 I'm James Milan and this is our series Justice in the Balance. Today we are getting to talk to Middlesex County's District Attorney Marion Ryan who, like the rest of us, is at home and checking in. We are so appreciate you're taking the time to be with us today. First of all, before we get down to business and there's much business to talk about, we are always interested to find out, hey, how are you in particular weathering these extraordinary circumstances under which we all live at the moment? How is it going for you? My understanding is that you're a very active person so it must be strange for you to be spending so much time at home. It is never home this much, so it is very different. The work of our office continues and we've just been adjusting like everyone, excuse me, to doing that remotely. So we're busy on a lot of fronts with that, but definitely miss the personal contact. I miss being out in the community, being in schools, things like that. So looking forward to seeing people again. Yeah, you are, as we know, as a district attorney, a constant presence in many, many communities and, you know, we're lucky here in Arlington to have seen you fairly regularly over these years. So we look forward to when we get to do that again. All of us do, obviously. You were saying that your, you know, the operations of your office continue as best they can. Tell us a little bit more about what kinds of adjustments you're needing to make, what kinds of things are moving or working in the same way as they always have and what aren't. So of course the courts themselves, the physical buildings are closed, but one thing that I think people need to really know is that the work of the court continues. And really to the credit of my staff and to the court staff, they've adjusted pretty quickly and with really little warning to doing this all remotely. So we have, we had two things that were really very fortunate in middle sex. Right at the beginning of January, we had convened a group of our law enforcement partners. It was my view at that point that, you know, you always have to be anticipating these kinds of crises and we needed to be putting together a good strategic plan should something happen. Obviously, never envisioning it would be a pandemic. So we were fortunate in that by March, we had already had an opportunity to be doing a lot of work on that. And in addition, one of the things that works really well here in middle sex is the relationship we have, not only with our law enforcement and first responders, but also with the sheriff, because one of the concerns that came up pretty quickly as we've seen, unfortunately in nursing homes and other places is once the virus gets in, it spreads very fast. And obviously our house of correction and our state facilities are a place that we were concerned about. So really, even before we had the shutdown, the sheriff and I had started working together about how would we respond to something like this? And what would we do about trying to reduce our jail population, especially our pretrial, the folks that were being held before they'd been tried? And we put that part of the population, right? It was a big part of the population. And that is even keeping in mind that in middle sex County, we do not ask for cash bail, unless it's our expectation that we will be asking for jail sentence at the end of the case. So already the number of people where we're asking for cash bail is very reduced. And we started in the second week of March, I guess, starting to come to agreements, reaching out to defense council, we had reached out to the committee for public council and started saying to them, who are a list of people you want us to look at? And then we were, of course, doing our own list. But there would be things that we wouldn't necessarily know, for instance, somebody's medical condition or something like that, that the committee was providing us with. So we have as of last Friday heard had heard over 300 of those motions. And it was really when the case came up before the Supreme Judicial Court, when people statewide were raising that, we submitted a filing where we asked the court to do pretty much what they did. We asked them to kind of adopt our model of bringing people together and having those conversations. And they did something very similar to that they appointed a special master to help what we were doing here, which was voluntarily working between the DA's office and the sheriffs, but to have that happen across the county. So we have by now released close to 200 people. The numbers are so greatly reduced, if Bill Ricker, that they've been able to give a lot of people their own cell, which was critical. They've also been able to close one of the dorm wings. So that people are now in a much more individualized space that obviously helps with the spread. So those numbers have really declined dramatically. And I think we've been able to do that in a very collaborative way, obviously keeping in mind the public safety piece as well. Because at the same time, we've been working with our first responders about really only making a rest when the public safety is immediately in danger. So there are things that are happening where it is safe to leave the person out in their own home, and to summon them into court. So we've been doing that a great deal. You know, obviously people being off the street has reduced the number of driving kind of things. We don't have places open late at night, especially places that might be serving alcohol, that sort of thing. So people have less places to be, which are normally draw some criminal activity. But we have seen about a 75 to 80 percent decline in our arrests. So that's obviously helped to keep our numbers down. And really the numbers at Bill Wicker are at pretty historic lows. And it's helped them to really, they've done a good job up there, both in their hygiene practices and separating people to keep pretty much the