 Welcome to Eyes on Hawaii on the Think Tech Live streaming network series, broadcasting from our downtown studios at Pioneer Plaza at the core of downtown Honolulu. I'm your host, Carol Cox. Joining me in the studio is Ms. Bridget Hamakwis and Ms. Eileen Ketcheland, actually by Skype. And today we're going to be talking with Ms. Hamakwis and Ms. Ketcheloin about the deal at the Department of Health and the Big Island Dairy. Remember that our talk shows are streamed live on the internet from 12 noon to 5 o'clock PM every weekday. And earlier shows are streamed all night long. All our shows are streamed in livestream.com. If you want to links to our live streams or previous broadcasts which are available on youtube.com or if you want to subscribe to our programs or get on our mailing list and get our program advisories, go to thinktechhawaii.com. If you want to pose a question or comment during one of our shows, please tweet us at Think Tech High, that's Think Tech H.I. Well, thank you for joining me and this is Eyes on Hawaii. We talked last week about the subject of the Big Island Dairy and some of the issues that were going on and the impacts and the environmental impacts that were taking place there. And we had some of those community members, or one community member. And we had Ms. Bridget Hammerquist on with friends of Mahau Ulepu from Kauai. Now we decided to do another story on this because since that story, there was a recent development. The State of Kauai Department of Health fined the Big Island Dairy some $25,000 for some of the alleged violations of the Clean Water Act. And other violations and some compliance issues. So having said all that, let me welcome, I guess, Ms. Bridget Hammerquist and Ms. Eileen Ketzloin. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. Hi, Carol. Nice to be with you. Hello. Yes. Well, you should be all smiles, at least with your hard work and there's nothing to laugh about it. Actually, we should be crying, I guess, when we share with the public what we found and what has been tolerated for these years of contamination, pollution, and the impact on the community. So why don't you introduce yourselves and tell us how you got involved with this briefly and where are we going from here and is this a good thing? Okay, Carol. I'm Bridget Hammerquist and I've served now for three years as a President of Friends of Mahau Ulepu with grassroots community-based organization here on Kauai that has been very concerned about the quality of our drinking water and our ocean and our streams that's been threatened by a proposed industrial dairy similar in size to the Big Island Dairy, O'Kala on the Big Island, and unbeknownst to us that dairy started operating in 2014 and the community there was reporting wastewater through their streams and into their actual villages, into their homes, into their yards as early as June 2014 and prior to that. So within months of Big Island Dairy's commencing operation, they have manure wastewater right in their yards and they complained about odor, they complained about the manure, they complained about the contamination of their drinking water being a risk and the state came out and spent three days inspecting and found waste was actually running from the dairy through their village and out to the ocean. So it confirmed what the people had reported, but then the state didn't do anything about it. So years went by and they had other floods and the state was back there in 2016, still nothing was done and someone from the community just happened to find our website. They found us, we didn't find them. There are a small community, they don't have a website yet, but they were searching and they found ours and they sent us an email and said, you guys are doing a good fight over there, please keep fighting because you don't want in Kauai what we're experiencing on the Big Island. And that's how it started. I emailed the gentleman back and said who are you, what are you talking about, what's happening and then we were told what they've been suffering with and that there was another community meeting happening, not their first, but another and he said, maybe you'd like to come and hear what we're going through and learn more for your fight. And I said, oh, we'd love to do that. And so that's how the affiliation between what they now call their Kauai Ohana and the Ohana of Ocala formed. And doing this response to this email that you received, we actually travel, I went with you and others to document and to investigate what was transpiring and what took place. And what we found was absolutely nightmarish when you can common sense things that should never be taken place, for example, the spraying of the manure water and onto the area that supposedly were for crops. But we found that, consistent with what the state had found in earlier, that it was running down into the streams and down into the coast and on the cliffs and what have you. So tell us, I remember while we were traveling down the highway, the three of us or the five of us in a van and we see this and we see this sprinkler system and immediately we decide to do an about face because that was something quite obvious. Quite sure it was wrong to be spraying cow manure, laden water into the air and the homes down below. So Eileen, you recall that moment where we both in a hurry, the rush back. Yes, and how we flipped the Yui to get back there because I went on my cell phone and looked up the wind speed. And at the time it was 16, I took a screenshot of it. And 16 mile an hour winds is not a time to be spraying. And this is a cannon type sprayer. So it's spraying a huge stream way up into the air and it was blowing everywhere. And it was brown. And it was brown. You could tell it had manure in it. I mean, it wasn't, there was no issue that it was wastewater. So the bacteria was becoming airborne. And aerosol. And so that brought on a bigger problem because what was happening brings on illnesses and airborne bacteria that is generated potentially breathing in and what have in. People have been reportedly sick and then one they believe without full confirmation yet is that one