 The National Broadcasting Company in conjunction with the Fund for Adult Education presents Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. In Europe, Christianity has been intimately united to the powers of the earth. Those powers are now in decay, and religion is as it were buried under their ruins. The living body of religion has been bound down to the dead corpse of superannuated policy. But the Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other. Despotism may govern without faith, but liberty cannot. For what can be done with the people who are their own masters if they are not submissive to the deity? The Cement of Democracy. A Study in American Religion. Item 6 in the series Democracy in America, prepared by the Division of General Education of New York University under the direction of George Probst, American historian. A series designed to bring to life the America of 1831 as recorded by Alexis de Tocqueville, and so to illuminate the image of democracy itself. A Study in American Religion. The Cement of Democracy. It must never be forgotten that religion gave birth to Anglo-American society. In the United States in 1831, religion has as it were laid down its own limits. Religious institutions have remained wholly distinct from political institutions, so that former laws have been easily changed while former belief has remained unshaken. In the United States, Christianity is an established fact, but Christian sects are infinitely diversified and infinitely tolerant. This struck us very forcibly on the Sunday boomer and I spent in the great prison of Sing Sing, where the warden showed us the chapel. I guess we're a little late for the sermon. Looks as if the preacher's just delivered it. What sect is the preacher? No, I don't rightly know just who was up this Sunday. There was some talk of a Presbyterian, but maybe it was one of the Methodists. Tell you this though, we have trouble getting good chaplains out here at the prison. But why is that? Don't pay enough, I guess. Even the preacher's got to live, you know. Do all the Methodists go to church one Sunday and all the Presbyterians the next and so on? No, no, no. All the men go every Sunday. We just let each of the preachers talk to them in turn. It all works out very well just so long as they stick to general morality and don't go pushing dogmas too far. But this is astounding. Boomer, do you hear what this gentleman is telling us? What is he telling us? That it makes no difference what sect the minister represents. So long as he gives them general Christian morality. To criminals then, there is no one church that is the true faith. And you'll find the same outside the walls. As far as religion goes, you'll find a lot of toleration over here. A lot of toleration. Well, Tocqueville, I should very much like to know how a lively and sincere faith can get on with such a perfect toleration. How can one have equal respect for religions whose dogmas differ? What real influence on the moral conduct of these Americans can be exercised by this religious spirit whose outward manifestations are so noticeable? Well, the extreme religious tolerance is due to the very multiplicity of sects. If there were only two, they might cut each other's throats, but no sect having the majority all have need of tolerance. But might it not be that this outward show of religion has more breadth in it than depth? Might not all these sects compete with one another in the minute observance of their cults and of the moral principles which religion commands? Might they not compete, Tocqueville? I should think they sometimes do. Then perhaps some of the religious zeal is due to conceit and emulation rather than to conviction of the truth. No, that I do not believe. Frankly, I consider the United States one of the most religious countries that I have ever encountered. Consider how zealously they observe their Sunday. In the United States on the seventh day of every week, the trading and working life of the nation seems suspended. All noises cease. A deep tranquility succeeds the turmoil of the week. On this day, the centers of trade are deserted. Every member of the community, accompanied by his children, goes to church, where he listens to a strange language which would seem unsuited to his ear. He is told of the countless evils caused by pride and covetousness. He is reminded of the necessity of checking his desires, of the final pleasures that belong to virtue alone, and of the true happiness that attends it. How silent New York is. How empty. The streets are deserted. You can see that Sunday is very different from weekdays. Listen, here comes a carriage. You can hear it. There it goes across the square. No, it's being stopped. How very odd. That the man in the checkered recruit is stopping it and turning it back. What can be going on? Let us by all means hurry over and find out. Well, I don't know. The service should be out in about 15 minutes. Then you can go through here. Well, leave the horse around for me, will you? Happy to oblige. Good morning, gentlemen. Good morning, sir. Why are you all turning back? Carriages? You, gentlemen, from foreign parts? We offer France. Well, that accounts for it. What I'm doing here, gentlemen, is protecting the worshipers in that church over there from being disturbed by passing carriages. It's my turn to do this for the church this Sunday. How unusual. You're wrong there. In some neighborhoods, it's quite the regular thing to ask people not to drive past during divine service. Why, the religious severity of Philadelphia is so