 The whistleblowing policy was launched in Nigeria on December 21, 2016 to encourage people to voluntarily disclose information about fraud and other forms of corruption or theft. The federal government of President Muammar Dubuari acknowledged the failure of whistleblowing to yield results saying it has lost momentum. The policy revolts the whistleblower will provide information about any financial mismanagement or tip about any stolen funds to the ministry's portal with 2.5% to 5% from the recovered funds by the Nigerian government. Now looking at corruption and large spending of government in Nigeria, does whistleblowing still exist? Joining us is the program manager African Center for Media and Information Literacy, Afriq Mill, Godwin Oniyachilem. Godwin, how are you today? I'm fine, how are you too? Fine, thank you Godwin. The whistleblowing policy that was implemented by Dubuari administration was at best and it was an insult to the Nigerian public. How would you respond to that? Well, I'll start by saying that, I mean, if I'm not going to give Dubuari administration credit for anything, I'll give them credit for introducing the whistleblowing policy. The whistleblowing policy happens to be one of the most creative strategies in Dubuari's anti-corruption fight. A number of strategies were introduced, I mean, about the whistleblowing policy happens to be the most creative one among them. And the policy was launched in December 2016 by the Dubuari administration through the federal Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Finance, then Mrs. Kemi Adiyachilem. When the policy was initially introduced, I mean, it caught on among the people, it was great, people were interested, I mean, said it. That was the first time the Nigerian people were being invited to join the fight against corruption. It has never happened. No government has ever brought the people into the fight against corruption. And Dubuari government thought that, I mean, they needed the people because they realized that corruption cannot be fought alone by the governments who they must involve the people. And that was the reason the whistleblowing policy was introduced. And it caught on very well. It started in Godwin. Like in the wildfire. Godwin. I can get you. Some of us for more than a decade, for more than a decade, agitated for the proper submission of an executive bill to the National Assembly for a whistleblowing law to come into effect. Some listening to you now may think you are being unduly, unduly leaning to the Buwari administration because President Buwari, apart from the federal minister of finance, had an attorney general who sat in his office for eight years and did not deem it fit to submit an executive bill to the legislature for that policy that the average Nigerian was ready to engage with to become law that wasted our time and indeed made a mess of the policy and ultimately made Nigerians now to further be disillusioned if such a very positive law that we've seen in other jurisdictions work if it were to be submitted to the legislature now. How would you respond to that? I think I agree with you to some extent but I would not agree with you to the extent that it's a hopeless law. It's, I'm sorry, it's a hopeless, there's no law yet, it's still a policy. It's one thing I wouldn't, I would discredit the Buwari government for was the fact that I mean the government that had the good sense to introduce that policy or to have also followed up with an executive bill, I totally agree with you and it stems from the lack of political will to fight corruption. If there was the will to really fight corruption by the Buwari administration, I think it would have gone on to follow up that whistleblower policy with an executive bill and ensure that that bill was passed before the HTR tenure expired. Yeah, to that extent, I think I agree with you that it was a failure on the apart, not to ensure that. Godwin, I think alone the law, you know, so I think it was of the political will of the administration to really fight corruption and we could not see it, we could all see that at the end of the day the Buwari government didn't fight corruption, you know, it just came and then you know, it ended up really, it's ironic that we seem to agree but maybe, just maybe I am sounding more like an average Nigerian an average disillusioned Nigerian who is so disappointed at the missed opportunity of the Buwari administration. I guess, you know, I guess somebody like who is a professional who knows how sometimes it's tough for things to move from non-existence to inquate, the inquate existence we add under Buwari of the policy maybe you are at least a bit glad but I am telling you now that to an average educated Nigerian many are feeling insulted that Buwari's administration practically practically abused their senses by showing them or indicating that it wanted to fight corruption but ended up leaving a sloppy policy and you know too that there is a major difference between policy and law but we seem to agree but you seem to be a bit very lenient with the administration maybe because you were positively a number that the policy came into being Yes, I mean to that, I think it was better than not having that policy if we didn't have that policy, I didn't know what we would be talking about now there would be no advocacy for, at least that policy has done two things now one, it has challenged the culture of silence among the citizens of this country so that policy has come out to say that you don't have to keep quiet when you observe wrongdoing or corruption around you the second thing the policy has done to the Nigerian people is to challenge that culture of acquiescence the culture of agreeing with wrongdoing as if it is legitimate practices that seem to make wrong practices that seem to make wrongdoing legitimate that culture is challenging it, it says that you can't keep quiet now at least we have that but I think it's painful that we don't have a law yet but we are driving towards that there is an executive bill already which was approved by FEC in December last year so we were thinking that before the Wari government winds up in May 2029 it would have submitted that to the National Assembly Minister Oye Chalam let me chase let me chase one of the most important reasons that you have submitted in this short program one of the most important reasons I have designed from your point is the fact that the policy properly implemented initially the policy was quite well engaged by Nigerians and properly implemented that policy could have democratized the fight against corruption would have saved the state a lot of the wastefulness that we use to pretend to be fighting corruption would have brought in enormous amount of revenue to the commonwealth back from those who are stalling it would have incentivized would have incentivized activism from the general public so look at all the pockets of opportunities that the misapplication of that policy seem to have squandered now and yet somebody played penality to throwing and you seem to be praising that player that after all he handed Jesse how about penality to throwing now penality to throwing I think that we missing something I can hear you I can hear you I think that we missing something where I also agree with you that there is full implementation of the policy you know the policy is to decide now in the federal ministry of finance in a unit called the presidential initiative on continuous audit so that unit is the one that manages the whistleblowing policy they are not funded they are not they are not they are not they are not they are not they are not mobilized in method even if even when you are persecuted for making disclosures or corrupt practices in your various other institutions are entitled to protection that's that's unfortunately unfortunately alone the network is is as it is we may go for a show what did that have who is being persecuted okay go ahead go ahead wrap it up wrap it up yes yes yes I am saying that the policy is bounded by pika it's in the federal ministry of finance a unit in the federal ministry of presidential initiative on continuous audit they are the managers of the policy so they are not funded they are not trained Mr. Godwin Mr. Godwin thank you so much I think you must be a very generous marker I would have loved to be your student because all your students will be getting a plus plus even when when they are sloppy or not dissing because you seem to be a generous awarder of marks it's been a pleasure my brother we will do this another time time is so so against us thank you we want to thank you for this thank you so much thank you so much thank you