 Good morning, everyone. Thank you for connecting on this call. Let's pray and begin our study from the book of Hebrews I want to request one of us to please lead in a word of prayer, please Yes Father, we just thank you for this beautiful time. Beautiful morning, Father God. Thank you that we have come in this platform Lord Jesus that to equip ourselves, Father God Lord Jesus, we pray that Lord as we are here, Father God, learning your words, Father God, equip ourselves, Lord We ask you more of your grace, understanding and knowledge, Lord Jesus. Take us deeper and deeper, Father God And we pray for you, ma'am. Thank you for her life, Father God. I see it's going to be slow. Help her to teach, Lord, Father God, so that she will be the blessed to us, Father God. We submit these glasses to your mind and in Jesus name we will pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Abinas. We have been looking through the different chapters of Hebrews and we've seen how the author is trying to establish the greatness of our God in so many different ways and particularly Jesus because these believers obviously coming from the faith of Judaism, they now feel that their traditions were a lot more intricate and profound compared to what they are doing, you know, after they've received salvation in Jesus and not only that they were also being persecuted. So now we've understood that they were in discouragement and thereby the author he tries to talk about the greatness of Jesus and at the same time what he does is that, you know, he wants them that their discouragement and disappointment can have ill effects if the people are not careful. So he goes to the example of the children of Israel and how they were disobedient, how they were rebellious, even though God did mighty things in their lives and he tells them how, you know, forgetting what God has done for us can also take us, you know, it can sidetrack us and that can be very dangerous in the Christian faith. So many things have been discussed so far and in the last class we saw that the Lord Jesus is our High Priest. He is a chosen High Priest. We saw how the author talked about the fact that Jesus did not make himself the High Priest, but he was appointed by God and that is again, you know, the beauty of his greatness, his obedience. Now the Lord Jesus, though he was an heir, that was not all. He also lived a life which was worthy of God's appreciation and God putting the titles on him, blessing him, exalting him. We saw how he learned obedience through the sufferings that he went through. And, you know, after having spoken about the greatness of the Lord Jesus as a High Priest, the author came to encouraging the believers and telling them that they need to move on towards maturity. So in the Christian walk, it's not good enough to just begin the race, but it's important to develop ourselves, nurture what God has done in us and then, you know, go on to what is known as maturity or we'll see today, you know, the term perfection, which simply refers to the character of the Lord Jesus. So every believer needs to make this journey and if we don't, then, you know, it's really sad and that's what, you know, the author will remind the believers. So now we are at chapter six. So let's begin with verse one. We can read three verses and I'll go on and explain them. Let's see how far we can get today. We'll cover as much ground as possible. So Hebrews chapter six versus one to three, we have someone can read it. That would be really good. Shall I read, ma'am? Yes. Yes, Sapti, please go ahead. Thank you, ma'am. Hebrews chapter six verse one to three. Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. Of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on our hands, of resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment and this we will do if God permits. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Avni. So the connection is his encouragement to go on to maturity and from there he's continuing. So many of these new chapters begin with the word therefore. So it is in continuation to what he has been talking about. So he already told them by now, you must have been teachers but, you know, here we are, we have to, but that has not happened. And so he says, you know, you need to have that discerning spirit when one matures, you know, they are able to have that discerning spirit that can tell between good and evil. And not only that, in maturity, one is able to digest the solid meat of God's word and no longer just dwell in milk. So he said all these things and he continues. He says, therefore, because maturity is so important, he says, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ. So again, you know, the basics which we have in Christ, we must no longer remain in that place forever. So he says, let us go on to perfection. So again, that word perfection is from the Greek word tiliotis, which refers to completeness or maturity. And as I have explained, completeness is to be like Jesus, that's what it is. So there is a provision or a possibility for us to move towards that perfection. Now, many would argue that, you know, it's only when we are in the, you know, out of this body that we will achieve that perfection and all those things. But here, one thing is very clear, you know, whether or not somebody is able to reach that pinnacle here on the earth, one thing we can all do is journey towards it. So that's his point. He says, let us go on to perfection. So all believers can mature. That's the beauty of this. And we must have the end result or the goal as maturity. Then again, you know, he sort of goes back on the same concept he says, leaving behind elementary principles or the basics where a part of our lives and hopefully a good foundation has already been laid as believers. Now, hopefully his point is hopefully we don't have to do that again and again, you know, going back to the basics, telling you all about, you know, who God is, what salvation is. So his point is, hopefully, we are well versed in these things by now. Not that we must not study them again