 Sam, you're good? Okay, board. Everybody good? Okay. So, I will call the September 10th, 2018 Select Board meeting to order and invite you to rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. I'd like to welcome everyone to tonight's Select Board meeting and just remind you if you could turn your cell phones to silent or off, that would be greatly appreciated. So they don't go off during the meeting. Okay. So, Mr. Manager, we have, I see we have an agenda addition request. We do. I have a request, I have a request to add an item. We have a demo from Dennis Lutz to me regarding the leasing of a snow plow machine to replace one that we currently have. If we can, if you would so be inclined, we could probably move it to 5C since he's already 5A and 5B. And this is time sensitive and that's why we're seeing it tonight and not waiting. It is time sensitive and it was my fault that it did not get in. I missed it. Okay, is there anything else that's looking to be added? No? Okay. So, what's the Board's pleasure? Do I have a motion to add the request to lease a new trackless sidewalk plow to our agenda for 5C? Second. Thank you, Arlene. Do I have a second? Second, Mr. Chair. Any further discussion about adding that item to the agenda? Sorry, sorry. Yes. Can you explain the time sensitivity? Yes, and certainly Dennis can as well. But the general just is we have a, I wouldn't say old but not effective trackless machine. And our local dealer that we use has two left. And so if we wait a couple weeks until the next one, he may not have any in stock. And if we miss it, the earliest we probably would get another one is mid-January. And he had five what a week ago, right? He had five about two months ago. Oh, there's one left. Okay. So it's changing. And we don't have another meeting until October. Yeah. Thank you. Any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor of adding the snow plow item to the agenda? Signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Most passes 5-0. Thank you all. Okay. We're going to move on to the next item, which is public to be heard. This is time for the public to speak to the select board on any items that are not on the agenda tonight. Is there anyone here wishing to speak during public to be heard? Diane, if you could state your full name. After hearing numerous comments in my many capacities that I'd like to share with you that the quality of the snow plowing is a question. The residual two inches left on the sidewalks in both the village and the town seems to be concerns of the resident that he spoke of. And I'm sharing with you since you're talking about snow plows are reminding that perhaps we need to review or if it's not being reviewed how snow is removed from all the sidewalks in the entire town. So that children may indeed walk to school unencumbered by snow. And if it could be reminded that one businesses plow out there dry winds and they push the snow back onto the sidewalks, they need to remove it as per ordinance. And that seems to be forgotten. We've gotten also in January when we got our first snow, but it'd be nice to get reminded now when they're getting their contracts for snow. I don't think there's any promise of having the sidewalks cleared down to the cement. I know it takes, Dennis and I were talking about this today, it takes eight to ten hours just to do one pass and one pass often doesn't do it. So to try to time it to make it perfect for the kids, I think the chance is almost zero. Well, the best they can do. The best they can do is what they will do. And even better, would be even better yet. I understand the issue, but it's not an easy one because of limited manpower and equipment and money. Well, a reminder that the town understood. Which is the line to walk on the sidewalks? Okay, but on your second part about businesses pushing snow onto the sidewalk, I'm not sure about what the policy is outside the village on that. I don't know if there is one. There's an ordinance that says you can't do that. There's an ordinance that they're not supposed to make piles as when they plow, they're supposed to removing those piles. Leaving it as they saw when the plow came by, we're moving in the first place. What's happening is that snow is being pushed onto the sidewalks as people's driveways are being allowed out. I know the priority is to get the streets cleared. And the town sometimes puts it onto the sidewalk because it has to get off the street. Dennis, if there's any other comment you want to make on that, I don't want to put you on the spot though. It's something that we're looking at in terms of this funding winter. We're finding, following Evan's lead in that, in terms of the discussions with the school and what happens. It's already been an issue in past years. We probably get the phone calls that we get during the winter, our mailboxes, sidewalks, and kind of make it to the airport. Those are kind of the generalists of the calls we get during the winter time, the majority of them. So we're looking at, every fall we come to the board with our winter plan. Right. And between now and then, which will probably be late October, we will come to you with a plan to address some of the issues that are out there. From when we can, how we can, the manpower issue and one of the issues is equipment that we're going to talk about tonight. We'll fit into that package, and then the public can weigh in at that point, and the board can weigh in. We then ask for the board's approval on the plan, and then we try to file the plan as best we can. So you'll hear more from us when we bring that through you probably in about, like I said, mid to late October. Hopefully before the snow falls. The town and the school district are talking, but the budget was set a while ago. I'm just reminding that. Got it. And I'm sharing with the conversations that have been shared with me across the table or otherwise. And so I'm just saying, please remember, and yes, I know public works the best they can. Setting that reminder out there. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dan. Yes, you can state your full name. My name is Douglas Whitney. If this was an appropriate time to add comments to what you've just mentioned, I think it's for the betterment of the town in general, not just for the school children that sidewalks be properly plowed and attended to. I've noticed many Vermonters who like to walk in the roadway when their sidewalks are not properly plowed, which I think creates a similar hazard to school children slipping and falling and getting stuck in snowdrifts. I prefer not to hit somebody in my car when they're rock walking in the middle of the road because they can't walk on the sidewalk. Yeah, not all sidewalks are plowed. I do recognize that. It shows that, and we review it and approve it because of limits on equipment, mad power, and money. So we're going to work with the school district to see what we can do to try and mitigate it, but it's not an easy solution. I'm quite excited with the half the sidewalks and the brick here in our plow and the half are not, so I do understand it. Thank you, Douglas. Anybody else wishing to speak during public to be heard? Okay, thank you all. We're going to move on to our business items and our first one is 5A and that's approval of preferred alternative for the Route 15 sidewalk slash path study for the section from Athens Drive to Vermont Route 289. Dennis, do you want to introduce that? You would? This is the best part of the meetings because I don't have to do a presentation. I just have to introduce people. But with me, we've got a number of people who worked on this. Christine Ford from the Regional Planning Commission. Greg Edwards from StanTech who did the studies. And they have some other staff here, too, and if they want to introduce them as well as they can. It's important for the board to understand, I think you all do, these are scoping projects. We started last October, and I won't take Greg's thunder at all, but we started last October. I'm planning for two projects. So this is the first one, and then following this, we'll be hearing on the second one. And we're now at a point for the select board and the trustees because both of them fall into town and village to select a preferred alternative. That doesn't mean they're going to get built. And that's an important factor in all this because we have the money to do the scoping. At this point, the next stage would be to get a grant to do design, then right away acquisition if it's needed, and then finally construction. And when you see these projects, they're expensive. We've got to go through the normal process and the normal process. If you were starting today and you were starting design is probably somewhere between five and seven years. So our next stage, once the boards do decide on a preferred alternative, our next step would be to go after that funding, try to secure that, and then we'll see where it goes from that point. But we really can't go to the next step until the board chooses a preferred alternative. And with that, I'll keep quiet and let you guys take over, and I'm going to go sit in the room. Thank you, Dennis. Welcome, Christina and Greg. Thank you. This project was actually part of the CCRPC transportation planning program, and was funded in part by them along the town. And they hired a scan tech to work with the project advisory committee. As you can see, here is made up of staff from the village and the town and the CCRPC, and we work with them through the process. Tonight, we're going to review the project area, talk about the process we went through, specifically look at the preferred alternative, perhaps in detail, and then gain any feedback or seek endorsement of those. As far as the background of the area, this shows, it's a little hard to see, but it actually is on the prioritization plan or out of the town plan. And it extends from a long route 15 from Athens Drive to Vermont 289. So that in a larger view, you can see here on the screen, the extent of it was about, it's about two thirds of a mile. And in yellow on each end is where there's shown existing bikes, but either shared use path and or sidewalks. And this area is, the focus of this scoping study was looking at pedestrians and bikes and how to accommodate them within this stretch of route 15, which really has some different characteristics than probably on either end of it. Do you remind us just what length that is? It's about two thirds of a mile. And as Dennis said, we're in the project definition phase. Following that process, then you get into the funding and engineering. So that we are looking at the issues and coming up with alternatives. And where we are, we've been through identifying the problem or purpose and need and we're, of course, down to this selected alternative after going through a public process. The timeline included a couple of public meetings, an initial one of local concerns, then evaluating the alternatives and then presenting those to the public and then working with the project advisory committee to come up with a preferred alternative. So that the purpose and need is this, really this connecting facility, connecting the existing ones out there, connecting neighborhoods, making an inviting corridor, accommodate all ages, and really contribute to this regional bicycle network, which it would be part of. As far as alternatives that we looked at was no action, whether it was just to leave it the way it is, or use or put in a 10-foot lighted shared use path with bike lanes, an alternative free was an 8-foot wide path, again with bike lanes. The existing section that's out there today is about 28 feet or so of pavement. So there's two 12-foot lanes and two 2-foot shoulders. More or less it varies a little bit, but generally that's what's out there today. And if you looked at the alternatives that were considered, it would be the actual widening of the roadway on the order of about 4 feet, 2 feet each side, and then a 5-foot green buffer and then an 8 or a 10-foot path on the side. And actually in working through this, the state has a plan resurfacing project. It's actually the continuation of the one that was out here. That's going to continue up Route 15. I believe it's going to go all the way to Underhill. And their plan is to provide 4-foot shoulders. So that portion of the project with the bike lanes is going to be accommodated with that resurfacing project. If you look at a plan of the project, we look in talking with the advisory committee, we considered, well, should you put on north side, south side? Should we look at both sides? And it really seemed to make most sense. We started off just looking at the south side, just because that's where the connections are on each end of the segment and it would avoid crossing. In our initial look, we didn't come up with any really huge hurdles by having it on the south side. When you focus in on it at the beginning, down by Fairview Drive, there's already an existing pretty wide shoulder, an 8-foot shoulder and a 5-foot sidewalk. This section actually suggests putting in an 8-foot wide path, really just kind of widening the sidewalk out and narrowing the shoulder, and that would, but as you got beyond Athens Drive, then you would have that green buffer separating the 8-foot shared-use path. And I'll focus into another area. This app, it's at the Brian French property, and this is as you're going down the hill closer to the Indian Brook crossing. And this is where it's the house that's probably closest of any of them to the roadway. So we wanted to see how that would fit and how the driveway would operate when you constructed a path there. And what we found is that by shifting the path out to the edge of the roadway in that area, then a passenger car could actually turn around in his driveway and exit under Route 15, and it would minimize any impact to their operations. We also looked at what would happen at the Indian Brook crossing, and the actual culvert at Indian Brook is actually quite wide. And that by putting a head wall around that existing culvert, that we could actually extend the path through that area and have minimal impact to the wetlands and the stream, we wouldn't be extending the culvert at that location. So it makes it a relatively, really simple to accommodate. Although that culvert is of an age where eventually this state will be looking at doing some either repairs or replacement. As you continue up to 289, again the shoulders widen out. They're about eight foot wide shoulders. And again, that area, by narrowing the shoulder, you can relatively easily accommodate a knit foot wide path so that if you looked at it in a picture view, you can see you can still maintain a green buffer. The eight foot path really ends up kind of where the grading is now. It really doesn't impact a whole lot to put it in there. As you get up to the interchange going across the bridge, the lanes and shoulders again are quite wide there so that you're able to accommodate a bike lane and widen that sidewalk and create a path in the bridge area. So again, relatively easily to accommodate. We compared the alternatives in an evaluation matrix. And I guess I should say that the 10 and the eight foot path, really they're pretty similar in terms of their layout and how they