 Okay, everyone Okay, awesome so I know I'm the one thing keeping you from lunch and I'll try to make this as useful and as practical as possible and I want to say that Being here on stage in Athens is a really big pleasure And I thank you also for taking the time and giving me your attention and I'll make sure to be good for it So I'm not gonna spend a ton of time talking about myself. You can read more online or just connect with me on social media and I'll be telling you more about what I do as we go along in the discussion But being here in this wonderful venue. It almost feels like I need to sing something But I like you too much to do that to you guys But I'd still like to test the acoustics of the whole with a simple exercise So whenever I get asked about what I do, I tell people that I help brands build Relationships with their audiences and that's a fancier way of saying I am doing marketing So I'd really love to know what all of you guys do and the way we're gonna do that is obviously I'm not gonna have time to shake everyone's hands here But I want you to think of a like one phrase or sentence. It may be I'm in marketing I'm building plugins. I'm a developer. It can be simple as that And I'm gonna count you three and I'll ask you guys to shout it out So that I can learn more about the audience over here. Obviously, I won't be able to hear anything But let's give it a go So you guys ready? One two three Okay, can we do that a bit louder at three again one two three Okay, and that's a perfect example why all of us need digital marketing and personal branding Because with the multitude of digital professionals who are most of them very capable very interesting the online space is just as crowded as we have here today and The way for you to actually get noticed isn't Shouting at your potential customer what you do, but it's being mindful about how you present yourself in public And this is what I'll try to teach you today So just a quick note at first I'll be going through this presentation at the high speed if you miss anything if you want me to repeat anything For sure ask me during the Q&A, but also in the end I have a slide where you'll be able to download the slide deck and get some additional resources around Marketing in general. So no worries if you miss anything So Whenever we start talking about branding and brand value There is usually one thing that marketers like me want to Initially talk about and that's the actual monetary value of a brand what you see on the screen here is research But you know the company inter brand So what they have is this annual global brands index that they do and they try to Put a dollar sign to any brand you have so at the top here You see Apple Microsoft Amazon and so on and so forth and these are big brands with a ton of value So Apple according to inter brand is at 482 I think Billion dollars that's billion with a B So what does that mean though? Like why would the brand be be valuable and what actually is a brand most people whenever we mention a brand They are thinking about the logo. So for Starbucks That's the two-tailed mermaid that they have but a brand is actually a lot more than that It's what they themselves say they do which according to Starbucks's website is Inspiring and nurturing the human spirit. Okay, that's a tall order Or it can be anything you think about when you think about Starbucks. It can be their over complicated way of ordering a coffee the way their Places feel when you enter them or even the Amazingly skillful ways in it which any barista can misspell your name a hundred different ways Especially if you're coming from Eastern Europe, that's like a given So a brand is really one simple thing And I think Jeff Bezos put it in the most succinct and simple way This is what people say about you when you're not in the room So take a moment and think about your own clients. What would they say about you when you're not in the room? I'm pretty sure it's gonna be positive But is it even the right way of phrasing what you do are they gonna mention the services that you want to promote yourself? Are they gonna mention the skills that you want to show off? This is why we need to be strategic about personal branding and To get through this we need to make sure that we're differentiating ourselves from everyone else online Or everyone else in our own industry or anyone else in our area if we're working locally with clients and so on Because these are the two options you have really you can either make sure you're differentiating yourself from any other digital professional out there or You have to compete by price and competing by price is a race to the bottom. You can't really you know lower Your prices as much as the next person can lower them. That's never a good play So making sure that we're differentiating ourselves is what we're trying to aim for here and To do that we need to fulfill three brand-building goals. The first one is getting people to know us Then getting them to like us and Getting them to trust us So let's take each one of these at hand So knowing what do we mean by knowing that's the marketer's favorite term brand awareness? It sounds very big and important, but really it's about Turning these guys frown upside down So this is a great ad and I'm sure especially the guys all the way in the back can't read it So I'm gonna tell you what he says. He says I don't know who you are. I don't know your company I don't know your company's product. I don't know what your company stands for I don't know your company's customers companies record companies reputation Now what was it you wanted to sell me? You can't really get to selling something your services or your product or your agencies work unless people actually know who you are so you need to pass that first hurdle in order to get there and I think that as The people of wordpress here We have a great advantage of that because getting people to know us can be done in three simple ways the first is meeting them where they're at so You want to get clients from a particular industry or from a particular area or different types of clients? Maybe you're just aiming at Small starting of direct to consumer brands. Let's say Then you need to share with them what you know