or revisit them. That's not what he means. He's saying, these things have become a part of our faith. So, you know, once again, like, like a little baby to go from the basics may not be required. So as part of the foundations or foundational doctrines, he points out a couple of things. Now, it's not that the list that he makes here is complete. So the foundational doctrines, the foundational truth of our faith is way greater than the list he presents here. But a few subjects he touches, for example, he says foundation of repentance from dead works. So that simply means our salvation. The way it has come through faith and by grace and not works. Then he says, faith toward God, okay, we understand, you know, faith is very important in our Christian work. He says the doctrine of baptism. So here baptism, he is, he's kind of not necessarily referring to the baptism in the, in terms of the scripture and some, you know, commentators say that because the term which is used here is baptismal, which generally refers to ritual purifications or ceremonial rights. So we know that in the, you know, faith Judaism, they had many of these cleansing rights. So he, he for whatever reason, you know, he talks about those cleansing rights, the actual word baptism, which is used for people who are baptized into the faith. The Greek word that is used for that generally in the text is baptism. So, you know, commentators say that he's probably not even referring to the Christian baptism, he's just referring to, you know, cleansing. So anyway, this is not a complete list. So then he goes on and he says laying on of hands, laying on of hands has to do with, you know, leadership, handing over leadership, commissioning people into the ministry, resurrection of the dead that we understand, eternal judgment, even that we understand. And he says, not that these things are bad, we can always go back and learn some of the things that we learned early on in our journey. But if God permits, if there's a need, then we will study these things again. But otherwise, hopefully you already have a strong foundation. So, you know, you're strong in God. So the point of chapter six, as you will see is he's saying be so strong, have such a strong foundation in God that nothing can move us. And in this context, discouragement is there biggest enemy or you may want to also point out disappointment is a biggest enemy or, you know, the lack of lack of understanding about who Jesus really is, is also an enemy. So which is why he is helping them get a good perspective. So, you know, knowing Christ really well for who he is will keep us grounded in the faith and that desire to mature in God will keep us grounded in the faith. Having our foundations of the faith strong will keep us grounded in the faith. Many things will come and go. You know, it's like that house that Jesus talked about, the rains came, the winds blew, so many things can happen. But when a house is built on the rock, it cannot be shaken. So that is how each believer must be built on the rock. So he goes on to talk about people who have experienced this kind of, you know, strength or stability in God, but have chosen to let it go. Okay, so now we will read about those people who have tasted God or who are believers who have experienced God and have let go. So what does the Bible have to say about them? So this is one of the most challenging passages, you know, in the New Testament where people struggle to understand it. This is Hebrews chapter 6 verses 4 through 8. Could somebody kindly read this passage for us? For it is impossible for those who are once enlightened and have tasted the heaven they give and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good work, word of God powers of the age to come. If they fall away to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put him to an open shame. Okay, so there you have it. So, you know, there are questions about once saved, always saved, that can one lose their salvation at any point in their Christian walk. So there are all these questions which we have. Now, if you look at some of the early concepts like Calvinism, you know, I think it was somewhere around the 16th century where that became prominent, that sort of a belief. And in that, John Calvin, he taught that, you know, people are predestined. So God chooses whom he wants in the kingdom and not everyone can become a believer. And he also pointed out that once somebody is saved, it's the work of God and salvation is irresistible or what he meant is that once somebody is saved, no matter what they do, they cannot lose their salvation. Okay, so those were some early concepts. Then of course, there were others who came and disputed it. You have the Armenian theology where, you know, people said that no, we can't say that man has no responsibility. Man also has responsibility. You know, God is not stating that only a few are chosen because there are so many scriptures that say, you know, whosoever believes or God so loved the world, then he gave us only some that whosoever believes, right? They can have eternal life. So it's man's choice. Well, God has done the work, man also has a choice, man also has responsibility. So if man sins or a believer sins and decides that he does not want this heavenly gift, what is the heavenly gift? You know, we know in Romans 6.23, it says, when we sin, we receive death, wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. So eternal life is the gift that God has given us, but what if a believer chooses to reject it? Okay, well, this passage shows us that a believer who may even be strong in God, but when they choose to reject salvation, when they choose to go their own way, continue to live a sinful life, deny Christ, do all these things, there is a possibility to lose, you know, salvation and eternal life, not because God is snatching it away from them, but it's because they are willfully letting go and rejecting Christ. So how do we know that this is talking about a believer only? Maybe it's talking about, you know, somebody who has knowledge of Christ, but