infection at bay up there. You know, we have recently, as part of this series and others been talking to folks from all different perspectives dealing with what we would call the front lines of pandemic response in different ways. Those include advocates for prisoners, for instance, and the picture that you are offering us of what's happening from from your perspective and at Bill Wicker, for instance, that that stands in some contrast, I have to say to what to the concerns that were expressed by some of the advocates we've spoken to who were saying, you know, these are situations, obviously, just like elder care facilities, situations in which you've got almost a Petri dish for the growth of this, and that more steps need to be taken to of the sort that you've just outlined. So it's interesting just to note that in fact, you see that that that effective steps are being taken to try and safeguard the population both inside, and also limit, as you said, the number of people coming in at that point. So I'll just note that and move on unless you'd like to comment on that at all. Well, I think, you know, a part of that, as I said, is collaboration. We've worked very well together in getting a lot of that done. I think part of it was getting started very early. And you know, the important piece is one of the things is it's obviously you want to protect the folks that are inside the institution, but they all of those institutions have big civilian and officer staffs that come and go as well. So, you know, you want to reduce the chances of them contracting the virus because then they go back out into the community. So this is something, you know, we obviously want to protect the people who are in custody, but it serves all of us to limit the spread of virus in these situations. Absolutely. And again, because we're aware that your time is short, though, I'd love to talk about this a little bit more and perhaps we'll touch on it again a little bit later. I did want to move on to other areas of concern for you. So one of the things again, that in talking to folks dealing with the direct effects of the pandemic, we've noticed is that some of the things that happen all the time and that your office has to deal with all the time have been exacerbated. People are taking advantage of the situation. Well, that reminds me that people are always taking advantage of the situations of vulnerable populations. Your office is a place where the protections for those populations is most robust. Tell us about what's happening in the area. For instance, of scams, which I know is a constant preoccupation for your office. It is. And actually, one of the last public events we did was in Arlington with seniors talking about scams. You know, anytime something happens, there unfortunately are the scammers who both take advantage of people's fear and their generosity. So we've had reports of on the fear side, lots of people reaching out either telephonically or actually showing up at people's doors, both asking questions about the stimulus check that people are expecting. You know, I'm the bank, I'm the federal government confirming your routing numbers, all of that. One thing people should remember is that they're absolutely will not be a call, an email or visit from somebody from the federal government or your bank about those checks. So if someone starts the sentence with I'm from any of those places, I absolutely promise that's a scam. And you should step away from that. And if you feel concerned about it, reach out to the police department, because there is that check is going to just come automatically, you don't need to do anything. You don't need to confirm anything with your bank. So that is totally a scam. The other thing we've been hearing is praying on people's fear about the disease, offering either some kind of at home testing, or even more insidious offering some kind of pill or medication that will prevent you from getting the virus. And we all know that the FDA has not approved any at home testing. And as the World Health Organization has been making clear right now, there is no proven treatment or vaccine. So anybody who's offering you any of those things is purely taking your money. And then on the other side, obviously, there are lots of people suffering during this pandemic, and lots of people who've been incredibly generous, giving food or money or any number of things, that should always come from you. So you should never give to people who are soliciting you. So someone showing up at your door asking for money for the local restaurants or businesses or even first responders, it's unlikely that that money will make its way to where you intended it to go. There are lots of if you go on the websites, the Massachusetts state government is running a COVID-19 relief fund, you can certainly donate there, all of the reliable charities, the Red Cross, all of those places are taking donations, but you should initiate that. And if you're uncertain, you know, reach out to the police department, you can reach out to our office, we're answering our phones, and you can get some information about places that you might want to donate. Great. I mean, do you have, do you want to point people in any particular direction or give them any resource in for contact information at this point, or is it best just for them to contact your office? Well, they can do that. Or the one really general fund is the mass COVID relief fund, which that is showing up really, if you put your television on, it's showing up all over the place, but it's MACOVID19relief.gov. And that is a sort of full service relief fund as well. I'm sure it's a constant challenge for the DA's office to get the word out to the populations you are trying to, you know, again, protect and safeguard, especially elders, etc. Are you finding that you are able to use the same means that you always have now that we are all, you know, physically isolated? Or are you leaning on