 This Celtics Talk podcast is presented by 24autogroup.com, 11 locations across New England. What's up, everybody? Welcome into the off day edition of the Celtics Talk podcast. A rare two day break. It feels like something's just had a big long all-star break. We have two days off, but looking ahead to March, there is not a lot of breaks in the calendar, so we'll take it. We'll take this opportunity to downshift earlier this week. I had a chance to catch up with Xavier Tillman, talk about adjusting to the new Celtics organization, and being patient with waiting for his opportunity to get out there and show what he can do on the court. Right before that, Abby got a chance to sit down with Drew Holiday and talk about defense and Derek White and a bunch of fun stuff. So we're bringing you both those interviews today as part of the pod. Also, we'll get into a little newsy stuff through holidays and the headlines today for reportedly being invited to join the US national team when they get ready for Harris over the summer and be part of that group, a select group of 12 players, but Drew has the history of winning gold with that group, and I know that they've wanted him there for a while. So let's get right into our chats. Let's start with my talk with Xavier Tillman. All right, Dave, I got a bunch of off-the-court stuff, but I want to start on the court. I noticed you working on the three-point shot after practice. It feels like every big man in the league eventually has to gravitate out there. Like, how much of a focus is that for you? Do you see yourself? I think about Al, not a big three-point shooter running first came into the league. Can you see it growing as part of your game? Absolutely. I mean, that's just the way the league is trending. This past summer, I spent a lot of time on my threes. I mean, I was getting up thousands and thousands of shots, especially from movement threes, stationary threes this summer. So that's where the league is trending. So unless you're a big who can just jump over the rim easy, you need to be able to shoot the three-ball. So tell me about it. Most guys get traded mid-season. It's like you're scrambling to get here, get thrown into it. You were able to kind of absorb a little bit. What did you learn during that process and what did you take away from getting to watch it first? Yeah, I kind of started to learn the culture, started to learn the guys and how they like to operate, what they're most comfortable doing. I learned how our offense likes to flow and how we like to get into our actions and the players we like to go through. Defensively, I'm learning a lot of, you know, key concepts that the coaching staff has and how we like to guard and stuff like that. Yeah, it was this first couple weeks here has been really good for me to just be able to learn and kind of sit back and understand, you know, what we're trying to do, what it takes to do what we're trying to do and how to do it each and every day. Other guys that have pulled you aside, grabbed you, said like, let me help you, let me put you on the right path here. What's up online? I mean, everybody's been great. Yeah, everybody's been great, you know, from Peyton to, you know, Luke to, you know, Al, you know, everybody's been great. Tell me what that's like, Al in particular. I was talking to Brad Stevens right off the trade deadline. I said, defensively, you guys are very similar to me, right? Like below the rim guys, but like the way you can defend the versatility, how much can you learn from being around Al and especially watching what he does now at his age? The thing that I personally, self-esteem, want to learn from Al is longevity, what it takes to be in this league that long. You know, a big thing that he always talks about is being in the weight room and keeping and making sure that you're also eating the right foods and that way you're not putting extra weight on your joints in your knees and stuff like that. But just learning from him, you know, I want to play for a long time as well. So that's me, selfishly. And then on the court for us right now, a big thing that Al has shown me is just being able to use my voice, you know, like, especially like if you know what you're doing out there, you know, it'd be great for you to help the guys, you know, see what you're seeing. So did that come naturally for you? Are you normally a vocal guy? Oh, I'm normally a vocal guy for sure. Okay, so tell me the personal side of it. You're traded mid-season, you've got a family, three kids? Three kids, yeah. What's that like? Like how, like, I mean, you got to tell your kids, all right, we're going up to Boston? Like, how does that work? Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy for sure. I had planned my wife's birthday on trade deadline. We had a birthday, her day was the day we got traded the day before. We had a whole birthday thing planned out. We were still able to do it, but it was like, man, like, this is crazy. And the kids, you know, they're adjusting, they finally got here yesterday, so I'm excited. Now it's just trying to get them comfortable with the people and getting them comfortable with school and getting comfortable with their routines and stuff like that. So they're all settled in, got my dog here too, so that's good. Oh man, what kind of dog you got? An English bulldog. Okay. So what was that like? I mean, that's got to be jarring, too, looking at your Instagram and saw all your family. Like, what was it like having to be away from them and as you're adjusting? It was awful. It was awful. Because I'm, like I said, I'm a real family man. And what I mean by that is like, I call them every day, maybe three times a day. So just to check in on them. So for me, you know, not just being there with them, like, I could see that my son was feeling it and my daughters were feeling it and my wife is feeling it like, dang, like, it's just hard not to be together. And it was hard for me to like, fully be present here because I was thinking about them and how they're doing. So now that they're here, it feels really good. Now that I know, okay, that they're good. Now it's just about getting them adjusted. And like I said, finding their routines and their rhythm and the people that they want to hang around stuff. Do your kids know the opportunity here with how good this team is and championship all that? Absolutely not. My kids are seven, four and almost two. They just know that he plays basketball. That's it. They don't know about the championship or nothing like that. Do you get them some Celtic swag? Yeah, my daughter, as soon as they start printing the 26 jersey, my oldest daughter started rocking the 26 jersey for sure. Tell me about picking a jersey number because it's difficult here. Very. How did you pick it and any significance with that? Very, very difficult first and foremost. And I got the list. I was like, ew, these numbers, available numbers are not basketball numbers. But my dad's birthday is March 26. So it makes him and then my grandma's birthday is also on the 26 as well. Again, it's hard to find numbers that line up with people with things that are significant to people. So at least you got there. Almost like once in this video. Everyone who has the first name that starts with the letter X is invariably called X-man or whatever. Do you have any other nicknames or anything? What do you call you? X. It really is X. That's it. And your Twitter handle is on Instagram, I believe, is rookie dunker? Twitter rookie dunker, yeah. Where did that come from? Me and my boy, his name is Christian Rodriguez. He was my point guard from like fifth grade up until 10th grade. So when Twitter came out about eighth, ninth, not, we got on Twitter at least around eighth, ninth grade. His was a cis king and I had just started dunking. So mine, mine was rookie dunker. So people are like, yo, you know you can change that. I'm like, it's just me now. That's my story. I'm like, I'm not changing it. It threw me for a loop. I said like, I mean, now you could be experienced dunker, moderate dunker, day to day dunker. Leave me through some of these tattoos. I heard you had redemption and what do you got? This is my newest tattoo. I'm going to do my own thing. This is from the newest Spider-Man movie. It's the Spider-verse. I love it. Since I've been in the NBA, I love cards. I love playing cards. So we play cards on the planes. I got a card tattoo and also those spades. Also those spades. I got Ayanna on the side tattooed on my, on my interior. Um, I have, uh, I've got a lion here. Um, well, my family's my wife, my wife, Tamiya. Uh, Ayanna Tillman. That's my oldest daughter, Zebra Tillman, my son and Leilani Tillman. Um, love yours. J. Colesong that I really, really appreciate because it just helps me stay grounded and helps me just live in the moment and just be grateful for everything that I have versus wanting, you know, future things, just, you know. Um, where did that appreciation come from? You seem very, like, you're very down to earth. You're more grounded than I guess I would say most NBA players. Probably just my family in general. Like I, I honestly understand like they are what matters most because I feel like whenever I try to be, you know, big headed and stuff like that in basketball, always bit me in the butt. So it's like, all right, let me just be, you know, to my family and, and put that at the forefront and. All right, let's wrap up with a couple more basketball questions. What was it like going up against Jason and Jalen and the Celtic before this? Like, what was it like being on the other side? Um, every time we played against them. So first of all, my whole career, I think I played, um, eight times, nine times, uh, never beat them. Never beat them. A couple of times at home, we got close. Never beat them. Uh, what else? We would come into the, it would always be a big game too. Always a big game. And, and their fans, Boston fans travel, you know, so in Memphis, you know, we'd be half and half and it didn't make any sense to me how the Boston fans got to Memphis. Um, yeah, they're just, they're a team that, that was always winning. I felt like ever since they came into the league, like they're always in the playoffs and they're always making a deep run in the playoffs. So, um, that was always cool to see from afar. And then, you know, once I got here, I want to learn like what it takes to consistently be there. Like, what are they doing on a day to day level? And so this has been great. Last thing, I think there's four back to backs remaining. They're going to be able to rest guys at points. Like, what do they tell you about staying ready for your opportunity and like, how do you, how can you help them along the way here? Just being a professional, making sure that I'm showing up on time, you know, working out as hard as I can, making sure