 Hey, welcome everyone. This is me four years ago when I started, now I'm in the shape, but I started product school here in San Francisco. And then we also published a book called The Product Book, which is the framework that we use to teach product management. It's a book that's funny. It's been almost 10 years working in digital products and finally built my first physical product. It took me two years, one year to grade it and then another year just to deal with different vendors, editors, publishers and so on until the book was real. But I wasn't the only author and this is important because a lot of instructors who participate in product school were able to participate in the book as well. If you look out there, you will see that there are so many articles and books and forums about how to hack the interview, which is an important part if you want to get a job. But you can't start just by hacking your interview. You also need to know how to do the job. So this book is like a high level overview about like the whole cycle that we go to build digital products, like websites or mobile apps. And then of course we try to be as tactical as possible showing examples, templates and tools that we use on a daily basis. So it's not just like a nice medium article. It's deep enough for you to feel comfortable doing this. By the way, is there any product manager in the room? Not yet? Any one? Cool. I come from a technical background and that's actually my path. I was a software engineer and then I actually didn't know what I was doing. I knew that I was good enough at coding but I wasn't my passion. I wanted to get out of the engineering room and try to understand how to work with business, how to make money, how this whole thing worked. And as I continued working in my career, I learned that there was something called product management and then eventually I was able to break into that. So after almost 10 years doing this for so many different companies in different countries, I realized that I kind of learned on the go. There wasn't a solution for me and that's why I started product school. And this is not just for me. If you ask this question to other senior level product managers, you will see that most of them didn't have like a structured path. Some of them went to business school, some of them went to engineering school, some of them started a company, some of them got promoted internally. But there was not like a one single answer that fits them all. And that's what inspired a lot of us to build a platform to teach the next generation of product leaders. Anyway, it's not that easy. So this was like my shortcut but in reality, this is my real path. So I was student once, I then had to work as a software engineer. Then I started my first company and I realized that there were so many things that I had to learn. So I decided to go back to school. In this case, I went to business school. So I kind of went from one stream to the other. And then after business school, I worked as a product manager and then I started my second company and so on. So I think after going through different experiences, one very, very technical and the other one very, very high level. I realized that my passion was right in the middle, like product school. And I guess one of the reasons why you are here is because you're also kind of feeling that this is like a good happy medium as a hybrid between being not too technical and at the same time not too high level. So anyway, I'm curious to know the background of the audience. So how many of you come from a technical background slash know how to code? Okay, I like that hand like this. Did you raise your hand too? Cool. So for the ones that didn't raise their hand, how many of you consider yourself on the business side, including marketing, sales, ops, finance? Okay, some people raise hands twice, which is amazing. I mean, that's true. That's truly incredible. Is there any background, any person that didn't feel identified with any of those two buckets? Wow. I mean hardware and design. Yeah, very cool. Cool. Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. But my point with this question was to prove that there is not just one single path. Of course, majority of people will either come from an engineering background or from a business background and also depending on the location. Because if I ask this same question in our campus in New York, you'll see that over 70% of the room raise their hand when I ask about business. When I ask this same question in our campus in Los Angeles, we get a lot of people that come from creative industries and design. And so it really depends on where you are. Right now, we are in 14 locations across the US and also in Toronto and London. So it's really interesting to see how this role evolves and also kind of shapes depending on where you are and where the companies are. But this is headquarters. That's where most of the things happen in terms of tech and in terms of product management. And I would like to start by just defining product. So we are played by the same rules. So this is the official horrible definition that you can find on the Wikipedia. And I don't want you to read it because I don't think it's going to add much value. Now it's when everybody's trying to read, so I'm just going to block it. No, I mean, yeah, when this was created, probably product management didn't exist. So it was like the old school approach of like project management, if you will, where yes, you gather requirements, you explain the different stakeholders, what they have to do, you keep track of the process and so on. But in reality, especially in software, I prefer to look at it in a more visual way. And product management is right in between business, design and engineering. So what you said that you did design engineering is perfect because you kind of combine two of those areas at least. And by the way, we're talking about software. So the way I mean websites and mobile apps for the most part. Yes, smartwatch apps, iPad apps and so on. But I'm not talking about 3D printers. I'm not talking about building hospitals. I'm talking about software. So when you see engineering, I mean software engineering. When I say design, mostly mean UX design. And when I say business, I mostly mean digital marketing. Of course, depending on the business, you may want to add other areas, right? Like if it's a very legal tech company, you may want to add another area that is legal, or I'm sure there's always an interaction with operations, with sales, with customer support. But the biggest areas of interaction are marketing, design and engineering. We're clear. By the way, since audiences are not too big tonight, we're happy to take some questions along the way. So you don't worry about waiting until the end to ask. Feel free to raise your hand and we can discuss. So as I mentioned before, the book that we created was inspired in the curriculum of the school. And that's why it's called the product book. So in the presentation tonight, I extracted some of the main chapters and learnings. So I'll be sharing them with you. Some of those learnings are about your career path as a product manager, about the actual work that you do as a product manager, and so on. So I hope you find this interesting. And if you want to learn more about, you actually want to read the book, you can find it on Amazon. If you have the Amazon Kindle Unlimited subscription, you can get a copy for free, like the Kindle copy for free. And I think if you want a hard copy, it is less than $20. Anyway, let's start with paths to PM, similar to what we started discussing at the beginning. These five options that you see here are actually the five most common backgrounds that we've seen based on our student base. So this is data collected from the graduates of our school that helped us understand, you know, what are the options. So obviously, number one is software engineering, but it's not the only option. Option number two is entrepreneurship. And I would like to clarify this one a little bit better, because it could be confusing. When I say entrepreneurship, I don't mean that you have to work full time for your own startup, or you even need to be very successful with your own startup. What I mean by entrepreneurship is that you need to have that curiosity to show that you were able to build something and take some initiative, could be as part of your current job, or could be outside of your job, could be a side project as simple as your own personal website, or maybe a project that you created while you participated in a hackathon during a weekend with people. Have you ever participated in a hackathon? Okay, so you know what I'm talking about. That counts, especially when you try to break to PM for the first time. If you are trying to get your second or third PM job, your side projects are irrelevant, because hopefully you have like a real project that you can show. But at the very beginning, these side projects make huge difference between people who say they want versus people who are actually doing something about it. So of course, if you were successful and you were able to hire people and grow a team, that's a huge bonus point. But entrepreneurship is not just that. And if you know that you want to become a product manager, don't think that, oh, you need to go and start a company. So you go then to an interview and say, I started a company. That doesn't work this way. You won't start a company. Go and start a company. If you want to apply to a product management job, go and apply to this product management job. Just keep in mind that