other kinds of platforms? Are you finding that you're able to get messages such as the one you're giving right now? You're speaking directly to people who are in these positions of susceptibility or vulnerability. Do you feel like you're still able to connect to that audience at this point? We are connecting. We have a pretty robust social media presence. Excuse me. And all the time we've stepped that up, obviously. We are in constant contact with our police chiefs and fire chiefs, getting the message out, getting materials out. We've been looking for new places where people are obviously people can't go to the senior center, but they are going, for instance, to the grocery store. So we've been trying to get our materials out there as well. One of the things, and I hope the viewers will keep in mind, is I always say that these scams thrive in isolation. And we probably all know somebody who's even more isolated right now. And people can really help us by phoning a friend or checking in on a neighbor to make sure that they aren't falling victim to these kind of scams. You had mentioned earlier that there has been a drop, a dramatic drop, and understandably so in what might be called street crime, the kind of crime that, you know, a lot of the time police officers are needing to spend their time following up on. That, of course, makes sense with so few people out on the streets in common meeting places, as you were saying. However, I think what that also means is that there's a lot going on behind closed doors that maybe always happens there, but now people are stuck in those situations. And so I'm wondering, you know, we've talked to some others, again, advocates and frontline people about the kinds of challenges coming for those who are isolated around depression, around mental illness, around just getting along with each other. But one very disturbing thing that we've heard is that there has been an increase in suicides. What can you tell us about that? We have unfortunately seen an increase in suicides over this last five weeks or so. You know, one of the things is, I think, for somebody who might already be struggling with some issues, and maybe is a little more disconnected from the contacts they had before, that can be a very stressful thing. I think all of us, even in the best of situations, may you may be sheltering in place with people you love, feel disconnected. So there's that whole issue. I think sometimes there are people who are concerned about being out, for instance, and filling their prescriptions and getting their medications. So what the message we really want to get to people is there is help out there, it's help in a different form. For instance, people who might need help with their prescriptions. You know, first responders are still willing to be helpful about that. There are all kinds of contactless deliveries that are happening from local pharmacies. That if you're in need of help, there is tele-help that's available. Pretty, I mean, Massachusetts has really done a good job about making a lot of those resources available. And also just encouraging people to try to the extent they can to to focus on the things you can control. I mean, obviously there's a lot we can't control right now. We don't know how long this is going to be, but you can control what you are doing today. You can reach out to people. You can at least get out of your house and get a little bit of fresh air. You can try doing some very small tasks. There's a great rule that a lot of the mental health professionals have been talking to us about the five-minute rule. If you are really feeling overwhelmed, just think about I'm going to do something for the next five minutes and that's often enough to energize you going forward. And then really trying to just focus on the things that you might be able to do in your house or in your garden or whatever it is that give you some pleasure. So I think we all have to be taking extra steps in thinking about our mental health. And for those who are struggling, there really is a lot of help that's out there to talk to people. Are you finding any difference in terms of your office's interaction and intersection with the youth population in particular right now? Have there been any, again, changes due perhaps to the pandemic itself around, again, your relationship with young people? One of the things is that a lot of kids, particularly at risk kids, we've run a lot of affiliated with a lot of programs for instance the U-Tech program, a lot of the boys and girls clubs, all of those things. I think they all share our worry that those are often kids really in need of somebody to talk to in need of services. Cities and towns are doing a pretty good job of getting the nutritional component out there, but obviously kids aren't having that same interaction. That's concerning. It's also concerning to us that we've lost a huge category of mandated reporters for kids who may be being neglected and abused, you know, teachers who see kids five days a week and not seeing those kids. We've been putting out a lot of resources for them in terms of things, even in the Zoom check-ins to be thinking about and watching for because that is a real concern. There are kids that no one is seeing that typically we're out five days a week in a daycare or a school setting. And now they're they're at home in a place that may not be safe for them and also with often a lot of other stressors. Employment, income, all of that. Middlesex County is a kind of more progressive and innovative area that many around certain kinds of things. So diversion programs for youth, for instance, the use of restorative justice as an option. Are these kinds of programs being able to move along in this, you know, I don't know what you want to call it, the COVID-19 era? They are still moving along in the sense that, for instance, just a couple of weeks ago what got a lot of media attention was we had an unfortunate episode