 Okay, we're back. We're live here on Think Tech. It's, gee, it's 12 o'clock on a given Monday. And as we'd love to do, we have Meena, Marco and me on energy on Monday every other week. And this time we have a special guest. And I'm going to let Marco introduce her. Marco Mangelsdorf, Provision Solar in Hilo, say hi. Well, very kind of you, Jay. Hi, hi, hi. And, yeah, so it's my great pleasure to introduce Jenny Potter, who is a PUC commissioner and waiting, who I've been very pleased to agree to be on the show with us today, Jay. And it's a great pleasure to to have Jenny on the show. And again, I want to congratulate you, Jenny, for for becoming or soon to become the next public utilities commissioner for the wonderful Aloha State. I have very great expectations, high hopes and 100 percent, 101 percent confidence that you're going to do an absolutely fantastic job. So thank you very much for being on the show with us today. Hi, Jenny. Thank you for appearing. You're appearing by by Zoom and VoIP from Maui. And you look terrific. And we really appreciate being here. And I said before the show began, be ready. You are ready to step into history now, because this is a time when all the vectors are coming together. This is a big historical intersection for energy in Hawaii. Welcome. Been nominated, confirmed as the new commissioner. And at such a time in history for Hawaii and and where we're moving forward to the next six years, it's going to be incredibly exciting, challenging. And it's an honor to be on the show. So thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you, Jenny. We want to talk about, you know, your views of things and your interests and aspirations. But before we do that, I'd like to ask Marco how things are in Hilo, because there have been a lot of news events in Hilo. And I'd like to get on the scene report from him. Marco. Take away a little bit from a female band years ago called the Bengals. It's just another lava manic Monday here. I mean, you know, we had the trifecta last week of earthquakes, a lava flow and noxious gases. The earthquakes have subsided over the past several days. We had a 6.9, which shook a lot of people up and I think was felt and on Wahoo as well. The earthquakes have subsided, but the lava is continuing to flow out. And my heart really goes out to those dozens of people who have already lost their homes and had their land, their property probably, at least in their lifetimes, permanently destroyed, essentially made unusable by lava that has covered their property. Hundreds and hundreds, if not more, who have sought shelter at various locations in Puna. And just the great uncertainty of what comes next, how far the lava is going to flow, where it's going to flow. And one of the concerns has been Puna geothermal venture, which is a geothermal plant in that neighborhood that has been operating for 25 years now. And that plant has been evacuated as of last week. And Helco is compensating by bringing another generation online. Helco purchases somewhere around 35, 38 megawatts constant from that plant, which is not inconsequential in terms of the total demand for power on this island. And one of the looming concerns is that there are tens of thousands of gallons of stored pentane, which is somewhat of a byproduct from the geothermal process, stored in tanks there, which is flammable. And there are containers, I understand, on the way to take that pentane away, but that's going to take time. So hopefully Madam Pale will allow for a safe removal of that flammable gas. But, you know, bottom line, a lot of people are on edge here, especially those closer to the volcanic flows and eruptions. Yeah, we haven't had this kind of thing before. This is really special. And wow, geothermal, you know, you always knew that geothermal is subject to seismic disruptions. And here we have a perfect example of it. Well, Marco, can you go further than introduce Jenny now? Can you ask her to define her views and her expectations in the job coming up on June 30? No, I'd be happy to. I guess my first question to you, Jenny, to kind of set the background, is what brought you to Hawaii, when you decided to move out here? I believe you told me in previous communications has been in what several years or so since you've been here. So I think people would appreciate kind of knowing your story in terms of what brought you out here. It's kind of, I guess, I'm a single mom. I have a beautiful 19-year-old daughter, and we were living in a community in Antelope, California, which is right outside of Sacramento. So it's a bedroom community. And, you know, it had been really, it had gone through a tremendous overhaul because of the housing crisis. And so my once beautiful neighborhood that becomes very, very shattered with crime. And it was, you know, we were really scared. And honestly, I didn't know how scared we were until I moved to Hawaii and found peace and, you know, serenity. But basically, one night, we, you know, the helicopters were deployed over home and they were shouting things. And we knew someone was running amok in our neighborhood. And I was with my daughter about two in the