 Good evening, everyone. I'm Daniel Amstutz. I'm from the town planning and community development department. We will be starting in just a minute. All right, I think we'll just go ahead and get started. Again, my name is Daniel Amstutz. I'm the senior transportation planner for the town of Arlington. This is a public meeting about the safe reach to school infrastructure project for the town of Arlington for the Stratton school area. I think if we want to go to the next slide. Oh, I think I see principal Hannah here just coming in. So this is the agenda for this evening. Principal like Hannah, I think has just come on to the meeting. So we'll give them a minute just to get ready. You can have a little introduction and then I'll also go over the meeting guidelines and ground rules and so on, and then go over a little bit of the background of this project. And then Amy Archer here from the park operation will go through the majority of the discussion about the project, the scope, the design progress, and then we'll have a good long part of this for any comments, questions, discussion, asking, you know, about the project itself and the details so we go on to the next slide. Okay, so I'll go over this first. This meeting is being recorded. We will be able to rebroadcast this through ACMI or they'll put it up on their, their YouTube page. So people will be able to see it again later on. You know, if you aren't comfortable being recorded you can turn off your microphone turn off your turn off your video and so on. But if you could please keep yourself muted during the meeting until it's time to speak, you can mute and unmute yourself. We will have open you know questions and answer later on once we've gone through sort of the context of the project and how things have changed. And then just a basic zoom controls. There is a chat that is you can access the chat but that's just like the host and co host which is me and Amy and then her colleague Tim. And so, you know we can leave those more towards the end once we get to that part of the meeting. And all your zoom controls in here and then there's also under reactions you should be able to raise your hand once we get to that point. So, moving on then this is people that are involved or like agencies that are involved. Stratton schools or partner school here it's in the town of Arlington of course. Mass dot the Department of Transport State Department of Transportation is administering the design process and providing engineer services. And then the administration is the design consultant and designing this project. And then because this project is federally, it's funded through federal dollars. There's oversight from the federal highway administration. I did want to see if principal Hannah, are you here. Yep, I'm here Daniel. Do you want to give a brief. Just intro overview before we're going. Happy to I just wanted to thank you very much for your partnership with the school. Also Amy. Like Rademacher, and all the folks who've been brought in. I've been just a great partner to the school it's clear that you're really thinking about first and foremost the experience of kids and their families, and their experience of being here. You know, rich part of being an elementary school student is being able to get safely to and from school, and being able to do that on foot or on bike has clearly been the most important thing for all the people that have been involved in this conversation and so I want to thank y'all for on the forefront of every conversation we've had up to this point for being flexible with my schedule and my ability to come and be a collaborator and always seeking my input on every element of the project up to this point so really excited about having this opportunity to hear more broadly from families in the Stratton district and then also for us to be moving forward with this really exciting improvement and augmentation to the experience of Stratton families so thanks to all of you who've been a part of this so far and thanks for this opportunity to to hear from our families. Yeah, thank you principal Hannah I really appreciate that. And I think yeah schools been a great partner with this too. So as moving on, we're getting into the meat of this about the project and this background. Some of you may know, basically the town applied for. And it has an application process to for construction funding for projects that are related to the safer school program and safer school program really promotes the walking and biking and safety of children, getting to and from school, and they do this through mechanisms, education, working with police and other enforcement agencies engine, like this is a sort of engineering really is this infrastructure piece of it, they work on that too. And so they run this other this program where you through federal funding that the state receives, they run an application process for infrastructure funding. And two years ago we applied for this funding and received it for this project, which we'll talk about in more in a minute. And, you know, these are different kinds of improvements that you can, you can use the money for for under the safe routes program under this particular funding program. So for this project we're looking at sidewalk improvements, traffic calming speed reduction, and pedestrian bicycle crossing improvements, which are all part of the part of what what the project is about so on the next slide. I should say also that we worked with a number of community members and kind of scoping out this project and starting this project I think it was early, or maybe summer of 2018. When we attended met with some residents to talk about this issue about the lack of sidewalks and safe, safe accessibility up on Hamlock Street and Dixon Avenue up to the school, and as part of that, we also collected data. Again, a lot of volunteer help to collect some of the data and you can see from what we collected a couple years ago was that many, many students almost two thirds students walk to school. You know, many of them get transferred by vehicle but actually more more than that actually walk to, and almost half of them walk from school as well. So on the next slide. We, we know, knowing this, we really wanted with these projects to remove the accessibility barriers. Install 80 complaint curb ramps accessibility I think is sometimes a major issue like on Helmock Street get some of the, the sidewalks there have root heaves and are in poor shape. The major aspect of this is installing these new sidewalks we're talking about in Hemlock and Dixon Avenue to provide that safe and accessible walking path, narrowing the roadway intersections there are some intersections that are just sort of wide swaths of pavement that make it difficult for people to navigate and don't make it safe for people that are walking and biking in the middle of the street with with vehicles so trying to work on that and also reduce, you know reduce speeds by also narrowing up the widths of the road as well, providing safe pedestrian crossings is also really important aspect of this for when you do need to cross the street to get to the safe, accessible sidewalk that there is a, you know, a safe crossing for people to do that. And then of course signage to the throughout the corridor as necessary. I think on the next slide. I think is where Amy will Amy archer from par will take. Take up on this so take it away Amy. Excellent. Thank you very much Daniel. As Dan mentioned I'm here with our preparation also with me as Tim Thompson, and we're working through the engineering on this picking up. What is really shown here is prior to where the design officially started. This has been developed previously as part of concept design and the preparation of the application that Dan had talked to. We wanted to start with this point is something that many of you may have seen in the past. Walk through really quickly what the scope was identified as it transitioned into design, and then we'll talk through how the scope has evolved and started to advance from there. The initial application was to pick up along Pheasant Avenue where recent reconstruction of sidewalks had been completed, or are intended to be completed by the school itself. So those were pre-programmed in this project was to pick up where that meets Dixon Avenue, add new sidewalk along Dixon Avenue toward Hemlock, repair and expand sidewalks along the west side of Hemlock Street. I'll actually point out quickly north is to the left on this image, if it helps anyone orient themselves. So the existing sidewalk along the west side of Hemlock Street was to be improved and brought up to full ADA compliance with revised