 So we have about six participants here right now, but I suspect the number will grow up in about a minute or two. But we have no real way of telling the duty of this is the people who are here are influential like Ron Igor money. So all these are, you know, significant thought leaders. Two things before we start one is the Linux Foundation, and I trust policy we obey that. As far as the current antitrust policy of the next foundation you can find it on the website. The second one is the code of conduct, which is. Basically, something that says that we should be treating each other with respect, even when we are disagreeing, which is always a good thing. So, without waiting too much. I'm going to present here angel. Albin and Marvin Bantigan, who are going to propose a new MBS subgroup, and they will go through the details of MBS and why it is appropriate to put it on the blockchain, so on and so forth. And why it belongs in the greater umbrella of capital markets, which they have started, which they'll start to do but you know they're, they're probably going to spin off if they feel that that is necessary. So they are the co founders of Zeeventus, as you can see from behind angels. Beautiful background there. I don't even know which city that is probably Los Angeles. Okay. Yeah, I should have guessed by the huge spread of low like buildings in the background. Anyway, I leave the presentation to Marvin and Angel. Excellent. Well, good morning. Good afternoon and good evening everybody my name is Angel upon I am the president of Zeeventus. Marvin if we can put the presentation up on the screen. So first I'd like to thank the hyper ledger organization. The pin. Curthy we and Karen, who we met with last week to talk about how we can start a conversation. And more importantly how we could start a mortgage group to bring mortgage professionals from around the world together and start sharing and collaborating to start exploring how we could advance blockchain technologies in the mortgage vertical space. Thank you for that. Next slide. Just to give you a little bit of an intro. I'm based in Los Angeles as you can see from my background. I'm up here feeding the pigeons today. My background is in mortgage banking. I, our team. A bigger team than is represented here today we've all worked at some of the largest mortgage brands around the world. I've had the privilege of living in London and being part of a joint venture with Barclays mortgage for four years. Learned a lot about mortgages, how they operate in different countries in Europe. A little bit in Asia. So there is a lot of similarities in the mortgage world. From a professional standpoint, we're, we're helping people with their biggest investment in their lifetime, which is a home loan. And it's a very personal asset. It's the home. That's where family is. And in many countries around the world, it's multi-generational. So it's a very, very important asset class as well as a very important financial instrument. So with that, I'm just going to hand it over to Marvin to introduce himself a little bit and then we'll get started on the presentation. Thank you. This is Marvin Ben-Tugan. Thank you guys for allowing us to present today. We really do appreciate that this wonderful opportunity to work with you guys. My background is I came from Deloitte Consulting. I started working with Deloitte, working with different international services clients straight out of graduate school. And after Deloitte, I went to go work with a dot com startup back in 2002 called AdState. They were an information security company. Then after that, I went to go work with Countrywide and that's where I met Angel and started our professional relationship and glad to call Angel a friend now as well. So from Countrywide, I think everyone understands the history of Countrywide, I went on to work again back into consulting and then I did a startup called the Closing Exchange, which was an online closing company. And that kind of brings us back to where we're at today with this presentation. So back to Angel. Great. Well, thank you Marvin. So let's go ahead and get started. Next slide. So, thanks Angel. So what we wanted to do on this slide is really just talk about what we want to accomplish within the mortgage subgroup. I'm not going to go over every bullet here. I don't think you guys want to listen to me read all these bullets, but from our attendance at the Hyperledger Global Forum a couple weeks ago, we were very impressed with the community and approach of the Hyperledger team. After that presentation, after that forum, Angel and I got together and we thought that it would be a good endeavor to build a mortgage subgroup with that same ethos in it and of openness and community that you guys have within Hyperledger. And that's really underscored by the fact that you guys open with the values of the Hyperledger community and we wanted to leverage that community as to help implement blockchain technology. And the next couple slides probably slides three through eight. We want to give you guys some some data on the mortgage market. I think Angel talked a little bit about what a mortgage means to the general population, but we wanted to share some data. I think several of the people on this call probably have a mortgage background. I know that has a very strong mortgage background. So that some of this information may not be new, but we can cover it really briefly anyway. So, if you take a look at this slide, you can see that there are over 13,000 financial institutions in the US. That's a significant number and that doesn't even include the third party vendors that help support the mortgage market will cover that on the next slide. The overall size of the mortgage market 11 trillion that is pretty