 I just want to shout out to the National Arts Center English Theater, which is the reason why we've been able to have these investigations and these conversations in collaboration with the Canada Council for the Arts National Theater School, HowlRound, and our presenting partners, Fulda, deeply appreciative of that partnership and all the work that has gone into bringing people together to be able to speak, and particularly in this moment. I just want to say that we are on, I am on, specifically, I'm in Kingston on the traditional lands of the Anishinaabe, the Huron-Wendat and Haudenosaunee. And there are people, of course, meeting from so many different places across Turtle Island, both the north and the southern half, and situated on many traditional lands. So to maybe take a moment to consider the histories of the land that you're on, even though we're all meeting in this sphere above those lands. And then, lastly, I just like to say that this panel, how artists respond in the last panel, Jennifer, talked about Jennifer Atkinson, talked about the requirement for scientists and artists to be able to have a meeting space because scientists are good at data and artists are good at interpreting. And so it gives me tremendous pleasure to think about this conversation following Jennifer's words that just came before. I want to introduce to you the moderator, Kevin Matthew Wong. He's a theatre creator, projection designer. He runs Broadleaf Theatre. And he's also created some fascinating work that relates specifically to climate change in his own right. And I know there's going to be a formal Q&A following this session. Please feel free to put your comments in the chat throughout and we'll try to keep an eye on them. But I think that's all the business I need to say. I work with the Canada, the National Arts Centre English Theatre, and I'm the co-curator of this cycle with Chantal Billidale. And I think now it's over to you and I will disappear. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks so much, Sarah. Thanks for such a great introduction to this panel. Thanks for curating us to all be here together today. Sarah mentioned my name is Kevin Matthew Wong. I use he-him pronouns. I come to you today from Tikaranto, the territory of the Haudenosaunee, the Wendat, the Anishinaabe, and the Mississaugas of the Credit. I come to you as a Hakka Chinese theatre creator, performer and producer. In Toronto I produce the Why Not Theatre, a lead company called Broadleaf Theatre that Sarah mentioned that focuses on emerging climate justice and performance. And I'm also a coordinator with the Group Artists for Climate and Migrant Justice and Indigenous Sovereignty, whose mandate I hope is pretty self-evident. So today I am thrilled to moderate this panel, which features three incredible artists in conversation across four different time zones, two continents, all with a commitment to addressing climate crisis through their work. And these artists question their aesthetics and practices to better fight injustices. They have developed partnerships with non-arts organizations, science-based organizations. They engage with their community in new ways in order to demand systemic changes around climate. You'll find that their practices are incredibly varied. And as you'll find in our conversation, these are artists for whom climate and climate justice is interwoven into the DNA of their practices, even if it's not explicitly stated in every project or any project. I'm also hoping that this conversation will delve into some of the ways of this specific moment, the COVID-19 crisis, the increased attention on anti-black racism, and the need to dismantle white supremacy, how these are all deeply related to how we face our climate reality today. So the session is going to be 45 minutes long. This breaks down into this quick introduction, followed by 30 minutes of conversation between myself and the panelists, then 10 minutes of Q&A led by Chantal Villadeau. And the questions that you asked in the Zoom chat box will be collected by Chantal and will lead our final 10 minutes. So now without further ado, I'd love to give a quick introduction to our fantastic panel. And you can also read their short bios in the chat box. So first, Anthony Simpson Pike is a theater maker and dramaturg based in London, England. He is an associate artist at the Gate Theatre in Notting Hill and an associate director at the Yard Theatre in Hackney. Welcome Anthony. Thanks for joining us so late. Next up, Ben Schwartz. Ken is a Canadian theater director, a playwright and arts activist. He is the artistic director of Two Planks and a Passion Theatre. He is the co-founder of the Ross Creek Center for the Arts, both located in King's County, Nova Scotia. Welcome, Ken. We'll find a way to hear you. We're working on it. And finally, last but not least, Kendra Van Coney is the artistic director of The Only Animal, a company uniquely dedicated to theater that springs from a deep engagement with place and towards solutionary outcomes for this climate moment. She is based in Quexxon in Seychelles Territory, which some might know as Roberts Creek on the Sunshine Coast of BC. Welcome, Kendra. So I'd like to start us off today by getting to know everyone a bit better than what we can just know from your bios. So I'd like to get to know more about who and where we all are. So my first question is how do your identities and personal lives intersect with the work that you create and the audiences and communities that you serve? And for this question, maybe we'll start with Anthony. Yeah, great. Can you hear me all right? Perfect. Yeah, I think it's a really, it's a really good question. And I really work from a political position because my existence is politicized. So the work I make is often speaking from a marginalised perspective, whether that's queer and or Black, or about something else. And I think that that's kind of one of