or new curb ramps as needed. And then the width was to be adjusted as much of that is only about three feet wide in this northern area. In addition, these are two of the intersections that were flagged for some narrowing of the roadways approaching Hemlock Street. So Hemlock where it curves into Dixon and Hemlock, and then you'll see as it approaches Hemlock itself or two of those areas. And mentioned that have pretty wide swap there with wide turn movements that facilitate higher speed movements than are appropriate for people crossing in those areas. So those were to be pinched down. And then new sidewalks to be added along the east side of Hemlock Street from New York City Road down to where it ends just north of Lansdowne Road. So current sidewalk exists along the east side of Hemlock just north of Lansdowne for a very short stretch and then it ends. So this was trying to continue it all the way up to York City Avenue. And similar to the rest of Hemlock sidewalks along both sides south of Lansdowne will be improved to meet full ADA compliance. So as park corporation got involved, there were two key things from the initial scope that prove difficult or we saw as an opportunity. So the intention to put sidewalk along the east side of Hemlock Street between Janet road and nose farm. There's a property there that has a very large retaining wall that actually retains the home's foundation that was determined to be infeasible to put sidewalk adjacent to that. We would have needed to support the home foundation during construction and then repair and reconstruct that retaining wall, and it proved to be financially prohibitive. So that piece of sidewalk was removed from scope very early on as we started to work through this with the county mascot. And then what we saw as the greatest drawback to the initial scope that was provided for the application was it came to Fezzan Avenue, which goes to the back entrance of the school. So we did our observations in the field, we identified students walking the back entrance in the front entrance. So we recommended extension further along Dixon Avenue up to Mountain Avenue, and then along Mountain Avenue itself up to Wheeler, where the school's recent sidewalk reconstructions had ended on their previous project. So we'll go through each of those segments in a little more detail just to give you a little more information and a better view here. The intent on Mountain Avenue was to keep the sidewalk on the school side to eliminate the need for additional crossings. That also proved prohibitive based on the slopes there and the proximity of some steps and walls, very close to the edge of the street. So we had to put it on the opposite side of Mountain Ave. That will require a crosswalk across Wheeler to connect into the existing crosswalk, not currently shown here, but that will certainly be incorporated as we continue to advance the design. Along Dixon Avenue, as I mentioned, we also extended from Fezzan Avenue, which you can see on the lower right of this image, up to Mountain Avenue. There are some grade differentials at this intersection of Dixon and Mountain that we'll certainly have to work with to get some ADA appropriate ramps. And at that corner, there were some temporary ramps or some concrete ramps were put in place, but they don't meet the ability for pedestrians to cross from all approaches so we're going to reconstruct those and make sure that they accommodate more of a user path. Continuing along Dixon, we would continue the installation of new sidewalk along that full stretch as it extends over to Hemlock Street. So now we're coming past Fezzan. There is a crosswalk across Dixon Avenue right at Fezzan that leads to the opposite side of the road but does not have a receiving ramp. That ramp will be installed as part of the project. The site line improvements are intended at the intersection of Dixon Avenue in Fezzan. There's a very large bush that's actually partially in the roadway right away. It's going to need to be trimmed at least if not removed to make sure that the ramps and the site lines are at that intersection. As I mentioned before, Hemlock Street, we're looking to tighten up this intersection from everything we've observed, the Hemlock to Dixon curve is actually the primary movement. So just kind of prioritizing that teeing in the other leg of Hemlock Street, making that a cleaner connection so that the movements are more identifiable. Right now there's a little ambiguity in the right away at that intersection. The sidewalk from there from where Hemlock meets Dixon, passing, epping and heading towards York City. This sidewalk will be widened, I believe I mentioned as well. It's currently about two and a half at its minimum in some short stretches and three feet for a good, good bit of it. We want to get that up to the ADA minimum of five feet. So we'll be widening that sidewalk. It currently is against the right away already. So we're going to have to widen that into the road. We're working with the town to identify with fire and safety with the minimum width is that they're willing to go to. It looks like this would be roughly 24 feet in most areas which actually matches some of the width of Hemlock farther south may have a pinch to 22 and one area. That is likely to be accepted by fire and safety. However, it would require actual posting of no parking along that stretch just to make sure that the width isn't impeded any further beyond that. Just to the edge on the right side of this image, the crossing that was previously shown in the analysis at York City itself. We're probably going to move to the middle of the stretch between your see and those farm to accommodate both neighborhoods. As I mentioned, we can't continue the sidewalk just south and those farms so to make sure that we're still accommodating walkers from that neighborhood, as well as the York City Road neighborhood. There will likely be a crossing right at the center of this curve, which will kind of help us if you put it right at the center gives you the best site line in both directions. On the west side of Hemlock Street. I won't talk too much about this. It's just going to be replacement in kind almost but bringing it up to ADA is in and mentioned a lot of the trees heave the broken the panels of the sidewalk. They're limiting the accessibility right now. We want to put those back to the condition they probably started out in and they should be in. The intent was to extend sidewalk between lands down road and Janet wrote it and we'll talk about that a little bit more in just a couple of minutes. And then just bringing us all the way to the actual southern limit this whole portion is just going to be reconstruction of sidewalks to bring them up to ADA compliance. So right now, as we've got things designed where we're advancing towards the 25% submission we're planning to submit that to mass dot in December. We have maintained everything that's proposed that I've shown on the previous slides, within the roadway right away, with the minor exception of a couple of about one foot wide permanent easements that may be needed on parcels. So the abutting property is higher than the roadway or the back of sidewalk, and we might need a narrow, they call it a lock curve, almost like a very small retaining wall. A couple of narrow permanent easements might be needed on just a source number of parcels to make that happen but otherwise all the improvements that I've shown are within the roadway right away. We're seeking to maintain and mimic the grass buffer that exists along Hemlock Street. So that is consistent along all of the sidewalk on the west side of the road, it's adjacent to most of the existing sidewalk on the east side of the road so as we look to extend the sidewalk on the east side up to Janet road we'd be looking to make sure it's in kind with that treatment along Dixon and Mountain Avenue. So instead of doing the grass buffer. Some of those parcels have approached actually extended into the roadway right away. Although technically that that right away can be reused for roadway purpose and sidewalk purpose. There is a perceived impact to those properties. So on that area, we've currently prioritized continuous yard over the grass buffers so instead of putting two feet of grass and then the sidewalk which actually requires a seven foot shift in the road edge line to the back of sidewalk, just keeping it at a five foot sidewalk The layout as I've shown over the last few slides does have potential impact to a few utility poles that is part of the conversation with the town about how narrow the road are they able to accept from a safety perspective. If they can accommodate that 22 foot