You need to show them that you are good for it that you have the expertise that you know what's going on and Then you need to help them out show them that it's not Just about getting their business and getting their money It's about making sure that they're as successful as humanly possible and all of these three things is what we do when Talking on stage at the word camp event or when going to a meet-up or when Participating in slack or in different online communities in your area I've been on the receiving end of that amazing wordpress community more times than I can count because as a marketer I have the tendency to break things and I would often need to ask a friend to actually Check what did I mess up this time and how we can improve that or fix it at least? so Being there and giving away some of your knowledge is the first step of getting known and I often get people Say, okay, Vasya, but like if I give out my knowledge, why are they gonna hire me? What makes them decide to hire me rather than do it on their own isn't that like just simpler and more cost-effective and The answer is not necessarily This is Block post I wrote way back about a particular customer development technique called jobs to be done So what you do with jobs to be done is really simply talk to existing customers or potential customers to figure out How they make buying decisions and this is a big part of the research that I do for customers this blog post is According to the read time plugin that I use on my site about 20 minutes long So it's a very meaty piece where I go through every step of the process I give people the templates that I use I give them the interview script that I base my My interview zone and I share everything that I can about that process and what people need to know And even though I've shared everything there is to know about this. I Often get this type of emails. That's a screenshot of an actual Discussion with a potential client and he says thanks so much for sharing that I now see that it's a very complex process So will you help me actually do jobs to be done research for my starting company? and When you explain to people, you know, how complex your process is this is the best way for you to show them that you know your stuff and That they will be better off hiring someone than doing the work for themselves so this is how Sharing what you know can actually be a way of getting hired for a new gig rather than just getting people to you know steal your process The second step here is to not just get them to know you but to get them to like you So how do they create a preference for you? How do they decide that you are the one person out of the myriad of different digital professionals that they can hire Who's gonna do a good job? Well We can take some wisdom off of Albert Einstein here who says that it's better to be a Person of value rather than a person of success So you don't just need to be good at what you do You need to show people that you're good at it and you need to give them something of value first and There's a very simple Business case for value that I'm gonna share with you here and it goes both through the the human psychological part of it, but also the way Digital channels work nowadays and the way algorithms promote content that's valuable So if you think about it, you can think of it as a flywheel of sorts You're trying to bring more value to more people. So you create content online You share what you know you answer questions in online communities you meet people where they're at you give them some piece of advice Then this valuable content gets engagement So the more valuable your content is the more people are gonna like it comment on it share it with friends Decide to forward your newsletter Tell someone that they've heard a great podcast that you happen to author and Once that happens this engagement Gets makes that content more visible and get you get you more eyeballs So it's sort of a flywheel then once you get more eyeballs This means that you're bringing that value to more people who are gonna engage with it and so on and so forth So if you can Share what you know and give people useful information then you're good for that You are gonna get liked because you're giving them something of value And there are three different types of value that you can bring the first one is informational value so sharing what something is essentially and This is Well, I need to mention the AI for sure because like we're in this particular year of our Lord 2023 where everything's about AI so informational value is gonna be quickly eaten up by AI generated content because it's easy to answer the question what something is but You can create a lot more value by bridging informational and functional value which is telling people how to do something So this means not just telling them what in my previous example jobs to be done research is but giving them some idea about How to do that in your case it may be Optimizing a website Building out a Gutenberg blog. I don't know whatever it is you do. This can be a great connection between these two types of value and The third one that we often forget when we're talking about business and branding and you know Interactions in a business environment. It's emotional value, but it's just as important You need to show people Something that's gonna motivate them inspire them make them laugh make them smile feel good about themselves And this is just as important when we're talking about business as when we're talking about like a simple interpersonal relation with a friend or anything like that and Finally, we want to think about Building trust and trust is sort of the most important element in here because as Ziegler said if people Like you they will listen to you, but if they trust you they will actually do business with you So you need to clear each one of these three hurdles in order to get people to assign you to a new project Or sign a contract with you and so on and The way we build Trust is by simply being our best selves Seeing simply here is a bit of an understatement, right? I mean like being your best self is a pretty tall order but the reason I'm saying this is that people actually trust People who are very much like all of you