 Good evening. We'd like to call the Durham City Council meeting to order at 7 o'clock p.m. Tuesday September 8th, and certainly want to welcome all of you that are with us tonight If we could just take a moment for silent meditation, please You would ask Councilman Brown if he would lead us in the pledge Madam clerk, will you call the roll, please mayor Bell present mayor pro-tem coal McFadden? councilmember Brown councilmember Cattady councilmember Davis councilmember Moffitt and councilmember Schultz Well, we have several proclamations this evening the first of which is to recognize the 2015-2016 Durham Youth Commission induction ceremony. I'm going to ask Miss Evelyn Scott. She will come forward, please Good evening On behalf of the office on youth division of the city manager's office My staff and I would just like to say thank you to our parents For entrusting us with your children this year We are very excited about All the advocacy projects and things that we have outlined We hope you are as Excited as we are about having your kids participate with us at this time I'm going to pass the mic on to Anthony Mitchell who has been identified as the point person for the D.Y.C. And along with him is Eric Jeffers Good evening everyone I'm as Miss Evelyn stated. We are glad to be here and we are honored to have this group of young teens who are eager to start Working for the Durham Youth Commission to bring some new initiatives to the city and speak out as the voice for the youth in Durham Right now We're going to ask them to come step to the microphone and what they're going to do is say their name They're great and what school they attend and then after that We're going to have them step down and they'll Speak on their oath of office given by city clerk and gray Before we do that. We do have a wrap-up video from last year's term We would like to present at this time just to show what we did last year as a youth commission for the 2014 2015 term has centered around our four committees The first is the scrapbook committee which was responsible for creating the scrapbook Which one first place at the beach conference? The second is the advocacy committee which created greater cooperation between Durham's diverse youth our project included surveys of Durham's youth at their high school and Collaboration with the sister cities initiative of Durham The advocacy committee ultimately culminated our work with a proclamation at the May City Council meeting That declared the week of no barriers as a time to reach beyond Stereotypes the advocacy committee also participated in everyone matters day Showcasing our individual identities by challenging each other and our peers to take to social media and fill in I am Link the third committee the youth ambassadors Was responsible for coordinating our many service projects throughout the year From bi-monthly trips to backpack buddies where we pack thousands of bags of food for kids to take home over the weekend To mobile market and our annual participation in peace toys for war toys There we dressed up in costumes and handed out food and toys to local children Last but not least our public affairs committee started a web series Each episode was written filmed and starred in by dyc members The series covered topics from Black Wall Street and the rich history of Durham To events and activities for teens outside of our committees our regular bi-monthly meetings were full of presentations and activities Josh Edwards from budget and management services Involved us in the city's strategic plan We were introduced to Durham Compass and volunteered at kids voting We also participated in a series of workshops on safe dating and healthy relationships Taught by Sharika Dunston from the Durham Crisis Response Center. In addition to our work in Durham We also attended conferences across the state At mini-grants in Rocky Mount we debated with other councils over which nonprofits to receive the funding they applied for Then we participated in the team building and leadership conference a weekend full of fun activities in High Point In Raleigh we joined youth from all across North Carolina to write and debate mock legislation at the youth legislative assembly And finally in the beach conference in April we competed with other councils winning first place in the scrapbook contest Next year. We've been chosen to host the team building and leadership conference and we can't wait Finally, we'd like to thank everyone that has made such a special year possible. It's been a great term Once again, we would be remiss if we did not think the city manager the mayor all elected officials and the department who reached out to us To provide service for the city of Durham. I'm now at this time. We will have our students step forward and introduce themselves Greetings. My name is to Monte Stanton Jones, and I'm a tough grade scholar at Hillside High My name is Jalen Clinton. I'm a ninth grader at Castro Heights. My name is timing Brown. I'm a 10th grade at Southern High School My name is Quentin McCree. I'm in the 10th grade and I go to early college high school. Oh, my name is Melinda Jolly I'm a senior at Northern High School Good evening. My name is Maya Reed. I'm a junior at Hillside High School Good evening. My name is Taylor Walker, and I am a senior at Northern High School Good evening. My name is Sean Tara for Walla, and I'm a senior at Hillside High School Hello, my name is Eddie O'Brien, and I am an 11th grader at Camelot Academy Hello, my name is Michaela Interkin, and I'm a senior at the City of Medicine Academy Hi, my name is Darianse Glover, and I am a sophomore at Hillside High Good evening. I'm Sarah Falver, and I'm a senior at Camelot Academy Good evening. My name is Olivia Simpson, and I'm a senior at Middle College High School I'm Isaac Atkins-Pearsley. I'm a sophomore at Carolina Friends School Good evening. My name is Kelly Trinum. I'm a senior in the International Baccalaureate Program at Hillside High School Good evening. My name is Attica Fasen. I'm a junior at Hillside High School Good evening. My name is Christine Worcester, and I am a senior at Hillside Newtick High School Hi, I'm Lindsay Molina, and I'm a senior at Durham Academy Good evening. My name is Ashley Kim, and I'm a junior at Durham Academy Hi, my name is Ray Palmer, and I am a freshman at Riverside High School Good evening. My name is Marcus Loughlin. I'm a senior, and I go to Hillside Newtick Good evening. My name is Keri Shaw, and I'm a senior at Early College High School Good evening. My name is Dupanga Parham, and I'm a 12th grader who's currently attending City of Medicine Academy Oh, my name is Brianka Rainford. I am currently a senior at City of Medicine Academy Hi, my name is Brianka, and I'm a senior at Jordan High School. I am Jelisa Garcia I am in the IB program at Junior at Hillside High School Good afternoon everyone. My name is Deanna Thompson. I'm in the IB program at Hillside High School My name is Jelene Prairie, and I'm a ninth grader at Keltree. At this time, we will receive our oath from City Clerk Anne Gray I need each of you to raise your right hand and repeat after me. I do hereby solemnly affirm that I will support and maintain the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution and Laws of North Carolina, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of my office as a member of the Durham Youth Commission Congratulations. Okay, we just heard the young students Swear to obey the Constitution and this next one speaks to Constitution Week 2015 proclamation. I'm going to ask Ms. Fran Ferrell, the Regent, John Davie chapter of National Society of Daughters of the American Revolution. She would join me. How you doing? Whereas it is the privilege and duty of the American people to commemorate the 228th anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America with appropriate ceremonies and activities whereas Public Law 915 guarantees the issuance of a proclamation each year by the President of the United States of America designating September 17th through the 23rd as Constitution Week. Now, therefore, I, William V. Bilbell, mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina do hereby proclaim September 17th through 23rd 2015 as Constitution Week in Durham and urge all citizens to study the United States Constitution and reflect on the privilege of being an American with all the rights and responsibilities which their privilege involves. What's my hand in Corporate Society of Durham, North Carolina, this is the 8th day of September 2015 I'm going to present this to Ms. Ferrell, if there are any comments you might have We'll go take a picture. Let's turn it around this way, so everybody know this is the proclamation Never miss a good opportunity to say a word or two, right? Thank you Mayor Bell City Council What I would say on behalf of the Daughters of American Revolution is actually read the Constitution of the United States Actually look at everything instead of saying I believe in the Constitution Do you really know what it says? And when you read it, you must read all of the amendments because that's part of it and as a little side note North Carolina Would not ratify the Constitution Until the first ten amendments were put in and they are called The Bill of Rights So there are a total of 27 amendments after this 228 years It's a fabulous document. There could never be a perfect document But it takes care of a lot of things if you actually Read it Along with the amendments. So my organization the Daughters of American Revolution Will have put posters in every school in North Carolina in Durham To call attention to the fact that it will be Constitution week There is a federal law that says any School of any age for any age students who receives any federal funding must acknowledge Constitution week it doesn't say they have to teach it for a month, but they must do something so the poster and the Centerpiece in the libraries. We hope will call attention to that and we go to about six or eight schools in colonial costume and talk about the Constitution and how it was written and Just so you know You get taught a little bit in 1776 of course we had the Declaration of Independence But it didn't have teeth So we didn't have a means of collecting taxes or defending ourselves and so by 1787 It was pretty chaotic and so there were 55 men who put their hearts and souls into writing that document and It it's worded in such a way That it really is pretty fair I Would hate to think we had to write one now that would be good 228 years from today so at On September 17th About 330 We and some students from Voyager High School Will meet by the convention center and walk up to the history hub and Then at four o'clock in tradition we hope to Ring bells and wave flags and we would love for you to join us But if you can't you can ring a bell at four o'clock which represents when they signed That constitution and if you don't have a bell in those days a Spoon tapped on a teacup Serve the purpose so happy Constitution week to all of you. Thank you so much Little history lesson is Dale Mediola if you would join me, please This is a proclamation that recognizes Life insurance awareness mark and I'll let jail introduce the rest of the people that are joining us and I won't read all of this Proclamation, but it speaks to the fact that according to LIMRA International's life insurance consumer studies Only 44% of us households have an individual life insurance And speaks to the fact that nearly a third of us households have no life insurance coverage The highest percentage in more than four decades and continuously getting worse according to the research firm LIMR Speaks to the fact we're almost 75% of Americans agree that life insurance is the best way to protect against premature death of primary wage earners and Speaks to the fact that whereas 29% of Americans would like to discuss life insurance with financial professional Yet three-fourths of American households do not have a personal life insurance agent or personal financial advisor or planner And it speaks to the fact that whereas Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company Created a life-bridge free life insurance program to protect families that can't afford life insurance and to ensure that a child's educational Aspirations remain intact if a tragedy tragedy should occur Ostrich whereas life insurance provides financial security for families in the event of death by helping surviving family members To meet immediate ongoing and future financial obligations and objectives as well as emphasize your personal Commitment to the core values of importance of providing for the family in this trying economic climate Now therefore I win the bill Bell mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina Do have a hereby proclaim the month of September? 