I'm eating the right things and, and treating my body right, getting proper rest so that I'm ready for when those opportunities come. Not necessarily the performance base, but giving myself the best, uh, chance to be successful when those opportunities come. Um, and it's pretty, um, it's pretty easy for me to do because my whole career has been like, in the rotation, out of rotation, in the rotation, out of rotation. So for me, like, it's nothing new. You jump into the card games yet? Since you got there? Yeah. It's been going good. It's been going good. I can just see you taking your new teammates money. Oh, yeah. It's been going good. It's been going good. Thank you for your time. Absolutely. All right. Good stuff there from, from Xavier waiting patiently for his opportunity. You start looking ahead on the schedule and you see those four back to backs. That's at least eight games where you're not going to have Al Horford, uh, or Kristaps Porzingis. You just started thinking what the Celtics up so big in, in the Eastern Conference. There's going to be plenty of opportunities for the Celtics to downshift guys. And I think it's just naturally going to promote opportunity for guys, whether that's Tillman or Luc Cornette, you know, maybe Nemesh Keda. He's still got games left. So we'll see just what, what the Celtics end up doing in those instances. But I do think there's going to be chances for those guys to, to show what they can do. I think Tillman's in a tough spot. I keep comparing it a little bit to Mike Muscao last year comes in. I think they're high on the player, but you know, you're kind of getting thrust into a situation that's pretty established that layoff rotation is, I would say, fairly set. Now it's not to say that he couldn't make a push to be sort of a wild card option in that instance, but Luc Cornette's been really good. Even Nemesh Keda has been good in those minutes. I think it's a longer play here with Nemesh and with Xavier, both really, in terms of what they can be and help this team further down the road. So, but I do know that part of the reason they were excited about Xavier was how well he played in the playoffs for Memphis last season, going up against Anthony Davis at times and showing some versatility. So I don't think they'll be afraid of that. He's just going to, going to win Joe's confidence. He's got to, you know, develop chemistry with the guys. And that could be tough in the 24 remaining games that are on the schedule. And it's more important probably for him to just be around and start learning these guys in case, you know, there's a bigger role in future seasons. You know, Mascala fell into the same, same sort of problem like player who had been very good in small doses outside of Boston, comes here, helps you navigate to the finish line of the season, but just didn't have a playoff role. It's easier to see if Xavier can push that issue a little harder during his time on the floor. Let's talk about Drew Holiday, the news today, coming out that he's one of the, invited to be one of the 12 guys that will comprise Team USA at the Paris Olympics. He was vital, you remember when the Bucks won a title and then they all jumped on a plane, that would have been 2019, right? Because, or 2010, the year of 21. And they end up flying out right to the Olympics, you know, take him apart of that team too. So there's some familiarity there. This is cool for the Celtics because they're going to have multiple guys like Tatum and Drew Holiday should, you know, borrow something crazy happening here. We'll be on that team. You still got Derrick White and Jalen Brown, potentially members as well. And so there was rumors even right after Drew had joined the Celtics probably back in October about their being interest from Team USA. And he kind of downplayed it, but the mix of playmaking, the mix of defense and just having been through it and having won gold, I think is really important to that team. And it was clear that Team USA values having him around. The interesting part from a Celtics perspective is that Drew is, so let's start with this, like Drew was extension eligible starting right around April 1st. And so Brad Stevens and his agent will get a chance to sit down and talk about the long term future. And you don't make a trade like that and give up what you did without being probably ready to go to the bargaining table and pay a pretty hefty sum to keep Drew Holiday deep into the future. I think the number is going to surprise some people. Remember that, Drew has an option for next season already. I think it's 37 and a half million dollars. So even if you're asking them to take a little bit of the discount on that on the front end, maybe say, okay, get rid of that last year, but now signed, want to whisper these numbers like three years, 90 million, four years, 120 million, maybe there's some options. It sounds daunting because 30 million dollars sounds like crazy number. I think salaries are going to be out of control in the NBA. And I mean, looking for the Jaylen Browns, just signed that what amounts to 58, $57 million a year deal. That's just going to be the rate. I mean, eventually there will be a point where you'll listen back to this podcast five years from now and that'll be the mid-level. And so I think you have to pay for established players. And you also have to, this is dual track, like you got to also sign Derek White at some point, but there's