 Hello and welcome to the very first session of the Donahue Group, a new Sheboygan talk show. We're going to be visiting with you from time to time in one half-hour segments. We've gathered together some of Sheboygan County's best and brightest to talk about issues relating to the city, to the county, and to the state to some extent, and who knows, someday we may just launch into national issues. But for now, we're pretty content with staying here in our own state of Wisconsin. My name is Mary Lynn Donahue. I'm a lawyer here in town and enjoy, as all lawyers do, talking about issues. I'm going to briefly introduce our other panelists or participants and then ask them just to say a little bit about themselves and then we're going to take it from there because today is primary day and we have lots of interesting things to talk about. To my right is Ken Risto, Tom Pineski, and Cal Potter. Cal, do you just want to start, tell us a little bit about yourself and why you're here? Well, thank you for including me in your esteemed group. We have done this before and when I was in the legislative arena and we've always had enjoyable time putting on these local programs and I'm glad that you've taken the initiative to do this. My history goes back to the time when I was a school teacher. I was a social studies teacher at Plymouth High School from the late 60s to 1975. Then I was elected to the State Assembly and then to the State Senate and served about 24 years between the two houses and then moved on to the Department of Public Instruction having been appointed by John Benson as an assistant superintendent position and then reappointed to that by Elizabeth Burmaster, the president incumbent in that office. And just recently, after about 36 years of public service, I've decided to embark upon mostly retirement, although I do dabble in a number of things, so I'm somewhat employed, but almost full-time on boards and panels, I kind of think this is my new job. So I enjoy my new role, but I think I bring to this program perspective from the education community as well as the political arena, plus somewhat from the state bureaucracy and being sort of the recipient of the edicts of the state legislature having been a state agency employee as well. Very good. Tom? And I echo what Cal said. Thank you for suggesting I'd be part of this group. I hope I can contribute something of interest to this group and to the community. I'm from Kansas City, Kansas originally, and I came here back in 1969. I work at the University of Wisconsin Sheboygan Campus here, which is hosting this program. I've been here for 36 years. I'm a professor of mathematics. Along the way, I've done different things. Campaigned for people in local elections and governor elections, and then I decided to run myself and I ran for Alderman in 1979. City of Sheboygan First District and was elected in 1979, and then I was Alderman for 14 years serving on various committees. I voluntarily retired because I got burned out, so to speak, at some of the issues and working with working with city government is taxing. In so many ways. And I'm more active now in so it was kind of a relief to be away from city politics for a while. But now I'm kind of getting interested again. Currently, I'm a chair of the Department of Mathematics for the University of Wisconsin Colleges, but I follow local politics. I'm active in federal politics. To give you a sense of who I am in 1988, I was I was one of a group of seven people who kind of sponsored Jesse Jackson. Remember Jesse Jackson was running for president at the time and he visited the city and he's at the armory, and I had the opportunity to introduce him and shake his hand and give him Sheboygan Bratz and everything else. In 2004, I was an avid president Bush fan, so I've done the spectrum. So maybe I could provide a perspective to this group. Great. Ken? I'm Ken Risto. I'm a lifelong native of Sheboygan. Was raised here, left only for four years to go to Curell College and received a political science degree there and and a history degree and then decided to rather the law school go to go into education. I've been at the Sheboygan area school district for I believe this is my 22nd year. Currently, I teach in the morning over at South High School and then I spend the afternoon coordinating social studies. So like Cal, my roots are in social studies. I got interested in politics. I was a product of Catholic education and in those days with with the shadow president Kennedy's death, public service was something that people were supposed to aspire to. And I worked in Robert Kennedy's campaign as a seventh or eighth grader and later Eugene McCarthy's campaign and George McGovern's campaign and took me about 25 years to work for a campaign that actually won. And that was just once, right? I think it was. I think it really was just once. And but I did work on a couple of school board campaigns the last couple of years with some people and some of their local races. So I have a great interest in politics and I'm looking forward to the discussions here. I think that you know being called a What was the phrase you used for us? I think it's a esteemed group. I mean the truth died in this series about two minutes into the interview and the first pun was in five minutes. So I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to talking with all of you. But we're still on the air. So I consider that to be a good sign. My name is Mary Lynn Donahue. I'm a lawyer. I've been in private practice in Sheboygan since 1990, although I grew up here in a graduate of Sheboygan North High School. And I think like all of us have just found politics and the political life as well as public service to be of tremendous interest. And I've worked on a bunch of political campaigns. I've been pretty steady in my in my views of things, but over the years. But I've also served. I was on the Sheboygan area school district board of education for a number of years served as president and also the police and fire commission here in in the city of Sheboygan. So just have a sense of you know the one the importance of who we elect to office the importance of what elected officials and all the people who work for various municipalities the importance of their work and It's just interesting stuff. So I I think we're going to have some interesting discussions as time goes on Excuse me One of the things that we did talk about is that of great interest to us in this particular show Is that we represent