 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 3.30 to 4.30 p.m. session of the 2023 Open Simulator Community Conference. In this session, we are pleased to introduce the presentation, Help! I'm Lost in the Metaverse! Our panel is Becky Adams, Ellie Pinyin, Bruce Gross, who is Cooper Swizzle, Shannon Broden, who is Criaccia, Shannon, and Valerie Hill, who's Val Librarian, Greg. Becky is an online higher education educator and the coordinator of the Virtual World's Education Consortium. Bruce ran a five-year 3D-based training program before retiring. He brings a broad spectrum of experience in training and is the VWEC Kitely Ambassador. Shannon is a Masters of Library Science and Information Science student at San Jose State University. She volunteers helping the VWEC with the Metaverse Database Project. Dr. Valerie Hill is a library and information science educator. She is a co-coordinator of the Virtual World's Education Consortium and director of the Community Virtual Library. Please check out the website found at conference.opensimulator.org for speaker bios, details of this session, and the full schedule of events. This session is being live-streamed and recorded, so if you have any questions or comments, you may send tweets to at OpenSimCC with the hashtag pound OSCC23. Welcome, everyone. Let's begin the session. Thank you, Lear. And welcome everyone to Help! I'm Lost in the Metaverse. My colleagues and I will share what the Virtual World's Education Consortium has accomplished to help network and collaborate across virtual worlds. And you might notice that they look a bit lost. It can be very confusing when you are trying to navigate across the Metaverse. Now, we hope that you will have questions for us. We hope that you will have some feedback, and we'd like to ask for you to hold those questions until the end. Here we are in OpenSim. We hope you're enjoying the OSCC 2023 conference. Some of you have hypergrid jumped from other grids. I'd like to ask you to type in the local chat an estimate of the number of virtual worlds where you have created an avatar. I'm going to estimate I've created at least 15 across the Metaverse. In the hypergrid worlds, in some of the VR worlds, type an estimate of your avatar number. Some of us go on monthly events to different virtual worlds with or without headsets to explore the Metaverse for education. I'm noticing some numbers. Ellie says maybe 10 avatars. Kayaker 12. I see two, nine. I have more than 25, says Lear, and at least eight Lear Lobos. So often we bump into our avatars in other virtual worlds. We may even forget that we have one in a particular world across the Metaverse. Often this question arises. Where is everyone? It can be really empty. Educators and subject experts have been exploring virtual environments for 20 years and more, but many are unaware of the high quality simulations and the projects that have been accomplished. Have you ever explored a beautiful landscape in a virtual world and it feels completely empty? It happens. It's like a ghost town, a beautiful simulation, and people have moved on. People can create amazing places and then they move on and create something else. Or they may have trouble getting others to come and visit what it is they've created. Type a Y in the local chat if you have ever encountered similar projects across worlds that appear to be striving to recreate the wheel. And they don't realize someone else has already accomplished this. Exactly. I'm seeing that. It's either empty. Nobody has come. Or it's something that many people have created and they don't realize someone has already paved this way before. We've found many communities who have collected landmarks to help and share with others. Not realizing that other people were striving to do that very same thing. Creating spreadsheets, note cards with landmark lists, lists on websites, and they're very difficult to maintain because often landmarks change or people move to other grids or they leave that particular project or due to lack of funding, it suddenly disappears. So organizing the metaverse is a daunting task. Archiving the great immersive builds to share what other people have done is a daunting job and librarians like myself are considering ways to help. After 15 years researching how to be a librarian in a virtual environment, the Virtual Worlds Education Consortium has become the perfect opportunity to work together across worlds. We want to help learners and digital citizens of all ages find the best simulations and the best communities to help build them. So I'm going to hand the mic to Ellie Pinion so she can tell us more about VWEC. Thank you, Val. Many of you have heard about VWEC already. We appreciate the opportunity to be here at OSCC and to share more about the Virtual Worlds Education Consortium with you, especially if you haven't heard of us. My first experience in Virtual Worlds was in Second Life through the new Media Consortium in 2007. I met Lear at one of their conferences and was amazed at all that she was doing with her students in a virtual world. Anyone else attend the new Media Consortium NMC conferences? Just say why if you have, because I bump into people all the time who have. Yes. Unfortunately, they no longer exist. They were a great support to online education and its infancy. Honestly, I thought Second Life was very strange, but I was fascinated by the opportunities it offers for students. As I explored, a friend and I got stuck in a bush. We had no idea what a TP was. I couldn't cam over. I didn't know if I could sit nearby. That would work. I also dropped my hair and had no idea how to pick it up as it laid on the ground in front of my abbey. I bumped around things and avatars. I imagine that's similar to what you guys have experienced. I eventually got better at navigating and