probably room for both. And then you make tougher decisions about what your overall roster looks like further down the road. Now, this gets a lot easier if you win a championship this year, because now you're just in celebration mode. And you probably want to keep that entire group together next season. If you don't win a title this year, maybe there's tougher decisions about what players you're going forward with. But I know Drew is positively impacting this team that the guy's really like what he brings both defensively and, you know, as someone who is willing to sacrifice his offensive touches, and is okay with getting everybody else involved. So I do think maybe one of the bigger storylines because of how big the Celtics are up is going to be what happens with True Holiday and do they get that deal done? Does it give him a little bit more security going into the summer where, you know, let's face it, like there is injury risk and stuff. When you go to the, go to the, go to Team USA, maybe that's alleviated if you've already worked to get that long term extension in place. And gives you the freedom to just focus on playing for your, for your national team. I was interested, our friends over at Fanatic Sportsbooks, I was checking their defensive player of the year odds. Now, it's tough. We know around here, guards don't get nearly as much credit as they probably should. Celtics have, in my mind, two great guard candidates in Derrick White and True Holiday. True right now slotted seventh at plus 15,000. Pretty long odds there. Timmy and actually Chris stops for us. I guess that our behind, here's the group they're behind. Rudy Gobert, Victor Wimba-Nyama, Bam Adebayo, Chet Holmgren, Herb Jones and Anthony Davis. So like, okay, I, you know, I think that's a fair case. I think the Celtics are going to make a push here to finish probably near the top of the league in defensive rating, depending on how they, it all plays out of the finish line. I think they got a third this week. They definitely, when they want to lock in are the best defense in the NBA because no one has the ability to guard all five spots the way they do. So maybe that's going to, you know, further to occur with the way, the same way that Jason Tatum is getting held against him, that there's so much talent on the offensive side. And his question around VP, you know, maybe everyone looks at him and goes, well, Drew doesn't have to play as much of a defensive role because he's got so much talent around him. I think we know that his versatility and his ability to guard star players has, has been key for the Celtics this season. So we'll see if he makes any movement. I do think again, Celtics finish as a top three, if they were to surge and get to the top defensive spot, you got to think a little hotter. I think the one thing that's certain and is that guys like Drew Holiday and Derek White will probably end up on the all defense team. But all these guys are going to probably get some votes along the way. So very intrigued to see exactly how that that voting comes down, who lands on that all defensive team. And yeah, Drew is going to be on there, just a matter of where he gets some votes, will he gets any votes on that defensive player of the of the year award. So all this Drew Holiday conversation shifts perfectly, Abby got a chance to sit down with him on Monday at practice, talk about what it's like to be in that backcourt with Derek White. We're going to leave you with that interview. You know the drill, go like, subscribe, check us out on the YouTube page. We're back with you on the post game pod on Friday night. We'll be over at the Garden 4 of Mavericks and Luca coming to town, Golden State on Sunday. So keep it locked right here on Celtics Talk. And we leave you now with Abby catching up with Drew Holiday. All right, Drew, I pulled you over here to talk about, I'm going to say it's got to be your favorite spot on the court, the corner there. You know the season you're shooting 63% from the corner. That's what people keep on telling me. Number one in the NBA. It's not bad. That's the key to that. Shooting them. If you want to be completely honest, maybe even looking at my shot chart for my career, but I don't really, during like other seasons, I don't really take corner threes. It's usually like above the break and beyond. So yeah, this is double. This season, 11% of your shots have come from three. So this is right. And this is new for me for so many corner threes, but I guess I'm pretty good at it. Have you always felt good from the corner? Why didn't you take them earlier in your career? Just because, you know, sometimes as a point guard, like you're doing everything from the top, you're nationating from the top, you kind of rarely get to the corner at times, or as much as I do. So, but yeah, the corner is comfortable, you know, you get there, especially with guys that I'm playing with. I get wide open shots. So I guess I can't do anything but make them. The crazy thing is, though, it doesn't matter which corner you're in. You hit from basically the same at the same rate. I guess corner is corner. I guess it doesn't matter. To you. Has anything changed in your shot? I just think that I'm taking them and shooting them with confidence. I know that obviously shooting, there can be lows and shooting, especially during the season. But again, I get so many good looks from the corner that they're just falling right