 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the SJSU School of Information's Career Colloquia Session. My name is Jill Klees, and I am the iSchool's Career Center Liaison. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's really fun to see where everybody is logging in from. We have the great pleasure of having two hiring managers from public and research libraries with us tonight to share their experience of what they look for when hiring for a library one position. So you'll hear tips on how to prep for the interview and how to transfer your current skills into library work. The session tonight is one hour, and it is being recorded. I ask that you hold your questions until each of our speakers has had the opportunity to present, and then we will open it up for Q&A at the end. At that time, you may type your questions in the chat box, and please do, please feel free to ask some questions. We've got, you know, this is great information. So absolutely be thinking about what your questions are, and then feel free to follow up. So this is an excellent opportunity. You're welcome to join us on Twitter, as I said earlier, tweeting your comments using the hashtag SJSU Colloquia. And during the presentation, please do keep the dialogue in the chat box to a minimum, just so we don't distract our presenters. So we're going to go ahead and get started, and I'm going to start with you, Angie. So go ahead and take it away. Thanks, Jill. I'm hoping that everyone can still hear me okay. I just want to thank everyone for coming in, or signing on tonight from everywhere across the country, which I think is cool. So before we start, I wanted to tell you just a little bit of background of myself real quick. I graduated from San Jose State in December of 2005, and right after that, I started working at San Jose Public Library. And from there, I had a bunch of different roles, team librarian, branch librarian. Eventually, I did become a branch manager, and also managed some system-wide departments in San Jose. My last job there, which I had for a little under a year and a half, was as a division manager. And with that job, I oversaw a little under half of the San Jose Public Library branches, and then the education department there, which includes early literacy, adult literacy, and centralized programming. So then May of last year, I decided to take a big leap and say goodbye to 70-degree winter time weather, and come to New York City to work for the New York Public Library. So currently, I'm the associate director for the West Bronx Library Network. And it's very similar to the job that I did in San Jose. I oversee the dozen branches that are located in the West Bronx. And all aspects of kind of supporting the staff and the management there at the branches. So with the current job that I have, and the last job that I had at San Jose Public, hiring was a big, is a big responsibility for me, hiring public librarians, of course. So recently, all the New York City libraries, which includes New York, Brooklyn, and Queens Public, we were given a really high amount of money, $43 million for this fiscal year to hire librarians, and pretty much to expand ours and to enhance the initiatives and the programming that we want to do. So for New York Public Library, that meant, along with all other kinds of non-library support jobs, we had to also hire close to 100 librarians. So I've literally been interviewing librarians since about August, like once a week, every Monday, we're interviewing librarians. So I have a little bit of experience for interviewing for librarians, and definitely we're interviewing librarian one position. So now I'm just going to, that's me in a nutshell. I'll move on to my next slide. So what I wanted to talk about first is, in the public librarian world, what are we looking for? What am I looking for when I'm interviewing and looking for new librarians? First off, this job is very much customer service-based. We're looking for people who have those customer service skills or understand that it's the customer, the library patron, the user, however you want to name this person that comes into your building, and how you interact with them, and how you get them access to the resources that you have. So you'll be working front lines, you know, having interaction, knowledge, just your, what you think of like regular library patrons, but possibly politicians, people who work for community-based organizations, parents, teachers, teams, every, any person, of course it's a public library, you know, access to all. So to be able to have that real strong customer service skill set is really, is what we're looking for. And not necessarily in libraries, if you had a job that dealt with any kind of customer service skills, we're looking for that. I know they say this in public libraries, the only constant in public libraries is change. So to be able to adjust to change and to express how you can adjust to change in your interview, whether it's, you know, how about talking about projects or things that you've done at a current employer, we like to see, I like to see that you can adjust well to change, but also think about when you've had to go through any kind of change with a group of people, you know, how did you work with those people to go, to get through a change? Not necessarily how did you lead this group, but how did you play a role getting that group to change and to adjust to it in a good way? Knowing the community is really important and knowing that the library is very community based, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. So, but being able to express that it's the community that's really important to a public library and how you interact with that community, and it really does connect with the second point, like as a community changes, so is your services. So are your resources. So is your programming. So being able to express like that understanding that the community need is what you're responding to. And my last big point, there's many other points I'm sure, but these kind of the four that I thought of real quick, it's not just about the books. I'm sure again it's something that we all know. As an interviewer, I'd much rather have a candidate say, I love working with people, then I love books or I love to read. I'm sure we can all say that we love books and we love to read, and it's when you're going into your interview and talking about your experience and your skill set to always be thinking about not the materials, not the DVDs, the books, the e-resources, but to think about how do I get these materials into the hands of my community, of my patrons, customers, users, however you want to say it. And that's what, and that's what we look for, which is why I much rather would hear that I love working with people comment. Okay. So I'm going to talk about prepping for the interview and some of the things that I've used in my own interviews for jobs, as well as what I've seen works when I talk to successful candidates. So the first thing is, of course, we're all going to read the job description to see if we want to apply for something, but