pinch in one or two areas, then I think we can maintain utility poles as they exist today along Dixon and Hemlock. But we may end up encroaching on a couple of these poles if the roadway widths need to be widened. And then we're looking at impacts to trees along Hemlock Dixon and Mountain to maintain and provide an ADA compliant walkway, and I want to walk through how these things kind of lead to what we call design tripped off. So, part of what we want to hear from you tonight or the primary thing that we'd like to hear from the public tonight once we get into the question and comment is what is the priority for people in the town what what is the thing that you hold most sacred that you don't want to see impacted. Generally within that grass buffer is the presence of both the utility poles and the trees. There's no eliminated grass buffer anywhere. Some property owners some towns don't appreciate a grass buffer because it is sometimes hard to maintain as a relatively narrow strip, but a lot of pedestrian users do appreciate the grass buffer because it gives you that offset from the road use. That has more of a protected feel. So one of the trade offs is grass buffer, which allows for the utility pool and tree locations versus no grass buffer. If we wanted to limit tree impacts in some areas than the sidewalk would have to walk around them. That may take the ability to have on street parking. As I mentioned, if we go narrower than 24, the town is definitely going to make a sign prohibited on street parking in those areas. Another element that we'll talk through here on the next slide in particular is how do you compare the prioritization of added sidewalk to traffic circulation and added sidewalk to the number of roadway crossings that are required. And if we eliminate that stretch between lands down in Janet, then you want to have a crossing from both side streets to get you over to the sidewalk from the west side, and I'll show that in more detail in a minute as well. And then right away, like I said, we have designed things so far to try and maintain everything within the roadway right away, limiting to simply temporary easements that would be required for some slope work just to do a little bit of planning at the back of the reconstructed sidewalks, but then ultimately there will be no change to property ownership. If people would rather see more sidewalk and save the trees and save the utility poles and not give up on street parking, then, you know, are you willing to give up a foot or two of right away on a on a private property. So those are the tradeoffs and I'll talk through at least three examples where they fall within the project just to give a little more context. So as I mentioned, we're trying to put the sidewalk along Mountain Avenue, it needs to go on the east side, because the slopes on the west side are prohibitive, there are stairs within a short distance we wouldn't be able to flatten this to get the sidewalk to still maintain walls and steps along the properties there. So we're looking at putting it on the east side, it is currently shown to hit at least two to three mature trees, as well as potentially two utility poles. So one of the alternatives we looked at in this area is, you have a nice little triangle between Mountain Avenue, which is currently one way during your school peak hours, Wheeler Lane, which is also one way, and then Dixon Avenue which is two way. So is there availability to make this one way along the section of Mountain Avenue be permanent, instead of just being during those restricted hours, make that a full time thing that would then allow us to narrow the roadway, down to a 22 to 24 foot width. It would allow us to get the sidewalk within part of the existing roadway. And then we could put bump outs around the trees. So it allows to maintain both trees and utility poles, but would require an alteration and circulation, and I did show arrows on the figure here just to demonstrate that the one way on both of these roadways is currently away from this intersection. So one of the two would need to be reversed. Mountain Avenue being a much, much longer road, it may make sense to keep that one way and switch the one way direction of Wheeler, and you would essentially end up with a triangle like this. But Dixon Avenue could remain two way. So that's one area with particular consideration for these tradeoffs. The next is along Dixon Avenue. As I mentioned, we are adding a brand new sidewalk there. Once you get to, excuse me, once you get to the northern part of Helmlock past Epping the sidewalk ends. So there's a very small stretch of Helmlock that currently has no sidewalk, and then Dixon Avenue has no sidewalk. So we want to add sidewalk on the northern or northwestern side of Dixon Avenue. As I mentioned, quite a few of these properties have extended into the right away. So the right away actually goes a little bit further than where the edge of pavement is shown today. So we've got a quick rendering of what that might look like. So you can see like a couple feet of what shows as the yard has to be taken to implement the sidewalk. So part of the tradeoff here as I mentioned is do you add the grass buffer or do you not? It's a perceived additional impact to the properties that exist there today, even though technically it fits within the roadway right away. But it does give an additional buffer to people traversing the sidewalk. And then the next improvement, whether we put the grass stripping or not, is also going to require about a two foot take of the roadway. So this is about a 26 foot roadway today and we're looking to take it down to 24 feet, which matches the narrow sections of Helmlock today. And then the third particular tradeoff I want to talk to before we start to get into the Q&A and comment period is potential tradeoffs on Helmlock Street. So Helmlock Street today is about 24 to 26 feet wide varies a little bit throughout there. On street parking is not prohibited. So that basically means it's permitted. And people do it in various positions on either side of the road, although it encroaches somewhat into the general traveling. So if we keep the roadways, if we keep the roadway the width that it's at and we put the sidewalks beyond the roadway. Then there are impacts to trees that have to happen in order to take those sidewalks up to EVA compliance. And if you see this image in the lower right, there's an example of a tree that's well outgrown the area it was intended to be in. Part of it is actually over the curb line and depressing the curb line so you have almost no vertical barrier of vehicles if they happen to go from the road. It has heaved the sidewalk, it's always a little hard to see elevation and pictures but this is about a nine to 10 inch elevation change between the top of curb and the top of sidewalk right now because of this tree. And its roots have extended enough that there isn't even a three foot passage here, which is the minimum for pinpoint for ADA. So this is one of at least almost a handful of trees that are going to have to come out just to upgrade the sidewalks to ADA compliance in the locations that they exist today. And then there are other trees that we are planning over the next few weeks to meet with the Talents Tree Warden to see even if they fit within that existing two foot grass buffer and appear relatively healthy. Will the construction activity of cutting and replacing the sidewalk and removing and resetting the curb, will that damage the roots of the tree enough that it will compromise the health and the safety of the tree. So the there's an area here between Landsdown Road and Janet Road where we're looking to extend sidewalk that doesn't exist today. So I believe I mentioned it comes north of Landsdown for just about maybe 100 feet probably even a little bit less than 100 feet. And then the rest of this stretch highlighted here would be new sidewalk. So that would require hit impact to two relatively mature trees which we have images here. And then there's a third tree that we think we could get behind, but it's very close to this driveway so just as well this is very steep even just to put a single vehicle in this driveway they're practically like into the space where the sidewalk would be. They only have room for one vehicle so that parking the second one where the sidewalk would be. So this isn't even on street parking. This is essentially off street parking, but it would go if the sidewalk was installed in this area. So in this area, if we extend the sidewalk we hit the two trees, and we impact a little bit of what's currently being used as parking space. But we're allowed to carry residents up to Janet Road and