whatever entrepreneurial experience you have will count towards whatever you want to do in the future. I mentioned consulting. And of course, this consulting is a very broad term. This is huge in New York, as I mentioned. It's also pretty big here and other areas of the US. Mostly management consulting, but it could also be innovation consulting, IT consulting, or pretty much any role where you have to interact with clients and you need to understand their needs, gather requirements, go to the drawing board, work with your specialist team, and then come up with a solution. That is a huge part of what product managers do. The biggest difference probably when you work in a consulting environment is that you are used to work with different clients. So you go on a project-by-project basis. You go work with a client and solve a specific problem, move on to the next client. When you work as a product manager, technically, you own something. It's kind of like your baby. So you don't leave to the next baby. You own this thing and then you iterate it. So you do more and more iterations over the same thing versus when you are in an agency or in a consulting firm, you usually do less iterations because once something is working, then you move on to the next thing. So there's a lot of frameworks that overlap there. So if you come from any of those words, know that you can definitely transfer to the product management work. So it's a good thing to know. That's why consultants in general make good product managers. They're also fast learners that used to use data and also interact with people on a daily basis, which is a deal for people maybe that come from a more technical background that don't have the opportunity to interact with non-technical people on a daily basis. I see some people smiling. I come from that type of background. So I kind of had to learn the hard way. And I also mentioned project and program management because this is another type of team at the end of the day. And I want to know is there any project or program manager or business analyst or scrum master in the room? Okay. So you probably know what I'm going to be talking about here. A little bit there and also depends on how your company defines product. You may be doing a lot of product management stuff already, maybe with a different title. If you're in a scenario where the company has a product manager and a project manager, usually the project manager is more tactical is the person in charge of the timelines in charge of resources and in charge of making sure things happen according to plan and kind of correct deviations on a daily basis. It's a very, very tactical role while a product manager would be more focused on the roadmap for the next months and also additional interaction with other stakeholders, not just engineers like designers or marketers. If you're in a very small environment, the product manager is also acting as that project manager. So keep that in mind. So there's a lot of overlap. So if you're already in a similar position like business analyst or scrum master or project manager or program manager, it's a really good stepping stone towards a product management role. There's a lot of overlap there. So that's good to know. And then I also added marketing because digital marketing is becoming more and more and more relevant and you can see that marketers are not just people who do social media or PR or content. This also includes a pretty big technical component. So even though you are not going to be coding on a daily basis, you need to know something about coding and how to work with engineers. So people that are on the marketing front that are getting a little more technical have a good chance to eventually become product managers. Anyway, I guess most of us feel identified in any of those five buckets that I just mentioned. So I just briefly touch upon another five buckets because the point I want to make here is that you can even become a product manager if you don't come from any of those five. Like I remember one of our students, especially here in San Francisco, he was a lawyer and he proved all of us wrong. He said that he wanted to become a product manager and he made it happen. And he took our product management course and also our coding course. Like he really wanted to get off his comfort zone and learn more about how the tech world works. He ended up getting a job as a rocket lawyer, which makes total sense because how many lawyers are out there that understand law and a little coding and a little product management. So that was like a good way for all of us to understand that this is something that you can do no matter where you're coming from. And of course, you also need to identify companies that are a good fit for you. Like if you just do the same example, don't think that person would make a great product manager at an extremely technical machine learning company. Usually someone who comes from that type of backgrounds would make a better PM. But at the same time, I don't think a traditional software engineer would become a great product manager at a law firm that's tech because those are very different industries. So anyway, these are just other options. And you mentioned that you have some background in design engineering. I also added this as hardware engineering. That's the most common one we get in our campus in Silicon Valley. That's great. I mean, if you understand how to build physical products, I'm sure you are going to be able to figure out how to build digital products. But at the same time, people who only come from that software background, it is way harder for them to understand how to build physical products. So I always tell the people who come from hardware, there are many industries that could be a good fit for you, maybe as a hybrid in between software and hardware, like wearables, IoT, voice recognition, or pretty much any company that has a software or hardware component. One of our instructors in our Silicon Valley campus, he's a director of product at GoPro. And he's working on the software side, like the actual app that users use. But he has a hardware background, and that helped him merge both worlds. So if you come from a hardware background, you can apply for those type of roles. If you don't really come from a hardware background, it is better to focus more on a pure software background. And then I also included finance, ops. I would like to briefly mention customer support. By the way, there's so much space here, if you want to move forward, there's so much space here. I briefly mentioned customer support and QA. Is there anyone who works in a support or QA role? Okay, cool. So the reason why I mentioned this is because as a product manager, you obviously work on the problem and the solution of many things. You have the luxury of picking what problem you are going to tackle first. Someone has to kind of call the shots and decide what to do. Obviously, you don't have unlimited resources, so you always have to decide, okay, should we fix this bug or should we add this new feature? What should we do next? When in customer support, you usually have a queue with different bugs and you have to get them fixed. You don't have that luxury of picking what bugs you are going to fix for the most part. So it's a big overlap between fixing problems and obviously product management, but if you are in a position of support or QA and are really serious about making that jump into product, I think one of the things that could help is to not just focus on getting to inbox zero for the sake of just removing all the bugs, but also thinking ahead of time and trying to understand patterns. If you see that you are always getting the same type of problem, maybe you can come up with a solution to mitigate that problem in the future and propose that to management. Or if you can even try to propose a solution and create some wireframes and go to the product manager and say, hey, I'm kind of the voice of the customer. Most of them angry. That's why they go to support. But if you don't just settle and fix your bugs, but also try to propose solutions, that is very valuable. I've promoted people from support to product, and I've seen companies doing the same. I know a company called Optimizely here in San Francisco, they're huge in Amy testing. They also promoted multiple people in support and QA to product for that same reason. I mentioned design here. And my personal bet is that they are going to be more designers breaking into product in the coming months and years because it is true that design is a huge component. When I started this presentation, I asked you if you were kind of technical or business. And I intentionally didn't ask if there were any designers in the room because I kind of expected the answer. But it's true that it's becoming more and more popular. I don't care if you don't come from a design background, at some point you will need to get an eye for design because you're going to be working with them. But if you come from a design background, at some point, they will also need to get a little bit more technical so they can understand the whole picture. So that's why I mentioned that here. LA has like the biggest concentration of designers turned PMs that we've seen in our school. Cool. Any question until this point so far in terms of paths to PM? Good. Okay. But let's talk about other PM roles. Because when I say PM, I mean product manager, but you saw that there were also project managers or program managers. So if you look at this graph now, this is the same as we did before, but assuming that the company gets