 Good morning and welcome to my show Moments with Melinda. My guest today is Mick Lee. Hi Mick, how you doing? Hey Melinda, good to see you. It's so good to see you my friend, it's been a while. It has. It sure has. Well let me introduce you quickly to my viewers. Mick Lee is a musician, songwriter, singer, and author of Undiscovered Dinosaur. Adventures with Rock Legends of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Undiscovered Dinosaur, is that you? That's me. You're the undis... That's a pretty good description of what I am. I don't know, I don't think you're much of a dinosaur. You're such a rock and roller. And you move pretty fast too Mick. You don't leave much of a trail, that's for sure. So I want to thank you for being on my show. I really appreciate it. And I did a lot of research and there's a lot of great stuff out there about you. But I want to start by talking a bit about your growing up in New York City and how you've got into music. Yep. New York City was my town. I love New York City. I was a big Yankee fan, my dad just took me to Yankee games. And there was something about the atmosphere of New York City in the 50s. There was just, you cut it with a knife. It was awesome. And I remember it really well considering it was a while ago. And my mom was a stay-at-home mom. And she was bored so my dad brought home a guitar that one of his clients made. Forbade me to play it. I wasn't allowed to touch it. But my mom took pity on me because I was very curious. She had a clothes cupboard that was about four feet wide and six feet deep. And she would take me into her clothes cupboard and show me a few cords. You know, on the cute T kind of thing. And then eventually my dad found out and it was all good. And I would bring out the guitar after family dinners. You know, we used to have a lot of family dinners. I'd bring out the guitar and I tortured them with, you know, we've got to sync the Bismarck or add the songs that were around in those days. And you know, my family were very intelligent. And that's how I got started. I must have been about, I guess it was nine or 10 years old. Very cool. So you were self-taught? Yeah, pretty much. My mom showed me like three or four cords. And you came from a musical background because your mom was also a singer, right? She was. She was a singer and a dancer in the West End in London. She was pretty good. Well, you know, talk to us. Is a great story about you, of you playing in Rappallo, Italy at the age of 12 and then going back and then 20 years later. Tell us that story. It's a great story. That was very cool. I have to say my dad was also a musician. He was pretty good pianist and had a really good voice. So both sides of the family, you know, we had music. Yeah. So one year we moved to London when I was 12. Both my parents had grown up in London. So we moved back to London, which was very traumatic for me. But one of the good things was we went on vacation to Rappallo in Italy. And there was a cafe there, a cafe restaurant right on the seafront. And my brother, who's four years younger than I, we used to sit in with the band. The guitarist would let me borrow his electric guitar, which is great. And my brother would sing harmonies and everybody loved us. We were two American kids who were singing in Italian. You know, you want to get to Italians. That's the way to do it. You know, and it was you know, all those kind of goofy songs from the 60s. Um, so anyway, that was that. And then about 20 years later, my brother was on tour with Eric Cropton. He was a tour manager. And they had a day off and he and Cropton, some of the band went to Rappallo and had lunch at this restaurant where he and I used to play. And Dave mentioned it to the waiter. He said, you know, my brother and I used to play here. And the waiter looked at him and he said, Dave, Michael and David? He recognized him after 20 years. And the owner came out. All the waiters came out and they made a big fuss of Dave. And he's sitting next to Eric Cropton, who they completely ignored. Had no idea who Cropton was. I'm making a big fuss of Dave that Cropton got a huge laugh out of this. He was cracking up laughing. It was really funny. It's a great story, Mick. It's a great story. I love it. So you did mention that you did move to London, which was quite traumatic for you when you were 12. But you started the band, The Collegiate. And you played for Princess Margaret at a charity function. Talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah. That was our big claim to fame. It was a benefit for the Imperial Cancer Society and something. And she was the patron. And she had quite a reputation back in the day, Princess Margaret. So anyway, I think we played about a 40-minute set. Then afterwards, this guy came backstage and he was saying how wonderful we were. He wanted to take over our management and he was going to make us the next Beatles and all this stuff, none of which, of course, happened. But it was my first taste of music, business and nonsense. That's put it that way. You know what I mean? There's