significant. And also on the next slide we'll see that in comparison to the overall economy. So, on this slide, 122 million households in the US so significant population of households that can potentially get a mortgage on the previous slide you saw that there was a significant number of financial institutions 13,000. Add to that 4,500 title companies independent abstractors. These are companies that help support the mortgage so if you add that to you're talking about almost 17,000 companies that support the mortgage market. And then on the right hand side over 8 million new home loans every year. So again, pretty significant side. And I just want to jump in here and we this mortgage subgroup will be an invitation to all participants in the mortgage ecosystem, not just financial institutions, but everybody who participates in that process. Excellent point. Yeah, still within that same ethos of openness and inclusion on this fight against more data. You can see that 11 trillion in terms of the number of outstanding mortgages. Compare that with the latest US GDP forecast of 22.785 trillion. So, the mortgage market is huge half the size of the annual GDP. I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but this kind of shows just how the mortgage originations go on a quarterly basis and then the average 30 year mortgage. I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time talking about interest rates. And then finally, on this slide, this is just some of the information from the MBA, the mortgage bankers association that's the key source for a lot of our data. You can see the GDP growth rate, but really focused down in the last line, total originations in 2020, 3.8 billion, 3.4 billion estimated in 2021 that'll probably come in a little higher. You can see it starts to tail off a bit but really this slide is again just intended to show you guys just the size of the overall mortgage market and some of the relevant data as well. Angel anything you want to add to the mortgage data. So this was some of our research we wanted to share it here. You know, as starting the mortgage subgroup we need to start creating some contacts about the mortgage market we invite others to provide or share research that that is available for sharing. In other countries, we have some research in Europe that we're going to be adding in here as well but we again as as part of this mortgage subgroup, we want to be able to have information that provides the context of the mortgage market the size the players. Then we start want to start drilling into the process and really start providing some some insights. So I think this is a good segue. So I think at this point here what we'd like to do we're not going to get into a lot of detail here, but what we wanted to do is just share with you a little bit from the consumer perspective and a little bit from a mortgage bank operating model perspective. What are some of the challenges in the process. What does that look like, you know how can we learn from this and, and as we continue to learn and start the conversation. And then we start asking the questions you know, where can we apply blockchain, where can we identify POCs, where can we start extending technologies that are blockchain enabled or create new blockchain applications and solutions. Okay, so let's let's look at this a little bit from the US mortgage consumer standpoint right so everybody can shop online for mortgage, you can apply for a loan. Online closing online has been has been increasing in the US over the last couple years primarily driven by COVID to create contact less closing opportunities but we're still probably two 3% of all mortgages are closing online. That figure is expected to close, but from a customer experience this is a major pain point. Next slide. So, at a high level, 8 million loans annually on average right in the US so that's a pretty big number, pretty good scale. As I said, a large majority of these loans are being done still any printing the documents signing the documents shipping the documents, you know all of this creates delays all of this impacts the customer experience, right. More importantly, for the mortgage bank players and the ecosystem, it creates more processes more costs more handoff more verification points. Next slide. So here let's, this is really where we start to talk a little bit about the security instrument right from a capital markets perspective right. So what we really been talking about is the origination of the mortgage right and so this gives you a little bit of insight in terms of who are some of the actors in this process. In the loan origination process there's a lot of handoff points, a lot of verification, a lot of identity checks, a lot of potential for fraud. And so, and so one of the things that happens is the security instruments get created they leave this secured network. And they need to go to the local county recorder's office to get recorded right so so and there's about 3900 county recorders across the US. Some of them are electronically enabled some of them are not so that creates another layer of complexity. Next slide. And so what we're doing here is we're, we're zooming in a little bit, not going to go through this in detail, but the purpose of this slide is just to share with the team here and the broader mortgage group and the capital market groups that the origination of a mortgage is a complicated process. There's a lot of actors in the process, a lot of verification steps. We're talking about obtaining income information from a bar, obtaining their assets, verifying their payment, doing a property inspection doing the valuation, looking at the title looking at the title of the property you know is, are there any leans on the property so a lot of complexity in