2015 it's life insurance awareness month in Durham Hereby urge all citizens to take special note of this observance and to encourage all concern to be more aware of their life insurance needs Seek professional advice and take the actions necessary to achieve the financial security for their loved ones And witness my hand court to sale city of Durham, North Carolina this eighth day of September I'm present this to Dale for in the comments and she will introduce Mayor Bell city council members city manager supporters Audience and associates. I am Dale Matioli and I am truly thankful and Sincerely grateful to receive this proclamation, which is an acknowledgement that our mayor and you Care about Durham. It is appreciative from us to those that support him to help him with his poverty initiative goals What's in a proclamation? It's the sentiment and enthusiasm that counts and I have that I'm devoted to this for the rest of my life in the Durham news Jim wise put in on January 29th of 2015 that the mayor Says that 2015 is a year of action Ahead for poverty initiative mayor Bill Bell said 2015 will be the the year of action for Durham's poverty reduction initiative This proclamation recognizes the month of September as an awareness month to value the wealth of everyone alive To address their life insurance for themselves and their left behind This proclamation is a special way to recognize an organization that supports life insurance for Americans Lembra the life insurance industry my associates Teresa Robinson Henry Pittman and Demetrius Harvey to name a few of my associates so that we can continue to educate families and all of us alive Because you can't get it when you weren't alive, of course, so I I Want to thank you for your prayers and your support and I am very Enthusiastic about making a big difference in Durham and when the mayor spoke about the mass mutual Life bridge free life insurance. This is a program. It's the only major company. Yes paying the premiums for eligible poverty parents For their children to get $50,000 of free educational monies If they die So there's more details that you can get on my website, but this is what I'm doing Voluntary no commissions nothing but just prayers and my dear God So I want to thank you for your support. Pray for me My goal is to get at least 100 families done in Durham by the end of this year Thank you very much, Steve. That's another thing you can add to your finance committee Let's miss Dorothy Smith Voluntary coordinator for National Alliance of Mental Health illness in Durham and Mr. Thomas Chairman of the Durham Recovery Celebration Planning Committee The parking race reads whereas behavioral health is an essential part of health and one's overall wellness Where it's prevention of mental and of substance use disorders work Treatment is effective and people recover in our area and around the nation Where it's preventing and overcoming mental and or substance use disorders is essential to achieving healthy lifestyles both physically and emotionally And whereas you must encourage Religious and friends of people with mental and or substance use disorders to implement preventive measures Recognize the signs of her problem and guide those in need to appropriate treatment and recovery support services And whereas in 2013 over six hundred and nine thousand state residents experienced mental illness and over six hundred and thirty nine thousand residents abuse alcohol Substance and our prescription drugs according to the North Carolina Center for Public Policy Research However, the same report indicates only 52% of individuals with mental illness and 12% of individuals Abusing substance sought help due to the shame and stigma attached to behavioral disorders Given the serious nature of this public health problem We must continue to reach out to those who need help Whereas given that an estimated 1.3 million people in the state of North Carolina are affected by these conditions Whereas to help more people achieve and sustain long-term recovery US Department of Health and Human Services The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration The White House Office of National Drug Control Policy and the Durham County Criminal Justice Resource Center Invite all residents of Durham to participate in National Recovery Month And now therefore I will you be billed the old mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina Do I proclaim September 2015 as National Recovery Month and Durham and have our urge all the citizens to take special note of this observance and what is my hand court still the city of Durham, North Carolina This is 8th day of September 2015 I'm going to present this for any comments that you may have Thank you mayor bail and and city council I am have been years and years in support in NAMI working for those people with mental ill and and their families And I am very pleased to have Mr. Robert Thomas talk to you about our recovery celebration, which we are going to have in In this city Soon and I wanted to say especially thanks to mayor barrel for his work with the housing Because housing is one of the three stools that really is a support for those people who are in recovery from mental illness and from substance abuse Mr. Thomas Thank You Dorothy and yes, this is our third year of Promoting recovery in Durham We have a recovery celebration coming up on September 19th. That's a Saturday At the criminal justice resource center, which is right on East Main Street 326 East Main We'll be there from 3 to 8 p.m. To promote recovery from Behavioral disorders and how can we not support recovery? When we consider the devastation that occurs with individuals families neighborhoods communities We must support recovery I think this year's Theme is visible vocal and valuable the theme from SAMHSA and To me that means that people are more willing to come forward now and say, please don't Judge me by my disability Please consider that I am a complete person not just a diagnosis But I'm a husband or wife or family member. I work I vote. I have hobbies. I have likes and dislikes Just like everyone else So we find that by having events like this where people can actually talk to people in recovery We want people who are interested in maybe making that first step into recovery People who support recovery all to come together and celebrate the fact that yes in Durham, North Carolina People can and do recover Thank you Let me ask are there any comrades by members of the council Recognize councilman Davis Thank you, miss ma'am before miss Fran furrow leaves I want to follow up on her discussion about the Constitution and to remind the community that this year will mark the 150th anniversary of the 13th amendment the ratification of the 13th amendment and there was Friends of gear cemetery A location where there are people who are resting in peace who were former slaves Will be the friends will be holding a program in honor of the 13th amendment on 70 December the 5th and Sunday December the 6th all the details have not yet been worked out But we do want to let that be known here particularly since This is constitutional week coming up next week The second item. I'd like to add is that it's Sad to note that the passing of a former member of this council. Mr. George Nixon Who passed away recently so We've lost him and we remember the services that he delivered to this council Thank you Thank you councilman Davis or recognized the mayor pro tem Evelyn scott has already departed, but I just wanted to thank her For the tremendous job. She's doing with the youth commission and this year. We do have Money some money set aside for delegates to the national league of cities conference in national Tennessee, they are doing some great work and I want to thank her just letting their time Sorry You know Del matioli mentioned uh a program That she had tried to get started here In city government that would certainly benefit our employees. I understand that there have been some roadblocks And so I need to have somebody to investigate and see why Um, this can not be something that if our employees want to do Uh, they can do Because it sounds like a good program Uh, to me, perhaps we can talk about that when We talk about the broker Contract in work session because there might be some connection between the two. Thank you, sir Other comments I want to uh Speak briefly about The derm orange light rail Uh transit deis And the reason I want to speak about it this time in our work session On september 10th. I know the council will be entertaining a letter to be sent to the Goal triangle as a part of the public comment period And I probably most of you know that there's a 45 day public comment period when people have an opportunity to speak And in the fashion they want or write Uh any comments they may have relative to the proposed Dorm orange light rail Uh, there also as you probably know are going to be two public hearings One is going to be on september 29th From four to seven o'clock at the drumming auditorium in the friday center And chapel hill And again, that's an opportunity for people who have comments to Get their comments on the record at this public hearing session There will be a second public hearing on thursday october 4th From four to seven o'clock That would be in the Durham county commissioners chambers on 200 east main street Which is old courthouse on the second floor Again, it's an opportunity for persons who May have comments or thoughts that they want to make sure as a part of the Public hearing to get that on record And the reason i'm mentioning this is because uh one I chair the go triangle board But more importantly, i'm sure that most all of us Have received comments letters and et cetera persons expressing their opinions on various aspects of the light rail But what's important is that Those letters not be sent to us as city council people But it'd be sent to the go triangle board Because that is the only way the public commerce that you make or the letters you write the concerns you have are going to be a part of the record If you send it to city council people It's not acceptable as a part of the public input. So you need to send that to go triangle. I have the Both mail and address and email address and mr. Manager. I'm going to pass this on to you I'll share with the councilmember. So somehow we can put that up so people will be able to see that There's a A diary if you mail it by mail it goes to d o l r t project dash d e i s In care of triangle transit And there's a post office box that has been sent to us post office box 5 30 marsville north crown honor 275 60 And the reason that it's going to that is because that will be the official Receptor for any comments that persons have so if you send it to somewhere else It's not going to do what you want it to do You can you can also email it and i'll leave the email address but the email is info i nfo at our transit future dot com again We can get that information out for persons that that need it And the comment period begins august 28th And it ends august 13th. That's the 45 day period. So we're in that 45 45 day public here in common So i i just thought it was again significant that we State that in this public meeting And i'm sure we have an opportunity to have more discussions at the council When we discussed it at the at the work session Okay, i'm sorry the comment period began august 28th 2015 And it ends october 13th 2015. That's the 45 day Period that people have an opportunity to make their comments and again You can attend the public hearings and be a part of the record and Chapel Hill on the 29th of september from four to seven at the friday center Are here in durham october 1st from 47 at the durham county commissioners chambers on the second floor Okay, let me ask are there Our items first by the city manager. Thank you, mr. Mayor. No priority items this evening Likewise City attorney. Thank you, mr. Mayor. No priority items likewise city clerk Yes, mr. Mayor members of the council. I'll just remind council that you have ballots at your places for the citizens advisory committee and the Durham bicycle and pedestrian advisory commission Thank you, okay, we will again the agenda and as you most know We have a consent agenda in person scan Pull an item on the consent agenda either in the audience or on the council. We discuss that later in our agenda otherwise, I just read the headings of each one of the consent agenda items item one is an item to be found on the journal business agenda and That's us 70 self storage and i'm going to pull that out anyway item two way Is the Durham bicycle and pedestrian advisory commission reappointment Item 2b is an item that can be found on the journal business agenda Item 3 is the Durham historic preservation commission appointment Item 4 is the mayor's nominee for appointment to the Durham convention center authority Item 5 is boards committees and commissions attendance records for the period of july 1 2014 through june 30th 2015 Item 6 is 2015 resident survey Item 7 is fy 2016 agreement between the city of Durham and north crown state university for the support of the triangle regional model development enhancement and maintenance item 8 is professional engineering services for the demolition of decommission wastewater treatment facilities Item 9 is the bid report for july 2015 Item 10 is the grant agreement between north crown of the department of transportation ncdot and the city of Durham for the west lv creek trail phase 2 project item 11 is network hut license agreement between between the city of Durham and google fibrant north carolina llc item 12 is fy 2016 in the local agreement with Durham county for the purchase of sodium chloride and item 15 is item that can be found on the general business agenda during public hearings entertaining the motion for the approval of the consent of the general exception of item 1 it's been proper to move in second madam clerk will you open the vote is it open is it working or not because i didn't vote but can you can you reset it you're shaking your head what does that mean you can't reset it it's not doing anything mayor bill i don't know what the problem is okay i guess we're about to vote by hand here it's working okay okay it's open will you close it it passes seven to zero all right thank you let's move to the general business agenda item one is citizen citizens advisory committee appointments that's what we have ballots for and likewise have ballots for during bicycle pedestrian advisory commission appointments uh item 14 is the police headquarters complex preliminary site layout concepts update and while the manager's getting ready to step up to the plate you have staff ready for that okay we have and let let me say we have one two three four five six persons that have signed up to speak on this item so we'll hear first from the staff good evening mayor bail mayor pro tem colman fadden members of council gene approach assistant director general services department our team is here tonight to follow up on any additional questions or discussion concerning the police headquarters project since our presentation at work session on august 20th we've provided additional information in your supplemental agenda packet arising out of our work session further as requested at work session we've solicited additional feedback from the Durham area designers preservation Durham and downtown Durham Inc regarding the five concepts we presented on august 20th our team has met with the Durham area designers and preservation Durham we have shared an alternative site concept diagram and a pro con matrix that they have provided subsequently the Durham area designers and preservation Durham provided a revised matrix with additional criteria and that has been submitted as well those materials have been shared directly with you along with a letter from ddi we do not have a formal presentation but we're here to answer any questions and i'll invite deputy city manager bogh Ferguson to provide any other comments thank you gene of mayor members of council on bogh Ferguson deputy city manager for operations just briefly wanted to follow up on a meeting we did have with the Durham area designers and preservation Durham last week to provide