 Welcome to the addiction recovery channel. I'm Ed Baker. I'm your host producer. I'm very pleased to be here today today We have as a special guest senator Tanya Vahovsky Senator Vahovsky is going to join us today and talk about the tragic situation that Vermont faces with basically overdose and Accidental overdose death in a Vermont. Thank you for being on the show Tanya. Thank you so much for having me Ed. I am Happy to be here though. I wish I didn't have to be here. You know, we have a really tragic set of circumstances that are playing out that I wish weren't but I'm happy to be here to talk about it and to Bring light to it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, and I know you're very busy This report came out today. This is a report from the Vermont Department of Health and Tragically is the only word you can use as of September 2023 There were 180 fatal opioid overdose deaths Incidents in Vermont This is a hundred and eighty in three quarters of the year as opposed to a hundred and sixty nine last year of 2022 Overdose deaths in Vermont this year are up 21 there's a 21 percent increase over the three-year average proceeding this year and I need to make it clear that that that number 180 is not including a potential other 21 deaths that are still pending Coroners health examiners have to Make a final decision about the cause of death. So there's potentially 201 or potentially 201 Overdose deaths in Vermont in the first three quarters of 2023 Senator Bajawski, what do we make of this? I mean, you know, there's I think we can look at a lot of different reasons why this is happening And I think what we've we have to make of it is that this is a tragedy. This is a tragedy for our communities this is a tragedy for every one of the families that has lost someone and it's a tragic life lost and You know, I think we've often find ourselves sort of scratching our head What do we do about this tragedy and I can certainly Think about a lot of things we can do and a lot of things we shouldn't do and What we what we have to do though is is respond in Scale with the tragedy that we are seeing, you know, I think some of the reasons we're seeing this is economic insecurity despair And as well as the things that are going into drugs I mean so much of what we're seeing in illicit substances It's because it's an unregulated market people have no idea what they're getting and so therefore they really have no idea How to safely use those drugs? I mean drug use is as old as humans, you know humans have For as long as there's been recorded history engaged in some level of psychoactive substance use However, they haven't always had had only access to such unregulated unsafe supplies I mean largely what we're seeing in the streets right now. Some of it doesn't even have opioids in it made up of xylazine and other Only other Adulterance that we don't know how to respond to and I think one of the things I'm really worried about is the more we focus on our crime and punishment response the more those Adulterance that we don't know how to respond to are going to flood the streets making them even are the supply even less safe I couldn't agree with you more. I worry about it all the time that this population according to Vermont statistics 70% 76% of overdose deaths are people who have had no contact with the helping system There are people who are languishing in the shadows. Many of them have mental health challenges Adverse childhood experiences some of them are unsheltered There there are very very difficult to engage population and as you point out with law enforcement Coming at them in even harsher Manners that it's come at them in the past. They're forced to deeper into the shadows and will die at ever increasing rates But you've mentioned something interesting. What is it? Let's take fentanyl for a second. What is your take on on fentanyl? I mean we know right now that a lot of the Vermont market is fentanyl Which is you know a synthetic created opioid of varying potency because a lot of it is not being created in laboratories It's being created sort of on the streets in illicit ways without regulation and it's Much much more potent than heroin I mean very little of the supply on the streets in Vermont right now actually has any heroin in it It's it's primarily fentanyl and what we're actually starting to see is some of it is not even opioid It's other adulterants and nothing no opioid at all. It's benzodiazepines and xylazine and tranquilized animal tranquilizers And we don't know how to respond to that and I think that is in response to well This thing has been criminalized. We'll use something different You know fentanyl is is really the scourge right now in Vermont But there are some US states where they don't see any fentanyl anymore to move completely to something else And so I think you know that that over criminalization no matter what point you're doing it is really just kind of like a dangerous game of like Whack-a-mole like we get this one and something else pops up rather than really responding to the underlying issues that are causing people to use It brings up this idea this concept of I think it's called the iron rule of prohibition when something is prohibited something worse is created if there's a demand for it and You know we're behind the eight ball in Vermont. You're you're a senator from from Chittenden County I was at a meeting recently with Sarah George and we're on Course this year to equal the number of deaths last year. It'll be probably over 50 Maybe more so one person a week in Chittenden County. The great concentration by the way of death is right in downtown Burlington when you look at a heat map It it frightens you as well downtown City Hall Park all around downtown Burlington as a as a Vermonter as a senator from Chittenden County What do you feel when you when you see what's happening? What do you feel when you when you realize what's going on? I mean, I'm heartbroken. I'm heartbroken that we are caught in a cycle of Prohibition and increased punishment that we know from history doesn't work and that people are dying because of it. No Yeah, I don't have anything else to add. I'm I'm simply heartbroken You know, it's interesting that Nora Valkov the director of NIDA recently in an interview condemned abstinence-based Treatment when abstinence is a requirement for treatment. We lose lives We have to find ways to reach people without demanding that they abstain from drugs now to the viewing viewing audience This is a first part of a two-part Series first part is talking about problems second part is talking about solutions So senator Vahotsky will be on the second part of the show with a panel talking about solutions in Vermont But but but to stick with with the you know currently what we're seeing You know, you've been watching it. What I'd like you to comment on the velocity Like how quickly this tragedy seems to be Accelerating in Vermont. I mean it certainly as you can simply look at the numbers Not only are we on track to meet the numbers from last year We're on track to blow them out of the water like we've done for year after year after year Which is very indicative to me that what we are doing is not working We are filling our jails and prisons with people who are struggling with substance use disorder It's I think 50% of the people that are incarcerated in Vermont struggle with opioid use disorder And I think it's closer to 80% struggle with some sort of substance use disorder we are wasting resources incarcerating people and Eating them up through our criminal legal system and kind of spitting them out on the other end where they're more likely To die of an overdose where they're more likely to be more engaged in illicit substance use and so I think you know when I look at that velocity it's It is the indication on paper that what we are doing what we have been doing is simply not working and we Absolutely have to pivot in another direction and respond to this as the public health crisis that it is not a Criminal justice or public safety crisis, and I'm not saying it doesn't have public safety implications But responding with only a criminal legal framework is clearly not working right when will in fact Worsen the problem it we can see that it's worsening the problem We see it in the numbers of the people in our in our carceral system And we see it with the numbers of people who are dying in our communities and frankly We see it with with what we're hearing out in in public where people who are not using are being impacted because people are Unhoused and don't have a place to you use the illicit substance They're using or people are in such economic despair. They're stealing to meet their needs. This is spilling out beyond the individuals that are Immediately impacted to impact every member of our community and and it is it is a crisis point yeah, I understand that well because it's a it's a systems problem and Something doesn't happen in isolation when it happens it affects everything and We're gonna, you know Just so the audience knows senator Vahovsky will be back talking about solutions to sum up It looks like what we're saying senator is that we have a Population that is extremely vulnerable and at risk for death we have People addicted and multinational companies preying upon their addiction and feeding them lethal drugs and We as a as a state and as a country are not protecting them We as a state and as a country aren't protecting anyone we are not doing what we have to do to respond to this emergency and We we have to Pivot we have to do something different. We have to keep people alive Thank you. Thank you for your leadership and I'm looking forward to the pivot me too