the main anchor points. The other thing that I always come back to is this talk that Chimamanda and Gozegichef gave called The Danger of a Single Story. And she talks about how the danger of a single story isn't necessarily that it's completely untrue, but it's that it becomes the only story that we know about a people or a community. And for me, I think that stories build the world. In the last talk we heard from Jennifer, we had that narrative is kind of the way that we come to understand each other and the things around us. And the building blocks of that are stories. So I want to tell multiple stories for people who normally only get a stereotype. And I want to engage in broadening narratives. So yeah, I think in that sense, the work I make is sort of like necessarily political, because because my identity is politicised on so many different, at so many different intersections. Thanks, Anthony. And I wonder if I can ask a quick follow up, which is, can you give us a bit of context about Notting Hill and Hackney specifically? And do you consider the the folks that live in Notting Hill and Hackney as the core audience that you think about when you're creating work? That's a really good question. And yeah, I think that's that that's definitely part of that's definitely part of my practice. And part of my practice is also asking the question of like, who gets to be on stage and what, what is considered as like, art and what's considered as like community work and why that binary exists, where when I don't actually feel that it's, it's useful or true. And so, so that's that's a lot of the work that I've been doing at the gay, and, and now it just starts to the yard. And that that's, that's also a focus. But, but I think that it is really true to say that one of the big shifts that needs to happen in the UK, at least, is breaking down this binary of siloing work that is based in the community or for the community from work that is for some other sort of abstract audience. Thanks, Anthony. I definitely think that we've that resonates with us in Canada to the idea that separation. Thanks for that, Anthony. Maybe Ken, can we test your audio? And then let's, let's try. Can you hear me? Yes, fantastic. So sorry, it's the first time I've ever had an audio issue with a zoom call. Of course, it would be this. That's all right. Do you need the question again, Ken? If you don't want, we were a little bit engaged. Oh, great. So, oh, sorry. So I will restate the question. So can we start with how your identities and how do you see your personal life intersect with the work that you create and the audiences and community that you serve? Well, thank you. Yeah. So I, I live in rural McBoggy in Nova Scotia. And I live in the one of the agricultural bread baskets in Canada. And my rural life is very connected to the work I create and the atmosphere and the conditions in which we create our work. So we are the place where we create work is on a 187 acre farm. And food security has become central to everything we do at that center. And the lens through which we create work often, you know, involves, will actually always involves rural life. We may be talking about issues that affect the entire world. But it's always through that particular lens. Thanks, Ken. I wonder if you could tell us maybe just a little bit about the specific audience that comes to your shows. And what what a rural audience looks like in your community? Sure, it's kind of interesting because there's in the main, there are two large groups that come to see our work. One would be our, what I would refer to as our local rural audience, who come from within, say, 20 kilometer catchment area throughout farm country around us. But another large group of people would be people who I would describe as urban dwellers, people who who live in the Halifax Regional Municipality, for whom a journey to come to our center is a journey into a very different way of life. So in some ways, we're reflecting our rural existence to an increasingly non rural population. That's fascinating, Ken. I think that's also a maybe a really good segue into asking Tendra the same question, which is, can you speak a bit about your identities? How they intersect with the work that you make and the community that you serve? Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm the daughter of an activist and a scientist. And so of course, I rebelled against all of that and tried to make a life entirely in fiction in the theater. But now in middle age, I've really felt the coming home to both, both of my parents gifts to me. I'm also the descendant from a long, long line of farmers going back a long while. I'm an immigrant to Canada. I was really looking for a homeland and spent about seven years wandering around trying to find a place to be. And the landscape in BC really spoke to me. And I attribute that to why I ended up here. That's been 20 years ago now. I'm completely charmed by Ken's description of his 170 87 acre farm. I live in a piece of land. And I have a small farm here. And I'm a forager. I'm also super concerned and obsessed with food security and the relationship with wild places. I moved to this land, specifically, to have a more intimate relationship with the natural world. And when you do, you see climate change. So I was saying that not this year, but the previous year, when it came time for spring, we didn't have puddles. And we live in a rainforest. And we had this world without puddles because the water table was so low. And it was a strange recognition that I was missing puddles. And that's kind of, yeah, so that that relationship feeds our work, which is primarily located on the land in different ways. It's so interesting to hear about you being in that location and seeing that the landscape changed before your very eye season after season. And Kendra, I'm also curious about your audience. Is it similar to Ken and that you kind of have