fit. You can see, yes, the 10 foot path is a bit wider so it does have a bit more right away needs as well as it has a bit more wetland impacts and of course some additional cost that you can see in the evaluation matrix. That's about sums up kind of the difference between the two. In this case, the advisory committee and the staff came up with a preferred alternative. I believe you probably saw that in a written memo making a recommendation or a request for approval. And that was for this shared eight foot shared use path with bike lanes as described in the scoping study and as we've described here. And that would include lighting along the length of it and it would be, in a way as I mentioned there would be a component of the paving project which would make the four foot bike lanes. And let's try to see what else he has here. And it would replace the five foot sidewalk fairway drive with an eight foot multi-use path as we described and it would terminate on the east side of the Vermont 15 bridge of the Cirque Highway. And this is the recommendation on the staff. It was option three, right? It was alternative three which is the eight foot wide shared use path, yes. Do you want to add anything? So just where we ended up with the eight versus 10 feet. You know, since you have, I think we felt that it could go either way. I think 10 feet is what's recommended by some advocates but with on-road facilities and this is a location where we don't know that there's going to be the usage of the Burlington bike path so they thought the eight foot path would be appropriate in this location which is how we got to this and we also discussed lighting versus not lighting but the committee felt that future use of the path may warrant having lights on it. So those are factors that could be changed in the future if that was the desire but the committee was happy with this. That's right, yes. I think the thing that drove us to the eight foot wide path was the fact that we're, in this particular case we want the bike lanes on the road because it is a high speed bike route and sometimes if you mix those routes even a 10 foot wide path isn't wide enough if you've got people walking up it and a high speed bicycle is coming down and the problem is if you do that and if you go with a 10 foot path then you've got nothing on the other side so when we looked at it we said if we can provide those bike lanes on the road for the high speed bikers and provide an eight foot wide lit path going up there that should be more than adequate for that what I would call that next category of user which is the walker, the mom with the baby carriage the family that wants to get out and do a recreational bike ride and stay away from the traffic and so we felt that we didn't have to go to a 10 foot with the proviso being that we need those lanes on the main road for the high speed bikers and so that's the combination that's why we went the two four foot lanes on the main road and the eight foot wide path thank you so we'll open up to the board for questions or comments to Greg or Christine Eli the portion of the shoulders the four foot shoulders on either side that V-trans is going to take care of what is the estimated timetable that that's supposed to occur and if we don't have funding lined up in time for that is that going to be a problem if they don't coincide they would not be done at the same time and they're scheduled, I understand it I think it's scheduled for what they call fiscal year 2000 fiscal year 2020 which actually starts in in July of next year and if they go ahead and do the repaving and we haven't secured funding will they re-stripe it the way you have it in alternative three so we would get the bike lanes anyway that's what their plans currently show yeah and this is something that V-trans is generally doing wherever they can they're not just doing it for this project wherever they can get a wider lane for bikes and they're doing this across the state so it's a really great change part of complete streets isn't it isn't that a requirement actually to do that yeah I mean I think for paving generally it's just if they can do it without having to add right of way and I think that's always the issue with paving so if it's something that can be done easily you shrunk the drive lanes from 12 to 11 feet right to reduce the amount okay other comments, questions I like the idea of the 5 foot green space so that when the plows do come and the snow gets tossed off the road it's not tossed onto the walk but you have that 5 foot area to do it so that's that's great Evan I was just going to ask if does this if we approve this tonight does this commit us to anything it just directs the path of where things are going to potentially go exactly it's not a commitment I mean it's your it's your decision this is likely going to be a bike ped grant application that the town would submit so you are you are not locked in until you actually submit some grant applications it just keeps it kind of moving forward progress it demonstrates you have local support to maybe more eligible my question deals with and I forgot to ask this of Dennis does either of these alternatives change the speed limit the possibility of a speed limit change preferably down that's really a separate process compared to this scoping that was not part of that and Dennis may brief you on how that could work I think we talked about that as a committee it's not part of this but it was discussed and I think it is we would like to see the speed limit is reduced as you come down off the circuit into the village and that can be done as an independent action it's currently 40 transitioning into 35 into 30 correct you'll see the same approaches we get farther out when you get into the town center the discussion takes place with that and this is just my feeling from having done this for a long time is there's a point where you go from rural to urban or whatever you want to call it and in my view for the town that's probably either east of Sand Hill Road or maybe even a little farther out where you want to start to make that transition and slow traffic down and then keep that speed through that whole zone and I realize it's a main thoroughfare for everybody coming from the northeast but this is one stretch and I think the other stretch that needs to be done is basically from the SERP back at least to Sand Hill Road to look at those speed limits and make them consistent through that whole corridor it's an action the town can take we haven't done it yet but it's an action we can take independently to request that those speed limits be reduced from 28 to point B and it's probably something we ought to consider well you have a 12 foot lane which is wide take it down to 11 and then you put the path next to it you're trying to take the road narrowing it and therefore reduce that speed so that one of the comments by many of the residents on Athens Drive I know Darren's here is you well coming westbound you're going downhill and if you were originally doing 40 or 45 you are hitting your brakes just to get down to 35 and then you go to 30 so just comment and maybe the process I really like the feature of lighting that you're running here I just wonder how many other paths we're going to have to light as people see this one and fall in love with the fact that they can walk after dark or bike after dark thanks so much for including that well we're talking about lights are there homes that might be impacted by the lighting along that path that you know they probably wouldn't want it to shine into their property one thing that you would typically do is that you would have shielding on the lights on the house side so that the lighting would be directed more longitudinally and outward and shielded from the homes yeah and typically the spacing may be over you know like a hundred feet or more so it would be pretty well spaced out as well so this adds to our plowing load so it's an ongoing expense for that as well plus capital too because we're going to need to maintain it as well we were just talking about this with an eight foot wide path you could potentially do it with a couple of different pieces of equipment you could do it with a pickup truck or a slower moving plow you may not want to go all the way down to the surface per se because it's asphalt it's going to be asphalt versus concrete but yes, it would add to our mileage one of the things that Dennis mentioned is that we could also at that time also discuss with the village our operations as to who's closer, who's got the capacity to pick up this extra mileage and then one bright spot about it is it's a straight path up and a straight path down so you're not going in and out of neighborhoods you're just going up you're making one pass you're coming down making a path here's the other thing depending on how the village and the town graded this is it a priority we may do it third in priority school routes certain other routes and then we get to this so we'd still be adding but when the time comes we'll look and see where we are but that is what you would be doing is adding to the total and to the capital other questions I was going to ask where the road is the town village line do you have the full yeah but that didn't show the whole road I want to see the whole point out where it is on the whole segment because that was a shorter segment and it showed where the line was but it didn't yeah it's there's the whole segment there but that's not the whole segment you don't see all the way to the search you don't mind Darren you're here if you can go back I think there's one that shows the whole length of it what are the earlier slides toward the beginning of it just wanted to point out so we just know so it's before Turnberry Ridge it's between there and Drive the drive bridge I think that that one is upward there but then it follows the road and that the property I think across from that driveway is in the village is that how I'm just just trying to get a sense that it's it seems like it's 85% town 15% village or something just trying to get a feel for that not that it matters just trying to get a feel is there anyone in the public that would like to ask a question or comment on this proposal could you state your name for the record please not at all here to discuss this process but hearing it and seeing it I'm just a little bit concerned with the purpose of it what the need of it is because there's like four houses down that whole length of stretch and two thirds of a mile is hardly worth sinking resources into money or into lighting into grading as you said about the culvert that's under there it's substantially wider than the road is but as we all know usually that's what the state and town does anyway because you don't want erosion right at the edge of the road you run it out there for a purpose now you're going to build something over the top of it which closes that in creates a potential for erosion I mean I drive up and down that road every day 10, 15, 20 times a day with kids and everything else maybe see half a dozen bike riders maybe a few more given days hardly ever see a pedestrian on that side of the road we have a bike path that goes up through I don't know the name of the developments but from the brickyard up through Fairview up into by the end of Essex and what not which is tied into all those routes that are all back there and come all the way front to Hanna Ferds and all in other key places that I think people would want to go if they were going to walk or ride so I just don't I just don't see the purpose for it I think it's a kind of a waste of resources when we're talking about now what I had was I heard somebody mention Grant if the project was fully grant funded I get it I guess I'm good with it but we are all as tax payers going to take on the burden of continuously being asked to bump the taxes a little bit more because we need a new snowplow a new this, a new that whatever it's just something else to take up that the resources that are already all pretty good so it's just a concern I just don't see the purpose I don't think it's enough use to warrant putting it there it's consistent with the town plan to do the interconnectivity of these it was a very high priority when a survey was out there for the public so this is consistent with the town plan and with the public's desire to make these connect but I appreciate your comments no problem I appreciate your comments I think it's a very useful project I have seen people and bicycles on that route I know it's a more direct route than the route through Brickyard Road and countryside which to be perfectly honest is not and I'm sorry the recreational path that exists now is not a consistent recreational path and it goes on to sidewalks to be perfectly honest I ride a bike on that and I try and get off the sidewalk into the actual roadway and every time I have to ride over a curb I have seen people walking on the side of that road people will continue to walk on the side of that road late at night as long as there are businesses in the area there are 24 hours a day there are people there in the early morning hours and it's as you've suggested a highly traffic route it means you two pedestrians is significant I do support it thank you okay I'm going to bring it back to the board and if there's no further comments or questions what's the board's pleasure on this one I love one I would move that the select route for alternative 3 is for project alternative including before recommendations by staff the route 15 the sidewalk path study on the section from Athens Drive to Vermont route 289 I have a second on that second any further discussion about approving option 3 as the preferred option for this sidewalk path study hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed okay that one passes 5-0 while you're up there we'll move on to the next one which is approval of preferred alternative for the route 15 sidewalk path study for the section from Susie Wilson Road to West Street extension Dennis did you want to intro that or just go right in probably a little more difficult to work through in terms of planning both the village and the town got deeply involved in this one and the staff as well as the public the I think the point to be made for the majority of this project is the reverse of the last one, the majority of this one is in the village but it does have significant implications for the intersection of Susie Wilson Road and you'll see when you go through the presentation that Fred's going to make as part of the Cirque Highway Alternatives the state is looking at Susie Wilson Road, three components to that one of which being the Kellogg Road intersection with Susie second being you go to handle bikes along Susie Wilson Road and then this intersection this intersection right now is almost at capacity not quite there's some things that can be done short of doing this but the fixing of this of the intersection of Susie Wilson and the route 15 and this whole intersection is really tied to what happens with the bike path with allowing people to freely exit along this area in the village where now the basically that middle median is a barrier you'll hear when the proposed alternative is to basically remove that middle median but you pick up that green space