but what I found when you don't, people do this and they don't- You don't trend in any direction. Yeah, they don't trend in any direction. They're in the same spot three months later. And in that time, they had weeks or days of higher volume, but then they also had a lower volume and then they end up being in the same spot. And so really when I was tracking volume, the thing that I was most concerned about was staying consistent with, okay, if I've agreed this is the amount of volume I'm gonna train in, I can't go backwards. I'm not gonna let myself have a bad day or a low day would be this, at least getting to that volume. And then I'd slowly try in and progress it week over week or whatever. Excellent, look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our guides. We have fitness guides that can help you with exercise, muscle building, fat loss, and nutrition. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump, Adam. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the- Yeah, it was for me, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.