 I actually am about to be live. I'm Jay Fidel, I'm Think Tech Hawaii and I once in a while do these talk shows and today is with Nicole Lim and we are very excited about that because she is completely overqualified to do a talk show with us here on Think Tech. So we're delighted that she's coming around willing to expose herself to our questions. Welcome, Nicole. Thanks so much, Jay. I'm super excited to be here and excited to talk. Sorry. OK, well, so let's let's talk about let's talk about movers and I was going to say shock us, but I I'm sort of drawn to shakers because it has a double on time. Did you notice that it has a double on time? Doesn't it? It was very intentional, but it's actually movers and shockers. You should go with your gut. OK, whatever. So, you know, if I if I change the pronunciation during the show, you will understand, Nespa. I'll roll with it. OK, so movers and shockers is is a part of another organization. So can you give us the corporate structure? I like to really board people with corporate structures. What do you say? Awesome. Well, we are lucky to be a part of boy executive collaborative. And actually, the origins of our program are quite unique. We were born in twenty twenty during the quarantine times and a group of local business and community leaders came together to try to help the economy since tourism was was pretty much totally decimated. And so they thought, you know, how can we attract a different type of visitor, maybe a more socially responsible one that's going to stay longer than the 14 day quarantine? And also, you know, they saw that there was a lot of local kids coming home that could because they were remote working. And so thus was born movers and chakas. And we've evolved a lot since then in our in our first year, which I'm looking forward to talking about today to really focus on brain game. You know, how do we attract, integrate and retain key talent, especially returning Kamayana to come to Hawaii and really help create a more innovative, sustainable and resilient state? Very, very important. I mean, there should be lots of you and you should be doing lots of this. By the way, brain game rhymes with brain drain. Did you notice that? I did. It's like chakas and shakers and all that. So OK, I want to tell you that for a time, I was the actually the chair of the High Tech Development Corporation. It's now called the Hawaii Tech Development Corporation. And they had a program similar to this. This was in the year 2000, 2001, right about there. And there were all these local kids that had gone to the mainland, you know, to get into Silicon Valley. And they were smart. They were from the best schools in Hawaii. And they were making money in the Silicon Valley. But then it collapsed. OK, and in any event, the High Tech Development Corporation wanted to bring them back, the brain reversal and bring them back. So I'm serious. There were meetings like every few weeks and to try to, you know, cajole them back. It never worked very well because a lot of them came back and found out there was no jobs anywhere in Hawaii and technology. And that continued and got worse over the decade to follow. But the notion was the same thing. We want to reverse the brain drain. We want to keep our local talent home. We want to invite new town. We want workforce. We want human resources. That's what you're doing, isn't it? Yeah, we're, you know, building on a lot of the great work that people have done before and that people continue to try to do to make Hawaii's future brighter. And a lot of the things you touched on are exactly what we're trying to do. And I think that there is no silver bullet, right? And what we're trying to do is take the challenges and opportunities that have been created from COVID during the pandemic and really build on that. So with, you know, more remote work, there's more flexibility to choose where you want to live, not based on where you work, but where you have ties, you know, family, friend ties, cultural ties. And that gives a lot of flexibility for people to live where they where they want to be. But it's not just that, you know, we're we're trying to look at different ways that we can help Hawaii's economy and and really do that through helping to build personal relationships. We work very closely with you. Hiro and Carl Bottom has once described our program as an accelerator for interpersonal relationships. So I'm always thinking about that. Like if we can build strong ties here, then that will help attract and integrate and retain that talent. So we have two programs. So the cohort fellow program, which we're running our second cohort, starting this Sunday, really about attracting that talent, especially returning Kama'ina to come and contribute to Hawaii for 30 days and ideally longer, even if they return to the continent, they'll stay in touch with the nonprofits and businesses that they work with. Maybe returning Kama'ina will think about moving home. So we're really excited about continuing that program with a lot of exciting changes. And another program we're piloting in April and May of this year is called the Hawaii talent onboarding program. So taking the Hawaii Immersion Program, a very place based orientation