 Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners, thanks to all of you including Justin Zellers, Pepper Geesey and Eric Holm. Coming up on DTNS, Netflix has a change of heart. Open AI gets more open about Dolly too and Quinn Nelson from Snazzy Labs explains why the M1 Mac might, might be the best gaming laptop out there. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, July 20th, 2022. That's a lot of 20s. In Los Angeles I'm Tom Merritt. From Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. Joining us the host of Snazzy Labs, Quinn Nelson, welcome. Hello. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be on. I'm not in an exotic place like you guys, but that's alright. Where are you? I'm in Salt Lake City. That's quite exotic. This is our second Salt Lake City person in a row too. Hey, you know what? Good things happen in news, they say. Well, let's start with a few tech things you should know. It seems like just yesterday we were talking about how younger folks prefer using TikTok and Instagram over Google search to find places nearby. That's because we actually talked about it yesterday on Thursday, which was also yesterday, Thursday, which was Tuesday. That's what I meant to say. Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg announced a new searchable and dynamic map feature on Instagram. So what's all kind of getting, it's happening, letting users explore popular tagged locations around them, filter location results by categories like restaurants and cafes, beauty salons. Instagram's map experience has up until now only included posts. You might have said, well, they already had maps, right? Yes. But the update now lets users search the map itself for not only posts, but stories, guides and hashtags. But they don't use maps. Wait, that wasn't the point of that story. I think I'm misinterpreted. According to data from Sensor Tower, B Real has hit number one among free apps in Apple's US App Store. Sensor Tower also reports that about 35% of B Real users are in the US, followed by the UK with 17% and 10% in the home market of France. The app has been installed more than 20 million times. If you're unaware, B Real is the one that just lets you post once a day. And the idea is it will tell you when to post and give you two minutes to be real about what's happening in your life. Microsoft launched a little social app in its productivity chat and a little voice chat in its gaming app. Viva Engage is an app inside Teams that encourages work-based social networking for all Microsoft 365 commercial customers. It includes a news feed like storyline section and stories for ephemeral content. Viva Engage will replace Yammer communities for Teams, but the Yammer platform will continue to be available. Content created on Viva Exchange will be viewable on Yammer and vice versa. Meanwhile, Discord voice calls are coming to the Xbox mobile app. Once those are linked, the calls can be connected to your Xbox One or series console available now for Xbox insiders. At the Alexa Live Developer Conference, now I triggered mine. Sorry, apologies for that. Amazon announced several new changes to how its voice assistant works. Developers will now be able to create routines for users. You'll still be able to create your own routines. But as an example, Jaguar Land Rover is offering a good night routine pre-made for you. If you execute it, it will lock your car, check the charge and fuel levels and turn on Guardian mode. Universal Commands is another feature Amazon announced. It will pass along a command. If Amazon can handle it, but the voice assistant you're talking to can't. This is if you've got more than one voice assistant on a device. For example, the Verge pointed out Skullcandy headphones. You could say, hey, Skullcandy set a timer, and it would pass that on to Amazon because the headphones themselves don't have timer functionality, but Amazon does. This is getting interesting. Google began publicly testing smart glasses based on the project it announced at this year's Google IO conference. The glasses use built-in cameras to recognize objects in an environment using local AI, but don't take photos or videos. Initial tests will focus on use cases around translation, transcription, visual search and navigation. Google began testing with dozens of pairs in the field, but will ramp up to several hundred throughout 2022. It's only been a couple months since IO though. Usually they're supposed to wait a few years, you know, before they take these wild concepts and put them in the actual field. That's interesting. Alright, let's talk about Netflix. Big news out of Netflix's earnings report on Tuesday was that it lost 970,000 subscribers and that that was good news. It's Netflix's second quarterly drop. It's largest yet, but it was also half of what either Netflix or analysts had expected. And most of that drop was domestic. Netflix fell by 1.3 million in the US and Canada. They also fell about 770,000 in Europe and West Asia, but they gained around a million in Asia Pacific while staying essentially flat everywhere else. Even with the subscriber decline, companies revenue was up 8.6% over last year. And as for this current quarter, Netflix is back to projecting a gain. They think they're going to get a million new subscribers in the current three month period. But as always, the part that matters most to us is those little details. On Tuesday show, we talked about the tests that are going on in Latin