 Let me know when you start talking Dave. You will he'll start telling us and then we'll hear him and then we'll be like Yeah, that's um while we're waiting. I have an important update in my neighborhood. Oh, yeah. What's that? You know the house trailer situation Oh, yeah, right the trailer is gone People who live in the trailer and then we're running power into the house. So is there anyone in the house left? I don't know the house still looks as abandoned as it always did We went to a different microphone, okay, but this is fine. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, let me get this one Just to make sure you got the right one. Oh You might not have that Mike. Yeah, no, it sounds like your room again Sounds better than he did before on the room Now we can't hear you. No, no, no, is there a volume control on that Mike in the How many engineers did it take We got a David No talking Amos So we're about We're about ready to do daily tech news show Amos and Roger are you guys good? I Had to find the mp3 version of the theme song and then it'll be good. Okay. Amos. I don't think we've met before. Hello No, we have not Amos is our official intern now. Yes. Oh And well hello Amos and I'm sorry the other person on online who I've never met before Sarah, you know Sarah Yeah, I know Are you doing man is Castillo is Brian brushwood's producer who's helping us out here in the office duty. Hi. I'm great I know Brian There is We do not have a if not I can run it. That's cool. I just need that one. I got the rest of me Just won't load the AI file. I Have it I have it. Okay. Well, you played that one. I'll play the rest. All right Okay, so it's good. And I have time Justin's gonna read line three. I will Better than anybody ever has in their life. That's right. Okay. Let me let me make sure the sound works real quick really low Yeah, I didn't hear it. It's funny. Those sounds are such triggers where I'm like, yeah, we're midway through the show right I hear it very very softly pump it up. Yeah. Yeah pump up the jams Well, yeah, I got it. It's cool I'm just gonna lock on you guys because when I play sound it on it really cuts to me. So it's gonna be you guys so Let me know when you guys start I'm ready Hold on David tell us when you're ready. Oh, I'm ready. Can you hear me? Okay? Yeah, we can Price I think it's gonna start on me because I have to read the pre thing. Okay Count us in Roger Roger's talking at start three two Colleen Emory has supported independent tech news directly for five years be like Colleen Become a DTNs member at patreon.com slash DTNs And from studio feline, I'm Sarah Lane From next to the shores of Tom Merritt. I'm Justin Robert Young and I'm the show's producer Roger Chang and Y'all doing also behind the scenes Bryce Castillo from the Brian brushwood studios helping us out Amos our intern helping us out and very happy to have with us as a guest David spark producer and host for the CISO series David welcome back great to be here. We're gonna get David's download on the RSA conference You've been having some fun talking security with folks all week. Yes. It's been a good time I I'm trying to think I have done this sort of yearly check with you on RSA for many years I think I did it when you were over at twit, too. We've done this a long time It's definitely three years running in a row and yeah, probably a total of I don't know five six seven I've been doing RSA. This was my tenth year. So it's been a while crazy. Yeah Well, we're gonna get to all of that, but let's start with a few tech things you should know The joint healthcare venture between Amazon Berkshire Hathaway and JP Morgan will be called Haven the three companies announced the venture back in January of 2018 and named doctor at tool go one day as CEO last June Haven will work with existing care providers and focus on helping employees of Amazon Berkshire Hathaway and JP Morgan navigate the health care process Microsoft beat its big cloud provider competitors to opening a data center in South Africa Huawei is coming in later this year in Amazon scheduled for 2020 facilities in Cape Town and Johannesburg offer Azure services and office 365 hosting will arrive in q3 with Dynamics 365 following in q4 say goodbye to those high ping time South African gamers Also are technically notes that Microsoft is investing in a fiber network reaching Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa and soon Angola nice Nintendo announced new products in its cardboard Labo line the Labo VR kiss will cost you 80 bucks has six different kits including just a plain old VR Cardboard goggle or the goggles with extensions like a blaster a camera a bird an elephant and a foot-operated Windpedal I probably for driving sailing. I don't know a basic kit for 40 bucks Has just the goggles in the blaster and there are two expansion sets for 20 bucks each that have the camera and the elephant And one and the bird and the wind pedal in another all those new VR kit variations will be available on April 12 All right yesterday. We talked about the declining popularity of Facebook as a brand and then pretty much as you were talking about it, Sarah Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg told us what he thinks is the future of his brand indeed He did Tom Zuckerberg made a post on Facebook Wednesday titled quote a privacy focused vision for social networking Unquote and it he emphasized Facebook's commitment to becoming a privacy focused platform around the