a wonderful book about a manager in the music business. And the first sentence is, hello, he lied. And the music business in three words, hello, he lied. What's that mean? Well, how can you lie when you're saying hello? Any kind of manager or anyone on the business side of things says something to you. You have to take it with a pinch of salt. I was very fortunate in that the managers that I had were all, they were all honest with me. None of them tried to diddle me, but they were all busy with bigger acts. One of my managers worked with Tina Turner and Paul McCartney. He's actually out on tour with Paul McCartney now. They're in Australia. He's 83 and he's out on tour with Paul McCartney. That's fascinating. So, Mick, you dropped out of school at 17. And in a short time, you got connected to Chris Wood. And Chris Wood played with traffic, which is Stevie Winwood's band. Talked us a little bit about dropping out of school. Why did you drop out of school? Did you ever get your graduate degree from high school or not? Obviously, you didn't need it if you were a talent and musician maybe, but and then shortly after that, you're connected with one of the lead musicians with Stevie Winwood band traffic. Talk to us about that. What motivated you to leave school? Why did you leave school? I wound up actually getting a BA years later. You did. That's right. I read about that. I did. Yeah, I got a BA. Good for you. But the way I met Chris Wood was very bizarre. I was in the west end of London. I was crossing a busy street. And there was another long hair leaning up against traffic light. So he said hello as I crossed the road. And I said, hey, I can tell he was American. So we got chatting and it turned out we were both American musicians in London. You know, so we're just comparing notes. After less than five minutes, he said, don't have to know I can get some weed to you. And I said, yeah, as a matter of fact, I had a friend around the corner. He peeled off 300 bucks in here. He's just met me on the street corner. As I'm staying at Chris Wood's house, and he gives me the address, it's just around the corner. Can you grab us an ounce and bring it around the house? But sure, I doubted that it was Chris Wood, but I went out. I went and got the weed. I walked over then, sure enough, it was Woody's house. So we got high and we started talking and he was asking me about what kind of music I made. And after about a half an hour, we're all sitting there stoned. He said, come up to the studio. Let's see what you got kind of thing. Woody was very relaxed. He was a great guy. I loved him, brother. So we just started jamming and that was it. After that, I was there almost every day for a long time. We became really close friends and we did some recording together. His house was Musician Central. Give you an idea. I'm sitting there listening in the studio one night to some stuff that we recorded that day. Long hair walks in and leans up against the wall with a red kerchief listening. And when the tape ended, I turned it off and he says to me, you know, I really like that. That's really good. He said, next time you go in the studio, give me a call. I like coming and private with you. I had no idea who the guy was, but I figured if he's at Woody's house, he must be able to play. Right? I said, sure, no problem. I went next door into the living room and I said to Woody, there's a long hair with the red kerchief. He wants to come to the studio with us and play. He looked at me and says, Paul Kossoff, Nick. Paul Kossoff with the guitarist in three was on the best known guitarist in Britain. Wow. And still today, he's considered one of the great guitarists of all time. What a great story. What a great story. Awesome. I became like brothers. You know, we played together for years. So were your parents supportive of you dropping out of school and becoming a, and hooking up with all these at the time, up and rising rock bands? Did they support your endeavors? My dad thought I was crazy. You know, he said, you've got to have a job, you know, and I actually tried for a few months. I went to work in his office and then he realized I wasn't cut out for business. What did he do? What did your dad do? He had an import-export company. Okay. He imported things. My mom was very supportive because she had been a, you know, a dancer and a singer and what have you. And they, and she knew you had talent. She, probably your father did too. My dad eventually became a big fan. Good. Good. He's the like my song, the songs that I wrote, but it took a while. And you know, I was a wild child. I probably didn't start, said, I bumped around Europe playing music from the time I was 17 until around 24. I began to grow up. I was about 20. That sounds like all of us. I mean, I'm 73 and I'm still haven't grown up. So there's something about, I mean, Mick, you and I are about, I think I'm a little older than you by about a year, but I think there's something about our generation that there is this child that lives within us because we had to be so serious. And we were