that we've cultivated through the cohort program and offering that to local employers to really help integrate and retain talent that they bring from the continent. You know, unfortunately, or fortunately, sometimes we do go to the mainland for talent. And, you know, how do we bring in newcomers? How do we really make them a part of the community and have a sense of belonging, which not only, you know, makes them better at the jobs they do, but really helps enrich the community, right? And create better community members. So we're taking that same kind of program that we've created that focuses on learning, contributing and connecting and offering that to recently relocated professionals as well. Oh, I have a million questions for you. But the first one is you're having a launch on January 9th. That's only a few days away. What is it? How important is that? How will we learn more about that? How will we participate about that? And how will we know what happened there? Yeah, so we're excited about our second cohort that is launching this Sunday. We have about 20% of the cohort are actually local residents in this current rendition. And that was very intentional because we really want to build the bonds of people and erase those perceived boundaries between what makes someone a local, or returning kama'aina, or a visitor and really focus on, you know, the values of Hawaii and how do we help encourage people to contribute to Hawaii in their unique professional skill sets. So yeah, that's launching this Sunday. We postponed this cohort from October because of Delta into the excitement of Omicron as things would have it. Excitement, there's a euphemism for you. Excitement, okay. Learn to be very agile and flexible. And, you know, with our partners, with our cohort fellows, always prioritizing the safety of our participants or volunteers, the community. So we're being very flexible. So you're being very physical, though. Being very physical. Well, this first, this opening day, which is, you know, 12 hours of cultural orientation and education and getting to know their volunteer partner organizations for their 30 hour projects was intended to be in person, but we have switched to virtual. So we'll continue to make those adjustments. We're very focused on having outdoor open air events. But as everyone knows, you know, it's flexibility is the name of the game. It is now, that's for sure. You can change your mind three times in 30 days. Yeah, if only we could get a schedule from the different variants, that would be really helpful. But yeah, we're excited. It's a 30 day program that they will be on island. Many people are staying longer than that, I would say about 80% are staying two months or longer. And a lot of them are staying at our, quote unquote, Olympic Village. We have a great partnership with the Waikiki Malia by Outrigger. So the cohort fellows who wanted to stay there will be staying there. We don't provide any accommodations, but we do provide a free round trip ticket from the mainland to Hawaii. And yeah, we're really excited. You wanna think about a one-way ticket? What are you saying, Nicole? Give them a one-way ticket. Stop, stop them from leaving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a couple of people from the first cohort moved back home, actually returned in Kamayana. So anything is possible. And we're just excited to be able to bring really talented professionals together who care. And that's what we select for. We look at potential long-term contribution to Hawaii, such as their existing ties, like are they in a position to hire remote workers from Hawaii? What are their existing relationships here in Hawaii? We look at program fit. It's really important that people are interested in contributing to their communities and have demonstrated that in the past. And then we look at their fit to the 10 projects that we curated before the application process. Oh, can you talk about the 10 projects? I can. This is really getting interesting. 30 days, 10 projects. That's one project every three days, you know? Well, it's one project per team of five. So we have 10 project teams. Each one tends to have a current resident on it. So it's like intentionally mixed to have that kind of cross-pollination magic. But we're really lucky to work with 10 amazing non-profits and startups here in Hawaii. Three of them are returning from Cohort One. So we'll be working with Hawaii Foundation, with Antiviki on a regional media center. We'll be working with Chamber of Commerce for Hawaii again, with the DOE, and I think three or four Westside High Schools on STEM work-based learning projects. And we're working with the Pantry by Feeding Hawaii together, again with Janine and her amazing team, to help them expand. And this cohort, we're excited to introduce seven new partners. We tried to focus on a few sectors that we felt Hawaii was uniquely positioned to lead and could be critical to our internal sustainability. So looking at agriculture and ag tech, clean tech renewable energies, and kind of affordable housing, houselessness. So some examples of that, we're working with the Hawaii Agriculture Foundation to help create a mobile app. And we gave them an award. We gave them an