following principles Private interactions end-to-end encryption inducing permanence safety interpret interpretability and Secure data storage Zuckerberg said over the next few years We plan to rebuild more of our services around these ideas the interpretability section notes that Facebook wants to let users opt into the ability to send messages across Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram and Expand to include RCS on its Android apps message you're can currently do SMS on Android it's your Florida accent Interoperability interoperability. Yeah, because it's all basically I agree with Molly Wood who wrote this column for a wire that this Is all about saying our business in the future will be messaging So there are two things that I hear I do hear that But here's and this might be maybe a little bit conspiratorial Justin Privacy very often means payment. It is a cut above the secure Transmission the secure keeping of your data VPNs. These are all paid for services what I think might be an interesting pivot is if this really gets them to the idea of Facebook wants consumer services They want to be in the business of interacting with people and having revenue streams that aren't just carving up every element of your life and Selling those cuts of meat to advertisers who want the demographics that you are offering to them if that is a possibility I think it is a value add that Facebook can feel good about offering to people and I think Consumers might enjoy because privacy is more of a focus these days Some of this we've already heard about Facebook for business group pages for example Facebook had announced that recently over the last couple of months that The company would allow a group manager to be able to respond to some post on that group From Instagram for example or WhatsApp and that would be seamless for the person who had originally asked the question and they wouldn't know So some of so some of that is is kind of like okay Well Zuckerberg is maybe just restating something that perhaps Most of the general public doesn't yet know and they want to make sure they spin it as you know Zuckerberg's plan for the for the future, but I wonder I don't know I mean what happens to the news feed when everything is supposed to be Personal messaging back and forth to one another what happens to me being able to I don't know Look at a page of somebody who wasn't my friend and and how does that change because that's the Facebook that I know Literally nothing happens to that cuz I didn't mention them once no night guys also that is their entire business Their entire business is you doing things in public and them selling Advertisers access to you so that never changes what they want is Another revenue stream not to replace the revenue stream that they have David I'm curious after spending a week with security folks. So how this story strikes you Well, I would just say probably the big thing is encryption I think that's probably the big story for the people back there and I would just say on the personal element the other thing that Zuckerberg said was the reducing permanent element of it. I mean everything you guys have said is I'm I'm on board with with regards to their business and revenue But the he had mentioned encryption before what's unclear though on encryption because it's default with WhatsApp Will it now become default for all the other messaging because I got the sense early on that it wasn't default And as we have also discovered While they say you can control your privacy most people don't yeah He said he he says in this post that end-to-end encryption is really important He'd love to do him on messenger and Instagram just like on WhatsApp But gosh, it's real hard and they'll try their best dog gone it to do that He didn't promise it on on either one of those So I think that's that's important to note Also, he spent a whole thing talking about privacy and and his his big feature ad was and will allow you to share your Messages more across platforms One major issue though is let's say that you are the biggest privacy You know concerning person and you have controlled all the elements. You've shut down all privacy elements Maybe you've completely removed yourself from Facebook or I only have a limited aspect That doesn't necessarily matter because of all of your friends and family don't care about your privacy Triangulated regardless. Yeah, I mean The other issue this is not about people who care about privacy now This is about all the people that are learning about the fact that they might care about privacy in the next 10 years. Yeah Google is expanding its duplex AI based appointment Reservation assistant from a limited test in four cities to pixel three owners that want it in 43 US states It will work with any restaurant that takes rest reservations But doesn't have an online booking option Just yet the service will rule out to users on other Android devices as well as iOS in the coming weeks So this is exciting. This is duplex hitting the big time, right? Like you a lot of people including iOS people are going to be able to do you test What's that have any of you tested duplex yet? I have not had the pleasure. I have not no no have you I Haven't but I've had like Then let me take it a step back. Have you and had an experience with an AI assistant Some you know some type of artificial sort of communication assistant You know a chatbot of some sort that you actually enjoyed the experience and it was valuable I can