has become ill and actually is deceased now because of this or some connections to it. We don't have the medical records to show that. But it was consistent with what people are concerned with. And then there's a bigger problem, the rat lung disease that is showing up. And the snail, the semi snail that was noticed to be increased in population once it's flowing of manure and wastewater down into the community. That's the semi slug. And a lot of the residents over there have noticed that they went from having none to having an abundance of them and having them crawl up the side of their house. And they take, fill in their patios, going in their vegetable gardens and crawling all over their vegetables. Recently, one of the residents sent me a video of her backyard at night. And we found like a two foot square. I counted 11 semi slugs and she has her garden. This was on her garden. Yeah, they've had to stop eating their vegetables, Carol. Not just because of the contaminated water, but because of these semi slugs. And you'll recall, Carol, you videoed one woman who came to the meeting. And that was her first complaint. You know, before the manure came into her yard with one of the floods. She said, I never saw these snails. And now they're everywhere and I can't get rid of them. And then we went online and did some research and found out that 75% of the slugs over there are contaminated with rat lung worm. And it's a parasite. And then we checked with the University of Hawaii campus. There's two researchers in Hilo. And they confirmed that Ocala has a particularly large population of semi slugs. They'd already been out and they were researching around the island to track and find out where they were. And they'd already identified Ocala as a place where there's a specially large concentration of these semi slugs, but they didn't know the people. The researchers didn't realize that that community has suffered several floods with manure, mud, wastewater from the dairy running freely into their yards, under their homes and several places into the homes. And there is a direct connection between waste and these semi slugs. They like manure. They like rat manure. They like any kind of manure. And so they are attracted now to those yards and they're living there in a greater number than ever. Now, we talked about that to some degree. Let's go back to the actual legal action that was taken against the big island dairy by the Department of Health. $25,000 assessed. Do you believe that that is sufficient or do you believe what they're requiring of them now after the fact? And do you think that until they come into compliance, should they be required to reduce their herd or shut down completely? What about those particular points? Well, based on what we've read of what's happened elsewhere in the US, I think they need to either reduce the herd or they need to get wastewater treatment trucks in to reduce their effluent ponds. Because every time the state goes, they describe their effluent ponds as being at nearly capacity. And they talk about this overflow, emergency overflow channel that the dairy never got permission to build. And it's going, as they call it, an emergency spillway channel. And it's going from their largest lagoon, their 2.5 million gallon lagoon, into the Oja Oja Gulch stream, which is one of the places the state now has confirmed they've visibly seen the wastewater running through that gulch into the ocean. And they've tracked it from the dairy running through the gulch on the west side of the property, the Alaia Loa Gulch. So there's no question this dairy is leaking manure wastewater into the streams, the waters of the state, into the waters of the US, the ocean, and on its way through the community of Oja Oja. So they've got to reduce the wastewater volume in those ponds. I see no other solution. Or they've got to migrate the herd out of there and get a more manageable number so they are not overflowing their pond. They don't have a national pollution elimination system permit, which is being required by this violation citation. And if you have more than 699 cows, you're supposed to have one. Well, you're supposed to have one if you discharge. If you discharge. And they've discharged. They've moved that. So they need to thin their herd, and they need to pump out and clean their effluent ponds. And the only way they're going to do it is through honey bucket trucks type thing and getting it off of the property. And take it to wastewater treatment facility. Carol, it's ridiculous. Eileen has a quote here, but their upper effluent pond has a thick batch on the top of it. It's full of manure solids. It hasn't been drained since 2012 when they bought the place. They found it full. And yet that upper pond, according to the farm manager and the owner, is the first place they're pumping all their wastewater into. Now, how do you pump into something that's already full? You know it's going to overflow. The state's been there twice. And they've seen it overflowing. They've seen the kaka water all over the ground. So this is not a mystery. This is not difficult to assess. But they didn't do anything in 2014 because the community didn't know how to make noise. Carol, people in Cala didn't even know that they could order themselves. They could request DOH lab to come out and test for their water quality. But they didn't talk a lot of do that. And we actually covered the cost for them. When they caught the water test at Carol, it was off the Richter scale with peak of bacteria. So I, the lab called me and said, I didn't know what you guys wanted to do with these results, but I have to tell you, I've got to report it to the state. I said, oh, absolutely. We would want it reported. We don't want to keep a lid on it. We're trying to help them expose what they've been suffering with and what they've been exposed to. Two little children, one year old twins. Yeah, well, here's a situation with this bridge. Okay, down with Salmonella. I mean, can you hear me? You know what? The Department of Health is calling in the parents, saying it was a bad Salmonella. And the parents, they want to know where