not a believer, but look at the passage, it's so clear. It says once enlightened, how are we enlightened? We know that the Holy Spirit brings revelation of the Word of God. So, you know, he lights up our understanding. So a believer has this experience of being enlightened by the Word, by the work of the Spirit, tasted the heavenly gift. I've already talked about salvation, eternal life, which have been offered as gifts to a believer, have become partakers of the Holy Spirit. You know, what does an unbeliever have with the Holy Spirit as a partaker? It's a believer, isn't it? So we are the ones who are working with the Holy Spirit. We are partnering with the Holy Spirit. So he's talking about a believer also continuing into saying, having tasted the good Word of God, the powers of the age to come, meaning the supernatural powers of God, you know, we taste it right here on the earth. So having experienced God in this manner, he says, if they fall away, now let's understand. He's not saying that if somebody falls, they will lose their salvation. Why? Why are we not saying, just stating that much? Because, you know, in scripture there is provision for forgiveness. God is given as grace, right? Now we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Would we all, even though we are believers, make mistakes knowingly or unknowingly in our journey? Yes, it happens. But the most important thing as Apostle John pointed out, you know, if we confess our sins, you know, when we keep short accounts with God, when we are repentant, when we want the cleansing of the blood of Christ in our lives, God once again helps us get back on track. So there is a beautiful scripture in Proverbs 24 verse 16, you know, it says, for a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, but the wicked shall fall by calamity. So can a believer fall in their walk with the Lord in their journey? Yes, there is a possibility. Nobody has a, you know, clear track record. We are maturing. That's why, you know, go on to maturity. We are moving in that direction. But we are grounded in the truth of what Jesus has done on the cross for us. He has given us grace, okay? So falling is not the same as falling away. When we talk about falling away, this is a very serious strain from God, where one has gone away to the point of rejecting Christ. And so that is why in that passage, he even says things like, if they fall away, you know, they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put him to an open shame. So the way salvation reflects in the life we live, okay? When one is saved, there is inner transformation which shows an outer transformation. Now, when somebody has fallen away, obviously, what has happened internally will show in their lives. Maybe they continue with a life that has sin in it. They continue with a life that speaks ill of the faith once they had. So what are all these things doing? They are putting God to shame. They don't glorify God. And that's what he's saying. He's saying, when one falls away, this becomes their life, okay? And another very, very important thing which he's stating is, we'll see later on that God's grace is incredible, okay? It's mind boggling, which is why even when Paul talked about it in the book of Romans, he asks the question, you know? So if grace abounds, why can't we sin? Because it's that great, the grace of God. When we understand it, we do ask that question because it's so great and incredible. But having said that, he says the seriousness of falling away from God is this, that even though God's grace is like an ocean, when one falls away, he uses very serious terms like it is impossible to bring back such people who have fallen away. He uses terms like to renew them again to repentance, meaning they no longer have a soft heart. They may be given to pride and deception and, you know, patterns of thinking that are descriptive of a hard heart. So he's saying when a believer, a strong believer at that goes away from the truth and live their own life, it's even impossible and renewing them to repentance may not even be possible. So that's pretty dangerous, okay? That's pretty dangerous. He's not trying to, you know, cover up and use pleasing words to these so-called discouraged believers because there are real dangers of letting go of the faith. So while he wants to be encouraging, he's not trying to, you know, play it down. He's telling it straight. He's saying, look, if you choose to let go of Jesus, then be warned that it is impossible and, you know, it is difficult to renew such to repentance. So that is, these are the dangers. And then he goes on verse seven and eight. He just uses a normal analogy. He says, look, when the earth drinks in the rain, when it rains, then what should be the result? There should be herbs. There should be vegetation, greenery. But if it isn't, okay, that doesn't happen. He says in verse eight, but if it bears thorns and briars, meaning there is no greenery, there's no proper output for the input that has gone in. Then he says it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. So he, in the context of what we have spoken, he says, look, God has done so much and his word is leading us, his spirit is with us. So we are blessed in every way. But having received this kind of input, if our lives are not fruitful, okay, going back to John 15 and bearing fruit and living a life that glorifies God, long lasting fruit, if all that is not an outcome of the life of a believer, he's saying something is wrong, something's wrong, okay, bearing priors and thorns or there is no, there is no no transformation. Though people are so called believers, it's not yielding the fruit and he's saying it's a very dangerous place to be. So let's be warned, let's be warned of falling away, let's be warned of not having a fruitful life. So just because we are discouraged, this appointment doesn't give us the right to venture away from God. So, okay, let me just pause here and I will quickly maybe, you know, get some comments before we proceed ahead. Anything that you may want to talk about? Okay, Kung