a little bigger. So let's just kind of backtrack for a second and imagine that we are starting a company. When the company has, let's say, up to five people, more or less, you don't really need a full-time product manager. It is usually one of the founders who's acting as the product person in addition to other things. Usually the CEO is that product person. That was me. That's kind of how I learned product management as a product CEO. But obviously, it's not sustainable. It gets to a point where you get enough engineers, designers that you can't really manage the product full-time and raise money and recruit and do sales, the ability to delegate. So usually when you get to those five to seven engineers, when you make that first full-time PM higher, that could come from an internal promotion or that could come from the outside. I've seen a lot of internal promotions and that's actually how I did most of my first PM hires because it is so sensitive to give up your baby, that you want to give it to someone that you know that cares about it. And if you look at that customer support person who is very curious about not just doing his or her job or that designer who is half technical or that engineer who is also thinking about business and not just code. So you can see some of those indicators to make that internal promotion. But of course, sometimes you also need to, you can't just grow your PM team by making internal promotions. At some point you also have to bring people from the outside. So just look at this graph for a second. This is exactly the same graph that we had before where product management is in the middle and then we have these three big groups of business, design and engineering. The difference is that I added some additional fields in between those circles because after that first PM, let's say the company keeps growing and now we have 20, 25 engineers, you can't just survive with one PM for all of the engineers. So there are multiple ways to go about growing your product. And there is not like one good approach versus one bad approach, it really depends on the context. One way to go about it is if you split products. Let's say you have a website product and a mobile product. Technically you could have a product manager for mobile and a product manager for web. And you may share some resources like some engineers, but at the end of the day you could have like a lead for each of those products. That's one way to go about it. Another option would be to have a senior product manager and more of a junior product manager working for both products at the same time where that junior PM could also be acting as kind of a project manager in many cases. And that senior product manager could also own more than the roadmap and the overall strategy for that product. That could be another approach. A third approach that I've seen, especially with technical products is think of a technical product. Let's say it's a very complicated product that has a lot of stuff going on on the backend and a lot of work that happens with engineers. You could have a technical product manager that focuses more on the backend and another product manager who's more focused on the front end and the user interactions. Maybe that person is more business slash design driven and the technical product manager is more engineering driven. So you will see that and it really depends on each company. And of course as companies grow like imagine LinkedIn, how many product managers they have get to a point where you start having product managers for even pages at some point. There's a product manager for LinkedIn profile. There's a product manager for LinkedIn recruiter. There's a product manager for LinkedIn messages. And then you also have LinkedIn product managers focused on monetization. So it's definitely a field that is growing and then you can only understand how it works by asking questions and reading the job description because there's no two companies that will have the exact same definition for the same title. But what we can all agree is that we all have the same graph of okay I'm in the middle of multiple groups for sure in those groups are engineering design and business and maybe others. When you can just give one product to one product manager and you still need to grow those products, you will see that sometimes you can have those stepping stones I call it. So the project manager is that intersection in between engineering and product. Usually someone who comes from a technical background like if you are a designer or a marketer there's no way you are going to become a technical project manager. The same way if you are technical there is no way you are going to become a product designer. Like those intermediate roles that you see here project manager, product designer or product marketing manager are good for people who come from those backgrounds respectively. So let's say you come from engineering, project manager could be a good option. Let's say you come from design, product designer could be a good option. Say you come from business, product marketing manager could be a good option. Not all the companies have those roles so when those roles don't exist it's usually the product manager who's doing it but keep in mind that when the company is big enough this could be a good alternative. You can eventually make this transition in multiple steps. Is there any product marketing manager or product designer or project manager in the room? Someone who feels kind of in between? Okay, where are you? Product marketing. Okay, so I mean this is pretty similar. I can define product marketing or project manager if you're interested a little bit more but I think this is a good representation of how you grow a product team and how your options are not just getting the title product manager. There are other intermediate roles that could be a good fit for you to start. And if you're in a very very small startup you may be the VP of product while in reality you are not managing anybody. So this only makes sense when the company is big enough. Good. Any question about this so far? All right, well let's talk about the PM career path because we always talk about PM PM PM product manager. Let's break into product manager but then what? What happens once you get that job? What are your options? So let's talk about it. I see two main paths. One is the entrepreneurial path which doesn't have much structure. Basically you will see a lot of PMs that at some point leave their companies to build products for themselves and they become founders of companies but at the same time you will see founders of companies who eventually join big organizations as product managers. So it's a lot of overlap between being a CEO of a small organization and being a product manager at a larger organization but that's not the only option. There is also a more traditional structure option within a corporation where you start as a junior person and then you continue growing as a more senior and senior. So let's take a look at it. This is the path for structured companies from the bottom up. So what you see here is usually the most entry-level position, APM, and then it goes up. So let's define what's APM? Associate Product Manager. That's very common terminology and it was coined by Marissa Major, one of the VPs of product at Google when she was there and then she became the CEO of Yahoo. So the reason why they started this APM terminology, this is almost 10 years ago, is because there was no product school, literally, like they were trying to generate more product managers and this wasn't that popular. So at some point they decided to train some of their engineers internally and make them product managers. So this was a selective program for anywhere between 30 to 40 engineers. Within Google they would rotate them through different products like Google Maps. By the way, I'm going to be sharing this slide with all of you. So of course, feel free to take photos, but I'll give you the link to the slide here and you can check out all the information or you can also tweet if you want. That would be great. So I was saying APM was coined by Marissa Major when she was at Google and this was a 3 to 12 month program for engineers who wanted to become product managers. They would spend different amounts of time on different products like AdWords, Maps, Web, Search, Mobile, whatever. And then after that training period they would decide or the company would decide if they extend the money offer as a product manager. So this same concept has been acquired by many other big companies. So you can see Facebook has a training program. They call it rotational program. Amazon has it into it. Has it Yelp, LinkedIn, Yahoo, obviously as Marissa and I went there and many others. Each company will have their own requirements. For the most part, this is for people with less than three years of professional experience usually with technical backgrounds and they're very, very exclusive. So good to know that that's an option, but that's not the only option. And I've seen other companies that they hire an associate product manager and that doesn't mean that they're going to give you a 12 month training program. They could hire you as an APM and maybe that means junior product manager. But it's usually the most entry level position in product. And I try to represent the salary expectations with open table dollars because I can give you an estimate about San Francisco, but obviously if I ask the same question in Denver or Boston or even LA or New York where we have campuses, the answers may be very different depends