so serious back growing up with the Vietnam War and everything that was going on in our, there's certainly a lot more going on with our children's lives now, which we're going to talk about in a bit. So let's segue to the years. What brought you to Vermont? You spent 20 years in Vermont where you became the sports director. I didn't know you were into sports, but obviously- No, not the sports director. The sales director. Oh, you became the sales director. I'm sorry. Well, that makes all the sense in the world. I was like, sport. So, but it does say sports in something I read about you, but you were the sales director, which makes all the sense. Because I think you could sell anything to anybody at Clear Channel in Burlington, Vermont. So what brought you here? Talk to us a little bit about that, about coming to Vermont. Right. My ex had custody of our child at the time. Moved back to Vermont, and I thought it was like three and a half, four years old. And I wasn't going to miss her growing up. So I had a completely other career that went kind of alongside my music career as a Gestalt therapist. I had trained as a Gestalt therapist. Talk to my viewers very quickly about Gestalt just for a second. Go ahead. It's about group management. Gestalt is about process and how to help people in a group get the point where they can help each other. Okay. That's really what it's about. Good. So you worked at Stardust and you moved to Vermont to be near your daughter's smart move. Go on. I couldn't go back on the road as a musician because I wanted to be around for my daughter. I had to reinvent myself, basically. And a friend of mine worked in radio. And I had started producing radio jingles. I had to do something. So I was writing and producing radio jingles for local businesses, you know. And this friend of mine said, look, you know how to write and produce ads. Why don't you try selling radio? So I got a job with WISN to begin with. And I found that the fact that I could write and produce advertising differentiated me from all the other salesmen. You know, they were going in and telling clients, we've got the best radio stations and the most listeners. I went in and I asked them a bunch of questions so that I found out what made their business different. And then I would produce an ad or at least a script. I'm going to say, this is how I think we should promote your business. I didn't say a word about my radio station. You became an ad, you became an ad man. A mad man, an ad man. Yeah, a mad man. Yeah, you could say that. I was never very far from being a mad man anyway, but as you know well. As I know. Yeah. So anyway, this, as I say, differentiated me from the other salespeople. And I became very successful because I was selling ideas. And they were valuable to people. And when they worked, my clients made money. You know, within a few years, I was a sales manager and training other salespeople in how to do this. And my Gestalt skills, my group management skills, a huge help to me. So I was using my writing and production skills for musicians and producing the ads. And I was using my group management skills as a manager. And if I say so myself, I'll begin. That's how I enjoyed myself. It was fun. That's outstanding. So I know that while you were in Vermont, you played your music because you played a couple times down here on the Meadow. Share with my viewers some of the experiences that you had playing with so many of the local musicians in Vermont, many of them who are still here in their 70s making music. Talk to us a little bit about that experience with some of the locals. That you played with. One of the things I've been very fortunate with and blessed by one day is that when I went traveling, when I left London again to Vermont, it was the first time. I had this good fortune to run into these amazing players. You know, Burlington's not a huge town. It's a fairly small city. But the first week I was there, I ran into some musicians. We're world-class players. And who would mention some of their names? I'm sure they might be watching this. Ron Ross was the first one that I met from the New Nile Orchestra. Ron's a fabulous player. In the New Nile, we're well-known up and down the East Coast. Euflugiel Dane was an actually Ethiopian musician who fronted the band. And we just became great friends. And to run, Ron knew every musician in Vermont. And then, I mean, I've had a bit of bad cold moments. Anyway, through him, I met Gus Zeissing, who plays in Mango Jam, to have a recording studio. So, of course, I had to go into the studio and record the songs I was writing, you know. And a good friend of mine. Do you know what? I'm going to stop you just for saying because I just want you to know that Gus Zeissing was my first tenant one of my oldest and first tenants at Main Street Landing in the Union Station up in that little studio in the corner on the third floor, my first tenant. So, Gus, we love you, Gus. Okay, continue. Yes. Continue. I spent hours in Gus's studio driving him crazy, you know. Gus played on a lot of my stuff