this process. And so we're going to be using this as a way to start the conversation to identify across the value chain, you know, where are the biggest pain points, and where are the opportunities to start a conversation around blockchain. And Angel, if I can interject, if you guys take a look at this workflow, one of the things that we're also doing is identifying where some of the potential solutions are that may already exist. I'm sure you guys have been seeing a lot of the press releases and notifications about different organizations within the mortgage industry that are implementing different blockchain solutions. And all of those are really interesting across the different process silos that you guys are taking a look at now. So we're going to conduct that inventory and ideally in the long term solution is integrating the different blocks and should be blockchain solutions into a single ecosystem. Great. Thank you, Marvin. Next slide please. So, Dr. Lassidy, many of you guys may know her she was a keynote speaker at the global ledger event. That's when we became aware of the center of excellence that she runs. We're a big fan of her research, we've started reading it, we'd like to schedule a visit and really learn at a deeper level what they're doing there. But I think based on her experience in driving blockchain POC is being a research center being a center of excellence I think she really sums it up really nicely. And how that could be applied to the mortgage industry right and so verifying identities attesting to that authenticity of an asset right. That is really the biggest that is the crux of the mortgage process and we're looking forward to partnering with the doctor and her research group and identifying best practices and how we can cross fertilize. ideas and solutions from her work to the mortgage subgroup. On this slide, it walks you through the relationship between capital markets and the mortgage industry and most of not all of the people on the call should already be pretty familiar with that capital market support the liquidity of the mortgage market through the sale and purchase of mortgage back securities. And it's this relationship that I think we want to leverage in setting up the mortgage subgroup, since mortgages are a key part of the capital markets. I think it definitely makes sense to have mortgage be part of the capital markets, say, as this slide underscores, and then as we continue to grow. We want to exchange information between capital markets and and the mortgage state. The insurance subgroup within capital markets and mortgage so we really want to take advantage of that community that the capital markets big offers, and that's really what the slide is meant to underscore. So on the next one, we talked about the rationale between capital markets and mortgage and here we're starting to think about, okay, where can we take the mortgage subgroup. This could just be the starting point of helping to roll out blockchain with different realtor groups on the lower left hand side, builder blockchain, kind of recorder blockchain, really starting to include the different parties that are part of the mortgage chain we alluded to at the beginning. And what we included here in the upper right is we've already started to identify and I think I mentioned this on earlier slide, some of the different organizations that are already rolling out different solutions. You guys probably heard about fluidity, excuse me, like the mortgage fluidity provenance. Those are some of the other organizations that are already in this space. And I think if we bring them in, they want to participate with this type of community. Yeah, Marvin, that's a great point. I one of the things that I'd like to add to this is just a little bit of some recent news right so we have the mortgage just got issued a patent. They're focusing on blockchain solutions. We have figure and home bridge, a top mortgage bank in the US have merged to start pursuing blockchain technologies to advance mortgages. We have in the title space so if you look down at the bottom right the loan manufacturing vendor ecosystem, we have title companies, first American over public, who are collaborating and looking at blockchain for solutions. On the left side, and you look at the blockchain County Recorder's office. We have the first county in the United States Riverside County, who is working on a blockchain project as well so they're definitely the, there are blockchain initiatives across this entire value chain. Everybody plays a role in this process. There is no central group where the community come together. And that is one of the purposes of the mortgage subgroup is to start creating that awareness, bringing these players together, bringing them into the conversation. And so that we can start exploring blockchain solution so other exciting news that we have on a global front is in Spain. So they're looking to allow mortgage mortgages to be paid by crypto right and so again if anybody has any news around the world regarding mortgages you know please send it our way. One of the things that we want to create is kind of a central place to go to see the developments that are happening around the world. And if we can create that awareness we can start reaching out to those folks and and bringing them into the conversation. Okay, benefits of blockchain. I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on here since most of not all the people on the call already pretty familiar with blockchain. You guys have been working on this for quite a while, and you guys probably already know these benefits you guys are probably already implemented projects related to these benefits and but just really quickly in reduced servicing one of the key aspects. You can see