on company size and so on. Yeah, APM is usually the first one. Then you have product manager, although I've seen a lot of people breaking into product directly by getting a product management title. Some companies don't have an APM role. It's just PM, which is totally fine. And then you have senior PM. The difference between PM and senior PM, it's not that much. It's basically the amount of years of experience. Some companies may give you additional responsibilities or maybe they put you in charge of more relevant products. But at the end of the day, as a PM or senior PM, you are going to be working directly with engineers, designers, and marketers. The biggest difference happens after senior PM. When you go from senior PM to director of PM or group PM, the company will call it in a different way. That is key because at that point you become a manager of managers. So instead of, so you will be working with product managers who work with engineers, designers, and marketers. You see the difference? As a PM or as a senior PM, you work directly with engineers, designers, marketers. As a group PM, you are a manager of managers, more of a people manager. And you have to decide. Do you enjoy action and being very hands-on with your engineers, designers, and marketers? Or do you enjoy more being on the strategy side, focusing more on recruiting, setting up vision, creating processes, working on culture, rather than defining features and hassling on the first row. After you, but those are the main differences. Of course, as you continue growing, you can see roles as VP of product or CPO, chief product officer. Not all the companies have the same titles, but it's cool to see that more companies adopt the term CPO because traditionally product used to report to marketing, used to report to a CMO. It wasn't that obvious that there was a marketing team and a product team separated from that. Now it is very obvious that there is like a CPO or VP of product with a direct report to CEO. And they also added CEO because it's through that, especially in tech, the CEO is the ultimate product person. And most of the successful companies that you know, like Airbnb, Facebook, Google, and many others, if you look at the profile of the CEO, it's a former product person. And they're still pretty hands-on with products. So I put either $4 or $1 because it's true when you are in a smaller organization as the founder, you are doing a lot of product stuff, you are learning a lot. Maybe you are not making a lot of money yet, but that's something that will pay off, definitely. So that's kind of the ladder and the path for product. Some companies may have a CPO role, in which case I assume it's a C-level title with a direct report to CEO and maybe VP of product under that CPO, while other companies may not have that CPO title, and in that case the VP son of the highest ranked PM with the airport CEO. Exactly. It's like when you see companies that have a VP, senior VP and executive VP, so it's a way to kind of create titles when the companies are too large. So that's why I put it in the same category. Ahead of product, it's another term. Product lead, it's another term. So it's a lot of confusion. And depending on the actual size of the product team, you will see, okay, but who is the ultimate product person? How is this team structured? That's one of the questions that you should definitely ask in an interview to know, okay, how is this structured? What does product management mean here? What's the career path? Well, let's talk about types of product, because even though we said that this is about software product management, software is very broad and there are different options. And I created some categories just to give you an idea, but those are not the only categories. So when you look at a software product, you can try to identify, okay, is this a B2C type of product or is it that B2B? Is this a large organization or is it the startup? Is this a social network or is this an e-commerce platform? Or is this a marketplace? Because each of those categories or products have different dynamics. When you work in a marketplace, you need to understand supply and demand in a different way than when you are working in an e-commerce where you control supply, or when you are working on a SaaS product, or when you are working on a B2B product. So it is important to know that there are different options. And by the way, it's not that one product belongs to just one category. One product could belong to multiple categories. Let me just give you an example. Let's say Airbnb. Say someone works as an engineer on the mobile site, on the iOS app for Airbnb. Well, Airbnb is a marketplace. So technically, you understand the dynamics of a marketplace and that's something that you could apply to other industries, maybe transportation with Uber or others. Like the dynamics of the marketplace, of course, there's always differences depending on the industry, but you understand that there is supply and demand and how it works. At the same time, I said that this person was working in the mobile app, the iOS experience. Well, if you're working on a mobile product, you know that there are certain differences with a website product. So even though, yes, it is Airbnb, but if you work in iOS, I'm sure you know a lot and you could reapply some of that to an iOS app in another industry, let's say e-commerce or fintech. Why not? And also, Airbnb is B2C for the most part. So you also have a sense of how B2C works, which is very, very different from B2B. The reason why I'm saying that, I'm showing you basically three types of categories for you to identify Airbnb is because when you go out there and apply to different companies, especially if you don't have an official product management title, they will want to see what type of value you can bring to the table. What's not going to happen is that a recruiter is going to look at a LinkedIn profile or a resume and say, well, this person has no experience in product management. There is nothing that is telling me the opposite, but there is no experience in the specific industry. But you know what, I'm going to give this person a chance because we are close to holidays. No. So it's on each of you to not lie, but definitely feature some of that experience. And so I can see some value and at least give you the chance. And of course, in the phone interview, I can talk more. And I'll give you more specific examples about how you can feature some of that on a LinkedIn profile or resume later on. But I just want to kind of open your mind to show you that the fact that you don't have the official product management title yet, first doesn't mean that you haven't done product. I'm sure you've done a lot of product depending on where you work and how you look at these products. And two, there are many other things that you can relate that could apply towards your product experience when you apply or try to qualify for certain jobs. And that's exactly what we do in addition to teaching you product and certifying you is also helping you highlight some of your previous experience so other people know that you can do it. Cool. No questions so far? That's great. That's easy for me. Well, let's talk about the perfect PM because it is true that you as a generalist and product at the end of the day, you are a generalist. You are not going to be the best at absolutely anything. You just need to be good enough at everything. Even if you come from a very specific background, let's say you come from a sales background, you may be amazing at sales, but if you move to product and you spend more time working with engineers or designers, at some point there will be people that are better than you at sales because you can't spend 100% of your time doing that. Or if you come from engineering and you used to code and then you move on to product, at some point there will be engineers that are better than you at new technologies because you are not spending 100% of your time coding, which is something important to know. This is a generalist role that is going to open your mind to show you different options and kind of teach you enough, but at the same time, you are not going to be the best at absolutely anything. You are not going to be coding, nor designing, nor selling. So what are some of these cross functional sketches that you need to know so you can get a job? So for us, there are three. And again, this is based on data. This is not just a survey that we did on the street or an article that we found from Google or Medium.com. It's actually, once we analyzed the background of our students, especially the students who were very successful at getting PM jobs, we saw that this is not random. So in addition to putting a lot of work, they also had some skill sets that helped them pass certain interviews. So number one is technical background. Number two is the main expertise. Number three is communication skills. So I'm going to explain each of them, and I'm also going to give you tactical examples on how you can acquire each of them and also how you can prove them. So the first one is technical background. And here what I say is that you don't need to have a CS degree in order to become a product manager. Although if you do have a CS degree, that's great, good for you. That's a bonus point. You don't need to be an amazing programmer. You don't need to be able to code like a pro. I mean, you know, that's great. What is true that for me, the very minimum is you need to feel comfortable speaking tech with engineers or earning their respect. You need to understand basic terms and