just brief reactions to a design schematic that they presented that's in your packets we summarized our comments in the follow-up agenda items that you received over the weekend i think the first thing we would want to stress is that we haven't done a detailed analysis it's a design schematic it's not something that our architects have had a chance to really dig into so it's it's the reactions that we provided to you and as we shared with Durham area designers and preservation Durham when we met with them are to a certain extent off the cuff reactions they're not the results of a detailed analysis the discussion we had and i know they're here to represent themselves this evening but i hope i would represent them fairly to say that their design is one that primarily achieves the goal of of maximizing the potential for private redevelopment on the site and it is not one that we we developed on our own because we approached this project with the objective of primarily building from the ground up for the program of the police department and 911 headquarters and we also in the council's decision to select this site pursued a goal of having a presence on main street and so our primary concern about the schematic that that's presented is that it does eliminate any presence on main street for the police headquarters in 911 and we felt like that was a design objective so that was some analysis that we captured for the council in in the memorandum secondly i think you know there was a general concern that it it pushes all of the uses associated with the police headquarters it kind of squeezes them mid block it does achieve many of the purported design objectives that we discussed at the 820 work session but does so in a way that that we feel we haven't adequately been able to analyze how well how it may impact the the site in terms of the the program those are general reactions again that's not a detailed analysis i believe that the Durham area designers and preservation Durham would would agree that that one of the objectives that that their proposal was designed to meet was to maximize private development and so i don't think we disagree on that analysis it also obviously does maintain the carpenter building for private use which is not a an option that the staff had presented where we showed options for maintaining the carpenter building we did so as part of the police headquarters so wanted to just summarize that analysis both for those in attendance tonight and to recap what we provided to council and with that the design team is here the staff team is here to answer any questions you may have thank you you let me first ask other questions that staff has of the council has with staff and recognize council brown yes thank you both can you before we get started on this can for those in attendance as well as those at home can you give us a general idea where these proposals rank and these are the the budget that was originally proposed none of the five proposals that we showed on the 20th are are consistent with the original project budget that was in the cip designs four and five are consistent with the revised budget that was discussed at length on the 20th designs one through three would require an additional 3.8 million on top of the revised budget due to the renovation and reuse of the carpenter building okay again for those at home can you go back and give us the original budget proposal and then how much of course this is determined by the proposal that we will accept but how much that has changed the original project budget was approximately 62 million which included land acquisition construction design soft cost everything associated with delivering the project as we went through on the august 20th work session we have updated our cost estimates and our new revised budget to deliver the program as originally developed is approximately 80 million dollars therefore we identified some potential program reductions in order to um reduce that difference about 9.6 million dollars worth of reductions uh maybe i should ask this question later um i grew up in Durham and um i remember the carpenter building and i'm trying to think back about what it did for the community especially during the civil rights era just trying to find out what is really the importance of it i know there's no uh architectural value uh for keeping it there but i just need some help uh trying to come to grips with why we want to preserve it when like a mile and a half away a whole group of buildings uh were destroyed and there we're talking so much about preserving this this this building and i'm i'm talking about urban renewal now so if somebody could just share with me the importance of this in the history of Durham as it relates to what happened to actually black owned businesses and then we're trying to keep a building that has no value and that will be even uh more costly to the project please help me do you know anybody that can mayor part time i'll just offer the what i want i think you asked a very appropriate question but unless the staffs prepared to respond to that uh we have people that signed up to speak that may want to respond to unless somebody on the council responds staff okay that that'd be in the case and let's see if there are any more questions but i remember the council of the staff and if not i'll go to the audience for persons who have signed to speak on this political item recognize councilman davis one question i guess um we mentioned from the staff that uh we weren't prepared to discuss the most recent proposal uh is there any estimate as to when there might be an analysis that you would make that would be presented to the council i think we're comfortable standing by our our opinions that we've shared i think what uh if council directed that that was a preferred scheme we'd ask the design team to to do an analysis i don't think it would be be more than a few weeks but i don't know that we are some of the objections that that we brought tonight are observations that i think would carry through that final analysis what that would do would would be more of a feasibility test to make sure that the design as presented uh could in fact meet the programmatic requirements any other questions if not we'll proceed to the persons who've signed up to speak on this item i'm going to initially ask if you would hold your comments to three minutes of course if questions come from the council that it's not a part of your time we have victoria peterson minister rafid zahadi zahidi uh ellen castley wendy hills david onison and leslie leslie frost in that order so if you proceed to the podium to the right uh as i've called your name again state your name and address and the clock is ahead of you first speaker is victoria peterson let me just make one of the comment when i call persons names i call them as a written them on the card that's why i don't say miss a mister something like if you say miss i'll put miss on there if you don't i'll call you by your name victoria peterson i thank you city council members and thank you mr mayor of victoria peterson i live here in Durham i just want to just share 80 million dollars is just too much money folks it is just too much money and mr brown and and mr davis and maybe the the attorney could help me with this i thought when we dealt with the with the bulls i mean with the stadium uh the people voted on it when we did the uh dermbull stadium i would like to know from mr baker and it made me he can get up with me later on i would like to know why isn't the citizen voting a voting on this issue several made me several years ago i came to this council pleading and begging you to address the crying problem in this community the crying problem is just off the hook i would like to see some monies use to get a handle and develop some good programs in this community to get the crying out where i live i live in walking distance from north Carolina center university and folks we've had shootings over there we had a shooting on my street the other week a mr mayor we've had someone come on to our property stealing the councilman Cory McFadden and mr davis i'm not trying to embarrass my people and when i say my people the african-american community but we are in a crisis in this community with crying and this problem could have been very easily taken care of years ago when when many of us came down to this council pleading and begging you to seriously address the problem and how we address the problem we keep building larger police buildings hiring more police officers the crime continues to go up we had police officers here saturday a person was shot down in this community because they were having a mental health issue on saturday that's the second african-american young man shot down by our law enforcement what a sad sad state and what we're doing in this community to our young black men black men who are in crisis and mr bondfield and mr mayor and the police chief this woman here me i'm sharing with you i'm very disappointed in all three of you because you're all men you're all men and together you haven't done very little to address the crime problem that is plaguing the african-american community and something needs to be done about it and an 80 million dollar police building is not going to do it thank you mr mayor thank you victoria let me i i didn't i know you directed a question to the uh city attorney but the ball stadium was not built with a referendum there was a referendum when i was chairman of board account commissioners to build a ball stadium and it failed but fortunately the city council which i was not a part of chose to build a ball stadium and they built it without a referendum so i just wanted to stay for the record that wasn't that wasn't used and so the council has the authority to build the police station without a referendum yeah so we have that authority to do that now the cost is a different issue but we have authority to do that and uh since you directed some of your remarks relative to the balance in this community uh to me specifically along a couple of us uh let me say every day doesn't day go by that i don't think about how we deal with this issue and somebody has a solution i'm open to it i'm open to it and you should know and i guess the public should know uh just for the record and i know it just doesn't mean a thing if you're a victim of crime i understand that i understand that but i can tell you that since 2001 since i've been mayor if we look at the crime index for violent crime for a hundred thousand people and this city is now 251,000 people it is lower than it was in 2001 that's true for violent crime index and it's true for property crime index now again that doesn't take away from the fact that we still have violent crime going but the point is that violent crime per hundred thousand people since 2001 is down in terms of the year 2014 where we're going to be in 2015 i don't know but i look at this every day it's on my calendar when i meet with the manager every week and if a person has a solution or solutions i'm open to them including you i said including you but we're not going to do it here we're not going to do it here including you uh the next person to speak on this item is minister rafi saeed uh good evening mayor uh mr barnfield and mr krita we are i'm well familiar with you you and i have sat down many days to discuss this issue first i want to say i want to take a a hint because that's where it really is from the herald sun september the sixth according to the deputy city manager both first and he told her son last week the plans presented to council back in august were run against what first and call a pro con matrix i want to stop right now now i've seen the movie the matrix i know there was a blue pill in a red pill i don't want the city to take the responsibility of almost 100 million dollars the way things seem to be going and later on take a pill and have to bite on that pill which will be a bitter taste to our community 20 million dollars more than the original have already been projected for this project yet there have been no complete environmental impact study i still call for that i call for that because i'm calling out of the divine there is something about that earlier that bothers me divinely and i believe once you put this money in that earlier god will show you what i'm trying to get over to you i'm gonna leave definitely dead our educational system in there along with the county government it's bankrupt to our children yet we can find 80 million dollars they're putting a billion or building but we cannot seem to find on a mall status money to put in our youth something is wrong with that picture that the students have to beg for money in this prosperous city affordable housing accommodation is needed poor blacks whites and browns are almost out of doors in Durham a public housing just came before you in beg for $500,000 to reverse their building so that we would have a place to live but we keep on talking about a police station in light of something that sister just said why we can't put that money in an earlier way as needed at now all young black men are coming out of jail one hour out of jail started the morning brother levante bigs committed suicide why he had no mental health treatment in jail a man come out of jail one hour on the street seven oh two angie avenue calls his mother and shoot itself but we have no professional listen now professional people in the police arena to handle these people i'm sick of this i'm tired of this that my young brothers and sisters got to die because you don't have the popular health care trained professional people they got to run in with guns and i'm saying this and i take responsibility the law or reciprocity is getting ready to come down on down the law or reciprocity thank you next is ellen castley thank you very much first of all i wanted to thank the council for asking dermary designers to weigh in on these schemes just as a side note dermary designers is made up of architects landscape architects urban planners and realtors and maybe a few other folks as well so the reason why i say that is we really look at problems from all angles and i think as it was presented it sounded like we were trying to maximize the commercial aspects of the site and that in fact was not our we had two main goals and that was police safety and good urban planning and in reference to having the building address main street schemes two three and excuse me two four and five all try to do that and and i commend the the design