now. And I understand with this team, that's where those shots are coming from. But it's, I mean, arguably the best, the most efficient shot basketball right now. Yeah, there's so many weapons on our team that you have to deal with. And I guess them giving up the best shot in the game right now. To me, I'm not mad at that. Have you found, and we know that you have a bag, but have you found where you can get to your bag with this team in this offense? How much more comfortable are you in that? Yeah, I definitely think I found a balance. I know a lot of times it's, a lot of times about a balance of getting guys open, screening, offensive rebounding. But then there are times where I might have a weaker defender on me and I could take advantage of that. If that's in the post or coming out of the corner or sometimes in transition. But really just finding that balance and attacking. Eight of your top scoring games with the Celtics have come since December 20th. Has there been something that just kind of clicked? I think it's just time. Sometimes when you get time with the teammates, with the rotation, getting more comfortable in your role and what you're supposed to do. I mean just that comfortability sets in. So I guess since December I've been feeling more comfortable and gradually I can keep on doing it. At the other end, how are you feeling about the stock exchange nickname for you and D-Way? It's funny. That's funny. No, I like that one. Are you into nicknames? Oh yeah, why not? I mean, I got cookies and cream with JV and I think this might be the first time I have a nickname. But I think between me and D-Way, it's a good one. I think we feed off each other, especially defensively. The way that he defends sometimes, I'm like, I'm amazed. And I feel like on defense, maybe sometimes I've done some crazy stuff, but D-Way is amazing on defense. He says the same thing about you. I asked him the other night, are there moments for you two to just look at each other and you're like, no, no more. No one is going. I mean, I got a block last game on Jalen Brunson. I look straight at him because that's usually what D-Way does. He usually chases somebody down from coming over a screen or something like that and blocks a shot. And I did and I was like, see, I'm turning into you, bro. I can do it too. Has he kind of reignited that fire for you? I mean, I know it's always been there, but is it different playing with a guy like him? Yeah, I think that he gets me to do different things in terms of like again, coming off a screen and trying to block a shot from right off the screen or chasing somebody down and trying to block it at the rim. Things like that, I usually leave to the big. Obviously, we have like KP, we have Nemi, we have Al, we got Luke, but you know what, I could block shots at the rim too. Maybe I'm a rim protector. I think you are. I know D-White is, damn it. D for sure. So I think those are different challenges that I kind of find in the game and try to continue to do. Has this defense reached its peak? I don't think so. I think there's a lot more that we can possibly implement. And maybe you'll see it here soon. I think there's, again, we just have so many different talents and the variety of our team is kind of interchangeable. If it's too big, if it's we go small, if it's a boxing one or something crazy like that. So it would be, yeah, it's exciting to play with this team. But you're the guy who's really, I mean, typically in a lot of NBA defenses, it's that back line that's communicating that, but in this defense, that's you. Yeah. How much are you enjoying that? I've enjoyed it a lot. It's been different for me because again, I'm usually the one guard on the ball. I have to listen to the big or the guys behind me, but at first it was new and it was weird for me to kind of like just be yelling at people and telling them what to do. But now I know why my wife likes it so much. I was gonna say, I personally enjoy that. I mean, I never, I never knew. Embrace that. Yeah, I understand why. Just yelling at people. Finally, before I let you go, what, the Benny the Bull ping pong thing, how did that happen? And was that while we were in Chicago? It was in Chicago. Yeah. There's a little ping pong table set up, you know, a little mini ping pong table. I think I pretty get a ping pong, but you know, it slipped off the paddle and then hit him in the head. I mean, those are small. Those were not accidents. Good. Yeah. Accidental accidents. Did he said it? Did he challenge you? How did that come about? Yeah, it was right before, it was right after like we came out for the announcements or whatever, like they called everybody's name. I don't know why, like I caught his eye or maybe he caught mine or something, but he was like, all right, come on. I think it set the tone for the game. He hit it back. Yeah, he hit it back. I don't remember it. Okay. I don't remember. I kind of, after I hit him, I kind of like ran off. I'm done here. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I think I set the tone for the game. So there is a ping pong table upstairs, right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you play? I did more when I, when I first got here. One of our trainers in KP, I think they play quite a bit. Really? Who's the best? I do, I do everything. I saw the top spin though in the return. You saw it? I do a little bit of it. I don't know. Drew, thank you for the time.