tell you person for my experience I had one with lift where I was trying to get a five dollar credit back for For a missed ride and it worked beautifully. Okay. Yeah I had an experience with a sonos Facebook messenger bot and it did not work. Well, it did not work well Yeah, no promise here is that duplex. Well, you won't interact with it at all You'll just tell it I want you to do this and it'll go make the phone call for you come back and say yeah, book your appointment If you watch the video that they created and you know, who knows if it works It still has to have some AI chatbot like capabilities like when they're talking to the Yeah, but not to you. So unless you're the 15 year old girl working at the host's stand at the Italian restaurant You want a reservation for she's the one that's gonna have to deal with it We'll see whether or not it works We'll see if it's to me one of those things that could have a little bit of a Google backlash It did it already did it had its backlash last year and I owe in the tech press So we'll see whether we get a second wave. We're not it would be the mainstream press Yeah, calling non tech people and it's the rise of the robot reservation. We have some New York That doesn't undercut your point anyway Huawei filed a complaint in US Federal Court Wednesday challenging the Constitutionality of section 899 of the National Defense Authorization Act that section Bans the use of Huawei and ZTE technology by US government contractors on the basis of national security Huawei claims there's no evidence out there that its products pose a security threat and therefore Huawei claims this constitutes what is called a bill of attainder a Bill of attainder is an act of legislation that targets a person or group to punish them without trial So if I were to pass a bill saying just in committed murder and he's going to jail for life. That's the law That's a legislation, but I never put him on trial for it. That would be a bill of attainder That is specifically forbidden Billes of attainder are specifically forbidden in the Constitution of the United States in two places Article 1 section 9 for federal an article 1 section 10 which says states can't even do this We're not letting anybody do it similarly targeted Kaspersky labs has filed a similar suit about their targeting saying hey That's a essentially a bill of attainder. They have not had any success in convincing a court of that yet No other country has yet banned Huawei equipment Britain's National Cyber Security Center last reviewed Huawei equipment in July and found a low risk Shortcomings saying this is not the kind of thing we deem as a hostile act So there isn't a lot of evidence out there that Huawei is actually damaging. It's all about the potential to do it Yeah documents released by Edward Snowden in 2013 showed that the US planted surveillance beacons and Cisco routers Which have since been banned by the use of Chinese Government authorities So the opposite has happened with China I would doubt that Huawei is going to win this but if nothing else it shows the Huawei wants to fight back Well, and obviously it has become personal with the the the detaining in Canada and Look, this has been a fight and this will continue to be a fight politically and In terms of how we look at this technically when you talk about building out a 5g backbone Which is really what this is all about the issue isn't are you buying malware for cheap? It's Will China Be able to resist if they have a backdoor that could be exploited right and would they be able to make Huawei do it? That's the other question. Yeah, which in in terms of companies that big in China At least the reputation is that that is something that is more understood than it would be in America and uh, you know, it's You know, the one issue is that it doesn't have to be a technological risk It is something where they could use it in a geopolitical Diplomatic sense where oh, hey suddenly, you know, you do something we don't like we can just suggest to Huawei Maybe just throw it back on your service because it's one of the things that's implemented in a national Intelligence law that China passed about four years ago that corporations are compelled to help The national government and intelligence interests now all of that said the security researchers that I've read Generally say we don't think they really have the capability to do this in in current In their current equipment and current software. I'm curious David Your dealings with security professionals what your impression is with with regard to Huawei deal is that Uh, you know, I think they're they always have concerns actually on everybody's kind of chips for that matter Just Huawei to tell the honest truth and they're chronically finding, uh, hacks and issues And this is why you have uh, pen tests and you have hacker challenges for that matter to find problems So I don't know if Huawei is unique to tell you the honest truth Yeah You know the government going after them for that matter That's kind of the sense that I get too I'll take really sad stories for 100. Oh, yeah 78 year old Jeopardy host Alex Trebek posted a video on youtube Wednesday to announce He had been diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. He said quote I wanted to prevent you from reading or hearing some overblown or inaccurate reports regarding my health Therefore, I wanted to be the one to pass along this information and quote. What is get well soon. Yeah