to really read it carefully and see, because you can really tell what an organization's priorities are going to be by what their job description says. And you want to read the job description as well as the qualifications that the library is looking for. You want to use these points to help you prep for the interview, you know, being in a public or a research library, you could be practicing questions until the end of the year, but how are you going to narrow that down and looking at the job description is great. For example, if you're a children librarian and you notice that they're talking about early literacy and after school support, well, now you know a couple of the things that they find important in their organization. So focus on that kind of research and the kind of experience and skill set that you would have to contribute to those specific initiatives they have. And also, you guys are in school or just about to graduate or have graduated, whatever stage you're at. If you're looking for these first, your first professional job as a librarian, don't let that make you think that you are not as good of a candidate as anyone else walking through that door. You have a strong skill set and so instead of looking at like specific librarian skills in the job description, think about those soft skills. So if you want to look at the children's librarian example again and they say, we want you to do story times and develop children's programming. So maybe you haven't actually done a story time in front of children or done a children's program in a public library setting, but what qualities, what are those soft skills that would lend to a successful program? It would be time management, being well organized, being able to promote, talking to parents and you've probably done that stuff in your life, group projects, a job that you currently have or had in the past. So think about how you can translate, you know, maybe you're working at a bank and you guys are trying to get new checking account clients. And so that's, and so you threw an event in the bank. I mean, that, even though that has nothing to do with public libraries, you just plan an event. And so that's what programming is. So try and make those connections because all the stuff that you've done previous to that day that you walk into interview, you can find relevance to it in a public library job. Research your future employer, which is like, well, I have to call when you come into an interview, I think the biggest thing that can frustrate an interview panel or an interviewer is when someone asks us a question that could have easily been discovered on the website. So have your background answered down. Most interviews, at least all the interviews I've done for first level librarians is a question, something like, tell us about your experience and why you would be a good candidate for this position. How those points down, it can be, it's also good to practice it because it could be an answer that could take up half of your interview depending on the kind of experience and the things that you've done up to that day. It's an easy question that can end up being really long-winded. So practice it, be concise, be specific. Again, if it's, you know, just using that children's library example again, if that's what you're going for and you have experience, let's say, as an adult services librarian, not to say that it's not relevant, but you probably don't have to go into the detail of some adult program that you did. But you can say, you know, as an adult services librarian, I did a lot of programming, you know. So make sure that you have those points down. I find it easier to remember when I'm practicing is to do it chronologically. Start from when I graduated up until the current position that I have. So this second to last tip, think of three stories. This is something that a mentor of mine told me during, before my very first library management job and I still use it and it's think of three stories that work, school related like, you know, anything that you did in your studies and make sure you have those very well rehearsed to note every single point of those stories. We don't know, you don't know what questions you're really going to be asked in the interview. So if you have those stories in your brain and then a question comes up, you'll be able to kind of kind of look in like the, you know, the file folder of your brain and think, oh, okay, that question is asking me about teamwork skills. Well, you know, oops, I kind of changed the slide there. I'm going to pull this story, you know, and talk about it. So some examples of stories that you could use, if you have a customer service story, again, like I said, customer service is such a big thing in libraries, group project stories I think are good because you're probably doing a ton of group projects in school right now and some of the soft skills that group projects could highlight are interpersonal skills, teamwork, leadership, time management, organization, so that's a great story to also have in your pocket. A problem-solving story is also great, again, it highlights teamwork but it also can highlight critical thinking, customer service, leadership, all those kinds of things. And these are just a couple of examples. I mean, you can come up with anything that you feel like, you know, like a project you feel especially proud of. This is like the time to talk about how great you are also, you know, remember that. And also with the group project, I think in the library land, we have a tendency to always think we because we have to work in teams, you know, we're always working together in teams. This is the one time to be selfish. Think about I, what did you specifically do in that project? What was your role? What you did and what was the end result and really think about how you promote yourself. So my last point, practice, practice, practice, you can do enough of that, time yourself, I had a colleague who's a really good friend of mine, she knew that her body language and how she spoke made her seem like less confident about her work even though she knew that inside she knows she does good work as a librarian. So she actually like took a webcam and recorded herself and watched her recording and just practice and kept doing it until she had the body language and the tone that it needed more confidence and that's pretty extreme. I don't know if even I would do that, but do what it takes to get that interview done and get those questions down to those stories. So the last couple of things I want to talk about are just library trends. And I feel like when I think about the people who come in and really impress us are the ones who have really done their research and this is such an excellent time for you guys because you're doing the research, you know these library trends, you're working on those papers, those group projects, so keep that up and understand what's happening in public libraries. The slide I have up here is an infographic from Pew Research Center. I'm sure you guys have all used Pew, but if you haven't, it's such a great resource. And