then cross everybody from the east side over to the west side at a consolidated point. And then we'll have an additional crossing as I mentioned between New York City and Mills Farm. So we would likely have two crosswalks. If we if the direction of the community is that they prioritize the trees and the parking and not narrowing the road and not taking right away, then we may eliminate this stretch of sidewalk that was previously proposed. And that would require an additional crosswalk here at Landstown Road. So just want to make sure that every neighborhood on the east side has the opportunity to cross if sidewalk is only carried on the west side. So the last major thing I wanted to point out, Dan, if you want to hop back in, we can open it up to questions and comments from the public. Yeah, thank you very much, Amy. I really appreciate that was good overview of the project and also some of the challenges that we're looking at and that we're looking for feedback on kind of priority and preferences. Yes. So, do you have a raise your hand feature I think it's usually under the, like reactions tab I think is where it's been put. I do want to first before we go to the raised hands is that there are a couple of questions that came up in the chat which I think we're good sort of background, the questions about background that I think would be helpful to have up front. There was a question about I think I had said baby like we about the early stages of the project sort of who is this we, and I think my, what I recall from the timeline was that the, there are some parents and community members that had met with town staff in like summer of 19 think maybe August that were very concerned about this stretch between like Hemlock where the sidewalk ends and then Dixon Avenue and the lack of any safe sidewalk along Dixon to get to the school to get to where the sidewalk picks up again on pheasant and so you know town staff had previously met with them and understood that there was some challenges with funding and being able to build a sidewalk, even though it was a short stretch you know there's a number of different challenges as Amy has mentioned. So, when we learned I think in late fall that this opportunity was that this this grant opportunity was available. We'd already had these conversations and I think we may have already either before then or at the time had met with Principal Hannah about this project and I know the transportation advisory committee. We have some feedback on this and has done, had identified this as, as a, you know, a gap as a sidewalk gap previously and I know tack had done some work around here previously so. So, we worked with again the community members parents that we had met with in person and then got support from the school and then also this project has gotten support from the select board and from the town manager's office. And, and you know clearly that that mass dot found it was a really needed project. So, so those are all the we that that had we had worked with so I would say this is a really community driven project from the beginning, really recognized by the town and also the state. The other question was about paving and repaving the road hemlock and Dixon and that is something that we know is an issue and that public works is planning to do along with this project. I think, you know, I think after the project has come in. There's, there's a, in order for them to do a sort of on the right schedule I believe that have to come in afterwards. So, somebody from public works here can speak more to it but I think that basically we're trying to time these up together so that we're not trying to repave the road and then you know we come in with construction crews and rip up all the road, everything so so that is definitely planned. So I know there's a few things came in on the chat but I want to go to the hands that are up so the first person I see is Paul. Hi. I live on Pine Street at Hemlock. The retaining wall that holds a sidewalk up here is along my property line. And I was just curious if that retaining wall is going to be impacted in any way during this project. I identified that as an area that we're going to have our structural engineers look just take a peek at so far for pictures I've shared from my site walks, it looks like it certainly has ability to stay as it is. I think part of our conversation is to make sure that we check clear zones adjacent to the road just to see if that railing has appropriate or the railing there needs to be beefed up. So, we are taking a look at that, but it seems that the conditional wall could stay. Yeah, the railing is rotted and shakes when the kids jump on it so that is definitely a safety issue just an FYI. Yep, I think we can certainly replace it it's just does it stay a standard head rail or does it need to be something a little bit more enhanced. Okay, thank you. Great, thank you. I did want to briefly just recognize that representative Sean garbally is on the call to and is listening in so thank you very much representative for coming to this meeting and hearing about this project. I think we can go. The next person I see is Roy. Hello. Thanks for taking my question. I have. I don't know if it's. Well, let me just ask. I think that both Dixon and hemlock are streets that are very close to school already. We live on Ridge. And when we walk to school it's it's not very close it's like, I don't know, maybe a quarter of a mile or something like that. It's a good 10 minute walk and we're walking on exposed road. There's absolutely no no sidewalks along Ridge. There's a few sections there where there really is no. There's a few, you know, hidden curves, the cars go very fast there and it's nothing like Dixon and hemlock that frankly are very close to school it's like a two minute walk. They already have on hemlock they already have that sidewalk. So I'm just wondering what what do you think or what do you plan for people who live along Ridge and around this area. Sure. Thanks for that question. Yeah, this this project. I mean I think part of it was that we identified quickly that this was a pretty clear gap, you know along hemlock and Dixon. That part of it was was also that there's a really nasty steep slope that's right between Yerkes Road and Epping along hemlock. And so this was definitely identified gap I think with Ridge I would just say that it's, there's a, you know, there's a lot. There's a longer section on Ridge I think that is missing sidewalk I think it does have some sidewalk along the way. The town doesn't, it doesn't exactly have like a full on sidewalk improvement program for some of these streets there are, you know, still many streets, even though Arlington is a lot of sidewalks, there's so many streets that don't have any sidewalk on them. And I think that, you know, that that is another challenge we are trying to, I think part of this project and extending it down Dixon the mountain is also to try to build out more of the, the sidewalk network and that's in the area. So, so that's what I can say about that is that it's definitely still a need that we would need to find funding for. I can add quickly the, the safe routes to school program through mass dot in general seeks to start with the, the elements that are missing closest to the school that serve the greatest amount of the population for the school. And then it tends to serve as a building law point for either the town to continue or to in the future end up submitting for an additional safe routes to school. And the law safe routes to school project is usually capped at a certain amount so the school has to identify the greatest need first. Yeah, thank you Amy. So I'm going to move on to the next per I'm going to move on to the next hand that is raised and then I'm going to. There's quite a few questions that have come up in the chat that have come to me. So, but the next person who's got their hand raised is Stuart. Thank you. I'm Stuart deck. On the Dixon Avenue piece between Hemlock and pheasant street. There's a fire hydrant and a telephone pole currently on the edge of the street. What are the plans for those pieces to be relocated. I'm going to jump back to that slide. As I mentioned, there's a bit of right away there and our intent is to narrow the road, a couple of feet, so that we wouldn't actually be impacting those were trying to fit around them. So as I believe I also mentioned at one point, ADA accessibility allows you go to a minimum inch as narrow as three feet past obstruction such as the utility pool is probably the most common element. It has to be traversed. So, we don't need to go narrower than a three foot pinch that will likely happen past