by extensions on what you'd call the north side of the road I would guess on the south side of the road where you see the traffic often there's nothing where railroad tracks and a lot of cases I mean it drops off there's almost nothing you can do on that side other than a couple places to push it out and so you're kind of limited to a great degree from the existing curve through there and so that drove some of the decisions you'll see one of the recommendations that was made was this project be linked to the project that the state's doing for that intersection and when you go through it you'll kind of see why we're not going to get into the details but they need to go together as a project to make this both of them work so with that and this one is also not funded fully though right? this one is not funded fully there are some funky things with this one that may bring it about the other one is totally a town no a town when the Cirque Highway was not built we received money for Cirque Highway alternative projects one of the projects was to create a safe bike and pedestrian location from Winooski through to West Street in the village well the state is actually designing through the Susie Wilson Road but they held off on this section because essentially we weren't in total agreement village and town as to how we're going to handle this section and so it was postponed so there may be alternative funds available for this one I don't know the other issue in this one is the state delayed their Class 1 paving in the village so they stopped it at West Street instead of continuing it so there is some Class 1 paving funds that have been promised by Viterian Feetrans promises or promises but been promised to essentially help the overlay of this so there may be some other funding that's available for this to make this happen the key is where's the funding for the intersection so this the funding is a little bit different on this one and it may move it a little faster than the other one because we really need to fix the intersection as well that's a total different discussion the other one was seven to eight years out probably so this one could be a little sooner or possibly the intersection needs it now but we're probably talking four to five years on this one probably more realistically I'll go quickly through the first set of slides it went through the same process with the same people and really concurrently the two together which made it a pretty efficient process and we'll really jump right to where the project area the main project area is from Susie Wilson Road intersection along route 15 eastward towards the village to west street and we'll also talk about an option that goes up to Ethan Allen math well you have that up the village line is really at the intersection the intersection is within the village it actually is at that point too is where route 15 changes from a state highway that's only maintained at the state into a class one town highway that's only maintained by the village they did that a number of years ago not that many years ago when they wanted to dress it up and put the lights in and so on there is a planned shared use path that's currently in design that's going through right away would be trans that's going from ski and lime kiln road up to Susie Wilson Road it's shown in yellow here it's along the north side and it ends at it would end currently at Susie Wilson Road they're also on the other end there are bike lanes that go into the village along route 15 their buffered bike lanes is when they went to that the road died is what I'd call it they went from a four lane to a three lane section and put in bike lanes on the outside so those are the conditions and this is that again a missing link between those two sections let's see and again we're in the project definition phase and we're selecting a preferred alternative the same timeline in the purpose and need here is that the need is is this missing link but also to accommodate all users not just say on-road or off-road but all age groups the alternatives that were considered again was a no action as well as looking at taking the four lane section maintain the median but making it two lanes with a bike lane and then alternative three was three lanes with no median the existing section that's shown here is that and this is where if you're looking eastward towards the village on the right is where Dennis mentioned the road tracks are and then you have a 24 feet of pavement a 16 foot which is two lanes 16 foot median and then again 12 foot lanes or 24 feet there's a 4 foot buffer strip and then a 5 foot sidewalk and in that buffer strip are where the typically the area utility lines are and the right away line is generally about 4 or 5 feet beyond that existing sidewalk in this area as you probably know has seen some evolution over the years from initially it was constructed in the late 60s as a four lane highway there wasn't much development there were a few homes along it and now of course has become developed with a lot of commercial as well as multifamily housing so alternative two is as described here is with two lanes the median it was sort of the it was taking the the minimalist approach in terms of the amount of construction it kept the curb to curb width and it would keep the existing intersections really configured as they are the lanes the bike lanes would taper through the intersections but it would reduce it the lane for the majority of it and it would maintain the median therefore that would still require the use of the two jug handles on each end of the this section to gain access or make left turns into or out of any of the properties on the north side of route 15 so this alternative did not preclude that operation it maintained that in that situation is being looked at as part of the intersection project that Dennis alluded to in terms of how do you accommodate that therefore one way to accommodate that is to take and maintain the right side curb one is over adjacent to the railroad and work northward by providing bike lanes that are buffered from the traffic and we talked about over time there will be an evolution of how to physically separate those but to have 11 foot travel lane a 12 foot center lane that would be really a left turn only lane into the driveways on the north side and then a single lane around with a buffered bike lane that allows you to move that north side curb out from where it is today about 12 feet so you end up with a wider green strip if you will along that side of where the properties are it would require removing the median and but that gets more or less replaced with this greater buffer area and then it was envisioned to accommodate the off road users that the sidewalk would be widened from 5 to 8 feet and that pretty much remains within the existing right of way to do that so in plan view this shows that three lane alternative with the median removed we can zoom in a little bit and Susie Wilson road there it would taper out into a four lane section for that stretch so that the intersection would really operate similar to what it does today it's just it would taper down to one lane as you get away from the intersection there would be a crossing of route 15 at east side of Susie Wilson to access that south bound excuse me that east bound bike lane on the south side this alternative allows you to remove that existing jug handle and slip lane operation now if the intersection was done at the same time it might look a little bit different than this but it would again you would need that jug handle operation that's there today if you're driving out there now and you try to make all these businesses and expansion that's occurring along 15 with the apartments everything else in order to go back into the village with the median you have to come down to this intersection or go through St. Mike's or go someplace else and make that U-turn we've looked at that a number of different ways with the state there's no way with the space you've got with the impaired waterway you've got up here with the land area even if you were to square all of it out there there's no way to get that reverse turn because you're too close to the intersection cars that are trying to do that now it's almost impossible to do that left turn to get back and it can't be designed so by eliminating if you eliminate that turning movement then how do these cars get out they get out by eliminating the median if you eliminate the median you can go either way coming out of those apartments and houses so you don't have to come up here and make a U-turn and a few cars that may want to make a U-turn would have to go down and go around through Pinecrest to come back out but all those houses now rely on this turning movement which is essentially at this in mind view unsafe and untenable and I think in the state's view who's designing an intersection by eliminating that median it allows you to have that movement and you don't need this movement any longer and it makes a big difference in terms of getting vehicles through this intersection and the capacity of what an intersection can handle so that's why the two products are kind of tied together if you were to keep the median you've got to have another solution in here to reverse traffic and I'll be honest there is no solution to be able to do that with the limits of what you've got for topography so Dennis it looks like the median is sort of moved to the north and the trees are moved as well yeah the trees would go into that green space and I think during some of the public hearings there's a question about the backing up of traffic you have to understand this is sculping this isn't final design and so you want to basically do as time went on you want to take no still great time in here but you get into your one lane coming this direction where it then goes into two as you approach the intersection that queue length can be as long as you need it to accommodate the traffic to get them through the intersection but essentially the timing of this intersection you need two throws two throws coming off the Suzy Wilson Road where there's only one now to solve the Suzy Wilson Road back a problem you need that kind of movement to get that intersection to work but the length of the queue here can be extended and that's really these are sculping concept plans you finalize that during final design when you do a lot more detailed traffic you say okay instead of having the two lanes back 400 feet they really need to be back 600 feet but you still have enough room to accommodate the rest of the apartments with that third lane that's what went on in the committee based upon the input from the engineers and from the B-trans doing the intersection thanks for that clarification and so on-road bicyclists that would be going westward as they get close to that intersection where it goes out into two lanes on the approach to Suzy Wilson they're actually going up onto the path and that would put them in position lined up to continue through across Suzy Wilson Road and onto the planned path that's currently being designed for the for that eastbound rider this configuration would give them two crossings they'd have to cross Suzy Wilson then they'd cross route 15 and hence that's why we'll talk about an option A when we go when we talk more but just some more details about this when you look at the other end of it you look at West Street that shows that you have it's pretty much the configuration that's out there today where you have a right turn lane a through lane and a left turn lane and the bike lane continues through the intersection it would have pavement markings in that transition area for those right turners you'd know you'd be crossing a bike lane so you have to be aware of that and then of course on the east side it would connect with the existing bike lanes that are out there today option A looks at from Ethan Allen Drive down to Suzy Wilson Road and there the thought was if if you're going to want to be eastbound and eventually be on the road after you get to Suzy Wilson Road ideally you could do that at a light at Ethan Allen and that would avoid you having to have additional crossing such as at Suzy Wilson Road and you could do that and then a seven foot wide bike lane facility by removing the four foot median that's out there today and putting in three 11 foot lanes so what does that look like in plan view it's a little small to see but of course in the westbound direction it stays really what it is today and in the eastbound direction you'd have a bike lane so that you could come off the path you'd be stopped at the light for Ethan Allen when that light turned green you'd go with traffic into the eastbound bike lane and continue along Route 15 eastward that's a blow up of it just a question if there's a lone bicycle there is that enough you could actually have on sensing devices that would detect that bicycle and that would be in movement that would probably be advanced cyclists would take that probably not your novices and this shows what it would be at the intersection so that you would just simply continue through as you get the traffic signal then this evaluation matrix that compares the cost of the different alternatives as well as option A and probably the some of the bigger differences between them of course cost I can tell you alternative 2 would be primarily accomplished or could be accomplished as a class 1 paving project a lot of that probably 80% of it because it's just overlay and painting there's a widening of a sidewalk from 5 feet but that would and as well as in terms of alternative 3 there's a consideration that class 1 town high paving funding could be applied to alternative 3 as well to reduce the overall cost of that the thing that alternative 3 does is of course it addresses that U-turn at Susie Wilson Road and in terms of stormwater it has a little bit larger area of impact but there's certainly because you're putting in this additional 12 feet of buffer it gives you a great opportunity to provide stormwater treatment so it's not a huge issue at all but otherwise they compare similarly and again we brought forward the preferred alternative as proposed by staff which is alternative 3 along with option A 3 lanes, no median on road multi-use path on the north side replace the current sidewalk and there's a proposed that it could be done as separate projects anything else there great that's great open up the board Mike I thought I read somewhere that there was a distinct possibility that there would be more signaling and more lane changes and stuff on Susie Wilson Road subsequent to this if I read that properly do you understand that? Dennis? the primary change is from we go back to here from the lowest entrance to this location getting that second left turn lane which doesn't exist now the road in the right way has to shove that way some in terms of being able to fit those lanes the existing we have this out there now is right from the lows right aid back to Kellogg we are at the right way we don't have any more room when you're out there you start taking more room you're into parking lots for businesses or retaining walls for the hotel that's out there you run out of room and so the likelihood that there's going to be much change between here and Kellogg is