decided there was potential and I should see how my students would use it. I've been teaching in Virtual Worlds ever since. Then I joined every group I could find, but at first I was a bit lost. Pretty alone and just taught and taught and taught my classes using the great environment and meeting great people and then inviting them to talk to my class, which they were so kind to do. Everyone was so kind and were happy to come and share their approaches. Many have become close friends and colleagues. As I heard other educators stories, they were varied and really interesting. But it was clear that even with the amazing groups that are successful in Virtual Worlds, we often had no idea what others were doing and were often redundant in our needs and work. It has been aptly pointed out that many of us work harder than needed if we could share our resources, experiences and knowledge. We also believe that we are more likely to get challenges solved if we work together. After some initial conversations, we invited key educational groups to meet to talk about how we could collaborate without making more work and more meetings for everyone. And it was important to us to try not to replace all the great work that was already happening. After a couple of conversations, it was clear there was a need for our groups to come together to collaborate and connect so that we are not isolated and reinventing the wheel. Thus, VWEC began in January of 2021. Because we want to be supportive but not add more work to everyone, we have four meetings a year. Each quarterly session focuses on a topic or theme always with the goal of supporting this purpose through collaboration. We agreed on three ideas. A collaborative venture open to all Virtual World educators. Number two, to help all kinds of educators in educational communities, academic, higher ed, K-12 teachers, lifelong learners, etc., who utilize any or all virtual environments. And lastly, to support sharing successes, resources and addressing challenges. In that, VWEC is the virtual worlds with a capital S education consortium. All this is wonderful conference highlights. There is so much going on in many diverse worlds. We all learn from each other and we are excited about the great work that is happening around the metaverse. And we are so pleased to be able to work together to promote teaching and learning through these amazing and very supportive platforms. In that, I do want to thank OSCC for this wonderful conference as you bring us all together as well. Because we know that we cannot be in every world effectively, it became clear that we needed to find ambassadors with similar passions to support all the educators doing great work in the individual virtual worlds around the metaverse. We are so fortunate to have Cooper Swizzle step up for us in Kitely. I'd like to turn it over to Cooper, our very first VWEC ambassador, who is doing a wonderful job in Kitely. He will share our recent accomplishments. Over to you, Cooper. Good afternoon, evening, morning, wherever you're all at. I am Cooper Swizzle and today I'm really excited to share with you the updates from the VWEC Kitely world. We actively participated at promoting us and Second Life at the OS Fest in 2023. I'm trying to get my footing here. Sorry, folks. Because we wanted to make sure people knew about us. We also joined a boat flotilla where we created a boat that represented VWEC for Open Sims. The Kitely VWEC education consortium started approximately April 2023 and I'm proudly serving as the VWEC Kitely ambassador. Starting this January, we'll be hosting our quarterly meetings like they do in Second Life at 9 o'clock, Second Lifetime, but to better accommodate diverse time zones, we've also included a 5 o'clock one. We're looking ahead to 2024 and we have two exciting projects in the world. First, we're planning, excuse me, a VWEC Kitely conference where individuals will showcase their contributions to Open Sim similar to this OSCC that we're doing right now and our aim is to generate momentum in Kitely and attract others. Additionally, our second project involves organizing monthly or bimonthly tours for residents in Kitely, Open Sim, Second Life, so that we can get more people coming and shopping everywhere to see what everyone is doing and sharing with each other. Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Kriata. I'm Shannon Brodin, known in virtual worlds as Kriata Shannon. I assist VWEC with maintaining the Metaverse database. The VWEC Metaverse database is an effort to collect document and share information about educated oriented virtual world communities throughout the Metaverse. Catalogging virtual worlds is important because there's a lack of in-world tools for searching simulations and communities across various virtual worlds in the Metaverse that are vetted locations for people to visit. VWEC's goal is that the database will inspire partnerships, increase virtual world participation in educational communities, and contribute to the documentation of all the virtual worlds that are out there. Documenting virtual worlds is so important so that both current and future generations know what informational professionals as well as educators and others have accomplished with virtual worlds. Recording this information now in the present isn't so important because virtual worlds are ever changing and once a simulation disappears, it is difficult, if not impossible, to find traces of it. As already talked about today, there have been mentions made of the lack of permanence in virtual worlds. If you have a community and want to know how to contribute to our Metaverse database, there is a Google form that's available. I believe it will be in the speak easy or you can visit the VWEC website or get more information at the booth in the expo area as well. We would