the utility pole in the, in the fire hydrant as you mentioned but we are bumping out a little bit into the existing roadway, and then utilizing at this space up to the right away. As I mentioned that could vary whether we add a grass buffer or keep it as shown here without the grass buffer. But there is an offering with the slight narrowing of the roadway to get us past those those two obstructions. Thank you Amy. Yeah, thank you. So let me see. So I have Elizabeth deck and then I think, did you also send me Elizabeth a chat message question. Yes, that was me. Also, 91 Dixon have and just a question and actually it's super helpful to have that slide that's up right now on on the. Can you talk a little bit about how, when you're measuring the road so, for example, the it talks. Do you measure it for the easement that's on both sides of the road and consider that as sort of the, the total available space to have road sidewalks So essentially if you're trying to figure out how to extend a sidewalk or add things. Are you looking at taking from both sides of the road or just the side where you're adding the sidewalk. Does that make sense like are you adding are you adding the same things on the sides or just the one. So far, as I mentioned, but the overall project has a cost cap. So, since the sidewalk can fit within the right away available on the side of the road where it is proposed to make the greatest connection or the closest connection to the school. So we're looking at just adjustments to the roadway on that side. If we look at a complete balance, we would actually have to shift the road, which would require widening on the other side which would be a very substantial cost increase to the project. And I'm pretty certain would break the cap that we're pretty much already there. The allocated cost for the project was almost right at the mass dot cap and that was before our recommended the addition of extending along Dixon and up mountain half so we are working with mass dot to see if there's any additional funding or where our costs will be finalized with our 25% submission. But just to point that out if you were to balance the whole thing as you're suggesting you would have to widen the road on the opposite side, which would have a very substantial cost. Thank you. Okay, so there's a couple of questions I have that are related to just going to go to the chats for a moment here so there's a question. So the question's basically about the one way changes or possibility I suppose, sort of wheeler wheeler. Mountain Dixon. So, one person said, Brenda says, can you explain the wheeler pheasant one way change possibility again. So so I should mention that pheasant street is one way from, I believe it's overlook road to Dixon have. So with that, and I think that's all the time, if I'm correct on that. And so Brenda says we come from upper Dixon at the corner of Morningside wheeler that may be affected. And then, Amy says, would a switch to a one way street option on Mount Nav allow for sidewalks to continue from Dixon up the hill on the school side of the street. Amy, I think you can, I think you talked about that second one, but maybe if you can clarify. Yep. So as I mentioned, Mountain Avenue has a one way movement during just the school peak hours, and then wheeler is one one way away from Mountain Avenue towards Dixon, all the time. What we were looking at is, could we narrow the roadway stretch of Mountain Avenue between wheeler in Dixon to allow for the construction of the sidewalk. Since both of them currently go. If you start at the intersection of mountain and wheeler the one ways currently both go away from that point. We would want to switch one of the two so that way you could make a triangular movement. So from this point here, hopefully you can kind of see my cursor moving around there, instead of moving in, sorry, instead of moving in each direction away from that point we want to make it so you could make this triangular movement. So nothing was impacted by more than a couple hundred feet, like if you wanted to come up wheeler this way and it was reversed you would make a small loop to come around to the direction you were trying to travel. So if we were able to narrow this, could we then put it on the school side. We had not actually gotten that far yet. Currently, we were tasked with designing so far as we advanced towards 25 is to work within the confines that are there. So there's a lot of public support for considering the one way there which we would then advance that conversation with the town and their DPW and their fire and safety. Then we could take another look at if it would fit on this side without impacting the steps and the walls that exist on these properties. It would be advantageous to keep it on the school side. Thank you. All right, I'm going to go to the raised hands again to Tom. Hi, thanks. Tom Abart 73 Dixon Avenue. So for the stretch of Dixon between pheasant and mountain, as I understand it, the sidewalk will be on the left side, the school side of that street. Is the plan to put that in the existing road and narrow the road there. I wasn't clear on what the plan is it or is it going to be going into the lawns of the properties on that side. Yeah, so as I mentioned along Dixon on both sides of pheasant and I apologize it sounds like your property jumps. On the sheet on Dixon. I am on that sheet. Yeah, it's sort of the middle of blocks so that on the Dixon Avenue section there. So the grade is higher. Yeah. Okay. So what we were showing along Dixon the whole stretch from mountain to have lock was a two foot reduction in the roadway with to get part of the sidewalk. And then it would extend three feet back towards the properties. So if you can see it might be a little faint on your screen, we are going to share this PowerPoint on the town's website as well so if you wanted to view it after it might be a little easier. But I have the sidewalk here and then there's this painter line behind it. That is the existing roadway right away. So the sidewalk that we're proposing as I mentioned we would narrow the road two feet so feet would go into the existing roadway three feet would go back towards the properties from where the edge of road is today. It's all within the available right away. But we understand that that does have a perceived impact to the properties because many, many of the parcels along this road currently have front lawns that go out to the edge of the road. Right. So our property, for example, a couple I think two of the properties have a grade that's quite a bit higher than the street. So in our case it is about two feet higher. So would part of the project be putting in some sort of retaining wall. How would that all work as needed we're looking at it's either called a lock curve is like a low about up to a foot tall. Knee wall they call it at the back of the sidewalk to make up the grade difference or for very small retaining wall was needed. That would be installed. And I know the original scope carried the assumption that there would be a couple of short stretches retaining wall. Obviously we're dealing with a road called mountain have and then the adjacent area, very steep grades are certainly going to lead us to a need for that and at least a couple places. Thank you. I'm actually on the call as well. His wife at 73 Dixon Avenue, Caitlin Smith, just a quick follow up question. Would we have a conversation with the engineers in the town in terms of the wall and how that works or is that just something the town decides and installs. The funding is coming from mass. But I think that they are generally open to some conversation as long as what you may request doesn't have a major cost differential compared to something a little more basic. I understand. And we do like the traffic calming aspect on Dixon and we'd love to see the trees please. Thank you for your input. Yeah, thank you. All right, I'm going to jump back to the chat for a minute. I'm just going on what I've what's come to me in order sequentially and actually this this question kind of dovetails with what Tom was just or what was what was just asked. So I have a question from Lydia. It says, for at least some of the trees is it possible to narrow the street only at that point. Would that serve as a helpful street traffic calming slash slow down point for cars coming downhill. The speed of downhill traffic on school mornings is sometimes concerning. So that is something we're considering and we discussed a little bit with DPW. It can't be a narrowing at just a single instantaneous point where it creates a hazard for the vehicular traffic that they could hit that jut out, especially in low light