award at Christmas. Well, there you go. Yeah, Denise, you have a Gucci there. Yeah, Denise Yamaguchi, who we're lucky enough to have on our board as well, will be helping them to develop a locallicious app or website to promote local producers, agriculture and fish, and other resources. We are working with North Shore Economic Vitality Partnership to help group gap-certified some of their smaller farmers. We're working with Pictard on how we can attract R&D from mainland companies to come and test their products here and help build out the innovation sector. We are working with Kamehameh Schools on a live work care building that they're looking to redevelop. So it really runs the gamut. We get to work with students. We get to work with nonprofits and startups. Actually, one startup I should mention coming out of UH is called Nimbus AI. They have this really cool cloud coverage algorithmic prediction that helps solar tech companies be more efficient. So we're excited to. Oh, very nice. Is that of engineering or mathematics? Which department? I'm not actually sure. I will have to check on that. But it's all above my head. But it's pretty exciting that you can predict clouds. Oh, that's fabulous. I remember, for example, there were some films with Oceanit that used laser to determine a database program to determine which was the optimal direction that a wind turbine should face to get the most efficient use of the wind. I was like, wow, right here in Hawaii, doing that, just your Nimbus program sounds just like that, actually. Helping another effort, another organization with technology they might never have thought of. I love when that happens, actually. But let me ask you, where's the focus here? Is it on, maybe it's on all things you mentioned, but is it on people connecting, local people with people from the mainland who spent 30 days in proximity, sort of like APCSS, one of the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies at Fort Darussi, right? There, they teach, of course, they teach from the American point of view, and they try to show these management people from Asia, often military or government people, that the US is in there for altruistic reasons. In many ways, that is the norm. And what they do is they put different representatives of different countries together in the same condo. So by the time their stint is finished, they know people they would never have met and they have lived with these people and they have spent time, your word, bonding with these people from other countries and other disciplines and so forth. So I guess bonding is an important part of what you're doing. And I guess looking into the technology for these various areas you're talking about, I know you haven't finished there or more, but for agriculture, for example, the more technology we put in agriculture, the easier it is for young people to get involved in agriculture because you have to leverage the effort, you have a better chance of successful outcome in your crop and all that. But the third thing, I haven't heard you talk that much about it, that is the entrepreneurial aspect. It sounds like you're exposing the members of the cohorts to entrepreneurs, but are you teaching them how to establish companies? Yeah, lots of great points there, Jay. So I guess starting from the top, cross-pollination and bringing different minds and perspectives together is at the core of our program. This is why we have a diversity of local residents, returning Kamayana visitors, different industries, different functions, people from all over the country, actually pretty widespread all over the country. And this is very intentional because we think that there can be interesting innovative ideas that come together. And if we are to bring everyone together and help create that shared vocabulary in a way, which is what we try to do through the culture education, we also, we have Naha Native Hawaiian Hospitality Association come in and talk about native Hawaiian values and culture and language. We're having an interesting panel with different community leaders on the challenges and opportunities as Hawaii is a melting pot. And we have Glen Furuya coming in to talk about the unique blend of Polynesian, Asian and Western influences and kind of communication and culture here in Hawaii. So our hope is that we can prepare people to be able to communicate and connect with the community and structure things in a way that allows bonding and then see what happens afterwards. So it's both a science and an art and a lot of the magic happens in a way that can't be predicted. And our role is really to kind of create that environment, foster those connections and really actually help facilitate the connections for that to happen. We've been lucky after cohort one, we had a cohort fellow Ferileo, who's the CEO of a company called NextRep, a remote call center. We connected him with D-Bed and they were able to partner to help launch the pilot for remote work. And I believe as of late last year, there was about 300 plus remote opportunities that had been created for Hawaii residents. That's not something that I can put into my strategic plan to know will happen. But if we're able to connect people together and really identify