love to hear from you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Kriatia. And next we're going to talk about K-12, the kindergarten of the Metaverse. In my opinion, just might be Minecraft. A sandbox virtual world that we are exploring is very similar to Minecraft and it's called MindTest. Here, VWEC has a free grid, no cost to educators or children or learners. For anyone who wants to try a Minecraft-like world without any cost, K-12 teachers should certainly be aware of the creativity and the creative thinking that takes place in Minecraft and in MindTest, learning how to code, how to use your inventory, how to build. All of that is a great way to start learning about the Metaverse. Our VWEC MindTest ambassador, similar to Cooper in Kitely, is Olive Tree Lighthouse, who many of you know. And Olive Tree has helped us find space there. And we have a VWEC outpost for K-12 teachers to learn as well as bring in their students. Currently, we're meeting in MindTest to explore ways to help K-12 teachers introduce the Metaverse for teaching and learning. You can contact me later if you're interested in exploring MindTest, if you've heard of Minecraft and you've never had the opportunity to see how it works for kids and really for all age brackets. You can contact me or Olive Tree later for more information. And we'll talk about the privacy of that. There is a question about MindTest being moderated to keep predators out. Yes, we are in a very family-friendly space and we have people who do watch out for that. We also have a key chain so that someone cannot just go in without being on the list. So we're addressing privacy for K-12 while we're learning how to introduce this to educators. And the main reason we're doing that is educators do not want to purchase the program and download it if they're not even sure how they're going to use it in their classrooms. So you can see that the Virtual World's Education Consortium is making strides across the Metaverse to help both lifelong learners, like many of us, as well as the next generation of learners. But we need more Ambassadors to represent other evolving worlds. As Ellie was saying, you can't be in all of these worlds. Of course, we mentioned some of us have 15 avatars, but it's really difficult to go to all the events, to go and see the wonderful simulations as the Metaverse evolves. So we need Ambassadors in particular worlds to help navigate them and share them with others. Now this is a win-win for everyone because VWEC shares the landmarks, curates the group calendars and events, curates all the communities that are educational, and helps us all promote the best practices for teaching and learning, both now and in the future. So all of you can share your world, your work, and your communities and builds as Crayatio is showing through our databases. And there are links over at our exhibit booth, number nine, later that you can see. You can also notice our website links are growing, and the calendars for various worlds across the Metaverse are on our website, and they're growing as well. We have this OSCC conference is right there on our calendars. If you click on our VWEConsortium.org website, go to calendars, you'll see OSCC, you'll see the Dickens project, which is currently up and running. You'll see other conferences when VWBPE comes along, for example, or any of the conferences across the Metaverse, we will strive to put them on the VWEC website. So I know I've seen a couple of questions in the local chat, so we'll go and find those and we'll use, I'll speak those questions in voice so my panelists can help address them. Well the first one I think you addressed, it was from Lisa Laxton and it was, do you need more contributors of data? And you gave her your contact information and for olive trees. The next one you talked about, which was how you handle predators and a safe learning environment. And the third's really important for educators, it's how we control FERPA. And I gave a little answer for that one. I don't hold FERPA-related conversations in world. I've taught 60 classes and we focus on creativity and project construction, but the FERPA-related part of the conversation, which is usually about evaluation, grades, and the kinds of data that's controlled under those, under that law, we do in the formal course tool. Over to you Val. Yes, absolutely. Understanding how to introduce the metaverse to children while maintaining their privacy and helping families understand this is critical to the future. And personally my passion is digital citizenship, which starts really at birth, if not before birth as parents are uploading sonogram pictures. We live in a culture where privacy is very fragile. And so we want to help teachers and families understand that, learn how to be good digital citizens. But we also work with the teachers to help them understand that. So that's a really good question. And let's see if there are any other questions. And I'd like my colleagues here to be able to answer them as well as we go along. I also wanted to ask you, what you think of this project? Is it necessary that we have formed a consortium? Do you like this idea? Do you think this could help people navigate the metaverse? So not only questions, but we'd also like to hear what you think about the idea and hear your suggestions for helping connect the OpenSim communities. Well, I don't know if you saw that question, but it's from Lisa Laxton that says, are you preventing students from posting personally identifiable information, PII? That is really up to each individual teacher. Right now we're not bringing in any student without teacher supervision. So it's up to the teacher to make sure they understand, you know, that that's part of digital citizenship is that they understand that. And as we grow, we may come up with some