a mix of folks from the local community and also urbanites that are coming out to visit you? I would say because we've made work in a whole bunch of different places, we almost always are dealing with an audience that has a connection to that place. It's a place that they love. And I'm reflecting on Jennifer's comments about grief and love being so intimately connected. I think that we've often said that our work is about creating a love story and making people fall in love with a place because what you love is what you will protect. So I think about our audience really not as any kind of homogenous group, except that they are organized care connected to the places and the ways that we make work. Thanks for that, Kendra. I think that may be a good segue as well into the second question, which is how do considerations of climate get infused in each of your work? And what role does the idea of justice play within that conception of climate? And for the second question, we'll go in the reverse order. So we'll start with Kendra, then we'll go Ken and then Anthony. So Kendra. When we started our work 15 years ago, we started as a zero impact company, really concerned about, you know, the theatrical tradition of driving the five ton truck to the dump after your strike. And we were determined not to be that. As we began to work in increasingly more elemental situations, we found ourselves making nicks, a theater of snow and ice. And when we premiered that piece at the Olympics, it was in the warmest winter in 126 years. And our theater was literally melting. And that kind of brought us to the climate crisis and led to our work now, which is all all of our work, both the projects and the kind of underlying value structure is connected to the climate emergency. So we work for a 1.5 degree temperature rise that's in line with a livable planet. We do that work in our values through carbon budgeting as a company, as a no fly company, as a buy nothing new company, as deals with materials, there are other ways that climate justice and equity diversity and inclusion are linked to that, of course. We deal with it thematically and what the work is about. We do projects around species loss, water insecurity forest stewardship, climate justice, protection of wild places. We almost always work with scientists and advocacy groups as a way of creating outcomes for our work that are solutionary. Our work really isn't didactic. The work relies on the kind of theatrical tools that make all theater work engaging. But but we are always kind of tied tied back to a narrative that is about this climate moment. And we're just coming into a three year relationship as the theater company and residents at the David Suzuki Foundation. That work is about forming an artist brigade, hopefully with many of you who are on this call and other people in our community. The work of the artist brigade is to bring arts and artists to the front line of the climate movement. And I would I would really echo what Jennifer said about the other people who are telling the climate narrative, be it scientists, academics, environmental organizations, journalists are keen, are chomping at the bit to work with artists, the communicators who can connect them to the people because they see that fact based approaches dead. So that's a big overriding work that will happen through commissioning of many pieces over the next three years. That's very exciting, Kendra. And is that specifically theater performance or the brigade is interdisciplinary? It is an interdisciplinary brigade. Yeah, we're working with partners at BC's Alliance for Arts and Culture to help us reach out into the community and to the people who have stories that need to be told. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing more about your work, Kendra. It's awesome to hear how many different angles that your company is coming to to the climate crisis with and how many different players are involved in that. So thank you for sharing. Moving back to Ken, then. The question is how do considerations of climate get infused into your work, Ken? And what does the role of justice play? Yeah, the center where we work is a place we've been since 2000. And in the 20 years that we've been there, we can see the effect of climate change in the weather patterns, in our ability to grow food for the center, and in our ability to perform outdoors because our theater company performs exclusively outdoors. And we try to tread as lightly on the land as possible. So we take inspiration from the land and let the land sort of design our productions as opposed to the other way around. But because of the fact that we are so connected to the land, we've had no choice but to respond and to become, in a sense, activists with regards to climate change. Everything from the way we educate young people at the center about the food they eat and how what food waste means in relation to climate change, the transportation of food, and then all the way to the kind of impact that our productions themselves have on the environment. And to be honest, when we started, these were artistic choices we made. It wasn't until we became connected to the land that we started to understand our roles as artists and citizens with regards to activism around climate change. We didn't choose to perform outdoors for those reasons, but we came to understand how important those things were from our work. Thanks for that, Ken. Can you speak a bit more than to the artistic decision that got you to the performing outdoors? Really, it was about stripping away almost every level of artifice that we could. Every filter between an audience member and an actor, and to have as direct an interaction between audience and performer in natural light on the same ground within the same atmosphere. That really drove the decision. Also, a fundamental desire to create work in collaboration with nature, if that makes sense. So that