great that they put up chains across the streets on a Sunday to prevent horses and carriages from passing. And in Massachusetts, they used to put you in jail for traveling on a Sunday. New York, too? We have only been here a few weeks, but we have noticed that your people invariably make a point of attending some church service. No, you don't have that straight. Go down and take a look at the Hoboken Ferries. Every single Sunday, you'll find 10,000 people going over to the country for a breath of fresh air and a sight of green fields. Every Sunday, out they go to Harlem, too. And in the evening, you'll see the folks coming back from the woods and fields of Harlem all laden down with green boughs and bunches of flowers. Lovely sight. You see, Sunday is probably the only day the working man has a chance to take his family and wife out for an airing. Well, you will never make a man who labors all week spend all day Sunday thinking. In other words, Americans are not as conscientious in Sunday observance as we had thought. Oh, no, no. It would be a great mistake to think that. Heard of what they call the night-blooming serious, it's a flower. You wait years for it to open. Well, there's one near here. Last year it opened, but a chance to be on a Sunday evening and a lot of people wouldn't go to see it. Conscientious scruples. The sentiments do them credit. How do you make that out? If there's anything wrong in coming out on a Sunday, I should have thought the flower might have known about it. May I inquire what church you gentlemen belong to? We are home in Catholics. Well, we have plenty over here. We have everything. Any kind of religion you want. Just the other day I was in what they call a revival meeting right here in the state of New York. 40 days and 40 nights, relays of ministers kept it going. Over here gentlemen, you'll find any kind of religion you want. Oh, I see they're coming out of church now. Good day gentlemen. Hope I've been of some assistance to you. To be well received in society, it is indispensable necessary to declare that you belong to someone of the regular sex. Now, the Methodists are considered as the most pious. The Presbyterians is the most powerful. The Episcopalians and the Catholics is the most gentile. The Universalists the most liberal. The Swedenborgians the most musical. The Unitarians the most enlightened. The Quakers the most amiable. The Dancing Shakers the most amusing. And the Jews the most interesting. I know a respectable family where one is a Methodist, one the Presbyterian and a third a Universalist. The religious state of this people is perhaps the most curious thing to examine in America. It's incredible to see the infinite number of subdivisions into which the sects in America have split. It may fairly be believed that a certain number of Americans pursue a particular form of worship from habit more than from conviction. In the United States in spite of the separation of church and state the sovereign authority is religious and consequently hypocrisy must be common. But there is no country in the world where the Christian religion particularly the Old Testament retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America. I never saw or read of any other country where religion has a strong hold upon the ladies. In Washington the Presbyterian ladies go to church three times every Sunday. Episcopalian and Catholic churches are filled with elegantly dressed females and each of course acts upon the universally recognized national principle that each and every one has a right to choose a creed and mode of worship for herself. The religious and anti-religious instincts which can exist in man are developing here in perfect liberty. Now we often remarked that the American clergy in general not even accepting those who do not admit religious liberty are all in favor of civil freedom. During our visit we spoke to many men of the church. Father Richard for example in the frontier territory of Michigan was perhaps not used to interested inquiry. It is very good of you Father Richard to tell us about your work. I am only glad that you are interested. I am so used to indifference. Indifference Father? But the people of Detroit sent you to Congress to represent the Michigan territory. But not the Catholics. The Protestants. How could they have elected a Catholic priest if they were not indifferent to religion? Beaumont and I have noticed an extreme tolerance in American religion. An extreme indifference you mean nobody asks what religion you belong to they only ask what you can do. And after all we know her all this leads. For the life of me Father I don't see where. To deism, to natural religion, religious rationalism, skeptical of revelation and contemptuous of dogma. That is one alternative. The other of course is Catholicism. But don't take my word for it. See what the other priests have to say. See if they don't agree with me. It is very good of you Father Power to receive us with such cordiality. I am very happy to be of service to you gentlemen. Another glass of wine. Thank you so much. Thank you. You know it's a very odd thing Father Power while we were at the service we almost imagined ourselves back in France. Tocqueville here in fact spoke to one of his neighbors in French and I think very much surprised him. But when you came to preach your admirable sermon we knew at once that we were in America and not in France and not only because you were speaking in English. What did I say that seemed to you so remarkably American? It was not what you said perhaps so much as what