conditions. So it needs to be tapered into and tapered out of appropriately. So it has more of an impact than just that instantaneous point but it is something that we've considered and we're discussing with the town as a possibility to try to save some more of those trees. Thank you. All right. See jumping back. Let's see. I have a very long question here. But let me let me go to then the hands again to Christine. Hi, I'm Christine Michael I live at the corner of mountain and Dixon. I have some of the questions that I have so I think this is you answer some of the questions you answered Tom and Caitlin's questions just about two feet in and I'm sorry three feet into our, what were our lawn ends today and then two feet into the street but right there there is a tree we have some hard scapings and stairs. And so I'm just, I guess I'm just looking for a little more clarification on how it, like, what would happen to the tree, for instance, does that need to go away because that's right on, I think, within that that five foot and the question of timing to like when like, if we have to make changes because we have a sprinkler system that abuts the edge, because we have, there's some stone there, like, how do we know. I assume you're you're talking to this property. No the other one. This one over here. Yes, that one there yeah. All right, I believe there were two trees long the stretch that we identified as having to be hit. It sounds like yours is one of them. And like I said, if, if we can fit a three foot passable area, we will. But I believe we had identified that is one that would have to be impacted. And as far as timing, the I will actually speak to schedule right at the end, but this is looking to start construction spring of 2024. And properties that a but or impacted by it would certainly be notified in advance of that. Sometimes that does happen like if the project calls for tree trimming or vegetation pruning sometimes people prefer to have their own landscape or go out and do that, rather than having the construction crew. So that will continue to be coordinated and that's that's the approximate timeline. Okay, and I just have to ask though, if we have a sprinkler system that abuts the, the edge right now. I assume that the cost of moving that is on us as well, or is that something that's covered. If it's encroaching into the right away for the roadway is usually on you. If, if a project impact something that is within your actual defined property that would be covered. Okay. And so at this point I should just ask my two feet from where the stone is today. So the roadway will be narrow two feet the sidewalk will extend at least three feet beyond where the road edges today. Oh, right three thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, so just sorry there so there was a piece in the chat that was a bit more about like comments about other areas of the neighborhood that could use some, some looking at, and the I will just say that. Thank you for writing that we will all of this is being recorded through not only the video and audio recording but also the chat so we'll definitely had to have that and include that as part of the commentary. I understand there are having some concerns about like Washington street and other areas. Keep going down. But let me, and then let me go to Jacob who's got his hands up. I keep going through the chat messages. Hi, Jacob of Chainsky here. I'd like to go back to the intersection of Dixon and Hanlock. If we can look at that slide actually we're helpful. So first of all, thank you for the plan I think it's really great and I'm glad to see so many current extensions that would slow down the traffic and that is definitely much needed. My comment, well maybe here so this is my personal observation. There's lots of cars driving Dixon Avenue towards the center of our LinkedIn so down hemlock street, especially in the morning and I imagine those are just people rushing to work after dropping the kids off at school. So in order to slow down that traffic, we would basically need to make that turn from Dixon into hemlock, ideally a much tighter radius and your plan is kind of showing the opposite so my question is whether these curb extensions are shown considered to be only other side sort of. I know that it maybe doesn't help making that nice sidewalk flow from one street into another but from the point of slowing down the car traffic over that turn, that would make more sense. So there were a few considerations here. But the radius of this curve we would actually not be changing those two lanes that are shown here, coming northbound on hemlock and then extending on Dixon that is all within existing pavement that is essentially what that curve is today. So what we were trying to do was make the crosswalk more prevalent right at the intersection itself and shorten it as much as possible has a little bit of a diagonal, and it's almost. Like I said that there's some ambiguity in the amount of pavement that's here of who has the right away what's the direction of travel, where could pedestrians be entering from. I'm going to key this up. It sounded like you were recommending alternatively making hemlock through and making Dixon stop. Generally, that is work through with the DPW I don't think we've had that conversation with them specifically, but you do usually look at whichever one has the higher volume and try to accommodate the higher volume with the movement and put the stop control on what's essentially from the subsequent movement. So that is something we'll probably discuss with the DPW a little bit as we continue conversations with them. But just to clarify for you, this is the existing curve. And actually think I have a radius called out there so this the radius on this property line is about 50 feet so this center line is probably about 75. This is actually a very tight curve and something that probably should have advanced speed reduction signs for it. So that is something that we can we can consider in conjunction with the improvements here. Okay, thank you. I mean I'm glad to see that the crosswalk is shortened that's definitely a good idea. Thank you. Alright, excuse me, going back to the chat. Quick, a question I can answer quickly here. There was a question from Stuart whether these slides and plans will be available so that folks can look at more closely at the measurements. Yes. So these, I think these specific images in the slide deck are so later. So, later on once we get towards the end there's actually a project page that mass dot has put together where they have a copy of the plans as they are right now. So preliminary before 25% and also FAQ sheet that I think we have previously put on the town's website. So you will be able to see them there and we're going to share the link for that to everybody who's registered for this meeting. So they'll be up on the, either the town's website or on this mass dot public engagement website where you'll also be able to provide. There's a survey there and also commentary so or you can leave a comment additional comments. So I want to go to Eliza and to read a chat about the tree committee is concerned about mature and healthy trees being removed and that there will be no room for planting new street trees after construction. You know, because the, you know, TPW in the tree department is working hard to plant the trees to minimize urban heat island effects. So, as I guess, has there been, you know, additional three trees been considered as part of this project. I'm very glad that question was brought up I did mean to mention that and, and I must have glossed over it. So anywhere where a tree is removed as I mentioned a lot of these trees of the size. are intended to grow within a two foot grass buffer. They have and they provide shade and we acknowledge that and so we want to spare as many as possible. But in any area where we do need to remove existing trees, we would plan to replace those, especially if the grass buffer is contained. Anybody commenting against the grass buffer so it sounds like there's intent to maintain that we can certainly fit street appropriate trees in that grass buffer and then even extending maybe a foot or so into the sidewalk, as I mentioned as wise we have that three foot passable in those pinched areas, we plan to install new trees and any area where we need to remove existing trees. Great. Thank you, Amy. Let's see, and I think I will go. I'll go back to the hands. There's just a few hands left here. So, I noticed, just so you know, I don't know if you want to hit people who haven't had a chance to ask a question. That's a good idea. So I think we'll go to Keith next. Hi, can you hear