as well as he played sax, sometimes drums, you know. Great guy, Gus. Emily. Anyway, I had a friend at the time who was managing Cheryl Crow. He had interested me. He had started working with Cheryl when she was a Michael Jackson's man. And I went and visited them on the pad tour. He introduced me to Cheryl. Cheryl and I did some singing together. Our voices went really well together. And she asked me to write us a duet about to get a record deal. She said, well, excuse me. As I was writing songs, I'd go into Gus's studio, record them, and I'd send them to Scooter managing Cheryl in case he could get covers. Get other artists to record them, which made a nice, you know, side income. So, Vermont, going back to Vermont, since this is a Vermont show, are you in touch with any of the musicians that were still here playing music? Do you ever... We stay in touch on Facebook. You do stay in touch. Yes. So, to all of the musicians out there who've played with you, I hope you're watching this and you remember those days. So, why did you leave Vermont? What took you away from Vermont? What took you away from Vermont, Mick? Before we get that, I just want to say something about Big Joe Burrell. Oh, good. Oh, Big Joe Burrell, of course. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. My first weekend in Vermont was the jazz festival. And Big Joe Burrell in the unknown blues band. I thought I got to go see them. They got a great name, you know. Some at the bar having a drink and Big Joe walks up to me and we get talking. Then I was a musician. And he said, Black stage would make me. So, okay. And just before they went back, honey, he invited me to sit in with them. The next song. So I said, great, let's do God Bless the Child, which is what we did. Paul Aspel was the guitarist in that band. Paul starts playing a solo. Big Joe walks over to me on stage, throws his arm around my shoulder and says, I hear you. I hear you. And ever after, whenever I want to see them, he always in there. That's beautiful. What a great story. Paul and I interviewed Paul for my show, just what a great guy. I mean, all these musicians are still here. They're still playing music. So you left Vermont and I believe you went to New Orleans and you ended up settling in North Carolina. But before we get there, you talked to me a bit about the work of the Findhorn Foundation and how you got involved as a professional counselor and transformational coach. Yes. The Findhorn Foundation is a a UN affiliate. And that's where they started talking to plants, meditating with plants back in the 60s. They started growing these 40 pound cabbages, you know. And the BBC found out about it and they sent a spit of sandy soil on the northeast Scottish coast. So the BBC went up and filmed their gardening work, which is very unusual. And from that TV documentary, it became famous all over the world. He became the visit from all over the world. And a big part of their work was group work, transformational group work. And spiritual work, both of which were things that I had been deeply immersed in. So I wound up running workshops foundation and meeting people from all over the world. It was wonderful. I had a really good time. That's very cool. So we're going to move into, I could talk to you for hours, but we're going to move into, because we're coming down to the last third of our show. I want to talk to you about your memoir, Undiscovered Dinosaurs. What inspired you to write it? And talk to us a little bit about your book. You know, I had, I made a living on the road as a musician for almost 20 years. I was very fortunate, had a lot of lucky breaks, but record companies did not like what I did because it was very eclectic. For example, Sting lived not far from me. Used to go out running the same hills, Sting and I. So I had a tape of some of our songs messaged it over to him. He listened to it on his way to do a radio interview. And he liked it so much that he talked about us in the radio interview. A wonderful, Mick Lee and his band were. He called me after the interview. And I went to see him at his gig that night backstage at the Albert Hall. And he said, to me, bring me another tape tomorrow. I'm going to give it to my manager. I'd like to produce your band. I'd ask him, but great. So that same friend who went out managing Sherrod Crowe was a pure guy on that tour. He overheard Sting talking to his manager and he called me and said, Sting's going to do what he wants to, you know, produce your band. Three days later, I get a call from the head of an art, his record label, the record. Am I allowed to use the F word? Probably not. Okay. And but maybe not. I don't know. Then Mick, I don't give a lusty F. What Sting thinks? I told my CEO that if he signs the band over my head, leaving it, I'm taking my fans with me. Even though Sting said they were here, I couldn't. Wow. I'm so sorry about that, but let's go back to your book. I want to, because we were talking about it at the time, I only have six minutes left. So talk to, I want to talk to you about Muhammad Ali. And I