 Oh, cool. Okay. Don't try to escape me. So why do you care about if an animal was treated cruelly? What did I just take away from this animal their entire existence for a flavor weighing that up? Is that justified? I've seen it from both sides. The other side is not to the extreme. Of course. I love your videos. Do you really? I always watch them. Oh, do you? Yeah, of course. Of course. What's your name? Cat. Hello, Cat. I'm vegan as well. Oh, cool. You going to a vegan restaurant? We're going to a place of vegan options because he's not vegan. Well, that means you need to come here and look at the food. Like, don't try to escape me. Not yet. Not yet. Has he seen my YouTube channel? No, he hasn't though. I will. I will. He's going to watch one. There's one called confronting a local family slaughterhouse. It's new. Watch out one if you can. I'll send this to him. Promise? I promise. And you send me an email. Tell me what he thinks. I'm open to opinions. Okay, cool. I don't close it. I want to show you a difference between what they tell you and what actually happens. They basically rely on propaganda and people not knowing. So you get told a certain picture of what you think happens, but it's way different. I think a lot of people don't consider animals as animals. They don't. I think most people... No, I think people do care. I think you care about animals. If I had a pig here and I was trying to stab them, you would probably stop me. I love animals. I do care about animals. I do. I believe that if you were connected to what you're paying for, they've disconnected you from the process. I've seen local schools as well. I've been dancing three. One in Portugal, two over here. And the way that they were treated was better than I've seen. In the mass facility. Yeah, I disagree with... So where did you see this? So two in Essex. Were you in person there? In person, yeah. I mean, if you're there, they're probably going to be behaving themselves. But we left a secret camera and no one knew. Right. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever tried trading places with an animal in a slaughterhouse in your mind. Right. Slaughterhouses are not nice places. They're the worst places I've ever seen on earth. The ones I have to say, the ones I went to was very respectable. And I know you're saying that because I was there, but it was very respectable. And they soaked me the whole routine of what they do from the Portuguese way to the way I learned here. What animal? Two cows, one pig. And the pig was... More anxious? A little bit, yeah. What did you think about that? Like just... The pig one. With a pig one. I was a bit, like, anxious about it. But then it was just quick. That's it. The cows, I was more the bullet in the... So what do you think of that? Like shooting someone in the head? Like, do you think that's... An ethical thing to do? Just... It's not an ethical thing to do, but it's better than... Torturing them. Yeah. Other religions, the way that they do, you know... Non-stun. Let's just say there's another option, right? You've got the torture of them and kill them. You've got the... Don't torture them, just shoot them really quickly. Nice and quick. And then you've got the don't kill them. What's the most ethical thing to do? Well, I mean obviously not killing, but... I mean... I'm on a meeting, so... I do like to meet people, you know. And steak as well. You eat fish as well? But I go to the butchers. I don't buy packet food. I go to the butchers. Traditional butchers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get my fresh as well from the fishmongers. Fishmong? The fish don't actually get killed at the fishmongers. They get dragged up off the boat and they suffer horrible deaths. And I'd rather get it from a packet to eat some air. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, when you go to the butcher, you can never guarantee what happened to that animal before they were killed. If I put myself in the mind of a cow, I still don't think it's justified for what you get out of it. What I get out of eating a cow is a meal that I'll forget, because it's not that important to me, actually. I mean, I like the taste at the time and I'm like, yeah, I'd like to eat this. But afterwards I'm just as satisfied as if I'm eating a vegan meal. But to that cow, like what you take from them is so much more than what you gain from eating them. I think there is justifiable reasons to kill people and to kill animals. Certain situations, self-defence, lions chasing you down. You're about to die of starvation. You know, zombie apocalypse. I just don't think for like a five minute meal, shooting an animal in the head is, even if they don't suffer, is morally justified. A five minute meal could be actually, you know, producing a meal that could last you for a long time. You really think about it. But if you see a dog or a cat, you wouldn't feel the same. So exactly, like if it was a dog, let's just say it's a ten minute steak. Most people would be like, no way, not the dog. But a cow, because we've been... We've been drugged into that. Cows are for eating, dogs are for... Yeah, I understand that. It's called speciesism, actually. There's a word for it and it's where we discriminate based on species, but there's no real moral weight to that decision. That's our psychology, isn't it? Yeah. Because a cow and a dog and a pig, they're pretty similar animals. Yeah. They're actually pigs are more intelligent than dogs. We eat pigs, no problem. Like, it's all good. Never eat a dog though, but why not? It's because we've decided these animals are for this, them animals are for this. It's wrong to kill them, it's okay to kill them. But through the eyes of the animals, their experience is what matters. An animal being killed in pain and suffering makes me angry and upset. I don't want to be a part of it. Whereas some people can watch it and be like... I don't like to look at it from our perspective, humans, because it's more about how the victim feels. Because everyone's like, yeah, I can watch it, no worries. I'm okay with it, I'm not okay with it. Well, that's how we feel. When you look at issues of injustice or unfairness, where there's a victim, you always go, how does a victim feel, is this justified? Yeah, I get that. Because we're always going to look through the lens of our conditioning and our habits and what we like to eat and things like this. I understand that, I understand that, I get that. It's hard for me to kind of, you know, immediately... Oh no, no, these are all seeds that are... these are all just things to think about, you know? I mean, like I say, I don't like animals being... you know, we had this conversation before, standing over there, saying, you know, I don't like animals being treated, you know? You don't look like that type of