 What qualities do you possess which will make you a good civil servant? Sir, I believe what I can draw at the outset from my legal experience is the ability to communicate, the ability to organize, the ability to convince and the ability to delve into legal policy with clear language. This is at, you can say, the background level. At the ground level I believe that my experience as a lawyer in terms of organizational and institutional discipline can add to civil services. Good. Can you tell us about some judgments of the Supreme Court which has redefined the constitution given a new meaning to the constitution? Sir, in any particular sphere or... No, basic constitutional issues which has redefined the powers of the executive, the legislative. Sir, the first judgment that is the Locust Classicals judgment which added another whole new dimension to the constitution was the Keshavanan Bharti case, which added the concept of basic structure. It basically dealt with the legislature's power to amend the constitution and it was limited to the basic structure. Then, sir, if we go a little forward, the relationship between fundamental rights and direct principles. It was determined in the Minerva Mills case. That is also considered the Locust Classicals judgment. Both of these, the spin-off came in Vamanrao and Iyer-Pohelo cases where what used to happen was once the basic structure doctrine came into being, the legislature used to circumvent the process by adding it to the Ninth Schedule legislatures. Iyer-Pohelo case, which is a Ninth Judgement, stated that post... Affirm, Vamanrao stated that post 24th April 1973, all the judgments that are added to the Ninth Schedule will also be checked for... Open to... Yes, open to judicial review. Then, sir, of late, if we come to the recent judgments, we have three judgments which are in the previous year and the year before that. One is the NGAC judgment, which has spoken about the independence of judiciary and struck down the NGAC Act. Another case is the Right to Privacy judgment, the Justice Puttu Swami judgment, which came out last year, which has affirmed the Right to Privacy as a part of Article 21. Was Right to Privacy not a fundamental right before this? What were the causes? Sir, actually, the position of Right to Privacy was ambiguous. In the two cases of M. B. Sharma and Kharal Singh, actually there it was obit-up because what happened was that... Yes, sir. So, another judgment? Yes, of course, sir. The Sharaya Banu judgment, Triple Talak, where two sets of majorities have come out. One led by Justice Keher, which said that Muslim law is personal law and protected under Article 25. However, the second majority, which was the real judgment, which said that Triple Talak, has been declared unconstitutional. Okay, now, coming to this. Subsequently, the government came up with a law, which is yet to fall. Do you think there was a need for a law when Triple Talak, instant Triple Talak, means nothing after that judgment? Yes, sir. Sir, what is usually seen is that a position of law with legislative backing has more force in terms of enforceability as well. Another thing is that perhaps the government saw this as a view as a point towards moving towards uniforms that were called in Article 44. So, those were the twin purposes. Why do we need to criminalize something which does not exist? Because after the Supreme Court judgment, it has no validity in that thing. So, why do we need to criminalize Triple Talak? Sir, one of the theories is that punitive approach carries a deterrent effect. Now, if you criminalize it, then it will have a deterrent effect on people committing instant with Triple Talak. Looking at the social reality. Yes. So, the fear of punishment is going to act as a deterrent. Okay. RTI. Yes. What are the views on legal position on political parties being brought within the Ambitra party? Sir, it has been a contentious issue till now. However, I believe since political parties are an embodiment of... Are you aware of some CIC judgment on this? Sir, there was a recent... Not so recent any longer, but there was a judgment on RTI and political parties. But I'm not sure what exactly it said. Okay. Now, tell us. There is a dispute between India and Pakistan and the ICJ. Yes, sir. There was initial legal hurdles which we crossed. And there would be some legal issues involved subsequently. What are these? Sir, the initial hurdles were whether ICJ had jurisdiction over the government. Now, what happens is under Article 36 of the ICJ statute, there are three ways of exercising ICJ jurisdiction. Sir, once ICJ accepted jurisdiction which was opposed by Pakistan, ICJ assumed preliminary jurisdiction to hear the matter. How did it bypass 36 declarations by India about Commonwealth nation being barred? Yes, sir. Sir, there is a principle called forum prorogatum, which is that once Pakistan and India have exceeded our parties to the ICJ statute, so once they have their parties to the ICJ statute, and there is a principle of customary international law involved, which is part of the Vienna Convention on Consularization. India has signed and Pakistan has also signed a protocol to the Vienna Convention. Yes. Which gives confidence. Yes. Now, let's talk about that. Now, last question. Are you aware about this term judicial impact assessment? What purpose does it serve? Sir, judicial impact assessment is brought up in discourse of late. What happens is that once judgments are given by the Supreme Court or the High Court, judicial impact assessment will be another body or another organization which will look at the impact of those judgments and whether the certitude of those judgments can be determined or not. I'm afraid. I don't think it's about the burden that laws will, new laws will put on the judiciary and for the delay in number of cases. Like we had 138 cases. Right. Okay. Thank you, sir. You are from Haryana? Yes. Sir, I was born in Haryana. Okay. I remember the relation. You know about the child sex ratio of Haryana? Yes, sir. Is it skewed? Yes, sir. It has been improving in the last three years. It has come to 914, I believe, per 1,000 minutes. Even now it is skewed? Yes, sir. Even with 914, which are now come out to it? Okay. Yes, sir. You know government of India have come out with some schemes and also some act for prevention of female fetishite and for welfare of the girls child. Yes, sir. Can you name them? Yes, sir. Sir, the main scheme that was launched in Haryana by the PM was Viti Bajau, Viti Padau. The two acts, sir, are, there are two acts. One is prohibiting sex selection and one is prohibiting sex-selective abortions. So, sex selection is the PCBNDT Act, which came in 1993. 