team because they've done a good job but they can only do as they're directed and um there are issues with safety of the police officers that were brought up during these discussions and when um when the topic was brought up of having main street be lively and active the police officers were quick to say yes but and and it's that yes but that concerns me and i think we have an example of that with the substation number five on rigsby where um it's neither an open building nor because the police were very much against having those windows and so we end up with the building that really doesn't do either and um and so really police safety and good urban planning was really our main concern and i do think as far as addressing main street because the carpenter building is about 30 feet tall and the new police station i'm assuming will be about 60 feet tall not exactly sure on that measurement the fact that there is a parking lot presently to the west and the fact that uh elizabeth street is such a skewed angle it actually will still have a presence on main street and of course eventually there will be a building that will be built on that parking lot i'm assuming sometime in the near future and if that building needs to step back ever so slightly so that we can maintain a view from main street these are really talented designers and i know that you're up for that job um so um i i don't know if um the FEMA standards were handed out to you it's a whole list of of requirements that need to be adhered to and um having a a nice open welcome space along main street is not does not work well with the security of the police officers thank you wendy hills hi my name is wendy hillis and i'm the executive director of preservation durham i'm here to talk about historic importance and ask answer the mayor pro tem's questions first of all i do want to say that we partnered with durham area designers on the revise the alternate scheme that was presented to you and while ellen just focused on the main street presence and the idea of activation on main street i want to follow that up with some discussion of the historic importance of the building so to specifically answer your question to my knowledge that building does not have any association with civil rights history i mean i'm sure something happens there but that's not that's not the main story associated with that building and i would disagree that the building um does not have any architectural merit um while the building is not currently listed in any historic registry i would say that's more of an oversight um duke university is not listed on any historic registry and i think we can all agree that duke university is historic and has some great buildings i have had preliminary conversations with the state historic preservation office about listing this property in the national register of historic places it looks like the way we would do that would be a thematic nomination of the early 20th century car dealerships on main street of which there are several in fact the county housing authority i believe is in one um as you go down the street fishmongers is an old car dealership the old studer baker building which is now respite there's a whole series of them um that date to the early part of the 20th century and they were really integral to the tobacco history in town people came and sold their tobacco at auction and then were flush with money and all went to main street to buy their new shoes and buy their new cars so there's this story that can be woven in um i think there is some architectural merit to the building um i can name dozens of buildings in Durham of similar age and architectural merit than have been successfully rehabbed and continue to add to Durham's character fishmongers the old studer baker showroom on duke street the old social services building at 300 east main the old book exchange building the five points building where the cupcake bar currently is meteo indeed most of the buildings on main street are of this era brick buildings two to three stories the other thing i want to address is the idea that this would be an additional three point nine million dollar add to the project i would encourage you to think about that from a private development standpoint and if this parcel was sold off and led to a private developer that developer could take advantage of preservation tax credits 20 federal credits at this point and an alternative building code indeed with a budget that's 18 million dollars over at this point how can you not maximize your return on what you have available to you my quick calculations are that with the three things we have located in red on the plan that was given to you the three sites at $26 a square foot which is what you all paid for that site that's 1.4 million dollars add to that the demolition costs for the carpenter building and not having to abate the carpenter building and i think there's a potential thank you next is dave arneson good evening thank you for soliciting public opinion on this important issue i just um here to endorse the germare designer scheme uh i think uh ellen and wendy have spoken eloquently about it um i'd like to read a couple things from the unified development ordinance uh that i think are relevant here in purpose and intent it says protect existing neighborhoods prevent their decline and promoting their livability also mentions conserving the value of buildings examining the most important uh most appropriate use of the land and to protect historic sites and areas this site's in the uh downtown design support one district and when you get to the um definition for that district it says this district is established to encourage intense development and pedestrian activity through regulations appropriate to the downtown area um the standards encourage a vital downtown economy that enhances germ's position as a commercial culture and entertainment hub of the region while increasing livability the ddi is intended to work in tandem with the downtown germ master plan and updates and in the master plan for downtown of course you'll find all kinds of similar language about walkable livable uh mixed use vibrant uh active streets uh and i think the scheme presented by diramir designer's accomplishes all of this um uh in a way that's superior to any of the five schemes that had been presented uh previously uh putting the police department on main street um i would offer is uh probably the lowest uh priority about any of the criteria that are in that matrix um there's all kinds of very critical important uh security concerns and programmatic requirements square footages parking all that kind of thing um but why is it important that the police department be on main street what function does that achieve or how does that benefit the community or the police department for that matter um we've heard about the security concerns that are actually in conflict with the idea of putting the police department on main street um private development on main street would um satisfy uh the goals of the udo and the downtown master plan better than um a large civic building with a single highly secure and appropriately so um public entrance um and also say that um not only can the diramir designer scheme uh save the city some money by selling off these parcels of land uh clearly we're not asking the city to spend the 3.9 to incorporate carpenter into the police department but uh you also don't spend the money of demolishing that building you generate some revenue by selling the property as well as the other two parcels indicated in the scheme um but there would be ongoing uh tax revenue generated by these private developments so that would be a benefit that would pay long term dividends to the city thank you very much you're welcome uh Leslie frost good evening mayor and members of the city council um i intended to get here early and write down an outline of what i was going to say but as i was getting ready to leave my house there were two quick pops that sounded like firecrackers and as i got on my bike i saw that everybody was out on my street and so i went around the block and everybody was out on the streets and the blocks and there's a man lying at the end of my street who has been shot and the EMS truck came up very quickly but it didn't leave and i saw them doing CPR and it brought home to me very viscerally how uh important the police department is to our community but it doesn't change the reason why i came to speak here tonight which was to ask the city council to um reopen the site selection process and choose a better site for the police department our police officers and to open up main street for the kind of development that will connect east storm to the downtown and the economic engine of the downtown and that will um save the historic buildings that create the fabric of our city i'm sorry i intended to be a little bit more eloquent but i'm very shaken by what i saw and i'm particularly shaken by like the two-year-old kids that were out on the street watching what i think was a man dying so thank you are there other persons that want to speak on this item if you could come up and just state your name and address and you get the uh yellow card out you've spoken if you don't mind good evening i'm john martin i live at 401 east trinity avenue um and i've lived in durham um for almost half a century even longer than steve shul um so i have seen durham unfortunately continue to make the same mistakes over and over again i mean i've seen some good very good things but i've seen some of the same mistakes when the mayor pro tem said why did we tear those buildings down um a mile and a half away i couldn't agree more when i came here the built more hotel was still there um the regal theater was still there the doughnut shop was was still still there um the washington duke hotel of course was was still here we keep tearing down buildings and then a few years later we say oops why why did we do that and i'm afraid we're about to do that again and i and i don't get it please delay this process a little bit longer look into the proposal that the durham area designers has come up with they're serious people it's not somebody coming up like me who's not a designer not an architect coming up on saying on the back of the envelope i think you can do this let them look at it let the city staff um look at it look at the kind of possible cost benefits that we can get and then consider the fact that we also want to make east main street um more conducive to pedestrians i'm probably the only person here who has walked after midnight um from downtown back to up east main street by myself um that's when i lived in golden belt and it's not once you cross rocksboro street you know it's a little bit scary um we can put some more businesses there some private um businesses that are open we can make that part of main street thrive again and it won't look like unfortunately what the former haytai now looks like where we've got the empty rick hindricks chevrolet parking lot where the built more hotel used to be thank you john could you sign a car please so we can have for the right marcus jackson trademark properties i have the good fortune of representing a number of property owners along ramson street i also represented the carpenters in the cell of the police headquarters land to the city and uh also fortunate to represent the investor group that just acquired the hindricks chevrolet dealership and plan to turn it into a three to four hundred million dollar new development for the city uh i'm here to talk about walkability a pedestrian orientation uh enhancing an area that clearly can be a new source for our eclectic funky businesses to relocate that is what drives our city diversity eclectic they're getting driven out of in some cases getting driven out of the core of the center city by rants and newer development a lot of the property along ramson street is already starting to transition to those eclectic and funky locations that i believe drive Durham uh pony source brewing is getting ready to open in a couple of weeks i would encourage you to walk into that brewery they have sunk a serious investment in that facility it opens in two weeks directly across from the police headquarters i have the bud piper roofing facility under contract to a developer that plans to renovate and redevelop that facility they're not planning to tear it down they're planning to renovate it and turn it into what you and what i think the city desires and and so with that in mind uh i i do believe the city and its architecture team has accounted for a pedestrian orientation but i wanted to make sure it's enhanced that we talk about east main street that is important but ramson street is a huge opportunity keep in mind what i just said about all of the eclectic businesses that are likely to locate there and i've already started to locate there no one has mentioned that the dillard lrt station is also directly across from ramson and so ramson street is going to become very important i want to make sure that the sidewalk system around the county parking lot has continued around the police headquarters and the and the tree planting also uh in a number of the designs there is private development on ramson street but i want to encourage the city not to make the same mistake that a lot of cities make when they build a parking deck uh they plan private development against it the private development does not come for years so the side of the parking deck is this horrible barren looking parking deck and it's going to inhibit what you want to happen on ramson street and i've heard no one mentioned that i'm not trying to add to the budget but i think that's important and i thank you for listening thank you are you going to speak hi my name is tim walter and i think i'm one of the funky little businesses that marcus just mentioned so i'm with the uh reforming revitalizing durham fruit and produce company which will hopefully be an art center at the corner of dillard and ramson street so i'm kitty corner across the street from the police station site and one of the things that i'm really sensitive to is yes helping to connect east and west durham and one of the things that we're not looking a whole lot at uh because it's not in the program that the designers were given but if we think about it our municipal government governments will have built roughly 900 spaces of restricted parking in those blocks and no added nothing to public parking in the area so as you're looking to enliven those blocks