definitely that A lot of folks are reporting this Under the headline that you know, Alex Trebek circumvents the media reaches out straight to his audience through youtube Uh, but you know, they've they've actually had a fairly rich social media presence for the last uh, a couple years I think that the you know Jeopardy in general has realized that they are a cultural institution Alex Trebek is somebody that is looked at very very fondly and In this modern era where we find out more and more of our heroes are very flawed I'll say mildly the ones that are good and decent people are people that we tend to celebrate online So i'm glad that he made this connection with his audience people that are passionately Jeopardy viewers or quiz fans in general and uh, uh, it is it is sad But but 78 years old on television, man, that guy still was a three years left on his contract Yeah, so crushing it Yeah, it's funny I was watching some local news in Los Angeles yesterday because sometimes I do that in the evenings when I want to feel better about myself but The the big story of course because obviously Jeopardy is is is shot here in the in the city is that you know, alex trebek and they're Interviewing doctors who have ideas about whether or not he can beat this and and at no point did anybody mention Oh, and this was a youtube post and isn't that kind of interesting and he he he had a uh A genius way to circumvent uh, this sort of media frenzy It was the media frenzy that happened anyway, uh to the point where I was like, oh, it's on the set Which was yeah, but I didn't realize it was a youtube video at all. Nobody ever mentioned that It's almost as if the local channels don't want you to use youtube Right exactly or don't really do that. I'm sure they plug their youtube Maybe maybe Let's face it something a little happier. Uh, we we wish alex trebek the best of health and hope he beats this Absolutely microsoft is open sourcing windows calculator Aka calc dot exe You know what you love it. Well, you might love it But you definitely know it with source code available on github today under the mit permissive license Which includes the build system unit tests and the product roadmap for the calculator feature in windows You know, you might recall that microsoft previously open sourced the original file manager to let it run on windows 10 And recently made 60 000 patents open source to help protect linux So this isn't necessarily something that microsoft hasn't already said that it wants to do But a lot of people were surprised and delighted by the calculator going open source I mean, it's just it's microsoft dancing on steve balmer's la clippers gear lined grave as they continue to Embrace linux and open source like you know what we'll just open source calculator too. Why not? Good for them. I'm glad Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Don't forget to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com All right, let's talk rsa david spark You've got a great roundup of of some of the biggest stories that came out of the conference I'm gonna say biggest stories that I was related to because that conference isn't huge. There's no way I can see them all No, that's a fair point. Yeah, we are not going to comprehensively tell you everything that happened You've got some great stuff here. Uh, what do we want to start with? Well, I would say that the biggest story and it just so happens that we and interviewed the the co-founder on our podcast on this week is um The fact that google chronicle Uh, or google's company chronicle is part of the google ventures. They released a protocol backstory Which is one of these log management programs. It does security information and event management better known as sim and What is unique about them? And so they essentially collect, you know, your company data and anything that you want to gather What is unique about them is they're going to collect all the data all the data you want to collect that is Which is different than all other sort of competitive sims that Charge you about the by the amount of data that you collect and as a result um, you don't collect all of it or you start dumping it over time and so they're actually The chronicle backstory or chronicle the company chronicle the product is backstory They're going to charge by the number of users within your company. It's not exactly clear. So if you have a hundred employees I guess you sign up you register for a hundred Uh users and it will collect everything and they claim that they're going to have better results In analyzing your log data because they're going to have petabytes of information now the When this news came out and it was kind of huge uh at rsa um Rapid seven splunk and ibm stock dropped Precipitously as a result Significant drops all three could be a coincidence, but when all three that are in the same space drop you figure it has to be Alphabet's chronicle, right? Like this is now. This is one of those alphabet companies. Yeah, it's actually an alphabet kind of good Yeah, yeah, I always forget to say it like that. Yes. It is alphabet and it's I always try to make a point of pointing that out when it's important like this because A lot of times we think well alphabet. It's really just google and they haven't had Any of the alphabet other companies and there are dozens of them now Really take a leap forward. This is the kind of thing that could put them forward in the enterprise space Yeah, I mean it's going to be very