a lot of different views and Almost none of us agree on everything and so I think just for that reason alone. It's going to be an interesting discussion So we're going to start out. We're taping on primary day and three of us have our I voted buttons on and I voted too, but I didn't get a button. So I feel the pride I know and I brought you an extra You had a voted by Sticker fraud Then we'd have sticker fraud and it'd be another new issue but We have an interesting time in the city of Sheboygan in terms of our political life because we have a number of people running for mayor And we have three primaries just for all the man Aldermanic districts the second third and eighth of my memory serves me correctly And I believe that we have six people running for mayor Including the incumbent and whenever there's a lot of Interest in the issues and some controversy. I think it gets reflected in the fact that you have just more people running I'm interested in your perspective. Let's just start with the mayoral race Why so many people running? What's what's the issue or are there more issues and and any prognostications that you might have about the outcome Well, I I've lived in the town of Sheboygan fall so I can talk from a different perspective But I grew up in Sheboygan and for many years I lived in the city and I do follow City politics because it is of course our biggest municipality in our in our county in the mayor is a very visible political figure One of the interesting things about Getting people interested both in running and in voting is there needs to be sort of a catch issue That comes about studies have shown that the reason people don't vote Is that they don't find a relevance in participating and as a result we saw for many years very dismal return election turnouts And most of it's been due to people just didn't see a connect Well, I think locally you've seen some issues that connect Some on the financial scene for example with the blue harbor financing But also the park issue where the police station is going to be located I always tell people that Never underestimate the interest of the electorate and their ability to to come out and Render their opinion in the voting booth And I think that's what you're seeing to some extent here both in a number of candidates and probably come April the turnout for the mayoral reelection People maybe don't understand school aid formulas and shared revenue formulas and their eyes glazed over when they See municipal budgets, but they understand parks and they understand police stations And when they have a an opinion about what something ought to be They'll come out and express it I think the police station is a bigger issue than maybe some people on the city council Initially thought I think the number of people running for the city council as well as for mayor are reflective of some of these very simple very basic issues that Maybe some of the people who now have that position Didn't think would be as important and as visible As they are today Yeah, the park It's amazing as I move around the pigly wigglies and then walk around the city and move around the city and talk with people It is amazing how people it is an issue right cal where people get some you know, they get something they can understand You know tax period bills of rights and things there, you know, that's nebulous stuff but It really cuts across some really interesting Peoples and groups in sheboygan it seems to me you got obviously the people in the neighborhood In that particular ethnic community And and you've got that but then you've got some folks like myself and not myself personally but people like myself Who really haven't been involved but have a sense of tradition of sheboygan And it's progressive roots and the fact that we've always had a park system that we're proud of and And the idea of even losing one of those Is almost a sense of losing part of our heritage and it's a real As a political scientist would say a salient issue something people can really latch on to And i'm sure that's going to be part of this once we get through the primary Once we get down to two candidates Squaring off. I think that'll be an interesting issue And I think yeah blue harbor of course is continuing to watch I there's some people who sit across over at on the other side of the river and Monitor carefully the number of cars that are over there What kind of business they're doing there because they feel they've lost the war and the marina to begin with And now the second phase of this is something they felt was another you know Round town here's sometimes referred to as you know our pearl harbor rather than blue harbor So it'll be interesting to see how this how all these issues are going to be discussed You know, they're pretty they're pretty vehement about it now Whether they're going to turn out in vault where they get enough people to show up And how the candidates are going to finesse those issues Especially the challenger It'll be interesting and fun to watch I don't really have much more to add but people were invested in The blue harbor that lawyers fee that financial arrangement Some of the Individuals in the city took the city to court and they challenged the things that went on So they've invested their time in the process and then you had the Sheridan part with the Petitions they've invested their time going door to door And that's fairly near to this election cycle. So it's still very relevant to to those people Let me ask you this time you were on the city council for 14 years. Yeah Just imagine This issue having come up at that point Did I mean did you have a sense while when you were on the council that The park system or taking a park away And to be honest as far as I can tell a park that's not used as much perhaps as other parks that it would be It seems to me it's the third rail of shaboyan politics these days Any sense that it would have been like that for you on this? I don't I don't have that sense Because we never addressed the issue or we never had an issue like that The closest we had was the incinerator But that's not a park in other words for those people interested in the environment They wanted a they were concerned with the Landfill being filled up with waste and they were hoping to use the incinerator to burn trash and create energy And so when we suggested to shut down the incinerator because it was a financial albatross And there was a lot of no you can't do that. That's contrary to the environment. So