America to combat account sharing. Netflix plans to launch one of its plans worldwide sometime next year. Netflix also said it will launch its advertising supported tiers and markets where ad spending is significant, starting in early 2023. The company previously to hope to launch new plans by the end of the year. It seemed like they were going pretty quickly, a little bit delayed. Netflix keeps insisting that its way of doing ads will be fundamentally different than linear TV. Yeah, so they're probably not just going to roll interstitials is what that means. But who knows what else it means. One new bit of info on those ad supported tiers is that not all the content you can get on ad free Netflix will be available because of licensing. Netflix can play ads along with anything it owns itself. And anything where the license doesn't stop it from doing that. But not all the licenses allow that. And even some of the shows that they call Netflix originals may have restrictions if they're made by somebody else. For instance, TechCrunch points out that Warner Brothers owns the licensing to you. Universal owns the licensing of Russian doll and Sony produces the crown and Cobra Kai. And coincidentally, the Wall Street Journal reports that Netflix is in talks with each of those three companies about new deals. Co CEO Ted Serendot said that Netflix quote will clear some content but certainly not all of it by the time the new tiers launch but also added the vast majority of what people watch on Netflix we can include in the ad supported tier but it won't be one to one. Another change is Netflix talking about radiance because it did not use to the company cited a Nielsen's estimate that Netflix made up 7.7% of all US TV viewing in June. That's 1.334 trillion minutes making Netflix the most viewed TV service in the US. Well ahead of second place CBS, which has 753 billion minutes. CBS is the number one broadcast network in the US right now. So interesting comparison. Co CEO Reed Hastings said it's definitely the end of linear TV over the next five to 10 years. Hastings likes to say something like that, doesn't he? I don't know if he's gonna be right about five to 10 years, but he's probably right. He's probably close to right. Anyway, the company also addressed suggestions that it might do better if it released episodes on a weekly schedule like most other outlets do. Netflix said it likes the freedom of not having to do things like theatrical releases and it likes letting customers choose how to watch a series. So it's going to keep flaunting those norms because it considers those to be quote a significant long term business advantage. Interesting to see Netflix who has been the leader in streaming from the get go face the headwinds first Quinn as a consumer of television content. How does that? How do you any of this strike you? It surprises me and it doesn't. I've been a Netflix subscriber for years. While I have not yet canceled, it's more tempting because the price continues to go up and up and up. And the content that I'm personally attracted to from Netflix is decreasing. I feel like most of their good series, at least the ones that I'm interested in tend to get pretty short runs or they get canceled at kind of last notice. And now that bigger companies are getting, I shouldn't say bigger companies, but more historically successful companies at this like HBO are getting into the game. It just it makes it that much trickier for them to compete. Sarah. Well, yeah, I the the ad supported model is intriguing to me because I keep that, you know, this is this is one of these situations where it's like, I don't see it until someone shows it to me and then I go, Oh, that's a good idea. I mean, besides like, horrible product placement and every new original series or movie that Netflix puts out, I don't totally understand how varying away from the linear TV model of ads. I just don't see it yet. I'm sure Netflix has thought about it a lot. And that's probably why that's not something that they're ready to roll up by the end of this year. But but yeah, that is that, you know, that's something that people aren't used to Netflix is, you know, like you said, Quinn, I mean, a lot of people have been Netflix subscribers for many, many years. I mean, even if you weren't in the DVD days, I wasn't, you know, I was, it was, you know, streaming only really still that was a long time ago. Netflix has seen a lot of changes since then. And at one point, Netflix was like the only player in the game. And they're quite a few now. So sure there's competition. Sure, Netflix had some some subscriber bleed out, but not as bad as as the company thought it would be. So that was good news. I mean, it was, you kind of look at it on its face, you go, Oh, they lost a lot of subscribers. But well, you know, if they thought they were going to lose more than twice that, and they didn't, that actually is good news. But I, you know, the weekly schedule thing, I go back and forth. Some shows, I think it's really show by show, person by person, of course, there are certain shows where I like the suspense of waiting, you know, throughout a season, I like being like, Okay, it's Sunday night. I've been waiting since last Sunday, because I really like the show. At the same time, there are certain shows that I like so much that binging them over a weekend is super fun. And I applaud Netflix for letting me do that. I don't know. I Netflix has always tried a lot of stuff. I