morning and said, hey, wouldn't it just be great to get out of here and just do it, mom? Let's just go. And so I said, where do you want to go? And she said, Hawaii. Of course, where else? And then I said, you know, I know someone in Hawaii. I'll give them a call and let's get out of here. And so I bought it to get, I bought two tickets for three weeks out from that date. And we sold everything that we had and for my house on the market, including, you know, sold my cars and everything. And we were gone. So it was really an issue of just being fearful of how the mainland has been changing and the things that were happening there and kind and looking for a place where there was a law and safety and security for my daughter, who at the time was 15. You know, and so she, so yeah, it was important for me and for her to find a place where, which was safe and had a sense of community, which was clearly gone from Sacramento at the time. And we found exactly that. I mean, my neighborhood, we eat Thanksgiving meals together and Christmas meals and, you know, with my neighbors and it's a beautiful place and we've found nothing but great opportunity and much a law in our new life here. And so it's the best decision I ever made. Four years stood right down the causeway to the west of Sacramento and the People's Republic of Davis University, California, Davis, where I got my PhD. So I, I too, you know, found a home here in Hawaii 18 years ago now. And it's, you know, I can't think, I really don't think of moving anywhere else or living anywhere else. What is it that brought you to object matter as a field and in particular, the whole regulatory end of things? Kind of what's your, what's your, your path, what's been your path to energy and the regulatory field? For most, you know, I went to school, I got my master's in public policy and management. And I did that not, I didn't get an MBA. I got a public policy because I, I, I knew I wanted to be a public servant. So that meant, you know, working for not for profits and for governmental agencies, but that was certainly what I wanted to do. My parents were public servants. And it just, I just appreciated the fact that there was, there's a lot of opportunity to really affect society and, you know, and make an impact in that area that you, you can't really make perhaps in the private sector and not in the same way. Exactly. So I, energy was always of interest. In fact, I remember taking a class in the energy and grabbed to a school and it was pertaining to depositing nuclear waste in Yucca Mountain. And that certainly started me thinking down the line of where I wanted to go. And I ultimately, I got a position as a small public utility, you know, a municipal utility in the city of Roosevelt was in Sacramento. And ultimately, you know, I really, I was doing a great deal of energy, like low profile analysis, customer specific research. And then I moved to where I started working more directly with demand response energy efficiency. And then ultimately, the smart pricing options pilot, which was, you know, one of the largest pricing pilots done and certainly has been recognized as the most credible and groundbreaking in terms of what it was able to reveal about using time based rates in order to affect change in how customers use energy. And so that, that immediately led me to working with the Department of Energy and the California Public Utilities Commission. And so at that point, I started working with some of these larger regulatory entities and in trying to establish and identify opportunities for the regulatory environment to affect change using raised or demand response. And then ultimately, at the lab after I moved from mud into Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, we worked on the demand response potential study for the California Public Utilities Commission. And so it really was during that time and at my time at the lab that I really got the vision for being a commissioner. And I was like, how I remember googling, like, how does one become a commissioner, you know, which seems like a silly thing to do, but it's a great question. How did we get there? And I would find that it was publicly appointed and, you know, had to be appointed by the governor and I was like, wow, I don't know how that's going to happen anytime soon. So, you know, I kind of just put it on the back burner, but definitely set it for myself that somehow I'm going to become a commissioner within, you know, at some point in my career. And so I think really having the ability to do these kinds of studies that were so that really did impact how policy was made in particular in California. California, as you know, is moving to time abuse rates for its residential customers. And really the smart pricing options study that we did this month is hugely responsible for that. It had a big, big influence on how the utilities and how the commission perceived time-based rates and being able to move customers by defaulting them, putting them on these rates, like you could see it voluntarily, but just really changing the rate structure in a way that would hopefully incentivize them to change