so they just did a big report called Libraries of the Crossroads that came out last fall and they asked the question like what does the public want from public libraries? And so they're saying things like early literacy, school support, whether it's like after school tutoring, programming in the science and math like STEM or STEAM, however you want to say it, school visits, digital literacy and really looking at the brick and mortar buildings, the public library buildings as a community hub. It's kind of strange if you look at this chart, reading and books are just straight, grabbing a book and sitting down and reading it doesn't come into a chart until about the 6th or 7th down, which is not to say that's not important, but it's saying that the community is expecting a lot from the public library and they're expecting more than just the books and they're expecting the services and the programs behind it. So, you know, make sure and keep that in mind. And when you're looking at these big national trends, then connect them to the library that you're interviewing for. Okay, I see that this is, that early literacy is a library trend nationally. How is the library that I'm interviewing for doing this? Do they have story time? So, they have literacy workshops for parents, early literacy workshops for parents, excuse me. A look if you're not familiar with the city that you're interviewing for the public library, go to the city's website and see if you can find like a fact sheet of the demographic. You know, really research that stuff too and connect it. Oh, I noticed that this community has a very large Spanish speaking community or non-English speaking community. Is this library doing ESL programs, conversation clubs, citizenship things? You know, and if they're not, it's like something interesting to kind of bring up in the conversation, what you have in your interview if you can. So, I have a link there for the Pew Research Center, the latest report. Again, it's a huge report. Just read the executive summary and look at the infographics and you'll be fine. Another quick and dirty thing I do to see what trends are happening in libraries is to look at conference programs. So, for example, the public library association's having their conference in April, the program's up on their website. So, instead of navigating through all of the information that's on the PLA website, just go to their PLA conference program and see what's going on. Let's see what kinds of things that people are presenting about. Because most of the presenters are people that are still working the front lines in libraries. So, it's a good way to kind of see what those trends are real quick. And my final slide, what you can do now, again, I'm sure you guys know a lot of this stuff. If you have the time and the resources volunteering or doing an internship in any kind of library, I think it's really helpful and it helps you just, again, gain more of that experience, more of the ammunition that you can use to take into an interview. Keep your resume updated. I always do, I'm not looking for a job, but I always keep it updated. Anytime you do something that you feel is worthy to put in your resume, just make note of it. And then, when you apply for a job, then edit and narrow down your resume to what you feel like would work for you. You can keep your LinkedIn account updated as well, which is something I had to work on this year. And I can't really enhance the group projects enough. I know as an all online class group, projects can be very difficult to do and sometimes really stressful, but really take those opportunities not only to understand the content of the classes that you're doing these group projects for, but again, those soft skills that you can gain by doing this project. Because, I mean, let's face it, public libraries for sure aren't the most well-funded institutions in this country, so you're working as a team. You're assigned, you're hired as an adult librarian, but if that children's librarian is sick, then you're doing storytime that morning. So, you know, you're working together and so to be able to express that you have that ability and that skill set to do so, I think will take you a long way. And if you feel free to contact me, there's my e-mail address. Again, we're going to have questions after we both speak and I'm going to pass it off to Amanda. Hi, everyone. Thank you very much, Angie. My name is Amanda Folk. I am the director of the Milstein Library at the University of Pittsburgh in Greensburg. And I'm also the coordinator of all four regional campus libraries for the University of Pittsburgh, so that includes the Bradford campus, the Johnstown campus and the Titusville campus as well as my home campus of Greensburg. So, I can say that Angie and I are going to sound quite repetitive and that normally wouldn't be such a good thing in a presentation, but I think for this topic it is actually a good thing. Public, academic, special, school libraries, archives, we're all a little bit different. We have different stakeholders. We have different missions. But when I was looking through Angie's slide about what a public librarian is and listening to her descriptions, I thought, wow, that's really not much different than what I'm looking for in an academic librarian. So, there are a lot of different things that connect us as librarians, even though we're working in different settings. Also, there are many things that you could and should do when you're applying for a job at any one of these libraries. So, hopefully any repetition that you experienced tonight will help you focus on some of these best practices and help you to stand out as a candidate for a job that you're applying for. Okay. How did I get here? And some of you might have a similar story. I didn't plan to become a librarian. My plan was to become a professor of South Asian religions. And I just kind of happened upon a library work, very casually. One of my sorority sisters was graduating and she worked in the library and they asked her to find somebody who would be a good fit. And she said, hey, this is a really cool job. Do you want to apply for it? And I thought, sure, I could really use the extra money. Well, as it turned out, I really, really loved my library work. I was just really happy when I was at work. But I still didn't really consider it as a profession. And so, I went to grad school to study for a master's degree in South Asian religions. And I continued to work in libraries when I was at that university and just really continued to fall in love with library work. So, rather than applying for PhD programs at that time, I decided to get my MLIS and I went to the University of Pittsburgh and worked very closely with Dr. Sue Almond. Some of you might know her. She's now at San Jose State. She was a very good mentor to me. After I graduated from library school, I was the head of technical services in a small public library in Massachusetts. And I did have one direct report there. But I didn't do any hiring at that time. I then quickly moved back to the academic library setting and became a collection