 To think tech, it's one o'clock, it's Community Matters. I'm Jay Fidel and the other fella is Gordon Pang. And Gordon Pang is a writer for the Star Advertiser now, but he'd been writing for the newspaper, one or the other. You got to tell me exactly how long, Gordon, but it's been a long, long time, a lifetime even. We don't have to get into how long. Let's just say before some of the new reporters were born, how's that? There it is, okay. You look remarkably well, what can I say? Must be doing the right thing, staying alive, it's very important now. The other thing Gordon does, I mean, that I'm familiar with is the Gridiron show, but we're not gonna talk about that today. Suffice to say, he is hysterical on the Gridiron show and it demonstrates the real Gordon. And I hope it comes back soon so you can all enjoy the real Gordon again. Yeah, we're still trying to figure out what's gonna happen this year, I think. Yeah. So you've been writing up a storm on the city. You've been writing on, gee, I have so many, so many issues on the city. Let's try to take some of them and you can give us a handle on priorities and on possibilities. Even if you like on opinions and if you don't wanna give opinions, then I will. I don't mind. Let's talk about the prosecutor's office. Steve Amman's in there now or will be in January 2nd. And Query, where are we? Because the public is still shaking his head. What went on there? And are we safe? The old marathon man question, are we safe? Or is the prosecutor's office just completely fragmented and not functional? Tell us about it. Well, as you're aware, the office of the city auditor recently came out with a report on the department of the prosecuting attorney, which is also known as the prosecutor's office by a lot of folks. Members of the city council, right? In November, 2019 ordered this audit along with one of the police department in the wake of the scandal involving the Kea Lojas, who of course were convicted of corruption. By the way, before I say anything else, both audits are up before the city council's executive matters and legal affairs committee tomorrow morning at 10 a.m., I believe. And so, folks can listen in then to hear what the auditor has to say. I'm not sure if the prosecutors or the police department are gonna show up, but I'm sure questions will be asked. Good. You asked specifically about the prosecuting attorney's office. And clearly the auditor could see that not very much has been done by the department to address some of the key issues that have arisen since the Kea Lojas case first came about. The audit focused on several key areas, conflict of interest situations, the supervising of the staff attorneys and the handling of internal complaints. For me, the most stunning part of the auditor's report was this common theme that there seems to be just in general, in general, a lack of consistent policy or guidelines in many of these areas. I mean, you know, this office wasn't created yesterday or even eight years ago, which suggests that some of these problems predate Keith Kanashiro. So the audit spoke about how the department relied on self-disclosure to deal with conflicts of interest charges. On the face of that, that sounds kind of shocking, you know? You're basically asking the Fox to guard the henhouse, but that said, it's just not an easy problem to fix. Because even if you've got someone who's so jobless but maybe root off the conflicts, it's hard to find out the different types of relationships your attorneys might have with the people that, you know, they're interacting with either as clients or the victims. And, you know, especially as we all know and know even more as we get older, you know, this is a really small island. So, you know, conflicts are bound everywhere. Now, the department conceded its administrative policy, lack detail on what constituted a conflict or what procedures were to be taken when a conflict was identified. But they said that since September, policy now outlines what cases are deemed to be a conflict. I'm not sure why it took decades, the conviction of one of its top deputies, and then finally this audit to get there. But, you know, they've changed somewhat now. As for what else can be done, again, it's just tough to root out this stuff. My uneducated suggestion might be just to have a bigger checklist of questions, I mean, I just took a hepatitis vaccination shot yesterday and they asked me like three pages worth of questions I needed to answer before they let me take the shot. So maybe the attorneys need to have a longer checklist of this sort too. I mean, given the workload that they have and this was cited by the prosecutors in their response, given the workload, you know, this may be difficult and slow things down even further, but maybe that just needs to happen if we're gonna root out this stuff. Yeah. Questions so far? Yeah, well, they're sort of common at this point. So Steve Ahm is a possible fix. And he was a judge, he's hopefully untouchable and he can get in there and, you know, fix it. But query in an ideal sense, I mean, I guess the city council should look at this. The city council should likewise enlist Steve Ahm and he should enlist them and they should get in there and clean it up. And I think, and you