interesting. It's by the way this This is all falling what they're trying to do is falling under the machine learning umbrella Which by the way the whole security community is kind of getting a little sort of wrapped up in this sort of The obsession around machine learning I actually had a really interesting conversation with a Very smart guy by the name of Davion and Heimer who actually is giving a talk tomorrow about um machine learning failures And one of the things I thought was really fascinating is machine learning essentially learns from our history well There's a lot of bad and negative stuff in our history and often what machine learning does is double and triple down on the Bad stuff and it amplifies it. So a good example of this was you remember the story a while back when Google's image search was tagging African-Americans as gorillas and so it became a sort of a racist machine learning Yeah What I didn't realize is that he didn't actually it also tagged tagged white people As animals but there were white employees to catch that and to correct it And this is a problem with google's diversity problem They didn't catch and correct the other problem as well Yeah, so and and we've talked about the the biases that are built into machine learning coming from the biases of the data And if you don't have the perspective to see a bias You won't be able to catch it in the data and the machine learning doesn't know because it's only going on the data that you give it Right and so what alphabet or actually chronicles As we're correcting train so many names of companies here where chronicles angle is By keeping all of the data. We have a a longer history. We can develop a machine learning algorithm sort of more Correctly because we're not trashing data over time And then there's this whole by the way issue of anonymizing data And how they're doing it because they're not pointing to an IP address Which actually would violate some gdpr issues. So there's and also soon to be california consumer protection act issues as well, which goes into effect beginning of next year. So This is going to take time to play up But it will be interesting to see how their competitors react to this Because if this is their pricing model, which is very different to them competition It could cause some serious ripples This is also something that's interesting with google specifically is their dna of google was basically Taking the money out of enterprise programs for microsoft, you know in terms of Sheets and and docs like they basically made those industry standard free for for people When previously those were paid programs. So they've always had a little bit of a complicated relationship with enterprise because they You know the dna has been so consumer focused. So it's it's interesting to see them Take this tack from the venture side. Yeah, for sure Well, uh, we've got uh, we've got time for to hear a little more of the tales of rsa What what what else you got before we wrap up here? All right. Well, I'll just say in general I gotta say this i'll skip, you know the the fact that there were you know all the crazy booths and things like that and But the thing because we talked about this. I think two years ago about ransomware Well, here's a new thing Ransomware as a service rass Isn't this awesome? You know one of the problems is I want to be a criminal some sort and I would like to blackmail people And you know, I don't really have to wear with all to put up the money to start the process So wouldn't be good if I just paid a service to allow me to send ransomware Which for those people know what it is is I send a Malware to your machine encrypts your whole machine you pay me money and then I decrypt your machine By the way, you wouldn't pay me because I wouldn't do it but the but the ransomware as a service model is to essentially Do a money split you sign up for the service you send it out Whichever money you collect you split it with someone else now. There's good news here. It's not all good. Yeah The good good news is there is a organization called no more ransom.org and as these ransomwares go out They decrypt them and they make that decryption available on the site And there's a team of people doing it and there's more people joining so Keep keep no more ransom.org in your back pocket should this issue happen to you Yeah, and that that that's what you want you want to have an arms race because if if ransomware as a service Make it so easy that anybody could do it All you need is low morals. Yeah, it's going to be a It's going to be much harder to beat than if you have somebody out there saying but we're we're going to be right there Decrypting this as fast as possible And and a lot of I don't know if this was kicking around at rsa But a lot of the blogs that I read are indicating that that really ransomware is becoming too hard So it's not surprising that someone would come up with a way to try to make it easier because they're like Ah, it doesn't pay off. It's it's too difficult Well, I mean I had learned two years ago that it the people were selling kits that you could do it yourself You know you you install the ransomware kit and then you get a bitcoin account But this ransomware service had even leveled up the simplicity even more. Yeah, so It's it is a very tough arms race Well, thank you david for for keeping us up to date with a little bit of what's happening over at rsa Thank you Thanks also to everybody who participates