some of the cost in a non performing loan versus performing loan reduced servicing cost via blockchain would help significantly lower that through automation. It's a master easy securitization so again related to capital markets, and then another key aspect is regulatory compliance with transparency, trustless environment, the regulatory compliance becomes a lot easier, and it's significantly lowers that cost. On the next slide we wanted to just dive down a little bit on some of those benefits. So one of the key things that really jump out at us right off the bat on the benefits is those benefits related to smart contracts. So we've heard of organizations that have already taken some of the key aspects of the legal requirement related to mortgages, such as a letter of attorney. One of the things that can be put into a smart contract payments can be put into a smart contract so those are just some of the really obvious examples that can be put into a smart contract but one of the key ways that we can leverage blockchain and help facilitate the mortgage. And another one is, and this is really just focused on the US market, but to angle point we do understand that mortgages are global, maybe not necessarily the same flavor but still the same. I still have some similarities is some of the different aspects of a mortgage can be put into a blockchain use case. It will help simplify the process so you can log on anywhere, any, any time to sign up for a mortgage and facilitate it through that pretty long process review and sign your documents online. This is already starting to happen in the signing space with companies like Dr. and he signed capabilities, and then documents being recorded and delivered to the investor. I think this is one of the key things that we already spoke about. Angel, you want to add anything to that slide. Yeah, if you just go back to it right. So one of the things you know we talked about the mortgage right so Marvin, we talked about the experience right there's so many aspects to this not just the consumer experience but you know what does that mean to business. Right, we want to have a business conversation as well as a technology conversation, and then within those conversations we always want to keep center is the customer experience right and so when we think about blockchain as a use case. It has, we've studied we trade that is up and running by IBM in Europe, and a lot of the, a lot of the goals and objectives of that project to make things secure, make it simple, make it easy. Make it open and accessible, right, all those concepts and applications apply in the mortgage use case right this is a US centric perspective but it really applies on a global basis right. So that's one of the things I just wanted to add. Very importantly, our conversations are going to be around the business that technology, and then the consumer the bar, who is getting those services and the experience that blockchain is going to bring to that and consumer that end user, and how it's going to transform their life, make it easier, make it more secure, make it more transparent. So that's that's what we're looking to do in in this mortgage subgroup we invite everybody to bring their ideas on what the conversation should be. But that's, those are going to be the main conversation points, if you will. So with that, I think our time is done. I want to thank hyper ledger that been her the Karen for helping us get to this point. I think that then we'll turn it over to you, and see if there's any questions or, or how we how would you like to proceed. So thank you everybody, looking forward to this journey. Great. Now, I think the thing to do now is to ask questions. And if anybody has questions, please come forward right now. And in the chat that someone raised the question about commercial mortgages. That's me that's that in an angel if you want to chime in. Oh, okay. That was me. Anyway, okay. And I think angels background is primarily within residential mortgages, but this does not exclude commercial mortgages. I think that that's something that there is some similarities in the process and more importantly, some similarities in the problems and potential solutions. So we are definitely open to including commercial mortgages within this effort. Yeah, I think obviously our backgrounds are residential mortgages. There is definitely application. I hope we can inspire our commercial colleagues to create a subgroup that's more focused in the commercial space and look at, look at what we can learn from the capital market, say the other SIGs across the hyper ledger community, and have them start a conversation around commercial mortgages. In terms of the size, do you have any idea of how much what what commercial mortgages constitute? No, I don't have any data on commercials. It's we can provide. We can do some research and come back to you and provide you a full view of all the mortgages. So stepping back a little bit. There is a tendency for there to be for us to fragment into silos. Right. I mean, like you just said suggested, for example, the commercial mortgages could become their own subgroup. There is also the opposite centripetal force that brings us together, which is of course the hyper ledger umbrella itself. But more than that, there are some common problems across all of the blockchain solutions in all the different verticals. They include things like identity tokenization, you know, payment systems, settlement systems, various other topics, and that's not even just confined to capital markets, but to anything that is other, you know, that is, by the name of blockchain. Of course, we're not talking about the technical underpinnings, which, which also share in terms of the, in terms of the infrastructure, you know, it's