development librarian at a small Catholic liberal arts school in Boston. And then I decided I wanted to come back home to be a little bit closer to Pennsylvania and got a job as a reference librarian at the University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg. Was there for about four years when my boss retired and I decided to go for her position. And so, I've been in my current position as the director of the library and the coordinator of regional campus libraries for about a year and a half now. So, compared to Angie, I'm really a new hiring manager. But I've gotten a lot of experience over the past year and a half. I've hired two public services librarians, an instruction librarian, an instructional designer. And I am currently on the search committee for our library dean search for the University of Pittsburgh and I anticipated that I'll be running about three more searches over the next six months to a year. So, I've gotten some practice at this. So, this is going to start really the bulk of my tips for you. Before you start to write your cover letter, really sit down and read the job description or the announcement. If you're like me, you get really excited about a potential position and end up skimming the job announcement and start getting right to work on fashioning your cover letter or updating your resume. I really have to intentionally slow myself down and make myself read through the entire job announcement carefully. And then I force myself to read it again and again. While I'm doing this, I start making some notes in the margins of the announcement about the skills or experience that I would bring to the position and that I'd want to highlight in my cover letter or in my resume. Doing this helps me to collect my thoughts while making sure that they're still relevant to the job announcement or to the position description. Angie also mentioned this. All of you are preparing to become informational professionals, so it is expected that you're going to do your research into the institution or the organization before you submit your application. So, just like Angie, I really encourage you to take some time to look through the library's website and their various social media sites. For an academic job, it's also really important to take a look at the college or university's website as well. Ask yourself a couple of questions while you're reading through this stuff. What's the mission of the institution? What's the mission of the library? If you can demonstrate even just once in your cover letter that you took some time to learn more about the institution and the library, that would go a really long way with me because, again, it shows me that you did your homework and that you're diligent. This also helps you to begin to determine if the institution and the library are going to be a good fit for you in terms of mission and culture. So, if you're a forward-thinking innovator and the library's website looks like it's 10 or 15 years old, this could either be an opportunity for you to go in there and do some really cool things, or it could signal that the culture doesn't really welcome innovation. So, you're not going to know that just from a cursory glance, but this is something to keep in mind as you get to the interview stage because that's something that you're going to want to find out more information about before determining whether that's going to be a good fit for you. Finally, when you're reading through the job description again and again and again, start asking, start thinking about questions that you'd like to ask as the library director, the direct supervisor, and the rest of the library staff based on the job announcement and the research that you did looking into the library and the college or university. Pretend like there's like a little chat box there, and if you could just type into that chat box, what would your questions be for those people? If you do get called in for an interview, this is going to be really helpful for you then. Okay, this is a really important point for me. A cover letter is not a prose rendering of your resume. So often, I get cover letters, especially for entry level positions, and I understand why this is the case, but so often, these cover letters end up sounding like a prose version of the resume that I have right there. So, it says I worked here and I did this particular task. But all of that is fantastic, but it's all, it's easily covered or conveyed in a resume or a CV. So, you should be using the cover letter to cover the so what question. Tell me why these experiences and these skills are relevant to the job or position that I'm hiring for. What's important about your experience? What did you achieve aside from just completing a project? What did you learn that you'll bring with you to this job if you're hired? You don't need to cover your entire resume, highlight two or three really important experiences or achievements. And I think this is not unlike the three stories that Angie spoke about in her presentation. I really love that idea and I hadn't heard of that before. But think of these three stories maybe in micro or miniature version and convey them very concisely in your cover letter while telling me why they're important to this particular job. Also, everybody who applies is diligent, enthusiastic, team-oriented, strategic, goal-oriented, forward-thinking, collaborative and innovative. But not a lot of people actually prove that in their cover letter. So, I challenge you to prove this to the hiring manager through the use of the examples above. And you don't need a lot of space or you don't have a lot of space. You have about one page max, maybe a little bit more than that in a cover letter. And you have a lot of ground to cover. But these are all really important things. So, you want to think carefully about what you're including and why you're including it. After you've drafted your cover letter, I suggest you read through the job description and your notes about the library and the institution again. Ask yourself of what you've written as relevant to the job as well as to the organization. Have a classmate, friend or family member read through the job description and your cover letter to make sure all of it makes sense. I know some people do automatically throw cover letters or resumes with typos into the circular file, so to speak. I'm not one of them, but you really do need to make sure that everything has been gone over several times. Everybody makes mistakes. All of us have been there. I've certainly sent things off and then realized five minutes later that there is a typo on page two. But it's important for us to keep in mind that this is likely our first chance to make a good impression on a potential future employer. So, you really do want to make sure you've looked over it several times and getting another set of eyes isn't a bad idea because it ends up looking the same to us. We know what is supposed to be there and it can be harder for us to find the things that aren't supposed to be there. Okay. I've used both the terms resume and CV. And this is a distinction I