probably slim and none to be honest with you it's probably not realistic to expand that we may be able to tweak it a little but to expect that you're going to end up with the right number of lanes and a four foot bike path on each side is probably not realistic you may be able to crowd it a little maybe we get three but we're not going to get that full enough at the Kellogg Road intersection that would also be reconstructed and that's what the state is looking at now that also is difficult there's this if you just mentally think of that intersection there's a large median there with trees in it on Kellogg that would probably go away to make room for those two conflicting movements there are the PM flow the left turn traffic trying to get towards Colchester and the traffic coming from Colchester trying to get out under the surf and those two had the same competing traffic movement that we have up here between Susie Wilson and this and so you've got to add lanes so you start to add lanes down there and you start to basically crowd out that intersection which means some of the nice green middle strip probably goes but those are the two areas where you actually have lane changes which would be like I say from lows to here from the approach at Kellogg in between I don't see lane changes because I don't think they're feasible so if I'm to understand what you're saying then there's not going to be the possibility of other changes if this were to be accepted there would not be changes after that at Susie Wilson Road I'm familiar with the Kellogg I know what's going on down there and I know what the state's trying to do and I get it I'm more concerned about the impact on this alternative three accepting this and then having more changes to Susie Wilson Road at that intersection the change that goes with this biped plan is this change that actually doesn't even go all the way up to low it starts part way down here where this curve essentially gets I don't know if it's accurate shown here it gets shoved over and so you widen in here to be able to get the two right turns and the two left turns and that's what's planned and that's what would go forward in combination with this and nothing else and one of the things just this is showing two lanes going eastbound I'm directly challenged and the two lanes are there to accommodate two left turns coming from Susie if that is what happens so so this is already taking into account what VTrans is discussing about that intersection and these two lanes receiving lanes from Susie Wilson Road would drop to one yes and then the question becomes how far out and although it's kind of pictured in the plan the Stintex looked at that's kind of a whole separate issue that we looked at in terms of design of how far out do you have to go to make those lanes merge so that it's safe for all the traffic and that's a really design issue Dennis the preferred alternative does it change the grade of the intersection from any because it's not great now does it degrade it does it improve it or does it just add this particular segment of the project I know that the Susie Wilson intersection work improves the intersection in and of itself does this improve the intersection grading I don't know the answer yet again I think that at this particular point what these projects are looking at up to the point they're at is the plan view how do you make the traffic move and how do you make the signals work and the timing and you don't get into the actual elevation of grade changes until you get into design and then you start to look at that and can you raise the pavement six inches and what does that do in terms of oh I'm sorry level service yeah the level of service level of service and delays are really what the issue is and they're tied together this well you're stretching my memory here but this is the single left turn right now is close to or at a level of service at and it's projected out if we don't do anything it basically reaches a point where you have no longer capacity at the intersection this turning moment in that single lane you don't have enough time to get those vehicles through it's kind of like a single straw trying to blow a certain amount of water through you put a second straw in your mouth you can go double the water through so if you have two lanes here you're essentially over a certain distance you're bleeding twice the amount of traffic in a certain time frame so that level of service and this is from memory drops it to like a C for the intersection so it makes a big difference in terms of having those two left turns and being able to accommodate then two lanes up here if you can't do that the intersection comes back and can I add also that we have met with VTRAN several times on this project we're coordinating with them so the intent of this project is to accommodate the bikes and the pedestrians and the intent of their project is to improve the capacity and they're going to work together and the timing is important too as far as getting the funding for the bike and pedestrian piece when VTRAN is ready to do that intersection this intersection is a circ alternative project which two governors the one governor and the other promised that they were 100% funded and so far they followed through on that but in our view the intersection changes the signal changes, the lighting changes are probably going to be 100% funded this will be partially funded through the class 1 paving grant and we feel that this is a continuation so this may be totally funded also again those are issues it's too early in the game to get an answer for that but as we go into design and construction we're going to push to have this be fully funded by someone then the town or village and when you do the design that's when you do the traffic simulations too to see how long these lanes are and during final design there's the same thing you go through the same two public hearings I think during final design that sounds right I think there's two public hearings one early in the process one later when you've got things really tied down to enable the public to come in and say can you change this can you make this whatever else so right until the time you go to construction there's time for more public input on what this model might look like so at this point you wish you got all the answers but we don't we've got answers to the point we can get the answers and there has been some traffic analysis done with this and here we're maintaining really what's out there today for the most part if in fact you did this say without the intersection being done you are adding a crossing across route 15 that would be a push button protected crossing but that crossing would be concurrent with the left turns on to Susie Wilson Road Can we go back to the earliest picture in your presentation that gave the full width of the project I'm sorry the extent on the actual road from Ethan Allen Avenue to West Street extension that one so I'm wondering about the portion of route 15 to the east of the project scope here at one point, correct me if I'm wrong but if you're leaving the village you're heading westbound on 15 around the fairgrounds it goes into two lanes and then you're proposing that it drops down to one lane and then opens to two lanes at the intersection of Susie Wilson I'm a little concerned about that bottleneck going in and then coming back out what is that going to do to traffic that's further east coming from the five corners area it actually is it actually is a single lane in each direction it does as you get to the intersection of let's just go ahead and remind this one as you get to the intersection it does flare up to two lanes you actually have two through lanes at that intersection the capacity analysis suggests that is not the critical movement in that one lane is sufficient for the through vehicles you still have the jug handle operating for the left hand turns just as it is today so yeah, there is that change but as you get further east then it does become one lane it's pretty short distance there's actually two lanes in the westbound direction on the left side where there's that right turn only off of 15 that the village put in two, three years ago it's not going to be affected at all that's correct the one on the west side of the intersection yes, that stays the same there's a median island up there now that would get removed that's where the fight is going to go through so what this is showing is paint that would be a green paint like under two in Wilston yeah, we got Sunderland Brook running through here and also other wetlands on the other side of the tracks and the table of I guess it was pros and cons showed the words were in red about the stormwater issue I just wonder if there's more detail around that the funding for that, the amount that that would cost is not included in this thing we would have to add to our stormwater plants that cost is in there and we would envision that it would be within that 12 foot buffer that's out there and it's a relatively small length when we looked at that Eric it wasn't a whole lot of area maybe orange would have been a more appropriate color okay, I just but it's a pretty, yeah and looking at what we see for stormwater treatment and things these days this is a pretty straightforward solution for this one Dennis, do you agree? what we're doing in a lot of places and I was trying to say historically it's been straight pipes or ponds and now we're trying to do as good as much as we can into the ground and infiltrate these are municipal water municipal sewer and you've got a 12 foot zone there that doesn't take much basically capture that stormwater and take it underground and you can store it and that comes out during design and you don't have it really goes to how much of the road surface you're adding from previous area not what you've got today so you're actually you're taking out that green strip down the middle but you're adding 12 feet of green space on the right-hand side and it's great that it's almost a tradeoff you may have a little bit more and you've got to deal with it but in our view you could deal with it underneath that 12 foot green strip and that's built into the or included in the cost thanks like the previous project is there a recommendation that any speed changes would be necessary particularly going from east to west that also came up that came up with the meetings too and maybe that didn't make it into a recommendation but I think it was even stronger on this one the speed limits wanted to be reduced we've had a number of residents request crosswalks on that stretch of road and we've been told that because it's a class 1 and the speed limit is a certain level the crosswalks on our feasibility at that point so if the speed limit is being lowered and there are residential neighborhoods there I would want to see if we could add a crosswalk or two the thing you have is that the crosswalks here are at a signalized intersection crosswalks as soon as you also are at a signalized intersection nobody lives on this side but if you're going back east that's a different that would if the village were to change the speed limit then the question of crosswalks on that area is an issue that you can discuss in the village from what do you want to do out there to make the cross traffic but for this project you wouldn't have any crosswalks because there's no sidewalk on the other side I guess what I'm asking is the narrowing of the traffic down to one lane would that merit slowing the traffic down as you're approaching that narrow that new narrow point 30 miles an hour east of west street I think it's already 30 miles an hour right it becomes 40 it becomes 40 I think that we discussed hopefully making it 30 from Susie Wilson to this intersection and my hope would be it would be 25 from that intersection into right I think it's the same idea that we talked about I think you have to decide we collectively the boards have to decide at what point do you go from high speed traffic loop 15 to city or town boundary and you want to control the traffic from that point through that corridor and keep the speed limits down I think everybody from the bike pit committee in the village to the committee that worked on this we're all in agreement and I don't know we didn't put that in as an alternative because it isn't something you can build but it is a recommendation I think everybody agrees with this to reduce the speed limit starting at Susie Wilson thank you well I don't know that that's something the trustees would need to talk about separately like when it comes time for them to look at the project it could be that review it any other questions from the board good if anybody has a short comment or question about this project if you could keep your comments brief that would be appreciated then we'll bring it back to the board what's the board's pleasure on this project I move that the select board approve alternative three with option A as the preferred project alternative including the recommendations by staff that is outlined in this document second do you want to add anything about speed limit or just keep it out as you said it no I don't think it needs to be added to the resolution alright any further discussion, Mike so this one I would assume is the same as the first where there's no we're allowing this to move forward there's no commitment at this point right as Dennis said there'll be more public hearings and so on and opportunities for changes there's no money committed there's not even sure if we have full money for it anyway it's just to kind of move it forward saying we agree in concept to this that it's the right direction thank you any further discussion about the roof 15 Susie Wilson road to west street extension project first signify by saying aye aye most best 5-0 thank you for all your work appreciate it okay we're going to keep keep moving we're going to go to item 5B.1 I guess we'll call it and that's the item we added to the agenda which is about the request to lease a new track list sidewalk plow so Dennis can you really take us through it because we just got that in front of us I appreciate you adding this to the agenda I know Evan took the hit for it but it's partially my hit also for having this come in as a late request but situation is this we have two sidewalk plows that are existing one is a 2001 track list that we've used as a backup so that one's 17 years old one of the things we're going to be doing with that it's only 400 hours on it it's been well used it is a quality machine the village also has a track list which is much newer and we're going to be going through that to replace what we can see the worn fittings hoses, electrical connections the things that might cause us a problem there's nothing that tells us how much more useful life we had out of it it's a secondary machine so our intent is to keep that the problem we've had is the machine that we purchased in 2012 on MB it has about 640 hours on it so it's about a quarter of the hours we have on the track list last year it spent most of the winner in the maintenance shop of the vendor we had a five year warranty that we purchased for it and they honored that warranty by providing us with a loaner that did work so most of the winner was in the shop that warranty