you can, you should be as tactical as technical as possible. So let me give you an example. I would like for a PM to know the difference between front end and back end. I would like for a PM to know what's technical debt, how to make certain trade-offs. Really understand when engineers talk. So you can really know what's doable and call them out if you think that something is way off. You should, the more you know about technology, the more you know about your options. So you are going to be working in tech, you need to speak tech. How much tech do I need to speak? Well, it really depends on the type of company. If it's a hyper technical company, the bare minimum for them will be maybe a PhD in math. But if you are talking about an e-commerce startup that is selling shoes online and your job is to, you know, optimize the business model for that, for that website and certain workflows and understand data so you can improve conversion. Well, you should definitely understand the basic tech stack and how it works and how certain things work, but you don't need to be a CES degree undergrad. Okay. Now, keep this in mind because it's important. I think that having a technical background gives you a leg up in many ways because you can build something without having to ask for help. If you come from that type of background, you obviously connect with your engineers at a very good level because you know exactly how they feel. But that's something that you can also acquire if you don't come from that. What's never going to happen is that someone will hire you or you will grow a lot in your career without having any technical background at all because at some point you are going to, you know, feel that friction with your engineers. So how can you acquire some of that knowledge? Well, I showed you a couple of options here and depending on your level of commitment and budget, you can decide. I think the easiest one is on, well, the easiest one. The cheapest one is online. I don't think it's the easiest. And the reason why is because I don't think there is value in the content itself. You can find a lot of free tutorials about how to build a website, how to build a mobile app, pretty much how to build whatever, just Google it. And yes, I showed you some websites. You can use Treehouse, you can use iTunes University, Code Academy, Code School, and many others. The challenge is that you really have to commit, you know, learning how to code, learning tech is not about just sitting down and watching a video and following a recipe as if you were cooking a Blue Apron recipe. That requires additional commitment. And that's why it's so easy to sign up and so easy to give up. That's why, you know, saying, oh, I got a batch on Code Academy doesn't really count much. Because how can I know that you actually did it? And how comfortable would you feel applying, you know, what you just learned in this video in a real setting? Anyway, I think it's a good starting point, right, just to see, but know that there are other options. The other extreme is offline. And I'm sure you're aware of coding bootcamps, right, that they teach you how to code to the point where a lot of them will even promise you a coding job. Which for the most part is true. I mean, if you spend three months full time on $15,000, someone will hire you as a coder, because it's a very specific hard skill. But I don't think you need to go through that type of ordeal if you know that you want to be a manager in tech. Of course, you need to know some coding, but you don't need to become an engineer first, then try to become a manager. So that's why we came up with a course that is like a middle ground. It is offline, so there is commitment. It's not just watching a video, but it's not three months, $15,000. It's basically two months part time. And it's $4,000. And it's not about giving you a master's degree in JavaScript or in AngularJS. It's more about teaching you how to build a fully functional website using the different technologies. So you will not be the best of anything, but you will understand how to use HTML, CSS, JavaScript, what's responsive, how it works. Let's talk about backend engineering, what's Ruby and Rails, how it works, what's GitHub, what are some of the, what's the lingo that engineers use, what are some of the trade-offs, how do you push code from a GitHub repository onto a AWS server? And how does this whole really cycle work? Like, just give me a real experience of how my engineers work and let me actually try so you can build something that is part of your portfolio. But at the end of the day, it's not that intense where you could consider yourself a software engineer, because that's not the point. As a product manager, you are not going to be coding on a daily basis. So there are other options that are a hybrid model, like Thinkful or Block.io. They give you all the content online and then they schedule one-on-one meetings with technical mentors on a weekly basis over Hangout or Skype. So it's a good way to keep yourself accountable. Whatever works for you, at the end of the day, you just need to kind of put it in the calendar and stick to it. What's never going to happen is just by reading articles or watching videos, you're magically going to say that you have a good enough technical background. In addition to these resources, you can also ask your engineers, if you work in a company and they have engineers, why not take one of your engineers out for lunch and just ask them questions? As basic as you want, as something that's as basic as, hey, why is your screen black and mine is white? Or, you know, things like that. What is front end? What is back end? What's our tech stack? And why? Why are we using Ruby on Rails and not Python? Trying to ask those questions are totally legit. And that will give you an idea of what you don't know, basically. And then for me, option number five, it doesn't even count. Like do yourself. I don't think there's no excuse these days not to go online and Google something. So don't try to do it yourself. Like one of my engineers actually became an engineer by co-ing, by reading books. And that was, you know, last century. But these days you can definitely, there are easier options for you to learn how to go. How can you prove it? Because honestly, these days showing that you got a degree 10, 15 years ago, it's not as relevant as showing a product that you built, or a GitHub account that you have, or a hackathon competition that you won, or, you know, something like that these days are going to be way more powerful in tech. So if you have a site project, that's the very best way to prove your technical background. Doesn't need to be pretty. You just need to work. So basic mobile app on the App Store, basic website on AWS server. Great. You don't want to make it easier. You could start with WordPress or Squarespace or any of these content management systems that let you build something without code. Of course, it's not like that's going to be enough. But that would be a good starting point for you to understand how to purchase a domain, how to purchase a hosting server, how to connect both, how do I make a change in my computer? And what does it take to push it online? You know, like, some things that may be obvious for some people are not that obvious for everybody. So whatever that is, especially you're trying to break into PM for the first time, you need to show me something. You can't just tell me I took a video on Udemy, and now I know Python. That doesn't fly. Let's talk about domain expertise. This is another key question that I get a lot. It's about, do I need to have an MBA? And my answer is no. The same way you don't have to have a CS degree. You don't have to have an MBA. You don't have an MBA or a new business degree. That's good. That's a bonus point. But you don't need that. The same way you don't need to be a professional salesperson. I mean, if you know how to sell, that's also great. The bare minimum for me in terms of the main expertise is to really, really, really understand your product, your market, your competitors, to really be obsessed with everything that's happening with the product. And at every level, so you need to be that go-to person when someone has a question about competitors. What about market? What about trends? What about, you know, like, that person who truly cares. At the end of the day, you are going to be an advocate for many things in your product. So it's really hard to be a great advocate if you don't truly believe in your product. Ideally, everybody in the company should believe in the mission of the company. But we all know that's not always true. And if I had to decide, I would rather have a specialist not believe in my mission instead of a product manager, because the product manager is acting as the gatekeeper for many other functions. And when you are trying to get the buy-in from engineers, designers, and try to explain your vision for the next months, and you don't truly believe in it, it's going to be very hard for a specialist to be like, you know what, it is very true. Let's go and do it. It has to come from you. And that's something that you can definitely learn, but only if you want. I would never try to become a product manager for an industry or a product that I don't care. I know it sounds easy to say, especially when you are in a situation where you already have a job, and maybe if you are already looking for jobs and you're more open to take other options, but it's true. You can never become a great product manager if you don't care about your product. I'm not saying that every