are very important in writing about this because for us to have, most of us to have a sense of confidence about city government, we have to be confident of the police, we have to be confident of the prosecutor's office and right now they're tarnished. And the more you think about it, the more uncomfortable you become with a city that can seem to enforce the law and can seem to prosecute those who need to be prosecuted, especially at a time when, my belief, you can probably confirm this, is that there's more crime. There's more crime because our economics are lousy and people are out of work and they're on the street. I mean, we did that neighbor, that neighbor social media thing that goes around tells you all about the neighbor next door and there's so much as being reported about break-ins and accostations and purse stealing and on and on and on, you say, well, people are in dire straits, they do crime. And if that's so, we need the police to be on it. We need the prosecution to be on it. So, who should step forward on this first? Is it Steve Amp? Is it the new mayor? Is it city council? And of course, is it you, Gordon? Well, I think you know what the answer is gonna be. You've been around. It's gonna have to take everybody. And the fact that we have the new majority in the city council, five new members, no one can remember the last time, a majority of members of the council just suddenly came in and moved out, five others. Probably never, at least not since they've been nine council members. You've got a new mayor and of course you have a new prosecutor. So, you know, you've got all those pieces in place. They've all promised to root out corruption and clean up government. And of course that the big buzzword transparency, right? They all promised transparency in government. And I guess that's where folks like, you know, the reporters, including myself and Christina Jettra who kicks butt for civil beat and other folks need to come in and make sure that they're held accountable. I think you're having me jump to the end of my four pages of notes here. The auditor recommended that outside of what the prosecutor's office could do via the city council and establish a commission on prosecutorial conduct to evaluate the prosecutor annually. Because right now, you know, no one does that. The only thing that holds a prosecutor accountable is running for reelection. So really the only people the prosecutor answers to is the voting public every four years. And that's a problem. You know, there needs to be at least a review of sorts. I mean, everybody else does. The police chief, the fire chief, the board of water supply manager, you know. And of course the city council keeps checks on the mayor. So everyone else does, every other executive does except the prosecutor. So maybe that needs to change a little bit. Yeah, but you have to ride her on the commission. I mean, if this is going to be like the police commission, I would not be encouraged. It has to be, somebody has to have oversight over the commissions. And unless that happens, the commissions tend to go off the side. Am I right? To some extent, yes. You know, that's a question unto itself. What to do about the, you know, you're talking about the police department, right? And the police commission. That's a question unto itself. I mean, you know, on the one hand, you've got the mayor saying, look, there's only so much I can do. I can appoint the people, but then even then I can't appoint them all. And of course the city council checks off on those appointees, but then what happens, right? Again, those are really tough questions. I'm not sure, you know, I can tell you what the answers are, but I think for sure these folks need to get together and talk about it and figure it all out. And it's incumbent on us as reporters to make sure that we keep their feet to the fire, you know, to do so. Yeah, suffice to say in any event, you need somebody to watch the prosecutor. That's been made clear, not only in this administration, but before. So hopefully again with a new guy in there, you know, all, there were seven candidates, I think, running for a prosecutor this year. And I studied all of them to some extent and every single one of them, of course, you know, raised the need to restore confidence in the department, the need to make changes there a priority. So let's hope, you know, collectively, you know, that energy can all be channeled to Steve Aum now and he can help make some changes there. So Steve Aum is, he was a judge before, but he's new now. The members of the council are new, the mayor is new. And let me add that Tommy Waters is new. He was in the ledge and now he's the council chair. I don't know what that means. What does that mean that he comes essentially with a legislative portfolio, but not a city council portfolio and presto after a contested election, as I recall, he is now the chair of city council. What are your thoughts about that? I think the, I think putting, describing the Trevor Ozawa, Tommy Waters election as contested would be putting it mildly, that went to the Supreme Court, you know, finally had needs to have another election. So that was quite an ordeal. And Tommy came through it as a council member for that district. As a council member, you