is now up and the machine you can drive the machine the problem is during the winter time it lacks attraction to be able to plow the snow there's a continuing series of issues between electrical and mechanical components to get the real world drives to drive when you get into a loaded situation and like I say it spent most of the last winner at the vendor is trying to get it fixed the problem we have is the MB company was bought out by a company called AEBI Schmidt holding AG in July of this year they do manufacture equipment for airfield runways they've stopped manufacturing the MB we requested and I'll jump to the last item and one paragraph there we have done a lot of work with there's certain vendors that we deal a lot of work with on winter equipment HP Fairfield and Viking Civvies ones up in Morrisville they're both quality firms I view this as kind of an edsel situation you can't blame the dealer for selling edsels they were what they were in this case I can't blame the dealer but if you look at the last sentence of the letter they provided to us it says and I'll quote and he went through what they did and whether they can get or not get repair parts but in summary with all the data above and not a firm direction from MB if an opportunity presents itself to remove the MB from your fleet I would do so that's kind of specific I didn't really expect I'd get that specific letter and we didn't help them write it we sat down and said what's your opinion and what we've got and where we go from here so we did some inquiring the MB was a relatively new machine which obviously hasn't panned out for the company if it was a good product they're holding company to continue to manufacture it obviously isn't we're going to have a huge problem this winter irrespective of this this isn't really tied to the busing issue this is tied to equipment that we need to do the job so we did some scrounging and did some phone calls and we started out and as Evan said there was five machines and there was two and at 4.30 today there was one left that we can lease it's about $151,000 piece of equipment we can lease it for five years it's the least to own at about $32,000 plus or minus a year when you do the math on that program and I've given you a copy of our equipment replacement plan if you go to one of the attachments the first one is our existing plan and it shows us replacing the sidewalk plow in 2022 three years out if you flip the page we've taken that purchase out of 2022 and started leasing it this year and through savings on some of the other vehicles that we've purchased under the old plan and the old plan didn't reflect the savings so that's what it is but we're about $30,000 to the good because the sidewalk plow expenses to buy a new one would increase over the next few years anyway just because of inflation and cost of product so we're actually going to lease it now then we would be if we bought it a new one in 2022 what that then gives us is it gives us a new machine that will be able to stand up to the winter conditions I'll continue to try to use the MB until it fails which I have utmost confidence it will and then we'll switch to the second track which says the backup one of our problems has been that we run the sidewalk plow up in the town center we also have to run it down on Suzy Wilson Road so during the winter time you'll see your sidewalk plow chugging down from the town the east side of the town to the west side of the town losing probably about 45 minutes in transit it doesn't go very fast our ideal situation would be to locate one of our two existing machines on the east side of town and leave the new one up in the upper end and drive to the machine and we're talking to the village about space and some other parties to try to get in the heated space down at one of our other two machines in this end of town so that we can essentially provide better coverage in a shorter period of time we would I would be coming to you for this request irrespective of the busing issue the busing issue may require us to do more I don't know yet but economically it doesn't hurt us to go ahead and do it early it gives us the equipment we need to do the job and we need it I think that's anything I can tell you is we need it and in order for us to continue to do that job we need a machine that we can put on the road and count on it being available to plow we the question probably comes up we have the manpower to handle two machines one of the things that's a job that's being advertised right now is a position under the parts and wreck department for to help out and maintenance in the summertime year round position we grab that position in the wintertime to help us a sidewalk plowing so we would have the additional help to basically put two machines on the road probably most of the time so we're depending upon how parts and wreck makes out what their hires and the capabilities and everything else I think we have both the manpower situation taken care of and if we lease this the equipment situation for the sidewalks and the trucks and the operators the trucks are fine questions, comments for Dennis about this so Dennis this is a lease to own yes yep and and nobody would want to buy it because it's like a net but those towns that have it already they may want it for spare parts so is that an option to sell it to another town for parts at least it's an option I think what I would probably sound strange but I would like to try to get whatever use we can out of it if we can get it to be used and if we find which I think we're going to find that it's just not feasible then that's the point we start to talk to other communities about parts if we get it through another winner that's one more winner of having a backup machine because the other machine that we have although it's fine is still 17 years old and that's been through 17 winters so this one has a hard time going uphill well it has a hard time pushing snow which is what its purpose is okay what is the expected life of this machine that we're we've gotten 17 years out of the other one we're talking it's part of the the equipment plan but we showed about a 12 year life because I'm looking ahead that if the MB we're good we're talking about replacing that in 2024 so that's like a 12 year life but we've got 17 years out of the other one so at some point in time it seems strange but the price of the sidewalk plow is about the same price as a full size pickup truck with plow and wing it's in the same ballpark so if you reach the point where your sidewalk plows went down and you're scheduled to replace the truck that might still have another year or two you go back to the plan you adjust the plan to get the equipment you need in that year but 12 years 12 years any other questions or comments I believe that the second one through the five year lease to own purchase of a trackless M7 sidewalk plow and that the level of work replacement schedule be modified to reflect this change of the sidewalk plow purchase in FYE 2022 second Mike, any further discussion about approving this five year lease to own of the trackless M7 sidewalk plow hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye aye post thank you very much hope there's at least one left phone call tomorrow morning at 730 so yes back just jumping back one subject I was struggling to find a diagram to ask questions about alternative three and I missed the gun so my question really is to staff if I had questions or concerns about a particular portion of alternative three address that to you and let that let you slide for that out okay okay I know we have a number of people here who were probably here for the firearms scheduling discussion I just see and show hands for how many here okay what I I know it's 830 but we haven't gotten to the firearms scheduling discussion I think that could be relatively quick I hope so what I'd like to do for the sake of the public is to allow us to do that and then go to to have Charlie Baker up after that okay so then let's do that we would skip over the proclamation number sure why don't we do that just to make it complete make a motion to rearrange the agenda to move item 5D below 5E second any further discussion about moving the proclamation to be the last item on the agenda hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye aye most pass 5-0 good suggestion thank you okay so Greg we need to talk about scheduling next steps for firearms ordinance discussions so the language is not ready for review yet obviously once you start working on the language and taking some of the feedback that you gave on August 16th and actually getting into the ordinance it's a little bit more complicated than just plugging in some dates for one thing mea culpa completely forgot about the tree farm so I want to point that out half of which is in the town area where discharge is allowed half of it's in the village with discharge similar in my opinion to Jackson Hill and in terms of heavy recreational use and should that be brought into the conversation so I wanted to propose some language there also just cleaning up in terms of making sure that other parts of the ordinance are captured for instance a definition of a park would include the Horton property that 50 acres that the town took over not too long ago the way it reads right now that would be in no discharge it would just be a little 50 acre parcel and the woods where shooting is currently allowed that the way I read the ordinance right now there's no discharge in parks except for Indian Brook so that would be capturing that those are just some of the little nuances that need to dig into some more so with that in mind I was looking ahead and figuring out what dates are available to plan for some of that stuff and look ahead and looking for some guidance from the board as to when you want to continue this discussion thank you what I'd like to propose as we're trying to schedule these discussions is that we kind of break it up into two pieces one would be to continue the discussion of finalizing the town parcels like Indian Brook and Saxon Hill and the tree farm let's get that settled and agree to and then keep the ordinance open and then schedule another time when we could talk about shooting ranges because that's something that we need to we need to talk about as well but I'd like to with your blessing is to split that into two so we can handle the one till completion which I think a little bit more tweaking we're kind of almost there and then for the shooting range discussion it's going to take some understanding from legal to see what is even doable if anything and what I'd like to do between now and whenever we schedule that is have you send whatever questions you think our legal needs to answer and send those to Greg and Greg will collect those and then give them to our legal counsel and when time comes for the discussion we should be in a better place to really understand what he thinks is legal versus not and then we can figure out what it is we can do if anything and then further clarification we talked about wanting to have all five of us present in the room for these discussions and I think Elaine you're out October 1 and I am now going to be out November 19 so if we could take those two off the table since we want to have a full compliment and then decide how we want to do the other discussions and yes we need to be sensitive because funding season is coming and we want people to be able to participate but we have to kind of balance a lot of stuff so with that let's talk about the first part when we want to have the discussion to finalize what we want to do with the town parcels and I would say October 15 will be the logical one if that's working to be ready and for these discussions knowing how popular they are with the public we'd like to make sure that we have a place that has room to accommodate them like you did last time that was very good with the microphones all that good stuff okay so then that leaves we need to schedule the one where we could do the the shooting range discussion now we need to give Bill enough time I'm not sure what you guys think he will need because I assume he's going to get a lot of questions I'd like to give him a couple of weeks at least to research some questions if then the sooner the better would November 5th be too soon do you think I think we can shoot for that are the so how does that sound to the board would the 5th be okay for the to start the shooting range discussion is that being sensitive enough to the hunters if you want to hear from that so she's going to begin with that youth weekend is that first weekend in November then there's a gap until rifle season opens up enough I'm wrong I'm sure that somebody here can correct me this is the first weekend and if I understand the ordinance current is the ordinance what's permitted now is currently permitted you have not changed anything so if the select board does not adopt anything new that's the ordinance that's currently in place and second any ordinance that you adopt you can put an effective date into the future so as not to make anything confusing of what's going on now you have what you have and one of the things staff talked about was we would rather make it as good as we can make it and as less confusing as we can make it than just getting it to a date so we have October 15th any we just wanted to clarify again maybe we've heard this what's the process for changing an ordinance do we need to have a hearing for the board to change an ordinance basically you have to accept it basically you approve the ordinance then you want a public hearing after you approve it needs to be at least five days or seven days a little over a week then you have a public hearing once the public hearing is done you can adopt the ordinance immediately and there's also options for petitions from voters if somebody disagrees with the way the ordinance is crafted or written up there can be a petition circulated with five percent of signatures from five percent of registered voters to have a townwide vote on the ordinance so those are the two ways going a little bit further down that road were we to agree on language on the 15th for the hunting piece how much time would we need in order to be able to get a public hearing on and scheduled what I was proposing is that we just on the 15th figure hopefully finalize what we talked about with the town parcels leave the ordinance open so that means you don't need the public hearings yet because we haven't adopted or accepted it keep it open until we can figure out what if anything we want to do with shooting ranges that we might want to include in the firearms discharge ordinance and then at that time it would be I think more appropriate to say let's get all the language to have it come back to us to a point where we can approve it and then schedule public hearings from there as opposed to going through two ordinance changes right in a row does that make sense I understand it I'm not sure I'm not sure I agree with it but so we have the 15th and then would November 5th assuming we finish the public parcels on the 15th assuming that's accomplished then we could look at November 5th for the shooting range now if we're not done on the 15th then I think we'll have to just bump the shooting range out until