 ADC suspends presidential candidate Dumebe Kachiku and would draw a nomination of alleged APC members as INEC Rex Seraptel's Bahari. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anna Kohn. The African Democratic Congress ADC has suspended its presidential candidate Dumebe Kachiku, accusing him of making a false misguided and defamatory video among other infractions. The party also considered Kachiku's action as crass irresponsibility, gross in discipline, and completely unfit for someone who wants to be president of Nigeria. Now in a statement released to Newsmen in Abuja, the party said the decision was taken after an emergency national working committee meeting which was held on Friday, September 2. Joining us to discuss this is Ezekiel Nyaito, he is a governorship candidate with the ADC in Aqaibom state and Maikala Chimugu, who is a media consultant. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us today, Maikala. Great. I start with you Mr. Nyaito because you are of course a party man and of course you are holding the ticket for the party in your state. It's incredible that other political parties are gearing up for campaign season because from the 28th everybody will roll out the drums for their campaign but then your party seems to be at loggerheads with its presidential candidates. What exactly is going on here? Again thanks for having us and if I was not in the middle of everything that's going on I'd be very confused because there's so much disinformation, misinformation and all sorts of things going on. What ADC is going through is what I would call the challenges of success. You would realize that leading to the primary of the ADC or the national convention that we had, ADC had 12 presidential candidates and there were not just 12 as per numbers, there were 12 as per quality and we had the likes of Professor Kingsley Moralu, we had the likes of Moinye Chupuka, we had the likes of Dumebe Kachiku and Joy Asaka. These were people or these are people who on their own rights have made their marks on the sands of time with respect to their professional standings nationally and internationally. And Dumebe Kachiku came up more politically savvy, I wouldn't say better but more politically savvy and got the ticket it was like wow because we didn't see this coming. Now arising from that there's been a lot of challenges because each of these four people at least that I mentioned not to talk of the others, they had their own followers, they had their own people and this was the first time that ADC was going through this sort of situation as opposed to other big parties that are used to dealing with this. ADC has always moved on its quiet land but on a steady land. Now that brought a lot of conflicts that we've been trying all along to manage. At the end of the day there were people that in my opinion worked on the vulnerability of the new entrant in the party and that created a friction between the candidate, the presidential candidate on one hand and the NWC headed by the chairman expectedly. Now we've been trying to hold this and it so happened that the presidential candidate believed that at the end of the tunnel of the current NWC they would have a new membership or a new NWC headed by a new chairman. So when the NWC extended the tunnel by one extra year he was incensed, he was like no this is an illegality, he felt unhappy and he said no this has to be stopped, this must not be allowed to continue. Now the issue is, is it an illegality or is it something not expedient where he would rather have a partial fate and somebody that could resonate more with him in going into the campaigns. He feels that he needs to have all the machineries put in place properly before he takes off his campaign and people have been seeing others do this or do that without sitting down to understand the current electoral law where you have a minimum of two months before another six months before the election and to him the first two months present him an opportunity to do in-house cleansing and then thereafter he would not be able to launch a campaign on a pedestal and on a tempo that he would be able to sustain. Is it the job of a presidential candidate to do a cleansing for the party because it now sounds to me from what you're saying that the party is at the whims and caprices of your presidential candidate, why should he be wielding that much power? You see, there's got to be a balancing. Without a solid backbone, you cannot launch a sustainable campaign. You can't. You can't. Without a solid backbone. But you see, you know, the Bible says all things are lawful but not all things are expedient. It is the wisdom from experience on how to handle this and the party has not been used to such a thing. So it's a system shock that the party is trying to come into terms with to handle it. Each of the sides has a point and I can say this because I stand right in the middle. I've been a friend of the national chairman for over almost 30 years on one hand and I am the person that brought Mr. Kachipo into the party. So I stand between the two of them. I can speak authoritatively about the two of them. Mr. Chairman, you know, Mr. Ngo Su, Mr. Chief Raves Ngo Su, he has a heart for the party and it's like a baby he's not child for 17 years. He wants to see it go right. On the other hand, Mr. Kachipo is a man, he's a go-getter and he puts his house in order and gets things done before he moves on. So each of them has a point. What we need now is the wisdom to bring the two and say this is now a marriage. You can have it your way this way or that way and that politics is a game of compromise, a game of understanding, a game of making, you know, concessions, so that this is where we are right now. So what is being blown really out of