supposed to be infrastructure. So what do you, you know, there are some initiatives there in uniting, not only just within the same but with between six. And I hope you guys will take a look at that effort here in hyper ledger. And we are trying to build a systemization of knowledge corresponding to these features that we mentioned before, which is performance and scale, you know, number of transactions per second, how do you do document. Basically, signing of documents. These are all problems that exist across the different silos. And hence we are, you know, we want to encourage you guys to get to that. But before that, does anybody else have any other questions otherwise I will, you know, I will go for more questions and more. Let's say discussions. Anyone else? Questions, Dan, I go. I think we have some questions in the chat right now. I do have a question on my own after we can address those. Okay, so, um, perhaps I have misheard but you've mentioned that one of the challenges or problems that you will try to solve is where people get more denied. Do you hear this correct where I misheard that point. I don't think we stated that. Okay, I must have misheard that sorry about that I'll withdraw my question. Yeah, I think that for that we're really not equipped to address is why people get mortgages denied. Let's say, you know, going back to the, let's say, scoring processes and be biasing of scoring algorithms with machine learning is a very important topic, which I am actually working on in another area but I am in touch with you know, fair housing authority, whose main concern is credit denials to people, mostly for mortgages, I assume, because they can also be for credit cards or anything else. But anyway, that's a, like you said, it's another one of those topics. So, here are some of the questions. Can I just chime in. I actually want to chime in with an echo of something you touched on a moment ago. And that is if we look at, I think, leaving aside blockchain for a second and we just look at the, you know, the more recent history of capital markets. We've seen pretty much a convergence of product types. And while an individual loan, you know, it is in itself, as loads of workflow, we also know of course that one of the biggest industries in the world is the pooling of mortgages and the creation of more tradeable pools. So I guess the point to make here on the back of that is to reiterate your comment earlier is that there's, if we're looking to create automated solutions to make the operating environment better, the interfaces between the types of solutions have to be solid. Right. And so, and I can appreciate that pre pooling in the case of retail mortgages, or pre trade, you know, pre post issuance and or post loan in the case of wholesale or commercial mortgages is a specific set of processes but the intersection point once they become closer to traded assets. That seems to be the, the, the bigger, the bigger opportunity and the thing which, you know, even the CLO market is trying to handle. So, as you guys embark upon thinking about mortgages and specific, I think the synergy with capital markets is urgent. And if we don't get that right. We end up with, you know, just one mess replacing another mess. But interoperability or anything. Like if I think about the process chain of mortgages as an asset similar to the process chain of loans and to CLOs as an asset. There is a point at which it becomes it, you know, where institutional where it shifts to institutional focus. And the capital markets is really focused in some respects on in the institutional side that if we don't get that transition right. We end up with, you know, a reflection of the problem we have today, which is lots of fragmented activity. And, you know, and a difficulty to know, I mean, think about how many banks have huge operations where they consume mortgage tapes. And trying to figure out what the pay down has been in an individual pool. It's like, you know, it's almost as it's hugely duplicative between banks and a mess and I'm sure that the tapes are not always read properly or tapes whatever the files are not always read properly. There are and there are errors. And so this process where we go from a more individual process to a more institutional process really needs to be integrated in this in a deep way. And so the concern is if we're going to focus have a there's going to be a group that's focused on mortgages. And one presumes that its area of deep focus is going to be leading up to the loan having been issued. And maybe it's in the life cycle of the loan, then it needs a deep integration with the capital market side. And I think that that was your point earlier, which you said in one sentence and I said in three or four minutes of bother. Dan, Dan, that was great. And that's exactly right. So the, the, the manufacturing of the mortgage is a critical component, right, that has to integrate seamlessly into the post closing investor delivery functions, then integrate seamlessly into the issuance processes, then integrate seamlessly into, you know, the reporting of the asset, the performance, the analytics, you know, the investor accountings, all that good stuff right so today they're all that they get cut off right you originate the long boom we're done, you send it over to post closing and they re-underwrite the loan right you send it over to investor delivery, they re-underwrite the loan you send the loan over to a wholesale investor, they re-underwrite the loan right. Yeah, point taken, I completely agree. And I think this is one of the reasons why, you know, we're part of the capital market SIG is that there are those synergies. It's, it is part of a broader chain, right, and it is a big chain and being, being part of this