but specifically parks I Never had the issue it's just just following up on when ken said from Talking to people and things that I'm hearing I really am surprised by the Sort of the number one the the strength of people's emotions regarding the park But also the duration. I mean this has been a number of months that this issue has been going on And people are still pretty flamed up about it my treasured mother-in-law who's 83 just a wonderful woman And does pay attention to politics but a lifelong shaboyan resident but not real Involved in the process is horrified that they Are taking the park and just her perspective was very interesting to me and and And I've just heard like ken said, you know, there's a broad range of people who are really having some issues with it And it's lasting which again is a little unusual in In In politics, you know, it's not only the issue lasting, but I think what Tom mentioned people did invest a lot of time in garnering petitions to try to get a referendum And there's another issue that's parallel to this in the county level and that's the ownership of the nursing homes And there too people there's a group of people who have invested time and energy and trying to get a referendum And once that is undertaken, it's a major it's a major project and when they're sort of Maybe just lightly taken By the elected officials who get the or now the recipients of those and said well Well, it's our job to make a decision. You just put your positions here and go away That's almost throwing salt in the wound and I I think as I sit back and observe county board comments and local sometimes city council comments about Referendums, I think you have to be very careful on how you treat people who have Feel very strongly about an issue and go out and garner signatures to try to have greater public input If I were in those political offices, I would probably take much more seriously The efforts to try to get a referendum both on the nursing home issue as well as the park issue Because there are alternatives in those issues. It's not like somehow the City or the county are in a corner and there's no option here But to do this one course of action there are other options and sometimes when you have people asking for input You may find out surprisingly that you might have 80 percent of the people Saying this is the option they want and well if you're in public office and 80 percent of the people are saying This is the avenue and the road you ought to take. You ought to listen to that. That's a message to you And it comes up rarely enough and One of the reasons we elect people is so that they make the decisions and we don't have the direct democracy that a that a referendum would would tend to imply Uh, but from time to time when you before I was an alderman I do recall the remember the garbage pickup issue. Were you here then? curbside versus backyard or back, you know, I guess that went to referendum and it was eight to eight When it came to a council vote and the mayor had to break the tie So it was a major issue people were really concerned about it and it survived we We go to curbside and people got used to it But it was a major issue Sometimes people who are in public office. I think Try to invest in themselves to all encompassing of a wisdom and say I've been elected in the representative democracy to make Determinations, but like I said before there are some issues. That's why we do elect people to study the details of things But there are some things that the people understand and they ought to have a role. Um, I went through the same Ringer so to speak on the Brewer Stadium issue Um, the one reason I didn't vote for it is because one there was no ended attacks It was open ended. Secondly, none of the county boards nor the public were going to have an opinion In some way I says either you get to get let the county boards say yes or no on this issue or you put it to a referendum I said, this is a major Expenditure of public dollars and people relate to this. They understand this And you ought to let them have an input and well, obviously it didn't happen And uh, hence I I made a decision But it was based on the fact that there was too little public input Yeah, and it's the well, you don't want to see sausage or legislation being made It's a gets a little uh, a little messy and you recall it happened, uh at that time the Senator there from the rescuing area right changed his vote and changed his vote and was was he recalled or unelected? He was recalled recalled. Well We now you know, that's why we got people running. It's past the recall time So they're running and maybe they want to replace who's there. Yeah well And those of us who have been elected officials Know that a healthy democracy depends on contested elections so few elections in the state of wisconsin in general Legislative ones in particular were contested in in november But when you're in the when you are the incumbent, it's awfully nice It's just it's just the way it is but We besides and I did count and I I thought there were seven people running for mayor But there are there are six and we'll have two two coming up Any predictions on who's going to be the uh The winner and people will be able to tell because this will be televised afterwards. So Boy the first time in the morning spot I gotta think it's going to be susan perez. I mean, I'm sorry perez and uh, shram Excuse me. We got to think those two are going to be yeah, so they're going to shake down those of the two We face. Yeah, I would think I would think I think the one thing people I'd look at will be the margin of those two Because uh, if you find out the incumbent for example with a very large vote out of six candidates That tells you something about people's comfort level with the incumbent However, if maybe another major challenger comes out and has many more votes even than the incumbent that shows There's people are starting to gather around an opponent So you can you'll be able to read a little more into this besides the fact that you're going to have two people Debating for the office come come april. That's probably a light turnout But uh, if you get less the incumbent gets less than 50 you could say well Yeah, that's in trouble. That's a question That was a question I was about to ask is if you take a look at You know all the for lack of a better word Anti-shram votes if you put them all together And I wonder if one can do that and get a sense of what kind of strength the challenger is going