proportion in a sense is something that we will be able to put together. Each side has a point. Mr. Kachipo does not want the illegality to be perpetuated, but the end of you saying no, it's not an illegality. It's this way. Maybe as we advance in the discussion, we'll be able to see all the sides of the divide. Interesting. Michael, you used to be a member of this party. You were working with a presidential aspirant on the platform of the ADC. Now, to understand what Mr. Inetok is saying about, you know, some sort of shock or internal cleansing, again, I ask, if this is, I mean, every political party does have a constitution and a modus operandi. Is there anywhere in the party's constitution where it talks about the powers that the presidential candidate will in terms of cleansing the party again? What do you stand on all of this? I know that you no longer are a member of the political party, but then you were there when, you know, before the presidential primaries and before everything went downhill. Talk to me. Yeah, correction. I wasn't a member of the party. I was media consultant to Professor Mowaru until the end of June. I do not agree with a few things that Mr. Inetok has said. First of all, the party keeps banning figures that they had 12 presidential candidates, a presidential aspirant is one who has both the nomination for reform and expression of interest. How many of the 12 persons they keep talking about actually go to stick it? When he said he referred to quality where he ended up mentioning only three or four names himself, you know. I am also aware that one of the two called aspirants also gave them a bounce check, which, honestly, is even a criminal offense. And I don't think this is something for the political party to ban him around and be proud of. It's not about the owner. Secondly, he said that the party has never had this kind of situation. He has always, he's fully moved on from, you know, some of these situations. I disagree. The last time out, when the gentleman, Lafya Obadiah was the presidential candidate of the ABC, he also called out the chairman of the party. He ended up, you know, so there's a pattern here. The national chairman, as you see, I must apologize in advance. Everything I say here to talk about the national chairman, I would challenge him to take me to court because he has proven that he's a roadside liar, you know, who thinks himself as a political strategist and can deceive everybody. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I would allow you to call the chairman a liar on air because he's not here to defend himself. And on what grounds would you be terming him or tagging him a liar? Why? Why would you tag him a liar? Yes. Of course, you are the media. I believe that he'll get a chance to speak to himself here, you know. Number one, before the primaries at Bioputa, the party had issued a communique that all aspirants should not deal financially directly with the delegates and that they should donate against the 10 million error each to the party to take care of accommodation and transportation. It was on the eve of the primary that Officer Kingsley Moore had found out that that arrangement was not valid to date. That money has never been refunded all of the 10 million error. In fact, the campaign DG to the presidential candidate of the party did tell me not too long ago that they were, they refused to give that 10 million error to the party because they realized that the 12 man was going to embezzle that money because he had embezzled a previous 33 million error they had given to him for state congresses, you know. And so they made, they were allowed to make their own arrangements, you know, separately from the official arrangement. Professor Kingsley Moore and Lou was never committed such an efficient, you know. So at the end of the week, everybody became frantic. Personally, on the eve of the election, I spent 6 million error, you know, trying to get secure hotel accommodation. It was even quite late, you know, because we others already have free knowledge and have already dealt with the situation beforehand. Nobody told Professor Kingsley Moore and Lou these things. And very, very importantly, I must let the world know today that two weeks before that primary, the chairman demanded from Professor Kingsley Moore and Lou the sum of 500 million error so that he could buy the ticket. Again, these are allegations that we cannot verify. You do not have proof. Do you have proof? We'd like to see that proof because you have anybody can make any claim on TV. But then again, he's not here to defend himself. So as far as I'm concerned, these are just mere allegations. Well, you can give it the name appellation that you like, but I will say these things and like I say, challenge him to take me off if this is not true. So he demanded 500 million of the proof and because Professor Kingsley Moore will say that it goes against his ethics to buy a ticket, he said, no, why not allow this election road if I do win the ticket, then I can make an official donation to the party to help the party into the campaign. But I should write the ticket. I'm not going to do that. And Mr. also did tell me by himself that because Koff refused that, so he decided because he was going to influence the NWC and qualify the other aspirants. But because of that refusal, would you blame anybody who says that he has sold it to the ISB that after just yesterday here on another TV station, the chairman of the party's chairman, that is the chairman of the previous chapter of the ADC, said on national television that the chairman demanded the same thing of Dumebika Chikuo as well. In fact, that he had begun from two billion naira and came down to 500 million naira. So even the persons that the chairman himself