in this room because according to research This is a research done by the Edelman group and they every year. They ask people Who's a trusted spokesperson and the top two like two out of the top three here are What all of you guys are a? Technical expert and I mean technical here in the broader sense of the term me as a marketer I'm also a technical expert So I know my industry and I know my work and then the third one is a person like myself So the more direct the more approachable the friendlier you can be The better you're off in earning that trust So it's not about you know putting yourself up there and making yourself seem like this big You know expert using these multi-syllable words and trying to Seem like the most, you know formal type of guy or gal It's about bridging the professional and the personal because at that intersection. There's it's where trust happens In my work with clients. Yes I give them very specific and well thought out marketing advice But I also talk with them about what runs we go on because I'm a fan of running I share a lot about my cat may be more than it's wise, but you know, she's adorable. So, you know, I Share about any other personal interest that I have a lot of my clients for example I'm very aware that I run on the NGO that the science communication and that I'm a bit of a science geek so Building all of these facets of my life. It gives them a better perspective as to who they'll be working with Because I mean come on. We don't want to work just with a very Good expert. We want to work with someone. That's fun to work with if you're gonna be working with that person on a daily basis You need someone you're gonna like and that's why you need to show off your personal side as well so Moving through each of these steps What you're trying to do is get more people to know about you then get a big percentage of those people to like you and get a Big percentage of those people to trust you and This in marketing is what we call audience development another big jargon word but I mean I'm on stage, so I need to use some of those from time to time and Whenever we're talking about big building bigger audiences people usually start thinking about hide how they can you know do a gimmick You know get viral. This is like the Holy Grail, right? or create a post that's gonna get a lot of traction on LinkedIn and Yes, these things are useful because you're building a bigger audience But you also need to think about the hierarchy of Those different people who are paying attention to you So every different type of engagement sits on a different hierarchical level So this is a very simple generic example that I've created here But say you have like me on the online membership site like a course you're building or a community you're using This is gonna be at the top of your priority list getting more people in there Even though that audience may be let's say 50 or a hundred people. That's way more useful than some of the other Channels and audience types that you're gonna see down the list Then we can think about email subscribers So if you have a newsletter if people give you their email address that means they trust you a ton So you can put that high on top of your Priority list of audience development and then when we go further down We may think of long-form content like blog posts or about creating a podcast series or a video series if You have people in your industry that you want to create content together with and Then we go through all of the social media channels that make sense. So for me LinkedIn is on a different Step than all of the other social networks because this is the place where I get the most Warm audience as they say so people who are actually ready to hear about my services and my coaching and so on And all of the other social channels they're a way for me to show off the personal side and engage with people But they're not as important so when you're thinking about building this audience for yourself make sure that you're not just focusing on the Big volume stuff, which would be social media, but make sure you focus on the things higher up in that list a Few hundred people on a newsletter. I'm gonna take that any day of the week against a Couple of hundred thousand social media followers Because the fact that you have social media followers doesn't mean necessarily that people are paying attention If they're getting your newsletter in their inbox every week now, that's the attention. I'm talking about and that I'm interested in So you're probably seen already that I'm a fan of the number three So I'm gonna talk about audience building in three different ways and that's creating content So building stuff on your own content curation Which is finding interesting content All across the web or any other channel and then sharing that with your audience and then the third one that we often don't think about but it's Actually a lot more important than the other two even that's communication. So one-on-one Conversations that don't necessarily scale even in digital channels, but they are just as important So when I'm talking about creating your own content You need to find yourself the channel and format that feels good to you and that people are actually gonna engage with So for me, for example, I feel most comfortable with Text-based content, which is why I invest the most time in creating blog posts and newsletters This is my personal preference This is what I feel comfortable when and I know that a lot of my audience is still interested in Text-based content rather than just, you know video and so on You'll know for yourself what is gonna work But if you're not necessarily comfortable standing in front of the camera Well, then don't be, you know, don't go and start creating Video content if that's not a channel or a format rather that you're not interested in Because it's gonna be very difficult to sustain that in the long run So making sure that you pick something that works for you. This is the best thing possible One great example that I love is This guy right here his Like nickname is Tank. He's Teacher of B2B English in Bulgaria and he has this Hashtag that he has created for himself called sip of English Every day he shares a really long text-based