conversation, listening to your insights and feedback, bringing that into the mortgage subgroup, everybody's leadership, everybody's leadership on here, making sure that the conversation gets considered and we think about those synergies, and we think about how we implement those POCs. And Dan, you bring up an excellent point and just to give you an indication of how we've seen this problem progress. And back in the day, Angel and I saw literally pallets of loan documents being sent from country-wide and Bank of America to different institutional investors, and I'm sure they were taking those pallets of loan documents and it was literally pallets of documents being sent from one entity to another, and someone is going through and having to re-validate that information. And that now I'm sure that the pallets is still being sent, but that those documents are in an electronic format, but someone is still revalidating that information. Blockchain can take out the validation or the revalidation that all of those entities have to have to undergo as this information is being passed from one group to another, and they can just trust in the initial set of information. So definitely agree with you with the need for that interoperability and that that's one of the key pain points. I do see some questions on the chat which I'll read out and because you guys are focused on the presentation. I'll try to help you out here. Unless you want to continue on the same vein or you want to say something about these questions, which is money is asked, how do you plan to address regulations across many jurisdictions? So again, we want to invite everybody that's part of this ecosystem. Regulators are very, very important. And so depending the jurisdiction that we're operating in, we want representation. We want them to have a voice at the table. We want them to be aware. It's an educational opportunity to bring the regulators into the process and look for their guidance, right, and educate so that we can innovate. This is one of the questions we first raised when we first started speaking with Hyperledger. From the Hyperledger forum, we didn't see participation from regulatory bodies, from governmental bodies. And we wanted to make sure that you guys were open to that because for this to be successful, we do have to have participation from the regulatory body, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, all of those guys need to be a part of this. Yeah, actually, Ron, who is on the call, has written extensively on regulations, not just in America, but across, I mean, they have produced a book that looks at blockchain regulations across the world, but it's not obviously focused solely on this. But I have two other, several other questions. So let me just go ahead and say that. Land titles are also an important part in blockchain. Let's connect. So basically something about registries, I guess. It is a fragmented landscape when it comes to registries because it's counties, local governments that keep their histories and there should be some kind of a connection between that and a pool that is composed of multiple mortgages that are in different parts of the country. And the only thing obviously that you know is during the closing process there is a title, title insurance or something else that ensures that that is solid. So what we've seen, at least in the US and we're welcome to other activities are happening around the globe. But in the US, the Riverside County, which is based in California has started an initiative for blockchain technology they recognized from what we've seen and the research that we've done there. We haven't spoken to anybody yet, but we'd like to invite them to come here and present and tell us what they see and share their experience and how they're going about it is based on what they're reporting and what's available in the public right and recognize that, you know, being a large county managing data on legacy systems, right, not having the accurate title at some points in time, also protecting their constituents from potential equity stripping right so those are some of the top concerns that the county has in terms of managing title. And so it's definitely for what we see a great step that they're taking. And we want to have them be part of this group. And there's also a real interesting article. I was trying to dig it up and I can send the risk that out to the team. There was an interesting article published about a month or so ago that said does blockchain eliminate the need for title insurance, because if you have the history behind the property and it's been validated and it's contained within the blockchain. Does that completely eliminate the need for title insurance. And then some of the data was included in that is there were several, I think realtors or people within the title industry or the real estate industry. In the 2530 years of experience, no one has seen a title insurance claim. So, I know that those are all just points of data and anecdotal at best but in those are that's some of the information that's out there, at least as it relates to title and blockchain. There's another question from Elizabeth, which says, do you use an option alternative I don't know exactly what that means Elizabeth, would you care to explain. The question is more interesting. You can skip out. Okay. Well, the optionality of mortgages is what makes them complicated and the basically the gamma of mortgages. Anyway, let's not go into the. I also asked other questions where we're on the ledger. You put the environmental credit is there a seller trying to reduce the carbon footprint offering a trade. Is there a zero interest rate or coupon, a zero down payment or zero principle for an applicant with a zero carbon footprint. I have a couple of questions and I think that's something that's an aspect of the discussion. Right. When you start getting into mortgage product development mortgage security issuance trading, etc. You know what what are the features and characteristics of that mortgage. How can you make a mortgage more sustainable how can it be more green, and how can this, you know how can blockchain being a neighbor for that. Hand up a phone so you have that your hand up for quite a while. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Angel and Marvin for a great presentation. What I see here is, it's a great opportunity to connect the points. Okay, to do the bridging the silos that between was referring to because homes are a very important part of cities. And financing is a great entry point in some other cases in the world like for instance, I'm going to talk about Ghana. Okay. Accra began the land title registration and blockchain through an alliance with the financial institutions that were giving the mortgages. So rather than starting with counties and difficult political approach, they said to the banks and the mortgage institutions, let's every mortgage that you approve, let's register the land title. Okay, so that the next time it comes into the market. It's already solved. Okay, so that's that's a, I think a very clever way of connecting urban and political issues with finance. And so I'd like very much what you presented, because it opens up a whole chain of events related to homes, families, cities, and for those different parts and components. There are plenty of relevant blockchain applications. Thank you. Thank you Alfonso. Looking forward to collaborating with you. It'll be a pleasure. Another question that brings us back to the rationale for having this on the blockchain, which is, you know, probably answered in your slides, but Ashish is asking something about the fact. Does this blockchain do better than, let's say, electronic database of land and property records connected with FinTech learning platform. I mean, which, you know, you guys did talk about it, but maybe it's good to reiterate. Right. So, so I think that's a great question. Just some of the things that we've seen. At the end of the day, blockchain, you know, if you go at it alone as an institution, you're going to be in a centralized siloed technology platform from a mortgage originator perspective right. So, you know, consortia, right, having other parties be part of it, be open share information. So let's think about one of the big fraud risk that occur in in in the US from a mortgage application standpoint. What's called double lapping triple lapping right so you have a consumer who's applying for a loan equity stripping or cash out refi on one property but they're applying with multiple lenders. Right. So, each lender is in their own system each lender is processing their own application. If all these loans close at the same time. Right. That fraud event was successful. Right. And so, by one, one benefit in this fraud scenario of being part of a blockchain is that these applications will be shared among the lenders and the fraud can be identified it could be investigated and put on a path for resolution to mitigate fraud. Right. So that's just one use case from a fraud perspective. In a centralized mortgage operating model right scale is what matters scales what drives the budget for technologies. Right. And so you're creating and managing your own ecosystem, how you interact with the various vendors how you order appraisal how you order title. Right. And so, you're only as good as your API's you're only as good as your technology you're only as good as your process. And that dictates a big part of of your operating costs right to fund a mortgage in the US it's about $9,000 somewhere around that range. That's extremely extremely expensive. And so there's a lot of opportunities to make it more streamlined so when you go to blockchain. Right. When one of the biggest things that we see that creates a lot of turn, a lot of turn is the anxiety of the mortgage process itself the anxiety that this loan is going to close right because if the loan doesn't close there is no economic event. And so, you know, is Alfonso's loan on track. Right. And so it's so that requires a status a proof of work a proof of event. Right. And so everybody's going to call everybody's going to email everybody's going to follow up multiple times to make sure that Alfonso's is on track to close tomorrow at 2pm. Right. And then at, I won't get into all the details but there's a significant amount of that so can blockchain with its proof of work proof of event technologies be a truth that everybody can rely on that everybody has access to so that we eliminate that operational anxiety of this loan closing and everybody has that proof of work that a Alfonso's loan is scheduled for 2pm tomorrow. And that's what we know at this point in time and it's done, and all the churn goes away. Right. There's definitely fallout risk from the event tomorrow but that's a separate issue. But that's one of the advantages of blockchain. And there's others. The other, the other point is what you mentioned just now which is scale. As we know the downfall of people like country wide. And others happened because of the pressure to produce and scale. It became a machine and engine a sort of a unthink almost like you're executing. And you, your anxiety to close. It's not just the homeowner but also the financier, because once you close you originate those loans and then you can sell them into secondary market. If you can make those processes so fast, then it allows for essentially monopolies. I mean, you know, I mean I don't want to call it that way but that's what happens when you have these kind of incentives