know, there's a big difference between the square building on the one side of the street and the square voting on the other side of the street, major, major difference among council members and lawmakers. Some folks succeed when they come over from the legislature, others not so much because they're one of nine and they represent 100,000 people each at least, you know, even a state senator represents just a small fraction of that. So the power that city council members have is just immense. And I think the public often forgets that, you know, I'm the city hall reporter, so I kind of have a bias about that, but I think it's true. I mean, they really do have a lot of power and we, you know, again, the reporters need to keep tabs on all of that. Now, Sir Tommy Waters, I think he's done okay, you know, when he first got in, there was a lot of skepticism about how he was buddies with the mayor. They both came into politics together and the 2002 election, they both got into the House of Representatives and served together there as freshmen. So I think they did have a fairly close relationship and so it was assumed that he would just do the marriage bidding, but it turns out he hasn't. He's called out the mayor. I think the first example of that was the Alamoana Park issue, you know, which the mayor held firm on in terms of the playground, the inclusive playground that had been proposed, despite just massive blowback for that. And Tommy Waters made it clear, no, we need to hear the public out on this and I don't think the public wants this. So that was the first example of that. He's also been quite critical of the fire commission, I mean, excuse me, the fire department and also the police department. So I think he can be shown somewhat independence Greek in that sense. So, you know, let's hope that continues. Let's hope he continues to ask tough questions as well as the other eight council members. You want me to talk about the other members now a little bit or? Sure, please. You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to like the makeup. We haven't seen them yet. The new council takes hold on January 2nd. It's sworn in that day along with the mayor. We've got a pretty diverse cast of characters there. I cynically call the city council, the nine ring circus, but we've got nine pretty distinctive acts here and everybody's got a role to play here. And each of them have to bring their own streams. We got Esther Keaina who worked in Washington. So hopefully, you know, she has that knowledge and experience and what contacts to draw from. Of course, we've got Calvin Sey who first ran for office when I was, I wasn't even a teenager living in his district in Palo Alto Valley, but you know, he's got a wealth of experience and he previously, before becoming speaker of the house was the chair of the house finance committee for a number of years. And so he knows a thing or two about, you know, where to find things in a budget. You've got Andrea Topola who, you know, certainly is a fierce voice, a strong advocate for the West side. And of course, comes from Republican roots and is very proud of those roots and philosophies and we'll bring that perspective probably as much as anyone. And then of course, we have Andrea, excuse me, we have Augie Toba who just has a completely fresh perspective. He's worked in government, but kind of has just been on the fringes of it. And of course, is known mostly as a comic. So it'll be fun to cover him if nothing else. And finally, we have Radiant Cordero who worked with the four Joey Manahan for a number of years. He brings, she brings a fresh perspective, you know, a young perspective. That was a really cool race that she was in. Three individuals who were all under 35, I think, and all who were rooted in that, you know, Kalihi community. But anyway, back to Radiant. You know, Radiant's a good person, has a lot of knowledge and I think we'll bring a fresh perspective as well. So it's gonna be a fun group to cover. Well, it sounds encouraging somehow. You know, fresh perspective, new people, they're not necessarily rooted in anything. Hopefully they're all free thinkers, that'd be good. But we have a new mayor and I wanted your impressions on him. You know, he's certainly had, he ran a good campaign. He stayed above the fray in many ways. And you wonder what his, you know, what his foibles are. Do you have a sense of how good a candidate he is, how good a mayor he'll be? Well, I think the public wanted folks with a, as we already discussed, a fresh perspective on things. They didn't want Mufi Hanuman. They didn't want Colleen Hanabusa. They didn't want Kim Pine. They didn't want Bud Stonemaker, you know, folks who have been elected previously. There's a sentiment in the public that there needs to be fresh blood at City Hall. And Rick Blindjarty certainly brings that, you know, and the person who finished second, Keith Amemid, brought that as well. So we've got somebody who hasn't been in government. So that said, there's gonna be a steep learning curve. He's gonna have to get educated on a lot of issues real quickly. And I'm sure he's getting a crash course as we speak. The fact that he hired Michael Formby as his managing director, I think bodes well. You know, Mike is well