policies where they have to actually sign up, you know, a form of what their technological use is, and that they perhaps even have a digital citizenship quiz. I worked with that with my fifth graders in a Minecraft club. They built a digital citizenship game so that they could share for younger students how to maintain their privacy, not to share anything personal online. All of that was embedded in the Minecraft game. And yes, absolutely. I see that anything that they are posting, it is essential that we help kids realize that it's their responsibility because data mining is all around us. Privacy is a huge problem for all age brackets. So very, very good topic. Identity and digital citizenship and understanding that and introducing it. And this is the perfect way to introduce it because if you're in a world that is fairly locked down and you can discuss these issues there at a young age, that's a great way to help promote digital citizenship. Other questions. And while you're thinking of your questions, I'd like to put up our contact information. All four of us are open to you contacting us later, whether it's about our databases, whether it's about the Open Sims, a contact Cooper about Kitely. Krayatya also is very active and involved in Kitely and with our databases. I'll move over to the couch area and see if anyone else has another question. Let's watch the local chat. You know, while you're waiting for questions, you know, Lisa's questions are very important. When I served on a teen grid with 800 of 13-year-old students over a two-year period, before I was permitted to do that, I had to have an investigation in the last 15 years of my life to make sure that I hadn't done any committed any crimes and especially sex crimes. And of course, they had to go into everywhere you'd lived and it was a pretty thorough little investigation and I got to pay for it. So you have to be very committed when you're an educator in these worlds because we often have to pay for those kinds of investigations. But because of that screening, I was able to work with children. Yes. And I saw in the local chat this, if voice was used, and that's another, we use Discord for our back channeling and for voice because that too can be private and we don't bump into people that we don't know. It's a great way to teach about strangers in the metaverse when we're in a small community that we can really watch and that has a key chain for those that have access. So it's, you know, so many of the kids are on all kinds of games and their parents don't even understand that they are meeting strangers. So it's important that we have the opportunity to introduce this and let them understand that it is their responsibility. The teacher and the parent won't always be with them. We need to teach them that at a very young age. Is there another question that we missed in local chat? I will point out on our website, we have an info center. We're striving to have 24-7 coverage so that people across the globe who want to understand the metaverse for education can find a real person to talk to because they all come in with different needs, different questions, different skill sets. Crayatia and Cooper are interested in doing that same thing in Kitely. So if we could have a group, a network that helps share this across grids, it would really help education in the future. So Bell, Art has asked if the teacher in MindTest does not use voice either and Art, that is correct. Yes, we don't have. Yes. Go ahead, Bell. There is no voice capability in MindTest. So we need Discord open to be able to do that. We've created a private Discord voice channel so that we can be doing that while we're learning the MindTest platform. It's important also, depending on what the curriculum is for educators, that they can learn a bit about how to use and navigate the interface before they allow the students because the first thing that every child wants to do in MindTest is build a house and wait for the zombies to come out. For years, I've been saying the metaverse is it's got a lot more potential than just slaying zombies. The world that we take them in doesn't even have the zombies and the monsters. We go into a survival mode, not a survival mode, but a creative mode, an educational mode. They can slay zombies on their own time. Eva, this is Kriyayi again. I can't remember who said it. It was way, way upstream, but there's something I really want to clarify. We've spent a lot of time talking about two particular virtual worlds, and that's because a lot of the educators that we work with happen to be there. This is for the audience. One of the biggest places we really would like more data and more input is about communities that exist outside of those two, for the database that I was talking about earlier. We really want to know about what's out there on OpenSum, what's out there on the HyperGrid. You would submit it and then behind the scenes, we look at it, we check out and find out more about the world, see if it meets the criteria of what our list is looking for, and if it does, and if it meets any of the things that I talked about earlier for lifelong learners, for education, then we list it. We really want to hear from you. You know, someone you should reach out to is at University of Hawaii at Manoa, Dr. Peter Leong. He was teaching on OSGrid, and he had asked us questions about how to support persons with disabilities, and in particular sighted students, students who cannot see, and he had all these objects that talked and announced their characteristics to give this person a more visual experience of the region. So you might want to check with him. Sure. Jotting that name down, and that's the advocating and sharing what VWEC has been doing for the last couple of years and how we're growing. We're coming up with an advocacy packet that