have other things I want to talk to you about. Anyway, that was why I wrote the book. Okay. That's why you wrote the book. Okay. To get all the things that you wrote. Okay. To get all this history out about your life. Sitting in me and I had to get it out somehow. Well, I'm glad, well, I'm glad you got it out. I want to tell my viewers that it's, I don't know if they can find it locally. This is a Vermont show locally in Vermont, but they certainly, if they want to, can go and get it on Amazon. It's called undiscovered dinosaurs. And I want to send those single undiscovered dinosaur. Sore. Undiscovered dinosaur. Yeah. So that's my bad here. I'm thinking all the musicians that you worked with were the undiscovered. Okay. So anyway, I want to send my viewers to your website, which is Mick Lee, which is M-I-C-K-L-E-E, music.com if they want to learn more about you. So let's, so I did read some of your memoir. And one of the things I wanted you to talk about, because I thought it was such an inspiration was meeting Muhammad Ali and his impact on you and about his speech, the real cause of man's distress. Can you share that with us, Mick? Muhammad was like a guru of mine. I really appreciated, hey, how good he was at what he did, how hard he worked, and that he shared his good fortune with poor people. He wasn't satisfied just to make millions of dollars. He wanted to help less fortunate people. One thing he said I really liked was the rent you pay for your time here on earth is your service to others. Service to others is the rent you pay for your time here on earth. So anyway, I went to see him give a speech, and afterwards I ran into a backstage and this big BV bodyguard who tried to get into Muhammad just scratched him aside. It was a wonderful thing. So Mick, share with me what musicians today, young musicians, you are following in huge music from this young generation are you listening to? I really like Bruno Mars. I think he's doing good work. Lady Gaga, when she does solo piano work, my wife Anna went to see her in Vegas recently. Nominal singer and musician lady. There's a band, I don't know, walk off the earth who are very creative. You know, it's a company out there today. There's so many bands. You can make music. If you have a lot of time, you can make music, you know. Well, and so you're pleased with the future of rock and roll and blues in this country. You feel like there are people that are making great music and you have to look for them, but they're there as you go. Are you surprised at the popularity of Taylor Swift? I mean, Rick loves Taylor Swift. I mean, Rick is 75 years old and he loves her music. And so, I mean, she's just, and she's such an activist for women and for what's right in the world. Are you surprised at her popularity? You know, at first I dismissed her as just another teen idol. Then recently I listened to some of her songs. She can write. So I want to ask you, too, have you seen Barbie? Did you and Anna go see Barbie? Not yet. It is on the list, on the list. Yeah. I mean, you have to, I mean, I don't want to push a movie on my TV show, but it really is, it is a movie that I think everyone should see. So I just wanted to see if you had, because you're such a cool guy. Is she who must be obeyed? So she needs to drag you to see Barbie before it's off. Because you should see it on the big screen. So, Mick, as a deep thinker and a man who cares about bringing people together, I want to ask you what advice you have for our youth today. I believe that your Anna's child and your daughter are all grown up as young adults now. And so what advice do you have for our youth today? My daughter's 35, and she's a cosmologist. She has a PhD in cosmology. Wow. Tell you what I tell her. Everything will be all right in the end. Not all right. It's not the end. Everything will be all right in the end. It's not all right. That means all right. It's not the end. That is very gestalt. Don't you think a little bit? Yeah. I mean, I have tremendous faith in the human race, right on the nonsense that we've heard. The human race is capable of enlightenment. Eventually, I think we'll get to the side. Well, I don't think you and I will live to see it, but I really do hope that humans can. So that's such an interesting ending to our interview, Mick. I can't tell you how happy I am to have spent a little bit of time with you today. And to my viewers again, go to MickLeeMusic.com. Yeah, they'll find music there and a link to my YouTube. So do you ever come back to Vermont? Every once in a while. My traveling days are pretty much done. All right. Well, listen, if you come back to Vermont, you are a bright light and an inspiration. And I've loved knowing you. And certainly, if you come back to Vermont, I hope you'll stop in and visit with me. And to my viewers, you'll see me at the meadow moment. All right. I'll see you on the meadow. I would love that. So to my viewers, thank you for spending time with me and Mick Lee today. It's been such a joy. And I will see you all again very soon. Have a great day, folks. Bye-bye.