post on LinkedIn that talks about different Idioms or different ways of using the English language to your full potential in a business setting So he already has 2000 followers of this hashtag and he's a single person. He's one English teacher How many clients do you think he needs to fill up his capacity? Well, probably less than 2000. That's what I'm gonna say and This is the type of engagement you may want to be interested in he obviously feels comfortable sharing written content and not being in video So this is working from him and he has already shared a bunch of these So he's at in this screenshot is number 417 and this was like almost a year ago or something like that So by now he must have like amassed a whole new set of numbers If you are comfortable with video then do that for yourself Probably some of you know Mario Pesci from DeVrix so he Does amazing short-form videos where he talks about different Topics related to entrepreneurship a business management and so on and the cool thing about Mario's content That is that it shows that you don't really need high production value You need to have good sound on video That's the most important thing and you need to have a good idea that people are gonna be interested in So he's just sitting in his office in front of a whiteboard Talking about whatever he wants to tell you today and this is the type of content that works for him So he's found the right channel and the right format that works for him When talking about curating content the value in this comes from you being essentially a filter of sorts So if you're creating your own content This means that you're helping people find the right information at the right time without needing to read anything If you look on my website, you see that for my newsletter the value proposition There is I read 180 articles every week So you don't have to so I'm scanning all of this incoming marketing related content And I'm giving you the five or six most interesting links that I've stumbled across in the last week And this is the value that I bring it's about You know Summarizing all of these and giving you the one the few pieces you need to pay attention to Another example from the WordPress community more specifically Remkus has a great newsletter around the latest news around WordPress so I don't Necessarily read as much About WordPress and the development of the platform, but I know that when I signed up for his newsletter I'll be getting the most important news in my inbox every week And the additional value that he brings to me is that he doesn't just share a link He actually has a short summary and his own personal point of view on that same topic So curating content in that way it can take a lot of different forms Another example more in my space the marketing space is a website called marketing examples by Harry dry So what Harry does is he collects different marketing campaigns that are great examples of different approaches in marketing and This is his way of curating content So he shows me the example and tells me why it's interesting to him or why it's important so Doing that can be creating a quick weekly Podcast that summarizes news in your industry It can be sharing these links on social media with a short recap of why that piece is important It can take a lot of different forms, but you need to find your own and finally communication and this is where we sort of We marketers make everything worse Because we have made people believe that it's about broadcasting your message to the largest potential audience and that's not it The it in this sense is that you need to talk to people one-on-one So when you go out here to have lunch Speak to a new person on a one-on-one Non-scalable very personal physical level when you're online You know every week make it a rule for yourself to speak to five people that you haven't recently kept in touch with just to check What's going on with them? Maybe comment on their latest post on social media? maybe just reach out in Messenger or slack or whatever and just see what's happening. Maybe There's gonna be something interesting that comes out of that But even if there isn't it's just you being human and that's still very very important So to recap this We just need four hours a week to start and I Made sure to have that in my presentation because I know that talking about personal branding can feel very Overwhelming to people who've never done it and it can be like okay But I have my own work and then I try to look for clients and then now I need to spend more time to create content That's a big ask And you don't need a lot of time So when I say four hours, that's not a blanket statement. I've actually done the math So if you're creating your own content You'll need about two hours a week to start building a podcast or a newsletter or just have social posts Plant for the whole week ahead. Let's say This is again, you can build on top of this number in the long run if it makes sense for you But it can be just just two hours a week to start Then you want to curate content and here I'm putting one hour because You're reading on a daily basis stuff related to your industry anyway. So making sure that you remember to tag the pieces that are most interesting and then Batch process them at the end of the week to share on social media or in a newsletter or in any other channel that makes sense This is easy work because you've already done the majority of it And then the thing that doesn't scale you can't batch process communication But maybe take 10 minutes a day with your afternoon coffee or tea or Mate or whatever you can tell me afterwards what would be your beverage of choice and Talk to people Dm someone who you haven't been in contact with comment on posts or even recommend others Content make sure that you're you know a positive person to begin with and this is how you can make sure that you have everything you need to start working on your personal brand and It is more challenging than shouting at the audience what you do, but it's way more effective So to finish this off I mentioned You can either scan this or go to vote channel of a dot me slash WC EU 23 where you find the slides and also a link to my newsletter This is my way of curating content