we finish that and use November 5th for the continuation does that make sense alright I guess we should have a motion that sort of codifies that I'm going to take a shit, Stab I also want to just stay away from December a lot of people are doing holiday preparations and travel and I think that's a tough month to ask the public to come out to me I don't know what that's worth we haven't gotten there yet hopefully we can do 15th and the 5th but if we don't then we should have that discussion about what the next date will be I'll be glad to make a motion I plan to discuss forming up an ordinance for hunting on public parcels on October 15th possibly to extending November 5th otherwise on November 5th we would discuss begin the discussion of shooting ranges that's all thank you, do I have a second on that? second for the discussion, Mike so if we're going to have a discussion on ranges that we're going to have the same type of public, we're going to invite the public to weigh in just like we did with the hunting on the public parcels the public will play a role in that at our public meetings we'll have the information from legal we can discuss what we think is appropriate and as we did before we can open it up to the public and certainly listen to what they have to say and based on what we hear make whatever changes we think is appropriate or not I have concerns about how long this is going to I thought we were going to keep the ranges piece more separate than the way you're laying it out now well if we're going to do any changes to the or consider changes to the the shooting ranges they would need to go into the firearms ordinance the firearms discharge ordinance so and the conclusion might be that we don't want to do any change to that and then we just deal with the public parcels approve the language and do the public hearings on that but that was my thought that if changes are going to be proposed to the ranges then they really would fit into this ordinance the firearms discharge ordinance I'm just wondering about the time of the year and what don't see that happening until late November early December hello budget time hello holidays I'm just I want to make sure that we do this at a point in time where as many of the public can participate as possible we're certainly not to the public hearing point yet but I would hate to delay this important discussion beyond these days but I'm not suggesting that for a minute you're right we need to be sensitive to that when time comes to schedule the hearings we should have that discussion you bet great just want to add that the the whole place speak and the public engagement process that happened over the summer also has a lot of comments on ranges so direct your attention back to that excuse me a little bit as well just in preparation just to remind you that those comments are out there and available for comment or future meetings you have okay one more question so we're to get questions to Greg tomorrow if we want to relative to ranges starting tomorrow but what's the date if we want to have this discussion and give Bill plenty of time let's say September 28th at the end of the month okay Elaine regarding shooting ranges I'd like to find out whether you're expecting our attorney to attend and will there be any other expertise in the audience perhaps from forest parks and recreation or fish and wildlife wherever you feel that it's necessary but I strongly suggest we have some expertise in the audience yes we are looking to have our town attorney in the audience we will certainly have the people that were on the several people that were on the committee including the police department recreation and we can seek other people from fish and wildlife as well there was a gentleman in the audience on the 16th who offered his services I thought he was from fish and wildlife he should probably be there yeah if he has time I mean he was more than willing he was genuinely interested in providing whatever help he could I'd say we should avail ourselves of it okay any other comments on choosing the 15th and November 5th for the next discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed most passes 5-0 thank you all and for being flexible about making sure all five of us are going to be present for these important discussions okay so by definition it's we already moved on sorry and I did we had motion on the table and our practice is that we don't take comment when there's a motion already on the table if it's quick Tim yes as he was showing concern for anything you start putting on the table whether for public hearings and all this other stuff in my opinion if it happens anytime between at the earliest mid-october through December a lot of the people that are on the against an ordinance change us hunters for example we could be traveling not even available for those public hearings so we're looking like you got to keep track of that timetable to give ample opportunity for those of us who are opposed to any changes or are in the middle of hunting to be able to be available for those public hearings also that's all I wanted to say and I would suggest that you do emails too and we'll make sure that they're included in the pack and that they get read and considered as well Tim absolutely thank you my name is Igor Polanov on 198 Chapin Road I have a question when you were talking about the public land is the question of perhaps expending the buffer into private lands still in Romania I made a decision on that yeah okay so sorry I miss usually you turn around and say hey does the public have any comment I was politely waiting for that so I apologize for missing okay well because we weren't talking about the ordinance we're just talking about our timing I'll be very quick my comment is regarding just a plan of seed in your minds as you're formulating your questions pertaining to shooting ranges we talked about this we talked about hunting us hunters need to target crashes we would be we would be remiss in our task if we didn't practice before we went out and hunted so just be mindful of that if you could as you're formulating questions and starting to think about this we went for hunting on to shooting but that's a big piece of it as preparation so thank you for the time sorry thank you for everyone keep it brief appreciate it okay so by definition it's 830 and I'd like to welcome Charlie Baker and Jeffrey Carr our Essex Rep up to talk to us about the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission annual report kind of an update the report is very impressive you guys do a lot of stuff I don't know how you do it thank you for making the time turn the clock back 20 minutes appreciate that thank you for being patient and waiting no no no problem good evening so I don't want to take a lot of time but happy to answer questions the first page of the report gives you some background about what the RPC is it's an organization made up of the municipalities you have a seat on our board Mr. Carr is your primary rep the runner is your alternate we've done this for many years and we thank them both a lot and most of the second alternate rep for the village even more comes in handy at times and we appreciate it and the town your reps have been very active in our committees Jeff's also on the finance committee and energy committees so we really appreciate the amount of time they invest in the organization I thought it was just a happy investment of time to you yes I'm surprised you forgot and you have a lot of staff and other volunteers from the town that participate in our committees which we really do appreciate it moving on to the second page of this and the second and most of the third page lists out some individual projects that we worked with the town on some of which you've heard about tonight so I can repeat any of that and trying to look at some of the most of them are transportation related things because we have transportation planning funds that we're able to invest in the town again with your staff a lot of work on water quality storm water planning the new municipal roads general permit that's kind of tied into your MS4 permit and I'm sure you've had other conversations here at this table about that so any questions on any of those projects or anything yes I wasn't sure if I should wait until the end but if you're inviting questions now so the project that you're doing or have done the PATH sidewalk impact fee project has that report been completed I can probably best answer that jump on it that's partially from me not having to be able to follow up on it the report's been completed it's been presented to Economic Development Commission the Planning Commission I don't think the board has seen it yet there were some comments about wanting to compare it to what other towns have in terms of fees and concerns about having too many fees what are appropriate looking at some other towns that think South Burlington has a transportation overall fee that wraps in sidewalk this is separate from us so Darren's left but he's done a little bit of work looking into that and honestly I just have not picked it back up again so that's totally fine my question is you're looking at other towns and how their fee structures are set up have you looked at the village and does this study include the village and are we comparing impact fees in general that's the board for the village and the town somewhat it's part of the alignment thing that we're getting into fees and policies and procedures Robin Pierce has been aware of this he's weighed in on some of the comments the Economic Development Commission level so we have brought the village into it I'd have to check in with Darren and see if he's actually pulled up numbers comparing it to the village right I mean because like you said alignment we need to look at all of them so I was interested to see that there was a study being done on some of them so I'm looking forward to reading that thanks Greg thank you no problem anything else on the town specific activities the next section this is the town outside the village projects almost all of them sometimes there are some they benefit the entire town yeah and they're yeah let us know how we can help with any of that as we're working on things and then the next section gets into things that are in the transportation improvement program which is kind of our regional version of a capital improvement program it's a federal requirement that we have that in place for VTrans to be able to spend federal transportation dollars and so this is a list of projects they're not exactly in date order but you have a lot of projects I mean relative to other towns I'm not surprising your large population town but you have a lot of investments on the on the program scheduled for the coming years a couple with notes with the construction schedule to be determined and I don't know a lot of specifics about you know the local details of some of these projects but let me know if you have any questions and I can follow up if you do I'm sure Dennis has probably updated you about many of these there are funding issues with the Circle Alternative Projects which you know we were fortunate enough to get some of the more important ones in early we're doing a lot better than Williston is in that regard so there are you know and I think everybody knows that when we pass it at the MPO level CCMPO level because it's the CCRPC and the Chitton County Metropolitan Planning Organization that those projects automatically get incorporated into the state transportation improvement program it's the function of the MPO yeah so it's part of so we sometimes talk about as MPO business right we have items that are MPO business which means that there are some representatives in the RPC that are not voting members of the Metropolitan Planning Organization Board and so when we have something that's MPO business it's only the municipalities for example the low income or environmental advocates don't vote on MPO business but they vote on RPC business okay, nice the function is still there it's now just in what organization one of those little issues as we merged we figured out how to work through thanks for the clarification that's an example so yeah and really you do have relative to the other towns a large number of projects that came out of that sort of alternatives process no surprise you're right in the middle of it and so and actually you really have a lot of things program for the next few years so it's good not to see 2023 24, 25 you have a lot of things in the next few years program we hope everybody's enjoying the 117 project every day now that'll be done how do you like that cool mix product that cool mix product on the roads rough it's a lot better than dirt so that's planned to be done real quick November 2019 by November 1st they're going to this phase they're going to hot mix it that's my understanding if I'm wrong Mr. Executive Director they're going to continue it from the Jericho line to Richmond next year Evan this has been on the books for a really long period of time November 1st well as long as the hot mix plant stays open it gets too cold they can't no longer hot they're trying let's put it that way they could stop hitting gas lines and things like that yes they have heated trucks for that they have some small heated trucks right for hot mix okay anyway sorry we encourage them to complete this phase yeah and they will say if we were more reasonable about the culvert it would have been done last year Touche moving on well I don't believe that was Mr. Tisha's watch though was it the last section deals with things that we do just kind of region wide there you'll see things about our ECOS regional plan and metropolitan transportation plan that was just updated this spring we host a legislative forum December of each year we've been working on the building homes together campaign to build more homes in the region clean water work public health work energy planning has consumed a lot of time over this last year thank you again Irene for all the time you put into that the neighbor rides active transportation we have a transportation survey that's coming out with the results next month and some training and intelligent transportation system so a variety of things that we work on region wide happy to answer any questions on any of those if you have any yes sir there's been a couple of gatherings of folks interested in housing issues housing convening there hasn't been one in a while any knowledge of my staff would say that was my fault for building expectations that couldn't be delivered upon and they would be right thank you that's on the record so we had get together in the spring time and I was kind of hoping we could have one before we really got into summer and of course that didn't happen and we're working on one for this fall so I think we'll end up having probably three a year or so and I think if I recollect I think one of the things that was coming out of the last conversation was a variety of times we're working on trust funds and how are those working so we didn't forget staff was just dealing with some capacity issues about how quickly we can deliver on promises I was making so on that topic with the affordable housing are you looking at all types of housing not just affordable but