will be very professional, that we can share both to actual, you know, higher educational institutions, K-12 schools, but also just to communities that are learning communities. We're open to lifelong learners, as we said. You do not have to be a formal educator to be a part of VWEC. Many of you build wonderful educational resources, and you are not academics or formal educators. You're welcome to join us. You know, Wisdomseeker just spoke up, and she's at the forefront of cognitive health with the Whole Brain Health Institute and the programs that they offer to help as we get older, you know, to keep cognitively crisp. Which is harder to do late in the day, by the way. I did see the question about how do you get the word out to other schools about MindTest. Well, we've moved slowly on this. We don't want to get, you know, tons and tons of teachers and students in here until we've understood the best way to introduce it to teachers. So we're moving slowly, but it is on our website, and that's what we plan to do, is use the VWEC Consortium website and then have different tabs for all the different ambassadors and what it is that they offer in particular grids. And so as we get that word out and MindTest grows and we get more volunteers, we may have to expand that, and it'll be on the website. But for now, how to get there, you can find that on the website. We're currently meeting in MindTest on Saturday mornings at 11.30 a.m. Pacific time, and people just come and explore, and either I'll be there or some of the MindTest ambassadors. Olive Tree, extremely helpful with our MindTest outpost. And if you don't mind, I'd like to also interject that this semester I'm teaching pre-service teachers, which means K-12 teachers in the making, and Val was kind enough to let me bring them into MindTest, and she shared with them her expertise. There is a lot of materials out there, and then when I, when we went and looked at the potential districts that they may work in, many of the districts offer Minecraft as an option. So them being able to get a sense of good ways to teach using virtual worlds, including MindTest and Minecraft, is a very important piece of what we're trying to do. Yes, and her students coming into MindTest was, it was, it really helped us learn how to introduce it to teachers. They were very successful. Some of them were out there like, you know, already building a boat and going out on the water and going deep down into the caves. So, you know, a lot of children are already familiar with Minecraft. It's helping the educators understand how to use it for serious learning that we want to help with. Great question about disabilities. And we just finished the VWEC student challenge in Second Life, which we may bring to other worlds as well. And we had Gentle Heron from Virtual Ability come and talk to the students about embedding better content in their builds that would help people with disabilities. And they did a wonderful job showing how important that is. So we would like to share that to other worlds across the metaverse as well. And any of my colleagues have anything else to say about the importance of learning about disabilities in virtual environments? Oh, it's hugely critically important. Absolutely. And it also, as you guys know, as you deal with your life virtually, it also helps them in real life as well. So it's a critical component for sure. Thank you, Belle. And then I just put in the chat, Beth Carver asked, do you all have YouTube contacts or is that info on your website as well? Do you want to talk about that, Belle? Sure. And I put in the local chat the link tree for VWEC. And what that link tree is, it's all of our links to YouTube and links to all our different social media. I'll drop that in again if you don't see it. We, some of us have our own YouTube channel. My own is full of all kinds of virtual world material as well. But I decided it needs to all channel into VWEC. So most of our machinima that's about education we're putting on our VWEC YouTube channel and archiving it in playlists like the student challenge that we just had. We also bring other playlists in that are important across the metaverse like the non-profit commons and all of the interviews we've been doing there. Or other people like Jan Luria in Japan who does monthly tours. And he has the Japan grid in the OS grid. We're archiving those YouTube channels because if people don't see that, they don't know what's been accomplished. Machinima is a great way to archive the metaverse. And if you have a YouTube channel, you think we should subscribe to and maybe put on our playlists. You can contact me. You see my email on the screen. And I see that it talks about Peggy doing Minecraft in school grant. When I worked in Minecraft with my students, I did a research article on using Minecraft for digital citizenship. And so I'm making a list of research on Minecraft for education. So I can try to grab that link for you as well. Well, you know, I haven't used Rattagast here and I was using MetaBolt and I was using it in both Second Life and in on the team grid because I was on both sides. As far as here, I haven't had a need on this grid to log into it, but I suppose I could. Certainly have the client. What I do is I log in and test all kinds of game designs to see what the user experience is when it's not graphical. And the question about maintaining modesty standards, we bring this up as well. We bring up all of these digital citizenship criteria. How to represent yourself in your identity online as well as historical accuracy. And Ada here has been great in sharing costumes and historical design. We partner with historical Sims. Not that we want to be the costume cops or anything like that, but it's a teachable moment to point out, you know, they didn't wear sneakers in the 16th