of main street and helping to get people to walk from east durham back into main street back down towards the center part of town um if you park your car at the police station or in the county health department lot and you go to your business there you have to leave you have to move you're not allowed to keep your car parked there so it's it doesn't really add much to the street life so i think where these private developments are municipal buildings where they private developments we would have looked to the to the developers to um collaboratively address a parking solution and enliven the space that's there so i just want you to be aware of it feels like you're building a lot of parking and feels like you're generating a lot of pedestrian traffic and people that may park there but they really are very limited in their usability and in the um the street life that will take place in that area so something to be aware of thank you you're welcome is there anyone else that wants to speak a comment on this item no this is not a public hearing but it's an opportunity for people to speak if you have comments or questions i know i just just a minute miss peasants you've spoken no you've spoken is anyone else that has not had an opportunity to speak that wants to speak on this item i don't want to take and follow questions please and if you were expect you know respect we respect the chair we're not taking follow up questions i see a lot i i see it miss peasants i'm not i'm not going to debate that i'm not going to debate that i'm not i'm not going to debate that okay well i'm telling you i'm not i'm not going to i'm not going to discuss it i'm going to come back to the council the question of what we build where we build is what the council has to decide i would read eight million dollars is an issue and that's what we're going to talk about so having said that i'm going to ask other council more of it and then so i have a couple of questions to start with i wanted to ask miss hillis if you come back up i'm i'm miss i'm miss the the um you you made a statement right at the end of your presentation on revenues at the same my math my math at the end yes if you would just repeat that for me sure if you look at the three red areas that we have located on that plan there's one of 35 000 square feet on ram sir 15 000 square feet which is the triangle on main street and 5 840 square feet which is the the footprint of carpenter at 26 dollars a square foot which is what you all paid for that land that's 1.4 million dollars plus not having to pay to demolish carpenter or do the hazardous material abatement on carpenter she are you saying you think the value of the carpenter building is well i actually think the value of the carpenter building is more than that if you look down the block uh 300 east main street the old social services building eligibility building that sold in april 2014 for 1.8 million dollars um it was a building that had been renovated on the first floor the second and third floor were in far worse condition completely unoccupiable than this existing building it's a slightly larger footprint but using that square foot number i came up with a value of about 800 000 for the carpenter building alone okay thank you and then i have a question for mr jackson then while you're coming up i'll say mr jackson you were saying that you've done quite a big of work in the area and i just want to ask your opinion of the viability of selling the carpenter building as is you know is it saleable and would somebody buy it and if so in your professional opinion knowing only what you know at the moment yes yes they would uh there is a serious momentum uh and an investor appetite for urban real estate and there's rapidly rising interest in city of derm real estate all you need to do is look at land prices where they're going you may recall northwood raven acquiring the former christler dealership for 11 700 000 on 6.2 acres without site plan approval and and you all probably have seen the number of the dramatic number of building trades in the last couple of years it's just a huge amount of interest in the city of derm and you all deserve some of that credit you've built a great vibe you've got great momentum so yes it is sellable thank you thank you mr man recognize councilwoman cotaardy thank you mayor um i just wanted to say that um actually i started this process preferring building on the current police headquarters site but that is water under the bridge so given that um regarding development on the main street site i have a few questions and maybe comments for staff um in no particular order um one of the recommendations well so ddi liked schematic four and dad likes the hybrid of five plus one um but just looking at the schematics for four and five alone can you talk a little bit about the differences really it's just it looked like building massing to me but i couldn't quite tell so i wanted to hear what you had to say good evening jeffrey bottoming with o'brien akins the differences between scheme four and scheme five is the amount of um building located on hood street in scheme four okay so there's a significant amount of that building facade on hood street and um yeah that those are the differences okay that's the main thing thanks um oh thanks we're trying to keep multiple uh things open up here at the same time um let's see um can staff comment about sidewalks around the facility that was raised by one of the thanks maybe best to address that to the design team okay the comment was made was whether sidewalks would be required around the perimeter of the site we would provide sidewalks around the perimeter of the site correct that's what i thought okay and um a comment was also made about surface parking um and and i believe the reference was really the bulk of the parking that i think the gentleman was referring to was really county um can you remind us how many surface spots there are not in the garage in the proposed schematic the visitor parking for the headquarters is i believe 72 spots and that would be public is that correct that is for the yes that's a sign for the headquarters and so evening hours evening hours that could be used by other people it's open access is that correct that would be up to the the owner okay thanks um so i guess turning now to carpenter um and wendy i do appreciate your numbers i'm not sure where you got the larger number at at 5800 square feet at 26 um dollars per square foot i came up with 151 000 so i don't know what the additional part you were referring to she was referring to the other red spaces i believe on the site no i've got the 35 000 square foot um land along ramster that would be about 910 000 the triangle piece at 15 000 square feet that would be 390 000 but 58 i use 5840 right comes out at 151 840 right i thought carpenter all right i thought i heard a larger number i added the three of them together no not on the 1.4 but the second time i heard a higher number okay just checking go ahead i can answer that that was when she drew a comparable to the sale of the building at the corner of rocksboro in maine then she estimated the value of the carpenter building at somewhere over 800 000 right as opposed to being raw land got it thanks um so i guess this question is more to staff um i know that we use that number roughly of four million dollars to renovate the building and incorporate it into our design but can you remind us what was in that estimate in other words if we were not using it and we were selling it what do we think and you may not know but um what would it cost a private developer to renovate and use that building i mean in other words the building needs work is that correct correct and our original estimate the 3.9 was if we were to incorporate some of our programmatic um space in the carpenter building the estimate of 4.2 was to return it to a usable core and shell facility a building i'm not taking into consideration tax credits or any of the other things that may or may not be in play okay i think that's helpful i just um when we're trying to weigh all these things yes maybe we could preserve it and yes maybe we could keep it for or sell it for private use but someone would have to invest to improve the building so um let's see the other thing i had um when we were originally talking about well some of the schematics with the triangle and or the land along ram sir if we were to sell that property where would we anticipate an rfp process or just a flat sale i don't know if the manager it would you know that has not been determined yet it would be you know consistent with the state law requirements which could be either either of those but to be determined i think for me one of the questions was if and i do support the retention of the land along ram sir for private development i still don't know what i want to do along main so i'm just putting that out there but um i do have concerns about if we maintain or release the triangle piece in the carpenter building would we have any control in either case regarding design i know people want main street activated etc but once it's no longer in our hands it's private development and you may not get what you want in that case either and i just think it's important to put that out there um and so i don't know if staff has any comments on that i would just say cast member katalia again you know that would be something that you know would be determined at the time the property was declared sir plus and uh and solicitations were received it's possible that we you know would would want to put restrictions or or require submittals that met certain criteria whether it be the carpenter building or the or the the property on the triangle typically in in my experience is though the more restrictions that you place on those requirements uh that's going to impact the you know the price and the values of what you receive because it's you know putting more costs on the on the potential development but again that all would remain to be seen when we got to that point or if we got to that point i appreciate all that thanks i'm just trying to whittle away at all some of the decision points um one other thing i certainly understand the concerns about the eighty million dollar budget um but that does um essentially staff is proposing that we reduce that by the nine point six million in accommodations or changes and it also does not incorporate what i remember as being roughly ten million dollars for the possible resale of the current headquarters site on chapel hill street as well as rigsby is that correct so so there are additional savings and then lastly i just wanted to say to your point victoria regarding hiring officers our population has increased and so we're always expanding police staff to accommodate that as well recognize councilman shul thank you mr mayor uh mr matt before i have some questions about the headquarters of course but i did want to just address a couple of the things that were said were by speakers that i i think just need some sort of response so first i want to start is miss frostill here uh it's terrible that you had to see that and what happened in your in your neighborhood is a terrible tragedy and we don't know the facts and you don't know them yet either but i do want to acknowledge what you said and to say that this is uh as the mayor said and he he does he says he thinks about this every day and he works on it every day and he does and many of us think about this too but i did want to acknowledge that what you had said and can understand how you feel uh i also wanted to say uh to mr zahidi um the i also have a lot of concerns about the officer involved shooting that took place the other night and i don't know any of the facts other than what was in the newspaper and there will be a police report on that and we will hear about it um but i this is the second time in the last three years that a person who was suicidal was killed by our police officers and i don't want to prejudge that in any way because i don't know the facts but i am very interested in what happened uh were the where the where the appropriate tactics used did this did this man have to die and i have grave concerns about that and appreciate you raising it because this is something we we need to know uh on the police headquarters um so just to uh put a period on what uh dian was saying uh we we we throw around the 80 million dollars number but i think we're down now to maybe 71 million dollars or so uh still expensive but i do think it's it's right to to think about what the real number is um the to our staff we we're basing also this price on how uh uh the account county participation about 3.2 million dollars and so do we have a reasonable confidence level that this will be forthcoming thank you councilmember surel yes uh we have had conversations with the county the county has not uh committed to a specific number the the county has uh uh repeatedly affirmed that they agree to a percentage participation of the communication center thank you and the uh and then i guess this is probably for um uh brian adkins the memo and what uh both said earlier is the the steering committee believes that the dad uh proposal misses an opportunity to have for the project to have a positive impact on main street and i wondered if you could explain that uh that thinking we believe um that the when we say it misses an opportunity to have a positive impact on main street we're referring to the opportunity to um directly impact main street with our project we don't know what that future um potential is and when you put restrictions as we mentioned on that property so that that positive impact that we're referring to is the impact that we control do you mean about that that you'll have a great building that will have a great presence on main street we we will have a building that everybody in this room is proud of that is our goal i'm proud of the human services building i had nothing to do with it uh but i'm proud of it for our community but i'm not really proud of the way it faces main street so what would you say about that i i can't speak directly to that design i don't know that that process and and so i'm not going to criticize somebody else's work without come all the information give it a try i i i i i i will just tell you that we will be back and and we will share um designs of our project um throughout that process and you'll have opportunities to have feedback throughout that time okay um but it's okay and so um the the officer safety issue um do you have any