because you want to have the whole spectrum well represented and available so when we that was kind of a bridge we crossed with the affordable housing partners we focused on that affordable housing market but we kind of got them to say well it's more than that and we're going to have a better chance of getting more of the affordable if the whole market is working better and so that 3,500 number is really the full market with 20% of that hoping to be affordable and so we're not hitting the mark on the affordable numbers but we're doing pretty well overall supply issue which is really in my estimation we're really under supplied in our housing market and so it has dynamics where people have to drive an hour to commute to jobs back in Chittany County because there isn't enough supply of housing here so we're trying to deal with that fundamental part which obviously just basic supply demand we have more supply that helps down price escalation at least and then we can continue to build more so 2016 I think we built over 900 homes in the county 2017 600 something so on average we're exceeding the 700 a year pace the last couple of years I mean the total mix there's a certain ratio that we need right and is that being looked at then to make sure that all those segments you know the and it's hard to either predict or force what exactly happens so I'm sure you have housing developers in town that are as they're replacing their apartment buildings so we're getting a lot more rentals I would say so there's definitely been a shift from maybe like the 90's and early 2000's where it was more single family homes to more multi family so you know I look at I gotta say the housing market supply is kind of rebalancing you know we're getting to smaller housing household sizes and so smaller housing units and Jeff you look at the stuff as much or more than I do so feel free to weigh in so I'm not really looking to say what the developers are actually doing but looking at the like a needs assessment to say to have a healthy community you know you want affordable housing so people can live where they were but there's other levels too that we don't want to necessarily ignore and it would be nice to know what those needs are and then the developers will do what they think is have a role in what Max is called the filtering process and availability across the entire price spectrum is important to a market to function effectively because if you don't have choices for people to move out of their first home into the next level you don't open up the starter homes for the people who are moving and forming households and moving into the beginning and that's something that happens in the recommendation phase when you understand the dynamics of the marketplace but Charlie's right I mean most of the shortage in numbers has happened if you go back to 1980 and look at the number of people that was in every housing unit in our county and you look at the number of people per housing unit in the 2010 census almost the entire shortage is because there's fewer people per unit by a very significant amount not a lot it's like about a half or six tenths of a person but when you spread it across a couple hundred thousand units you're talking real numbers of units and what's happening increasingly is that you have an empty nest couple living in a four-bedroom house we'd love the downsize but you can't find the unit the downsize you can't find the quality that you want so we sit in four-unit houses with two people when it should be dealing with six people yeah and I think you know the part of the when we do the analysis what always comes out is a demand for like smaller single-family homes right I mean those like homes that were built in the 1950s that don't get built anymore small three bedrooms or something something that you could downsize to but they want to be right near the village center and well there's no more space for that right and so we go up you have to go condo instead we have to change our view of the housing unit there's no longer a single-family house with a way for defense the units have to be go up vertically and unless you deal with that we're going to continue to have the issues that we're having and you want them to be around places where we have access to transportation and increasingly you know kids want to have access to decent non-motor car transportation and so far as much as we support CCTA we still are supporting lousy service the other thing that was I think really interesting to me about the fault CCTA there's enough money to go around yeah and it's also you know kind of how dense we are or not dense and the other interesting thing I think around the housing conversation is it was the second issue that was identified by employers that was kind of constraining their hiring you know first was workforce skills and like finding that right employee but then if they did then and sometimes they're often they're importing that worker the worker trying to find a house that made sense to them wasn't happening and so this isn't you know just housing for housing sake it's all wedded together and important to our overall economy and livability and all those transportation all those issues sorry to go on on that it's a very important issue I'm going to answer the other question can we get an update on the dispatcher? you can you didn't vote for it no no no I guess you already knew that yeah we knew that sorry I'm trying to where was that page five excuse me page six that's why it was right at the bottom of page five thank you so we had six of the towns that put it six of the seven that put it on the ballot in s6 it wasn't on the ballot Shelburne's the other town they didn't vote for it because they already have the 9-1-1 answering system in Shelburne so it was a little more controversial there the other six towns are moving ahead and they're I would say kind of methodically working through the issues and so they're in the process now of kind of bringing on a consultant team to help get things rolling one of the challenges of course we got six towns working together this is a good thing and a bad thing no single town is taking charge in a negative way so they're really trying to share the responsibility across the six towns so they're bringing in somebody from the outside to help manage and get it going so that process is underway right now so I would say very much in startup stage yeah I would hope in a few months probably in early 19 there might be some more practical updates of what's happening in progress that's getting made but the range of issues that they're dealing with run the full gamut from the mechanics of the space and the equipment and things like that a big pot of HR issues they've got six unionized workforces to talk about how are they going to rationalize or are they going to come together under a new employer how long would it take to do that and then even just transition issues are we going to do one town two towns start together join a third town and all the operating procedures and things like that because it's not just the dispatcher it's the dispatcher's relationships to all the public safety personnel and some of their policies and procedures may be a little different town to town so we got now it's not really internal it's little external to all those public safety personnel making sure they all get more consistent so multiply it's not just six police departments it's six police departments, six fire departments yeah there's a lot to go through and so I can't remember but they literally have a list I can't remember now if it's if it's 50 items kind of on their checklist things they've got to work through so they're still very early stages honestly so can I is there a lot to go through I can't remember is there any better understanding of the investment that's going to have to be made in technical infrastructure to accomplish this and what the town's shares might be or I do not think we've made any updating of the numbers that we had since the spring so and again I think it was let's get some independent thinking coming from the outside who's kind of neutral doesn't work for any individual town and start working through that work so stay tuned, yeah, no, it's a big hill to climb there what's the item right above that one public health and the opioid crisis yeah so we were serving as the employer of the opioid alliance staff for the first couple years of startup and this should probably say this we transferred that staffing responsibility or staff management responsibility to United Way as a kind of more natural fit for them it didn't end up in the United Way at the beginning because Martha Maxim was the director and she wanted to be involved more actively on the committee and so she didn't want to be both a policy advocate and the manager of the staff and so we were kind of a neutral facilitator to do that so I would think it's we had a new director at the beginning of this calendar year for the opioid alliance and I think the medical center the health department Howard center city of Burlington there's a lot of good the leadership of those the mayor, Bob Bick all those folks are around the table and so I think it's really helped the issues forward over the last couple years and things that have been and pushed things down to the legislature so I think there are some big policy change things that have been moving forward of course the outcomes on the ground in terms of reducing the deaths of things there's a time lag to that but I think there's a lot of reason for optimism kind of getting a better handle on it and even the early discussions really led to Howard center pushing more of a Howard center had the hub and the medical center really worked hard with their primary physicians to get spokes so a lot of their primary physicians are now providing treatment options in primary care settings as opposed to having to go to Howard center treatment facility so I've been pretty optimistic and impressed at how that conversation is going you just started this two or three years ago it was probably maybe three years ago with the initial conversations and staff might have been hired two and a half years ago just gives you an illustration of the wide variety of issues because of probably the lack of county government umbrella that we have in the northeast that we have to start things I mean you wouldn't normally think that organization that dealt with everything transportation funding would handle things like regional dispatch and opioid setting up an implementation piece of the strategy that we have more broadly around the state remember that discussion three years ago because CCRPC still have a seat at the table yeah I'm still at that table with thoughts of transitioning off before too long so I don't know for the opioid alliance I mean I'd be curious is it helpful I mean it's been interesting and I think is Essex participating in the community outreach program with the police officer in a way that kind of grew out of this conversation as I think the town started talking about more mental health issues that their police departments were confronting and how do we work better with Howard Center and it kind of started here which was very opioid focused but then kind of spread to bigger mental health issues also and so I'd be kind of curious as to your reaction should we stay kind of keep a finger in or can I continue I don't know how much Jeff was involved in that or at least we didn't have a it's not a wheelhouse issue for me a rep at the table for us but at least we get to talk to you once a year about it but Andy you can always ask me about something that's happened at the RPC and if I can't answer it I always go to the staff I wouldn't answer a question without talking to the staff anyway on that but you know that's that's just an example of you know Charlie's credit we have trouble saying no when people come to us with need so we do things like regional dispatch so we do something like actually staff up something that's a regional effort because there's really no other place for it to happen right away at least in its infant stages and then we pass it on when we build the bandwagon to everybody to jump on and also at the start of it it was also very clear this was not an RPC program this is a program of the health department Howard Center the medical center and we were just providing some side we just funded separately and we hired additional staff resources we weren't getting distracted from our responsibility as a service providing organization to our member communities but this is something that probably was too big for us to ignore when there was no other place to do it because of the importance to the region and all of our communities I can tell you from our police department's perspective our libraries the work of the Howard Center along with our police departments and other departments has worked out wonderfully the incidents of people being at our facilities that like our library and other the Brinnell library when there is a person who has the need for attention and stuff the Howard Center has really worked well and I don't know how else to say it but it frees up our officers to be doing other things and other instead of working you know being there for a long period of time and maybe even having to arrest this person which they don't want to do and turning it over to Howard Center the people are getting the care and attention they need freeing up our officers and staff to be doing what they were really up to do instead of putting on one care and it is working and we would like to find ways to expand that use along with CJC the Community Restorative Justice Center and those types of things that free us up to do what we need to do and we thank your organization for being a lead in helping sort of just give it a global view and then also figuring out how we can all work together and make it work financially because it doesn't work if we're all independent it just doesn't work this is kind of one of the outcomes of the Ecos plan where we started talking about the web and the need to kind of partner and bring partners to different tables and understand each other's issues and how we can help each other more because nobody can do all the stuff alone and one more thing that Charlie does I'm not sure I don't remember it exactly on your list but he hosts a monthly local manager's lunch and where we talk topics so anything that we have a general topic couple of months or so ago was opioids and the Finland Iceland study and how they addressed drug use and its precursors but also when we wanted to talk whether it was dispatch or other local issues and ask each other more directly what are you working on is there anything and it's great he hosts it and facilitates it too occasionally if we get off topic don't forget you get invited you guys get invited a couple of times a year to participate in our things the legislative thing in our annual meeting and you're more than welcome and should come because they're actually good programs for me anytime or me when is your annual meeting annual meetings usually in June what's the netcode this year that's great I've been to it before and this past June we did it with GBIC which worked out well because they were trying to have theirs the same night