in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com If you want to hang out on our facebook group Well, we've got a place for you facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Well, let's check out the mailbag Let's do it scott had some thoughts on the concept of popular devices versus Best devices and said instead of a ring video doorbell For example, I went with a skybell because it works in a wider range of temperatures I live in vermont and provides a week's worth of saved videos Without having to pay a monthly fee Instead having the instant pot I went with a zaver which america's test kitchen found to be superior in several ways Atk found the instant pot didn't sear that well and was bad at pressure cooking Compared to the competition and the zaver has an alert if your top doesn't seal correctly Which is common problem on the instant pot what will just be forever to get pressure But fall off the seal isn't good It's really important to vote with your dollars and support the company producing these superior products If we just support the popular mediocre product and not the best one then the company's providing good products aren't going to succeed And we're going to be forever stuck with only mediocre or even bad options I think you'll find plenty of people to debate what the best product is, but I agree with that sentiment seems clear Everybody, uh, that's it. We've solved it. Uh spend your money on the best product. Uh wake up shebel I do think though that it's a it's a fair thing to point out that you should look around at the wire cutter or american test kitchen And and there might be some options out there. You didn't realize or I mean look in in in today's day and age We are more targeted with advertising than we ever have been before and I think that that is a great lesson here Is that if you see, you know, if ring has saturated your world view It's still worth a google It's still worth a google to see what other Options are there and whether or not the things are specifically designed for you So I would agree with with scott in that You know, not everything that has the biggest advertising budget is the best for you Put your effort in yeah, absolutely Well, thanks to david spark for being with us spark media solutions and co-host of the sisto security vendor relationship podcast and series David, where can people find what you're up to and and where to go to keep up well for this crowd? I would recommend go to sisto series.com That's where you can see both the sisto security vendor relationship podcast and our new podcast which we just started less than two months ago Called defense in depth where we pick one hot topic and we go in depth I might and I should say that my co-host for those two shows are Mike johnson the now former sisto of lyft and also alan alford the sisto of mitel Both awesome awesome co-host Thanks also to justin robert young for being with us I know you're in austin and having a blast, but where can people find the rest of your work? Well, here's the only thing that you guys need to do is find tom and I At the south by so wasted live show it is this saturday at the north door In austin tex is just a couple blocks away from six street right in the thick of everything podcast link dot com slash night attack It's only 18 bucks now if you buy it now It'll go up at the door So please make sure if you're planning on coming out don't wait head on over to podcast link dot com slash night attack In fact, just trigger your phone voice assistant and literally say podcast link dot com slash night attack And you will be able to get your tickets right there It's going to be an absolute blast meet my myself and bryan brushwood are doing a night attack We have the ice cream social boys coming in from los vegas tom's going to be there Willie deals andrew heaton from something's off with andrew heaton musical performances by dual core and joe moe and the posse and posse We have packed so much value into this 18 dollars. I've got a scream I'll see you saturday folks. No need to shop around. Nope podcast link dot com slash night attack Also, our show is supported by you. You are the folks that give us the most support And you are the folks we are answerable to john Just wrote in and said dear tom sarah and crew. Thank you so much for all that you do I just recently became a patron and i'm so proud to be able to say I support independent tech news I have always told friends family and co-workers about the show But now I can say that i am supporting it directly Keep up the amazing perspective that you bring to the world of tech journalism as well as the fraud pants and diamond club Communities. I really don't know what I would do without you in my workday cheers and mahalo from mawi Well mahalo to you back john Yeah, absolutely join john grab it already and get some of that aloha spirit at patreon.com slash d t and s If you have feedback for us our email address is feedback at daily tech news show We love your emails. Keep them coming. We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc That works with your schedule rad find out more at daily tech news show com slash live back tomorrow from austin texas with lenn perl To illustrating in bryan brushwood is my guest. See you then Our plan studios now A more that way this mother shows programs.com I'm a club. Hope you have enjoyed this program. Whoa, that was good Uh, thank you it. Thank you very much. I enjoyed it as I always do. Sorry, I got to fix all that. Well, fix