think really in academia though. You might encounter it in some other types of libraries. And these are different things. So, resume, I've highlighted some of the basic descriptive points on these. And I don't really want to convey that this isn't either or sort of thing. So, don't spin out about this too much. But I think it's important to introduce these ideas to students who are in library school right now. So, if you're in library school right now and you're really just trying to apply for your first professional position, you're most likely going to use a resume for your job applications. So, that's going to be about one to two pages. But that's not to say that you shouldn't include any awards, honors, publications, presentations if you have them. So, make sure that even though you're trying to keep this to one to two pages, do be thoughtful and include everything that you think is going to be important to this particular job description. For an entry-level position, I really wouldn't go more than two pages. And sometimes it's just like a spacing issue. Maybe you just have too much white space on your resume and you could clean it up a little bit and get that into two pages. Like Angie said, it's okay. And I recommend that you keep a longer resume on hand that you can modify based on the job description or job that you're applying to. Like Angie, I'm not looking for a new job right now, but I am frequently updating my CV because when I am ready to start looking for a new job, then I know that everything's up to date and I don't have to scramble and think about the things that I've done over the past five or six years. Also, when you're creating your resume, don't feel like you need to go all out on the wow factor. Sometimes I get these resumes that are visually quite beautiful, but there's not a whole lot of content there. And I'm really interested in the substance, the content of the resume and of the cover letter. So I encourage you to spend more time thinking about the content than just the presentation. A simple, well-organized black and white, easy to read resume is just as good as one with all the bells and whistles in my opinion, especially if it's got a lot of substantive content there. This might also sound a little bizarre, but PDF, just remember PDF. So whenever possible, turn your application documents into a single PDF file and include your last name in the file name. This might not always be possible because sometimes you're applying through some sort of employment site through the college or university and you need to upload those documents separately. So in that case, you know, you don't really have the choice. But if it's one of those situations where you're asked to send all of your application materials to an email address, this is where this becomes important. So I primarily review applications in print. Right now, I'm not receiving such a large number of applications, probably no more than 20 at any given time that that becomes unscalable. For Angie, that might not be the case. She might prefer to review them online because she might be receiving a much higher volume of applications. But I often do have to go back and search through the applications. So if every, all of your application pieces are together in a single file and you put your last name in that file name, it is going to be so much easier for me to find your application materials and it's also going to make it less likely that I'm going to lose something, that something is going to get mixed around in the shuffle. It's not uncommon for hiring managers to be doing several job searches at one time. So anything you can do to help prevent anything getting lost in the shuffle is going to be a good thing. So if you help us out, we really do appreciate that. The interview, so just a few basic points. And I don't think I have it on here, but I would like to echo what Angie said. Know your background story. Also be prepared to talk about trends in particular areas. So if you're hiring or, excuse me, if you're looking for reference or instruction jobs, public services jobs, cataloging, metadata, be prepared for the question about, you know, what do you think the future of that particular area is. Also be prepared to answer questions about what your strengths and your weaknesses are. And all of us do have weaknesses. So do spend some time thinking about what those weaknesses might be and be prepared to talk about how you've been addressing those particular weaknesses so that they're not as big of an issue. So back to the slide here. We want you to answer the question that we're asking you. So the interview is probably one of the hardest situations because everybody is nervous, including the search committee. And especially if this is one of the first times that you're interviewing for professional positions, this can be equally, like doubly nerve-wracking because you haven't had a lot of experience yet in how to handle these interviews. It's okay to ask for clarification or repeat the question in your own words if you didn't understand the question. We really want to make sure that you're able to answer that question. We do want you to be successful. So don't hesitate to ask for somebody to repeat the question if you didn't quite get all of it. Also, it's okay to gather your thoughts. In fact, I really appreciate when it takes a moment for a potential candidate to think about the question and what their response is going to be. I found that people who do take a moment or so to think about the question really ends up, they end up giving a lot more thoughtful response. And that's very much appreciated by the folks on the search committee. Also, it's absolutely okay to admit that you're nervous, but maybe only once or twice. I've been in situations where a candidate says that over and over and over again and it starts to make you a little bit concerned because, yes, we totally understand that you're nervous, everybody is. That would make me a little bit nervous that there might be excuses that you might make further down the road for maybe why something wasn't done on time or why you weren't able to do a particular task. So just remember too, if you're nervous, the search committee is probably also quite nervous. They really want to find somebody who can choose a job and who's going to be a good fit for their organization. So these interviews, there's a lot at stake for them too. Also, make sure you bring your own questions. And I talked about this a little bit before when doing some research into the organization. When candidates come with their own questions, that signals to me that they're interested in finding the right fit because they plan on staying in that position for a while. So even though right now in my library, I can only hire on a one-year visiting librarian contract, I really want the candidates that I'm hiring to be there for the long term. I know that these positions aren't going to go away and the work's certainly not going to go away. So it's important for me to feel like the candidate is also sizing us up to make sure that we'd be a good fit for the long term