has previously, you know, seemed to be on a good stand and with are coming out to make some allegations. Staying with allegations, Mr. Yaito, of course, Michael, we're going to bring you a clip of the presidential candidate of the ADC. And he had a couple of allegations yet again against the chairman of the party. Let's take a listen. Second of this party, my mandate is not negotiable and the mandate of any candidate in this party will not be negotiated. In newspaper, I will mention a news medium which out to me sometime last month asking me that they understand my words to negotiate with a party. And upon investigating, I found out that my party had started the same process of trying to negotiate. And I will tell you now what they did. When I was submitting the name of my vice presidential candidates, I had them 24 hours to beat the deadline. I sent the name to the party. And on Friday, which was the last day to submit the name, I found out two hours to the deadline that the party was trying to substitute the name of my vice presidential candidate with the name of another person. When I found out, I called the national chairman to ask why this was being done. And he hung up the phone. He had no explanation. So I made clear to the party leadership that they then also tried to substitute that name. Eventually, my vice presidential candidate was forced to party some money to people in the party before his name was submitted to ILE. In week later, this same chairman came to me and bended his apologising and saying that he made the mistake and people misled him. We had a meeting with the NWC here in my office. And in that meeting, I said to them that a problem I got from my trip, I will announce the campaign council of the name of the campaign DG. I voted the flight to Dubai that day as I allowed to buy a certain media that the same law also has announced a campaign DG without consulting me. This campaign DG is the same person he wanted to use as a presidential candidate. You will wonder why were they desperate to have a hold on me on the campaign. If you want to sell a candidate, if you have a presidential candidate, you can have him pull out of any myth and destroy that candidature. And that's why they wanted to do it that way. Seeing they could not do that, they wanted to hold on to my campaign and force a campaign DG on me. And I made it clear to them that that would never happen. So this is what is going on within the party. I want to make very clear to members of the republic and to my party faithful. Under my watch as presidential candidate of this party, this party will not enter into any alliance or any trading of a mandate of any member of this party. So those people who are in the habit of doing these deals in the party of parties like mine, they should know that within this party it will never happen. A lot of candidates have reached out to me pleading with me to protect their mandate and I am letting them know that their mandate will be protected. So Mr Yatuk, I'm sure that you both gentlemen have seen and heard what Mr Klatikou has said again this is another allegation yet again on the party's national chairman. And I'm wondering to myself Nigerians are supposedly, well you're supposedly selling yourself to Nigerians as a different option, something different from what we see in the different, the bigger political parties. But here we are dealing with the same kinds of issues that people are trying to get away from. What does this say about the ADC in its entirety? Party chairman and of course the candidature. You see I am contesting election on the platform of the ADC. I have something at stake. So I'm not just coming here as a commentator and please my brother and as far as if somebody was indicated in interest to run for an office that's what it is. Okay and aspirant is somebody who has indicated interest to run for an office. You become a candidate when you have won the ticket. Before then you are just an aspirant, somebody who aspires to. That's just what it is. You have to talk about when you have approached a party and you have consulted them but that's not where we are right now. Let me say this and I want to be extremely what the word careful because I have a stake on where we are today. The presidential candidate of our party, Mr. Dumebe Kachikou, does not want to condone any act of illegality. He believes that the tenor of the current NWC has come to an end. He believes that and that anything done to the contrary would be a contravention of the constitution of the party. That is on the one hand. On the second hand he's gotten information, intel, true or false, that the arm moves to sell the party which is the stocking trade of so many parties especially in smaller parties and he's leaving about it and it's understandable and to him he must do everything humanly possible to protect his mandate. That is on his side. On the side of the national chairman he feels that we've come to a point that the national convention we had item 18 as the change of batting of the current NWC. Unfortunately that convention went up to pre-AM and as a result we could not get to item 18 and have been in the process of getting that change done because the tenor of the current NWC was expiring. So in the process there is a chairman who says let's not have a vacuum, let us see what can be done and they take a position and a step and there is a presidential candidate who says no that step is an illegality I will not take it let it be done properly because if it is an illegality indeed then who so ever submit any document to INEC even if INECs accept those documents there is going to be a situation where anybody can go and on litigation and nullify the possible you know position of assuming by the grace of God he emerges