it at post. Yeah, I'll fix it. I apologize. I had the music playing and then I realized I had myself muted in Google hands. I knew the funny thing is I knew for a fact that even though I can't see you, I'm like, I'll bet you Roger playing that music and I'm sure it's on beat. It's on every and I was like, man, man. I like David Sparks tales of the RSA. We can do that as a title. That's good. Ransomware as a service is another rinse. Ransomware as a service is a sad reality is what it is. I want to also play in the music when I heard the music not come through, but I was muted as well. Well, at least it's consistent. Wake up sheeple has been nominated. We can either go with the Grim Ransomware as a service or with the more enticing and generally descriptive David Sparks tales of RSA. Anybody have a preference? I like the tales of RSA personally. Yeah. Yeah, I like that too. All right. You've made the headlines. Thank you. Thank you. I will share an abundance. Excellent. All over. Where does that take place? RSA is still in the Moscone Center, David. Is that right? It is still it. By the way, by the way, have you been to the new Moscone Center? I don't know. You know, they rebuilt the whole South Hall and at the RSA, you remember when you go to a conference, there'd be an expo floor in the North Hall and if it was big enough, you'd have one in the South Hall as well. Well, they've now joined them into one giant mega hall because there's now this huge wide, wide hallway that's maybe like eight aisles wide of booths. And so as you're walking from the giant North Hall to the South Hall, you've got like eight more aisles of booths to go through. It was really interesting to see Moscone adjust to the fact that, A, cons became so huge, like almost overnight every single company had their own con and it became just a slam dunk. But also that so many companies also had their own gigantic campuses and started doing stuff on their own campuses or other places. That's a really common, common issue. I mean, that happens at South by Southwest, but it's super common at RSA because everyone is complaining. Hello there, cute one. Everyone's complaining about these 10 by 10 booths, which really you can't do anything for less than $50,000 with everything that they're just not worth it because you're standing there among like a thousand others and you're like, I just have to hope that someone interested is going to happen to wander by. That's it. That's probably the fact that, you know, the area outside Moscone, I'm not saying it was ever the nicest place in the world, but sometimes it can get a little sketchy these days. I know that there's been a couple trend pieces of out of town conventions complaining that it's, you know, maybe not the most pleasant place for people to come to a once every four-year convention or once every year convention. The hotels were exorbitant. There were over $750 a night hotel rooms. Yeah, crazy. That's just another problem with San Francisco in general is that they don't have a lot of hotel rooms in period. Full stop. Well, they're building. I mean, that's for sure. There's a lot of construction going on. But the other story I didn't mention I completely forgot is that the company Swin Lane got kicked out of RSA for staging a stunt outside that looked like a corporate strike, you know, a company strike. And RSA has strict rules about doing any branding outside if you are a sponsor. But people actually get around that by not sponsoring at all. And then RSA doesn't get happy about that either. But they got, I had heard through the grapevine that they got kicked out and someone showed me a photo of their booth, which was nothing but black curtains. By the way, just for those listening only on audio, the Hello Cutie was in response to Roger's daughter being on the video stream. Yeah. No, no, no. I was talking about Roger. No, I'm having a particularly on fleek hair day. So I wanted to make sure that everybody knew. Well, because if you're, it sounded like you were saying that RSA was saying Hello Cutie, if you didn't actually. No, no, I was talking about Roger specific. RSA said to Roger, hello. And with that, thank you guys. I'm sorry I didn't work out as well as I should have, but I got a head out so I can get Roger's file. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much. See you tomorrow. Goodbye. Good bye. Good bye. Justin, what discussion thread are you on? Oh, because my example where you committed murder. Oh, yeah. By the way, Tom, I was wondering about that one too. That you watch. What's the discussion thread that you're watching that the fans are typing in? Oh, we've got IRC.Chat realm.divent. Oh, that's what I wasn't looking at. And also our Patreon Discord. I keep an eye on that. Okay. No worries. I was just wondering where it was all. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm going to sign off, guys. It was great being on. Have a great time in South by Southwest. Thanks, David. Absolutely. It's all nice being on the show. And if I don't do it within the next year, I will see you in 2020 during RSA. Yeah. At the very latest. If not the very latest. See you later. Bye. Bye. Thuramwal, don't worry. It was not taken personally. I was just wondering whether or not I had to report to jail. Right. As you often do. I mean, I am late posting a few podcasts. I don't know if that's illegal yet. Oh, it was Bill of Attainer. That's what I was. Bill of Attainer? Yeah. That's where I said I passed a law that stated Justin committed murder and has to go to jail for life. That would be a bit of a tanger. Because Justin may not have committed murder, but I passed a law and now it's a law. You can't do that. Wouldn't it be great if we just casually were like, I mean, Justin will be going to jail for life. Yeah. Obviously. We're committing murder. But let's talk about Huawei. Exactly. Why that shouldn't be a Bill of Attainer. We should let him commit the murder. Bill of Attainer sounds like something that I wouldn't understand that would be in like a shaggy song. Like a reggae song. I'm just like. Well, you know, when Tom wrote up that story actually this morning and I was like, hmm, let's just look this up again just to make sure that it wasn't a typo because I didn't know what it was either. Bill of Attainer learned something new. Bill of Attainer, I'll be honest, is a thing that I knew like it was in my head and I use it sometimes to throw out as a like fancy sounding thing. But I didn't really understand what it was till this morning. When I was like, okay, I've been saying Bill of Attainer because it sounds oppressive for a long time, but I don't know what it means. And now I know what it means. It means you can't pass a law as a replacement for a trial. You can't pass a law that says, you know, Sarah is guilty of fraud. That's our bill. We've made it the law of the land. She doesn't, you know, trial necessary. We passed legislation. Like it needs to be a thing that and in some countries it's not illegal to pass a Bill of Attainer. You can target groups and individuals with legislation, but it used to be used as a weapon to, you know, get at your enemies. See, producing the show is better than jeopardy sometimes. You learn something new. Hey, top five resume mistakes to avoid is now live at techrepublic.com. If you would like my top five resume mistakes to avoid on your resume May, go check it out at techrepublic.com. First of all, yeah, don't spell it resume May. Tip number six. I like how when I tried to say it wrong, I said it right. The best jokes are the unintentional ones. I didn't catch if you cleared up the three Musketeers controversy on yesterday's show. We did. Yes. Roger was sure to address that right after, well, I don't know if it was pre-show or post-show. I think it was post-show. We made sure that the public realized that we're up to speed. And then we talked about Neapolitan ice cream. I never remember three Musketeers having vanilla and strawberry flavors, but I do remember it being in three pieces after we got those 1700 emails. It jogged my memory. I don't remember any of that. Yeah. I had forgotten all about that, but I think I remember them all three being the same chocolate with the white filling. And it's not my favorite candy bar. It's all right. I had a birthday cake flavored three Musketeers last year because my friend works for the candy company and he gave me one a sample. It was pretty good. But it was cake. There wasn't three Musketeers bar in the cake? Three Musketeers bar that was birthday cake flavor. Oh. Oh, I had it completely backwards. Yeah. Right. What kind of cake? Birthday cake. Chocolate cake? Birthday cake. Cheek cake. Just your basic cheek cake. Yeah. I think that's the idea. Okay. So like a white cake. Right. Yeah. Which? Butter. Okay. You know, I'm sorry, Jeff. I know you were very kindly gave me these samples, but I will say it didn't taste any different than another three Musketeers bar. It just had confetti coloring inside. So it didn't taste like a birthday cake. I couldn't taste any difference myself. I wish I would have been there to test because those are the sorts of things that I want to know. I want to know my own opinion about these birthday cake. I learned the inquisitive confidence in Sarah Lane that like, ah, really should have been on the scene. Tom doesn't know any better. He probably does taste it. I should have been on it. Move aside. This is my jurisdiction now. Yeah. Next time we're testing weird stuff, bring it on here. You know, I bet I could get Jeff to send us more test flavors sometime. Listen, if we're getting free tester candy bars, then all of a sudden three Musketeers is very good. And it's actually my favorite. I'm trying to remember there was a Thai spice something. Was it M&Ms? I think it was like here because there's because there's any number of Thai spices. Yeah. Green curry M&Ms. Then there was like, you know, there were things like the caramel M&Ms. I'd probably like those. Is there a blog or something that tracks that stuff? I bet there's probably a series of them. Yeah. Because Pittsburgh for a long time was a test market. It was a very big test market because the demographics were very representative of a national rollout. So they would put out all these random ass flavors of like Pepsi and Doritos and everything in Pittsburgh because that was the good test. If it plays there, it'll play nationwide. If it dies there, then it might be regional. Okay. Here it was jalapeno M&Ms and GTFO and Thai coconut M&Ms. Okay. That is, the latter is not cool. The jalapeno, I might be okay with it because I'm not glad. I would want to get away. Oh, god. Now, Thai coconut M&Ms, please. There's certain things that just should not be tried. The jalapeno one is probably pretty good. We can't do is run over time to our video audience, but we'd like to thank them for being with us today. Yes. Audio folks, stick around. There's more Thai coconut debate to come.