their behavior to better match some of the needs on the grid. And then furthermore, the demand response potential study also has affected the commission to evaluate different types of demand response programs that are more like responsive demand. So instead of looking at how we can, you know, like capacity-based curtailment of load on the grid, now we're talking about how we can actually match demand on the customer side behind the meter to what's needed on the grid in order to provide resiliency and stability. And so that actually has also moved policy forward. And so those were both very, very encouraging to me to see, you know, that we can take research and we can actually expand, you know, and use it in the regulatory environment. And I hope very much that, you know, as I move into the role of commissioner that will continue to look at these kinds of studies, these technical and evaluate these facts and the information that we get from so many of these great organizations such as Hawaii Natural Energy Institute and Lawrence Berkeley National Lab and even other utilities that have been implementing programs that have been so successful and really changing how we use energy behind the meter and not just focus so much on supply. Jenny, you spent some time at HNEI. Can you tell us what you did there? What you learned there and how that has prepared you for being a commissioner now? Yeah, absolutely. So I haven't, and it's really unfortunate because I've enjoyed my time at HNEI. So it's a bittersweet, you know, nomination in regards to there's some of the projects that I've started. I won't be able to finish. There's one in particular that I probably will be able to finish and that's the Pathways to an Open Grid project. It's actually an elemental accelerator project and it's also supported by HNEI. And it looks at evaluating the grid in Oahu in particular, but it could be expanded to all of the islands in a way that uses open source data, so data that we can find readily upon, you know, from either the federal government through FERC filings or EIA as well as, you know, Google and building information and census information as well as low profiles from solar and outputs to actually evaluate the locational net benefits of given resources at locations throughout Oahu. So understanding that that there is there's a distinction between the value of a perhaps like a DER or a distributed energy resource in one part of Oahu versus another. And the value of that is probably different because of one, how how energy is delivered to those sites or the constraints on the distribution system at both sites. And then also at Oahu from transmission, there's a whole host of other components such as energy efficiency that could have more value in one area of Oahu versus another. And so looking at that type of project from a viewpoint of a commissioner, it's really valuable to understand the types of tools that are at our disposal to to basically further our understanding of what kinds of programs and what kinds of incentives and rates that we should be developing that are sensitive to temporal and locational attributes of energy delivery and how we can develop those types of programs that are behind the meter to better develop to match those supplies by where we see, you know, distinctions in the grid throughout the day and throughout, you know, throughout basically locations throughout Oahu. So yeah, and there's another project that working on, which is the virtual power plant project and that's on Kira Maui and that uses batteries that are cited at NICO and also at Haleakala Solar and they're tied into solar panels at Haleakala Solar. And the idea is to use those batteries from those different locations to actually provide grid services or to optimize the energy used behind the meter at each of those locations. And in doing that in a way that we're aggregating distributive resources to really identify opportunities for dispatching those in a way that is really constructive for the grid. Thank you, Jenny. We're going to take a short break. That's Shen from Potter, recently confirmed PUC commissioner. And we have Marco Mangelsdorf from Provision Solar. This is me and Marco and me on Mondays. I'm Jay Fidel. We love energy and we'll be right back after this one minute. We're going to, we're going to discuss exactly what her vision is going forward in history and at the PUC. We'll be right back. Hello, I'm Dave Stevens, host of the Cyber Underground. This is where we discuss everything that relates to computers that's just going to scare you out of your mind. So come join us every week here on ThinkTechHawaii.com 1pm on Friday afternoons. And then you can go see all our episodes on YouTube. Just look up the Cyber Underground on YouTube. All our shows will show up and please follow us. We're always giving you current relevant information to protect you. Keeping you safe. Aloha. Hey, Aloha, Stan Energyman here on Think Tech Hawaii where community matters. This is the place to come to think about all things energy. We talk about energy for the grid, energy for vehicles, energy and transportation, energy and maritime, energy