for them. So if I'm going to invest time and experience in you, I want to know that you're also committed to this position and that you're not just winging it and saying, oh, what the heck, let's give it a try. Even though that might end up being what happens. Finally, are you asked to give a presentation or a mock instruction session? It's really not unusual in academic libraries to ask a potential librarian to give a presentation or a mock instruction session. So if you're asked to do this, make sure that you practice, just like Andy said, practice, practice, practice, that's always a good thing when it comes to interviewing. And make sure that you stick to the time limit. So for mock instruction sessions, make sure that you read the prompt that's given to you quite carefully. And if you have questions about it, do feel free to ask. Asking questions is always okay. Also, if you're, so for example, if you read through the prompt and you find that you're asked to provide an interactive instruction session, make sure that you have a small activity plan that's appropriate for what you're teaching. When the search committee says interactive, they're going to be looking for interactive. So really look at all of the words that are included in that prompt. If you're told that you're going to be working with freshmen, really think about what type of content is appropriate for a first-year college student. In that case, it's probably best just to cover the basics and give them some definitions, talk about, you know, just what the basics of college-level research is. Often for these mock instruction sessions, you're going to be given about 20 to 30 minutes, which is actually much shorter than you would be getting if you were actually in the classroom as a librarian. So really think carefully about what you're going to include in that session and why you're including it. And it's absolutely okay to have learning outcomes there, because that will help you to tailor the session to the prompt that you've been given. And at the end of your presentation, it's okay to say I would have also covered X, Y, and Z if I was working with a 50-minute class. So the search committee knows that we're giving you a really short time period, and we're not trying to set you up for failure there, but we do understand that there might be things that you can't get to just because it's such a short time period. And I think that is everything on my end. Excellent. Thank you both very much. Now let's open it up to Q&A. And I know there was a question that started out with Rebecca. So Rebecca, if you want to go ahead and type that question in again. And we could start with you if you like. And then everybody do think about what questions you have for Angie and Amanda, because there's a lot of good information here. Here's Rebecca's question. So could the information that you both have shared, could it be applicable for archivists as well? I've actually, I've never interviewed for a flight for archivist stuff, but I think the information that both Amanda and I gave are pretty basic interview tips, even if you're not a librarian. You know, I think what comes out of both of our presentation is to just really prepare and do your research, and I would think that the same would go for an archivist position as well. And of course, you just have to be more specific in that type of librarianship. I would absolutely agree with Angie. I've also never hired an archivist, but I do work with our archivists at Pitt. And I know that while their jobs are quite different than mine, or one of my public services librarians, there is some overlap there, particularly in working with the public and engaging the community so that your resources, people know about them and are using them and find your collections valuable. So I agree that these are really basic best practices, skills that you can take to almost any library position. So there is another question in here that says, oops, there's a couple of questions here. So in having to give a presentation or a mock instruction session, the question is, would you always have advanced notice of that, or is there ever a case where you might show for an interview, maybe the interviewer gives you, you know, here's the prompt. I'm going to give you five minutes to prepare something, and then you need to kind of get up and give a spiel. Does that ever happen? This is Amanda here, and Trina, I saw your text in the chat. I would say there are definitely no stupid questions. So if you have it, chances are somebody else has that same question. In my experience, I've always been notified ahead of time that I was going to have a presentation or a mock instruction session. I could imagine there might be questions where, like, what would you do in this case type question? But it would be a red flag to me if I was asked to prepare an instruction session like that on the fly. That to me as a candidate would be a red flag. And there's another question here from, is this Victoria? Let me see how far back I have to go. There it is, it's from Leanne. What is the best way to maximize class projects on a resume when applying for a library one position for a person who only has volunteer or public library experience? Well, first of all, I would say make sure that you have the volunteer public library experience on your resume. I, like, again, I think volunteering or interning is really good. Because I think working, whether you're paid or not working in a public library setting is going to give you those, quote unquote, street smarts that you may never have learned in an academic setting. And just to know the environment is definitely put that down on there. I've seen resumes where the current students have listed, like, various classes that they've taken. So I can see you, you know, putting down those classes and maybe a bullet point or two about some, any, like, major class projects that you especially feel proud of. You know, also in the interview, everything you say in the interview does not necessarily have to be in the resume. It probably will be in your resume because that's the stuff that you want to highlight. But, you know, if there is a specific, let's say there's a specific project that you did where maybe the project itself wasn't the most exciting thing, but you were the lead on it. You were the one that did all the organizing, put everything together, made sure everyone hit their deadlines. You know, it may not make it to your resume, but it's definitely a skill that you can talk about in your interview. So we have a lot of good questions coming through, but I'm going to get to Nicole's right now because it relates to what Amanda was just talking about. The question before when you answered that you feel like it was a red flag. If in the interview, the interview or gave you the impromptu presentation or mock instruction session, and Nicole's wondering why you would consider that to be a red flag. What does that mean for you when you say that? Yeah, that's a good question. There are a couple of things there. First of all, each library has different types of resources. So it