1994, it came to force. And the medical termination of pregnancy act in 1971. That prohibits sex-selective abortions. Okay. That is about the prevention of the pre-natal sex. Yes. And now that is pre-natal forced pre-natal sex. Yes. Okay. That is one, then. These are the two legislations, sir. The schemes include Viti Bajau, Viti Padau, as I said. Then there's Sukanya... Viti Bajau, Viti Padau. Umbrella scheme. Yes. Number of projects. Yes. What are those schemes? Within that there is, if you have Sukanya, then you have movements like Selfie with a daughter in Haryana. Then you have Gudagudi Bolj. These are also... ICDS. ICDS. Yes, sir. ICDS. Yes, sir. And midday milk scheme. Midday milk. So that is... Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. I would ask you about Swachh Bharata Meera. Yes, sir. How it is very important and what is the present progress? Sir, it is important because as we have progressed as a society, we have seen that Swachhata has not been our main focus over the past few years. So it has wide-ranging impacts on our health, on our general standard of living, on our education, on how you see, even how we are perceived in the international community of nations by the outsiders. So all those factors, which is why it is important. The progress, sir, in terms of rural sanitation, I believe the latest figures are that it was increased from 40 to 44 percent to 63 percent. So in the previous years, economics have... It came out all in newspaper. Sir, 63 percent is... No. Okay. At the 8 percent to 76 percent. I am sorry. How many states and union territories have declared them open defecations free? Sir, there are three states which are rural open declared... No, no, no. You are right. They replace a lot of figures. You read up. Okay. Now I will come to something else. Yes, sir. What are the commonalities between these Swachhata Kabir and Namami Ganga? That is another... Yes, sir. There are some common... Yes, sir. Sir, Namami Ganga, the commonality... Outright commonality is that Namami Ganga includes Swachh Bharat around the Ganga Brahmas. So that is the outright commonality. But of course the base is that they both look at cleanliness. Correct. Namami Ganga with respect to Ganga and Swachh Bharat with respect to our rural and urban... That is one. The other is Swachh Bharat has open defecation free whereas Namami Ganga also looks at effluence within the river. It looks at how our industries along the river are... That is all. They are the components of the scheme. Yes, sir. The commonality one you mentioned clearly. Yes, sir. Behavioral changes. Sorry, sir. Behavioral changes. Right, sir. You know the... Behavioral changes. Behavioral changes. Okay. Thank you. You have a very impressive bio-data. How many courses, how many gold medals, publications and sports? Yes. What should I ask you to come? Tell me about your research paper which was published. Ma'am, I can start with one on the concepts of tying and bundling. Or I can start... No. What is this concept? Ma'am, it comes under the Competition Act. The principle is the main case from which it spun off was the Microsoft and Internet Explorer case in the European Court and Antitrust legislation in the US. So what happens is, with service providers, with their main product, you know, as a bundle, they tie various other products which consumers are forced to buy. So here if I ask you, tell me something about net neutrality. What would you say? Ma'am, net neutrality is treating data on the Internet as all equal. It is no... So there was this free basics and... Yes, free basics and... What was all that about? Ma'am, what happened was that, for example, Facebook, free basics, with their Facebook account, they were tying a lot of peripheral applications which came free along with usage of Facebook for people. Now, that would have ideally... For Facebook, it was a commercial interest, but for users, access was discriminatory. Would it be a detriment for some of the startups? Yes, ma'am. It is perceived as a detriment because they would have to enter into a revenue-sharing agreement with Facebook. Okay. Now, you've also played a lot of games. Yes, ma'am. Played squash. Yes, ma'am. How is it that India is not doing so well in this area? Pakistan and Pakistan, their teams are doing so much better. Yes, ma'am. Why? Ma'am, one is that we are quite focused on cricket as our main sport. Historically, hockey, but not any longer. The other is the institutional support and the organizational support is not as much as it is in the other sports. Sir, in cricket, since you mentioned cricket, we had lots of problems with the BCCIs. So, do you think the Lodha Committee recommendations are going to help cricket? Ma'am, I believe it's a good start because we did see cricket administration being... it had a lot of ills in the system in terms of MPs and bureaucrats serving long tenures, there being conflicts of interest. So, on those principles, I believe, what has been stated by the Lodha Committee is in the right direction. Now, you're from Haryana. Yes. We hear of the cops and we hear of other killings, some social problems, humans. What is your view on the cops? Ma'am, actually, historically, they played a positive role in the society. And presently? Present. Unfortunately, the