product manager should be a user of the product, because that's impossible. If you're working on, I don't know, car insurance products, and you don't own a car, well, you know, you can try to connect as much as possible, but if you ride a bus, but you are working on car insurance, that's not going to fly. But obviously, once you have more experience as a product manager, you can also transfer that knowledge across different industries. But especially when you are trying to get that first PM job, I would definitely focus on an industry that you already know for two reasons, because obviously it will be easier, but it's also easier for you to explain. Like if I don't see that you have a lot of PM experience on your resume, but I see that you have a lot of experience in the specific industry, I can be curious about that. If you work, let's say as an example, in marketing, in an e-commerce company, it's going to be almost impossible to get a PM job in a fintech company. You are switching roles and industries at the same time. If you really hate your current industry for whatever reason and you want to switch industries, it'll be easier to move to make a horizontal move, go from, in this case, marketing e-commerce to marketing fintech and then from there to PM in fintech, then trying to go from one to three at the same time. And of course, if you have the opportunity to get an internal promotion, that's great. You can always ask. A lot of our students take this program even sponsored by their current employers because they built a case and they got approved and they use this as an opportunity to prove that they want to continue growing within their current company. Anyway, let's talk more about how you can get some of these industry experts and you had a really good point. There are so many industry-related events these days and Meetup is a great source, Eventbrite, especially in San Francisco, I'm sure you can find more than one event per day. Obviously, at some point you will have to stop and focus more on quality than just quantity and pick the topics or the meetups that are valuable to you. But these days you can find that. You can also find that online. There are so many groups on Slack, LinkedIn, Facebook. We actually have a lot of those. So we have a community on Slack with over 15,000 product people, a community on Facebook with over another 15,000 people, a community on LinkedIn and each channel acts in a different way. Slack is more real-time communication so we host a lot of live AMAs, live Q&As with product experts and a lot of companies share job offers. But it goes so fast that some of those companies also share those job offers on Facebook because it's more static. So whatever that is, I think it's not hard for you to find some of your groups. But again, you will get into the same problem which is there are so many. So at some point you will probably want to reduce the scope and just focus on the one, two or three that are of value to you. So in addition to these offline communities or online communities, I'm also a big fan of reaching out to your network, not just your first degree network, but maybe your second or third degree network. If you have LinkedIn, you pretty much can get the email of anyone. As simple as that. It doesn't matter if you are connected or not. You can pretty much guess the email of a person if you know the company this person works for. And there are three tools that show you eight patterns and then they can view the email. I'm not saying go out there and start calling emailing people to ask for free coffees. But you can also do your research and see first of all, if there is someone within your network, you asked me about UX design. I'm sure there might be someone that you know or kind of know on LinkedIn that is a UX designer in San Francisco. Maybe that person can help or maybe that person can recommend someone who can help, right? So that's another way to try. It's more of a one-on-one approach. Expect a lot of rejection. It's part of the game. But someone will say yes. And again, once you find that mentor or person, I always do the same of going from quantity to quality. I think for me, I still participate and mentor a lot of our students. But the only one thing that I ask them after that first coffee meeting is if you want to schedule a second meeting, you have to do your homework. Like I don't want to have a second coffee meeting with the same person to give the same high-level advice. Like I think the first meeting is fine to get to know each other. But once we dig deeper into what you need and who I am and how I can help, it is time to also maximize the help here. I don't just want to be giving the exact same standard advice on how to optimize LinkedIn. So if you find that mentor, it's not about finding five, six mentors. It's maybe about finding one, or maybe two. And then keeping yourself accountable. That's the way I like to mentor and get mentor. Well, so how can you prove it? And what I like about online in general is that I don't even look resume these days. I look at LinkedIn profiles. They tell me way more than that static piece of PDF because I don't get about the LinkedIn. I can also see your connections. I can see who we have in common. I can see the same recommendation or endorsement. I can also Google you and see what's your presence on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, whatever. I can see if you have a medium page or a quarter answer, or you participated in Amira. That is so valuable these days in tech that means way more than the PDF that you created from a Word template 10 years ago. And so that's one thing. And by the way, the piece of advice here is not go there and start creating a meetup blog, sorry, a medium blog and a meetup group just to look very active. No, but if you can pick one, two, or three channels that work for you and keep them clean and good, that's very powerful. Like these days, having a profile photo on LinkedIn is huge, no matter what type of job you're looking for, or even if you're not looking for a job. Having a strong headline is also very important. Your headline is not only your current job, you could use your headline as an opportunity to highlight something. If you are a product expert or a specific industry expert in something, you can mention that. That's yours. That's not for your company. You can also use the summary section of LinkedIn to talk more about some of your specialties, tools, or skills that you have because when I look for people and I use tools like LinkedIn or others, I need to enter certain keywords. So especially if you don't have a lot of experience in, let's say, product, it's going to be hard for you to show up. So you need to add certain keywords there, not to lie, but to make yourself relevant. And that will give you the opportunity for someone to take a look and then decide what are the next steps. So keep that in mind. And of course, it's very easy, it's better, it's easier said than done. And there are many details that are taken into account here. But if you can just remember that LinkedIn and pretty much your online presence is way more relevant these days, that is a good first step for me. You have to kind of SEO yourself in a way. By the way, what that implies is to say, I want to work at Airbnb because I use Airbnb a lot, or I want to work at Amazon because I buy a lot of stuff on Amazon. Well, it is good, nobody will disqualify you for that, but I'm looking for stronger validation points here in terms of your specific domain expertise. So let's talk about the last one, probably the hardest one, eventually, because the first two are critical, especially as you start your career, your hard skills. Those are the main skills that we can teach you. We can teach you how to code, we can teach you how to run SQL queries, we can teach you how to build a product and what are the different steps and tools that you need. But at some point, as you grow, you will see that you start getting more and more disconnected from the actual product and more and more connected to people. And a lot of the problems that you are trying to solve are not related to the code, but more about the motivations of different people. And communication skills plays a key role. So for people that come from business, consulting or marketing, they usually have a leg up here because they're used to that, the same way engineers have a leg up when it comes to technical background. The other day, engineers need to understand how to get some leadership and communication skills, the same way business people have to also get some technical skills. You are going to meet in the middle. So what do I mean by communication skills? Again, you don't need to be a book author or a public speaker, although if you know how to do that, that's great. What I mean by this is you need to be comfortable helping your team and really understanding being a translator. And what I mean by this is that let me just give you an example. Let's say that I am the product manager and all of you guys work in the same thing. I have engineers, I have designers, I have marketers. And the goal now is to we are working on a mobile app that shows a lot of shoes. And we don't have any option for users to pay for those shoes. They can just browse and mark as favorite, whatever. And now we're going to integrate with a payment gateway so people can purchase and receive shoes. So I say I'm the product manager and I go to my engineers and I say, hey, guys, we are going to do this and I show them some options and show them, imagine what options do you have? Stripe, PayPal, you