is saying, so pastor, if a believer rejects Christ, will his name be erased from the book of life? Okay, will it be erased from the book of life? I mean, I don't know, Kung, but one thing I know is that they no longer will experience, you know, what was meant to be their inheritance or salvation and the blessings of salvation, they will not experience, they even lose eternal life. Yeah, go ahead, you have something more to ask? From what is being stated here, it seems like they will not. Okay, all right, so Kennedy, what are the foundation of repentance from dead works kind of give direction on this? So Kennedy, this is to do with the understanding of salvation. Okay, this is to do with the understanding of Christ's finished work on the cross. That would be the foundation for our repentance. So, you know, that's that entire doctrine. Yes, thank you. Yeah, any other thoughts, questions about falling away? Yes, Divya. Thank you, pastor. For me, the question is, yes, it's been mentioned in the passage that they have, you know, tasted and they have known God, but I have heard people telling like, maybe they did not know God in the first place. So, is that a fair interpretation or is it really telling about, you know, a genuine believer because it's very hard to grasp this. Yeah, and yeah, one example, everyone comes up. I'm not sure of, you know, but at the later times of the life of Charles Templeton, yeah, people to say that there was a moving away from God in his life. Yeah, but no one can, you know, give a final, you know, judgment on that we are not to. Yeah, but still this doubt remains like, yeah, so I just wanted to know whether it is a fair interpretation of that. Okay, yes, Divya. So, Divya, from on the basis of what has been written here, you know, things like enlightened, tasting the heavenly gift, which is of course salvation and being partakers of the Holy Spirit, you know, that in itself, in fact, for me, that is the biggest description of a person who is a believer. Okay, so he doesn't leave with one marker, but he talks about many things and then tasted the good word of God. So had he mentioned just one of those things, okay, fine, you know, it could be an unbeliever that he's referring to, but then because he is stating so many descriptions of a believer. Okay, that is sort of a giveaway, you know, telling us quite clearly that this is a believer and notice verse 6, if they fall away to renew them again to repentance, that again tells us, renew them again to repentance means there has been repentance in the first place, which is now no longer there. Okay, so it's quite clear again, you know, it's just crucify again for themselves, the Son of God. So in their experience, they have come to a place where they glorify and now they're going back to a place where they crucify. So according to me, the passage is quite clear that it's a believer and that's what I would say, but if anyone else has anything to add, you can. Okay, thank you. Yes, thank you. Yes, this is Rupa. Good morning, ma'am. Thank you. A small thought shared. This, the letters to the Hebrews is written to the believers who have come from Jewish background. And when we read 10 chapters of the Hebrews, we come to know that they were very fervent in their faith, that they even sold their possessions to take care of the brethren who were in prisons and all that. It was written about them. So they have, it has come during this letter when it was written to them, they were in a position where they were turning back to Jewish custom and Jewish ways so that they can just, their children will not go through the persecution or the, all that they're going through that time. So he is making sure the Hebrew writer, the author is making sure, making it very clear to them that there is no way they should not go back to that. It's like this, if you go back, it's like Israelites after being delivered from Egypt, trying to go back to that slavery again. That's the understanding I think the author is trying to convey the seriousness of what they are trying to do. Ma'am, thank you. Thank you, Sister Rupa. That's a great reminder of the context of this entire episode and puts us back on track. Divya, I hope it is helpful. Yes. Yes, Pastor. Thank you, Sister Rupa. Yes, it makes sense. Sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. Any other questions, thoughts, because this is a difficult passage. One question or maybe one doubt that I have is even at any time of their life, they still want to, they come to repentance again. So does this passage say that even like maybe they have really realized their mistake, they have, you know, so does this passage that they have no scope of returning or no scope of repentance? I'm just wondering like because, you know, because I know somebody personally who said that at a point of time, because of the trials and tribulations, that person just gave up. She said, I just kept my Bible inside and I said, I'm not going to follow Jesus and her life became all the more miserable. But there was a point of time after, you know, going through that being without God and seeing that her life has is going all the more, she wanted to come back. And she was sincerely pursuing God, though with a lot of difficulty. But just I'm wondering, I mean, God is God of mercy. He is God of grace. He gives everyone, you know, time to return back. So I'm just wondering, is it saying that or is it possible for someone to still return back if they genuinely repent and genuinely, you know. So the answer is yes, if at any point someone genuinely repents the provision is already there salvation, the abundance of grace that we were talking about. So it's already there. So genuine repentance can bring people back. But, you know, here we are talking about a boundary, a boundary line. And what the author is saying is don't, you know how sometimes we push, we try to test like little children, they just try to test, oh, how far is the boundary? How far can I go? You know, if mom says you can't do this, then they push and they say, okay, can I do this