the parents had the kids. They're looking at the parents as if somehow the parents are responsible for the Salmonella. They called me up on Sunday. They said, what do we say to the Department of Health? I say, you tell the Department of Health to come test that air because the doctor told the husband of the woman who died that she got airborne bacteria and he doesn't know how she contracted it. She became septic and she's 42 and she's dead. Are we gonna have to take a break, Bridget? One year old twins are safe. Hold that thought. We're gonna take a break here shortly. And there's so much to talk about. So what I will say, we'll be back in a short bit and we'll take up this discussion of the Big Island Dairy and the penalties assessed by the Department of Health, state of Hawaii, some $25,000. Is that enough or is that just a drop in the bucket? And should the public be required to police this business when in fact we have a regulatory body in place that allow this to happen? So we'll be back and we'll take a short break. Aloha, my name is Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I'm the host of Shrink Rap Hawaii where I talk to other shrinks. Did you ever want to get your head shrunk? Well, this is the best place to come to pick one. I've been doing this. We must have 60 shows with a whole bunch of shrinks that you can look at. I'm here on Tuesdays at three o'clock every other Tuesday. I hope you are too. Aloha. Okay, we're back and this is the Carol Cox on Eyes of Hawaii and we're basically talking about the Big Island Dairy and the impacts that it has on the community of Ocala. My guest is Ms. Bridget Hamakwish and Ms. Aileen Ketchelowen from Kauai. Now they had, why are they involved? Well, you see, they were threatened with in the Kauai community, the island of Kauai. There was a proposed dairy there and they were able to legally challenge it and so far beat it back in a sense, but you can just never know. But with all the promises, they had alarms to go off there on Kauai and the alarms were the environmental concerns, the environmental impacts and all of those things. And so this group was quite sharp. Friends of Mahaa Olepu. And let me tell you, they were right folks because the enforcement that we found lacking in Ocala or the Big Island Dairy is absolutely, something is absent, something is missing. So ladies, thank you for joining me again and let's go at it. You had a couple of points that you wanted to talk about. I wanted to go over and read some quotes that came out of the notice of violation that was given to Big Island Dairy from the Department of Health, just last Friday. However, the CNMP drawings for the lagoons specified 7 million gallons capacity, which differs than the 2.5 million gallon volume capacity stated by Big Island Dairy representative. It does not include, as well, an overflow spillway. So the CNMP is their management plan that was submitted to Department of Health and approved. And they were supposed to follow it. And they obviously haven't. 2.5 million gallons versus 7 million gallons that's a long ways. And then the Department of Health goes on to say that the exact as-built drawings of the lower lagoon and overflow spillway were not reviewed as a component of the inspection. And I have a big question, why not? That would tell exactly how many, but they go on to say that Mr. Duff stated that he did not believe the standing water which they saw in the overflow. In the lower lagoon spillway was from the lagoon. But from stormwater runoff from up gradient land caused by recent heavy rainfall. This was inconsistent with the statement made by Big Island Dairy representatives during the opening conferences when they stated that the lagoons do not receive stormwater runoff. Why they don't receive stormwater runoff? I don't know because they are downhill. So they don't get it and another point they're claiming they do get it. Now the CNNP, there was one supposed to be in place already that was before it's opening. At least the one has the 7 million gallon effluent pond. So why was it not in place? They're not following it. They're not following it. So the penalty then is they have to now do a new one. So that's not very promising if they've been allowed to operate knowing they had submitted one and whether completely incomplete, they'd submitted one and yet the state allowed them to operate that way. So I think you're justified in your actions and your aggressiveness toward this issue on your island because as they promise, it will be an aggressive enforcement regulatory body on this, that's the Department of Health and other agencies. And here Big Island Dairy is operating without any of these controls or things that are in place. So what do you say? Three years without adequate regulatory action. I mean even the chief of the wastewater branch was unhappy because nobody told her that was going on and nobody said, you're not there and you know they didn't build it as to the plans that were approved. This is a violation, she said to them. You know Carol, you've got her emails and why they didn't review the As Built Plans we couldn't find when we did our request for documents we couldn't find any As Built Plans with the Department of Health. So I don't think the Dairy ever took back to the Department of Health which they're obligated to do under the law. They're obligated to let the department know if they changed the plans that were approved. It says it right in the regulation, the guideline that they have to let the department know and we can't find that they did let the department know that they built it differently than what was approved. But wouldn't you, if you were- It's not a situation with the upper lagoon. But if you were this Dairy and you could get away with this, I mean whose fault is it? Is it the State Department of Health who has a regulatory and fiduciary responsibility? It's as if we're suggesting that well they didn't they did as much as they could to get away with it. But the bigger question that looms over us all why isn't our regulatory body, the agency on top of this and they're permitting this activities and then just sit back