So you may find it valuable if you're interested in more in marketing And you can also see more of my work there and some additional information about what I do So thank you so much, and I'll be happy to answer any questions Thank you Vasya. That was absolutely great really enjoyed that So as as I said, we got 15 minutes now for QA if anyone would like to ask a question, please Put your hand up and someone will come to you with a microphone I'm just gonna start off with one if that's okay So you were talking really there about real human to human Marketing and marketing can often come across as slightly forced or false So how would you recommend that people come across authentically and present themselves best? So what I usually do Especially like this event is a perfect example when going down the hallway and I stop at the sponsor booth Or I sit down next to someone while having my coffee. I'm not gonna start with Hey Matt, I do great marketing. Would you need some? You know, I'm gonna go with Hey like Are you liking the event? What was the most interesting talk for you? So what do you do? What are you currently working on and then if an opportunity presents itself? I'm gonna Go go in there and I'm gonna be oh, that's really interesting By the way, I had a client that's running into the same sort of industry and this is what I do It's like marketing consulting So maybe that's something you're interested We can talk more and then we're gonna continue talking about probably me showing a photo of my cat I'm sorry or Some other topic. So if the person, you know, like if they show interest in in that then I'm gonna continue on and talk more If if they don't I'm not gonna push it at that particular moment But it has happened to me before at events where you know, I'll meet someone and we'll have just a friendly non-work related discussion at all and then a few months down the line like We're gonna connect on LinkedIn. I'm gonna shoot your message every now and then be like hey like I saw this I know it's related to what you do I'm gonna comment on the post and then maybe in a few months They're gonna say hey bossy like we're actually trying to ramp up our you know focus on the US market Could you help me out with that? So it's again, it's about building connections. All right. Awesome. I'm cat photos. Thank you Do you have any questions from the audience, please anyone want to ask a question if I see about branding Can I see any hands up anywhere? One right there, please have a mic in the middle. Thank you That's the brave person who raises their hand first. Thank you so much if if you only have Like a you only need like a handful of customers maybe like the the example you gave of the English tutor What would you what would be your approach to marketing because I don't have very much time? To do a lot of things. I mean I could probably stretch to four hours But like it's like is there any particular approach that would be different because I don't really need to get hundreds of People interested in what I do. I just need a handful of people that would be suitable to work with me Yeah, and what do you do? I'm a designer, but I I offer I Offer sort of agency quality design as a subscription service. Okay, I only I can only do so Yeah, so you're working on a retainer with people. Yeah, I get it So that's again pretty similar to to my own work. So I'm a one-woman show I I work with clients on a on a retainer basis or on a project basis And this is again the case where I would need just a few a few clients to work with at any given time What I would do is I'm gonna focus on one or maybe two channels at most where I'm gonna start doing this So this is something that may have come across differently when I speaking about the hierarchy. I By no means mean that you need to have all of these different channels in your arsenal You can focus on one or two. So if we're talking about design I would start off thinking what would be the channels where I can find people so To me still like let's say LinkedIn would be a good place to be and show off some of my work but also maybe It may be a completely different place like an online community where where People look for it for design services something like Behance for example or something like that where you can create Create longer form content and then you can use one channel to feed off the other So for example when you're putting up something on Behance You can share about it on LinkedIn and then you can also only thing you can say hey like I have this This whole portfolio and here's a quick post about Let's say a particular design trend that I'm currently seeing take up a lot of attention Here's how I've actually implemented that in the past Okay, thank you I've got another question there gentlemen in the white t-shirt I've asked a great talk really enjoyed it You said you had a hundred and fifty was it hundred fifty articles you read a week, so we don't have to yeah How do you find all of these? Did you have any sort of tools or or anything or is it I mean unfortunately Google readers no longer a thing or RSS really but any sort of tools that you use to kind of I access to them or yeah I'm really happy you mentioned RSS and I really love the fact that their assess is still not that contrary to what a lot of people are gonna say So there are two two separate tools that I may recommend in this direction The one I'm currently using is called read wise reader and Then the other one that I used to work for before but I was also a happy customer for many years It's called in a reader. I know reader one word They're both based off of RSS, but you can also add a lot of other stuff in there So for example all the newsletters that I'm subscribed to Maybe like 40% of these hundred and eighty articles that I read per week are Supplied to me through the filter of other people. So for example, if we're talking SEO, I'll leave the solace She has SEO formal. Yeah. Yeah If we're talking about marketing then maybe marketing brew is another newsletter that I'm subscribed to where I get a lot of A lot of new content that I'm interested in and when I start seeing a website that I'm Reading more often Let's say every week I get a piece off of this particular website Then I'm