can build your own in-house solution, you can integrate with Bitcoin, you can do many things. But when I go and talk to my engineers, what do you think it's going to be like the main motivation for them to pick one solution versus the other? What do you think they care the most about the latest technology? Done. That's exactly it. It's not about what's easiest, it's not about what makes more money, it's not about what's a better UX, it's actually what's more challenging. But not the Jeep engineer will want to build a WordPress website. You want something that nobody has done before. Of course, I'm exaggerating, but you get the point. The motivation for that engineer is the technical challenge more. The supply is the same case to a design team. What's that motivation for the design team? What did you say like that? You care more about how the product is going to work, how the product is going to look. Maybe you don't care as much as what's the backend programming language that we are going to use to implement your design. But that UX aspect is very important. And then if you ask that same question to the business team, you're probably going to care more about how much money are we going to make. Maybe not everything about tech or design, but you want to understand, you want to create a model, you want to run multiple scenarios, you want to understand how long it takes from the moment you collect the cash until it hits your bank account, you want to see if you can accept international transactions, you want to see if you can accept different currencies, whatever. So as the product manager, you are kind of in between and you need to speak those three languages and come up with a solution that is not going to make happy at least 66% of the room. If not more because your job is not to say, it's not to find the consensus and say yes to everything. It's actually to make a decision based on what you think is best now with the eyes and if this could help us scale in the future. So anyway, I just wanted to give you this example because this is not something that you will learn by just going to school or you require some experience and dealing with people and doing a big meeting doesn't solve everything. At some point, you have to do a 101 or send emails. So how do you actually get better at communicating? I'm going to give you two pieces of advice before you read this. The first one is this is something you can implement tomorrow if you want. It's not rocket science, but before you send your next email, just try to read it twice. And I'm sure you are going to find out a lot, not just in terms of correcting typos. You can see the tone of your email and see if there's something you have to change. I bet you you are going to change something, especially if it's a long email that involves multiple people. Number two is see if you could replace some of those emails by a phone call, which is kind of counterintuitive, right? Because sometimes like an email is faster, but a phone call could save you a lot of emails than the road. And when you see that, especially when you're in a situation of authority as the product manager is, where a lot of people are going to read these are not just the people in the email, but sometimes there's other people who are not copied in that email. A lot of things can be misunderstood. Not everybody is going to like everything that you say. So sometimes it requires additional coaching, you know, one-on-one explaining things here and there. I'm not saying don't send emails. Sometimes you can have that phone call and then send a summary of what you discussed, but that quick phone call can save you a lot of trouble. Or it's not like you have to call people on the spot. You can schedule that or you can slack, but to not just rely on email can save you trouble. And that's something I'm still learning. You can learn all the scenarios in just a classroom. You can guess some of those scenarios and probably not repeat if you can identify the pattern. And of course, there are other options out there, especially if you want to get better at writing. The best way to do that is by writing. And these days, you don't need to wait to have your own 40 functional website. You could use Medium.com or Quota or any other platform to go out there and start writing. Nobody wants you to fail. Nobody's here to make fun of your writing. So the more you write, the better you get. There's no other trick. If you don't write, you don't get better at writing. How do you get better at public speaking? By speaking in public. Let's say it doesn't need to be like a major event. It could be like a smaller meeting with three or four people. But the only way to get better at communicating is by trying different communication channels. And I know it is especially easier for people who come from a business background or have the opportunity to interact with different stakeholders on a daily basis. Even if it is not under a product context, then it is for engineers because you don't have that many meetings. And those meetings are not usually for you to give a master talk about the vision of the company. But this is something that we play a major role, especially as you grow in your career. Like I always say that product school will help you go from zero to one to break into product and get all these tactical skillsets. But what will take you from one to 10 as you grow in your career towards this VP or CPO role? It's probably your experience and communication skills. Well, this is the last slide. And with this kind of wrap up this whole presentation, I explain you a lot of things about how to break the different paths into product, how you grow the product team, what are some of the salary expectations, how you can look at a product depending on different categories, how you can optimize, or how you can acquire some of the key skillsets in order to break into product. But at the end of the day, you will all face the interview process and not just the interview process, but the whole process. So what I'm showing you here is the reverse triangle. So for people who work in sales, you will feel familiarized with this type of funnel where we start at the top, which is basically identifying enough companies and send them your LinkedIn or your resume. And then from there, some of them will call you to interview over the phone, some of them will call you to interview in person and hopefully, some of them will extend you a job offer. So if you look at this, at your left column, you will see that I start with 30 to 50 companies on top of the funnel, which means you need to, in order to, for this to make sense, in order for you to get some value, you need to start with anywhere between 30 to 50 companies. Of course, if you already have more experience than average, maybe you need less companies. I give you a lot of experience, maybe you need them to start. You can just call your friends. But in general, you would need anywhere between 30 to 50 companies that are a good fit for you. So but I don't, with this, I don't mean Google, Facebook, Uber, Airbnb, Leed, Jobbox, and this new seller just raised a hundred million dollars. Let me apply. No, it's literally identifying companies that are a good fit for you based on your domain expertise, salary expectations, location, and so on. Do you know anyone inside that can make an intro and really do your research to start with that? If you are going to start with less companies than that, you don't even need to build this. You can continue just going to LinkedIn or Monster or Indeed, wherever you go and keep clicking the apply and out button. You probably know the answer before you click the button. You can continue doing that. This is if you want to treat the job search as a job itself, not saying this is a full-time job, but it's definitely something that you need to block some time for. And that's something that we also cover in the course. It's not just about building products, it's also about selling yourself in a way. But you can only do this when you are comfortable enough building product and have a decent portfolio. Otherwise, it's like a leaky bucket. Well, let's assume that you identify those companies. You go out there and connect with some of them. You probably get like a 20 to 30% success rate depending. And the next step is a phone interview. That phone interview is usually with a recruiter, not with a product manager. And then if you pass that interview, you usually get to an in-person interview. I've seen different models here. I've seen companies that will call you for an in-person interview after the phone. But I've seen companies that will send you a take-home assignment after the phone interview. And then once you submit it, they will decide if they call you for an in-person meeting. And part of the interview will be for you to present the take-home assignment. So a couple of things to keep in mind here. One is companies are not here to take advantage of you. They are not here to make you work for free. The reason why they ask you to build a take-home assignment is because they want to see how you think. Because it makes sense. Like if you are a designer and you want to apply for a design job, you will have a portfolio. And if you're an engineer, you will have a GitHub account or a Bitbucket account or a real product or something where I can see your code. If you are a product manager, you also need to show me something. Now, how does this look like? And that's actually what we teach you to build. It could be a presentation with multiple documents connected to it, where you go through the whole life