on their thumbs and allow it to develop inexcusable. You know Matt Curano explained to the community they have five people I think he said that work in enforcement for the whole state of Hawaii and their job is to follow up on every complaint for wastewater discharge whether it's from a veterinary hospital whether it's from a power plant whether it's from a county. The only problem is they never do a complete inspection. Like the first time in 2014 they didn't take any water samples when they should have to find out. And right now they should be taking regular water samples because it is polluted. Yeah, but I think they knew what was there in 2014. He didn't have to take samples because Neil Mukai did a good report and he said it smelled like manure, it looked like manure and it was brown water running through the community and he traced it all the way back up to the dairy. And so he actually concluded in his report correctly. But they didn't do anything. No, they didn't take a rate. No, but he sent his findings to Honolulu and the Honolulu staff who are the enforcement. They didn't do anything. He did everything he could on the big island, the DOH representative there. And I think, Carol, you might have met him when we were in O'Connor. Yeah, well, one of the things I'm thinking back as we did that helicopter flight and that flyover. You can see the water in the, I mean putrid water in the canals or in the gullies in the gulches. And then you fly over and we go down in the helicopter and go to the cliffs and here we are seeing stained, the color of cow manure on the face of the rocks on the cliffs. Then to really drive home to point that something is out of whack here, we find, what do we see? A plume. Now, this is a time to get off your duff for the state, $25,000 sounds like a lot of money, but then what is the irreversible impacts on the environment and the people in the community? Is it worth $25,000? And my suggestion to the friends of Mahalapuk, keep fighting and don't drop your guards because one of the basic faults that I see in this whole process is that they say they don't have enough manpower. They don't have enough money. Well, then they need to get out there and tell someone this and they need to be in the legislature asking for more money rather than wait until the public get deprived of their rights for clean air, clean water, clean life, be able to guard and sustain themselves. Instead, they tell us we don't have any money. And that plume that you saw from the air and you've got great pictures of, Carol, of the phytoplankton in the ocean, that's exactly what blooms when you put extra manure into the ocean. Nutrients form what they call eutrophication and all of a sudden these extra algae and phytoplankton develop and it was a huge plume. And remember the pilot said nowhere else on the whole coast of that Tamakua area could you see anything like that except right in front of the Ocala? Well, I don't want to use a term vindicated because I believe you were right in your first action that you took on Kauai to fight this dairy over there because we have the same regulatory body that is handling this. And look what we have, we have plumes. That's what you complain about and are concerned about on Mahalolepu while Peely Ditch stream, right? So these things are coming home to roost these chickens. And it's gonna go down from Mahalapu down to Poipu which is one of the favorite beaches in the world where little kids swim because they have a little kiddie pool. And that little kiddie pool only has water coming in. It doesn't have good circulation. So we just can't have it out at Mahalapu. Yeah, I applaud you for doing what you've done because, and you didn't just restrict yourself to your community, you took it to the other island, the big island, and I applaud you for that because there's solar power, nuclear power and there's people power and you got people power. Thank you. Anything else on this, this about the upper lagoon? Because there's an older upper lagoon that was in place when they bought in 2012. In 2012. And this is what's in the state report. Yeah. We gotta have one minute so make sure you go and refer it. Vegetative map on the surface of the upper lagoon prevented the facility employees from accessing the lagoon for cleaning. The upper lagoon had not been cleaned since the current owners purchased the facility in 2012. The vegetative map is gonna have to go all the way down. There's no room in there. They're saying there's a million gallon room. At least that's what the dairy was telling us. There's no room. There's vegetation in there. Well, we'll have to take this up again because 30 minutes is not enough to go through this whole thing. But thank you for joining me, but thank you more than that for the fight that you're helping this community and helping the environment and helping all of us. I really appreciate it and publicly declare that. So thank you. Well, thank you, Carol. Alrighty. Thanks. Okay, we're out of time and we'll have to wrap it up. I'm Carol Cox. This is Eyes on Hawaii on the Think Tech Live Streaming Network series. We've been talking with Ms. Bridget Hamakwis and Ms. Aileen Ketzel about interpreting and discussing the NOV issued by the Hawaii State Department of Health on the Big Island. Thanks to you, Ms. Hamakwis and Ms. Ketzel Owen for being here. Thanks to our broadcast engineer, floor manager, and to Jay Fidel, our executive producer who puts it all together. And thanks to you, our viewers and listeners. If you want to be on our email and social media program advisors, click the link on thinktechhawaii.com. If you'd like to be a guest, underwriter or a volunteer, if you want to join us in our downtown studio here in Pioneer Plaza, contact Jay at thinktechhawaii.com. That's J-A-Y at thinktechhawaii.com. If you want the links to our live streams or our previous broadcasts or use stream TV or YouTube.com, just go to thinktechhawaii.com. Go there to our Facebook page and tell us that you like us. We'd love you to like us. And of course, I'll see you next Tuesday for more on Eyes on Hawaii. On Thinktech, I'm Carol Cox. Aloha and thank you.