the type of people who have the resources and heart really to want to contribute, anything is possible. And our role is really to help create that space and also to bridge that gap between understanding local needs and access to kind of that national supply of talent to bring people together. So that's really the aim of the program. What about entrepreneurship? Have you encouraged the creation of companies? Have you taught them about how to create a company? We're not focused on that, like a lot of the amazing accelerators that we have in Hawaii, like Blue Startups or Elemental Accelerator, but we do actually work with the startups because the accelerators, because we want to offer the expertise that we bring in to their companies. And the hope is that we will bring in people who will potentially move here and start companies, but it's not necessarily the sole focus. And I think that there is such a robust ecosystem that there is so much that can be done by bringing smart and talented and experienced people together who have the right intentions, the right heart to contribute to the community. Yeah, I worry about the tech industry here. It meant a lot of resistance from and after the time I told you I was with the High Tech Development Corp. And since then, a lot of people came under Act 221 and a tax credit back in the first decade. When 221 failed and ended with early sunset, they left and that was a huge loss for Hawaii because these people had been working here and many of them had been trained or come from the mainland. So the big thing is whether to me the larger environment supports the notion of giving homage, giving support and encouragement to the human resources you're talking about. And that means the legislature, the governor, all the agencies and the business community. I know you have some support from the business community and I'm happy to hear there are accelerators that are functioning three or four of them you mentioned. That's great, but are you satisfied with the environment that expresses appreciation and encouragement for the members of these cohorts? Yeah, I think it's, it takes a village, right? It takes an ecosystem and we have a big challenge in front of Hawaii with a lot of smart people trying to tackle it in different ways. So from our perspective, we're a small program and we will continue to work with our partners that we're excited to learn from as well. And we as a small program get the opportunity to really test things very quickly and working with systemic level partners like New Hero and D-Bed to really see what role we can play. So it's not, there's no silver bullet, I think we've heard lots of people say that and it's gonna be all about each of us, individuals, organization, businesses, government, kind of doing our piece, right? Our piece of the puzzle and then coming together so we can see the bigger picture and collaborate together. Yeah, collaboration is everything, isn't it? Among organizations like yours, nonprofits like yours and you have to keep on trucking. You know, you can't fade, you have to keep, you know, sustainability is best met when you're sustainable. Did I say that? Yeah, I actually said that. I wanted to ask you about this possibility. Suppose you become aware now, you're Eolani and Wharton. So you have a Rolodex, okay? And you know some people in the East Coast, I mean, like even on Wall Street where you might have gone, but you decided not to. And, you know, maybe those people would be useful members of the cohort or at least of the workforce, the human resources that we would like to connect with here to build, you know, the brains, the brain game. But they're not coming. On the other hand, as you also mentioned, we have Zoom. And the COVID has taught us about Zoom and has opened new vistas about Zoom, okay? So if I give you somebody in, I don't know, let's say Manhattan and say, look, you know, Hawaii is a great place. We have great culture. We have a great people thing going on here. And we can really use your talent. We know you can't come, we know that. For one reason or another, who knows what it is. But we know also that you have a nice laptop and you can join us by Zoom all day long and you can consult and confer. You can even be part of a cohort theoretically, even though you're not physically here and you can be within our embrace. Are you doing that? Have you thought about that? Will you do that in the future? I mean, that is exactly what our program is about. We do believe that that in-person foundation, though, is so important. And as I mentioned, we believe that a lot of the magic will continue to happen after the cohort, but really starting with that really strong connection to begin with. And, you know, people have continued to contribute since going back to the mainland, working with their nonprofits, you know, being connected with other organizations here in Hawaii. So it's that same mentality. I think, you know, the virtualness of the internet allows that to continue. And there's still very much a huge impact that can be made in-person, right? Being here in Hawaii, like understanding what our community is about, like understanding the land as well and, you know, like being in it, which is why, you