person, and you don't sound like that type of person, because... I'm quite empathetic, so... I can feel it from you, yeah, but so... I don't like to cause harm to, you know, animals that, you know, need it. And I know it's different in that sense, you're saying, okay, there comes to the meat industry, where they're going to feel that, you know, yes, it's hard, because we don't obviously see them that time. Yeah, yeah, you're disconnected from it. So why do you care about if an animal was treated cruelly? Why do you care about that? What matters about an animal? So I do feel, I'd like to say it, I do feel for the animal. Do you think there's, like, an individual inside of an animal that has their own preferences and desires, and if I was to torture a cow right now, why would you care about that cow? I think everyone would try and stop it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I want to know why they would... why you would care about a cow? Because it's a suffering, isn't it? It's a suffering. It's again, it's a suffering that I will see at that point in time. Yeah. We don't see it. Yeah. Who's suffering? It's not, suffering doesn't exist unless it's attached to someone. Yeah. Someone can only suffer. Things can't suffer. So suffering isn't something that's out there in the ether. Suffering happens to an individual. It happens to you, it happens to you, it happens to me, it happens to a dog. So you care about the individual is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. So don't you care that someone would come up and rob them of their experience? You care about that individual? Of course. Yeah. Like I don't know if you've got... I've got a family, right? Someone shot my brother in the head no matter how quick or it doesn't even have to be my brother. It could be someone I've never met. It could be this person here. Someone walked up and shot them in the head. I'd be like, oh my God, they've just murdered this person. He didn't feel a thing, right? Yeah. But you've taken everything they have from them with one bullet. That's why murder is so bad. There's a close connection between that person that you've seen because you've seen it yourself right there and that is that. Yeah, but even if I heard about it, I'd still be like, oh my God, they're even philosophically I wouldn't want someone to be shot. There wasn't a good justification for it like they were running around. Nobody wants it really, nobody wants it. But there's more of an effect when you see a person than it is if you hear about it. It's like we hear about what's going on in Ukraine with Russia. It's hard to connect. It's hard to connect sometimes with all these things and if we're there, we would be like, oh my God, what's going on? But we're not there, so it's a different kind of... It's kind of like you've got to imagine every time I pay for this, this happens. Maybe. Maybe. Because there's a direct supply and demand chain happening. I think it's about seeing more of the content of how they're being treated and showing it more to these big organizations to get that message across so they see it. That's passing responsibility as well. We're saying this organization should change. But you can't really change them when we're giving them all this money to keep doing what they're doing. You're saying, oh, change, change. The way we get these organizations to change and stop doing it is by removing our support for them. Actually, that's what I think. If everyone removed their support, they wouldn't have an industry. They would be growing soybeans to make tofu burgers and stop killing animals. There's a lot of products. They've got vegan, married anchovies now. They don't taste any different. There's some amazing vegan stuff. It's really good these days. You're going to be hard pressed to find an amazing vegan steak that tastes exactly the same. But then you just have to weigh up, okay, so what do I get out of this steak? Taste. A flavor. What did I just take away from this animal? Their entire existence. For a flavor. And you sort of start weighing that up. Is that justified? I don't know. I see it from both sides. I really do. I respect both sides of that. Obviously, when I say the other side, it's not to the extreme. But this has been mindful of what's happening. I get that and I appreciate that. It's good to talk to you. It really was. What's your name? I'm Stuart. I'm Joey. And you're going to watch my family farm video. Really nice to meet you. Take care. Cat. Vegan cat. And non-vegan Stuart. Pre-vegan. Soon-to-be-vegan Stuart. Listen, I'll watch your video and I'll... Think about it, man. No one can force anyone to do anything, right? I mean, we're not... I can't, like, go... Stop killing the animals. I think this has been a bit mindful and this has been a bit where we've been conscious about it and making small subtle changes, which I'm happy to do that. And then if we can get a message across to those big organizations eventually and they can have those restrictions and those rules put in, that will be the most amazing thing ever. That'll make... That'll change people's minds about, you know, oh, the animals are being treated much better than they should be. Do you think it should be illegal to kill animals? Oh, should it be illegal to kill anything, you know? Anyone? Yeah. I don't think it should be illegal to kill things, but... The thing is, though, is... I know, I'm not going to go into the question of the debate about survival and all that, but... Because, yeah, we're not trying to survive. We're not surviving, but, you know, it's things that we... I do appreciate a good steak. I do appreciate the chicken, but I look at the quality and how they've been treated. I do that. My family keep animals, lots of animals, you know, and they keep chickens and all that, so... So when you go to the restaurants tonight, you're going to say, let's go and show me the footage from the farm and the slaughterhouse. We're going to go pretty good. Where's the slaughterhouse? You should say to one more. So is this pig killed in the gas chamber or which gas chamber? Can we get the footage? Yeah, they're not going to tell you if it's factory farmed or if they... We suffered before they died or if they wanted to live or if they didn't know... But like I said, though, it's the... When you said the example, they're seeing the person being shot compared to hearing about it and it can be... Hard to make the connection. Hard to make the connection. And like I said, I appreciate that. And I would like to see... And I will see the footage for sure. I think you analyze, you know, what's going on and then you can make it like an informed choice, make the connection and then decide. Bit by bit, Joey. Bit by bit. You'll get there, mate. You'll get there. No worries. Take care. See yous later. Bye-bye.