comments on that that uh vis-a-vis uh what ellen castley raised yeah so yes and we talked about this with dad's um ellen wasn't able to be at that meeting but um part of that is how you situate a building it's also how you design a building and so as designers um we are given a site on main street and so we need to find the appropriate balance between addressing main street and making that active and considering the officer safety and and that not only goes into how we design a facade whether we do if we it's glasses it bulletproof glasses it less expensive alternatives to glass that allow for some transparency there are um transparent uh gsa projects border buildings that um weren't considered to be uh buildings that had daylight or views and there were inexpensive ways found to allow that to happen so as designers it's our um responsibility to give you all the options and we um design appropriately we you know we balance those needs so tell me so can you say to me what would be the advantages the important advantages of the building being on main street as opposed to say behind carpenter and another commercial building that might be in that triangle in the on that property but behind them what would be the again you get that day one impact on main street so you get a positive impact on main street um day one i think the other opportunity is that you don't have some of those again when we have those private businesses in front of the building that's not a lot different than having those private um businesses in the first floor of the building there is a little space between them but not a great deal of space and then where we define the property line between those things and the police's ability to um you know to uh control their site just become it just begins a blurred line i agree with the front of the building yeah i agree with you that the police ability to control their site and what's outside is really important do you um could you build a a building we would all be proud of behind those commercial buildings if they were there that would be our charge and yes yeah um do you think that just having nothing to do with whether or not you're able to do that which i'm sure you would as well would you do you think that uh we talk about activating a street do you think that the having the carpenter building and the um and something else commercial in that triangle would would help activate that portion of main street you know how do you think about that just as an architect i mean i can't say that it would i mean there's no negative impact on main street obviously um as long as that there is demand for that space yeah it can have a positive impact on main street the question is demand for that space and then again i know this is probably not your exactly your area of expertise but i bet you know a lot about it which is if those were commercially available if carpenter was commercially available what is your sense with mr jackson i believe sardy said that he thought there would be demand for it and so did miss hillis but let's just say she has an axe to grind i wonder if you would care to comment on you know from your knowledge of the of what's happening commercially here whether or not you thought there would be a demand i think go brian akins has weighed in on what our opinion of the uh the carpenters okay and then um which i think would be that it would be very expensive to it would cost three and a half million dollars to renovate for a police facility and does not have any particular architectural um wonderfulness again i we've commented on that and and rather than then change our comment every time i just refer to our past comments okay i can't remember your past comment but i apologize i'm sure they're part of the record i'm sure they are and then the pro con matrix um was interesting and um let me see if i can get to that my computer's trying to help me here here go i got it it came thank you anyway don appreciate it um the this was sent on nine one fifteen is that the most recent that we have the uh the matrix that was sent on september first would have only been a recap of the staff's initial attempt to to rank and populate that matrix based on the alternative scheme presented by dad's yeah the matrix that ranks all five seen uh schemes was sent on august 21st yeah right yeah i'm sorry i just meant the dad one in this case thank you i should have said also i think that i wanted to offer my appreciation for the dad for coming up with this idea i mean i had pretty much resolved myself that and and i and i do feel that we should not spend an extra three and a half to four million dollars on carpenter and so i had pretty much i feel pretty strongly about that i i don't think it's the best use of our money so this is a way to help us out of that if we think it's a proposal that can work and i'm appreciative of the creativity that went into it so for those dads who are here thank you um on the pro con matrix the the activating main street and i guess then this is a uh a question for staff i'm thinking although i'm not sure if architects were also on the steering committee but the do you the the activating main street um dad and preservation durham put a pro on that and and um the the steering committee put a con on that and i just wondered if you wanted to comment on on that certainly i think it's a good chance to clarify that item and a number of items on this list i think we throughout this matrix evaluated the pro con about what we could control when we built this project so when we talk about activating main street we are specifically referring to what we task our design team to do and given the fact that the scheme that we were evaluating in this scenario completely removed any city imprint over what happened on main street our analysis was that that that removed your opportunity through this construction project to have that imprint we understand what they're implying with a pro which is that private development may when it achieves its potential may provide that and i think we don't necessarily dispute that but our ability to control it with this project is what we were commenting right that's that's very helpful thank you um and then um one more question which is uh you had referred to some concern about compressing the site that the dad plan would compress the site and you had some concern about that and i wondered if you wanted to just talk about that in a little bit more detail sure and i can't get too specific because i would i would say that that that is sort of the unknown that we reference a little bit of uneasiness about not really having had more time to evaluate the concept i think given that the uses get closer together they did they were very diligent in maintaining our program so i want to acknowledge up front that they used our numbers in building this scheme and they showed that to us i think given the fact that um there are that um the carpenter site has a buffer around it uh in in their scenario and that uh we haven't fully run that buffer through our security consultant they did use a similar buffer so i think they've tried very much to respect our program and i'm not suggesting that we could not make it work i'm only saying that we've provide a level of diligence and review on the other five schemes that we haven't here and given that this is the least amount of the site dedicated to the police facility and its uses that is something we would certainly want to vet before moving forward and and if if that that vetting would take approximately how long just uh i'm gonna wild guess put our team on the spot and ask them to comment on that i'd say about a week internally would take a week so we could get it back to you okay well let me just say i'm i'm very interested in that vetting i mean a week is a short period of time and if it was a little longer i'd be interested in that too so um i think this has a lot of promise um i can see why we certainly you know yes it needs to be vetted more thoroughly um and um so i would be very interested in that and hopefully we could i'd like to support proceeding in that way mr ma'am you're welcome but let me uh share my thoughts on where we are uh first of all i want to say like diane this was not my preferred spot it wasn't the old police headquarters it was fable fable street fair place that was my preference but for whatever for valid reasons that that went out of the picture i think we also need to understand the decision this council has made and the decision the council has made is that we knew we need a new police facility i mean i don't think anyone on here question that uh and so we proceeded along that path uh we proceeded along the path that this was the best spot out of the three that were were proposed the old police station fed place and fed and main street and we proceeded to assume we had a certain budget that we're working with and the staff has explained pretty thoroughly the charge we gave to the architects and they pretty much were designing based on the guidelines that we provided i wasn't at the work session when these alternatives were were presented i've had a chance to to look at them since and i guess one of the questions i first of all i was not in favor of supporting saving no car from the site for a very straight i just couldn't see putting those kind of dollars into that building especially when based on what the architects were telling us is value so that that was not in in my favor it still isn't one of the questions i wanted to ask is has has there been any offers for that facility since i know el central wants to stay there but has anybody else offered to buy that building no sir okay so i i guess i'm a little to buy the building before we start talking about it the building's been sitting there long before the city decided to use that site for police headquarters i'm trying to understand was there any interest in that building okay marcus could you come to the who i was going to speak if you come to the uh david arneson center studio architecture i've been speaking with a developer who expressed some interest in learning more about the building they can't make any commitments of course but they expressed interest in learning more this is recently yeah but prior to that nobody expressed an interest that you were pardon me prior to this gentleman that you spoke to had anyone else talked to you about purchasing that site or that building no okay does anyone else know if someone was interested in that building prior to this discussion we've had miss frost now you're free to because i'm asking the question so if you have an answer feel free to come up i think there's a difference between that building and that entire site and previously it was marketed as that entire site which is the entire carpenter chevrolet and incorporates what three or four buildings so that building alone has not been marketed and now that it's owned by the city i don't know that it's in people's radar that it would be available well i i would tend to disagree with that if a developer somebody had an interest in that building they would have expressed that interest to the onus independent of the fact that the city now has it just no one has expressed an interest in the building until we came to this point so i i just haven't felt the need from my perspective that we should given where our prices are to do it miss frost um so i did have a conversation with the developer who said that he thought that the city had paid too much for the site but that he had been interested in the site i mean he hadn't bought it obviously but he was very interested in the carpenter building um and this came out and i actually talked with another realtor but again this part of town is is sort of just it's the momentum is going up for this part of town so the fact that there hasn't been you know interest in the last few years doesn't mean that there's not interest now and and the city's purchase of it and the discussion centered on the police headquarters i think has raised people's interest about what's there so i would i wouldn't say that that would be the question you know has there been interest but rather would there be interest now and i think i think that would get a different answer what what what can the staff tell me what what did we pay for that building roughly i see you've got demolition costs of about 256 thousand dollars of foreign foreign 489 thousand dollars i'll select 561 thousand dollars what what do you think we paid for that building for the carpenter site it was five point four nine million the site no i'm not talking about the entire site i'm talking about if we carved out the carpenter piece we we haven't done an analysis of of that we can do a basis on what we pay per square foot but we've not done another analysis of what the market would bear again let me go back to where where where i started i i didn't see the the early models have had an opportunity to look at it i do value the fact that designers have come up with a proposal uh for me i would not be averse to i guess i'm where steve is on this i was there before i before he said it but i would not be averse to the architects taking a look at that facility as proposed to come back and give the council their appraisal of what it would take to do that design especially when you're telling me it's another week or two weeks to do that i don't think that's going to make that big of a difference but at least we will had six models that this council can now look at with numbers to make a decision and with that i think nobody can feel that their opinions weren't given given given opportunity to go through and express your feelings on this particular site and it'll be back up to the council to make the final decision i can tell you that the only way i support keeping the carpenter building is that we had a private developer who's coming in and taking off our hands and we could guarantee that was going to happen but otherwise as far as i'm concerned it could go that's that's a cost that i think this project can yield forward at the dollars that we're at so i would support where steve is i we got to me is just another model so now we've got six models we've got a model that doesn't have a cost attached to it and if the architects feel that they can share kevin only exception i take is that the other five schemes that you saw were vetted in terms of drawing them out this is a diagram we will have to go back and bring it up to that same level and then go back so i i just i don't want to make a comparison that