know, we take the time to, you know, go and, you know, help restore who we lose a fish pond or, you know, work in the low-eat this time. We'll be partnering with Kaalafarm. So, you know, all of those things, experiential piece, I think, is so important that will really help people connect. So, yeah, I definitely think it enables a lot of continued contribution. And it's also very important to kind of create that foundation. Yeah, well, you know, we live in a world where it's really important to connect. And furthermore, there are lots of tools to connect. And the true is tools today that were not around 10 years ago at all. And people are aware of the tools they could or they can or they do use the tools. So I wanted to ask you one other thing, and that's this. We have a very, you know, I'm sure they talk about this at Wharton every single day. We have a very funny kind of economy going on now. You know, we've been for two years now plus, we've been delivering under the black cloud of COVID. A lot of people don't work. They don't want jobs. They resign from jobs. They can't have jobs. A lot of businesses fail. Every time you turn around, something else is failing. And, you know, there are those who feel that the economy is like an oppressor, an oppressor. You know, you can have a robust stock market, but that's not necessarily based on reality. I used to think it was. I know that I no longer think it's based on reality. But there we are, the stock market is at the very top. And, you know, locally too, there's a lot of people who are not productive as they used to be, not ambitious. They don't have a plan. It's hard to have a plan in the time of COVID. And plans are essential to business, essential. How can you build a business without a plan? And you can't make a plan if you don't know what's going to happen next month. You know, Omicron is not the last variant. Always have to remember that the thing mutates while you watch. And the more cases, the more mutations, it's so logistic. So anyway, my question to you, which is not intended to be an easy question, is how can you have all this optimism about putting people together and making a robust, you know, state of newly revitalized, vitalized, you know, kids and human resources to create a great economy when the economy is under a black cloud and it's uncertain. And you don't know how sustainable it will be. How do you deal with that? I think there are always opportunities with big challenges. And this program is an example of that, right? An innovation born out of a big challenge. And all the things you mentioned are very daunting. And I also know that we have to try, right? We might fail many, many times, but it's important that we try and continue to innovate. And so that's what keeps me optimistic because I think that there's a lot of people with great skills and a lot of heart. And I firmly believe that we can bring them together and we'll be in a better place than if we don't try for sure. You know, you described an ecosystem which is admirable and I've seen many parts of that ecosystem and I agree with you that it is admirable. People coming together and doing things for the benefit of the community. You mean, Hawaii does have that. We do have your part of that. And admiration goes to you. But the question is, where is it going? Sustainability, but we need, actually I'm gonna tell you something Nicole, we need more than sustainability. We need growth. We need expansion. We need it to be bigger and better every time you look. It should thrill you and excite you every time you look. Are we going there? I sure hope so. And I hope to be a part of it, you know? Cohort by cohort, day by day, person by person. And that's how we're gonna make an impact. We're gonna find needle movers who can make exponential impact. So yeah, I remain optimistic. How will you know, what are the metrics? What are the experiences? What's the feedback that will make you know that you have been successful in these efforts? That you have taken it where you wanted to, that you have achieved the mission at least in substantial part. How will you know? Well, we gather lots of data, lots of survey data and try to quantify these things. And that's why we work with you, Hero and D-Bed, trying to measure over time. But a deeper kind of heart answer is, are we bringing people together and is the product of that bringing together good for the state? Are we having a positive impact on economic growth, on bringing families back together? There's a lot of different ways to measure KPI. So there's a lot of different ways to measure impact. And I think that we're very focused on measuring all those pieces. But at the end of the day, like are we making a positive impact on Hawaii? And if we can answer that in all the different ways, qualitative and quantitatively, I think that's the key. And that means we keep on going, we keep on trying, we keep on innovating, we keep on learning. And marching towards growth and expansion and all those amazing things you mentioned while keeping people at the center of that mission. Yeah, well, it's about leadership. And certainly, the ecosystem you described has plenty of leadership, plenty of admirable people. But you also need leadership