mean, remember quickster, that didn't work out well, but they still had the gumption to try it briefly. Yeah. I think the bottom line is that Netflix and CBS being the two most watched in the US is very apropos, because what's happening to Netflix happened to CBS. It also happened ABC and NBC, which is they were the dominant way to watch television until cable television rose up. And suddenly all these niche cable networks, right? Music television arts and entertainment started to eat away because they were brands that you could understand. Oh, if I want music, I go to MTV. And the broadcast networks had to reorganize themselves. They couldn't be the home of all the sports you could watch because ESPN existed. So they had to come up with a new way to adapt to be mainstream while fending off these niche attacks. And they did. That's why CBS is the most watched network outside of Netflix, because they figured that out. Netflix has to figure that out. Netflix has to address Quinn's feeling of I just don't know if there's anything for me on Netflix right now. The way that broadcast networks had to address that feeling to cable subscribers back in the 1980s. Finally, Netflix announced it had acquired Australia's Animal Logic Animation Studio, which has made films like Happy Feet, the Lego Movie and more. So expect some animated movies coming at more of them. They already partnered with Animal Logic. Now they own them. So you're going to get even more of them. Alright, let's talk about art, specifically AI art. Open AI announced in a blog post, it's making its image generating AI system Dolly to more widely available, expediting access for wait listed customers. I am one of them with the goal of reaching around 1 million people within the next few weeks, previously free to use Dolly to will move to a credits model that gives you 200 images for your first month, and then 60 images every month thereafter. Now if you're saying, well, I need more than 60 additional packs of 460 images would cost $15. Keep in mind, each generation uses four images and edits and variations use three. So it does add up. Open AI says the artist will also be able to apply for subsidized access. And here's another big change. Starting today, Open AI will give users full usage rights to commercialize the images that they create with Dolly to so that would be reprinting or selling or making merchandise out of your creative artwork. And that goes back to when Dolly to was announced in April. Back then it had just passed the 100,000 user threshold. Open AI says mitigating bias and toxicity in Dolly to's evolving generations and policies governing images created by the system is what made the wider availability possible. They weren't willing to just unleash it on everybody until they felt like they had that fairly well under control. For example, Dolly now uses a technique to generate images of people that more accurately reflects the diversity of the world's population. If it gets a prompt describing a person with an unspecified race or gender, Open AI says it's also now rejecting image uploads because remember, you can upload to edit an image with text. It's rejecting uploads that contain realistic faces or attempts to create the likeness of a public figure. Dolly to already tries to avoid creating images that aren't G rated or have anything like self harm or hateful symbols or illegal activity in them. And Open AI researchers note in an academic paper called Risks and Limitations that an open source in implementation of Dolly could be trained to do stuff like make stereotypical assumptions based on terms like CEO or lawyer or something like that. So they're trying to guard against that. Quinn, I don't know how much you've played with the mini version of Dolly. We had some fun with us on DTNS a few weeks back. I find the story just incredibly fascinating because as the world starts to understand what these, you know, these these systems are capable of. And some of the Dolly to imagery is so pro and beautiful that it's just it's like a mind melt for me to be like, I just can't believe it did that, you know, based on just maybe some keywords or, you know, a little a small bit of training from from the user themselves. Have you had what are your thoughts on this? Yeah, I've played with Dolly mini as well as a couple of the other alternatives that existed. There's there's been several that have been around for a few years. Obviously, the images that come from Dolly to or kind of a step above. And they really are pretty spectacular. I do think that there is a bit of skill that's involved in creating the images because of the way that you have to structure the prompts. Because it's kind of a garbage in garbage out scenario where if you don't know what to kind of queue for, then you end up getting images that are not really that workable. And so I think it is kind of beautiful that it's got this kind of connection between human and AI. As for its potential kind of futures as an as an entity and as a business, I think this is I mean, these are reasonable obvious steps to take. And I think they're doing them in good faith. I do kind of wonder beyond Oh, look at this kind of neat little image I made, what impact it will have on society or how it will become a sustainable platform that, you know, sticks around for more than a couple years. But it's certainly interesting and a lot of fun to play with. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I imagine if this had come out in 2012, instead of 2022, they would have just posted it with limits, right? They would have posted it with the credit limits and said, go at it. But over time, companies have learned that that is a way to have unforeseen consequences bring you down. So I think it's fascinating to watch the evolution of rollouts of these sort of things where open AI it's open is right in the name is being very cautious about opening it up for everyone to use. And I'm sure they won't get it perfect. But I think what they're gambling is that if they're upfront about saying we're being careful, we're going slow, this is what we're doing, that hopefully the missteps that do show up will allow them to have a little bit of credit with people and say, we're going to now fix that because we wouldn't have found it until we had this many people using it. The commercializing of all this is another, you know, I'll be interested to see how this goes. I'm sure that there'll be plenty of t-shirts that are made with Dolly artwork that, you know, end up being popular because they are for whatever reason, maybe it's the artist or maybe it's just the image or, you know, some combination of the two. I wonder if we start getting into that territory and a lot of people will take advantage of this is okay. Well, let's say an image starts to become problematic. It's is it problematic before somebody puts it on a t-shirt, you know, or on a mug or otherwise, you know, asks people to, you know, to buy it and it comes back to like, well, it's that Dolly too program. That's, you know, that you never should have been unleashed, you know, the bad actors, you know, have too much of this. I know that OpenAI is doing, I think a really good job of saying, okay, we're going to roll this out slowly and take a lot of notes and, you know, intervene as much as possible so that this doesn't turn into a tool that just ends up being, you know, a toxic wasteland, but you can't get rid of all of that stuff. So yeah, there's a lot of questions yet to be answered. Yeah, I mean, it's brave of them to go first with that. It is. In today's blog post, OpenAI said, expanding access is an important part of our deploying AI systems responsibly, because it allows us to learn more about real world use and continue to iterate on our safety systems. So, you know, I think they're, they're doing the right thing here. But as for similar limitations in the space, you might recall, Google recently announced it wouldn't release Imogen to the public. That's its own AI generating model because of the current risks of misuse. And Meta's recently announced Make-A-Scene, which is an art focused image generating system, has limited access to what the company deems prominent AI artists. So not me. Well, folks, it's special guest week here on DTNS. Quinn is one of them. If you like what you're hearing on the show, spread the word. Thank Quinn on Twitter or TikTok or YouTube or wherever you do your thanking and tell friends and family to watch or listen to Daily Tech News show, because we've got great folks on all this week. We've reported on all the praise heaped on Apple's new M1-powered MacBook line, well deserved by the benchmarks. It's even good when it's translating x86 to arm instructions. It's faster than a lot of x86 machines it replace. In fact, Quinn, you made a video saying that Apple might have accidentally made the best gaming notebook on the market. I thought it was fun because in the video, you go through what you would expect, which is I'm going to try to run some Windows games. And you tell us that, well, running in parallels isn't perfect. It isn't better than a Windows laptop and running in wine through crossover. Well, it's not really an acceptable replacement for a Windows laptop. So what gives? What are you saying about M1 being a gaming laptop here? Yeah, I mean, if you look at how Macs have traditionally been able to run games, how most people would choose to run them was just through boot camp, right? But that's no longer an option. And so you're really it comes down to virtualization. And the performance in those sections, there are a lot of hiccups. When you can get a game to work, it's shocking how good it is because everything would indicate that it's going to be a disaster. You look at, for example, we played the Witcher 3 and that was something that this is an x86 Windows binary that's running. It's being virtualized by Windows ARM, which is being virtualized by parallels inside of the Mac, which DirectX is being virtualized into into metal. And so it's just there's so many different layers to this onion that by the time you get to the end, you're like, this has got to be abysmal. And it in some cases is actually playable. And so the question becomes, well, what could you do with such a machine if it didn't have all of this crap that it had dredged through to get to a workable play state? And there's really three categories, if you ask me, where new Macs can excel at gaming. The first and most obvious one is by playing Apple Arcade and iOS titles, right? Because you've got that store available to you that they're available. And as, you know, the iPhone and the iPad get more advanced, more sophisticated games are coming to the platform. And Apple Arcade is great because one of the requirements to be on Apple Arcade is that all games support all platforms. And so you'll find that you can actually play some some fairly, you know, beautiful indie games