in one of our communities with some very racist homophobic graffiti. That case is going to be resolved with the use of restorative justice, the young people that were involved in that. So we've been talking with them, talking with their parents remotely, obviously, getting that agreement, setting that up. We are unable to do the restorative justice community circle right now, obviously, because we can't do that safely. I think as we go along, we are already talking about, is that something that would be effective if we do it the way we're meeting now in a Zoom way? You know, I think as this stretches out, we're going to have to start moving from the temporary to the more permanent. Right. Last thing, I was curious because earlier you were talking about the different ways in which you happened to be better prepared. Some of it's serendipitous and some just good preparation on your part and in terms of collaborating with Serif Kutujian and others. So it seems like the situation here in Middlesex County is pretty good, relatively speaking, on a number of levels. I'm wondering, first of all, well, I guess I've got two things. One is how much do you need to be working with the governor in order to be most effective right now, versus how much really are you able just to do for yourself, because the DA is a very influential, is a very influential figure, for sure. And secondly, how much variety or variation do you see in among the different counties and DA's offices in Massachusetts in terms of how a lot of what we've been talking about is playing out? I think in terms of the governor, obviously we're in contact, you know, with the governor's office and there's a frankly, they have the unenviable task of really being focused primarily right now on the health care piece of all this, in keeping that part going. We will obviously, there'll be more contact in discussions as we're moving into budget season now. So as the district attorney, you're fortunate because we've given our budget and then we really exercise our judgment in terms of using that, you know, it doesn't, it isn't hard to imagine that the budget statewide is going to be pretty severely impacted this year. And the question will be how do we make those accommodations? I think one of the things that this is really illustrated is the importance of our first responders in our health care. And so we can't ever let that leg in the budget and what will we do in other ways to make up what we're spending on that. You know, we're still bringing plain loads of personal protection equipment in. So obviously at some point you're paying for all of that. So there's that piece. In terms of the other counties, you know, we're very fortunate here. As I said, I think we had already built an infrastructure. It's, it's hard to build the plane as you're flying it. So I think for places that didn't already have those relationships that they've had to forge quickly, that's made things more difficult. We've been fortunate here. We had a pretty well-developed technology situation. Our folks had technology that they could pretty easily transition to working at home. And that is not the same in some of the smaller offices. That's been a little bit more difficult. And you just were talking about the fiscal challenges to come or budgetary challenges to come. Any other special challenges as you move forward, as we, as this, as you say, continues to play out and become something that we're going to have to live with as opposed to just react to? Well, I think, you know, one thing we've been talking a little bit is the whole jury system. You know, for at least a short time we could probably do jury trials of a number that would allow for more social distancing. You know, we are fortunate, for instance, in Lowell right now we have a really beautiful brand-new courthouse that has probably more ability to socially distance people than some of our very old courthouses in the county. And I think people, obviously, are going to be much more conscious of that and be maybe a little bit more reluctant to be in that situation. And we're going to have to think about that and how people have constitutional rights. They're going to have to have their trial. How are we going to be able to satisfy that and still accommodate people's legitimate concerns about their own physical safety? Yeah, that's a good point. Finally, just wanted to invite you to either because it was something that we could have or should have talked about and we didn't, or just to address directly the people of Arlington and Middlesex County just to invite you to add in anything at this point before we sign off. I think the thing that I most want people to know in all of this time when things seem out of control is that when it comes to physical safety, I think the folks in Middlesex County are in pretty good shape right now. The courts are open. People needing protection, for instance, restraining orders or dissection somebody who may be struggling with mental health or substance issues. That's all still available. The police and fire departments and really in Middlesex County, the chiefs have done a great job of implementing emergency measures. We've been incredibly fortunate. We have had some folks test positive for the illness, but in the way they've separated the departments. We haven't had any departments really decimated by that. People should not hesitate if they need help to reach out because that help is still here and available. Well, we again want to just thank you for taking the time to spend this time with us. It was highly informative and substantive half an hour. We appreciate it so much. We look forward to talking to you again under more normal circumstances. I look forward to that as well. Thank you for having me. All right, thank you. That's our Middlesex County District Attorney Marion Ryan. I'm James Milan. You're watching Justice in the Balance. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.