as the winner of the presidential elections so he's got to make sure that everything that is done is done within the ambit of the law and of the constitution and this is only simply responsible and expected of somebody who wants to be a president. So you see all these issues of Mr. there's a way you inadvertently cast asparsion on yourself and your capacity to make choices and decisions. I know that this thing is not a clear cut case I'm not going to stand here and cast to get any of this to you because in the next one week or two I may have either a chairman, a beauty chairman, an elder of the party or somebody in person of Mr. Moore. So you're saying that you would not call out anybody because you're talking about illegalities here there've been allegations of monies exchanging hands asking for monies illegally there've been cases of people pointing fingers I mean just as Michael said your party man has been on TV claiming that monies have been stolen or monies were received by your national chairman but you're not going to call out that illegality because you feel that because you think that you have a stake what is what's the what's the future of that state sir if it's belts on illegality I'm just curious if it does it's simple go to court why come on national television to cast asparsions on the presidential candidate that he wants to sell the mandate or that the chairman is a fraud and that's not I will not do that on a national television if I have evidence that somebody is a fraud I take him to exece or to court on the other hand I will not come here and say that my presidential candidate does not have the right to protect his mandate and make sure that everything that is done is such that his mandate is protected on the long run we've got to pay down on the speculations okay and if you really think that this thing has gone why don't you go to court okay let me come to national television to I understand it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't sound good Michael let me sounds like good news but but not not them yeah it doesn't help anybody let's bring Michael into this conversation Michael just to wrap up this conversation um I I'm I'm getting mixed mixed reactions from missing ita but he said these issues ought to be settled in private um and it's not necessary to bring it to national tv um but then I'm going back to the illegality aspect I remember having a guest right after the presidential primaries of the ADC somebody from the Electoral College of Nigeria did say that it was very embarrassing that monies exchange hands and that whoever emerged to become the candidate was not did not emerge legally well if that's the subject please just one question no no no no no no just a question a little question a little question please help me ask the consultant if he's aware that at the primary monies change hands just a little question well I asked the questions here so um Michael going forward because again there seems to be a loss of you know allegations and counter allegations fixed finger pointing and it seems like nothing really um will come out of this because of course the presidential candidate has said he will protect his mandate um the the chairman is I mean he was on twitter trolling uh the presidential candidate there are people who also seem to be on the side of the chairman there are people who seem to be on the side of the candidate a house divided against itself can it stand well um even the devil has his own followers and adherents uh in our life is not wrong with that um I do not envy Mr. Yaito's position like he says he has a stake but also he must realize that you know um but things happen when good people refuse to speak there are certain issues that it is wrong when you spit on a fence but I understand you know he's a candidate on the platform of the party when he speaks about dealing with these issues of um national television he must also remember that he belongs in a party that the first thing they always do both the candidate and the party leadership is wrong of either social media or television we are only lookers they bring these issues to us and so we will make comments when necessary yesterday is the first time in my life that I will see the chairman of the party not state chairman the national chairman of the party come on social media you know to troll his candidates and even ask us to go and google the name of the baby in fearing that his candidate is some sort of fraudster it is wrong but I'm here honestly to the very drama because this chairman and his party have have done a lot of this wrong I want the most you know I don't know I want to care for the words that I use basically to never accept this possibility when they do wrong and this is a chairman who has invited me to his office twice after after Marie and I sat down listening to him looked him in the eye and one thing I will say boldly anywhere is that the man is not an honest person okay also it is funny to see a candidate of the party taking control of the party there's so much dictatorship here there's so many question marks around the ADC right now what we're hoping yeah we're hoping that these questions will be answered in no time and just as Mr. Nyaituk said let's hope that when you have those meetings behind closed or something positive comes out of it gentlemen that's our time is he going to with the governorship candidate of the ADC in our tribal states and my colleague is a media consultant thank you so much gentlemen for being part of this conversation thanks for having us all right great we'll take a quick break and when we come back well syrup is urging Mr president to not approve of course the alleged nomination of members of his party as resident intellectual commissioners will be right back