in government. I mentioned before, there are those who feel the government has not done enough, or they put it this way. In our tumultuous democracy, which is not only tumultuous in Washington, it's tumultuous here too. You know, it's hard to get a handle on a given value and initiative. What happens is they turn over. You got new elections, new people in office, new people appointed and so forth. So my last question to you, which is not intended to be easy, is it? I wouldn't expect anything last day. Thank you. What is your message to the government of Hawaii? All of the elected officials, all of your appointed officials, all the bureaucrats, all the people who work for government. And I have something to say about the way government operates and the way it engages with you and your cohorts. What message would you like to leave for them, Nicole? Yeah, I mean, we actually try to work very closely with government. And I do believe that the key is public-private partnerships. You know, there is kind of the scale and heft that the government has and reach, which I think is so important. And, you know, the private sector has more agility, right? Like, we can move much more quickly because we're smaller. We can test and learn much faster. And so I believe that the secret to move forward is that public-private partnership that we work together, collaborate, are able to each do what we do well and move together that way. So, yeah, no scathing words, unfortunately, Jay. Oh, no, I'm not seeking that. Just positive advice to them. The session is about to start. Unfortunately, it's probably not gonna be a physical session. But, you know, I'm just seeking your advice to them about what the priorities should be, where this fits. Yeah, I think this should be a key priority. And we're really lucky to work with D-Bed, have spoken a lot with different senators and representatives as well. And I know that there's just a lot of interest in that public-private partnership and being able to help fund and sponsor initiatives like ours that try to move very quickly, right? And agilely so that, and with intention, I should say, so that we can take it to a higher, more-scaled level together with the government and other large organizations. So I think it's really exciting. You know, I like to be this kind of scrappy, smaller program, but also get to work with, you know, the government and large organizations and businesses to really make as big of an impact that we can together for our state. That's great, Nicole. I only have one last question, which I cannot resist. This is your very last question, Day. Yeah, you are. That's the way it goes. And we're over time too, but hey, that's the way it goes. I can really relate to what you're doing, but scrappy nonprofits is very important. And, you know, they do a lot in the community. So my last question is movers and shakers, where did that come from? And what role did you have in establishing that name? That came from the board, came up with that, and I actually came on afterwards. So the reason I got involved was actually part of some of the initial public backlash, local backlash we had against the program. So I found out about the program through a main line of acquaintance and was viscerally upset about it, you know, thinking like, why are we bringing outsiders in during COVID? Drive my rent up, destroyed the Loha spirit. And I had just been traveling for five years as an outsider in other global communities. And so that cognitive dissonance was so strong within me that I wrote an op-ed article in the Star Advertiser, kind of exactly what I just said, talked about those kind of initial resistance to the program and literally being viscerally upset about it, and also reflected though on that feeling, you know, that anti-outsider feeling being so innate, so kind of that us first them tribal mentality. And we have to acknowledge those feelings and we also have to ask ourselves, you know, how do we welcome newcomers? Like, how is this, this is not a zero sum game, you know, like even if we emotionally want to shut everyone else out, that's actually not beneficial for us. So, you know, being able to acknowledge those emotions and feelings and then, you know, think about how do we hold everyone accountable to the community? So in a twist of fate and a very ironic and fortuitous one for me, a few of the founding board members reached out to see if I would like to run the program. And I was very surprised, but once I found out, you know, how dedicated the business and community leaders were behind this program, it felt like a dream job for me, you know, like being able to come home as a return in Kama'aina to take all those privileged experiences on the mainland, both in education and career, and apply that here to Hawaii and in a very entrepreneurial way and working in an ecosystem, that's my dream job. So I continue to do it and I'm excited about it. It shows, it shows, but, you know, also I just want to mention as we go off the air here that, you know, finding cognitive dissonance actually can be beneficial. You heard it here. I'm thinking with Nicole Lim of Movers and Shockers. Thank you so much, Nicole. Thank you so much, Jay. Thank you for having me. Aloha.