cycle of the product, where you define the opportunity and explain to me what are the data sources that you are using, what are the qualitative sources that you are using, and how you come up with a solution. How do you put that into a roadmap? How do you break down this roadmap into different deliverables? How do you create wireframes? How do you go out there and do some basic user research, get some insights and improve that wireframe? How do you create a PRD spec for your engineers and think about different edge cases? How do you break this down into different user stories? How do you define success metrics? What's the go-to or the product launch strategy? I really want to know that you know the lingo, that you've gone through the process. It doesn't need to be the exact same process that I have in mind, but it could be similar. I want to know that you feel familiarized with certain tools that we use, so if you can't show me that, it's going to be almost impossible that you will pass some of these assignments. By the way, the assignments that the companies will give you are very, very similar to the assignments that you have to do here. Obviously, depending on the company, they may give you more or less work, but at the end of the day, once you've gone through it once, once you understand the framework, then you can adjust it. If you're in a smaller organization, you may need to take some shortcuts. If you're in a larger organization, you may need to add some layers of politics, but at the end of the day, we all play by the same set of rules. You need to go through it once. It's really hard to make it up. It's very easy to detect if you're trying to make up an answer. Let's put it that way. Then a good thing about making you present is that they will also check some of your communication skills. How good are you just not just building a wireframe, but also getting the buying from different people? Again, different companies will do it in a different way. They'll call you first or later. What's very common is that if you make it to an in-person interview, there will be multiple people interviewing you. There will be a time to interview with a PM. There will be a time to interview with a designer. There will be a time to interview with an engineer. It's such a key role that different stakeholders want to make sure that you are a good fit. It doesn't usually happen if you're applying for a very specific position like UX design or engineering. There's no need for different stakeholders to meet with you, but in this role, it is critical. Then let's say you go through the whole thing. Hopefully, you will get some job offers and then you can decide what you want to do. But with this, I don't want to discourage you. I just want to show you that it is hard, but it's also doable. You need to commit to it, block some time, and work through it. Otherwise, it's not going to magically happen. With this, I have time to take some questions. Yes. So, one example could be, let's build this new feature for this existing product. Let's say, let's just make this up. I don't know if that even exists. Spotify. Let's say now we want to create a group playlist. So, not just you, but other Spotify users can join the group and create a list. Let's say that doesn't exist. How would you go about it? It's not a brainstorming session. They really want to see how you do it. Another example would be, let's say we want to expand this product to this new market. How would you localize it? I want more than just, oh, I'm just going to translate the text. I really want to see how you think through the screens. What other changes in the backend do you want to make? Those could be very common examples. But it's always about, let's build something and show me your process at a tactical level. And if you could include some wireframes, if you could get some data, so you could get some quality information, the more, the better. So, the question is, what is the difference between product marketing and product management? I'm very similar to the question that we got before about what's the difference between scrum master and product manager. If you're a small enough organization, product manager is doing product marketing as well. If you're in a larger organization where you have the luxury of having a product marketing manager and a product manager, then it's when you start seeing some of these differences. So, remember that graph that I showed before where product marketing was the intersection in between business and product? So, I mean, obviously we can spend hours talking about this, but the key differences at the very beginning, think about it. The product lifecycle, you usually start with a business case. There has to be a reason for us to build something. It's not like, oh, I had this idea in the shower. Let's build this new feature. You probably have some data, external data from competitors, market trends, internal data from customers. You can also have some quality information. At the end of the day, you're in a position as a product manager where you need to decide what's next. So, the product marketing manager supports the product manager in that decision. That's the person who is in touch with the business, usually have a business background, can help product manager to offload some of those research and reports to gather that information and collaborate on their roadmap. So, it's very important at the very beginning of the process. Once the decision is made and we have a roadmap and then engineers and designers understand what they have to do and they start working on that, the product marketing manager is not going to be that involved working with engineers and designers. That's not his or her expertise. But at the same time, the product marketing manager is going to start working on enabling the teams, sales, support, marketing, on what's going to happen. It's kind of like an internal marketing position where you explain others, hey, this news release is coming and this is what it includes. Now we're going to be able to accept payments via PayPal or via credit card. By the way, customer support, let's update the FAQ section because we could expect this. Let's work with PR on the key bullet points I need to feature in the next press release. Let's work with marketing on creating an article or a webinar to explain this and that. So, it's kind of like a person who is working at the very beginning of the cycle on informing or helping the PN decide what's next. And at the same time, once engineers and designers are working, this person is also preparing all internal communication so the whole team is ready once engineers and designers push the latest version of the product. Cool. All right. So, just to wrap up, I wanted to let you know that we have incredible events next week. So, we host events every twice a week, the next Wednesday. Actually, this is tomorrow. Oh, yeah. You asked me about UX. Tomorrow we have a product manager from LinkedIn to actually talk about the intersection between UX and product. We like to invite... You are in? Done. Okay. So, we like to invite different product managers. Tonight was more about the PM career, but tomorrow is more about UX. Other days are more technical about data or coding. So, we like to mix and match and bring different PMs from large organizations that also have some experience working in startups. So, you can learn from them. These talks are always at 6.30 PM and they are free or almost free. They'll be here tomorrow. And then next week, we actually have a PM from Apple. So, if you want design, you can get it twice. And he will also talk about how to actually analyze customer and use that feedback to make decisions on what to do next. It's a mix of customer development and UX. If you want to see the full agenda of events that we have prepared for this year and the next year, you can check out the website, productschool.com. There's a section that says events and you can see them all. We also have a campus in Santa Clara where we host events. So, depending on where you live, that could also be an option. And then, if you are interested in taking our eight-week product management course, these are the next available dates. So, we are fully sold out for the year, but for the next year, the instructors come from Facebook and Google. One class will be on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6.30 PM to 9 PM. So, it's always after work. And then, we have a parallel class that is on Saturdays in the morning. That one is going to be taught by a senior PM from Google. The content is exactly the same. The only difference is whatever works better with your schedule. It's twice a week at night or once a week on Saturdays. And we have the classes at 15 students to make sure that there is good interaction. And we're currently running up... We are... It is confidential, but we've increased prices before the end of the year. So, for students that enroll before the deadline, we'll honor the current rate for 2017. And then, the classes about coding and data that some of you asked me. So, they will... We're also fully sold out for this year, but the next one starts in January. So, the data analytics course is going to be taught by a data scientist from Uber. And then, the coding for manager's course is going to be taught by a senior software engineer from eBay who used to be a senior software engineer at Tesla. So, if you're interested about learning more about instructor or the class, you can talk to me afterwards or with some who is our campus director here in San Francisco. Thank you very much for coming tonight.