respected by most folks or everyone I'm scoping to. And, you know, I think he has, integrity about him that people like in an honesty about him. And of course, he knows his way around City Hall as a former director. You know, he was with heart as well. And of course, he spent some time as city council member during those five or six months when we're waiting to hear what would happen with Lozawa and Waters. Again, small island. But so Mike was a good start. The mayor is going to have to surround himself with competent people, people who know what they're doing. And that's gonna mean a mix of folks who may have some experience with the government already and knows how to navigate through the different areas. And then of course, again, you want fresh perspective. I think the other thing he needs to do is make sure that he does not surround himself with folks who just are, yes, people to him. And he's promised to do that. You know, he comes from private business and there seems to be a tendency you would think for folks who have been in private business to surround themselves with people who will support their position, but... You're not talking about anybody in Washington, are you, Gordon? Well, possibly, but it goes way beyond that. I mean, people can be successful coming in from the outside, completely cold and be successful navigating government, but you need to surround yourself with folks who know what they're doing, where the bathrooms are and the back doors are in the municipal building, the Kapole Halle as well as City Hall. So, you know, there's just so many intricacies to writing a government that just being a business person alone is not gonna be enough. I mean, he can bring that perspective and it will serve him well. I'm not saying that won't, you know? But there's certainly a steep learning curve and it's not gonna help with the worst of times right now with the pandemic going on. Yeah, well, that's the thing, you know? So we have a brand new city council, city council chair, brand new prosecutor, brand new... Well, the chief of police is not brand new, but you know, in a sense she is. And then we have a new mayor and on top of that, if this happened in ordinary times, it would all be quite a challenge. They'd have to find out things, steep learning curve. But these are not ordinary times. We're still in crisis. We're in crisis over COVID. We're in crisis over the state economy, the city economy. We're in crisis over public confidence. We're in crisis over crime. We're in crisis over rail, like homelessness and a ban on plastic utensils. We have a crisis on that, I'm only kidding. Affordable housing and a fiscal crisis, all of this coming down at the same time through a whole bunch of people who haven't held public office necessarily, I don't haven't worked together necessarily. So query, what are the priorities? If you were going to try to help them, what would you say they should pay attention to first and second and third? Well, I'd say the first priority, first of all, is just dealing with the current COVID situation and making sure it doesn't get any worse. But of course, there's been that tug and pull that's already happening and is going to continue to happen between suffering businesses and people who are dying. Nobody wants to see businesses go. So it's a tough line to stay in the middle of. So that's first, just dealing with the pandemic, making sure it doesn't get any worse. Well, that's a real risk. Help things as well as the business side of things. That's a real risk. I mean, they've been, a lot of people have been out of work for a long time. A lot of businesses have failed permanently and are still daily failing permanently. A lot of people on the streets, they don't have food, they're desperate. And there's every indication, vaccine or no, that over the next six months, including the six months from January 2nd, are going to be in desperate straits. Absolutely. And the city has the greatest responsibility because the city is the one on the streets, so to speak. Absolutely. So it's not just dealing with a static challenge, it's dealing with a challenge that could get, maybe will get worse every day. Absolutely. Absolutely. So first priority is making sure this does not get any worse. And then there's the recovery plan, which I think the planning needs to start now and I'm sure is happening now. How do we bring things back? And how do we bring things back effectively? I mean, I think we've seen the hotel struggle with that. How much and what do we reopen? Or what just makes sense to open? I think all the businesses are feeling that doesn't make sense to open, pay my expenses, and hope people come use my services and products. So those are all issues I think that need to be dealt with. And so that would be the second priority, I think. Third priority, I think it's gonna be the budget, which is also COVID related. How are they gonna deal with the shortfall? The Codwell administration reported last month, it's gonna be a $400 million shortfall. That's a healthy chunk of money. And the fact that they need the budget for rail does not help the situation. I mean, the original amount budgeted was 140 to 160 million for operations and maintenance in the first year. So the bad news is rail probably