would be difficult to really expect that that candidate is going to really have practice with your resources if they didn't know ahead of time that they were going to need to prepare something. A lot of times we can allow people to access some of our resources if we're going to be having them do an instruction session. Also, I think it's kind of rude to put candidates on the spot like that to prepare some kind of presentation and only give them, you know, a couple of minutes to prepare. That's occasionally we do get last-minute instruction requests like that. It would concern me if that was a culture where you're getting a lot of last-minute instruction requests and you only have maybe, you know, 30 minutes to prepare for an instruction session. So that would also concern me about the particular culture there. Typically, when we're going to be doing instruction sessions, we have at least a day to prepare for those and if you're a candidate, especially if this is for an entry-level position, you're not really going to have an arsenal of lesson plans at your disposal like somebody who's been doing it for a couple of years either. So I think especially for an entry-level position I would be a little bit concerned about that. That's a good point. It would almost make me wonder if I, personally, I got that in an interview. This is Jill and then I might say like, yeah, sure, you know, I can put something together but I'm just wondering is this something that happens regularly in your work environment that you have to do in prompt to, you know, instruction sessions? So you might handle it that way, too. Here's a question from Jesse. Jesse says, I've worked in a public library for eight years as a page and then as a library aide. Do you suggest that I still need to do an internship or is working in a library enough? I think there was also another question about like working in collection development and not getting a lot of front-line experience in public libraries. So I feel like I can kind of answer both of these at the same time. It never hurts to ask if you're currently working at this library and it might be hard, like for example, it just might be hard for you to work for free, like seriously, we all have rent to pay, right? It doesn't hurt to ask a supervisor or someone there if you could observe a story, you know, observe a certain kind of program. Observe something that a professional, like a librarian, librarian does. I don't think it ever hurts to do that. I think it's also a really good time if you're working already to find a mentor in your organization that you can really trust because they'll probably let you like see some of the stuff that they do. I would say that it's not always a guarantee that you'll be able to like literally help out with something that's more librarian work just because of a lot of public library jobs or union. There could be some issues with that, so I would say to check with your supervisors. I also think like I have a really good friend and she now works in public libraries but when we were in library school together, she did an internship at, I think, she definitely did an internship at an academic library or research library, a college and she did an internship at a special library, I think a law firm. So she was able to do a couple of internships, she knew she liked the public library setting but she just wanted to see if there was anything else that she liked better and it turns out she liked public. So I would say that if you can afford to do that internship, try it and especially if you can do one in another library setting if it's something that you're interested in. It's just a good way to test those waters. I would definitely agree Angie, this is Jill again. I think it's nice if you can do it to diversify your experience to have a little more, a different experience on your resume, taking the internship allows you to develop a different skill set, that's a great thing and then it also allows you to network and connect with more people in your field. So if you think about the majority of jobs that people get are often through networking, the more people you know and the more you've expanded your network, I think the better off you might be to be able to find a position later on too. That's just my two cents. There is a question here from Victoria which I think is a great one. Do you recommend applying for a librarian positions before you actually get your MLIS or, you know, there's another question that's coming to us, they hear who's the other one from, Amanda S. That oftentimes it takes a really long time, she's saying to hear back. So can people if they are planning, you know, to graduate, say now they're going to graduate in December and they're thinking that the application process could take a long time with it being their best interest to apply for the position, if they're asking for an MLIS or do they really need that to apply for the jobs? I get that question a lot as well. This is Amanda here. I would say, you know, especially in the academic library world, if you're like maybe three to four months away from getting your MLIS, definitely start applying. I did, I was moving back up to Boston and that's a very saturated market so I knew that it was going to take me quite some time to find a position and it's not unreasonable to think that a library search in academic libraries is going to take about three to four months especially if it's hiring on a more permanent contract. Also, let's say you don't necessarily hear back or you do get called in for some interviews but the timing isn't right in terms of you getting your degree and what they need. That's all experience that you can put into the bank and use for future applications. So that's not necessarily a bad thing either. So I have a question for both Angie and Amanda. For the positions that you're hiring for as library one, do you have on the job description that an MLIS is a requirement of applying for the job? Not that it's necessarily required to apply for the job but it's required, you know, once you start that job. So how does it seem to us? So how do you guys say it on the job description then? Like how would a student know it's okay for me to apply for this? Do you know what I mean? That's a really good question. I can't think of it off the top of my head but I know when I was finishing up library school, so this would have been about 10 years ago, you know, if it was, if it looked like my skill set and my experience matched what they were looking for and I was pretty close to graduation, I just started applying. Yeah, I think I can't remember what it says in our job description. But I know it's something that, if you don't have the degree yet, just like Amanda was saying before, we look at when the graduation date was like, so for example, we were really charged to hire these librarians as soon as possible. So when we first started in September, if anyone was graduating in May or December, we weren't going to even talk to them because we literally had to have people on the books in the fall. It was just something that was asked of us. But now