was really what drove those initial decisions. And through being more connected to agriculture and to our natural environment, speaking for myself, I started to have a different understanding of my place in the world. That's a welcome to hear, Ken. Thanks for sharing a bit more about the artistic process that got you to where you are today. I think just reflecting now on the interesting interplay between the playing with reality and Kendra, you mentioning using all the tools of theatricality and fantasy and the fantastical and how those are an interesting interplay when we think about work that is about the climate that there has to be some element of let's reflect upon what's actually happening here on the ground. So now moving on to Anthony with the same question, how are considerations of climate infused in your work, Anthony, and what is the role of justice play in that work? Yeah, great. I think firstly, it's really important for me to acknowledge that I really see myself at the sort of beginning of my journey in making work generally, but also in the context of the climate crisis. So I'm really inspired hearing from Kendra and Ken. But there are a number of things that come into play when I'm thinking about the work I want to make. One of them, I sort of mentioned earlier, is this thing about broadening narratives and multiple stories. I was talking to a playwright called Abhishek Madrinda and I don't know if this is actually his quote, but he was talking about dystopian fiction and he was saying that someone had read loads of dystopian fiction and they were trying to find examples of post capitalist literature and it was far easier to find literature about the end of the world than it was to find literature about the end of capitalism. So we're stuck in this like singular story about the way that we are able to live and I think that's one of the things that we as storytellers and people engaged in imagination can do well. The other thing that I've been thinking about a lot recently and especially as it concerns the UK context is the idea of structure and form rather than just content. I think as makers in the UK at least when we're talking about work around this subject, we're really focused on content. We're really focused on telling people that climate change exists and you know you need to use less straws or something like that and we're much less focused on what the structures are that allow us to make work and what the form is that might best like activate people. And I think that if we thought more about the structure we might do a bit less kind of like telling people that climate change exists and a bit more of punching up and thinking about like what are the tools we have? There's organisations as activists, as makers that can make structures that force our energies upwards into making change happen on that level as well as talking to individuals. But I think it's really dangerous when we get stuck in trying to convince individuals when we know that like a hundred companies are responsible for the majority of the missions. So an example of that as well in terms of my own work is thinking about the interventions that I can make. So rather than just making shows I've also been thinking about what sort of like more long-term experiences I can be engaged with. So in last year and year before we ran an artist climate lab where we got a group of artists and I drum turned to the first one kind of thinking about what the story of change might be. Like how can we also think about drum surgery in that context as well as in a sort of like play-making context? And then just to move quickly on to the last point I wanted to make is about thinking about the tools that we already have. So I think like as this makers we're really good at imagination and we're really good at like rehearsing for things. So what if we prepared for the future now? Like what if we rehearsed for the future and rehearsed for a way that we would like to interact as a community together? That's one of the things that I was making at the Royal Court just before this happened and then it had to be cancelled because I had made a show about imagine that you're in not a show and experience about imagine that you're in a crisis and then it was a group of citizens were invited to spend 12 hours together as a 12 hour rehearsal rehearsing for what kind of community they wanted to be in the future. And then the coronavirus said no. So that's postponed for the future. Just on the subject of justice, like as we heard from Jennifer, climate justice is racial justice. It's social justice. It's everything. And so for me like it's really important that we join up the dogs. Thanks, Anthony. Those were great points. Yeah, really resonates with me that we lack the imagination to imagine a future without capitalism. It's interesting that you have a friend that was actually searching for those stories and trying to quantify. Thanks for that. I think maybe now's a good time for us to start connecting some of the dots and having some more open conversation. And I just like to pose a question that maybe we can all discuss, which is what are some of the challenges that you've faced in creating your work that is infused with these ideas of climate justice and other forms of justice? And the flip side of that is what opportunities do you see? And maybe that can also spring from this particular moment of COVID-19. So I'm curious about any of your thoughts on that. Thanks, Ken. What resonates for me most in this moment when we're talking about recovery is asking a question. That's a terrifying thing, I think, for a lot of people to consider. But it's also, I think, the greatest opportunity that we have. You know, what is worth recovering? And we have this opportunity to think about what's worth recovering. I realize that's a very big idea, but that's what I've been thinking a lot about. You know, what is it about what I've done