is not going to get underway at the end of 2021 as everyone expected or as everyone had been told. But the good news is that means the city can probably save some money that it can divert elsewhere. I think that's been one of the biggest challenges that people have been talking about is just how are you gonna deal with all of that? Yeah. Does it change your view at all that Pete Buttigieg is gonna be the director, the secretary of transportation under Joe Biden? I'm sorry, I was doing other things this morning. Did that just get announced? Wow, Pete Buttigieg, huh? Okay, interesting. Yeah. Not quite, I'll be quite honest with you. I have no idea what that's going to mean. It's gonna be different. That's all we know. That may be more sympathetic to Hawaii. I mean, after all, mass transit is very important. Although these days, ridership around the country is way down, because nobody wants to get in a room with strangers. Since we're on the issue of rail, I guess that's a big question mark at this point is, how do you proceed from here? I think to say we're just gonna stop construction and halt it where it's at is not something that a majority of folks are gonna be okay with. Although, I know there's a lot of anger out there, but this just can't be left standing there after all the money that was spent. People need to factor in the fact that, federal government in its decision to grant one and a half billion dollars for this project needed it to be done or it's supposed to get the money back. Now, on top of that, you've got contracts that have already been signed, and you've purchased properties along the way. You've got half built tracks along the way. Although stopping it where it is is gonna have consequences. But the question is how do you proceed from here? I think there seems to be consensus now finally between Hart and the Haudwell administration at least that things need to be segmented. Let's build it in a fashion so that we build it based on how much money we know we're going to have, which I think might have been part of the problem in all this. Of course, nobody expected pandemic to factor into all this as well. Anyway, so that's another big issue or... I think that's a huge issue because just as these three things you've mentioned are all interrelated, the financial fiscal issue is related to really everything. For example, we have sea level rise. It's inevitable. It's inexorable. It's gonna be coming up the shores. We have to be taking steps. We have extreme weather coming down the pike. You can quote me on that. And one of these days... Some people will. One of these days, we're gonna have a huge storm and a huge expense in fixing it up, fixing things up. And query, are we prepared for that? So my final question to you, Cohen, is should we be looking forward to a humongous tax increase, property tax increase by the city? Well, the major political candidates, I'll promise there would not be. I don't think I'm in a position to answer that question quite honestly. I know I'm sounding like a politician, but I just don't know. The current mayor insists that the city does not need furloughs, but that I'm a little cynical about, especially when you've got the state, doing the same with more than 10,000 of its employees. So that's gonna factor into things big time. And that, again, comes back to a brand new mayor who needs to deal with the very powerful and influential government worker unions in town. It's GEA and the UPWB and CHOPO being the main ones for HFFA, for the city. So those are gonna be things that I think we're gonna have to watch to see how those machinations play out. It'll be fascinating to watch it, just how, what comes out of them. Of those four unions, the only one that endorsed the Blange Artie was CHOPO. UPWN, HGEA endorsed Amemia, and I think HFFA stayed out of it, I recall. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in any case, yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see what kind of dynamics play into this and how things end up. Because again, the union contracts are, I don't need to tell you, are a big deal. They make up a big part of the city budget as much as 60%. But because we're not dealing with just just their pay, but their benefits, as well as their health insurance, the health insurance, other benefits, sick leaves and retirements. And everything that comes with retirement. The unions have been very successful in making sure their employees are well taken care of. We'll see what comes about now with this new mayor and what he'll be able to do with the unions on this. Hopefully everybody will play nice, understand realities and come through this in something that is relatively immutable to most of us. Yeah, and not quite, there won't be a lot of fiscal surprises for us. But let me add that Rick Langeard, he ran a good railroad with KGB Hawaii News now. They made money, they knew how to run a tight ship. And if he brings that to government, it'll be helpful, useful, impressive. And maybe it'll prepare us better for the challenges to come. And no question that's gonna serve them well. Yeah, sorry. Gordon has been great to talk to you. It really has, you're such a, you're a very refreshing guy. What can I say? Gordon Pang star of a lovely show, Aloha.