on the Mac, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they're difficult to run. I mean, they're running on phones that are years and years old, right? So the next obvious step would be if you can't virtualize windows, maybe you can emulate something less advanced. And so emulation on the the new Macs is actually fantastic. Now that enters into a legal gray area very quickly. But there are there's XEMU, which is an Xbox emulator. There's Dolphin, which has long been known as one of the best we and Gamecube emulators. And those will play back games fantastically. Even the base model MacBook Pro played, for example, an unnamed Nintendo game with a little man in a red hat flying around a galaxy. It's it's him. Yeah, right. It was able to play that at 4k in 60 frames per second. Nice, fantastically. I mean, it looks incredible. And so the question becomes, well, what if you could run titles that were designed and built for the Mac on the Mac? And the problem is, is that those don't really exist. Because the Mac has never been a place where gaming has been much of a thing. And so even though many games are designed in unity and unreal and have export functions to create macOS binaries that generally work OK, developers just don't do it because they have to debug and they have to provide support for platforms that they're not familiar with and or a platform that has frankly very, very little market share. And so it's never been something that's happened because it hasn't been worthwhile. We did a video back in 2017, I believe, running Steam VR on the Mac when Apple and Valve partnered up on that to bring it to Final Cut Pro. And there were games that theoretically could run, but just none of them were available. So we reached out to a bunch of game devs and said, Hey, you're building these in unity, you're building these in unreal. Can you just export though? Can you just make a Mac binary one click? Don't debug anything. Just let's see how workable it is. And we got three or four games that played pretty well. But that was back in an era when the hardware was effectively the same, right? Yeah, yeah. So now that it's much different, there's really only a few games that have been that we've been able to test this on. There's Dirt Rally, Tomb Raider and Planet Coaster. Those are three games that we've that we kind of benchmarked in our testing. And what's interesting about them is they are all x86 binaries. They're running through Rosetta, right? So these are not compiled for our native to the M1. Yeah, yeah, right. But they are compiled to run on the Metal Graphics API. And in Dirt Rally, we were playing that game at 4k Ultra on the M1 Max MacBooks at more than 100 frames per second, which was almost double that of competing Nvidia 2070 Super Max-Q SPECT laptop. The 30 series laptops have gotten quite a bit better on the Nvidia side. And so we tried Tomb Raider in 4k at Ultra and we were getting about 80ish frames per second. And that was pretty comparable to an Nvidia 3070 in a laptop, which is a much hotter, much larger chip. And as we moved to Planet Coaster, a game that was fairly CPU heavy, Apple Silicon really flexed its muscles and the performance was frankly better than I've seen on almost any PC, certainly laptop, but even desktop. So that's where things get potentially exciting is this hardware is capable. And there is one title, literally one, that you can go out and buy today. It's in the App Store. And not only is it running on metal, but it's compiled specifically for Apple Silicon. And that is the remake of Mist, the classic kind of Mac game. And the performance is excellent. It's as good as a laptop that I say this in my video that only costs several hundred dollars less, which sounds like a jab. But it's not because Apple has historically been not even in the same price bracket when it comes to gaming their hardware that they had released, you know, historically did not have very good video performance. And when you compare it dollar per dollar, it was it was an abysmal value. And now the fact that it's even close is impressive. But I would go so far as to say that even if the performance doesn't quite get to where many of the best gaming laptops are on the PC side, it doesn't matter because the Mac has things that are not available literally anywhere else. Yeah, it's just a matter of getting the games. I get what you're saying now, which is they made the best gaming laptop. They just didn't create all the on ramps, you know, to make it easy for developers to transport it over there. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, the 3070 laptops that have been coming out, the total package TDP, and those are a lot more efficient than the prior generation. These are PC laptops that are drying in excess of 250 watts TDP of energy. They're incredibly hot. They're very loud and noisy. And the MacBook Pro is not. I mean, it's dead silent and its power is so low that it can run for literally hours longer than the closest competing PC laptop. It's got excellent speakers, which are never found on PC gaming laptops. And the display is is excellent. Not only is it higher resolution than most of the other competing PC displays, but it's it's 120 frames per second refresh. So very, very quick, thanks to promotion and it's mini LED. It's it's the best laptop display period. And so to see all of that available in a price point that's only marginally more expensive than the best PC gaming laptops is