century, you know, just those kinds of teachable moments about authenticity and accuracy across the metaverse in simulations. Exactly. It's fun when you and Bethany, I think, is right here who did one about women getting dressed in the time period of Dickens in the Victorian era. What were they wearing? How long did it take them to put all that on? It makes learning fun when you enter the historical era rather than just read about it or look at a picture. Yes, Ada is saying standards vary a lot across the world. We've run into that. There are cultural differences in what people consider appropriate behavior. And so we learn that as we go, and we have conversations about that most definitely. And we're learning that at the VWEC just, you know, behind the scenes, making sure that people are private and safe and they're being appropriate and, you know, and coming up with the best policies and procedures. Because a lot of this, even though some of us have been here over 15 years, teaching others how to do it with best practices isn't super easy. You know, we still are pioneers in the rapidly evolving virtual environments. I'm looking at the chat to see if there's any other questions that we have missed. And I am interested in, as you've been wrapping your mind around how we can better connect across the metaverse in the future, I'm hoping that you're thinking that this is a necessary goal that we strive to better organize the worlds and the communities, particularly for teaching and learning. There's a huge question. How do you obtain digital citizenship? Well, this is really important. I do many talks on this. And if you're interested in having me come and do a talk on it, it's my passion. It's very important that people understand that it's not just one thing. It's an ongoing, huge list of criteria that covers cybersecurity, privacy, your online digital footprints that you're leaving from the time you're born. Most content today is born digital. It's not born print. And so it's we live in digital culture. And we have to learn what that means. That's digital citizenship. So you don't just obtain it and get a certificate. You learn it as you go the rest of your life, but understanding that it's your responsibility as the bottom line. There are some great sites that do give kids little digital citizenship passports or badges and things like that. But it doesn't mean they're done. It doesn't mean they've achieved it. It's going to continue to change. And with data mining and now with AI, understanding best use of AI and best use, how to deal with AI, that's going to be part of digital citizenship as well. To chime in on that, Val, since you have a minute, Dr. Constance Steinkuler, who ran a MOOC on games and game design back in the day, she, her doctoral research was in the use of games and digital literacy. She ran a study on the world of Warcraft and how students communicate. And she looked at a priest's forum and just a she looked at 80 threads on how they shared information on combat and strategy and tactics. And she did a formal assessment. It's really beautiful study. And if anyone wants the slides from it, I have a version of it. I got permission from her to give a keynote on for ISTI and with a lot of stats in them. It was a wonderful quantitative study. But she noticed the students were reading 11 grades above their level. And they were so excited about the content that they just kept pursuing. And I know that's beyond digital literacy. That's also reading literacy. But she looked at all these formal ways to assess this. And she showed how model based reasoning, how all of these different pop culture and literacies, how they really strengthen learning and reinforce it. And so if anyone would like a copy of that, reach out to me and I'll be happy to share that. I'll get you a link also. Yes. And digital literacy, media literacy, all these different types of literacy are part of digital citizenship. They are part of it because, as I said, most content is born digital. Reading is totally different. Literacy is completely different than it was when many of us were growing up. And there's a lot of research on that. And so we could talk, we could do a whole program on changing literacy. I think that topic of digital citizenship and changing literacy and the metaverse being a place, the metaverse is an actual place. It's not an app. I like to say that we're not on an app here. We're in a place. And in order to understand this place and be literate, we need to understand what it means to be a good digital citizen. Did we miss any questions in chats? Anyone have anything else that they wanted to ask us? Any of us in particular? I do encourage you to check out our booth number nine and see the two databases slash directories that we have. We have a member directory of all the members who joined BWEC and then the database of all the communities and simulations across the metaverse. Thank you all. Oh, I was gonna say. Go ahead. No, no, you go ahead and finish and then I'll close the session. Okay. I just wanted to thank everyone and their input and comments are so very helpful. We really appreciate your time today. Well, I want to thank the panelists for this informative and interesting presentation. As a reminder to our audience, you will want to check out the conference dot open simulator dot org to see what's coming up on the conference schedule. You won't want to miss our next session, which is at 4 30 p.m. And it it's called using generative AI to create content for 3D immersive virtual worlds. Also check out the OSCC 23 poster expo and come to their booth. They have an amazing booth with all kinds of content in it for you. Also check out the sponsor and crowd funder booths located throughout all of the OSCC expo regions. Thank you again to our panelists and to you, the audience.