just gonna add it to my RSS subscription and then I'm gonna read off of that Thanks, that was a great question. Do we have any more questions from the audience, please? their hand up oh Lady over there, please Hi, and thank you for today. Thank you. I wanted to ask if it is better to have presence in more social networks and other channels and Do less quality work because there is not much time or better focus on one two Maybe three do it good there Yeah, I definitely go for the second option I would first focus on one channel or two channels at most and then I'm gonna maybe I might have Supplementary channels. So for example again with with with my own work I'm currently focused on LinkedIn and my newsletter and these are the two places where I actually pay attention I'm trying to do more. I'm I'm actively, you know participating. Let's say on LinkedIn I'm trying to make sure that I'm putting really high quality stuff out there with my newsletter. I Have at the same time Twitter that I'll most Probably use at events like this and so a bit sporadically and I also have Instagram where I'll be sharing like more personal stuff. So showing that personal side on top of the professional but these are these are less work and less less How to say I don't pay as much effort into promoting myself in there. They're just, you know for fun, if you will Yeah, we've got one question there, please Hello, Vassie and thank you very much for the speech. It was amazing So my question is regarding color psychology. So some people say that this is really important when it comes to our personal branding like You have to pick a certain color because then this way you're gonna be transmitting certain Like feelings and so so I wanted to know like your insight in this regards Like how important is this really and this is something that you really have to take into account or consider whenever you're building your Personal brand So It may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but I've as I mentioned I'm a bit of a science geek So I I've dug into the topic of of color psychology and according to Research I've read there isn't like a ton of it in there. I mean Different experiments that have been done can't really be replicated that well There isn't really a ton of information about it and also Different colors have different meanings in different cultures So it will be very hard if you're promoting yourself on an international market to actually get it right What I do know though is that whenever I'm wearing red I'm much more open to people and I'm I feel more energized So I'll maybe use color psychology in that way. So Make the brand reflect you so people would often know like you've also seen in my presentation the two colors I use are Red and yellow which are two of my favorites and they give me energy and they make me feel good So this is how I'd use them as long as you're not, you know Combining stuff that should never be combined in front of a human eye Then I think you're you're all good, of course working with the designer who can help you Elevate that brand a bit and make it look a bit more sophisticated. That's great work. I Don't necessarily because I've had that question before I don't necessarily Start off with a logo for yourself like I do have one but this is mostly because I have my own website and I Needed something to put there and this is how it came together at first. I don't think that this is as important Maybe if you want to invest in that yourself you can but that's not really like a prerequisite for building a personal brand a Set of good photos though is so this is like a piece of unsolicited advice there Thanks, great question. Do we have any more questions from the floor? They're in the middle, please Hello, hey I'm currently looking for a new job and on the job search and thinking about my own personal brand and one thing I discovered which is probably a relatively new phenomenon is that like there are like automated tools for like scanning resumes and so The personality is now not a part of the resume And I'm wondering if you have thoughts about like adding your personal brand to like a job search While still I don't know Adhering to the needs of like the AI gods out there that are actually reading these things That's that's a very interesting question. It's sort of a stroke of serendipity If you will because I used to work for a company that does a resume builder app So I can share more after I don't want to you know make this about like promoting different brands and services I can share the link and we've dug really deeply into a Resume scanning software and so on so for a resume it definitely needs to be easily readable by a machine to Get you through that initial initial sort of sort of search but also you can keep in mind that Building a reputation for yourself is also the best way to like future proof your career in general. So Whenever I've been like openly looking for a new position or for For a new client, let's say if I have additional availability. I've always relied on actually, you know spreading the world the words across my own personal network and I've Most often gotten good recommendations through that So in this case like if you're recommended for a position if they know about you and they've seen you at an event So maybe we know or they've talked with you at a networking event Maybe this is a better way to Zero in in there because in this case your resume. I wouldn't necessarily need to go through the standard application process in in that same in that same way So while Easily scannable resumes important personal branding can go a lot farther than that and having an easily scannable resume That's also nice to look at that's also very very easy to achieve nowadays. Thank God because they're running the They're running in the background making sure that it works with machines as well as humans great. Thank you for your thoughts All right, thanks for that question. We're gonna have to wrap up the QA there But I'm sure if you have any more questions for Vassie. I imagine she's quite open to networking Well, we're here so seek her out and find it but I think before we finish show another big round of applause, please Thank you. Thank you so much great Thank you