me. Okay, so I'm Keith Nebly and I'm on the tree committee. So you probably tell what my biases and what I'm interested in as well but I do want to mention and actually a couple of my questions. I think you addressed during Eliza's questions as well so I just have a couple of clarifying points around that. But I do want to say I'm very impressed actually so far you guys have very well thought out you're making it very clear what the trade offs are how we're going to manage those. So my questions around that I think you were getting at so maybe I can just clarify. The ADA sidewalk says five feet you can go to three feet and you can do that for trees as well I guess as long as their people can get by on either side of them right things still pass on either side. And the grass buffer is only two feet. Is that the standard that we're talking about. There are a lot of areas where it's currently as long as foot, or about 18 inches. We recommend that the minimum be two feet and we had actually discussed that with EPW they would like to see those feet. Yeah, so we were looking at the two feet without having more significant right away impacts that's about all we can get because it's a 40 foot right away. So if we come on either side you will get the five foot sidewalk the two foot buffer you've got the curve that's seven and a half feet on each side leaves you with a 25 foot roadway. Okay, so just one more thing it's interesting so we're still at least two years away from starting construction. You know, as part of the tree committee in the town is routinely planting along that time it'd be really good if we could sort of keep in touch with what this plan is so if we plant in this area, we're not going to get impacted by the construction as well. And it does look like there's opportunity to plant in that area as well between now and then. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Okay, now we'll go to Susan. Let's see my video. Okay. Can I start my video, I guess not. I could see earlier but we can hear you at least. I'm also on the tree committee Susan stamps. I live in East Arlington where it's flat. And I walked the project site, a couple of days ago, and what a beautiful area of town I wish I lived there honestly. And one of the first things I noticed about it was how many trees there are in the shade is wonderful. And I think it's pretty tragic to be taking down all those trees we. My, my friend and I who are walking it estimated the size of the trees as we were walking along there are eight of them. And they range in size from 15 inches to 20 to 25 to 36 to 50. These are big old trees that provide a lot of shade. And it would be kind of an ironic tragedy to have trees taken down and nice sidewalks put in and but nobody wants to walk there because it's really not pleasant to walk along those, those barren streets. So I would like to see and I appreciate you have shown sensitivity about the trees and I appreciate that you wanted to hear what people thought about the impact of trees. My suggestion, I had a couple of specific suggestions, one would be that Amy that the thought you had about Mount Nav, making it one way that would save those two nice trees that are slated to come down. And, and that's pretty much the only shade I noticed on that road. And so I think that would be really great to do it that way. And the other area that we particularly noticed, and again, I'm not really I had never walked this area before so it was a long hemlock. That's where these two big huge trees were a 50 inch, I think you've mentioned this tree before I think you should. I think you might be looking at these two I've got up on the screen. Yeah, I mean it's, you know, it's probably 150 years old, and and then the one right down the street permit on the same block is 36 inches. Well again we estimated these, but it just seems that now Arlington is known throughout the state as being a leader on climate change planning. And trees are an integral part of climate change planning because they take up tons of carbon, they clean the air they respirate moist air that makes people feel good. They help control stormwater we could go on and on. So, it would be really sad to lose any more trees that are absolutely necessary and on that block where that those two huge lending trees are the 50 inch and the 36 inch. Right across the street is what seems like a perfectly good sidewalk. So I'm not clear as to why you would have to take down these old granddaddy trees for I don't know why they're coming down. I do notice the utility poles are on the other side of the street and maybe that's why it's, it makes it more complicated, but I would argue that weighing the environmental cost of losing the trees versus the monetary cost of having to replace the utility poles or whatever you have to do. I don't know why you made that decision, but it's more important to save the trees. And I think that was. Yeah, that was just generally I would like to see trees made a very high priority for the benefit of the neighborhood and the benefit of Arlington as a whole. We are still even though we're planting a lot of trees and we're making builders pay for trees that they cut down. We're still we still have a net loss. Right. So, thank you very much. I appreciate we certainly appreciate that I will point out one more time the thing that gets tricky if we eliminate sidewalk on the east side or the extent of sidewalk eliminated on the east side. We have to create more crosswalks and crossings across hemlock. So you're just having some trade off there where you're having more areas where pedestrians have to cross hemlock, as opposed to continuing along hemlock. So we are considering that as we move forward. Again, did you have any more written comments or should we take it looks like Stuart has one. I have. I mean it's a lot of comments and questions chatted to me that are from some of the same people have made comments already but. So I think one of so let me I'm looking at some of these. I think there's a good question that I think we talked about when we were in the field. Yes. Paul asks, will pine street be narrowed at hemlock and will stop sign be added as a very large crosswalk and cars don't stop and turning on the hemlock from pine street. Yep, so we were looking the east side or the south side. As I mentioned, this is kind of rotated but this site it's hard to extend the radius as a driveway right on the corner there that we have to make sure we maintain access to. There's a wall on the left side so we are looking at narrowing this some to choke up the pine street approach a little bit. We also really want to shorten this crosswalk so we proposed was actually wrapping side walk around the corner here. We provide space for one car length at the stop bar so that way if someone's waiting to fall on the hemlock they're not blocking the crosswalk itself, and then put the crosswalk at a position that makes it a more direct movement. A shorter crossing point gets it a little bit more protected there, and we are able to choke up that intersection a little bit, but not quite as much as we'd like to, unless we pretty drastically alter the driveway here and the access to that residence. Thank you. That's that's a tough, tough intersection. Let me see here. So I know Stuart you've got your hand up and I know you would ask a question do you want to ask your question, just live here, or do you want me to read it. You could read it, that would be fine. He was just asking at Hemlock Street slash Dixon. Does the plan indicate a yield or stops on and Hemlock before it continues going down the hill. So I guess is there some intersection control plan for there. So the way we've proposed realigning this we had a stop control on Hemlock coming south hemlock to Dixon the curve there would have a full movement. And I think we would talk a little bit earlier about sort of the. The current radius, which one has the higher volume and that that is actually pretty tight radius will probably put some speed advisory signs in that area. Thank you. Okay, so I think I don't see anybody's hands up there is. Some people lost comments on people's last question so let me just go down and look through a few more questions I think. Let me let me check on this one. Amy is asking will the school zone signage be extended out for the stretch of Dixon between pheasant and mountain, essentially the block that the school is on. I'm not terribly familiar with some of the school zone requirements but I don't know Amy if you can speak to a school zone. I was going to say as we extend the sidewalk network, this certainly becomes a more highly activated part of the school zone so we will be looking