really exciting. The downside is that we come back to Apple and software. And I don't know that that's going to change. I mean, if you look at the most recent keynote with the M2 release, they talked about how Resident Evil Village and No Man's Sky were coming to Apple Silicon this year. But that's been a joint effort that they've made with individual game studios. And the reality is that there's just not the market share to make those ports worth it for almost anyone. Certainly not large game companies, but even indie devs. I mean, you're you're kind of pushing the buttons. And it really makes me ask the question, does Apple need to start acquiring gaming companies to make this happen on the Mac if they want to? Because the people don't realize and are one unwilling to admit that Apple has an enormous hold on the gaming market, just not the console kind of PC gaming market. In fact, in 2018, the Wall Street Journal reported that Apple had recorded an eight point eight billion dollar net profit in that fiscal year, which was more than Sony, Microsoft, Activision and Nintendo combined. So Apple is just making an extraordinary amount of money on the App Store. And I think because of that, haven't really cared to push into a much more competitive kind of triple A gaming market. But they now have the hardware to do that where previously they didn't. Yeah. And so it's just a matter of whether they'll ever get the desire to do it when they've got that gravy train of mobile. That's way easier to compete in. Yeah. Oh, totally. It's a very good point. I think they'll have to acquire companies because you look at Microsoft, Microsoft recently purchased Activision Blizzard. They purchased Zenimax, which owned Bethesda a couple of years ago. Sony purchased Bungie of Halo fame, which was previously on a competing company. You know, so for good or bad, there is consolidation in the gaming market going all the way up to the top. And Apple's kind of just sitting on the sidelines saying, Hey, you guys, we've got these really good graphics APIs and our hardware is nice. It's not going to compel anyone to come to the platform. Well, folks, if you've got ideas for what you would like to see Apple do, email us feedback at Daily Tech News Show dot com. Before we get out of here, let's check a couple of those emails from the mail bag, Sarah. Yeah. Scott wrote in about our Monday show with with Jack and we were talking about the term hacker and what that means is a good as a bad. Scott says, we shouldn't let inertia lead to a default win for the misuse of terms. I stand by hacker as not being intrinsically a bad term. And those who feel the same way need to dig in and resist by computer by continuing to use the term and its proper positive context as well. We vote for the language future we desire. Yeah, I don't know if I feel like it's as important as some other things that you might need to dig in and resist for, but I get where I get where Scott's coming from. And I think Jack, Jack helped, you know, fortify me for the good fight there. Tony in Albany, Oregon, said I just finished Friday's episode as for drone delivery, I think more likely than accident from a faulty drone is less likely than someone taking one down from the ground as an FAA part 107 licensed drone operator for part time real estate photography. I've had people throw objects at my drone on at least two occasions. A delivery drone carrying heavier objects has even more potential for causing harm or property damage if it falls out of the sky. I know this has come up before, but just thought I'd mentioned it again. There are a lot of people out there who hate drones for one reason or another. Package theft isn't the only reason people could attack these two times is not bad. I'll be honest, that's a low incidence, but I'm sure it didn't feel low when it happened to your drone. So I totally get where you're coming from, Tony. Well, thanks for the emails, everybody. Keep them coming. Feedback at daily tech new show dot com. We love to know what's on your mind. Something that we talked about peak peak your interest or spark a conversation you like to keep going. Do send it our way. Also, thanks to Quinn Nelson for being with us today. Quinn, such a pleasure to have you. Let folks know where they can find you on the Nets. Well, thanks for having me on. You can find me at youtube.com slash snazzy and on all the socials at snazzy Q. It's a good that's a good handle snazzy Q. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Also good are brand new bosses. Boy, do they make our day today. Simon and hardwired spelled very leady, lead speaky. They just started back at us on Patreon. So thank you to Simon and thank you to hardwired. Yeah, big thanks to both of them and a special thanks with a four for hardwired and a seven for the tea. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's because we're lead. There's a longer version of the show called Good Day Internet, a.k.a. GDI available at patreon.com slash DTNS and starts right after we wrap up here. But just a reminder, we're live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern twenty hundred UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live and we're back doing it all again tomorrow talking about how to get started in 3D printing with Joel Telling joining us. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frogpants network. Get more at frogpants.com Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.