much? Will they allow me? Can I do this much? So basically he's saying, don't even try. It's too risky because where does that line lie? It's so hard to tell. So after which, because many people ask these questions, which sin, how much sin, how far away from God. But according to me, these questions are irrelevant because that just shows that we are trying to push the boundary maybe and just check, oh, how far can I go and still be here but not out. You know, I'm far away, but I'm still inside. So it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell when we might end up stepping out. Okay, so that's a risk. But the point is, yes, at any time if we repent, we are forgiven. But if we cross that boundary somehow that I'm talking about, okay, then it is impossible. It says, so let's not even go in that direction. Okay, so that's what the writer is also telling these people. It is a possibility to lose our salvation. Let's not even venture there because it's very, very dangerous. And as you're saying, you know, there are a lot of men and women of God, we can look at their lives and people comment, they say, oh, in the beginning, they were so full of passion, then something happened. Now towards the end of their life, they gave up. So maybe they're not in heaven. But who are we to judge? We can never tell what was the condition of their hearts and what happened between God and them. We don't know. So if there was genuine repentance at any point and they did not cross that boundary, yeah, they may have well have been brought back into this gift that God calls salvation. So yeah, these are all some thoughts. Thank you, ma'am. Yeah, thank you. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes, Christopher. Oh, yes. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can. We can hear you. Yeah. No, I was just thinking about it with our science, when certain individuals are, in a sense, digging double dives, and they're really good. And they also not doing things that are not conformity to what God wants them to do. And sometimes it's, it's, when you look at that, you wonder how this is possible, particularly with the extremes. I mean, I think there are people who are, who are doing things that they're not good, isn't God, but not to that extreme. So sometimes it's like, it's pretty like a breakdown. So, these people are sometimes in the public eye, and they are, maybe significant in term, ministers of God. And yet, there is this other life, which is, which is happy, which is happy. And just wanted to understand how that sort of fits in with this, this boundary line. I mean, I would think that, that would, which would understand that, where the boundary line is. So, but yet, it's happy. So just wanted to understand. Yes, Christopher. So, as you stated it yourself, these are people who are pushing the boundary and it's risky. Okay, it's very risky. We never know at what point they will be on the other side. So, unfortunately, right, even though we are believers, the Bible talks about carnal mind, carnal believer, immature believers. So that is a, that is a reality. And that's a reality that we should be warned about, that if we are not careful, then we can end up being those carnal believers, immature believers. So unfortunately, because of the carnal mind, and we let, and there are many other descriptions of a carnal believer, how they are driven by fleshly lusts, they are driven by the desires of the world. So, yeah, these things happen. And it's very, very unfortunate. And we can only pray for such people. The Bible does talk about praying for a heart of repentance. So, if we are aware that someone is in this situation, then yes, we can pray that they repent and God gives them opportunities for repentance. So it's basically, you know, carnality, Christopher, that's how people end up being this way. And how is it that people can live double lives? Well, the danger one runs is that when we move in carnality, we talked about the methods of workings of Satan in our first year course, believers authority. They're one of the ways in which he works is called deception. So what happens to a carnal believer is sooner or later, they are deceived where their conscience no longer pricks them. They no longer, you know, though the Holy Spirit is convicting, they don't, they have become insensitive to that conviction. So deception can bring us to a place where we can believe that we are not doing anything wrong, that we are righteous. You know, it's a very twisted way of understanding the truth of salvation, but at the same time living a sinful life and justifying it. So it's a very crazy and a very scary place, Christopher. So if people have ended up in those places, then most likely, this is what has happened. They are in deception. Does that give any clarity? Okay. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay, two moments here. And there's a comment from Kennedy. How can a Christian know when the divine protection has been withdrawn from you or you are just undergoing the normal storms of life? When would you know if the divine protection has been withdrawn? So, I mean, this is my thought, Kennedy. I hope I'm correct about it. But you know, when somebody is living in sin and they, what we've been saying, pushing the boundaries, they may actually never realize at what point the divine protection was lifted off of them, because they probably don't care to know about the divine protection. So, yeah, if one is not, you know, if one is genuinely following the Lord, like I would say, all of us, I'm just saying, just normal believers trying to do the right thing before God, live a holy life, worship the Lord, serve the Lord. I don't think we have to worry about, you know, when divine protection is being lifted. We don't have to think about that question, because if we are pursuing God, then what we are experiencing is in the category of normal storms of life. I hope that makes sense. All right. Okay, sure. All right, let's go on for a break now. It's 9.50. Let's come back at 10 o'clock and then we will resume. Thank you so much.