before that speaks to the aspirations we have of the world when we try to pick up the pieces. And there are some things that I do think are worth recovering, but there's so many other things that I feel like we can leave behind. Can you give us an example of each of those things, something that you hope to recover and something that you hope to leave behind? Yeah, well, in terms of things to leave behind, I think the thinking that the only things that can save us as a society are the structures and systems that we already have. You know, the notion that it's without the structures and systems that we have in place now, the only other option is anarchy and chaos, as opposed to what I think is the reality, which is that that's many of these systems have never really served us. We've been serving them. So it's hard for me to be specific right now. But it is something that I've been thinking a lot about. And then is there is there something to recover? That's something to do away with. And maybe there's not something to recover. You know, aspects of my life that I really want to recover are the ones about direct human interaction. Every opportunity we have to be together and to really listen to each other in an unmediated way, especially meeting and speaking with people and really listening to people that we've never met before. I've been thinking a lot about that, about people in my own community that I live next to, but I don't actually live with them. I've been thinking about what our art center might, how it can be a catalyst for bringing those people together. Thanks for that, Ken. I think that idea of living next to each other but not living with each other is something that we can all reflect upon. Kendra Anthony, do you have any thoughts on this question, which is what are some of the challenges that you're facing in your work and what are some of the opportunities that you're seeing? Yeah, definitely. I think, as I mentioned before, I think one of the challenges is an over-reliance on content about the climate crisis from programmers. And so that can be something that you're like pushing against as well. But also drawing from the talk that we just listened to, there's also something around like facing grief, which is something that we don't talk about enough as well. I think I certainly have a sense that I want to make people feel hopeful, but listening to what Jennifer was saying around getting grief and hope as well. Hope may be something that allows you to sort of not take action because you're just kind of like it's almost like a religious experience or something. And how can we embrace grief and act in a way that might make future generations be able to hope? That's something that feels like a tricky thing as well, especially in a context of a capitalist theatre production context where the focus is really on entertainment a lot of the time. How is it possible and how do you make space to make work about grief or work that's about facing up to something that a lot of people, including myself, find really hard to truly kind of embed and consider? Yeah. And I think the other challenge I have is that I really, I think it's not useful to think in binary, so I really understand the purpose of activating individuals. But I also am trying to do a lot of work around thinking about organisational, organisational power, powers of like theatre communities to come together and speak upwards and how that works. I don't know that I've come to an answer around that, but that is my challenge at the moment. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks for articulating so many ideas that I think we're all hovering around but haven't put it towards yet. You know, that the need to face that grief and the kind of false ball that that hope can be too. Yeah, and that that is in all all our conversations about justice, every single one there are kind of those traps too. So thank you for that. Kendra, I wonder if you want to answer this question and then we'll go to a quick, quick Q&A. And the question again was opportunities and challenges. Kind of picking up where Anthony left off. I think we know where we are with the climate crisis right now. The UN has called this the decade of action. Taking action now is what guarantees a livable or gives us the best chance for a livable future. I think that the call then is for systemic change. It's not just about washing out our plastic bags. And it's very easy for us having grown up in this neoliberal framework, many of us, most of us, to feel like individual action is all we have and is enough and is right. Along. So how do you create systemic change? Well, there I mean, that's like a huge day long thing that we can we can do later. But I think that as artists who work in collective experience, we are well suited to come in as collaborators in creating that systemic change that what we know about climate grief and climate anxiety that is unaddressed is that it freezes people up. They cannot mobilize and we need to mobilize so that our work as artists that work of the heart of that hot fire that can can melt and mobilize that can take people on a journey that is emotional that is not just like the new story you read about like the death of animals or the wildfires in Australia that just completely doesn't doesn't often lead you to action. So again, this is sort of talking about the role of the artists, the opportunities for the artists. I also think that climate literacy is a piece of it. It's something we're trying to do with the artists brigade to because to know what the problems are and what the solutions are that we're being told the solutions are there. It's not a problem that we don't have the solutions. The problem is the mobilizing of the solutions and the systemic change. And then finally, I think to to talk again to this notion that's been brought up about the importance of the vision. I'm definitely being told that by