 Now we're going to have that we've had a lot of questions. So just up front I can say I'm not going to get through all of them. So apologies If I if I don't ask your question, but hopefully the speakers might be able to I know where Sunil's not been in answering at least one question. So I'm going to Direct my the first question that came into Joji I'm going to combine two questions in one actually about reference architectures The first question was could you give us a little more detail about the reference architecture mentioned on your slide on tools and techniques and The second question is You mentioned reference architectures as As a tool driving digital transformation. Do you see value in the certification of reference architectures? Great. Yeah Great question. So let me start with the first part of it. So the reference architecture what we are what we are set up is basically a strategic look at where we want to be right. And that takes into every aspect of Enterprise. It takes beta. It takes applications. It takes the infrastructure, the hosting. Even we have also gone to detail of looking at also the modern place because The company we which is essentially all with all the old legacy. Now we have also You know challenges with that system. So that is what the project reference architectures talks about and so that it has multiple elements taken into and what we have done is taken Each of these are below, you know, and have a big stream of work which happened. Okay, let me move to Sunil if I may question. Would you suggest that organizations using BPM and UML should position to using Archimage? Definitely I can use Archimage. Still whatever they're using it must be used for BPM and at the same time they need to adapt Archimage because it becomes a standard language across the enterprise. Right. Okay. Thank you very much. Let's take a question for Suresh here. Can you speak, Suresh, a little bit to the impact of switching to commercial off-the-shelf systems, the impact that that had on driving the EA. The question is, personal experience was that in the mid 2000s people thought we didn't need EA anymore because we were buying instead of building. But how can it, how can those things be harmonized now? Do you think, Suresh? Well, with the cost packages, yes, we were able to bring up the systems up and running, but I feel like the optimization is lost when you use the cost packages because you can't share the infrastructure when you're using cost packages. Right. So the infrastructure is kind of replicated in most of the cost packages. So the optimization was not that much with the cost packages, but the advantage that we got was we kind of brought the systems up and running very easily. Right. So that's where we have to see. So with the cloud also, with the cloud computing, now, is it good to go for SaaS or is it good to go for PaaS or IAS? So that's where the organizations have to make a better choice in picking the right service with the cloud vendors. Otherwise, you may lose the optimization there. Right. Okay. Thank you. Joji, do we have you back on audio yet? I don't think we do. So you may be, you may be dialing in again. And Sunil has been very good at answering the questions in the Q&A channel. I'm trying to find one that you haven't got to yet, Sunil. But no, it's great to get the questions answered. So there was one that came in that you have answered, but I think it's worth bringing out again. And it was a question about some of the, let's see, oh my God, this one. Yes, I'm trying to find it now. There's so many questions. Yes, it's this one. You've answered it, but could you connect a business capability to an application component to data and information components using Archimate? And can that relationship be version controlled? Yes, it can be connected. Archimate has got the best notations, the capability from the business all the data can be connected. And especially with the tool, it is possible to have version control. Right. That's great. And you mentioned that there are a number of tools who are accredited by the Apple Group. So great. Let's go for one of those, definitely. Question for Suresh. On your slide, enterprises need to be agile from end to end. The model looks very much like the IT for IT reference architecture. Is that intentional? Well, it's a combination of many, many frameworks, many good frameworks in the industry, one being the IT for IT. Actually, you might be familiar with my agile, top agile, agile enterprise architecture. So I combined my top agile with the IT for IT, DevOps. So it's a combination of multiple things. Yes, it is very intentional, I would say. Okay, thank you. And I think we're still, I don't want to leave Joji out, but I think he's dropped from the list that I can see. So if you're there, Joji, do let us know. Okay, another question for you, Suresh. What, according to, based on your experience, are the top two challenges in achieving application portfolio rationalization in a large organization spread across the globe? And how do you address those? One of the biggest challenge that I would see is, you know, when you are rationalizing your portfolio, right, we are not looking, we are not doing a good analysis on from a business value perspective. Right. So whether those applications are, you know, giving any business value, right, so there is a written on investment or not, right. So that that business perspective is kind of missing in that rationalization effort. Right. That is the biggest challenge that I would say. And then, you know, so when I see any application modernization, right. They are just taking one application functionality and building that with a newer technology. Right. Just, you know, one to one mapping. That's the biggest disaster I think. So when you are transforming, that's, that's, that's the time that you can see how you can change your business itself. Right. The business processes are, you know, how you do the business itself, but you know, organizations are missing that opportunity when they are rationalizing their application portfolio. Right. Okay. And another, another question for Sunil, which again, you've, you've answered in the chat, but I think it's worth, it's worth bringing up because it's, there's been a lot of understanding, a lot of mentions of agile and the need to do things in an agile way. So the question was, is it possible using Archimates to develop models in an agile way, you know, along the way as it were rather than wasting long periods between them. Definitely it must go with agile way because as you get the information, you must be able to capture the information and able to show the user what is the outcome of it. At the same time, in the agile way, we can able to, it must be a working software. Similar to that, we can be able to give a understandable requirement and especially the sophisticated tools, we can able to work in control and easy to manage the outcome. Okay, thank you. And let's see, we have another question for Suresh, which was, yes, how can you take enterprise strategy to execution through, through EA 3.0? Yeah, so there are many things that we have to look at. So, first of all, you know, digital transformation or the newer transformation enterprise is 3.0, which I'm talking about, is not just about technology. Right, so I think most of us has understood that and probably it's a time to understand that it is not just the technology transformation that we are doing, it should be a business transformation itself. Right, so if you look at how you're operating your business, how you're transforming your business and probably the technology, the newer technologies that we got this market or whatever is helping us in that transformation that is good. So that that is what we have to look into rather than just trying to use whatever the newer technology is there and just trying to transform, you know, purely from a technology perspective. That is that that doesn't reap any benefits. Right. We have to transform from a business perspective rather than just technology perspective. Understood. Okay. And I'll just squeeze in one more question for Sunil, if I may. Again, you've put a short answer in the chat, but can you suggest some good techniques to ensure the outside in customer perspective is captured in ArchiMate models? Yeah, definitely can use the motivation model. Again, we've got the business canvas. Again, that can be utilized to capture the information. Wonderful. I think it's very proven and it really works. Yeah, it does. That's great. Gentlemen, we're going to leave it there. I do see that Joji is answering some of the questions in the in the chat. I know there was one in one in particular I was about to get to regarding how you handle a common vocabulary across multiple companies. So if you if there are any unanswered questions, then if the speakers could go in and do that, that will be much appreciated. And in the meantime, thank thank all three of you for your contributions and a virtual round of applause for me. Thank you.