they are apples and oranges at this time we can make them apples and apples but i don't want you to say that they're the same because they're different at this point in time well i appreciate that because that's what i was trying to understand what would it take to take it was it's the one the two week time frame would be there we'd have to get lend lease involved because there was some cost vetting that would have to be done we will have to mass out those ideas on that diagram see if it pushes and pulls anywhere you know in terms of the square footage and things so but i just don't want there to be left that they're both at the same level a different amount of effort and time went into building those other five well i'm not saying i'm not well thought out how do we make an apples apples comparison and we would have to go back we would have to do the same type of diagrams that we did for the other five schemes we would have to look at it we'd have to review it with lend lease and then come back and tell you what all that effort and obviously that's an additional cost that that is correct i think we need to factor that into it also yes it is it would be an additional it is not in our original scope of work that is correct well again for for a project of this importance and size i think we need to do as much as we can to at least satisfy this council that we've done a thorough vetting of and we would love to do that i'm just trying to be sure that we understand what we're not comparing the same things at this point in time i accept that but again to me two weeks for a project that's going to be here at least 20 or 30 years i don't think it's going to hurt us that much in terms of time if in fact you can get to the apples apples please are there other comments that we have mismatch on it i'm sorry councilman davis well not about this but i'd like to go back at some point before we leave here tonight and i don't want to blindside anybody but this community has had a lot of uh disturbances over the last little bit of time and i'd like to not leave here without hearing from our police department to find out what they are seeing and what kind of discussion we can have about the violence that we've experienced over the last two weeks or so this may not be appropriate and not so let me know but the issue has been raised by some of the speakers um and and there are issues about past violence and of course the balance is down overall but the issue is this is on the minds of people here in Durham and if they can give us anything beyond what we've heard tonight it would be beneficial to me and i i think you have a valid question and i want to hear as much as we can hear without jeopardizing what type whatever investigation is going on i like to deal with this issue yeah that's why i say this is not appropriate so whenever it's appropriate yes all right so let me try to come back to where we are are there any other comments i recognize councilman moffatt i have a few comments i find one of the more challenging issues that we've dealt with as i'm sure all of us do you know we're balancing the needs of the men and the women who work for the city of Durham the impacts on main street and all the people who live east and west of the site and um and the impacts on the community and of course the long-term capital spending implications um i will say that the cost you can't just say oh it's 60 or it's 71 million dollars because it's related a lot to the program the uses and um and what we're doing there so in trying to i'm very concerned about the costs and one of the things that i would be interested in hearing a little bit more i think the staff can do this i asked them to do this this morning and it was not possible but they've come back and said in the time allowed they've come back and said that cost per square foot with peer cities for the facilities they built which i thought was interesting but i got to thinking about the cost per resident for example how much did different communities and of course it depends a lot on what the program is what are the uses that are going into the facility but um so far what i've seen on the little bit that we're able to put together it it hasn't set off alarm bells for me what did set off alarm bells was apparently the first estimates we had were really poor and um we needed to make sure that we have good estimates going forward because we don't want to have continuous surprises next thing i want to say is is that on the question of whether or not we should have a statement building should is it important that the building have frontage on main street in order to be able to have an impact on the street the building have an impact on the street from the beginning i said i've been concerned about what this building might the impacts that it might have on the street and i know that the designers are excellent that the firm is great but i'm concerned about the conflict between what we're calling the need to activate main street and safety and security of the people working in the building in the site we heard some talk about controlling the site but we've picked a site that's bounded by four public streets it's it's as almost as um as open a site as we could possibly go for so i so i'm looking at what what's the conflicts between those issues and whether or not uh in the dad the dad proposal they've actually pushed this the building back away from main street and for me i think about what what when we go into a community when you go into a community and you say what what makes this Durham as opposed to anywhere usa and part of that is the historical context of what's here so i think it's important to really look at the historical context preserve it where we can when it's cost effective so when we were looking at spending four million dollars on the carpenter Chevrolet building and i was weighing that against our other capital needs i couldn't get there but because of all the trade-offs but if we could sell it which i think it's something that we should look at if we can sell the triangle and therefore have uses along main street which actually add to the experience um i to give not just something that's handsome not just something that is landscaped but something that actually provides uses that people want to walk to to access to use um and if we can do that without it costing us four million dollars then i'm in thank you thank you uh are there other comments questions if not then i don't know if we had to need to have a motion uh is this sufficient mr mr manager you understand there's consensus to council that will take a few weeks do some additional review and come back at either the 24th work session of september or the first work session in october okay thank you thank you uh let's move to the next item which is and ed we're going to do us after we get through all these other pieces uh this is a the general business agenda public hearings item 15 is the zoning map change for us 70 self storage center z 14 00020 good evening mr mayor members of council pat young with the planning department i can first certify for the record that this public hearing item has been advertised in accordance with the provisions of law and their affidavits to that effect on file with the planning department as the mayor indicated the case is z 14 00020 uh us 70 self storage center it's a request to change the zoning map designation of uh approximately 7.55 acres at 34 7 excuse me 34 15 east us 70 highway from its current designation of industrial lighter i l with a development plan to i l with a development plan with modified committed elements for a proposed self storage center uh the development plan associated with this request includes commitments above the ordinance minimums including dedication of right away along us 70 highway as well as reservation of land for the future extension of page road planned at this location uh please note also that this applicant is seeking approval of fence greater than four feet in height in the street yard along east us 70 highway this is allowed uh by inclusion on this development plan in lieu of a major a minor special use permit uh you will also have noted that staff and the planning commission had concerns about non-compliance with the comprehensive plan policy that recommends adherence to the adopted metropolitan transportation plan or mtp and the wake Durham comprehensive street system plan also known as a collector street plan the mtp and collector street plan call for us 70 at this location to be converted in the future to a limited access highway and that therefore new driveway connections onto us 70 be discouraged the applicant's proposal calls for a new driveway connection onto us 70 uh it is staff's opinion that text commitment number three which is on the face of the development plan as depicted on the cover sheet for the development plan and will be modified further by the applicant tonight substantially addresses the concerns regarding compliance with the mtp and the collector street plan to the maximum extent practical uh the text commitment does this by requiring that the requested driveway associated with this proposal onto us 70 be closed and that alternative access to the site be provided at no cost to the city state or county uh at such future time that ncdot converts this facility into a limited access facility and staff believes that this commitment is legal and enforceable and recommends it be accepted by city council uh staff determines this applicant the applicant's proposal complies with all other provisions of ordinance and policy the planning commission heard this item at their april 14th meeting and recommended denial by vote of one to ten i'll be happy to take any questions you've heard the staff report this is a public hearing uh the public hearing is open let me ask first are there questions by members of the staff recognize councilman market yes mr young could you repeat what you did you say that there would be an additional proffer tonight to commitment three yes can you help me understand that again please sure so uh the commitment three that should be on the face of the draft development plan talks about actions that the applicant will take to ensure that the proposed access onto us 70 is temporary and that will be removed at such time as uh ncdot limit access limits the the facility how does that differ from what's in the package it adds additional uh timing mechanism again i'll let the applicant read that into the record but um they've shared it with us earlier today and what it does is add an additional um timing mechanism that indicates that the uh an easement will be dedicated to ensure the cross access prior to issuance of the first building certificate of occupancy again that will need to be formally propped by the applicant council okay are there other questions by members of the staff if not we have two persons that have signed up to speak on this item ronald harvests and jeff bendy bandino benzene yeah okay okay great sorry about that mayor members of the council thank you i'll try to be brief as i know you're tired tonight um i am excited about the new police headquarters and the amount of work going into designing it it's not easy it's like a church uh committee in the camel that was designed but i won't get into that the proffer i was trying to figure out why staff i thought after the planning commission meeting we had really hit the nail in the head and came up with a proffer that would be acceptable to be compliant with the uh major transportation uh quarter plan i missed a point it took myself talking to both steven pat today to figure out what i missed and it was a mechanism by which we record the easement a definitive date and so uh paragraph three uh this is the last sentence which access shall be used uh if when the access drive is closed such permanent access easement will be memorialized in an easement agreement between the affected property owners to be recorded in the derm county register of deeds prior to the issuance of the first building certificate of occupancy and to run with the title of the property now we i did not draft this totally we did hire an attorney uh jeff is here to speak to that i think this puts a nail in the coffin for the driveway we recognize it's going to be limited access one day neither d or dot nor the city want the expense associated with closing the driveway or relocating it and what our client is willing to take that task on we have multiple avenues for additional driveways one is across this easement and the other is the page road extension when it's constructed we're adjacent to it so i think there are a number of alternatives but i i believe we've given you something solid that makes it compliant with the comprehensive plan i'll be glad to answer any questions i'm happy to answer any questions um just to run through basically how this is going to work from a legal perspective the applicant has applied for a driveway permit from the ncdot the dot is offered to um issue a permit condition upon again the driveway connection being closed at some time in the future whenever the the highway is made limited access there'll be no compensation to the landowner um for the closure um the um the way we've worked around that is um we've gone to the adjoining property owner from whom the client is buying the property subdividing the property out that property owner has agreed to give access easement today um we're at closing providing access over that property our client will have the right to build the road over that property when the dot driveway connection is closed um or alternatively if a connection to page rose may then the client will have access to a public road at that point um we've negotiated this agreement we've done this many times with dot on us 70 on us us um capital pool board us one up in north riley we've done this several times never had a problem dot is always very willing to work with us um and we can put a covenant on the property as well that this this covenant this agreement will actually be recorded in the register of deeds on the subdivision plat that's recorded um so it will run with title to the property it'll bind our the current loan landowner and it'll bind future landowners as well so it's a it's a it's a very solid legally enforceable obligation and commitment on our client's part and that that runs with the property and i'm glad to answer any questions we have thank you mayor i think my question might be to transportation staff or whoever wants to answer it but i appreciate