and aviation. We have all kinds of things on our show, but we always focus on hydrogen here in Hawaii because it's my favorite thing. That's what I like to do. But we talk about things that make a difference here in Hawaii, things that should be a big changer for Hawaii. And we hope that you'll join us every Friday at noon on Stan Energyman and take a look with us at new technologies and new thoughts on how we can get clean and green in Hawaii. Aloha. Okay, we're back. We're live. And me and Marco and me and Marco Mangostore joins us from Provision Solar in Hilo, the land of eruption, may I say. And we have Jennifer Potter. She's a new PUC commissioner just confirmed. She will take office on June 30th when Lorena Keeves term expires and we are looking forward to seeing her do her thing there in the PUC. So I was going to suggest to Marco that this part of the show we should ask Jennifer, her views in general and how she intends to, what role she intends to play on the commission and the development of energy in Hawaii in general. And just posing maybe another question or two to Jenny regarding the process, which I find it fascinating that you've wanted to become a commissioner for some time now, Jenny. That's a little bit of a surprise. And yet it's a good surprise because it confirms to me that sometimes putting it out there to the universe, so to speak, without getting too much Ram Dass or Erie Ferry, you envision what you want to do, how you want your life to proceed. And sometimes, of course, it doesn't work out that way, but sometimes it does. I think it's great that you wanted to become a commissioner for some time. And my questions to you are kind of two-fold. One, how did you come to the attention of Governor David E. Gay? I don't imagine that you camped out there on the fourth floor of the Capitol building, you know, wanting to catch his eye as he walked by. So first part of my question is, how did you come to the attention of David E. Gay and his staff? And what was the process like for you from when you got contacted by the Governor, one of his staff members, to actually getting Senate confirmation several months later? I'm just kind of, would be very interested to hear how that experience went for you. Yeah, I'd be happy to speak to that. It was an amazing process. And like you said, it was probably one of those things where I did put it out to the universe when it kind of came to me. I was shocked and very surprised when I was approached. And so I actually was on vacation. Here's the funny part. So I was on vacation in Kauai, and there was a POD meeting, which is the pathway to an open grid. And I had, you know, prepared some analysis and done some data work. And I felt that it was important for me to be there. So I flew away from my Kauai vacation and ended up in Honolulu to present at the POD conference. And so it's a stakeholder meeting, not necessarily a conference. So while I'm at the conference, you know, apparently I caught some attention. And while I was presenting some of the results of my analysis, and so I get a phone call a few days later about setting up a lunch with a gentleman from Sunrun who I had never met before. But apparently, he said, you know, there's quite a few of us that have taken note of you and are very interested in, and, you know, he had actually asked if I have any political aspirations in my career. And I said, yeah, I'd like to be commissioner sometime. And he said, I'm very happy to hear you say that because there's quite a number of us, you know, from different entities and organizations that have taken note of you and that are very interested in putting your name forward to the governor. And so I am from my understanding is that the groups, the different entities, and probably Hawaii Solar Energy Alliance and Sunrun and different groups, including Sierra Club, for my understanding, went to see Jay Griffin and proposed to Jay that perhaps he ought to consider me as nominee and put my name in front of the governor. And so Randy and Jay apparently decided to do so. So I got a call from the governor's office and asked for me to come and conduct some interviews over the course of the day and do that in fairly quick frame. So I was, you know, I was over there shortly after all of this went down. And it took maybe a month, I mean, the whole process, maybe six weeks. I spent a lot of the time. I met with the governor for a very, very brief. It was maybe a 40 minute conversation. And then I spent a great deal of time with his staff and then was called back by Governor E. Gay about a week later and said that he selected me as the he's appointing me as commissioner and that prepare for the confirmation process and going through that. So I worked with his staff very closely. They were wonderful. And this was Lisa Harioca and Ford and several others that and Lynette from from all from the governor's office to who guided me through the process of basically campaigning. And that's really what it felt like is, you know, and it was in a way, I needed to meet with every senator and and hopefully sit down with every senator, at least touch base with their staff and, you