you did not say. You seem to have no prejudice whatsoever against Republican institutions. Certainly not. Do you think the support of the civil power is useful to religion? On the contrary. I am profoundly convinced that it is harmful. I know that the majority of the Catholic priests in Europe have a contrary belief. I understand their point of view. They distrust the spirit of liberty whose first efforts have been directed against them. Having besides always lived under the sway of monarchical institutions which protected them they are naturally led to regret the loss of that protection. They are therefore victims of an inevitable error. If they could live in this country they would not be long in changing their opinions. All religious beliefs are on the same footing here. The government neither sustains nor persecutes anyone and doubtless there is not a country in the world where the Catholic religion counts adherence more fervent and proselytes more numerous. I repeat the less religion and its ministers are mixed with civil government the less part they will take in political dissensions and the more power religious ideas will gain. In France the church has of course been in opposition to republicanism. Aha! Over here there is such a thing as the separation of church and state. Several of the states have it written into their constitutions. New York states one of them. Let's see how does it go. And whereas the ministers of the gospel are by their profession dedicated to the service of God and the care of souls and ought not to be diverted from the great duties of their functions therefore no minister of the gospel or priest of any denomination whatsoever shall at any time hereafter under any pretense or exception whatsoever be eligible to or capable of holding any civil or military office or place within the state. And in case gentlemen you're thinking that the church is weakened by this kind of provision let me tell you unhesitatingly and the protest ministers will say the same that the reason why religion is as dominant as it is in the life of this country is precisely because of this separation of church and state. You really feel that father power? I am absolutely convinced of it. Absolutely. There is of course no established religion in America. Not in the sense that you mean that is correct but I should say myself that very often men seem to act as if the worship of opinion was the established religion of the country. Not the worship of wealth? Oh wealth yes the old country estimation of wealth has stayed with us though I hope and trust it somewhat diminished I'll admit that every man works for it in America and not quite every man does so in the old countries. All the same it doesn't seem to me that wealth is quite as important as a night of a snare a deception as this other thing the worship of public opinion is the leading heresy around here in my humble opinion. You seem very tolerant in your views father power is this true of all American Catholics? It's true most of them I should say we're now the largest single communion in New York but we're still in a minority so I shouldn't wonder if some of us are more tolerant when we belong to the minority than when we have the numbers on our side but even so American Catholics seem to love democracy as much as members of other religions Oh certainly and they take it away with them when they go abroad I was hearing only the other day of a lady from Charleston, South Carolina or very distinguished Catholic family but the name wouldn't mean anything to you this lady was on a visit to Europe and she paid a visit to Rome now naturally she was anxious to have an audience with her holy father and she had an introduction to one of the cardinals and sure enough of course he was very pleased to arrange for her to attend a general audience you know when there's a lot of people there and they all received the holy father's blessing ah but this wasn't good enough for her no indeed she wanted to talk to his holiness Nor says the cardinal it's not allowed that's an honor confined to the princesses of the blood the daughters of sovereigns then this lady gave me the answer straight but sir she says I am a princess of the blood and the daughter of a sovereign for in America the people are all sovereign and I am the daughter of one of the people remarkable reply very much so and it had its effect his holiness heard about it and he was so pleased with it that he granted an interview and that American lady was admitted to an honor to which no lady of private station had ever before aspired now there's an American Catholic for you and if you want to know what an American Protestant is like I'll give you an introduction to one of the Episcopalian ministers here a friend of mine the Reverend Dr. Wainwright so you find no point of conflict between religious ideas and political doctrines none sir none whatsoever they are two entirely separate worlds in each of which an honest and conscientious man may live in peace I should like to hear why you think this is so Dr. Wainwright is there any doubt in the matter I believe not sir it is because the ministers of the various sects have never entered politics and have never been or pretended to be a political power we should think that we were injuring our standing if we were to concern ourselves with a political matter a great number among us even abstain from voting at the elections that's what I myself am always careful to do is there no encouragement of religion in public life in our political and public life we frown upon clericalism