our advocacy partners that part of what what we need is the artist to contribute to is the building of the vision of what's on the other side. They call it beach mentality. So if you're out in BC and you're trying to get out to one of the Gulf Islands and you have to sit through to two sailing weight on the fairies and it's really hot in your air conditioning is broken and there's sand in your sandwiches. You don't give up going to the beach because of those things. The beach the vision of the beach pulls you through all of those things. You you don't want to turn back. You want to go forward. And so we're being really called our sector at this time to come forward with our imaginations of what that culture of stewardship or culture of care. What it is what it looks like why we want to go there. What the humanity is that replaces that those the top of the structures that we have. Thanks, Kendra. Thanks for giving us that vision of the beach there. And you know what I'm reflecting upon now and I don't think we actually have time for a Q and A. Oh, we can have one question actually. Oh wow. Okay. So we have one question and then maybe I'll do a final just what I'm thinking about and maybe just one word or sentence from each of you as to where you are. I know it's kind of an impossible question, but okay, so I think we have one question and Chantel might be joining us for that one question. And here's Chantel. Oh, can you? Yeah, thank you. I just needed to be unmuted. I'm Chantel Bilodeau for those of you who don't know me. Co-curator with Sarah. I think one question. Let's go for a question by a young artist who is asking what suggestion or advice do you have for someone who wants to who would like to start a theatre company that is environmentally responsible and politically involved to fight climate change? Oh, that's a big one. Three minutes, everybody. I'm going to pass that on to Kendra and Kent because I think that's the best place. I think that's like the climate issue is enormous and enormously multifaceted and that there's room for everyone and your particular view, the work you feel attached to and the work you want to do. If we're going to lift something big, we all have to find our place to grab on. And so to go as deeply as you can into your obsessions and your what you are drawn to and know that that is your piece. You don't have to search any further for what your piece is maybe beyond a basic climate literacy, which I probably think you have to know what your work is to do and to follow it as far as you can. Thanks, Kendra. Can any quick thoughts maybe like? Sure. Don't be limited by the architecture of the institutions that already exist. Don't let the institutionalization of our art form and the way that things have been done before become the restriction on your vision for your art because it's not a productive restriction. Thanks, Ken. I really appreciate that challenge to to infuse the creativity that we need for the climate crisis into challenging the institutions that constrain what we think we can or can't do as artists. I'll maybe just touch on two points really quickly and then we'll end up with a sentence or a thought from each of you. And then we're at time amazingly. So I just want to reflect upon and thank everybody for reflecting upon the power of story as really integral to what we do, the power of convening conversations, difficult conversations and the need for folks to kind of what I've been thinking about as I've been listening to all of you speak is to place ourselves in the role of protagonist in stories. This is this is everybody's moment to act and it's everybody's opportunity to really investigate who they are, where they're coming from and in our way, it's our duty to do that before we can get to the next step, which is the systems change, you know. So that's what I'm reflecting upon. Thank you all for those thoughts and maybe we'll just go in the order now we'll start with Ken, then we'll go Anthony and then we'll end off with Kendra and we'll call it a panel. What was the question? Sorry, Kevin. One word or sentence that is on your mind right now thought my sentence will be I'm feeling the challenge. Thanks so much, Ken and Anthony, word or thought. You're muted, Anthony. Can you see? Oh, I think he's frozen out of the conversation. Anthony, if you want to type it, we can read it out to Kendra, you want to do yours and then we'll go back. Oh, here's Anthony. Actually, maybe Anthony, sentence or thought word. Yeah. Oh, can you hear me? Yes. My sentence is I wish I had better into that. No, it's the word I think. I think I think my word is flux. Thanks, I can't hear that. I would just invite people into action right now with everything you've got. No idea is perfect, but no idea will ever go anywhere without a beginning. So to please begin and to reach out and build network within this community here, there are many. There's a huge community of artists and many opportunities that exist within it. And this COVID pause is a time where we can make those connections in order to to to tell this story in collaboration with the other people telling the climate story. Awesome. Thank you all so much. Huge thanks to Anthony, Simpson Pike, to Ken Schwartz, to Kendra Van Coney. Huge virtual applause to all of you. Thanks so much for being such inspiring artists and doing the work in your own communities back to Chantelle. Hello. Thank you very much. These sessions go so fast. I could have listened to you much, much longer. But unfortunately, we have to move to the next one. So thank you, Kevin. Thank you, Kendra, Anthony and Ken. Thank you, everyone who was on the skull and everyone who is watching from the live stream. We are now moving to our next session in just a few minutes at five o'clock Eastern Time, which is a panel titled leadership and structure for change with Sarah Garten Stanley and Ravi Jane. And I hope to see you there. Thank you.