driving the market. So will the advent of blockchain create more of a decentralized play so that the infrastructure is shared. And then there are more people who can get into the market, maybe even a decentralized marketplace like, you know, loans from individuals to help. I mean, it's already been done in the short term loans, but obviously the duration of mortgages make it very difficult, but since there is a secondary market. There can be a way to, you know, leapfrog from a longer duration into a shorter duration. Which is what basically what the secretization does. I mean, pulling all that stuff. So what do you think of that as a sort of side note to what you just said. I think it's definitely part of the conversation we need to think about that right I think the benefits of blockchain, you know, talking a little bit about that anxiety is alone going to close you know that anxiety happens upstream as well right so Dan made some great points about making sure that that information that data flows all the way up to the issuance and all the way up to the investor and performance reporting of that asset right and so you know just think about, you know, I apply for a loan, I submit my pay stubs, or they get electronically and they verify my income. What we're really worried about now between now and the time my loan closes, or in the future is did my income change right, but if my income doesn't change, then why is my income need to be verified multiple times within the loan origination process. Why does it have to be re verified during the investor delivery process, you know why does it have to be re verified in the due diligence of delivery of whole loans to secondary right. So, so what do we, if we have been verified once in the blockchain, you know, the question is, can we rely on that is that the truth right and if it is on blockchain and we are all are comfortable with the blockchain and the integrity of the blockchain and how it works, then we can rely on that data point all the way until my last payment of my 30th year of going into this mortgage right unless there's a change right so what we want to do is really start looking at data and saying hey, if it's part of the blockchain, it's a proof and event, it's proof of status, it's proof of data. Let's, let's build on top of that. But as we start to build on that we're also streamlining and removing friction, anxiety processes, re verification of work, and we're streamlining things and it gives us a better opportunity to start connecting these dots right so how do we connect. How do we connect to the land registries how do we connect to the valuation of the property how do we connect to the secondary market players how do we connect to the warehouse lenders how do we connect to the issuance and the government sponsored agencies, enterprises, how do we connect to, you know, the rating agencies how do we how does all that data connect. And if we look at the mortgage subgroup as an opportunity to start that conversation. It's definitely going to be an interesting conversation for sure, but that's, that's, that's the opportunity here right the network of network effects with blockchain and just to add to the points that Angel made. If removal of that friction that I think will address some of the creation of monopolies that you were alluding to that been in one of the reasons why hundred one was so successful, and eventually became as you say monopoly because it had better systems than anyone else. Now you're seeing the creation of similar entities like loan depot and they're one of the biggest loan originators non bank originators in the US, and that's because they have better than anyone else. Hopefully blockchain will remove the friction in the mortgage value chain that will level the playing field with I think the term that used to allow smaller parties so that that type of monopolization or creation of these large entities doesn't happen. All very delightful. Unfortunately, we are out of time looks like there are some people here on another call probably I don't know but you know, unless there's someone else we can continue this conversation for five more minutes but I don't know I mean I haven't looked carefully to see whether there are others who are taking over this is there is there a call scheduled on this on this particular zoom link. As anybody know, otherwise we can continue for a few more. And I think many of these people are bringing forth like Boulevard, like Elizabeth green, the possibility of external data, which is very, you know, kind of trusted, trusted external data oracles, of course, and that's normally what we call them but Oracle was It's a bad name, according to me because Oracle needs interpretation, right. Oracle only speaks in very vague terms, and of course, almost always you need to see what that actually means. But in a in this sense, it is the truth from the outside world coming into the blockchain system. And that's not only for the issuance part, but for the performance part. I was intimately involved with index data and with there was another supplier of pool performance data that we had to download monthly and it was very, very, you know, like on the fourth of the month, fourth business day, it was a big deal. Unless you have this properly done, you can't calculate payment risk. So this is all about outside data. Anyway, we can, we can close the call but there are a lot of interesting points that have been raised. And I will put put the recording, as well as some of these questions. And it's for you guys to start taking this forward and I can participate to whatever extent I can. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much, everybody. Appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. Appreciate it. Bye bye.