all the information you just shared but just to clarify the intention is that you will build the driveway now and move it when 70 is upgraded that's correct when when dot closes the driveway connection at that point our client will build the road across the joint property okay thank you so to staff i mean i believe that we consider 70 clogged and problematic and not good level of service so it's not just when ncdot and or the local mpo etc get the money to upgrade it i i don't i'm not convinced that we should be supporting any additional driveway access on 70 now temporary or otherwise can you comment um yes bill judge transportation um yeah as you indicated every additional access point does lead to additional congestion that's why on uh limited access or controlled access facilities um those driveway connections are removed the applicant has um i guess the existing zoning does not allow allow the driveway which is part of the reason why the the property needs to be rezoned they have gone to north carolina dot with this proposal and they have tentatively whether they have i guess indicated that they would approve a driveway permit with these conditions so i guess ron can you address why you're not not necessarily not pursuing the easement but why you wouldn't just build the alternate driveway now instead of accessing 70 yes ma'am there is a single driveway for approximately 100 acres of land with 2,500 linear feet of frontage on 70 that access point is used exclusively by tractor trailers it's a lot of movement back and forth large tractor trailers we don't really want the general public mingling in with that it's it's a dangerous situation when we talk to ncdot about the additional driveway we even acknowledge that their request is going to be for a d-cell lane to be built on 70 to get our traffic it's a right in right out it's not a full access so it's right in right out and we'll have a d-cell lane that gets traffic out of the lane and into the driveway without dramatic impact to the existing traffic flow i just don't like mixing the general public with the industrial traffic that really there's a lot of it and they they travel all over the place on both properties although the questions comments recognize councilman moffitt so just to be clear and this i i think this is for the lawyer i just want to be clear when you said a covenant will be recorded what you're saying is is that a future buyer would have a record would see a record that this driveway was required is that correct yes it's a when we record the subdivision plat we actually put language on the subdivision plat that contains this this this covenant to remove the driveway and it essentially says the current property owner and future property owners waive all right to compensation anybody's searching title to this property is going to find that plat is going to be referenced in the legal description and that's how it binds all future owners great thank you um so for staff mr young this is actually for planning the the report in our packet says it's not consistent with the metropolitan transportation plan and you made a comment earlier but i couldn't tell whether you're saying that staff would revise that at this point or not well by providing the new access it's not technically compliant or consistent with the metropolitan transportation plan what i intended to say and i hope i did say is that the actions the commitment that the applicants clarified tonight is provides the most mitigation short of removing the new access to compliance and provides the best legal and enforceable mechanism to ensure removal of the access at the time which the facility is limited access what is the current development plan allow for this site yeah so this is a 1996 development plan that allowed only development on the eastern portion of the tract of about a 14 acre parcel which is the trucking company there's no development allowed whatsoever on on the track this before you tonight including no vehicular access as i think mr. Horvath said okay thank you are there any other questions or comments let me ask the staff one question sorry you gotta keep turning around so none of this was presented at the planning commission these proposals and all that i i guess i'm just troubled by the fact that the denial was the strongest it was by the planning commission did they hear the same thing we heard here tonight the the committed element number three that you see before you tonight was modified tonight was was worded differently and was much less strong and what staff represented at that time is we were we were not sure it was enforceable as written at that time so it was a i would say it was a substantially different set of facts in that regard that we couldn't offer any solid representation to the planning commission that there was a solid enforcement mechanism to ensure removal of the driveway at the time of limited access with without compensation and without cost to the city county or state and you feel more comfortable with what's being presented definitely it's much improved okay are there other questions comments anyone else want to speak on this item this being a public hearing matter let the record reflect no one else has to speak i'll declare the public hearing to be closed matters back before the council i have a motion but not a second so i recognize council marvin i'm sorry did you say you had a motion but not a second that's right i'll second it okay and then i have questions all right i just want to i'll comment on the motion that um i i actually was thinking that that um requiring the easement the idea requiring having the easement in hand prior to a building permit certificate occupancy would be my fallback and you've gotten there i'm a little conflicted by the fact that there's a development plan on the entire site we're we're severing off half the site by doing this and letting them do a new um development plan but in looking through the comments from the planning commission most i do see that much of the as staff has said much of the comments have to do with the issues around the access and um so although i have some hesitations i will be voting to approve this tonight for the discussion on the motion if not i'm going to call the question madam clerk will you open the vote close the vote it passes five to two with council mccarty voting no and council member davis voting no thank you uh clerk you have a report oh i we've got to do this other thing i have to keep forgetting about that the park moving second madam clerk we open the vote close the vote the pass seven is zero thank you yes i have a report yeah the citizens advisory committee barry birch received seven votes for appointment mafio mccarahan received five votes for appointment on the bicycling pedestrian advisory commission andrew huttson received four votes for thank you i recognize uh councilman davis i'm sorry do you have some i'm sorry may i have something well since he raised a question i'm recognizing him well i i think the question is is pretty clear i don't know who would be speaking but i just wanted to ask us to not go through this whole meeting and not have any discussion about the amount of um islands that we have seen over the last two to three weeks um some of it um leading to the death of a person by the police department i don't want to put the police department in a position where it has to talk about issues that may be more appropriate to talk about later on but i'd like to hear something about where we are and what we can do um from the police perspective councilman davis if i could first chief lopez is here but uh you know the the there are a variety many in many respects unrelated issues that are have the police department has faced over the last several weeks uh we're definitely not in a position to speak at all about the incident saturday that still is under review and i will be meeting with the police department tomorrow to to review that incident and then uh in preparation for the the five-day report that we we will probably issue later this week which is our standard protocol as it relates to the incident this evening i know chief lopez is anxious to get out on the street with the other group that's out there now we did have a homicide while we were here this evening don't know any of the circumstances associated with that but something that we want to uh you know i'm sure they're uh get some more answers about uh but you know as you know and i know when we see the daily watch reports there have been a has been a variety of uh of incidents many of which are are robberies uh not necessarily uh people being shot although there's been a few of those situations as well uh and i don't know that we have answers for every one of them other than that it is something that is very concerning to the administration as i know it is to you as i know it is to the the police department and in several of those instances arrests have been made the my opinion the level of some of that violence dropped back down after those arrests were made but it is something the police department is is monitoring very closely and has uh as they did in that instance when necessary ramp up the additional resources that are needed to try to respond to that so i think if there are some specific questions that that you have we certainly would be prepared to respond to those to the extent we can but but if it's a longer conversation about strategy and some of those kinds of things that may be more appropriate for a little bit different form but i certainly don't want to you know remove any opportunity for you to ask chief lobe has any question that you have directly well here again i'm not interested in trying to play gotcha uh i am interested in making sure that we don't miss any opportunity to share with the Durham community our outrage and disgust with what is going on and our any future plans we may have to try to bet um or offset some of the things that are going on i also respect the protocol and want to make sure that we give the opportunity and the fairness to everyone involved of particular people in the police department but i did not want this meeting to go forth without the council um sharing and several of us have mentioned some of those things along the way we just need to make sure that the public knows that the city council is concerned as they are about where we are as a city let me i guess i i do need to say something especially in doing my remarks earlier about violence in this community my comments relative to violence in the community are really related to the data that's available publicly and when i spoke about the fact if i looked at the balance for hundred thousand residents in 2001 compared to where we are today there has been a decrease that decreases probably 15-18 percent a little bit more people with the numbers the same thing for property crime if you look at where property crime for a hundred thousand people were in 2001 versus where it is today at the end of 2014 i shouldn't say today because that's the way the data in 2014 is down but that to me by no means diminishes the fact that we've got violence in our community and when i say i think about it every day i do it's on account of when i'm with the manager every Wednesday in fact this incident that happened Saturday and i don't normally go out to crime scenes i went out to this crime scene because of what i heard and i obviously couldn't get into it but i thought maybe if some residents were around they'd be able to share some information but i guess another piece that disturbs me at a when i look at the reports that we receive i look at who the suspects are and i look at who the victims are when i look at the race when i look at the ages it tends to be 16 years of age the 30 years of age and i was just thinking the other day i've been in this office going on 14 years so a kid that is at 16 that's in he was two years old and when you look at somebody that's 30 that person was 16 years old you know so what if somehow we could have wrapped our hands around these young people at that age or those ages and somehow move them in a different path who we'll be looking at so i think this community's really got to think about it it's not just a law enforcement piece you know you gotta be looking at these young kids out here and what i didn't say uh the majority of them are African-American males so somehow we've got to find a way to to deal with that so when i was i wasn't trying to be facetious when i said solutions but that's that's where it's happening and we've got to find a way where to deal with it and you know you might not like the fact that i say violence is down and you just had had another homicide and but i recognize that if you are victim it doesn't mean anything about statistics it doesn't mean anything and i appreciate that but it's it's not just a law enforcement piece i recognize the mayor pro term and for years and years you have asked the community individuals in the community to mentor our young people and how many of us have done that so we need the community has to do something we've got to do something to help our people whether it's through the church or our individually touching people we've got to do it the police can't do it all and and that's a fact i've seen the deterioration of the family unit uh there are kids who don't have hope their parents are here they are here they're angry and so something needs to be done in this society to help change this uh in addition to that citizens must build free to report what they've seen they've got to report to the police what's happening in their neighborhoods anything that i see in my neighborhood that looks strange i am reporting in fact um something well i'll talk about that on at the work session uh about dog poop but uh i mean you have to report it things are changing in the society and we've got to deal with it we've got to deal with it we have got to deal with it it's it's not just a policing problem it is a society problem a family deterioration problem a lack of hope problem and so we've got to touch somebody each of us has to touch somebody and that's just my two cents well first for back to councilman davis is there anything else no uh i just my comments were not personal at all and i'm not accusing anyone certainly no one on this panel um of anything other than the fact that we need to make sure that the entire community recognizes that it is a responsibility for all of thank you okay any other arguments come before the council we're adjourned at 9 28 p.m. thank you