it's starting to kind of, we're picking, it's starting to get slim pickings. I think everyone has applied and applied and so we're actually doing an event for some students from McGill University out in Montreal in a couple weeks and they're all set to graduate in May because now that the hiring process has slowed down a little bit for us, we can now extend, oh, well, maybe these graduates in May will be good. Like, we could wait till mid-May or June for them to be on board. But like Amanda said, like for someone to actually start their position at New York, they have to have already graduated. So what I hear you saying, Angie, is that if there are any of the students who are on the webinar tonight who are graduating in May who might be interested in working in New York, they probably should get in contact with you. Yes, please do. We need librarians. I swear. All thanks to adult, YA, and children. Yeah, you hear that, everybody? I hope there's some of you that are going to contact Angie. Okay, so there's another question here from Maggie. Do you have any advice for applying for a different position in the library where I already work? That can be tricky. Well, coming from someone who like, I don't know if I said I worked at San Jose Public for nine years, and I think I probably had like six different jobs there. So I was constantly reapplying or applying for jobs in that organization. I would take it as seriously as if you've never been in that organization. Like, take it as like something completely brand new just because it preps you for it. And I think it shows, too, that you're really taking it seriously, that you understand this is like a different role in your organization. I was on an interview panel a few years ago out in California, and someone was applying. Like, she was a part-time librarian applying for a full-time librarian in that same department. And she literally said in the interview, well, I'm already there. Kind of like my desk is warm and I have the key, so why can't you just give me the full-time position? That was, I mean, we didn't, I didn't even know why we had to keep going with this person. It was terrible. So I would say take it as seriously as you would if it was a brand new position. And of course, you know, depending on your organization, the way you apply could be a little bit different. So make sure you look into that. But yeah, like I said, I would just do it as if you never, as if you're coming into that brand new. I would absolutely agree with Angie. I was recently in a position where we were hiring for an instruction librarian. And there was a strong internal candidate and several strong external candidates. The external candidates came to play, but the internal candidate didn't, just didn't prepare in the same way. I don't know if that person thought that he or she was a shoe in for the position, but the interview and the presentation were disappointing. And as a consequence, that person has not offered the job. I've had that same experience myself, that people who already worked there kind of thought they already had the job and did not prepare and didn't do very well and then didn't get the job. And that's kind of crunchy when you go back to work later. There are quite a few questions coming in here. Let's see. Here's Elijah. I currently have a non-career level position at my public library working in the collections department, so I'm mostly behind the seat. Oh, wait, I think we hit that one. What would you recommend I do in order to get a job? I think we hit that one. If we did not tell me, I'll come back to it. Here's Helen. If I lack certain experience or have minimal skills for a certain aspect of a job description, how do I promote myself or convince a potential employer that I can learn the skills if hired? Good question. Do you want to pick that up? I can try with this one. I would say it really, this is Amanda, it really depends on what the skill set is that the job is looking for. So, if it is a highly specialized position that's looking for particular technical skills, I don't know, let's say like web design or designing repositories and you don't have any experience in that, I'm not really sure that you're going to be able to get around that. But in terms of something like, let's say, an entry level reference or instruction position, I think that there are ways that you can demonstrate how you've learned skill sets in the past. This would also be an area to highlight some of the classes that you've taken and some of the projects that you worked on in terms of like work ethic and diligence and motivation. If you can provide examples of those types of soft skills in your resume and cover letter, that's probably also going to help. And if you seem like you're an energetic and dynamic person who's engaging through your cover letter in your resume, I'm probably going to be interested in you because those are things that we can't train for. Thanks, Amanda. Here, this is going to be our last question and then if you have some other ones, definitely feel free to email either Angie or Amanda or you're welcome to email me and I'll give you my opinion on it as well. Here's one from Natalie though. She says, I'm a student with disabilities, specifically in autoimmune disease. I'm very interested in working in a public library and community programs through the library. I know my health could make me less attractive to an employer because I can become sick. But I don't want this to keep me from applying to internships or jobs. Is this something you would suggest I bring up in interviews? I mean, I'm trying to think of the actual terminology for this late, but where I would suggest to not say anything and we're not supposed to ask that. There are certain kinds of, I don't want to say like categories that are protected legally for discrimination, so things like if you're pregnant or if you're, you know, or if age discrimination, you always hear about stuff like that. Like we can't use those things as employers to decide whether we should hire you or not. They all have to be based upon like your skill set, your experience and how we feel like you would work in the organization. So help stuff, like that's a big, like we can't ask those kinds of questions. And, you know, honestly, like I wouldn't bring it up either. Because if it is brought up in some way, I think we have to, we won't take it into consideration, we're not supposed to. So why, in my opinion, like why even bring it up, just go into the interview and talk about like how great of a library you're going to be. Agreed. Agreed. All right, everybody, it is 6.30. Thank you to our speakers, Angie and Amanda. Really great presentation. Thank you to all the questions, participants. This was super interactive. I love the questions. I wish we had more time to keep going. But do feel free to contact Angie and Amanda. You can ask them additional questions. You can contact them to do an informational interview. If you're interested in moving to New York, you can contact Angie about some jobs that are coming up and thank you. Good night, everyone. Have a great evening. Bye.