anyway so let's do it the same time in the same place so we tried to do something in June and something in December and then we do our legislative breakfast before the session which many of you come to but we discuss topics and it's an opportunity for us all to be together with all of our state perhaps the senators that come any other questions or comments I just want to say thanks to Charlie because I think you've driven this organization I never envisioned when I started I'm not sure if I was driving or just trying not to fall off more value I think to the municipalities that are part of the RPC we wouldn't have moved to merge the two organizations if this wasn't the executive director and it just made so much sense to do that because we were 15 years where we had the MPO over here in its own office space and with the RPC and now we have an organization that has a very robust agenda sometimes I look at what we do and I can't believe that we do it and that's why we have all these proclamations for all of our staffers so thanks so much all you do in your staff it's really everyone working at what you're adding and how you still keep all these balls in the air and move forward so thanks but it really is everybody working together it's the community that's kind of breeding this and we work well with other RPCs as well we're doing a much better job and with ACCDs with our program and the flexibility they give us to some degree with our money we can do some of the things that need to be done and to do that the quality and the amount you do it takes great leadership so thank you for that and a great staff so thanks I appreciate you coming in and talking to Jeff and Irene again thank you both for the work you do for our staff take your job okay we're going to move on to the next item which is 5D and that's the proclamation of Extra Mile Day Greg we've seen this a couple of times I think this is our third time now on our agenda I believe so third time seeing a request to proclaim November 1st as Extra Mile Day it's a request you've gotten in the past couple of years from Extra Mile America it's a non-profit organization that empowers individuals, organizations and cities to go to the Extra Mile and their work is inspired by the belief that going to Extra Mile opens doors to new possibilities last year the question came up I believe Irene asked it about what is the first mile and we actually got a response from Extra Mile America that the first mile is the 5,280 feet that life requires us to walk every day in our jobs Rose's parents, friends, spouses, employees and bosses and chasing after and following through with every one of the 100 plus items on our everyday to-do list the Extra Mile they told us is finding the energy, heart, spirit to add just a little bit of extra in our effort to make someone's life special despite how tired we might be after doing everything else in life we had to do as we walked the first mile and it's going the Extra Mile where we find that we have the power to create the biggest and perhaps the biggest mile for ourselves too so this year there's another proclamation and we've been asked to proclaim Essex to celebrate Extra Mile Day on November 1st we usually ask the clerk to read that sure, be happy to a proclamation whereas the town of Essex, Vermont is a community which acknowledges that special vibrancy exists within the entire community when its individual citizens collectively go the Extra Mile in personal effort, volunteerism and service and whereas the town of Essex is a community which encourages its citizens to maximize their personal contributions to the community by giving of themselves wholeheartedly and with total effort commitment and conviction to their individual ambitions, family, friends and community and whereas the town of Essex is a community which chooses to shine a light on and celebrate individuals and organizations within its community who go the Extra Mile in order to make a difference and lift up fellow members of their community and whereas the town of Essex acknowledges the mission of Extra Mile America to create 550 Extra Mile cities in America and is proud to support Extra Mile Day on November 1st, 2018 now therefore the town of Essex select board does hereby proclaim November 1st, 2018 to be Extra Mile Day the select board urges each individual in the community to take time on this day to not only go the Extra Mile in his or her own life but to also acknowledge all of those who are inspirational in their efforts and commitment to make their organizations, families, community, country or world a better place I wish that the whereas were more of a future tense I don't believe that Essex has arrived yet here on behalf of those who remain invisible in this town despite our passing this resolution each year I'll once again decline to support this resolution there are people here who are disenfranchised unloved, lonely those with ideas that challenge the establishment we're just the ones who hold power here within these institutions we're not there yet I wish we were but we're not so hopefully some of your icons support this to actually do that it is but it also says that we're there in the warehouses and we're not so I will not vote for it because the warehouses to me are not true yet and I hope someday they will be I always thought that aspirational was you'll never get there you just have to keep trying I just wanted to comment that I'm impressed that they had a response and that it was so well written I thank you for asking and my proposed change would just be instead of saying is in each of the warehouses to say strives toward being the community and that's the change that I would propose and that would help me to support it but this is not this is the national one that's here so I think they're if you take it as is or we don't approve it okay so what's the board's play I move that the select board approve a proclamation declaring November 1st 2018 to be extra mile day second can you further discussion about approving the proclamation for the extra mile day hearing none all those in favor signify by saying aye opposed motion passes for one thank you all for that moving on to our last item of business which are the minutes of July four sets first one is of July 18th 2018 do I have a motion for those I would move approval of the minutes of July 18th 2018 thank you Irene okay we'll start with page one I'll second that okay we'll start with page one page two to page three four five okay and that's it all those in favor of the July 18th 2018 minutes as presented signify by saying aye aye opposed hey motion passes five zero thank you Irene I would move that we approve the August 6th 2018 minutes to select board member questions thank you okay do I have a second second thank you okay we'll start with page one as we always do page two and three Andy it starts at line 124 there's a motion but there's no record of the vote five all of us so I suspect it was unanimous that it needs to be five zero I don't recall anybody voting against that ready to remember is that the same it would pass unanimous five oh okay what do we add that okay good anything else on three okay we're going on four just at the tail end of line two of what please I not only talked about this series in seven days but I agreed to distribute to that series I agreed to distribute to that series upon the cost so you want to add and she agreed to distribute a link to that series okay that's the problem with that I'm going to ask her to do that okay and that's it then so all those in favor of the August 6th 2018 select board minutes with corrections signify by saying aye aye motion passes five zero take a motion for August 16 we're going to move approval on the select board minutes of August 16th 2018 the select board number questions thank you Irene and Andy okay page one two, three and four, five three on line 221 I believe there's just some repeated language after the word area it repeats and the current blue discussion area so if we could delete those words I think it would help make it easier to understand do you see that Greg? okay thanks anything else on five page six page seven okay that's the last page so all those in favor of the August 16th 2018 select board minutes with corrections signify by saying aye aye the motion passes five zero I would move that we approve the select board minutes of August 20th 2018 with the select board number questions okay thank you do I have a second Andy? second yes great page one and two page three four good question on line 151 please the next to the last word is abbreviation BFN I'm not sure what that stands for if it's just a type of no probably be a type of BNA okay thank you really needs assessment yes okay anything else on four five all those in favor of the August 20th 2018 select board minutes with corrections signify by saying aye aye zero we're on to item six now which is consent items so I have a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved second moved and seconded okay comments on the warrants three sets of those, big stack no comments those in favor of the consent agenda signify by saying aye five zero anything any comments on the reading file is it comments on the reading file or is it comments in general I don't have any comments on the reading file but I do have some things that would go under 7A board member comments so that would be okay may I two things one is the governance subcommittee I we have a point of order though if Elaine is participating in the governance subcommittee so-called subcommittee as a trustee member should she be the one presenting to the select board on that topic may I answer that may I answer that I was appointed secretary of the committee so in terms of the role of my role on that committee I think it's appropriate that I report what the committee is doing I would struggle with the quorum question so I mean yeah I know but if we're saying in one group in one room that she's not a select board member but in this room on the exact same topic exact same subject the content of the meeting where she's not a select board member we're considering her a select board member now in this meeting reporting to us how can we say that this is not an open meeting violation to have a quorum of select board members in that meeting we're going to have to get our head around this I'm just a big Venn diagram we're going to have to get our head around this the lawyer waiting our subcommittee is a public meeting our subcommittee is a public meeting the public is welcome and has attended and we produce minutes I mean I'm not sure what else we can do but warrant is a select board meeting that's the issue and it won't be because it doesn't need to be so I've had people who are watching on channel 17 call me and tell me that I'm right on well our attorney has weighed in I know I know but I'm tired of having this waste our time we've settled this with the attorney I know you don't like it I'm okay with that but we need to move on I just wanted to give an update on the calendar I'm going to let Elaine finish her update and then Andy we can come to you with whatever thank you Max I just wanted to update the committee that we do do some scheduling conflicts we have not held our second meeting and so we now have all our ducks in a row and I sent out an email today with I believe it was September 19th at four o'clock so assuming Greg and Evan or Greg or Evan can make that that's when our next meeting will be I believe that's what I sent out check your email and I had one other item I wanted to bring up in case that's is it related to it's not related to governance it's something else and I'd like to let Andy have his okay okay so then go ahead Irene had her hand up on the topic did you want to say something yeah I can follow Andy's logic that if a board member is commenting on something when they are also a trustee I think that the comment may have been more appropriate as part of public to be heard I would be more than happy if it would make things a little easier from the framework of understanding to offer any commentary on the governance subcommittee at the public to be heard comment and if it's even helped logo sit in the audience whatever works it's a little ridiculous yeah alright that sounds like a solution where you can I think we can all work with that that's a good idea the other comment I wanted to make was something about channel 17 so I'm not sure if you're aware but when you watch our videos our meetings on channel 17 they use YouTube and one of the reasons why Scott is so adamant about what we do with our microphones is because not only is it for the audience to hear us but YouTube does transcripts complete transcripts of all of our meetings and when you watch them you just click the the three little dots on the bottom of the video and it gives you an open transcript option and then you get the whole transcript of the meeting and you also get you can toggle it by minute markers so I just wanted to let everyone know that there's this transcript of our meetings that exists as well as an audio video audio visual record of our meetings and so we have plenty of supplementation of the work that we do. I thought you'd like to know that. I know I just discovered this myself Any other comments on the read file? Andy? In the same vein of it's not actually a topic in the reading file but the town fair is first week in October and the early bird sign up ends on the 14th of September this week so I just wanted to remind folks that they'd like to go to the town fair and it could save $5 if you sign up this week and I would like to ask to go on Thursday. I'm still not available Wednesday which was the day of the annual meeting Mike are you still available for that meeting but I would like to attend on Thursday there are a couple of sessions that I would very much like to attend so can I ask so you need to be signed up and you need to be signed up? Yeah. Sorry the annual meeting is free he doesn't have to pay to attend the annual meeting but if he wants to attend any of the other sessions that day or the next day okay I think I'm already signed up I saw that email anybody else? I'm out of town otherwise I wouldn't miss it for the world the day after tomorrow I know this is the one that's in south Burlington it's October 3rd it's usually not up this far north what date is it? October 3rd and 4th the 3rd is the annual meeting but is this the early bird thing expires this week? if we say $5 ask Travis to sign me up for Thursday that's what I should do do you have to ask Travis or can you stop take care of it consider it done okay Mike so you need to clarify whether you want to sign up for one day or both days just the 3rd please Wednesday only and your Thursday only well and your both days I believe so but I have to get back to you I'll be there for both days I'll be there for both days okay anything else on reading so I just wanted to bring your attention to the actual dates of the housing conference because I'm not sure they were contained in Andrew Brown's message so it is November 13th and 14th alright anything else no executive session required okay so I would entertain a motion to adjourn thank you Mike for the discussion about the journey hearing none all those in favor signify to say no thank you all