know, make myself available. So for several weeks, I came back and forth from Maui to Honolulu to meet with the different senators and that process it takes a little while. And it was, you know, I think about 80 hours of interviews all together by the time I was done. I met with other stakeholders, of course, as well, and, you know, including Solar Alliance and Blue Planet and and just making myself getting my, you know, available to these to these different groups and letting them meet me so that they could have some some confidence and and, you know, who they were going to be working with in the future if I was confirmed and then in the case of senators, you know, hopefully winning over their confidence and that I would be an appropriate candidate to fulfill this responsibility for the next six years. So and obviously that was very successful. The committee hearing with Senator Rob Baker was very positive. I believe I had about 59 pages of support from people who submitted testimony and it was really, really an amazing experience, you know, to have that much support come out for me and people that actually made themselves available for the actual committee hearing and came in support. That that was wonderful. I mean, I was so honored. And then to have the whole Senate floor take be voted in unanimously, you know, shortly thereafter, less than a week later was just a confirmation of how how great, you know, people have been in supporting me in that testimony that they provided that really did win over the confidence of the senators. So so it took a village, I think, a lot of work on my part. But, you know, that's that's how we get things done, right? If I could ask just a quick follow up, Ginny, that if you could scroll back to that phone you were offered, how did you feel at that moment in time? What came up? I was I actually started crying when I got on the phone with tears of happiness. Of course, it's like, I can't believe this is happening. You know, this is this is just such an honor. And of course, you know, talking to the governor was kind of like the governor just called me. This is really happening. So, you know, I think I guess I sum it up, I'm pretty humble. So all of this has been just really an honor. And a lot of just this is really happening. You know, I know that there's a lot of expectation, high expectations of me and I plan to fulfill all of those. But, you know, the whole process along the way and the fact that this is a reality, it's really been it's been amazing. And so and a tremendous amount of joy for me and in fulfilling this what has been, you know, kind of an end goal for my career and to have achieved it so early in my career is remarkable. And I'm not taking that for granted at all. Well, another question and a lovely answer. Thank you so much for letting us in on that, Jenny. I guess my question about about your views and your expectations for service on the PUC will have to wait until our until our behind the scenes, you know, segment, which will take place after this show. But for now, I wonder if I could get Marco to tell us his reaction to your appointment and what he sees going forward for you. Well, I thought I thought then Jay, and I think now that still that it was a home run that I'm very excited to see, perhaps for the first time in history of this commission, that there will be two people, Jenny and Dr. Jay Griffin, who I also think very highly of, along with Randy Wasse, but two who have a very deep background in the wonky nature. And I don't use that as a pejorative at all, the wonky nature of utilities, electric utilities and regulation. Because many times in the past, there have been lawyers and I have nothing against lawyers. I mean, you're a good friend of mine, Jay, and you're a lawyer. So I hope that I certainly don't hold that against you. Thank you for that, Marco. You're welcome. Given the different environment that we have now compared to five little on 10, 15, 20 years ago, in terms of how the world, how the earth has moved regarding utilities and distribution, transmission, distributed generation, that to have people like Jenny and Jay there, I think is just fantastic. Fantastic. We've been official for the state of Hawaii and I really expect great things from the three of you. And I think, you know, we've, I feel unsatiated to say the least at this point that we've only just kind of barely scratched the surface. And I'm hoping that we can have Jenny back either in two weeks or in four weeks, because I think there's so much more interesting stuff that we can discuss. So I am taking a liberty, Jay, of extending the invitation for Jenny to come back and talk to us. I join with you, Marco. I hope you come back soon. Thank you. Okay. We're going to say farewell. Thank you so much, Jenny, for coming on the show. We look forward to having you again. And again, Marco, thank you so much for being on the show, as always. We'll say farewell, but in a few minutes, we're going to, right after the closing credits, we're going to continue our discussion behind the scenes. And so be able to find out. Finally, the answer to my question will be right back.