to have I think it's it's difficult too difficult to extrapolate because if the voter turnout is Is very very small Once You know, there's just too few a little of a sample is what it amounts to to really extrapolate from that But if you have a high voter turnout, which doesn't appear to be the prediction in this primary on this february 15th But uh, it is something if there were a large turnout that you could probably extrapolate to say Yeah, indeed this person is In trouble for example, it's my sense that with um with the low I I agree it'll be shram and prez although I have no idea how What the percentages are going to be but I do with the low voter turnout and I I do think that the issues I mean people are obviously very um Interested in the shared and park issue while being supportive of the police station at the same time I don't think any of us is hearing boy. We shouldn't have a new police station. I think we that has been antiquated for years Yeah, I mean that's I mean no one can doubt that we need a new police station um But other issues that you know that the city faces shared services The you know are ever increasing taxes and so forth. I don't think any of those issues has really been drawn out by the The the remaining two candidates, so I think the rest of the political year is going to be interesting or the political season Um, we have in the second all dramatic district This is mine uh incumbent don van akron who has been on the city council for a really long time if my memory serves me correctly Being challenged by uh, renais sushi well the owner of the Bed and breakfast down the block for me we we called the old rice mansion and um a newcomer Who I think has been actually running in my district. He's been working hard dustin havens Any ideas comments on that particular race? I don't know much about the the candidates except uh, oh What is the what is the motivation for challenging the incumbent? I guess is what I was was talking and thinking about I think the park issues involved and I think the blue harbor issues involved Sort of I think the standard menu that the incumbent was in place when these decisions were made And therefore challengers sort of say I want to be a player at the table Because I didn't agree with some of the things that were done previously Well, renais sushi was the one who brought I think suit on the paying lawyers fees and would subsequently Uh Turned out in her favor in the sense that we didn't have to pay the large 400 something thousand We only had to pay 200 something thousand So she was involved in that and of course her The incumbent is don van Akron and he supported paying the the The dollars and to move on and she was fighting it in court I just think it's interesting because particularly in shabuagan. I think name recognition is important So we have two of the great political names In the community of van Akron and And in a sushi and so I I think that race is going to be very interesting But well if haven is been campaigning in your district, then that's an unknown But but for as far as signs go sushi and Van Akron have the sign one the sign war We know all about those sign wars Don't Third all-demandic district Dennis bowman is being A challenge by job Jose and scott luandoski I don't know much about that. You know again talking about great old political names in shabuagan county Jose certainly qualifies as that name Any comments Now I don't know anything about the race. I had Edmund Jose is a student. He's a very good student He's a bright guy bright very bright individual and I'm glad he's running I mean that's part of the process one of these times he's going to win and then in the eighth all-demandic We have maryland montemayor genie yench and jason shane Maryland's only been in office two years. This is her second term I think tends to vote a little less with the mayor perhaps than some of the other older people of my Reading of the issues is correct Here might be an instance where people are motivated by the issues Not so much as opposing the can the incumbent But just wanting to get involved because of the magnitude that they and the feelings depth of their feelings on any on those issues Yeah, you would think though maryland's been maryland's votes have been on Not supportive of the mayor on some of these issues At least along the park issue from what I can understand So I'm interesting why these challenge why the challenges are coming out if usually you get this kind of interest in a race when you've got people unhappy with the status quo and although sometimes, you know people are looking to You know just strategically replace people who aren't voting The way that you want them to I mean, I don't know let me let me go back just to be one of your first questions Uh, why did I run? I mean I I was involved in campaigns and campaigns And I decided I was always helping somebody else Why don't I run myself? I had no issue But I just thought I'm gonna run So we just come off a presidential election people are involved in politics They may have no issues and they may just say I want to run. I want to get involved That could happen I mean there just so happens that a person that might feels the same as the incumbent just finds out that Well, they're they don't if they want to run they don't have any choice They can write it down against somebody who they've been voted for previously and philosophically agree with so Yeah, and it's you know, uh, it is Running in an aldermanic district is really a manageable First step. I mean you only need to get 20 names on a on on your nomination papers Uh, which is it doesn't take that much time and it's really direct governing The distance between you and the voter and you and the the constituent is really pretty narrow I would assume as opposed to being a state senator for example, so Interesting any um any prognostications on the aldermanic races. We're running out of time here already Well, I think it would be interesting to move as you move down from the mayor's race to see the incumbent Council persons and who voted in in a certain way that engendered opposition How well they do And whether there's a correlation between how well the mayor's incumbent is doing as well as incumbent city council people And whether they're in trouble because of the whole decisions of the body politic on sharden park or blue harbor or whatever All right. Well an interesting first show we had a lot to talk about it's not a shy group So thank you and we will meet again