elements that you can say have taken over the Khabban chariots, they have negative spillovers in the society. So, has the Supreme Court said anything regarding the cops? Yes, Ma'am. Recently, the Supreme Court, I believe yesterday or the day before, the Supreme Court has observed, it's not really a judgment, but the Supreme Court has observed that cops have no right to interfere and marriage. But one of the arguments that was brought on was that, you know how even the Hindu Marriage Act talks about sub-india and sagutra? So, that talks about five degrees on the father's side and three degrees on the mother's side. So, the argument is that either you change the law or you permit marriages. But that said, Ma'am, I think the Supreme Court is right in pointing out that it is a personal choice. Okay. Now, there is this problem with the Yamuna-Satras-Lin Kanai. What is the present status? Ma'am, the present status is that Punjab, after the new government came in, has withdrawn the idea of their legislation. They had to bring about a legislation. And Punjab has said that they will not. And they have not, they have severed any proposal of sharing of the Kanai as such. And they want to start returning the land to them? Yes. Yes, Ma'am. Now, last question, Neethi, are you aware of it? Yes, Ma'am. Are you aware of it? Yes. Ma'am, I think, I believe it has two latters. One is focused on cooperative federalism, which is dealing with the states and engaging states and bringing states on board in the government of India's programs. And the other is their knowledge or policy think-tank role. All right. Thank you. Right. I'll ask you a few questions. Which agency or institution in India has been in the forefront in climate criminalization of politics? Sir, in terms of a non-government organization, we have the Association of Democratic Reforms, which brings out facts and figures. But if you say which organization is the Supreme Court, which through its judgments has attempted to... They have some judgments. There are some judgments in this case. Sir, the recent landmark judgment was a Lili Thomas case, where they struck down section 8-4 of the representation of people that 1950s. Right. That was one. Sir, one was... When they brought in the nota, none of the above option. One was Jan Chaukidar's case. The latest judgment? Sir, the bar of six years plus conviction came in the Lili Thomas case, which is... Right. That is now... Yes, sir. The latest last year and towards in October, remember, it was another... This type of look. Sir, in which direction... Special groups. Yes, sir. To set up 12 fast track codes for... Yes, it was... It was being done. It was chasing the government to establish... Yes, yes. ...government has to send a recommendation. It is appropriate. That's right, sir. Okay. What is unclosed? UNCLOS. Yes, sir. Very brief. Yes, sir. Unclosed is the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea. It was brought into force in 1994, drafted in 1982. How many countries have accepted it? Sir, I don't know the exact numbers. Is it voluntary or it is mandatory? Sir, all conventions are voluntary, but UNCLOS is also drafting of what was believed or considered by the ICJs already a part of customary international law principles. So, but of course, Article 21 of the Vienna Convention on Law of Treaty says that any convention is voluntary for every country. Sir, if I may... What is Supreme Court's position on branded drugs and generic drugs? What is its latest position and what was that judgment? Yes, sir. So, I'll start with the judgment. It was in Novartis case where Glyvik, its prime anti-cancer drug, was not granted its second... What was the judgment? So, the judgment is on Evergreen, which is Section 3D of the Baton Act, which is where they've said that any drug that has to continue its beta needs to have an appreciable improved impact... Efficacy. Efficacy, apart from what its original drug... Can't be only an incremental... Yes, sir. And Glyvik was only a beta-crystalline form of it. Okay, got it, got it. Now, Google has been fined, you must have read 136 crores. Right, sir. What is the reason it has been fined? Right, sir. Sir, I believe it has been... I'm sorry, sir, I'm not sure, but if I am maybe in the right direction, I believe it's because of its search engine being monitored to Google's favourite search results. That was the main issue. They call it search bias. Search bias. It creates a search bias. Yes, sir. Now, does it conflict with the principle of net neutrality? Yes, sir. I mean, whatever the finding of the CCI is. Sir, Praveh FSI, any meddling with treatment of the internet or data does conflict with net neutrality. That says, sir, Google... Who controls internet? Sir, the internet is governed by ICANN, which is... It used to be dominated by US government, but now it has been... After Dilma Rousseff from Brazil's initiation, it has been an independent organisation. What is global commons? Sir, global commons are... For example, you have the high seas, which are considered as quality... Just name... Yes, sir. Sir, high seas... High seas is one. Space. Outer space. Outer space, yes. Outer space. Then, now, within the high seas, you have all your minerals, which are vested, which are also considered as global commons. Of course, the international seabed authority under the UNCLOS monitors them, but they are considered as global commons. What else? I can't think of any other movie. Perhaps... Space? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. Internet? Yes, sir. Antarctic region? Sorry, sir? Antarctic region. Yes, sir. Thank you. Now, recently, there's a conflict. Lawyers cannot be MPs or vice versa. MPs cannot do lawful practice. Sir, there's a proposition... What is this case? Sir, there's a proposition to... In which file is this case? Sir, I'm not aware of whose file... Whose environment would? I'm not aware of whose file... So, we should be MP, I think. Yes, sir. Okay, right. We'll close the matter here.