at where the signages today and move it is appropriate to make sure it covers that that primary walkable movement that we're trying to accommodate. Okay, so there was a comment here about the 91 Dixon. It's more of a comment so we will definitely capture that again with the chat messages are being recorded here. Let's see. Okay, so I know Elizabeth has your hand up and you asked a few questions in the chat so do you want to just go ahead. Yeah, truly it should this is the chats just notes for other things that you might want to consider and pass on to the engineers in terms of the things that in the road the question is in there is also a lot of underground the gas line goes right over there as well as some other underground utilities and I just wanted to make sure I'm sure you guys already had that in your plan and already taking it taking into account but again that's that space that's coming up the intersection of hemlock and Dixon the gas line goes right up there a water line is there and some other things where that fire hydrant is so just if you're digging there there's a gas line that is problematic. Certainly appreciate the comment or surveyors did capture the utilities in the area. So as we move forward with more particularly the curve line readjustments in particular areas that will be reviewed. And then the initial submission to mass dot the 25% that we're wrapping up for next month will have a utility poor nation meeting so the owners of all the utilities in the area will do a walkthrough as well with us to see if they can see any anticipated impacts. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so let's see. I think we're we're things are slowing down so I think we're getting towards the end here. We do want to recognize you got a chat from Montserrat about again about sort of Washington street and and some other issues in the neighborhood. So I'm just going to go down and see if there's any other let's see. So yes any any comments you know again recorded in the chat and I think the last question I see here is from Lydia. Let's see. Has there been any observation done as to which side of the street pedestrians actually travel on I live on the west side of hemlock. I don't observe families traveling on the east side. Between Brattle and lands down especially since the east side sidewalk stops after lands down. So that probably lends itself to the build it and they shall come. When we did our observations. We saw people crossing, certainly from your scene knows farm Janet road. And lands down to get to the west side and then they walked up the west side. We observed several families with dogs with strollers kids walking bicycles. So there's definitely use out there. It does seem like people are not stray walking, they are getting themselves to the nearest available sidewalk and walk along that as much as they can. But we think if it were extended along the east side, people utilize that as well. Great, thank you. And then just want to recognize that there is definitely a lot of support for preserving the trees where we can so thank you very much for that. I think I don't see any more chats. I don't know, did Amy or Tim did you receive anything directly to you. I guess I'll think directly to me. Okay, I guess it all came to me. Okay. I didn't have my open because I was sharing. But yeah, that's okay to. Okay. They may have sent them to you as well I'm just seeing something already covered. Yeah, someone mentioned the fire hydrant and the utility poles specifically. Okay, and then I just got the compliment. Okay. And then another comment from Tom just again, supporting putting the sidewalk on the school side of mountain have if that's possible, if we can work through that. So, I think that's everything thank you. We're getting pretty close to the end of the meeting at any rate. And I will just answer this last question just came in about the minimum width for parking. I guess, usually for marking parking lanes out like on the street, usually do seven or eight feet width, like on Massa for example in the center. Usually they're seven or eight feet. I think on like a local street like this. But still, I think sort of the minimum you'd expect for the width of just simply to the width of a vehicle. But is that generally what you're looking at Amy when you're looking at whether parking is. Interesting. Yeah. That's and I kind of commented about that previously there's no official parking lane. So this road is about 24 to 26 feet wide hemlock and parking is not prohibited. So, technically parking is allowed on either side, although there isn't truly with for it. And I think that was the conversation that we've had so far with the DPW and the fire department was if we went any narrower than 24, they would certainly want to see parking prohibited. They want signage that parking is truly prohibited in that stretch. Great. Thank you. All right, so I will think we're going to move on to close out now so really thank you everyone for the last questions and I think there's some really good questions and I hope everyone's gotten a better idea of the project and what's what's happening. And moving on to this more project information so as part of this. And also, again, working with mass dot and their other consultant they've created this sort of project information page they call it a story map where essentially you can sort of scroll down through a page and look at different maps and also some of the information that we've already shared here tonight including the 2019 information about how many children were walking to school. The collection effort and also the materials like some of the preliminary documents you know that Amy has shared here so all of these. So I think Amy or Tim if you can share this link in the chat and you can't really click on it here. But this will go out. I can send it to everyone who registered for this meeting and there is at the very once you get through everything. At the very bottom of the page is a comment form. Well, first, first is the survey that asked some specific questions. And then there's a comment form where you can leave like a more long form type of comment. They're two separate things so you can do either. If you want but it would be great if you want to do both. The survey sort of asked more about preference about how concerned you are about say like parking impacts or tree impacts and so on so we can get some more information through there so we will share those through the town's website on Friday. Excuse me after the holiday tomorrow. And you can also sign up for updates about the project you can put in your email address may at mass that will collect that and they can send out project updates you don't have to. To get into the to see the page and everything you can enter anonymously if you want you just I think would need to put in your zip code. So they do collect some information like that. So I think that's all and then on the next page I think Amy you talk about the schedule. Alright, I see Tim has shared both of those links one for the Pima story map and one for a direct link to the survey. So feel free to pull those click on those from the chat will close out the meeting. And the last thing we wanted to go through was just a quick explanation of the schedule I touched on this a little bit earlier as far as when construction starts but to let you guys know the 25% design is due to mass dot coming up next month. Following that mass dot will review, they'll give us any comments they have, and then they will host design public hearing so that will be an opportunity for everybody who came tonight and you know anyone else you want to tell about the project of the meetings another opportunity for you to give us feedback. We'll go over a presentation of what the official 25% design is at that point, and then Garner more input to see how things should continue to progress. If the public appreciates the approach we've taken, we can go from there. The project is set to advertise at the end of 2023 construction starting spring 2024, and it is anticipated construction will definitely take all of 2024 and likely extend a little bit at least into the spring of 2025. So it was the last thing we had to cover. I certainly appreciate everybody's attendance, your time your input. Well thought out questions. Definitely. Thank you and thank Principal Hannah for coming and, and everyone for attending. And thank you very much certainly. I think my information is contact information is on all the public engagement so certainly if you have any more questions, please let me know. And with that, I think we'll end the meeting. Thank you very much and have a good evening. Thank you.