but we warmly encourage religion there is great importance to it in everyday life have you seen yesterday's paper the New York Spectator I believe not I have it by me I have found you a paragraph which will impress you read it for yourself there the court of common pleas of Chester County State of New York a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God the presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God and that disbelief constituted the basis of all testimony in a court of justice and that he knew of no case in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief the judge refused to admit any of his evidence on the grounds that they had destroyed the confidence of the court in the truth of whatever he was about to say extraordinary thus you may see gentlemen the doctrine that we hold so dear of the separation of church and state does not mean that we must separate godly conduct from practical life on the contrary it means if anything that we Americans judge all our actions public and private from the point of view of religious morality that we have always done so and that I trust we shall always continue to do so and others would tell you the same what do you say to that doctor Stuart? that we judge all actions from the point of view of religious morality I'd say it's true I'm a medical doctor here in Maryland as you know gentlemen and I observe that people follow the advice of the clergy they hire only those that seem religious the church has a prodigious influence in the affairs of the world this state of affairs must create a good many hypocrites yes but above all it prevents people's criticizing religion public opinion accomplishes with us what the inquisition was never able to do I have seen I have known a multitude of young men who after receiving a scientific education thought they had discovered that the Christian religion was not true carried away by the fire of youth they began to maintain this opinion openly and they became indignant at the intolerance of the zealous Christians and placed themselves in a position of open hostility well some were obliged to leave the country or to vegetate there miserably the others feeling that the struggle was unequal were constrained to return outwardly into the ways of religion or at least keep their mouths shut the number of those thus beaten by public opinion is very considerable astonishing then there is a great depth of doubt or indifference hidden here yes of course anti-religious books are not published with us or at least the thing is very rare yet several of our great men have not been members of any religious sect have shared anti-religious feeling Washington for one a Washington's opinion in the matter of Christianity is unknown he never explained himself but Jefferson Franklin were decidedly deists rationalists on the other hand it must be acknowledged that with us a great many men of talent have been and are still firm believers the great majority of the people firmly sustains the opinion that a man who is not a Christian offers no social guarantee this is the source of an intolerance of which you can have no idea I must admit before I left France I thought that America was people with philosophic infidels and that deism was the most we could hope for actually this extreme tolerance on the one hand towards religions in general on the other this considerable zeal of each individual for his own religion is a phenomenon I can't even explain to myself I must say also that I am surprised to find religion on the side of democracy Franklin Beaumont I think we are discovering the cement of this democracy religion is much more necessary in this republic which the Americans set forth in glowing colors than in the monarchies which they attack it is more needed in democratic institutions than in others how can society possibly escape destruction if the moral tie is not strengthened in proportion as the political tie is relaxed and what can ever be done with the people who are their own masters if they are not generally submissive to the power of God religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society but it must be regarded as the first of their political institutions for if it does not impart a taste for freedom it facilitates the use of it I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion for who concerns the human heart but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions you have just heard the cement of democracy a study in American religion item six in a series based on Alexis de Tocqueville's democracy in America this series presented by the national broadcasting company was prepared by the division of general education of New York University under the direction of George Probst, American historian produced in the studios of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation by Andrew Allen scripted by Lister Sinclair music by Lucio Agostini this series, democracy in America is made possible by a grant from the fund for adult education as part of a general course of study of the nature of American society teachers of American history and American civilization and adult education leaders may be interested in using these dramatizations and other materials which are available for study and discussion at a reasonable charge for information right to American foundation for continuing education post office box 749, Chicago 90, Illinois now this has been Grower inviting you to listen next week to the cold water army item seven on democracy in America this has been an NBC radio network presentation